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Arana Tellen
Gallente The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2008.02.02 12:31:00 -
[61]
Hey the deimos is now excellent at mission running...... yeah. ---------------------------------
Oh noes! |
The Djego
Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.02 12:41:00 -
[62]
Edited by: The Djego on 02/02/2008 12:45:48
Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP!
IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!
Exactly this. The Tank of the Deimos is the Damage of this Ship. It has a small Cargohold and canŠt go like the Ishtar with Medbooster(far bigger Cargo btw) and MWD plus Dualrepper because it needs the Lows for Damage Mods and the Grid for big Blasters.
The Deimos donŠt need a cap Booster(at least since the Nos Changes) simply because it is dead before you run out of Cap or close after this. The Ship works perfectly fine as it is(one of a few Blaster Ships that work without a Cap Booster when fitted with a MWD).
Phobos actualy works way better if you want a cruiser sized Tank, Brutix also because of the bigger HP Buffer and the bigger Cargo.
Deimos is the best pure Gank Hac It donŠt need to be heavy tanked because it will fail the role of pure gank after this. When this changes go live you remove the point in picking a Deimos over a Ishtar\Brutix completly and gimping the ship, that finaly works nicely after so many changes. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
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Lews Stark
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.02.02 12:51:00 -
[63]
What the hell?
The ship had been useful for three months only and you're breaking it again? With such crappy changes?
This is just plain stupid.
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Frances Ducoir
Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.02 13:24:00 -
[64]
arazu, lachesis, deimos, ishkur, myrm, eos(+ganglinks) nerfed...
seriously... my patience is wearing thin.
after the RSD (and thus gallente recon nerf) i was like "meeeh... ok they were overpowered anyway"
then myrm + eos were nerfed too far... and now this...
why dont you just delete gallente and let us respecc as caldari / matar / amarr? i'd love to... honestly.
gallente is the short range and high damage drone + blaster race. why do we get more and more pressed into tanking roles? less drone damage, other races getting boosts to damage (torp raven - lol) ... wtf.
*snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
oniplE
Blue.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:20:00 -
[65]
The changes are just ridiculous, they dont fit the deimos nor are they positive changes.
You want to increase tank, you add a tank bonus but you remove a low slot? Hello? How exactly is that going to increase the defenses of the deimos?
Then there's the capacitor nerf. Base deimos has 1375 cap, with bonus its 1719. The new deimos has ((1375+250)*1.25)*0.75) = 1523 cap. Thats -196 cap? How is that helping?
But now that the deimos (apparently) is back on the drawing board, perhaps its time to take a look at that complete and utter useless 6th highslot?
x |
NeoTheo
Caldari Species 5618 Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:22:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Grimpak the deimos changes are pure W T F.
Grim, in another post you said "dont worry they prolly have not looked at fitting requirements yet just slot layout (i cant find it now).
but you might do well to heed your wn advice here mate, if you got the extra PG to fit Ions or NEutrons, would you bemore chiled about the change?
i think the change is ok, but the fact you loose the ability to fit neutrons is a big deal, if it gets more grid then it should be a decent change.
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:30:00 -
[67]
Originally by: NeoTheo
Originally by: Grimpak the deimos changes are pure W T F.
Grim, in another post you said "dont worry they prolly have not looked at fitting requirements yet just slot layout (i cant find it now).
but you might do well to heed your wn advice here mate, if you got the extra PG to fit Ions or NEutrons, would you bemore chiled about the change?
i think the change is ok, but the fact you loose the ability to fit neutrons is a big deal, if it gets more grid then it should be a decent change.
I did? ---
planetary interaction idea! |
NeoTheo
Caldari Species 5618 Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:33:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: NeoTheo
Originally by: Grimpak the deimos changes are pure W T F.
Grim, in another post you said "dont worry they prolly have not looked at fitting requirements yet just slot layout (i cant find it now).
but you might do well to heed your wn advice here mate, if you got the extra PG to fit Ions or NEutrons, would you bemore chiled about the change?
i think the change is ok, but the fact you loose the ability to fit neutrons is a big deal, if it gets more grid then it should be a decent change.
I did?
ROFL I THINK it was you ;) ouch might have been merin, if so i appologise ;) point stands tho, if you get more grid would you be happy?
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Spenz
Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:42:00 -
[69]
Originally by: NeoTheo ROFL I THINK it was you ;) ouch might have been merin, if so i appologise ;) point stands tho, if you get more grid would you be happy?
Dunno about him but but my answer is no. Grid has been an issue yes, but it is certainly not big enough of an issue to make it a compensating factor with regards to these new changes.
These new changes butcher the ship. They completely change it into something nobody wants.
If you have to change anything, just remove 1 high and add 1 mid. It's simply and doesn't re-invent the wheel.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
NeoTheo
Caldari Species 5618 Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:45:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Spenz
Originally by: NeoTheo ROFL I THINK it was you ;) ouch might have been merin, if so i appologise ;) point stands tho, if you get more grid would you be happy?
Dunno about him but but my answer is no. Grid has been an issue yes, but it is certainly not big enough of an issue to make it a compensating factor with regards to these new changes.
These new changes butcher the ship. They completely change it into something nobody wants.
If you have to change anything, just remove 1 high and add 1 mid. It's simply and doesn't re-invent the wheel.
I dont fly the Demo myself, so i am not commenting so to speak or saying "i am right", i am more interested as i am cross training galente from caldari and the lack of a active rep setup for the demo always bothered me (dont know why - just did), so really looking for opinions of people who fly it day in day out.
but thanks for the input dude ;)
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:46:00 -
[71]
Originally by: NeoTheo
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: NeoTheo
Originally by: Grimpak the deimos changes are pure W T F.
Grim, in another post you said "dont worry they prolly have not looked at fitting requirements yet just slot layout (i cant find it now).
but you might do well to heed your wn advice here mate, if you got the extra PG to fit Ions or NEutrons, would you bemore chiled about the change?
i think the change is ok, but the fact you loose the ability to fit neutrons is a big deal, if it gets more grid then it should be a decent change.
I did?
ROFL I THINK it was you ;) ouch might have been merin, if so i appologise ;) point stands tho, if you get more grid would you be happy?
well, as it is now, the deimos is balanced. it dishes over 500 dps (700 if you decide to slap hammer II's there) in exchange of having no tank at all.
it's a gank ship that does wonders in gang situations, but craps up if a velator sneezes at it.
I call it balanced. ---
planetary interaction idea! |
Pride NL
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:50:00 -
[72]
In this 4 year i play EVE I never bothered to post on comming changes. But after 4 years I finally started to like one specific ship, the Deimos.
Pending changes do not give me a good mood. My current setup works fine and is a very tight fit.
For me personally dropping 1 low slot would mean less dps (dropping the mag stab). BUT CCP implies to use cap injector and dual rep. It has been said before, but to make this all fit you will need to fit Electron Blasters or use rigs for PG boost. And what do Electron Blasters do? Indeed, they nerf your dps. And even with Electron Blasters and PG rigs im not sure that you will be able to fit the suggested tank.
You need plates to stay alive. Deimos isnt untouchable, but it is a high dps ship. And very agile. I like the Astarte and Eos, but these are bricks compared to the Deimos. Thats why I like the Deimos very much these days.
Also because of the current bonus you have no MWD penalty. Which in turn means I can run all mods for infinite (not including the MWD). So why would one need a cap injector. Your reps cant keep up anyway. You will be in hull before your reps even get a chance to fix your armor!
The only thing you will be boosting is the use of EW on the Deimos. As everyone will dock up and fit plates and not cap injectors with dual rep.
HAC's are all about skills. Not EVE skills, but 'person skills'. You need to know how to fly it or you die. And if you where able to fit the Deimos with dual rep and injector, it will be a mainstream ship; Everyone can use it.
In short the changes will do this: * Nerf resistance / tank * Nerf dps * add EW to the deimos
I can't imagion this is the intended goal.
And yes, if it aint broken...
Arrive. Raise Hell. Leave. |
Audrea
Veto. Academy Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.02.02 14:53:00 -
[73]
Dont touch my baby guys!
as said before DONT fix what aint broken!!!
We worked all too hard to get her right (including us on the deimos thread, lets not start again, okays? :P )
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Markus Fox
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:01:00 -
[74]
STOP WHINING!!!
test it first, then complane about it...
I LIKE WHAT YOU CCP HAVE DONE TO DEIMOS...awesom changes, now we have more wider fitting capabilities
keep good work...nice done...
and this i call not (DONT fix what aint broken!!!), i call this ENHANCEMENT...
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Nianda SeCann
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:09:00 -
[75]
I get woken up this morning by my flatmate telling me of these changes, I then fall back to sleep thinking that i must of had an unpleasant dream.
I'm now awake and reading this, thinking to myself "hey hang on, didn't we just get a slight improvement to this ship, now with resist changes I'll have to rethink my set-up, but oh hang on another change??"
so what plan does this follow, 'the build them up to knock them down plan'?
Was bearing along with these recent change ideas thinking they have some idea, but now I have to ask "what are you doing?"
I think its time that rather than just a few dev words here and there, someone from CCP explains where these ideas are leading? I know that at end of the day it is your game, but many ppls here have invested a lot of their time in eve and atm I'm (as I'm sure many others are) confused to where you guys are taking us.
Please give us a few minutes to reassure us of eve's direction and future.
fanbois flames away :)
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Kithron
Darklite inc Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:34:00 -
[76]
I like the energy boost, I like ths slot layout change. (It would be nice to keep the extra low, but that wold probably be unbalanced) But replacing the MWD bonus with a rep amount bonus = LAME!!
Darklite Inc. Diplomat |
Tadehiro
Kudzu Collective Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:03:00 -
[77]
Errrr, was there any particular reason for this change....? I hadn't noticed anything wrong with the Deimos other then the, "Bright bullseye on it because it dies comparatively easily." Which is fine IMO given it's high damage output... Cap boosters were never desireable because the hit hard and fade away tactics used for it much like a vagabond...
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:15:00 -
[78]
CCP, thanks for the needed changes to the gimped amarr and caldari railolboats.
However, if there are any ships that need lows swapped to mids, it's the caldari shield tankers, not a gallente armor tanker.
Thanks :)
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Spenz
Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:41:00 -
[79]
Originally by: NeoTheo
I dont fly the Demo myself, so i am not commenting so to speak or saying "i am right", i am more interested as i am cross training galente from caldari and the lack of a active rep setup for the demo always bothered me (dont know why - just did), so really looking for opinions of people who fly it day in day out.
(on balance i think my issue with HP setups was that plates kipper your movement speed etc, and that kinda defeats the point of a HAC, imo, why not fly a brutix?)/.
but thanks for the input dude ;)
I fly the deimos on a fairly regular basis. You have to understand that HP setups (or passive armor tanks) are the ONLY viable pvp setup you can get on a deimos if you want a tank. Because of the close range nature of the deimos, it needs HP to survive its mad dash into blaster range. An active tank is not viable for several reasons:
1. Active tanks are micro-intensive and time sensitive. If you don't turn on the module at a certain time, and if you don't regulate your repper module, you will soon find yourself out of cap, out of armor, or both. Even the slightest bit of lag makes micro-management impossible, especially when you are trying to control your drones, weapons, speed, tackling gear, transversal, and MWD against a human opponent.
2. Active tanks feed off immense amounts of cap. The deimos is already cap anemic. Adding a cap booster will only mitigate its current issues. If you add in a cap-sucking medium armor repper you will have issues. The deimos is already extremely vulnerable to neutralizers. Adding another cap-intensive system to your ship will only make you that much more vulnerable (HP passive tanks are not affected by neutralizers).
3. Reppers take grid and cpu that you just might not have. I can't even imagine a deimos that has a medium repper, a cap booster, a mwd, and a decent set of guns without resorting to rigs. Heck even with rigs can you fit neutrons with all that gear?
So as you can see, active tanking is not too great for the deimos. The slight loss of speed and agility you get with a plate is far outweighed by the benefits that you gain. When you have more HP, you have more time. When you have more time, you do more damage. That bit of time will give you more damage, and that damage in many cases will be what decides the battle in your favor.
Hope this helps.
If I had an Alt I would probably post with it... |
Poba
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:43:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP!
IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!
/signed
we just got this ship fixed not too long ago, why are you killing it again ? And the other nerfs; myrm, celest family, eos. I dont see why gal is getting beat with the nerf bat so bad
~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~ |
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Poba
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:54:00 -
[81]
If I wanted to fly mainly tank ships, I would have trained amarr. and with the upcoming amarr DPS buff it looks like amarr now have all the cookies and gal get screwed. This is completely unacceptable, gal race is completely deviating from the roll and play style its supposed to be, due to excessive nerfs and unneeded changes. Leave us along CCP I dont even care if you dont fix all the ships you have already broken for us recently if you just stop doing it to the rest of my ships.
~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~ |
Pociomundo
Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 18:46:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Markus Fox STOP WHINING!!!
test it first, then complane about it...
I LIKE WHAT YOU CCP HAVE DONE TO DEIMOS...awesom changes, now we have more wider fitting capabilities
keep good work...nice done...
and this i call not (DONT fix what aint broken!!!), i call this ENHANCEMENT...
You obiously haven't grasped how the Deimos is supposed to work in pvp.
It is written as the ultimate close range blaster, it's about diving in, kill or be killed in under a minute and then leaving.
Not about doing some damage and injecting a beefy repair tank through an extended fight. With its sisi bonus people will fit 2 repair based rigs lowering the maximum speed of the ship further, meaning it won't be able to dive into targets like before and it's currently easily kited by many ships.
The current changes make the Deimos a T2 Mission Cruiser.
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jdok
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.02.02 18:50:00 -
[83]
this change is ridiculous, why give a gank ship a rep bonus? If you are in the situation where you need a rep bonus in a deimos you are already dead, and won't have the dps to take some clown down with you. ___________________________
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Viglen
Taurus Inc
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Posted - 2008.02.02 18:56:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP!
IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!
/Signed
they keep gimping the Thorax platform, remeber the good old days when the thorax was a brand new state of the art cruiser which could control hords of drones. made me fall in love with it back then, now we lost our tank!
Ever heard of ecm drones!!
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Titos Polo
Senseless Violence
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:03:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Titos Polo on 02/02/2008 19:03:43
Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP!
IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!
/signed
CCP made me cry like a carebear
/me parks the Deimos in the hangar and turns the lights off
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Saiee Do'Arn
Nothing Personal Inc
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:31:00 -
[86]
5 low slots is not enough.
Me personnaly likes idea of capbooster, but with 5 low slots deimos is totally useless.
Moving 6th hi-slot is good idea, moving low-slot - not. |
Glassback
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:56:00 -
[87]
Adding my voice to this pointless change.
G.
BH Kharnubis > Need more people against the MC meanies |
Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Eve University
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Posted - 2008.02.02 21:22:00 -
[88]
They should just come out and say they want Gallente to be the new Amarr instead of trying to hide it. Seriously.
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Kodiak31415
An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three
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Posted - 2008.02.03 02:13:00 -
[89]
They're trying to turn the deimos into a command ship, something that it isn't. I see no reason to fly the Deimos in its current sisi configuration when the Astarte is avilable. _______________________________ Pleese exucse any seplling erorr's in tihs psot |
Aphotic Raven
Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.02.03 03:39:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 03/02/2008 03:43:31 Ok we had a discussion about the new Deimos layout on our own forum and compared notes about possible setups.
You CAN fit dual rep + cap injector + ion IIs + mwd with 2 power grid rigs
Thats ok, you get a good tank, 360 DPS with 2 reps, 2 eanms and 1 EXP 2 hardener according to EFT
You get ok gank at 450dps with drones.
Thats not bad, you only have 2k armor so you HAVE to keep repping and your cargo hold is pathetically small, especially when its full of ammo, something the sacrilege and damnation got a cargo hold buff for.
A thorax with electrons and 2 damage mods + plate (no rep, gank + plate + damage control) does more DPS than this and has more effective HP though it cannot rep itself. (around 524 DPS, very cheap, no rigs,
That pretty much sums it up... you cant rep a lot and effectively tank about 100dps more (EFT again, not real world) than a similarly setup brutix which will easily outdamage you.
So it will do pretty well at tanking most hacs for a very short amount of time, but lets compare to a zealot in real world terms, the zealot will rip a brutix up because it is faster, but it will kill a deimos (with the buff it will kill it very, very easily) simply by keeping it at range and webbing it back when chased.
Compared to a sacrilege, nanosac stays out of web range and roasts the deimos, a tanked sac will web you and keep running away, you will die because you dont have enough cap boosters and cant get closer while his missles pound you.
Cerbs suck a bit unless they can dictate range, it is hard for a cerb to outrun a deimos so the new deimos would probably win with these changes.
You will tank most battlecruisers but will you tank long enough to kill them with your tiny cargo hold?
Gank has been nerfed to hell and back, hp buffs, t2 tank becoming the norm due to price drops, t2 ammo being nerfed, Personally I think it would be cool to try and bring gank back, give Deimos an even bigger bonus to damage, make it a scary gank machine, right now its a pretty crap one
Edit: Disclaimer 1: EFT Online != EvE online Disclaimer 2: This was comparing current all gank small tank to new deimos Disclaimer 3: Jesus christ QY6 is laggy, if you dont want us to blob up, dont give us objectives (cyno jammer takedown) that need 300 people to get done.
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