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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Otto Matic
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Posted - 2007.12.24 16:23:00 -
[241]
All the cries for nano nerfs are simply the result of:
* CCP boosting Caldari too much
* as a result, everyone flying Caldari
* all the whiney kids now crying "omg I can't hit him with my missiles"
What can you do when 50+% of the user base flies Caldari now? No wonder we are seeing whole 250 man fleets with Caracals and Drakes these days (hi Insurgency & Russian friends).
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Dirk Magnum
FinFleet
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.12.24 16:40:00 -
[242]
 Originally by: Yohanes Flame
I like this game BECAUSE all the ships even inside a class are different not the same. I like that if you spend the time and money to make a great ship it does that, it does great. Nerfing something simply to make it more like something else or using the reasoning that it should be because a different ship isn't as good is not a reason.
The huge differences between ships and the kaleidescope of different setups that can be effective is what makes this game different, and is why players like it. The steady devolution of classes into interchangeable between races is a slippery slope for the basic game mechanic that is eve.
Superbly put, this.
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Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
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Posted - 2007.12.24 16:45:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Yohanes Flame
I like this game BECAUSE all the ships even inside a class are different not the same. I like that if you spend the time and money to make a great ship it does that, it does great. Nerfing something simply to make it more like something else or using the reasoning that it should be because a different ship isn't as good is not a reason.
The huge differences between ships and the kaleidescope of different setups that can be effective is what makes this game different, and is why players like it. The steady devolution of classes into interchangeable between races is a slippery slope for the basic game mechanic that is eve.
Superbly put, this.
Got to say....
.... I agree.
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2007.12.24 16:54:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Otto Matic
All the cries for nano nerfs are simply the result of:
* CCP boosting Caldari too much
* as a result, everyone flying Caldari
* all the whiney kids now crying "omg I can't hit him with my missiles"
What can you do when 50+% of the user base flies Caldari now? No wonder we are seeing whole 250 man fleets with Caracals and Drakes these days (hi Insurgency & Russian friends).
So, it's only Caldari that can't kill them Although the prospect of a missile, not being able to catch the ship us pretty hilarious by itself, the problem is not only with Caldari. It's also with Amarr, who can't track those ships. Race that has best anti-speed tools are Minmatar. Great news for those who spent ages to specialize in other races. Minmatar Cruiser is easily taken to lvl 5, yes, as well as other Minmatar specializations.
Just look at what is going on in 0.0 besides huge blobfests. Look at Outbreak gangs, Triumvirate gangs. They are nano-gangs. Why? Those guys can chose what to fly, yet most of their gangs are nano. There should be a reason for that. Where's the diversity you fight for? Many ships are not even seriously used because of the current nano-trend. They are not good to blob, and they are not good to roam, because they can't be nano'ed. Nerfing this trend will only increase diversity, because nano will not be an automatic PvPer's choice.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.24 16:58:00 -
[245]
actually it makes perfect sense that a missile cant catch me, er us, they still use basic rocket propulsion and hence cant achieve the speeds a ships more advanced drive can
Originally by: Cecil Montague
They should change that warning on entering low sec to:
"Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
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Ephemeral Waves
The Nine Gates
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Posted - 2007.12.24 16:58:00 -
[246]
/signed.
He appears to be a moron constantly pumping features people don't care about (eve-voice) and poohpoohing features people do want (stand-alone eve-voice).
We won't even get into the carrier disaster...
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Miamoto Mataky
Gallente
Boundless Comlexion
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Posted - 2007.12.24 17:19:00 -
[247]
this:
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Remember, the fast ship zoomed way out of range no longer poses a threat.... so what's the problem? It comes in close, it dies
and this:
Originally by: Soulita
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Yohanes Flame
I like this game BECAUSE all the ships even inside a class are different not the same. I like that if you spend the time and money to make a great ship it does that, it does great. Nerfing something simply to make it more like something else or using the reasoning that it should be because a different ship isn't as good is not a reason.
The huge differences between ships and the kaleidescope of different setups that can be effective is what makes this game different, and is why players like it. The steady devolution of classes into interchangeable between races is a slippery slope for the basic game mechanic that is eve.
Superbly put, this.
Got to say....
.... I agree.
/signed twice
was just listenning to that live dev blog.. can't describe the feeling i had.. it's like they don't know what they are talking about, the lead designer and ZP...
they don't know what they are talking about, why are thay talking what they are talking and what actually needs to be donne and why it needs to be done.. their arguments are superficial and in most cases flawed..
Like a 11 year old trying to pass a scool test but he didn't open his books..
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do I need to have a sig? |
Serric
Caldari
Lords of Chaos Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.24 17:33:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Soulita
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Yohanes Flame
I like this game BECAUSE all the ships even inside a class are different not the same. I like that if you spend the time and money to make a great ship it does that, it does great. Nerfing something simply to make it more like something else or using the reasoning that it should be because a different ship isn't as good is not a reason.
The huge differences between ships and the kaleidescope of different setups that can be effective is what makes this game different, and is why players like it. The steady devolution of classes into interchangeable between races is a slippery slope for the basic game mechanic that is eve.
Superbly put, this.
Got to say....
.... I agree.
/signed
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R0ot
Eternity INC.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.12.24 17:40:00 -
[249]
Quote:
Zulupark - I'll just keep on going in here. I'm going to actually grab follow-up question "Isn't the intended role of interdictor to zoom about and drop bubbles". Yes the intended role is to drop bubbles, but it's not maybe in the intended role that they're so fast, that even with a specialized webbing ship, in the time it takes you to get a lock and activate your webifiers, even if the ship is at far end of your webbing range, that it could basically float at immense speed out of your webbing range again. That's just way too much.
Sigh, zulupark please for the love of all interdictor pilots that spent the time training for this ship and that pay somewhat 30-40 mil per interdictor (rigs and fittings included), please please please play with the actual ship in a fight larger than 10 people before you think a ship should be changed, and now with the stacking nerf (possible) coming this will screw over the interdictor class even more so.
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Great Guardian
Minmatar
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2007.12.24 17:51:00 -
[250]
Edited by: Great Guardian on 24/12/2007 17:51:18
Could any one offer a new job or different position in CCP to that guy?
Cheers,
GG
" I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Hah!
Attack ships on fire, off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams, glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
All those moments.... will |
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Mjnari
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2007.12.24 17:56:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Furos
I realize that nano fittings are becoming the standard in eve which probably wasn't CCPs goal. But simply nerfing speed is not the answer here.
Instead of nerfing speed I think a better solution is to add more counters to speed. Maybe a new mod for the heavy dictor that webs instead of scrams? Or maybe bombs that web.
This. MOAR variation, not less.
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Minmatar,
It should be like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair shooting an Uzi. |
Amarria Black
Clan Anthraxx
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Posted - 2007.12.24 18:24:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Furos
Edited by: Furos on 24/12/2007 15:39:03
Edited by: Furos on 24/12/2007 15:37:17
I realize that nano fittings are becoming the standard in eve which probably wasn't CCPs goal. But simply nerfing speed is not the answer here.
Instead of nerfing speed I think a better solution is to add more counters to speed. Maybe a new mod for the heavy dictor that webs instead of scrams? Or maybe bombs that web.
People spend billions of isk and lots of time to specialize in speed, and they should be able to do this. But players should also be able to spend equivalent time / isk and specialize in countering speed. Ships like the rapier are a good start, but are limited in their ability to counter speed.
Forcing people to play a certain way is not the answer, but allowing people to counter one specialization with another would certainly make sence to me.
This.
A series of tactics and counters which specific ships excel at, and which other ships can imitate but not duplicate. This ship goes fast, this ship kills fast ships. This other ship uses a metric f***ton of modules to emulate fast ship, but it's not even going to come close. This ship cares not that you go fast, as it's going to ewar the hell out of you simply because you exist near it, and this other ship will ignore that ewar and eat said ship for breakfast. Etc, etc.
Perhaps this is what CCP is already shooting for. If so, it's not evident from their recent design decisions. It seems they're pushing ships toward homogeny and making modules less and less effective. The end result is specialty ships that don't actually do anything unless you throw billions at them and you're lucky enough to be at the high end of the nerf cycle, and a bevy of generic ships that don't really have much of a strength at all. This works to cement the superiority of the blob, as the n+1 generic ships prevail over the n generic ships due to sheer numbers. By creating a situation where a significantly numerically inferior number of ships pop in on a hostile fleet, and the response is, "Oh s***, they've got an X!" from the defenders, you break that cycle and give smart fleets the power to destroy large fleets.
Yes, speed is out of control. Yes, speed mods need tinkered with. No, dictors are not the problem, nor do they need to be pulled up short.
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Surreptitious
Privateers
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.24 18:30:00 -
[253]
Zulu sucks and should not have that job. Merry Xmas Zulu, I hope you get the flu. 
Syrup
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Xoduse
Gallente
Beasts of Burden
YouWhat
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Posted - 2007.12.24 18:35:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Bruce Boyako
Posting in a failure thread in which the OP has ignored the devs reasoning for the nerf, seen the words 'speed nerf' and failposted.
Did you EVEN READ the OP? Have you even flown a dictor? They already nerfed dictors 25%, and the guy (zulu) wants nerf dictors further and put a stacking nerf on modules that already stack.
Get out troll.
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Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels -Valorem ([email protected]) |
Chronos VIII
Amarr
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.12.24 18:35:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Surreptitious
Zulu sucks and should not have that job. Merry Xmas Zulu, I hope you get the flu.
Syrup
And you should be banned, because we are talking about a game here ffs
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Gramobolanda
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:02:00 -
[256]
Edited by: Gramobolanda on 24/12/2007 20:04:34
/sarcasm
Thanks Zulupark for adapting my Sabre to the Speed of the Geastationari ISS Space Station so now i can dock on this safely without have to worry about crashing into it because i am to fast
/sarcasm off
Realy what is this Nerf good for? A Standard fittet Sabre without HG Snakes (wich not every Sabre Pilot is able and willing to Buy) and with no Super Expensive Polycarbon Engine Housings now is slower then a Stabber, but a Stabber providing me more Tank and more Firepower and coast about 6-8 mil is easy replaceable bcause everyone can buy a BPO of Stabber.
Sabre still are about 25-35mil of ISK for a one Bubble Drop (did not calculate the costs for a MWD and Bubblelauncher etc). So u made this ship useless THANKS A LOT I LOVE YOU FOR THIS ! REALY.....
If u whant a one use Bubble Ship make it a T1 Frig worth 200k ISK with one Hi Slot for the Bubble and everythink is ok, but a Ship like Sabre for that Price with no Tank and now no Speed (dont think about poor Amarrs they are now even more on the shaft with the dictors but they deserve it bcause they are Amarr) there is no more use in my arsenal of death.
Now would you just go out in your new formed Dictor and try to play it for 2 months on TQ and say u have a chance, if u prove me u done halfway good in it i will kiss your feets and pray for forgivness, if u find out u get killed in allmost every single bubble you drop in a half decent Fleetfight then go back to your desk and think about the nerf.
I give you also a little clue whats wrong with your fix, its not the ship... it is Pirate Implant¦s + Rigs + Hardwirings + Gangboni + Commandship links.....
Think about it.......
also Funny there is a 9 Pages long thread of your Customers that are most of them very unhappy with your change you made, and while CCP often responses to a "Help, there is Fly**** on my Monitor" Problemthread, this one gets completly ignored.
Funny Way to communicate to the customers......
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Audio Bully
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:09:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Chronos VIII
Originally by: Surreptitious
Zulu sucks and should not have that job. Merry Xmas Zulu, I hope you get the flu.
Syrup
And you should be banned, because we are talking about a game here ffs
QFT
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Great being Amarr, Minmatar, and Caldari isn't it? |
DeadDuck
Amarr
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:17:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Theo Samaritan
Adapt or die. Thats all I can say.
Well prepare to adapt then
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Synapse Archae
Amarr
Demonic Retribution
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:18:00 -
[259]
/Signed
I really dont think Zulupark knows what he's doing.
Bring back TomB?
- - - Originally by: CCP Garthagk
While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:22:00 -
[260]
I can agree that Sabre is the last nano ship that deserves nerfing. And the ship fundamentally is ok; it's speed enhancers that are overpowered, snakes, poly's, harwirings and other stuff that was mentioned 2-3 posts above.
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DARTHxFREE
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:26:00 -
[261]
Zulupark does play EvE
I saw him on test server, looked in his wreak to find 'Arbalest' torpedoo launchers
/join Cheeze & Whine Club
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Dr Slaughter
Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:26:00 -
[262]
Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 24/12/2007 20:27:08
/signed
but do individual devs, acting alone, have the authority to change game mechanics?
Do the changes require a 'change request'?
Do the 'change requests' get reviewed before coding starts by a group of senior GAME DESIGNERS (<> programmers btw)?
If it's a: change request/senior game designer review/approval/start coding type process surely we don't have anything to fear from comments like Zuluparks... he isn't on the review board is he? The game is managed like this... right?
They do unit testing too don't they?
Oh.. wait...
CCP this is not the nerf you are looking for... |
ID ReDead
Caldari
Solarflare Heavy Industries
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:27:00 -
[263]
/signed
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Hertford
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:47:00 -
[264]
So, this thread has jumped the rails, and is now on the nano/speed ship tracks instead of the interdictor speed issue tracks.
Oh well. |
Gramobolanda
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:53:00 -
[265]
dont think you can seperate Dictors nerf from Nano problem.
If u read Zulus commentars he thinking that dictors are to fast.
So when u say particular ship is to fast, u dont should look only at the ship but also at the factors that make it that fast......
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.12.24 20:53:00 -
[266]
/signed
Play the game before playing with modules and ships.
Rifters!
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.12.24 21:16:00 -
[267]
next on the nerf train
cruisers
Trashed sig, Shark was here |
Igetshotalot
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.24 21:17:00 -
[268]
/not signed Quote:
null
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L70Rogue
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Posted - 2007.12.24 21:17:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Zana Kito
Think back at the time when wcs were nerfed.. why?
Same issue now.
this
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Igetshotalot
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.12.24 21:37:00 -
[270]
Originally by: L70Rogue
Originally by: Zana Kito
Think back at the time when wcs were nerfed.. why?
Same issue now.
this
that
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