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rafaman
Unsafe Flying Ops
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Posted - 2008.02.13 22:50:00 -
[211]
 Originally by: nemississ
Now this thread needs a seriouse Dev reponse(...)
So true.
What it seems to me right now is that there is a clear tendency to favor certain races over the others under the excuse of balancing things.
I would love to see more participation from the dev team or anyone that can actually participate on these foruns from CCP. Any indication that they care about our opinion on these matters would be great.
Cheers
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Gar Ddhen
Gallente
Mining Bytes Inc.
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.02.14 00:04:00 -
[212]
Been messing on SiSi
Personally, if the Deimos stays like this I will be relegating it to the hanger. It just doesnt have the grid to fit the projected active tank + blasters + cap booster.
To take a case in point, I managed:
5 Ion II, best named medium Neut
Named MWD, named medium cap booster, T2 web, T2 point
MAR II, T2 EANM, T2 explosive hardener, DC II and Mag stab II
To fit that I HAD to use to ancillary Router rigs to get the PG. Drop the Neut and I could fit Neut II's, but as its a single rep fit it wont be winning any tanking awards.
Which would be fine, except I now find myself reverting to a plated fit with one less low and, one high that has no real use, and a mid that is only really useful for a second web or something else I dont really need or want.
Great, its an OK ratting/mission ship now... I dont want the damned thing as a PvE boat, I want it as a do or die get in close and break holes in some other guys hull... preferably before he does the same to me PvP boat.
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DigitalCommunist
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2008.02.14 04:36:00 -
[213]
As I said in my post already, if this ship is intended to be used with cap injectors, CCP effectively undid the last Deimos powergrid boost where you could go from small nos -> med nos.
With that setup, you're better off with a small neut and armor or cap rigs or something.
_______________________________
http://epicwords.net/ |
Kieran Jarnush
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Posted - 2008.02.14 10:59:00 -
[214]
Edited by: Kieran Jarnush on 14/02/2008 11:01:54
if even pilots not using the deimos say this change gimped it, tis should mean theres something wrong now. srsly the deimos has a role which, after the last pg buff, it was able to field very well. now u dedicated a new role to it. i fail to see which one that is (have u explained it yet?), and all pilots using it now are really uncomfortable with the change. for pvp tis makes no sense, just sell it. buy an ishtar and nano it.
another point is that active tanking sucks compared to plate/resistance tanking. a repper bonus is nice, but it can't fit a plate and barely has enough armor hp to soack good alpha damage.
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Mag's
MASS
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.02.14 11:05:00 -
[215]
They are right, we are wrong it seems.
Not sure you'll change their minds tbh, it's just like the ridiculous em/exp armour/shield reduction, pointless and completely missing the intended target.
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus
One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Lionel Redstar
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Posted - 2008.02.14 12:45:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Lionel Redstar on 14/02/2008 12:47:18
Seems like the CCP really don't care about what players think since this thread got to 8 pages and not even a "bump" from a dev with reasons or stuff.
CCP, you really need to work on your "comunication" skills.
RE "Not broken, don't fix it" /signed
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James Draekn
X.E.N.O.
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Posted - 2008.02.15 04:05:00 -
[217]
Edited by: James Draekn on 15/02/2008 04:05:39
linkage
Take a look at the response from the DEV in this DEV blog. They are listening to the information we are putting in here. We just need to give them the time to evaluate it, test it, and respond. Being realistic, the community as a whole can come up with better ideas, comes down to the more minds applied theory (CCP has a huge advantage in this department then other MMORPGs). Apparently their main concern is the Deimos' balance versus the zealot/sacrilege now that those ships have been fixed (thank you, CCP). This gaming community has alot invested in this game, and so do the DEVs. Alot of them play this game and what sounds good to them, may not sound/test good once the community tests it.
Bluntly, give them realistic evaluations problems that their proposal causes, and give them solutions to fix it. This helps more and will get payed more attention to then flaming.
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Silmerias
Altera Odyssea
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.02.15 15:17:00 -
[218]
Please... Stop nerf the Deimos !!!... it have already a useless high slot, don't move fast. THE ONLY use of the deimos is to run in close and use it firepower to kill someone before he kill you. I'm really desapointed. Deimos have a close range of 3000m, Vagabon 12km, and zealot a lot of km... It's logic the deimos is less fast as the vaga ? NO ! It's logic to nerf it Firepower ? NO Damit ! The Deimos was never a pownmobile like the vaga. That's sux!
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Tau Ceti Federation
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nemississ
eXceed Inc.
eXceed.
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Posted - 2008.02.16 00:01:00 -
[219]
Right so it seems ccp has decided to reconsider the diemos NERF now I love ccp because they actually listen to us, So everyone calm your self and go read the dev post linked several posts above.
NOW down to why i am making this post Id like to point out that each ship is very diffrent in what it does and how it works Now i think a very good solution to your problem without killing the way the ship is flown by the majority of pilots, is to simply move the spare high slot down to a mid atm some pilots use it for nos or neut but i think most will agree that a spare mid would be nice.
Why woudl this fix the issue your looking at well it would give the ship the ability too be flown in two ways either as a HP tanking gank ship or as an active tanker giving the pilots the ability to fit a cap booster and active tank but must cut back on dps to achive this.
This would create a well balanced ship wich will allow for either a tanked setup or a DPS setup of your choice but not both. The current ship bonuses are fine as is and should NOT be changed IMO because this ship with our without an active tank NEEDs to be able to close the distance on its target (mwd bonus). Damage bonuses are a must But while i personally never fight in falloff with the deimos some may but i think if there must be a bonus change it shoudl be there as that would least affect its current use IMO.
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Ykheron
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Posted - 2008.02.17 13:38:00 -
[220]
Please CCP, stop messing with new gallente ships by giving this so useless armor rep bonus (brutix, hyperion, astarte, etc), just usefull for pve or 1vs1 pvp, do u intend to force gallente to play ur MMO solo ?
Deimos with Megathron and Taranis are the last good gallente ships (droners excepted), just look at kill mails in big alliances.
DON'T TOUCH THESE SHIPS !! (removing 1 low will kill deimos, the 4th med is near useless on a blasterboat)
*think about spe matar that have decent hac untill some amarr whine will nerf it*
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T536
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Posted - 2008.02.18 14:27:00 -
[221]
CCP, Just increase the speed and the powergrid, full rack of neutrons and more speed will be enough  |
Loba Sorrateira
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Posted - 2008.02.18 15:47:00 -
[222]
I guess it all comes down to how the pilots use it, and how these changes go in a different direction. I understand the need to add some balance with the new Amarian ships(which are requiring a boost for a long time), and the difficulty in not using other races bonuses, but the fact is the Deimos is the quintessential GANK ship for most pilots. And that role does not have space for an active tank.(TANK and GANK can't live at the same time on the same ship, balancing 101...) I believe the Astarte has a similar problem, since the repping bonus is useful for PVE, but most people will NOT use an Astarte for missions(no MWD allowed + Blasters = less isk per hour).
What really matters for these ships are: DMG output(the more, the more likely to win), speed(need to approach due to blasters), cap(need for shooting and MWD), armor(needed to survive long enough). I am sure you can reach balance by working on the cap/armor aspect(repping bonus + cap injector), but you change the role of the ship by doing so.
It is NOT an Amarrian ship. It is NOT supposed to outtank the enemies. If it needs fixing(and that is a big IF), then you better change DMG output(enhance tracking?) or speed(decrease approach time). In fact, i think a base speed boost would be most beneficial, keeping the same MWD bonus it has now. It indirectly increases DPS and tank duration on a standard battle.
Loba
ps. This alt is caldari, but my main is a gallente pilot, and the Deimos is the only ship he's fully skilled to fly... Don't mess with it...
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Ripcha Headov
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.02.19 15:13:00 -
[223]
Had a chance to really properly test the new slot layout and its not as horrible as i had first imagined and with a little jiggery pokery i managed to get a nice setup that still does lots of damage and can tank very well for 1 rep. (tanks sentries no prob) 
The extra high i just used with an offlined salvager to act as a heat sink for prolonged overloading on guns. then after fights can online the salvager and get that nice T2 salvage. so tbh i'm realy not too bothered if this 'nerf' comes in or not now. will make soloing in deimos much more viable and for small gangs. Its not the uber damage dealing ship it once was but it still puts out alot of pain and makes tanking it possible.
Sry ccp for getting so anoyed before properly testing it. i can now see the light as it were.
dare i say roll on 6/4/5 deimos?? 
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Ykheron
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Posted - 2008.02.20 13:40:00 -
[224]
Edited by: Ykheron on 20/02/2008 13:47:02
Edited by: Ykheron on 20/02/2008 13:45:02
I recently notice this : (TQ)
Deimos : signature rad = 160m, speed = 205 m/s
Ishtar : signature rad = 145m, speed = 190 m/s
Zealot : signature rad = 125m, speed = 215 m/s
Sacrilege : signature rad = 140m, speed = 205 m/s
Why Deimos, which is designed to mwd rush and blast its target, has worst sig rad and is slower than Zealot ?
So to improve Deimos against new Zealot : (SISI)
- just reduce sig rad to same value : 125m and set its speed to 220m/s.
- maybe add a med slot (with a little more pg for med cap boost) or (better in my opinion) just a little more capacitor.
- let Deimos with 6 low (zealot have 7 !)
This should be enought to take Zealot in close fight (-20km) and long range fight (+40km or +60km for cruiser/has) remain for Zealot.
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Beowulf Scheafer
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Posted - 2008.02.21 08:17:00 -
[225]
Edited by: Beowulf Scheafer on 21/02/2008 08:18:55
the deimos as it is works pretty well in small groups. i use mine with neutron blasters, 3 dmg mods, an inj. and no scrambler. while the proposed change would give me the opportunity to fit a scrambler, it would take a good portion of my dmg. and then i could aswell use a vagabond instead...
6 lowslots is the least to have to really fullfill its role (aka dmg), the proposed 6/4/5 change will only stop people from using it, and they haven't started that long ago.
the repair bonus is nice tho and worth having it, giving up a highslot to get another med is also very welcome (i never had the resources to fit anything besides a small nos in it  ), but sacrificing a lowslot for a med is nothing but a reason to sell it...
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Cypress Cavalero
Debitum Naturae
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Posted - 2008.02.23 02:25:00 -
[226]
straight up NO i have just done 24 days training and am nearly in this ship-
do not do this
deimos is brutal as it is removing a LOW on an ARMOUR tanked ship wtf-
why would you need to nerf this??
arnet there more important things to sort out? de-synches lag or jita instead of playing with something that does actually work?
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Azuse
The Brotherhood Of The Blade
Pure.
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Posted - 2008.02.23 15:00:00 -
[227]
Edited by: Azuse on 23/02/2008 15:00:50
Personally i like having a booster to prolong fights (good thing) and i like being actively tanked, again prolonging fighting (good thing). Sadly someone had an epiphany when they chose to remove the low slot from the (suicide ship) armour tank.
I like the deimos, it does very well vs the other hacs, sadly i also see no point in pvping in any ship i know will end up missing half it's hull after a single encounter, honestly how many people have tried this out and found themselves in flames shooting another ship, and i only fit 2 mag stabs but this tank is lamentable at best.
After one joyous year my deimos is going back into the hanger where it came from, only to be brought out for the ratting, nice changes, badly implemented.
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Antodias
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.23 15:32:00 -
[228]
Well I've done a lot of testing on SiSi, and the Deimos is not worse, it's had its role changed. From being a do-or-die mini-gankthron, its not become more of a slow-burning tank ship.
This means:
(a) It will be much better for solo/small gang work in lowsec.
but
(b) It serves no real purpose in 0.0 or medium to large gangs.
Basically in order to use it effectively you need 1 rep (thus removing its pure gank ability) but I personally think 2 is much better. This gives you a maximum damage potential of ions with no magstabs, and even that needs ancillary rigs. It's active tank is now incredible, but pretty mediocre damage.
In summary, if this change is put through, I'll definatly use it for low sec solo or small gang work and I intend to make some fraps (some fights on sisi were epic). But for 0.0 work, stick with the Ishtar.
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Antodias
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.28 18:10:00 -
[229]
Most of you will be glad to hear the deimos has been changed back to it's original 6/3/6 config and MWD bonus after the mirror, unless its just a temporary thing.
Still I would have preferred a little more testing, since I'm one of the very few people who actually thought the deimos wasn't that bad after the change. But the people who whine on the forums all day every day seem to win out eventually.
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oniplE
Blue.
Blue Federation
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Posted - 2008.02.28 19:18:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Antodias
Most of you will be glad to hear the deimos has been changed back to it's original 6/3/6 config and MWD bonus after the mirror, unless its just a temporary thing.
Still I would have preferred a little more testing, since I'm one of the very few people who actually thought the deimos wasn't that bad after the change. But the people who whine on the forums all day every day seem to win out eventually.
The deimos wasnt worse, but it was different. The role of the ship is fine, they should have just boosted it while retaining its role. 6th turret imo! :P
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ChalSto
Divine Retribution
Divine 0rder
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Posted - 2008.02.29 06:29:00 -
[231]
Confirmed. Deimos is back on its old state <3
Sooooooooo, dear Devs. Back to the drawingboard.
Boost? How about a 7th low? 
Evil will allways triumph, becouse Good is dumb
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MellaRinn
Gallente
Veto.
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.02.29 12:04:00 -
[232]
Edited by: MellaRinn on 29/02/2008 12:03:51
Originally by: ChalSto
Confirmed. Deimos is back on its old state <3
Sooooooooo, dear Devs. Back to the drawingboard.
Boost? How about a 7th low?
screenshot here: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0802/DeimosSiSi29Feb2008.jpg
✖Veto Corp. Officer✖
Click the sig 4 my vids |
Lobster Man
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2008.02.29 12:05:00 -
[233]
If you REALLY want to change something, I would seriously not mind swapping the 6th highslot for the 4th midslot ^_^
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M1AU
Gallente
Rheintal Underground Rising
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Posted - 2008.02.29 12:45:00 -
[234]
Boost? How about some more PG or maybe just a velocity increase/weight decrease?
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DigitalCommunist
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2008.02.29 16:36:00 -
[235]
Lame, looks like they caved into whining. Deimos is fine on TQ right now, but its not going to compete with a 5 turret Zealot. Instead of abolishing the whole idea of change, they should have simply abolished the first change. I still want a rep bonus and 4th mid, at the expense of mwd bonus and 6th utility high.
_______________________________
http://epicwords.net/ |
Willy Joe
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Posted - 2008.02.29 19:59:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Ykheron
Edited by: Ykheron on 20/02/2008 14:04:32
I recently noticed this : (TQ)
Deimos : signature rad = 160m, speed = 205 m/s
Ishtar : signature rad = 145m, speed = 190 m/s
Zealot : signature rad = 125m, speed = 215 m/s
Sacrilege : signature rad = 140m, speed = 205 m/s
Why the Deimos, which is designed to mwd rush and blast its target, has worst sig rad and is slower than the Zealot ?
So to improve the Deimos against the new Zealot : (SISI)
- just reduce sig rad to same value : 125m and set its speed to 220m/s.
- maybe add a med slot (with a little more pg for med cap boost) or (better in my opinion) just a little more capacitor.
- let the Deimos with 6 low (the Zealot have 7 !)
This should be enought for the Deimos to take the new Zealot in close range fight (-20km) and long range fight (+40km or +60km for cruiser/has) remains for the Zealot.
This doesn't nerf the Deimos's fleet role ;)
You , my friend , are hilarious!
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Ephemeron
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.29 21:53:00 -
[237]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Lame, looks like they caved into whining. Deimos is fine on TQ right now, but its not going to compete with a 5 turret Zealot. Instead of abolishing the whole idea of change, they should have simply abolished the first change. I still want a rep bonus and 4th mid, at the expense of mwd bonus and 6th utility high.
The main thing players were against was removal of MWD bonus. The slot changes may be ok. If there is a need to boost the Deimos, it can still be done, just without sacrificing the MWD bonus. There's always more than 1 way to change things.
Can't you see that MWD bonus is a very special bonus, its uniqueness should be preserved. Other stats may be changed tho.
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Poba
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Posted - 2008.02.29 22:55:00 -
[238]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Lame, looks like they caved into whining. Deimos is fine on TQ right now, but its not going to compete with a 5 turret Zealot. Instead of abolishing the whole idea of change, they should have simply abolished the first change. I still want a rep bonus and 4th mid, at the expense of mwd bonus and 6th utility high.
/signed
the deimos attribute changes werent too bad being that it was also recieveing the extra cap to make up for the loss of the MWD bonus, the change it really needed was 6th high slot >> 4th med slot. then the ship would be able to perform as well as it should
~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~ |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Gallente
Ixion Defence Systems
The Cyrene Initiative
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Posted - 2008.02.29 23:17:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
Lame, looks like they caved into whining. Deimos is fine on TQ right now, but its not going to compete with a 5 turret Zealot. Instead of abolishing the whole idea of change, they should have simply abolished the first change. I still want a rep bonus and 4th mid, at the expense of mwd bonus and 6th utility high.
The main thing players were against was removal of MWD bonus. The slot changes may be ok. If there is a need to boost the Deimos, it can still be done, just without sacrificing the MWD bonus. There's always more than 1 way to change things.
Can't you see that MWD bonus is a very special bonus, its uniqueness should be preserved. Other stats may be changed tho.
The MWD bonus was compensated by a (small however) cap capacity increase. It's a unique bonus indeed, but not always useful (especially if you are in a small gang and don't look to get out).
I am with Digital Communist on this one. The high slot was not being used in many setups people use, but the 6th low was very useful.
The armor repair bonus, i don't know what to think of it on a ship that is not designed to have a goal of outlasting it's opponents. But it's not bad. To have it though Deimos really needs another pg increase, and frankly it needs some love in agility and speed.
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Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it. |
Taius Pax
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Posted - 2008.03.01 01:07:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Poba
/signed
the deimos attribute changes werent too bad being that it was also recieveing the extra cap to make up for the loss of the MWD bonus, the change it really needed was 6th high slot >> 4th med slot. then the ship would be able to perform as well as it should
They weren't "too bad", but they were unnecessary and they're out of sync with how that ship is used. Making changes for the sake of changes is getting old and it ends up screwing people who use the ship. If it were broken I'd understand it, but changing those slots and the MWD bonus changes the ship's role, which sucks if you actually use the ship.
The changes to the Deimos were just more crap like Sansha Mk II. The result were some good ships, but it royally ****** anyone who had skilled to fly them. (change armor tanking to shield tanking, change to lasers only...)
If there's a problem with a ship, fix it, but changing stuff just to change is annoying to anyone who happens to use it.
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