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Optique Sixth Degree Communications	Posted - 2007.12.24 06:09:00 - [211] Originally by: Hannobaal It's about a long series of statements this person has made that shows clearly that he doesn't know the first thing about how this game works coupled with the fact that he has a say in decisions on major changes to this game. It doesn't matter what the changes are. It could be anything. Having someone like him working on balancing issues, at all, is scary to anyone who enjoys this game. My issue isn't with the message, it's in how it's delivered. I can understand and recognize the concern, it's just the "sky is falling the devs are idiots" etc etc approach that I'm sick of seeing.
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.24 06:16:00 - [212] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 24/12/2007 06:05:25 Originally by: Ephemeron I am pretty sure that speed ships die nearly as often as slow ships, especially if you think in terms of isk lost per ship I am 100% sure this is false. You may be right. That's why I call on CCP to release hard data. Give us statistics to settle this issue. They have the data
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.24 06:18:00 - [213] Originally by: Goumindong Some do, some dont. Implants have no penalties. Gang mods have no penalties. 1. He said speed mods. Those aren't speed mods. 2. Bonuses from implants and gang bonuses never, ever, have stacking penalties regardless of what they are for. Quote: Mass modifications and velocity bonuses being seperate mods are not panalized agianst each other. They aren't penalized against each other not because they are separate modules but because they give bonuses to completely different attributes. You simply can't have stacking penaties between them. And that's the same for everything else out there that has stacking penalties. Quote: Imagine for a minute that there were two types of damage mod. One increased damage only and one increaed RoF only. Allready the case with rigs, and they get stacking penalties with each other and with regular modules on the same attribute only. Quote: Imagine also that they were individually as strong as the double mods we have now, 23% dmg and 19% rof[for the first mod.] Well currently this produces an Armageddon with about 1174 dps with 3 damage mods. After such a change 3 damage mods would produce a Geddon that did 1261 dps. Not much of a change. But the Geddon would be able to fit 4 damage mods for 1448 dps. And 5 damage mods for 1597 dps, and 6 damage mods for 1794 dps Now, this isnt old gank-a-geddon style, but it exemplifys the problem of two attributes boosting the same property of a ship. Ok, then explain to me how you could possibly implement stacking penaties between two modules that have effects on completely different attributes. And, if he did mean that they would implement a completely new form of stacking penalties like that (for different attributes), that does not exist in the game at the moment, why wouldn't he have explained that instead of just saying "stacking penalties"? The only possible explanation I can think of is that he was talking about afterburners and microwarpdrives (where the bonuses actually don't get stacking penalties at the moment). IF that is what he meant, then I would hope they are smart enough to only do it for microwarpdrives and leave afterburners as they are.
Gruxella Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.24 06:20:00 - [214] Originally by: Rells The fact that you make such a post is funny. It shows that you know nothing about the game or tactics within Eve. You can catch a snaked vagabond with a three ship tactic. You need an interdictor, any ship with two webs and any damage ship. How? You figure it out if you have a brain. Insults won't cut it. Quote: There are many ships in the game that counter a vagabond. A Curse, Rapier, Hugin will kill them flat out. Neither a Vagabond nor any other ship would come within about 50km of my Curse. A Falcon will jam them and render them a spectator -- ditto for the Griffin, Blackbird, Scorpion and Kitsune. Three well flown interceptors will track him down and kil lhim or force him to run away. A sniping battleship will cream the vagabond at range. A single Maulus, Arazu or Lachesis will damp them down so far they cant target thier own shoelaces. A single crucifier or anyone else with tracking disruptors will make the ship effectively not there as its guns wont be able to hit anything. What do I do with a Vaga thats jammed, damped, tracked or so on? I ignore it. It might as well be some covops spectating in my fight. If I want to catch it, I get creative. All good ideas, but that doesnt mean I can kill the vagabond. He can just run away. Sure he's countered, but he's still alive and will be back. However I want to reiterate that I am not talking about vagabonds, I'm talking about nano-ships in general. Quote: Your problem is that your thinking is shallow, reminding me of one of those big dumb guys stereotyped in mobster movies that can think of nothing but "I am bigger, me should be able to pound you." The game is more than gank and tank. It is a game heavy on tactics and SKILLS of the pilots under your command. Again you use insults. You assume that I don't use tactics because I dont fly a nano ship. Nano setups are the get out of jail free card. They don't require tactics beyond manually flying and keeping an eye on your range to target. I fit myself a nano-vexor the other day. It doesnt do much damage but I can engage whatever I want with minimal risk. This is the problem with nano setups, and I think DHB WildCat sums it up nicely, as quoted at the end of this post. Quote: You, and Zulupark, clearly know nothing about this game. You fit up your ship and think combat is F1 through F8 and that is why people own you. The difference between you and those pilots frustrating you is that they know how to play and you should still be running missions for your academy agent in 1.0 space. No one is owning me. Eve is an ever evolving game. I've learned to deal with nano ships. That doesn't mean I need to like them. Your constant trolling is only making you look bad. If you want to take this further, find me in game. Originally by: DHB WildCat ... Now make a point. You say there are ways to counter your ship speed. You are correct. Tell me how to kill it without a rapier / huginn / hyena? Speed is fine on some ships. Dictors for eample.... get in drop bubble get out. No damage their and no tank to hold anything down. Now a vaga or ishtar, of which I fly both fyi. These ships exploit speed. They utilize it to be invulnerable. Now I will exploit this until they fix it. I have never felt safer in a ship than I do in a vaga. Nothing can catch me at 9-10k. Except maybe a ceptor that has to run in a straight line to get to me, in which case I kill it with my guns 8). To be able to attack a ship without having to commit yourself is something people used to do with stabs 8). So since I am in the habit of not dying I will exploit the game as much as I can and use the unkillable ships. If I see a rapier / huginn. Ill disengage and warp off. As long as CCP is drunk and do not play the game, then Ill use this exploit to my advantage like any other smart pilot. I'll use it, but I hate it. Althoguh I really do love my Mach 8). WildCat Thank you. ---- VHI - We Haul Your Cargo For Free ---- We Miss you Red 7.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.24 06:24:00 - [215] Edited by: Goumindong on 24/12/2007 06:25:14 Edited by: Goumindong on 24/12/2007 06:24:54 Originally by: Hannobaal 1. He said speed mods. Those aren't speed mods. 2. Bonuses from implants and gang bonuses never, ever, have stacking penalties regardless of what they are for. 1. Maybe he was refering to things that modify speed? 2. Gang mod bonuses are stacked as normal attribute enhancements of any kind that are stacked. The speed bonus given by the gang mod that increase speed actually increase mwd/ab speed boost, which is not boosted by any other module or attribute in the game. Such there is no penalty accociated with it. Quote: They aren't penalized against each other not because they are separate modules but because they give bonuses to completely different attributes. You simply can't have stacking penaties between them. And that's the same for everything else out there that has stacking penalties. Yes, you are catching on now. Quote: Allready the case with rigs, and they get stacking penalties with each other and with regular modules on the same attribute only. Good, now its understood you get the concept. Now can you understand the magnitude? Quote: Ok, then explain to me how you could possibly implement stacking penaties between two modules that have effects on completely different attributes. Its quite easy, you change what the modules do.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.24 06:29:00 - [216] Originally by: Optique Originally by: Hannobaal It's about a long series of statements this person has made that shows clearly that he doesn't know the first thing about how this game works coupled with the fact that he has a say in decisions on major changes to this game. It doesn't matter what the changes are. It could be anything. Having someone like him working on balancing issues, at all, is scary to anyone who enjoys this game. My issue isn't with the message, it's in how it's delivered. I can understand and recognize the concern, it's just the "sky is falling the devs are idiots" etc etc approach that I'm sick of seeing. Not "the devs are idiots", but "this particular dev has, in my opinion, shown with several statements he has made that he doesn't belong in the position he is in because he doesn't seem to know what he is talking about". The rest I don't have a problem with. I love CCP. And up until very recently I've been impressed with them and the changes they've made to the game in the time I've spent playing this game. Take for example the so-called "nano-nerf" back in spring this year. It was excellent. The way speed mods work now is so much better, and so much more logical, than the way they were before it. The Inertial Stabilizers were bizarrely overpowered and the different bonuses for the three speed/agility low-slot modules didn't make any sense. It was fixed in a simple and elegant way.
Plaetean Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.12.24 06:30:00 - [217] Originally by: Ephemeron No more nerfing please seriously, stop chopping up the game CCP this ffs this, stop killing the game. -----
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.24 06:32:00 - [218] Quote: Ok, then explain to me how you could possibly implement stacking penaties between two modules that have effects on completely different attributes. Having some programming experience myself, I'm pretty sure EVE has 1 stacking penalty formular that applies to every possible mod marked with a "stacking" flag. It wouldn't be too hard to make separate stacking formulars for speed mods, but still quite a bit, I don't think CCP wants to work that hard. Most importantly, I don't believe in nerfing. We don't need to nerf anything. Boosting + new mods is the proper answer, that gives positive reaction instead of negative.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.24 06:39:00 - [219] Originally by: Goumindong 2. Gang mod bonuses are stacked as normal attribute enhancements of any kind that are stacked. The speed bonus given by the gang mod that increase speed actually increase mwd/ab speed boost, which is not boosted by any other module or attribute in the game. Such there is no penalty accociated with it. No, you are wrong. There are no stacking penaties for any bonuses in this game except for those that come from modules and rigs. No bonuses from implants, skills, ships, gangs or anything like that get stacking penalties, ever. Quote: Its quite easy, you change what the modules do. Yeah, except that's not what he said.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.24 06:45:00 - [220] Edited by: Hannobaal on 24/12/2007 06:45:30 Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: Ok, then explain to me how you could possibly implement stacking penaties between two modules that have effects on completely different attributes. Having some programming experience myself, I'm pretty sure EVE has 1 stacking penalty formular that applies to every possible mod marked with a "stacking" flag. It wouldn't be too hard to make separate stacking formulars for speed mods, but still quite a bit, I don't think CCP wants to work that hard. You don't seem to understand how stacking penalties work or how speed mods work in the game right now. Speed mods already have stacking penalties, and they work in the exact same way as they do for every other module type out there that has stacking penalties. What Goumindong was talking about is penalties between overdrives (modules that increase speed) and nanofibers (which reduce mass). Stacking penalties between modules that effect completely different attributes is something that doesn't exist in Eve right now, at all.
xeom Concord Fire Department	Posted - 2007.12.24 07:01:00 - [221] I haven't read all the posts in this here fine thread. But I have to say rells is a terrible poster and his ideas suck. --- -Videos- Viciously Delicious
Constance Noring	Posted - 2007.12.24 07:36:00 - [222] I love watching the bitter tears flow every time CCP removes an "I Win!" button, and the futile attempts at explaining how it's not broken because there's a 0.1% chance of dying if someone brings a specialized counter-setup (although you always fail to mention that the nerf targets would never engage such a ship in the first place). Yeah, CCP is totally ruining the game by forcing people into a situation where they stand a chance to lose their ship Go Zulupark! P.S. Paying x billion for a ship is no guarantee of invulnerability, so cut the "waah waah I payed 3bil for my sabre" crap already.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2007.12.24 07:39:00 - [223] Edited by: umop 3pisdn on 24/12/2007 07:42:56 Things that should be kept out of eve: Dictor nerfs Drone bay increases (close range frigates like AFs are already useless, you idiots) Speed nerfs, nanophoons were rediculous, nanohacs are not. Things that should be done, now, right now, take the server down and do it: Station hugging nerf. Loggoffski nerf. Local nerf. Remove it in 0.0, we'll figure the rest out, and constellation chat is a no no, it gives people too much heads up, region chat might be sweet though.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.24 07:49:00 - [224] Originally by: Hannobaal No, you are wrong. There are no stacking penaties for any bonuses in this game except for those that come from modules and rigs. No bonuses from implants, skills, ships, gangs or anything like that get stacking penalties, ever. I'm sorry, you're just flat out wrong. Gang mod bonuses are stacking penalized. Most notably resistances, and ewar strength. Quote: Yeah, except that's not what he said. Yea, except he didnt say anything except "we are looking into it"
insidion Caldari Last of the Technocracy	Posted - 2007.12.24 08:16:00 - [225] Edited by: insidion on 24/12/2007 08:23:21 Personally I'm somewhat astounded at the lack of general game knowledge on most of the devs part, let alone when it comes to communication between them. No one seems to know what's going on with anything these days, and everything just feels vague, contradictory and without direction. Why the hell is so much getting past the supposed Q+A phase? As a prime example, speed tanking and interdictors. Anyone that has ever used a dictor or flown with them knows that it takes a large amount of skills and parts to even really approach speed tanking. Usually it takes a gistii MWD and polycarbs at the very least, so a few hundred mill at the minimum for a decent dictor. Without this approach, dictors are almost literally defenseless. They completely nerf the tanking ability of these ships without any compensation, leaving them to be sitting ducks in the extreme, and yet they give interceptors a fantastic solution to allow them the 'staying power' they previously lacked to avoid being the constant sacrificial lamb. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled with the inty boost, to me it makes sense, allows them to do their job and is wonderfully balanced. Why not the same approach with another tackling style ship? I don't directly blame zulupark for anything, but ultimately it's definitely time to lay off the sauce CCP. Start focusing on real balance and long outstanding issues instead of phantom ones. Get creative with some of your solutions instead of just arbitrarily introducing MORE sinks into the game. Enough with the absurd nerfs already. Get boosting! PS This upcoming 'trinity boost patch' had better be absolutely amazing. =P
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora	Posted - 2007.12.24 08:26:00 - [226] I think original idea was that nerfing speed of dictors which already were pretty slow compared to bigger ships than their class i.e cruisers was pretty bad idea. Most of interdictors didn't go 10km/s that was only sabre. There is only few ships which can go "too" fast. Which is mostly because of polycarbon rigs, implants, ship bonus and gang bonuses combined. For example sabre has 2 lows and already much better agility/base speed than flycatcher which has only 1 low slot. That means you can make sabre go like twice as fast as flycatcher. Same thing with broadsword/onyx. Or like ishtar which is all-in-one package. It has drones for attacking from range, good tank, lots of meds for tackling and/or speed (4k/s). What we would really need is looking into stats of some ships/modules and balance them rather than nerfing some whole ship class like interdictors which was already utter cannon fodders. This whole dictor nerf was really bad, since I think most of us were left to think that it was only done because sabre went so fast so everything else should be nerfed too. It just simply does not make sense.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This Derek Knows Us	Posted - 2007.12.24 08:33:00 - [227] Originally by: Cthulhu Destroyer Originally by: d026 so what ueber skills/tactics/strategy do nano pilots use then? yeah 2 x poly + hg snakes.. hell of a masterplan dude:) Again, if you think that all that is required to "fly a nanoship" is certain fittings and implants, then you have a completely skewed view of how this game works. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 isk. Seriously, take an AGONY PVP-BASIC course if all you think of combat is F1-F8. It will open your eyes, and you might even enjoy it if you allow yourself to. Are you capable of going more than two sentences without mentioning your corp and its classes? Please, get over yourself. Save EveTV, please. Sign to ask CCP to fund EveTV!
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.12.24 08:39:00 - [228] Originally by: Pitt Bull Originally by: Rells Wow, you're clueless. You think pressing F1-F8 at an optimal range is a tactical game? Its a freakin' MMO for chists' sakes. You should try a different game, like an FPS or RTS. you obviously dont fly minmatar The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
Ephemeron Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.24 10:28:00 - [229] Originally by: Hannobaal Edited by: Hannobaal on 24/12/2007 06:45:30 Originally by: Ephemeron Quote: Ok, then explain to me how you could possibly implement stacking penaties between two modules that have effects on completely different attributes. Having some programming experience myself, I'm pretty sure EVE has 1 stacking penalty formular that applies to every possible mod marked with a "stacking" flag. It wouldn't be too hard to make separate stacking formulars for speed mods, but still quite a bit, I don't think CCP wants to work that hard. You don't seem to understand how stacking penalties work or how speed mods work in the game right now. Speed mods already have stacking penalties, and they work in the exact same way as they do for every other module type out there that has stacking penalties. What Goumindong was talking about is penalties between overdrives (modules that increase speed) and nanofibers (which reduce mass). Stacking penalties between modules that effect completely different attributes is something that doesn't exist in Eve right now, at all. Why are you attacking me on such personal level under disguise of sound arguements? You are going off on a tangent that has little to do with the topic at hand. I have always been anti-BoB if that makes a difference to you. Anyway, I am confident in my understanding of the stacking penalty. I agree that it doesn't apply to modules that modify different attribute values, such as raw speed increase and mass decrease, even tho both of them are speed mods. Devs could add such a stacking penalty as a creative approach to speed nerfing. The real issue for me is that there shouldn't be a nerf to speed. We don't need any more nerfs. And therefore we shouldn't argue how to best implement speed nerfs. We can argue whether a nerf in general is needed or not.
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.24 10:55:00 - [230] Originally by: Rells Edited by: Rells on 23/12/2007 10:43:50 Edited by: Rells on 23/12/2007 10:43:36 From a devchat log forwarded to me by a corp mate. Quote: Mindstar - But on to the question that was destined for Zulupark before he strangely disappeared from audio was the question about speed. Is it working as intended? Are ships too fast and what's up with the speed nerfof interdictors? Zulupark - There are many things up with speed. Personally and what were kinda discussing is stacking of speed mods. It's something we got to look into probably. Regarding interdictors themselves they were going really fast with proper fittings and it's ship that can bubble up huge amounts of space and it shouldn't be able to zoom in and out. Drop bubble, leave whole fleets into bubble and leave afterwards. Mindstar - Alright bubble up, indeed. On the question of the some of the other changes that are coming in the patch. Torpedoes saw massive change, they have been reduced in range and increased in damage. Is there anything happening with torpedoes? What exactly was the reasoning in particular behind the change? Zulupark - I'll just keep on going in here. I'm going to actually grab follow-up question "Isn't the intended role of interdictor to zoom about and drop bubbles". Yes the intended role is to drop bubbles, but it's not maybe in the intended role that they're so fast, that even with a specialized webbing ship, in the time it takes you to get a lock and activate your webifiers, even if the ship is at far end of your webbing range, that it could basically float at immense speed out of your webbing range again. That's just way too much. This is ... just .... OMG unbelievable. You read this and think "does this guy bloody play the game?" Zulupark wants to nerf interdictors because they zoom in and drop bubbles? That is what they are suppsed to do. What else are they going to do, drop the bubble and tank? I lost an interdictor once because I sneezed too hard in my pod once. They have the tank of a wet kleenex. Furthermore, his quote... Quote: Zulupark - ...snip... they're so fast, that even with a specialized webbing ship, in the time it takes you to get a lock and activate your webifiers, even if the ship is at far end of your webbing range, that it could basically float at immense speed out of your webbing range again. This is just patently false. There are any number of ways of catching an interdictor and if the GM will log on in his interdictor I will have my corp demonstrate a few for him. This last weekend I caught a sabre with a bunch of frigs and we have killed dozens of them in numerous methods. Im sorry for being brutal but its just sad seeing posts like this from someone working on this game. Sad and scary that they might be listened to. If the person in question doesn't have a tactical brain please don't let them anywhere near the code. This game is the most deep, tactically intensive game on the market and thoughts and musings like this will RUIN it into a blob gank and tank fest. I would highly suggest you send this guy to play the game for a few months and think about tactics and then try to come back and suggest things that actually need being done such as repairing the corp interface, repairing amarr and other hot issues. You think Ishtar's going 4km/s with just t2+ t1 and still preserving their dps is normal ? Cerberus nano-ed trades dps for speed, Huginn trades dps for speed, Rapier trades dps for speed, Vagabond trades dps for speed, Sleipnir trades dps for speed, Ishtar DOES NOT TRADE DPS FOR SPEED ! You think that is normal ? While i agree that some ships are fine as they are, there are some ships that pretty much need the nerf-bat in terms of speed. Rifter is not X-Wing CCP. Trinity model kinda sucks.
Theo Samaritan Gallente Pheonix Reborn	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:03:00 - [231] Adapt or die. Thats all I can say. That and until someone proves to me without a doubt that Zulupark does not have a main in EVE like pretty much all the other hands on devs do, I vote give the guy a mother******* break. -------------- Templars do not tank Jita so well without a steady supply of Cake.
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:09:00 - [232] Originally by: Setana Manoro Ishtar DOES NOT TRADE DPS FOR SPEED ! You think that is normal ? Uh... just stating the obvious here , ishtars can't trade dps for speed because there is no low slot damage mod for drones. Technically , a sentry drone using polycarb ishtar would do less damage than a sentry drone rigged ishtar , tho using sentry drones in a nano fit is pretty wacky.
Yohanes Flame Point-Zero SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:12:00 - [233] Edited by: Yohanes Flame on 24/12/2007 11:15:23 I like this game BECAUSE all the ships even inside a class are different not the same. I like that if you spend the time and money to make a great ship it does that, it does great. Nerfing something simply to make it more like something else or using the reasoning that it should be because a different ship isn't as good is not a reason. The huge differences between ships and the kaleidescope of different setups that can be effective is what makes this game different, and is why players like it. The steady devolution of classes into interchangeable between races is a slippery slope for the basic game mechanic that is eve. I am not getting out the tin foil just saying that the preservation of races , class, and skill set advantages should be the most guarded and meticulously approached changes in the entire game. EDIT: typo ____________________________ One Thead to rule them all - Boot.ini pre-patch thread
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.12.24 11:19:00 - [234] Originally by: Dirk Magnum ***** Albion gets their *** mez spells that don't cancel once the target gets attacked oh come the on Mythic, you ***** suck. oh wait rofl although, the way the pilgrim / curse have been nerfed, it does remind me alot like the way Shadowblades where nerfed. Zulupark = Mackey?
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.12.24 14:25:00 - [235] I have to say.. I thought the comment about ceptors was weird was odd when I listened to the Dev Blog. WTF ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.12.24 14:46:00 - [236] Edited by: Le Skunk on 24/12/2007 14:46:54 Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: DHB WildCat You say there are ways to counter your ship speed. You are correct. Tell me how to kill it without a rapier / huginn / hyena? Answer: another speed ship. Vaga vs Vaga. Nanoship vs nanoship. Gate, Lachesis, Sensor Boosters, Domination Web, 1 damage dealer equals dead vaga around 50% of the time. SKUNK
Jallem Sims Minmatar Exploring Blind	Posted - 2007.12.24 14:53:00 - [237] i going to read it all later... not that i am too lazy, but have been on about this since i heard about it about a 2weeks before the patch... some nerfs to balance yes. But as the op mentioned, while talking about the speed nerf to interdictors, This dev, showed total lack of understanding..... i listened to it at work and was just shocked at his answers.... and shocked the way he seemed not to care for the dev blog (being afk on a live dev blog?? WTF??) Its about time the devs listened to this rather intense user base.... this is not WOW, nad the beauty of this game is the depth it has gone into, its amazing that i can spend years training to be the best pilot i can, while others train to be something different totally and yet we all need each other to complete the total gaming experiance that is EVE. BTW, i fly dictors... but now, i mostly fly interceptors again, IMO they are different roles completely, but i enjoy the speed, i enjoy the thrill of risking all my expensive mods to fly stupid speeds, and spend the next months building back up, to own for a short period of time! THats what i feel like with my full set up, and i rearly get to field it. I am not into pump ten tons of lead into another ship.... to catch them is my role! But, i get shot and die!!! and it hurts! Like everyone else, GOOD TACTICS WORK! Not nerf.... I heard once, that this game was all about team playing, all about great tactics to win, be it PVE/PVP/TRADE etc. And further more... i'd like to see a solo dictor take out a BC (prob poss, who knows, cause i never have seen it) I'd like to see a dictor take out a cruiser (although i have to hold back in trying many times!! or my corp orders me to not engage!!) Anyway... just tell me a good reason for the dictor nerf and i will listen and accept... not 'they bubble large amounts of space' 'they just go too fast'.. thats just lame! and from someone that has not flown one, or not being able to use 'GOOD TACTICS'! I am pleased to read so much vocal reaction regarding the recent Dev Blog, and hope this topic stays up long enough for everyone to see... NEW AND OLD!
Furos Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.24 15:27:00 - [238] Edited by: Furos on 24/12/2007 15:37:17 I realize that nano fittings are becoming the standard in eve which probably wasn't CCPs goal. But simply nerfing speed is not the answer here. Instead of nerfing speed I think a better solution is to add more counters to speed. Maybe a new mod for the heavy dictor that webs instead of scrams? Or maybe bombs that web. People spend billions of isk and lots of time to specialize in speed, and they should be able to do this. But players should also be able to spend equivalent time / isk and specialize in countering speed. Ships like the rapier are a good start, but are limited in their ability to counter speed. Forcing people to play a certain was is not the answer, but allowing people to counter one specialization with another would certainly make sence to me.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.12.24 15:53:00 - [239] Remember, the fast ship zoomed way out of range no longer poses a threat.... so what's the problem? It comes in close, it dies Originally by: Tarminic Okay, that's it. You are on the KOS list, and you better pray that I don't have access to a locater agent.
Zana Kito Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.24 16:04:00 - [240] Think back at the time when wcs were nerfed.. why? Same issue now.

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