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Pociomundo Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 20:47:00 - [1] Lost one low, gained 1 mid. No thanks.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.02.01 20:51:00 - [2] Now do the same thing for the Raven and Rokh. And for the tempest, swap one mid for one low!
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:17:00 - [3] im sorry but wtf is the point here? _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Antodias North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:24:00 - [4] Edited by: Antodias on 01/02/2008 21:24:19 Are there any patch notes for sisi? I'd rather know whats changed so to properly test it rather than stealth changes. On topic, I'm not sure what they're trying to do here, make it more cap stable or something? Can't say I'm that impressed. ------------------------------------ Politically Correct since 2007. No really.
Pociomundo Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:31:00 - [5] Edited by: Pociomundo on 01/02/2008 21:35:28 The Deimos is about up close damage, killing your target before it kills you after closing at high speed through weapons fire. Not about injecting your capacitor to sustain a more tanked setup and outlive your opponent through repairs. MWD Bonus is GONE, replaced with 7.5% to effectiveness of armour repairer. So now we have a small Brutix that's 3x as expensive, does less damage and tanks worse. WHich dev thought this was a good idea? Really... The changes are completly against the idea behind the ship. It is no longer the ultimate close range blaster cruiser.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:33:00 - [6] I can confirm that on SIS right now, the Deimos is: 6 hi 4 med 5 low good news is, i suppose, that your meds will now be: mwd, scram, web, cap injector but given the deimoses need to operate in web range and thus its requirement for a good tank....not sure how this will play out. Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
Karina Sasieko Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:46:00 - [7] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn I can confirm that on SIS right now, the Deimos is: 6 hi 4 med 5 low good news is, i suppose, that your meds will now be: mwd, scram, web, cap injector but given the deimoses need to operate in web range and thus its requirement for a good tank....not sure how this will play out. On a properly fitted deimos you don't need a cap injector; it's cap stable for 2m30s-3minutes - thats normal fight time of deimos; you eihter die, kill or bail out - even when perma running the mar with 800mm plate.
Hunter Vonnegut In terrorem KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:49:00 - [8] HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!
Karina Sasieko Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:49:00 - [9] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed
Berand Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:53:00 - [10] Oh please, tell me this is one of those things where CCP was just messing around, haha, wont the Gallente pilots flip when they see THIS! Why would you turn this ship, which just became decent after the last tweak, in to a really expensive Brutix?
MellaRinn Gallente Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:53:00 - [11] Originally by: Karina Sasieko Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed can't agree more... OR WAIT! Let's passive shield tank it... :/ ✖Veto Corp. Officer✖ Click the sig 4 my vids
Cincinnaty Kid	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:56:00 - [12] Yeah this change should not come live on Tranquility... why change a ship which is good working... just crap change...
Verone Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:04:00 - [13] So, the amarr changes were great, but now you're raping a ship that works perfectly fine. Oh look, it's the sansha changes all over again. >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW - EVE FICTION <<<
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:15:00 - [14] the deimos changes are pure W T F. --- planetary interaction idea!
Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:18:00 - [15] Edited by: Stakhanov on 01/02/2008 22:19:22 Edited by: Stakhanov on 01/02/2008 22:18:42 You didn't seriously think Zulupark would implement needed , reasonable changes for Amarr & Caldari without indulging in ship mutilation , did you Originally by: ivan draco we didnt want your post anyway
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:28:00 - [16] Originally by: Stakhanov Edited by: Stakhanov on 01/02/2008 22:19:22 Edited by: Stakhanov on 01/02/2008 22:18:42 You didn't seriously think Zulupark would implement needed , reasonable changes for Amarr & Caldari without indulging in ship mutilation , did you I did. guess i am gullible
Antodias North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:43:00 - [17] Oh god, make it stop. Seriously, did the devs get high and decide that it was the Deimos' turn to suck again after having been made half decent for a few months? ------------------------------------ Politically Correct since 2007. No really.
Azuse Live and Learn Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:58:00 - [18] Edited by: Azuse on 01/02/2008 23:00:06 umm, we spend 2 years typing to get someone to fix the thing, it happens then someone comes along and **s it up AGAIN**. WTF? oh and if this is supposed to be the ultimate blaster what's the point in the vigilant these days? Repping may be in line with the other blasters so how about we just gimp the thorax as well and remove them from the game? -------------------------
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:10:00 - [19] The change would be fine, as long as one thing is done: increase base cap 25% to compensate for the removed bonus, and do the same for the Thorax. The MWD cap bonus is worthless and needed changing, but it needed changing the right way. As for the low -> mid change, no. An injector is nice, but the 4th mid should replace the useless spare high slot, not a very useful low.
bldyannoyed Un4seen Development	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:12:00 - [20] Who in their right ***** mind thought that this was anything even approaching a good idea? Take the uber DPS OMFG do-or-die balls to the wall thrill HAC and turn it into a ** poor , more expensive, less tough, less damaging version of a Brutix. Seriously. WTF.
Hunyoo Gurglebush Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:13:00 - [21] I usually don't bother posting about SiSi changes... but sheesh, these must be some of the most stupid changes CCP has ever proposed. Easily turns the Deimos into one of the most ****ty HACs in game.
Grytok moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:09:00 - [22] CCP, wtf are you thinking? Seriously, leave the Deimos alone! It does'nt need a repair-bonus, it doesn't need a freakin wasted 4th Mid-Slot in exchange for a Low-Slot. Go f**k up something else, like the Bantam. . CCP gave us shiny new graphics. Too bad they removed Anti Aliasing for me :\
Jade190	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! Reposted for emphasis
Artemis Dragmire Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed The Deimos was fine, it wasn't a broken ship, it was plenty easy to kill, and it had versatility in it's fittings. Please let's not see this change come to TQ, the Deimos doesn't need fixing. Also, why would the cruiser bonus change from the t1 version of a ship to the t2? Every other ship in the game has the same cruiser bonus as the t1 counterpart, but the deimos suddenly changes. And the slot changes are just bad, the fitting options for the deimos are extremely limited now, and while it will be able to tank a hell of a lot more, it will have to rely on cap boosters to do so, and it will most definately cap out long before it can kill any equally matched ship due to it's pathetic DPS now. (Zealot, Ishtar, sacriledge, etc) And in a gang setup it no longer has the ability to bring the pain and still have a semi-reasonable buffer for WHEN it gets primaried (not "if").
Nova Fox	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:35:00 - [25] rumor has it the family of assualts might be getting anew type of bonus that would make electronic warfare options less viable against them. If a demios where to grain reistance to being nossed painted or webbed could change alot of things making this change not as bad.
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:40:00 - [26] Deimos has a useless high and ONLY just enough lows at 6 to fullfill gank/heavy assault role considering it needs to have an armour buffer. Losing a low is terrible! No to this change please. One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:47:00 - [27] Slot change would be ok, if it was -1 high and +1 mid. This however, is horrible.
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:56:00 - [28] I don't understand what CCP intend with this change. It's not a great ship, but since the speed and PG boosts it's been worth using as a fairly fast gank & passive tank ship. In it's current state on TQ, it already has some fitting issues compared to other ships, and the new bonuses point to much more powergrid intensive setups. 5 lows means that any attempt at a gank setup will have even less armour buffer than it does currently, so a tank setup would be more practical. The rep bonus obviously also supports this. Fitting a Deimos without an MWD is usually impractical, so with the loss of the MWD bonus it now has lower cap with one fitted, despite the boost to base cap. Along with the 4th mid, this suggests CCP want us to use cap boosters. So we're looking at 300 MW of extra modules required for a sensible Deimos setup, which has to be taken away from the guns, which effectively relegates the Deimos to using low damage tank setups. It looks to me like the Myrmidon-Ishtar problem pre-bandwidth, where the only advantage to the Ishtar over the much cheaper Myrm was the higher maneuverability. The solution in that case was to remove the Myrm's heavy drones to give the Ishtar back its defining ability, but the Brutix needs a boost, if anything, and there's really no reason to try and change the Deimos' role from the current TQ state. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.02 02:26:00 - [29] PLEASE CCP! I'd love a 4th midslot, but dont drop a lowslot. Holy ***! drop that useless 6th highslot instead. signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Rule2k Annihilative Intention.	Posted - 2008.02.02 03:00:00 - [30] Edited by: Rule2k on 02/02/2008 03:01:32 beg all you want, ccp are fags towards gallente
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:08:00 - [31] WTF? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO This ship is good just the way it is. It already is outdamaged and outtanked by a brutix. It's only advantage is that it is faster and more maneuverable. After this change, it still won't tank as much as a brutix, but won't do as much damage. Are you TRYING to ruin every gallente ship CCP?
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Verone So, the amarr changes were great, but now you're raping a ship that works perfectly fine. Oh look, it's the sansha changes all over again. /signed This ship is perfectly fine. It dies easy and kills well. No more bree for that man -> (im pointing at the dev who came up with the idea) Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights. [url="http://myeve.eve-online.co
Rayvenne	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:26:00 - [33] Ugh. First my Arazu, now my Deimos. Why CCP why? Why can't you just leave well enough alone?
Terraisa Nichols Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:52:00 - [34] Wow.. just wow.. I suppose I would be more upset if I had spent the last 3 weeks training Gal cruiser 5 to fly Deimos and not Ishtar. It would have been nice to try Deimos but I'm more baffled than angry. I'm not sure where CCP thinks they are going with this one but if they want to turn it into a tank, it needs that low slot back and more. Some resistance bonuses would be good.
Zana Kito	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:56:00 - [35] Get rid of useless high slots, nobody uses NOS anymore after its been horribly nerfed. A 5/4/6 deimos is the perfect HAC for close range gank. Get rid of the repair bonus, it doesn't belong there. This ship is about firepower. A 6/4/5 deimos is a horribly gimped version of a brutix.
Antaris Xenal Gallente Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2008.02.02 05:33:00 - [36] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed, ccp how much beer you been drinking? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -TheDagda ([email protected])
Maximus Knight	Posted - 2008.02.02 05:44:00 - [37] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed
Adour The IMorral MAjority	Posted - 2008.02.02 06:02:00 - [38] Please stop this. Eve is incredibly well balanced considering its complexity and despite what those who want instant gratification and a 'do everything' ship say. The Diemos is a niche ship, like almost every other ship out there. You take a risk, it pays off or it doesn't... Occasionally with good skills, and the right target, you kill things that EFT syas you shouldn't; it is not broken so please don't fix it.
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.02.02 06:39:00 - [39] Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 02/02/2008 06:41:31 Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!! This. if you really need to ad a mid slot, Dont take away the desperately needed low slot. Take away the useless small nos highslot. Im meh about losing the mwd cap bonus for the rep bonus. its cap is being booseted anyways, so its not really losing much there. Unless the ship gets more PG, its gonna be interesting trying to fit a MAR + Cap Injector + Neutrons (hell even Ions). I just dont like losing the Low slot. ------------------------------------------------------------------
General StarScream Borg Collective hive mind	Posted - 2008.02.02 06:40:00 - [40] Ye they are tottal ******s, they making every race and ship class the same with just diffrent layout and wepons system. EVE should be about team work and using all the races in a gang to make the most out of each races special ability. this is like Getting Jessica alba and Rick Muleg in the same room, then make a sex change on em to make em more the type you like. Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Daan Sai HAZCON Inc Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.02 06:49:00 - [41] Originally by: Fendahl Deimos: Slots: 6/4/5 (+1 med, -1 low) Capacitor capacity: 1625.0en (+250en) Bonuses: 5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage per Gallente Cruiser level (no change) 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Gallente Cruiser level (replaces the MWD capacitor penalty reduction) The above mentioned changes to the Deimos and Zealot allow them to better compete on even term with other close range HACs, such as the Sacrilege. I sort of see where you are gogin with this, but wouldn't this wreck a lot of lowslot tank setups? Would it be bad to just add a mid?
Kane Darkstar Caldari Fukumaden	Posted - 2008.02.02 08:11:00 - [42] Wow just Wow I don't understand the point of these changes. I have been flying the Deimos for awhile now and it was fine as it is. It was made to be a close up all or nothing gank ship. With a passive setup. Trying to make it a active tank setup on it is just fail imho. It has cap issues as it is and the armor is two thin for active tanking that one rep is nothing. And why loose the low for the mid? If they want to add a midslot I think they should just move that hardly used last highslot and stick that as a med slot instead of the other way around. Please think about it CCP this seems like a bad change not to mention it's slot lay out now will but like all the rest of the hacs more or less. There is not enough verity in the ships layouts as it is. Please reconsider CCP the ship just got fixed to to the point where people started to use it.
Spike 68 Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:15:00 - [43] Edited by: Spike 68 on 02/02/2008 09:19:23 Its funny, the dev blog mentions how this is a boost but in actuality it would hurt most deimos a lot. Taking a low away hurts its dmg quite a bit, on my setup anyway, and considering a well fit deimos wont have capacitor issues a mid slot cap injector wont help much. Also a medium cap injector will not fit on most deimos setups to begin with. Next consider the optimal way to boost a deimos' tank, it has about 2600 armor, tbh id put a plate on there before I would want a rep bonus. If the deimos really has issues with the new zealot then let the deimos keep the 6th low, or simply don't boost the zealot.
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:22:00 - [44] Someone tell zulupark that 800mm plates keep hacs alive nowadays - NOT reppers. Quite funny change considering that this makes the deimos a worse tank then it was in most cases. Rep bonus is neat for 1 on 1 situations. Now how often do we get these nowadays? Same goes for the zealot: 5th turrets is very cool. Only problem is that you cannot fit one with a setup that wont die to a wet towel.
Schani Kratnorr Internal Revenue Service	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:30:00 - [45] If the current trend in rebalancing continues all ships will end up having four high, four mid and four low slots. All resists will be the same on both shield and armor, and all weapons will be carbon copies. I dont fly the deimos myself, but I cant say I approve of the constant tinckering, it upsets an increasingly larger number of people, and only moves another ship up to the number one spot, where it stays until it is changed.
Fifi LeFume Griefers Inc. Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:40:00 - [46] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed
Hunter Vonnegut In terrorem KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:42:00 - [47] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! I think this should become our new mantra for the direction CCP is going with this game. I am sure you could ask a 3 month old empire carebear that has only begun to grasp the finer details of EVE. And he or she could come up with a list as long as their arms of bugs and other crap that your attention could be directed towards. So for gods sake leave the ship tweaking alone. Why dont you guys fix the map or something useful. Think about it. A well fit deimos with decent hac and gunnery skills will knock the crap out of almost anything, except for maybe a crazy passive tanked broadsword (think about that for a minute). Engaging anything is always going to be a gamble but that is the way it's supposed to be. Adding this stupid rep bonus and removing the lows pretty much forces you to make this a more tank less gank ship, and if that is the case why not fly a brutix or an astarte. That what we have those ships for. Quit homginizing all my ships!! PLEASE!!! Im trained solely to fly Gallentee ships and every little tweak you guys have made in the past few months has made my choices of ships shrink every time. I swear the next thing to happen is that you are going to remove the drone bay from my velator, and that will be the last straw.
Johan Quinn	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:51:00 - [48] POintless change to Deimos. Leave it!
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:58:00 - [49] Just give it the 4th mid slot and leave it the hell alone. OR TAKE A HIGH SLOT. That crappy nos/cloak****ging/salvager lulz slot. Take it from the Phobos, its bastard vibrator clone brother. I think it is pretty cool that a Phobos needs 3 mids to fit mwd/web/injector but got 4 for lulz and the Deimos had to be turned into a thorax to get the same luxury... A 4th mid for the Deimos would be great for some setups, but leave its bonus's and low slots alone... jesus... i think most Deimos pilots have learned to live without a cap injector and would probably just fit dual webs or something really random like an ECM burst. (the cap bonus allowed for this, doesn't that work out nicely? your predecessors were not idiots.) It has trouble fitting big guns already ok? we know this yes? So trying to pack on a med cap injector would pretty much screw the ships damage output yes? So it would not be overpowered correct? And tanking bonus... my god... even on the Brutix i feel like its a waste when I'm trying to do any damage at all, I have very little tank... on a Deimos i sometimes run a medium rep, sometimes only a small for post fight patch ups. PLEASE DON'T KILL THIS SHIP. As has been stated... with rails it sucks, with blasters it is the balls to the walls all or nothing gank hac. Currently I don't think the Deimos is in need of a Nerf, it isn't even the FOTM by a long way...
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.02 10:01:00 - [50] Originally by: Zana Kito Get rid of useless high slots, nobody uses NOS anymore after its been horribly nerfed. A 5/4/6 deimos is the perfect HAC for close range gank. Get rid of the repair bonus, it doesn't belong there. This ship is about firepower. A 6/4/5 deimos is a horribly gimped version of a brutix. Agreeing with this. Even with 2 grid rigs I doubt the deimos would be overpowered just by having an extra mid slot. As I said before, I'd probably go with a second web or some kind of ECM... maybe a tracking computer, though I have only started to use the Deimos recently due to wallet issues I am a long term thorax lover... these changes make me sad.
Darth Natus Dark Tornado Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.02.02 10:04:00 - [51] i just dont get it. deimos is all about damage, not tanking ability. u negate the damage by forcing an injector fit and thus ruining the fittings, u add an injector slot to try to cover up the loss of mwd bonus (mwd bonus did the job better on a decent fit deimos imho), and replace the mwd bonus with a rep bonus, which u cancel out with the loss of low slot. wtf? The deimos is a damage ship, and is naturally a plated passive tank, thus the rep bonus is useless. if u want a tanking thorax, u buy a phobos. and if u want a thorax for damage, you now buy a brutix. the deimos is now the runt of the litter again. well done. PLZ dont make that change live on tq!
Raimo Gallente Blue.	Posted - 2008.02.02 10:44:00 - [52] I don't fly the Deimos yet, but being a Thorax user I was going to start toyng with Deimoses soon enough, was looking forward to it... But I won't bother if this change goes live. Might skip Gall Cruiser V for now TBH. *CCP, please improve the UI and make it customizable with more assignable key commands!*
Sorien Marutor The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.02.02 10:48:00 - [53] I don't like this change at all! I guess now that Lachesis, Arazu, Deimos, Eos, Nosdomi and Ishtar are nerfed (some of them to death) i need to train the close to overpowered Minmatar. Thanks CCP for your well reconsidered balance decisions.
Darth Natus Dark Tornado Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.02.02 10:50:00 - [54] Originally by: Sorien Marutor I don't like this change at all! I guess now that Lachesis, Arazu, Deimos, Eos, Nosdomi and Ishtar are nerfed (some of them to death) i need to train the close to overpowered Minmatar. Thanks CCP for your well reconsidered balance decisions. dont forget the myrm
Grytok moon7empler Ev0ke	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:08:00 - [55] I've tried a few setups for the Deimos on SiSi, but whatever I do (Plates or Resists) the Deimos just can't be tanked with only 5 low-slots. Leave it as it is pretty pls. Damage is much more tank for this ship, then a MAR II or a 800mm RT. CapBooster 800's run out pretty fast, if you're running a Rep + 5 Blaster + Scram/Web as you only have room for 7 or 8 of those. . CCP gave us shiny new graphics. Too bad they removed Anti Aliasing for me :\
A'esma Daeva	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:18:00 - [56] Deimos aint broken so please dont fix.
Tes Quin	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:29:00 - [57] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! seriously, if you think it needs more tank, taking away a tanking slot is a bit weird. if you feel the need for a cap booster, remove one high as suggested here. -- Artillery is the God of War
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.02.02 12:05:00 - [58] Please dont "fix" a ship that isnt broken if anything swop the high for the mid slot.
Y3R M4W	Posted - 2008.02.02 12:20:00 - [59] Deimos is one of the few starts I've never thought could make good use of a cap booster. Problem here is with 5 lows it's never gonna tank better than a Brutix whilst having less dps, since there'll be less room for damage mods. As I see it the best change would be the utility high slot for a med, keeping the 6th low, since a cap booster obsoletes any need for nos (although admitedly a neut would be interesting). Note: YER MAW! is Scottish for Your Mother.
Inturist Nuclear Reactor Inc Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.02 12:22:00 - [60] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.02.02 12:31:00 - [61] Hey the deimos is now excellent at mission running...... yeah. --------------------------------- Oh noes!
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.02 12:41:00 - [62] Edited by: The Djego on 02/02/2008 12:45:48 Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! Exactly this. The Tank of the Deimos is the Damage of this Ship. It has a small Cargohold and can¦t go like the Ishtar with Medbooster(far bigger Cargo btw) and MWD plus Dualrepper because it needs the Lows for Damage Mods and the Grid for big Blasters. The Deimos don¦t need a cap Booster(at least since the Nos Changes) simply because it is dead before you run out of Cap or close after this. The Ship works perfectly fine as it is(one of a few Blaster Ships that work without a Cap Booster when fitted with a MWD). Phobos actualy works way better if you want a cruiser sized Tank, Brutix also because of the bigger HP Buffer and the bigger Cargo. Deimos is the best pure Gank Hac It don¦t need to be heavy tanked because it will fail the role of pure gank after this. When this changes go live you remove the point in picking a Deimos over a Ishtar\Brutix completly and gimping the ship, that finaly works nicely after so many changes. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
Lews Stark COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.02.02 12:51:00 - [63] What the hell? The ship had been useful for three months only and you're breaking it again? With such crappy changes? This is just plain stupid.
Frances Ducoir Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.02 13:24:00 - [64] arazu, lachesis, deimos, ishkur, myrm, eos(+ganglinks) nerfed... seriously... my patience is wearing thin. after the RSD (and thus gallente recon nerf) i was like "meeeh... ok they were overpowered anyway" then myrm + eos were nerfed too far... and now this... why dont you just delete gallente and let us respecc as caldari / matar / amarr? i'd love to... honestly. gallente is the short range and high damage drone + blaster race. why do we get more and more pressed into tanking roles? less drone damage, other races getting boosts to damage (torp raven - lol) ... wtf. snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
oniplE Blue.	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:20:00 - [65] The changes are just ridiculous, they dont fit the deimos nor are they positive changes. You want to increase tank, you add a tank bonus but you remove a low slot? Hello? How exactly is that going to increase the defenses of the deimos? Then there's the capacitor nerf. Base deimos has 1375 cap, with bonus its 1719. The new deimos has ((1375+250)1.25)0.75) = 1523 cap. Thats -196 cap? How is that helping? But now that the deimos (apparently) is back on the drawing board, perhaps its time to take a look at that complete and utter useless 6th highslot? x
NeoTheo Caldari Species 5618 Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:22:00 - [66] Originally by: Grimpak the deimos changes are pure W T F. Grim, in another post you said "dont worry they prolly have not looked at fitting requirements yet just slot layout (i cant find it now). but you might do well to heed your wn advice here mate, if you got the extra PG to fit Ions or NEutrons, would you bemore chiled about the change? i think the change is ok, but the fact you loose the ability to fit neutrons is a big deal, if it gets more grid then it should be a decent change.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:30:00 - [67] Originally by: NeoTheo Originally by: Grimpak the deimos changes are pure W T F. Grim, in another post you said "dont worry they prolly have not looked at fitting requirements yet just slot layout (i cant find it now). but you might do well to heed your wn advice here mate, if you got the extra PG to fit Ions or NEutrons, would you bemore chiled about the change? i think the change is ok, but the fact you loose the ability to fit neutrons is a big deal, if it gets more grid then it should be a decent change. I did? --- planetary interaction idea!
NeoTheo Caldari Species 5618 Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:33:00 - [68] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: NeoTheo Originally by: Grimpak the deimos changes are pure W T F. Grim, in another post you said "dont worry they prolly have not looked at fitting requirements yet just slot layout (i cant find it now). but you might do well to heed your wn advice here mate, if you got the extra PG to fit Ions or NEutrons, would you bemore chiled about the change? i think the change is ok, but the fact you loose the ability to fit neutrons is a big deal, if it gets more grid then it should be a decent change. I did? ROFL I THINK it was you ;) ouch might have been merin, if so i appologise ;) point stands tho, if you get more grid would you be happy?
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:42:00 - [69] Originally by: NeoTheo ROFL I THINK it was you ;) ouch might have been merin, if so i appologise ;) point stands tho, if you get more grid would you be happy? Dunno about him but but my answer is no. Grid has been an issue yes, but it is certainly not big enough of an issue to make it a compensating factor with regards to these new changes. These new changes butcher the ship. They completely change it into something nobody wants. If you have to change anything, just remove 1 high and add 1 mid. It's simply and doesn't re-invent the wheel. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
NeoTheo Caldari Species 5618 Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:45:00 - [70] Originally by: Spenz Originally by: NeoTheo ROFL I THINK it was you ;) ouch might have been merin, if so i appologise ;) point stands tho, if you get more grid would you be happy? Dunno about him but but my answer is no. Grid has been an issue yes, but it is certainly not big enough of an issue to make it a compensating factor with regards to these new changes. These new changes butcher the ship. They completely change it into something nobody wants. If you have to change anything, just remove 1 high and add 1 mid. It's simply and doesn't re-invent the wheel. I dont fly the Demo myself, so i am not commenting so to speak or saying "i am right", i am more interested as i am cross training galente from caldari and the lack of a active rep setup for the demo always bothered me (dont know why - just did), so really looking for opinions of people who fly it day in day out. but thanks for the input dude ;)
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:46:00 - [71] Originally by: NeoTheo Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: NeoTheo Originally by: Grimpak the deimos changes are pure W T F. Grim, in another post you said "dont worry they prolly have not looked at fitting requirements yet just slot layout (i cant find it now). but you might do well to heed your wn advice here mate, if you got the extra PG to fit Ions or NEutrons, would you bemore chiled about the change? i think the change is ok, but the fact you loose the ability to fit neutrons is a big deal, if it gets more grid then it should be a decent change. I did? ROFL I THINK it was you ;) ouch might have been merin, if so i appologise ;) point stands tho, if you get more grid would you be happy? well, as it is now, the deimos is balanced. it dishes over 500 dps (700 if you decide to slap hammer II's there) in exchange of having no tank at all. it's a gank ship that does wonders in gang situations, but craps up if a velator sneezes at it. I call it balanced. --- planetary interaction idea!
Pride NL Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:50:00 - [72] In this 4 year i play EVE I never bothered to post on comming changes. But after 4 years I finally started to like one specific ship, the Deimos. Pending changes do not give me a good mood. My current setup works fine and is a very tight fit. For me personally dropping 1 low slot would mean less dps (dropping the mag stab). BUT CCP implies to use cap injector and dual rep. It has been said before, but to make this all fit you will need to fit Electron Blasters or use rigs for PG boost. And what do Electron Blasters do? Indeed, they nerf your dps. And even with Electron Blasters and PG rigs im not sure that you will be able to fit the suggested tank. You need plates to stay alive. Deimos isnt untouchable, but it is a high dps ship. And very agile. I like the Astarte and Eos, but these are bricks compared to the Deimos. Thats why I like the Deimos very much these days. Also because of the current bonus you have no MWD penalty. Which in turn means I can run all mods for infinite (not including the MWD). So why would one need a cap injector. Your reps cant keep up anyway. You will be in hull before your reps even get a chance to fix your armor! The only thing you will be boosting is the use of EW on the Deimos. As everyone will dock up and fit plates and not cap injectors with dual rep. HAC's are all about skills. Not EVE skills, but 'person skills'. You need to know how to fly it or you die. And if you where able to fit the Deimos with dual rep and injector, it will be a mainstream ship; Everyone can use it. In short the changes will do this: * Nerf resistance / tank * Nerf dps * add EW to the deimos I can't imagion this is the intended goal. And yes, if it aint broken... Arrive. Raise Hell. Leave.
Audrea Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.02 14:53:00 - [73] Dont touch my baby guys! as said before DONT fix what aint broken!!! We worked all too hard to get her right (including us on the deimos thread, lets not start again, okays? :P )
Markus Fox	Posted - 2008.02.02 15:01:00 - [74] STOP WHINING!!! test it first, then complane about it... I LIKE WHAT YOU CCP HAVE DONE TO DEIMOS...awesom changes, now we have more wider fitting capabilities keep good work...nice done... and this i call not (DONT fix what aint broken!!!), i call this ENHANCEMENT...
Nianda SeCann	Posted - 2008.02.02 15:09:00 - [75] I get woken up this morning by my flatmate telling me of these changes, I then fall back to sleep thinking that i must of had an unpleasant dream. I'm now awake and reading this, thinking to myself "hey hang on, didn't we just get a slight improvement to this ship, now with resist changes I'll have to rethink my set-up, but oh hang on another change??" so what plan does this follow, 'the build them up to knock them down plan'? Was bearing along with these recent change ideas thinking they have some idea, but now I have to ask "what are you doing?" I think its time that rather than just a few dev words here and there, someone from CCP explains where these ideas are leading? I know that at end of the day it is your game, but many ppls here have invested a lot of their time in eve and atm I'm (as I'm sure many others are) confused to where you guys are taking us. Please give us a few minutes to reassure us of eve's direction and future. fanbois flames away :)
Kithron Darklite inc Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.02 15:34:00 - [76] I like the energy boost, I like ths slot layout change. (It would be nice to keep the extra low, but that wold probably be unbalanced) But replacing the MWD bonus with a rep amount bonus = LAME!! Darklite Inc. Diplomat
Tadehiro Kudzu Collective Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 16:03:00 - [77] Errrr, was there any particular reason for this change....? I hadn't noticed anything wrong with the Deimos other then the, "Bright bullseye on it because it dies comparatively easily." Which is fine IMO given it's high damage output... Cap boosters were never desireable because the hit hard and fade away tactics used for it much like a vagabond...
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.02.02 16:15:00 - [78] CCP, thanks for the needed changes to the gimped amarr and caldari railolboats. However, if there are any ships that need lows swapped to mids, it's the caldari shield tankers, not a gallente armor tanker. Thanks :)
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.02 16:41:00 - [79] Originally by: NeoTheo I dont fly the Demo myself, so i am not commenting so to speak or saying "i am right", i am more interested as i am cross training galente from caldari and the lack of a active rep setup for the demo always bothered me (dont know why - just did), so really looking for opinions of people who fly it day in day out. (on balance i think my issue with HP setups was that plates kipper your movement speed etc, and that kinda defeats the point of a HAC, imo, why not fly a brutix?)/. but thanks for the input dude ;) I fly the deimos on a fairly regular basis. You have to understand that HP setups (or passive armor tanks) are the ONLY viable pvp setup you can get on a deimos if you want a tank. Because of the close range nature of the deimos, it needs HP to survive its mad dash into blaster range. An active tank is not viable for several reasons: 1. Active tanks are micro-intensive and time sensitive. If you don't turn on the module at a certain time, and if you don't regulate your repper module, you will soon find yourself out of cap, out of armor, or both. Even the slightest bit of lag makes micro-management impossible, especially when you are trying to control your drones, weapons, speed, tackling gear, transversal, and MWD against a human opponent. 2. Active tanks feed off immense amounts of cap. The deimos is already cap anemic. Adding a cap booster will only mitigate its current issues. If you add in a cap-sucking medium armor repper you will have issues. The deimos is already extremely vulnerable to neutralizers. Adding another cap-intensive system to your ship will only make you that much more vulnerable (HP passive tanks are not affected by neutralizers). 3. Reppers take grid and cpu that you just might not have. I can't even imagine a deimos that has a medium repper, a cap booster, a mwd, and a decent set of guns without resorting to rigs. Heck even with rigs can you fit neutrons with all that gear? So as you can see, active tanking is not too great for the deimos. The slight loss of speed and agility you get with a plate is far outweighed by the benefits that you gain. When you have more HP, you have more time. When you have more time, you do more damage. That bit of time will give you more damage, and that damage in many cases will be what decides the battle in your favor. Hope this helps. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Poba The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.02 16:43:00 - [80] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed we just got this ship fixed not too long ago, why are you killing it again ? And the other nerfs; myrm, celest family, eos. I dont see why gal is getting beat with the nerf bat so bad ~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~
Poba The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.02 16:54:00 - [81] If I wanted to fly mainly tank ships, I would have trained amarr. and with the upcoming amarr DPS buff it looks like amarr now have all the cookies and gal get screwed. This is completely unacceptable, gal race is completely deviating from the roll and play style its supposed to be, due to excessive nerfs and unneeded changes. Leave us along CCP I dont even care if you dont fix all the ships you have already broken for us recently if you just stop doing it to the rest of my ships. ~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~
Pociomundo Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.02.02 18:46:00 - [82] Originally by: Markus Fox STOP WHINING!!! test it first, then complane about it... I LIKE WHAT YOU CCP HAVE DONE TO DEIMOS...awesom changes, now we have more wider fitting capabilities keep good work...nice done... and this i call not (DONT fix what aint broken!!!), i call this ENHANCEMENT... You obiously haven't grasped how the Deimos is supposed to work in pvp. It is written as the ultimate close range blaster, it's about diving in, kill or be killed in under a minute and then leaving. Not about doing some damage and injecting a beefy repair tank through an extended fight. With its sisi bonus people will fit 2 repair based rigs lowering the maximum speed of the ship further, meaning it won't be able to dive into targets like before and it's currently easily kited by many ships. The current changes make the Deimos a T2 Mission Cruiser.
jdok Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.02.02 18:50:00 - [83] this change is ridiculous, why give a gank ship a rep bonus? If you are in the situation where you need a rep bonus in a deimos you are already dead, and won't have the dps to take some clown down with you. ___________________________
Viglen Taurus Inc	Posted - 2008.02.02 18:56:00 - [84] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /Signed they keep gimping the Thorax platform, remeber the good old days when the thorax was a brand new state of the art cruiser which could control hords of drones. made me fall in love with it back then, now we lost our tank! Ever heard of ecm drones!!
Titos Polo Senseless Violence	Posted - 2008.02.02 19:03:00 - [85] Edited by: Titos Polo on 02/02/2008 19:03:43 Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed CCP made me cry like a carebear /me parks the Deimos in the hangar and turns the lights off
Saiee Do'Arn Nothing Personal Inc	Posted - 2008.02.02 19:31:00 - [86] 5 low slots is not enough. Me personnaly likes idea of capbooster, but with 5 low slots deimos is totally useless. Moving 6th hi-slot is good idea, moving low-slot - not.
Glassback Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.02 19:56:00 - [87] Adding my voice to this pointless change. G. BH Kharnubis > Need more people against the MC meanies
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2008.02.02 21:22:00 - [88] They should just come out and say they want Gallente to be the new Amarr instead of trying to hide it. Seriously.
Kodiak31415 An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.02.03 02:13:00 - [89] They're trying to turn the deimos into a command ship, something that it isn't. I see no reason to fly the Deimos in its current sisi configuration when the Astarte is avilable. _______________________________ Pleese exucse any seplling erorr's in tihs psot
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.03 03:39:00 - [90] Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 03/02/2008 03:43:31 Ok we had a discussion about the new Deimos layout on our own forum and compared notes about possible setups. You CAN fit dual rep + cap injector + ion IIs + mwd with 2 power grid rigs Thats ok, you get a good tank, 360 DPS with 2 reps, 2 eanms and 1 EXP 2 hardener according to EFT You get ok gank at 450dps with drones. Thats not bad, you only have 2k armor so you HAVE to keep repping and your cargo hold is pathetically small, especially when its full of ammo, something the sacrilege and damnation got a cargo hold buff for. A thorax with electrons and 2 damage mods + plate (no rep, gank + plate + damage control) does more DPS than this and has more effective HP though it cannot rep itself. (around 524 DPS, very cheap, no rigs, That pretty much sums it up... you cant rep a lot and effectively tank about 100dps more (EFT again, not real world) than a similarly setup brutix which will easily outdamage you. So it will do pretty well at tanking most hacs for a very short amount of time, but lets compare to a zealot in real world terms, the zealot will rip a brutix up because it is faster, but it will kill a deimos (with the buff it will kill it very, very easily) simply by keeping it at range and webbing it back when chased. Compared to a sacrilege, nanosac stays out of web range and roasts the deimos, a tanked sac will web you and keep running away, you will die because you dont have enough cap boosters and cant get closer while his missles pound you. Cerbs suck a bit unless they can dictate range, it is hard for a cerb to outrun a deimos so the new deimos would probably win with these changes. You will tank most battlecruisers but will you tank long enough to kill them with your tiny cargo hold? Gank has been nerfed to hell and back, hp buffs, t2 tank becoming the norm due to price drops, t2 ammo being nerfed, Personally I think it would be cool to try and bring gank back, give Deimos an even bigger bonus to damage, make it a scary gank machine, right now its a pretty crap one Edit: Disclaimer 1: EFT Online != EvE online Disclaimer 2: This was comparing current all gank small tank to new deimos Disclaimer 3: Jesus christ QY6 is laggy, if you dont want us to blob up, dont give us objectives (cyno jammer takedown) that need 300 people to get done.
Tchu Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.03 08:32:00 - [91] CCP leave deimos alone. It works just fine atm.
Silberstein Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.03 10:20:00 - [92] the deimos is a pure dmg dealer. if you want a "tank" for solo pvp put some (5) ecm drones in your bay. just leave the deimos as it is plz. mfg
Regio Pecunia	Posted - 2008.02.03 10:27:00 - [93] Edited by: Regio Pecunia on 03/02/2008 10:27:47 To all the guys who are whinig here. Did you ever used a Deimos? The ship is total crap atm. I like the changes. With ne the Repping Bonus you can do alot more with the ship. Atm it¦s a large gang gank ship. Nothing more. Every other HAC in Eve is better. Nice CPP i hope to see more Deimos now :)
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.03 10:52:00 - [94] Edited by: Spenz on 03/02/2008 10:52:56 double post ftl If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.03 10:52:00 - [95] Originally by: Regio Pecunia Edited by: Regio Pecunia on 03/02/2008 10:40:18 Edited by: Regio Pecunia on 03/02/2008 10:27:47 To all the guys who are whinig here. Did you ever used a Deimos? The ship is total crap atm. I like the changes. With ne the Repping Bonus you can do alot more with the ship. Atm it¦s a large gang gank ship. Nothing more. Every other HAC in Eve is better. Nice CPP i hope to see more Deimos now :) because the ships looks very nice. Have YOU ever used the deimos? In proper pvp? The deimos is a niche ship. Only those serious about using it actually use it. Most likely, the opinions you read from people who fly it are from those serious about it. Ask a serious deimos pilot if they rely on a tank. They will always say no....then laugh at you and call you a noob. You think it is nothing but a gank ship. These new changes will turn it into a half-assed tank ship that cannot tank and cannot gank. It will just be another casualty of bad game design with not enough tank, not enough gank, not enough cap, and not enough grid. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Primus Caedes	Posted - 2008.02.03 11:02:00 - [96] Originally by: Spenz Originally by: Regio Pecunia Edited by: Regio Pecunia on 03/02/2008 10:40:18 Edited by: Regio Pecunia on 03/02/2008 10:27:47 To all the guys who are whinig here. Did you ever used a Deimos? The ship is total crap atm. I like the changes. With ne the Repping Bonus you can do alot more with the ship. Atm it¦s a large gang gank ship. Nothing more. Every other HAC in Eve is better. Nice CPP i hope to see more Deimos now :) because the ships looks very nice. Have YOU ever used the deimos? In proper pvp? The deimos is a niche ship. Only those serious about using it actually use it. Most likely, the opinions you read from people who fly it are from those serious about it. Ask a serious deimos pilot if they rely on a tank. They will always say no....then laugh at you and call you a noob. You think it is nothing but a gank ship. These new changes will turn it into a half-assed tank ship that cannot tank and cannot gank. It will just be another casualty of bad game design with not enough tank, not enough gank, not enough cap, and not enough grid. Yes i use Hacs from 3 Races. Amarr Gallente and Minmatar. 90% of my Gameplay is pvp. And yes i testet the Deimos more than one time. I think the coming changes are nice. I the future. same CAP, better TANK and abit less DMG. More grid would be nice:))
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 11:34:00 - [97] Didn't you get the CCP memo??? Highest DPS is a CRIME! Gallente MUST be nerfed to insignificance for this heinous crime. Seriously Mr.Fendahl and friends, have you been with CCP for long? You're really getting on my **** with your homogenization of Gallente ships from unique 'Drones and high Damage kill quick or die' philosophy to 'Yet-Another-Tanking-Grindfest-More about how many cap 800 charges you carry-than tactics' philosophy. Gallente players like me were sold on the race as the very close range high DPS option. After 2.5 years of playing and focussing on these skills, I'm getting sick of you guys now claiming Gallente DPS is too high and systematically nerfing us devaluing those 2 years of training done: 1. Damps (fairly useless these days, even with 4 or 5 on a single target....Unlike ECM which is still the king of Ewar where 1 ship jams out a small gang!) 2. Drones (Trinity "Un-nerfing of Drone boats" <Oveur> - Reality: every other race gets drone boosts, Eos and Myrmidon get turned into poor DPS, poor drone boats) 3. Now Blasters (scripts to reduce our range so even at pointblank we'll be too far away...) and also our (only recently made servicable) Deimos by turning it into a crappy Vigilant with worse bonii. Tanking is for the Amarr. Give us back our Drones, Damps and DPS at the expense of our tanks - Do or Die is the Gallente way. Don't touch the Deimos, nothing wrong with it currently. Think more, change less. Thanks.
Spoony Brook Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.02.03 13:26:00 - [98] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Didn't you get the CCP memo??? Highest DPS is a CRIME! Gallente MUST be nerfed to insignificance for this heinous crime. Seriously Mr.Fendahl and friends, have you been with CCP for long? You're really getting on my **** with your homogenization of Gallente ships from unique 'Drones and high Damage kill quick or die' philosophy to 'Yet-Another-Tanking-Grindfest-More about how many cap 800 charges you carry-than tactics' philosophy. Gallente players like me were sold on the race as the very close range high DPS option. After 2.5 years of playing and focussing on these skills, I'm getting sick of you guys now claiming Gallente DPS is too high and systematically nerfing us devaluing those 2 years of training done: 1. Damps (fairly useless these days, even with 4 or 5 on a single target....Unlike ECM which is still the king of Ewar where 1 ship jams out a small gang!) 2. Drones (Trinity "Un-nerfing of Drone boats" <Oveur> - Reality: every other race gets drone boosts, Eos and Myrmidon get turned into poor DPS, poor drone boats) 3. Now Blasters (scripts to reduce our range so even at pointblank we'll be too far away...) and also our (only recently made servicable) Deimos by turning it into a crappy Vigilant with worse bonii. Tanking is for the Amarr. Give us back our Drones, Damps and DPS at the expense of our tanks - Do or Die is the Gallente way. Don't touch the Deimos, nothing wrong with it currently. Think more, change less. Thanks. this tbh... it took 2 years and 48 pages to get this ship to its current state, and its perfectly fine how it is (don't need another phobos thanks) ---------------
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.03 13:33:00 - [99] Originally by: Primus Caedes [Yes i use Hacs from 3 Races. Amarr Gallente and Minmatar. 90% of my Gameplay is pvp. And yes i testet the Deimos more than one time. I think the coming changes are nice. I the future. same CAP, better TANK and abit less DMG. More grid would be nice:)) eh? to do the same damage you'll need to tank EVEN LESS, and the cap is less. sure you can fit an injector and you have enough charges for 3-4 burns. after that you're a sitting duck that can't tank, can't shoot and can't move. --- planetary interaction idea!
Tillionn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.03 13:40:00 - [100] Edited by: Tillionn on 03/02/2008 13:43:46 The Deimos is just fine as it's now. I'm ok with ship bonus changes as long it gets more cap. But LEAVE the low slots alone :(, by tanking away a low slot u gimp the ship's tank/gank abilities alot. If u want to change slots layout move 1 high slot to medium, thats fine(5-4-6), but pls leave the low slots alone.
Y3R M4W	Posted - 2008.02.03 13:45:00 - [101] The problems I see are: 1) Not enough slots for a decent dual rep tank + damage, to make use of the booster. 2) With a single rep tank, it's unlikely the ship would last long enough to need a cap booster. 3) Stepping away from Cap Boosters, maybe, say, a sensor booster? Well the onnly ships that would be useful against are either too small, too fast, or do little enough dps that it doesn't matter (frigs etc). 4) Tracking Computer? Could be useful, if you haven't got a web or are flying a sniper deimos, in which case you should be taken out and shot. Not to mention powergrid issues trying to fit dual reps, or the complete lack of buffer without a plate, etc. Note: YER MAW! is Scottish for Your Mother.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.03 13:52:00 - [102] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Didn't you get the CCP memo??? Highest DPS is a CRIME! Gallente MUST be nerfed to insignificance for this heinous crime. Seriously Mr.Fendahl and friends, have you been with CCP for long? You're really getting on my **** with your homogenization of Gallente ships from unique 'Drones and high Damage kill quick or die' philosophy to 'Yet-Another-Tanking-Grindfest-More about how many cap 800 charges you carry-than tactics' philosophy. Gallente players like me were sold on the race as the very close range high DPS option. After 2.5 years of playing and focussing on these skills, I'm getting sick of you guys now claiming Gallente DPS is too high and systematically nerfing us devaluing those 2 years of training done: 1. Damps (fairly useless these days, even with 4 or 5 on a single target....Unlike ECM which is still the king of Ewar where 1 ship jams out a small gang!) 2. Drones (Trinity "Un-nerfing of Drone boats" <Oveur> - Reality: every other race gets drone boosts, Eos and Myrmidon get turned into poor DPS, poor drone boats) 3. Now Blasters (scripts to reduce our range so even at pointblank we'll be too far away...) and also our (only recently made servicable) Deimos by turning it into a crappy Vigilant with worse bonii. Tanking is for the Amarr. Give us back our Drones, Damps and DPS at the expense of our tanks - Do or Die is the Gallente way. Don't touch the Deimos, nothing wrong with it currently. Think more, change less. Thanks. Have they reduced the damage of hybrids? No They have only tried something new with deimos. Overracting? -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.03 14:05:00 - [103] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Didn't you get the CCP memo??? Highest DPS is a CRIME! Gallente MUST be nerfed to insignificance for this heinous crime. Seriously Mr.Fendahl and friends, have you been with CCP for long? You're really getting on my **** with your homogenization of Gallente ships from unique 'Drones and high Damage kill quick or die' philosophy to 'Yet-Another-Tanking-Grindfest-More about how many cap 800 charges you carry-than tactics' philosophy. Gallente players like me were sold on the race as the very close range high DPS option. After 2.5 years of playing and focussing on these skills, I'm getting sick of you guys now claiming Gallente DPS is too high and systematically nerfing us devaluing those 2 years of training done: 1. Damps (fairly useless these days, even with 4 or 5 on a single target....Unlike ECM which is still the king of Ewar where 1 ship jams out a small gang!) 2. Drones (Trinity "Un-nerfing of Drone boats" <Oveur> - Reality: every other race gets drone boosts, Eos and Myrmidon get turned into poor DPS, poor drone boats) 3. Now Blasters (scripts to reduce our range so even at pointblank we'll be too far away...) and also our (only recently made servicable) Deimos by turning it into a crappy Vigilant with worse bonii. Tanking is for the Amarr. Give us back our Drones, Damps and DPS at the expense of our tanks - Do or Die is the Gallente way. Don't touch the Deimos, nothing wrong with it currently. Think more, change less. Thanks. Have they reduced the damage of hybrids? No They have only tried something new with deimos. Overracting? something new? yes, but new doesn't mean better. --- planetary interaction idea!
Hyperviolent	Posted - 2008.02.03 14:18:00 - [104] This is just silly. After hours of EFT whoring with an immaginary med slot and an empty lowslot, i can honestly not find any setups that make use of the Deimos' new bonuses, other than the ~300 DPS electron fit. Not even with a PG rig. Moreover, the useless utillity highslot continues being useless. I don't know, maybe they were stoned and mistook the deimos for the phobos and decided to "fix" it or something? Seriosuly can't see any point in this change at all.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 15:06:00 - [105] To be honest, yes I probably am overreacting. But a feeling of being persecuted just for picking Gallente is beginning to prevail. After all - the Deimos was borked for SO long and I flew it regardless - it is the ship I enjoy flying the most and was only recently made what I'd consider very well balanced thanks to its increased speed, agility and powergrid. Yes, the 6th High is still pretty redundant on a lot of fits, but it is utility and does come in handy so I'd hate to lose it for a mid. You can downgrade to electrons and a (not energized) adaptive plating to fit a 6th weapon in the form of a Med NOS if desired. What I'm also not mentioning is that even with AWU 5, I'm sacrificing a low already to fit a RCU II just to use Heavy Neutron IIs with MWD and a slim tank. Same goes for the 3 mids. You CAN fit a cap booster if desired, but you sacrifice something else (normally DPS) to do so. Such a thing as these sacrifices make this ship balanced IMHO, where you dont have exactly everything you want, but do have several options to fit with none of those fits being imbalanced. CCP though now seem to suggest the Highest DPS fit of Neutrons and Mag Stabs is imbalanced - They seem to conveniently forget you're flying this paper thin DPS beast probably to within 3km of the enemy which means you'll be webbed, scrammed and very vulnerable to NOS/Neuts - FULLY COMMITTED TO KILL OR BEING KILLED. It is a risk Gallente HAC pilots accept and realise only too well, which is why you probably see a hell of a lot more nano-ishtars or people training Vagabonds than you get Deimos roaming round. People are not complaining about the current Deimos, so why change what is not broken? Especially when this new Deimos has so little to offer in terms of options. You're stuck with an active tank ot you're wasting the bonus. You're then pretty much forced to go with a cap booster and as such = less powergrid for guns, gimped CPU thanks to the booster and less DPS. If I wanted that fit I'd buy a Vigilant which CCP are conveniently forgetting about (again) like they did when they originally boosted the Deimos. It is less of a reason to fly this ship than a Brutix. So - overreacting? maybe, but not without good cause. Reacting to more unnecessary and negative changes from CCP to their good game.
Jade190	Posted - 2008.02.03 15:11:00 - [106] Edited by: Jade190 on 03/02/2008 15:12:03 I'm fully convinced that CCP's development team should be fired. Edit: Sorry, but you guys just made a lot of bad decisions.
Ghost Goat	Posted - 2008.02.03 15:23:00 - [107] Quote: These new changes will turn it into a half-assed tank ship that cannot tank and cannot gank. It will just be another casualty of bad game design with not enough tank, not enough gank, not enough cap, and not enough grid. QFT BOOST GALLENTE ffs ...
Hunter Vonnegut In terrorem KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 16:31:00 - [108] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss To be honest, yes I probably am overreacting. But a feeling of being persecuted just for picking Gallente is beginning to prevail. After all - the Deimos was borked for SO long and I flew it regardless - it is the ship I enjoy flying the most and was only recently made what I'd consider very well balanced thanks to its increased speed, agility and powergrid. CCP though now seem to suggest the Highest DPS fit of Neutrons and Mag Stabs is imbalanced - They seem to conveniently forget you're flying this paper thin DPS beast probably to within 3km of the enemy which means you'll be webbed, scrammed and very vulnerable to NOS/Neuts - FULLY COMMITTED TO KILL OR BEING KILLED. It is a risk Gallente HAC pilots accept and realise only too well, which is why you probably see a hell of a lot more nano-ishtars or people training Vagabonds than you get Deimos roaming round. People are not complaining about the current Deimos, so why change what is not broken? If I wanted that fit I'd buy a Vigilant which CCP are conveniently forgetting about (again) like they did when they originally boosted the Deimos. It is less of a reason to fly this ship than a Brutix. So - overreacting? maybe, but not without good cause. Reacting to more unnecessary and negative changes from CCP to their good game. QFT!!!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.03 16:38:00 - [109] Originally by: Grimpak Have they reduced the damage of hybrids? No They have only tried something new with deimos. Overracting? something new? yes, but new doesn't mean better. I didnt claim that the change was good. But Im sure ccp is trying to BOOST it and not NERF it. Deimos needs a little tweak, too many ppl flying ishtars. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Hyperviolent	Posted - 2008.02.03 17:32:00 - [110] Lyria, you are a great amarr pilot, i enjoy your videos alot. But you do not know anything about Gallente, and/or the Deimos and Ishtar in particular. Ishtar, with the same amount of lows as the new Deimos, does and will continue performing better both tank- and DPS-wise. Ishtar depends on its drones doing the damage, and either speed or a mix of EW, neuts and tank to stay afloat. Deimos, can't field any decent tank neither with 3 mids 6 lows nor with 4 mids 5 lows and a rep bonus. It has a useless highslot wich was previously used for nos, much like your zealot, only with less room to actualy fit one. What it has got, is the great damage potential, enough lows and pg for a weak buffer tank, and an mwd bonus to keep its fragile cap through the fight. The new deimos fitted with that seemingly appealing cap booster can neither fit any buffer with gank setup, nor any efficient tank even when completely neglecting damage. Making deimos a crappy mix of tank and gank will in no way make people fly it over the ishtar.
Hunter Vonnegut In terrorem KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.03 17:34:00 - [111] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I didnt claim that the change was good. But Im sure ccp is trying to BOOST it and not NERF it. Deimos needs a little tweak, too many ppl flying ishtars. More people are flying ishtars because they are the more viable nano ship of the two, and there is nothing CCP can do (outside of making blasters viable outside of webrange) to change that.
Rob Erachar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.03 18:12:00 - [112] Would it really be overpowered to instead change a high slot to a medium slot? Suggestion: keep the bonus change to a rep amount and the cap increase bonus while giving it a: 5/4/6 slot layout. Hypothetical Setup: High: 5x Heavy Ion Blaster 2s Medium: 1x 10MN MWD 1x Fleeting Web 1x Warp Disruptor 2 1x Medium Electrochemical Cap Booster Low: 1x Medium Armor Rep 2 1x Explosive Hardner 2 1x Internal Force Field Array 3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer 2s Comments: It still ganks well and it tanks a bit better to compete more with a zealot. Originally by: AceonfireAlso, "do not expect to make any money from killing GOONS. When I tried to tractor beam one of their wrecks, a message box popped up and asked me if I was serious."
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.03 18:16:00 - [113] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I didnt claim that the change was good. But Im sure ccp is trying to BOOST it and not NERF it. Deimos needs a little tweak, too many ppl flying ishtars. More people are flying ishtars because they are the more viable nano ship of the two, and there is nothing CCP can do (outside of making blasters viable outside of webrange) to change that. But the key in nano gangs are ganking stuff, not to fight equally powerful fleets/gangs. Wich means the key in having a nano viable ship is that it is fast and has less to do with operating ranges around webs. I still dont quite understand why gallente doesnt want this change. Doesnt it tank better now with good gank too? Ofc they would have to make it viable to fit cap booster, mwd, web, scram. I dont get it, why is the old deimos better? -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.03 18:37:00 - [114] Edited by: Grimpak on 03/02/2008 18:40:26 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut Originally by: Lyria Skydancer I didnt claim that the change was good. But Im sure ccp is trying to BOOST it and not NERF it. Deimos needs a little tweak, too many ppl flying ishtars. More people are flying ishtars because they are the more viable nano ship of the two, and there is nothing CCP can do (outside of making blasters viable outside of webrange) to change that. But the key in nano gangs are ganking stuff, not to fight equally powerful fleets/gangs. Wich means the key in having a nano viable ship is that it is fast and has less to do with operating ranges around webs. I still dont quite understand why gallente doesnt want this change. Doesnt it tank better now with good gank too? Ofc they would have to make it viable to fit cap booster, mwd, web, scram. I dont get it, why is the old deimos better? adapting the old gank deimos setup (3 MFS + neutrons) to the new deimos slot layout: you end up with: - no grid left to fit an injector AND MAR; - 2 slots to buffer tank the ship; - even less cap to work with; the only good thing that will happen when transiting the old gank deimos to the new gank deimos is: - second web, or second warp jammer. this means that: - now I have to fit injector -> neutrons no longer fit, go to ions. - now I need to slap an armor repper so that I can hold out a bit longer, since my DPS tank is gone -> still enough grid to play with ions. can't fit jack on that 6th highslot tho. - I notice that even with the rep bonus, it's not enough to tank since I am at nearly half armor when the repper FINALLY kicks in, so I better slap some more tanking mods -> together with the DCU, MAR, and expl hardener (3 slots out of 5 occupied already), I slap an EANM II and a 800mm plate. I can't no longer fit ions here, downgrade to electrons. - to maintain tank I need cap charges. my cargo has space for 8 charges and 1000 units of ammo -> I cannot carry a FULL LOAD of ammo, either null or AM/void here, since I have the cargo crammed with enough charges for 1 or 2 fights, wich are longer now since I'll be doing damage in the order of the 300dps with faction AM (or less) from guns alone now. I could pack damage drones there, but why sacrificing even more tank now that my main source of DPS is gone? the deimos as it is is fine. it's not as popular as the ishtar, but that's just because you need balls to fly a deimos. the ship needs to operate inside the range of MANY things, like neuts, nos'es, drones, smartbombs, webs, warp jammers, ECM bursts, all the kind of guns that can track this big target that is webbed, painted, jammed, warpjammed and stuff. people want a ship that survives, they go for any other number of ships available, including a nano-ishtar. people want a ship that the biggest requirement is BALLS, they go to the deimos, wich is a hell lot of more fun to fly. oh and rigs weren't taken into consideration, because they shouldn't be use to balance ships. --- planetary interaction idea!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.03 18:41:00 - [115] But the deimos change isnt set in stone. I minor pg tweak would fix it by the looks of it and make it as useful and popular as the ishtar. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.03 18:45:00 - [116] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer But the deimos change isnt set in stone. I minor pg tweak would fix it by the looks of it and make it as useful and popular as the ishtar. one minor PG tweak wouldn't cover the fact that we lost a low-slot and cap, specially when the purpose of the tweak was to increase the tank, wich was already fine enough in the gank fit. after this change tbh, I think we'll start to see people nano-ing out the deimos and atempt to do the same thing as the vagabond. afterall, it will end up with the EXACT same slot layout, bar dronebay and launcher. --- planetary interaction idea!
Kodiak31415 An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.02.03 19:36:00 - [117] The new Deimos: Tech 1.5 Thorax If you're going to force us to use active tanks at least don't nerf them by pulling the low slot. _______________________________ Pleese exucse any seplling erorr's in tihs psot
Leviathan9 Gallente Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.03 19:57:00 - [118] CCP are you high? First you nerf damps and render gal Recons as useless... now your going after our HACs and killing the Deimos???? Fix that ****. I complete disagree with this change. ----------------------------
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.03 21:37:00 - [119] Edited by: Vanessa Vale on 03/02/2008 21:38:16 Originally by: Sorien Marutor I don't like this change at all! I guess now that Lachesis, Arazu, Deimos, Eos, Nosdomi and Ishtar are nerfed (some of them to death) i need to train the close to overpowered Minmatar. Close to overpowered? Is this some sort of cruel joke? Let me see. # Heat web pseudonerf? Check. # Damp nerf? Check. # Sensor booster nerf? Check. # Drone nerf? Double check. Anything else? Oh, yes, wait. # Even more webs affecting their main advantage? Check. # Reduced LSE effectivity? Check. # Incoming -50% falloff nerf? Check. # Useless speed "bonus" on non small ships? Check. # Outranged and outalphaed on long range? Check. # Lame ships? rummages Yes, got a bunch. Check. Overpowered?
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.03 22:58:00 - [120] Here's an idea: change the armor rep bonus to 5% armor resists/level. Replace the 6th low, move the useless 6th high to a mid. Rebalance grid/cpu to match new layout. That is how to fix the Deimos, not a nerf that nobody wants. An injector is better than the MWD cap bonus, and a resist bonus is the one that is actually useful for a plate tank like the Deimos normally uses. Make these changes, and nobody will ever be allowed to complain about the Deimos again.
Darth Natus Dark Tornado Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.02.03 23:58:00 - [121] CCP the deimos is fine left as it is (on TQ),if u are really serious about beefing its tank a bit, the best realistic thing u can do, is just boost its base armor hp. But tbh, just leave it alone its fine as it is.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.04 00:39:00 - [122] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Here's an idea: change the armor rep bonus to 5% armor resists/level. Replace the 6th low, move the useless 6th high to a mid. Rebalance grid/cpu to match new layout. That is how to fix the Deimos, not a nerf that nobody wants. An injector is better than the MWD cap bonus, and a resist bonus is the one that is actually useful for a plate tank like the Deimos normally uses. Make these changes, and nobody will ever be allowed to complain about the Deimos again. 5/4/6 resist/damage damage/falloff Overpowered Maybe 6/4/5 resist/damage damage/falloff or 5/4/6 damage/cap damage/falloff But not 6 slots and a tanking bonus and 4 meds.
Amelie MCMXC Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.02.04 01:19:00 - [123] "Wise" CCP wastes their time doing crap changes with ships which are ok, while this game doesnt work Evil Lags in fleet, hours of roaming to have 5-10 min battle etc
Volucer S Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.04 01:27:00 - [124] Originally by: Amelie MCMXC "Wise" CCP wastes their time doing crap changes with ships which are ok, while this game doesnt work Evil Lags in fleet, hours of roaming to have 5-10 min battle etc Signed
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.04 01:40:00 - [125] Edited by: Gamesguy on 04/02/2008 01:40:25 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Here's an idea: change the armor rep bonus to 5% armor resists/level. Replace the 6th low, move the useless 6th high to a mid. Rebalance grid/cpu to match new layout. That is how to fix the Deimos, not a nerf that nobody wants. An injector is better than the MWD cap bonus, and a resist bonus is the one that is actually useful for a plate tank like the Deimos normally uses. Make these changes, and nobody will ever be allowed to complain about the Deimos again. 5/4/6 deimos with a resist bonus would be a sacriledge that tanks better, ganks better, etc. No way is that gonna fly.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.04 01:40:00 - [126] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 04/02/2008 01:42:59 Originally by: Goumindong But not 6 slots and a tanking bonus and 4 meds. Honestly, I don't really care too strongly about that proposal. Personally, I'd find 5/4/6 with damage/cap/damage/falloff a perfectly acceptable ship. What I was trying to do is accomplish the two stated things that CCP wants for the Deimos, without completely destroying the ship: 1) Tank bonus. 2) 4th mid slot. In the case of the tank bonus, an active tank on any HAC is kind of questionable, but it's even more pointless on a do-or-die gank ship that will end the fight one way or another long before a rep can catch up to a plate. So the only useful tank bonus is 5% resist/level. In the case of the 4th mid, cutting a low to "increase tank" is entirely counter-productive. The useless high slot (does anyone ever fit anything here anyway?) is the only thing left to switch. So really, it's a case of being the only acceptable solution, given what CCP wants to do with the ship. I'm not sure the ship really needs those two changes, but if they have to be done, my suggestion is the only way that doesn't end up nerfing the ship. Originally by: Gamesguy 5/4/6 deimos with a resist bonus would be a sacriledge that tanks better, ganks better, etc. No way is that gonna fly. In case you didn't notice, the Deimos is a gunboat, while the Sacrilege is a missile ship. You can't just line up the EFT graphs to compare the ships. There's a huge difference between a long-range (for a short-range gank ship, at least) ship with cap-free, tracking-free weapons and excellent speed tanking potential and a point-blank-only gunboat that kills its own cap very quickly even without trying to run an active tank.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.04 03:04:00 - [127] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Bunch of stuff about the deimos a 5/4/6 deimos might be a bit much, but im not sure. Maybe leave it 6/3/6 and then tweak its fittings, cap, speed, or armor/structure size if there is a problem with the performance of the ship.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.04 03:44:00 - [128] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 04/02/2008 03:45:02 Originally by: Goumindong a 5/4/6 deimos might be a bit much, but im not sure. Maybe leave it 6/3/6 and then tweak its fittings, cap, speed, or armor/structure size if there is a problem with the performance of the ship. The real problem here is there isn't a problem with the performance of the ship. The only "problem" is with its intended role: do-or-die point-blank gank ship. If the Deimos doesn't work, it's because that role is broken and no amount of changes will make the concept work (well, other than making it cheaper than the Brutix). 5/4/6 is about the only way to actually improve the ship in any meaningful way. Dropping the cap bonus for a resist bonus (NOT a fundamentally broken active tank bonus) is kind of a neutral change, either one of those bonuses is good for the ship, the only question is which one people would rather have. As much as I might like some of the changes this patch, changing the Deimos at all is really just change for the sake of having change. I've tried to come up with something that accomplishes CCP's goals for the ship without breaking it, but really, why bother?
Tarron Sarek Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.02.04 04:48:00 - [129] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 04/02/2008 04:50:49 Armor resist bonus? Are you insane? Are you people really trying to balance just for balance sake? Armor resist bonus is an Amarr bonus, and I won't take it on a Gallente ship. It's a fine bonus, it's a great bonus, and it's arguably better in many cases than a repair bonus, but I don't want it, because I want ships to be different. No frickin big drone bays on Amarr ships, no armor resist bonus on Gallente ships. Yeah I know, the Hactors all got their resist bonus, but at least that's a class trait. Isn't it possible to balance things while keeping them unique? If that's not 100% possible, I'd rather live with it and adapt. If CCP really wants to boost the Deimos' defense, give it more grid to fit a Nos or plate. No Amarrization or mini Brutix, please. ___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - Please stop using the word 'nerf' Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters
Amos Sommers Gallente The Order of Chivalry Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.02.04 05:12:00 - [130] Here I was thinking about buying Deimos and this comes along. Nice move CCP, way to screw up a ship.. EVE of War.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.04 06:29:00 - [131] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 04/02/2008 06:32:00 Originally by: Tarron Sarek Armor resist bonus? Are you insane? Are you people really trying to balance just for balance sake? Yes, that's exactly what is going on. Someone at CCP has decided that the Deimos needs two things: 1) A 4th mid for a cap injector. 2) A tank bonus. Given these requirements and the Deimos' role as a point-blank do-or-die gank ship, there is only one option that works: 5/4/6 with damage/resist/damage/falloff. Anything else is a nerf to the ship. Moving a low to a mid nerfs the tank you're trying to increase, and an active repair bonus is just completely useless to the ship's role (and in fact worse than useless, since it replaces a perfectly good cap bonus). So if we absolutely must have these changes, my proposal is the only halfway sane option.
Air Scare Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.02.04 06:47:00 - [132] This is not a good change. Im actually pretty upset that this is even being considered. But alas, I want my opinion to matter so I wont go off on a tangent about lack of logic surrounding this change. Theres no reason. Show me one whine/nerf/complain thread about the Deimos since it was changed. There arent any because people are happy. The eve community and paying customers are completely content with the way the deimos is. Where did this idea come from? Please? Where? Theres absolutely no reason behind it. Bring it "in-line" with the other HAC's? What happened to diversity. Who ever said that each race had to have a "tanking ship" and a "gank ship"? Your killing playstyles. And the list of ships that work with the kill-or-be killed mentality is very thin. Why remove that? By stating "adding a 4th slot to accomodate a cap-booster" you are admitting that you are making a change that will completely destroy any variety to the ship. You are putting into the cookie cutter mwd/web/scram/capbooster category....along with 90% of the other pvp ships out there. The fact is, this change is un-necessary, out of the blue, illogical, and plain out stupid. Do not let this get to Tranq.
Trind2222 Amarr Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.04 09:15:00 - [133] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed
Lelulie Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.02.04 10:22:00 - [134] If CCP don't feel that the Deimos can currently stand up to the Sacriledge in close combat and the upcoming Zealot dps buff then a buff of sorts is warranted for the Deimos. It's never going to get more damage, with a high skilled Neutron setup and Hammerhead II's you can currently hit just over 700 dps, any more would be Astarte levels, so what's left for a HAC is it's tanking ability. Gallente tank augmentation revolves around the 7.5% repper amount bonus. However taking away a low slot and adding a tanking bonus to a ship that you want to burn capacitor at a fast rate, repairing, MWDing and using blasters in a fast burst fight isn't going to work. Cap charges are a limited resource in the ship, it will still have to MWD to targets and hope to get a web. The ship needs to keep its 6 lows, the 6th high slot however isn't as much use, most setups can't fit anything over a small nos anyway which gives a pitiful increase in capacitor gain every cycle for the Deimos. So: 5 High 4 Med 6 Low 5% Damage / 7.5% Armour Rep per Gallente Cruiser. 5% Damage / 10% Falloff per HAC level. You can still choose between Electrons and Tank, Neutrons and gank or try to balance your damage and tank, but you can't have your cake and eat it. Many variations will be possible however the ship will still be grid and CPU limited in having both. ------------------------------------
Daan Sai HAZCON Inc	Posted - 2008.02.04 11:52:00 - [135] Originally by: Goumindong .... Maybe leave it 6/3/6 and then tweak its fittings, cap, speed, or armor/structure size if there is a problem with the performance of the ship. /this! Deimos isn't a 1v1 solo HAC, its a gang ship for brave pilots. It is a thorax on steroids. If a Deimos sees a Zealot, it doesn't engage, it runs to get it's mates, and several Deimos feed on Zealot... Please don't homogenize the Deimos to have to use a universal 1v1 PvP 4 mid-slot fit with cap injectors (it has no room for anyways).
Lilian Imp	Posted - 2008.02.04 12:47:00 - [136] No more solo pvp grindfest ships please. Leave us some gang damage specialists. Quote: Hey, teacher, leave those kids alone!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.04 14:26:00 - [137] Originally by: Lelulie If CCP don't feel that the Deimos can currently stand up to the Sacriledge in close combat and the upcoming Zealot dps buff then a buff of sorts is warranted for the Deimos. No its not. Put ecm-drones in deimos bay and youll be step-dancing all over sacrilege and zealot. Deimos doesnt need to be the next overpowered gallente pimp mobile. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
rafaman Unsafe Flying Ops	Posted - 2008.02.04 14:42:00 - [138] This is starting to get ridiculous. First Myr and EOS, now Deimos. I've spent a LOT of time training HAC and training drones. I'm now about to get HAC level 5. Thats over 1 month of my skill time to maximize a ship on the bonus that the ship had. Guns and MWD!! Now CCP changes the ship completly?! WTF x 2? And CCP does not seems to care about player opinions, judging from the participation on these type of threads. Perhaps CCP thinks its gallente players that are causing all the lag in Jita and decided to make our life as hard as possible so we can... leave the game eventually? :) Deimos was a fine ship before this change. Now we HAC pilots will have to learn how to use it again and worst... I dont think that this ship is viable for the type of gameplay we all used it for. Come in fast, do as much damage possible, kill or get killed. Now we have less cap with MWD fitted and more PG and more CAP intensive ship... that remains with a useless high slot. Nice going CCP. Thank you very much.
Lelulie Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.02.04 14:57:00 - [139] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Lelulie If CCP don't feel that the Deimos can currently stand up to the Sacriledge in close combat and the upcoming Zealot dps buff then a buff of sorts is warranted for the Deimos. No its not. Put ecm-drones in deimos bay and youll be step-dancing all over sacrilege and zealot. Deimos doesnt need to be the next overpowered gallente pimp mobile. Well you aren't a dev, they believe it needs some help in fighting the new breed of close combat HACs, the ship shouldn't need to rely on ECM drones which are currently overpowered in order to win fights. Hence the ship is being augmented to improve it, which is currently the tanking buff. ------------------------------------
Hunter Vonnegut In terrorem KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.04 15:10:00 - [140] Edited by: Hunter Vonnegut on 04/02/2008 15:10:13 Originally by: Lelulie Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Lelulie If CCP don't feel that the Deimos can currently stand up to the Sacriledge in close combat and the upcoming Zealot dps buff then a buff of sorts is warranted for the Deimos. No its not. Put ecm-drones in deimos bay and youll be step-dancing all over sacrilege and zealot. Deimos doesnt need to be the next overpowered gallente pimp mobile. Well you aren't a dev, they believe it needs some help in fighting the new breed of close combat HACs, the ship shouldn't need to rely on ECM drones which are currently overpowered in order to win fights. Hence the ship is being augmented to improve it, which is currently the tanking buff. LOL, the deimos does not need to compete with other close combat hacs, the deimos is the only close combat hac there is.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.04 15:18:00 - [141] Originally by: Lelulie Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Lelulie If CCP don't feel that the Deimos can currently stand up to the Sacriledge in close combat and the upcoming Zealot dps buff then a buff of sorts is warranted for the Deimos. No its not. Put ecm-drones in deimos bay and youll be step-dancing all over sacrilege and zealot. Deimos doesnt need to be the next overpowered gallente pimp mobile. Well you aren't a dev, they believe it needs some help in fighting the new breed of close combat HACs, the ship shouldn't need to rely on ECM drones which are currently overpowered in order to win fights. Hence the ship is being augmented to improve it, which is currently the tanking buff. Well thats funny. Just a week ago when ecm-drone threads were up many gallente were against a nerf of these overpowered drones, same people that now ignore the application on the deimos and want an even further boost to it. You cant both have ecm-drones + a super boosted deimos. No pimp mobile for you until ecm-drones are fixed. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Praetor Novak Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.04 16:18:00 - [142] Dear CCP ship balancing Demigods, This is totally ridiculous and entirely unacceptable. IÆve flown the Deimos now for long enough to know this ship has been tweaked by the hand of God (CCP) so many times all us Deimos pilots are going schizophrenic bi-polar because every time we climb in our beloved ship itÆs a different ship! Riddle me this CCP: How many times has the Deimos been screwed with? How many times have you ôimprovedö this Close Range Gallente Blaster Sled? I have my Deimos perfectly balanced the way I like it finally, this time. I know it inside and out and exactly what itÆs flight/combat envelope is and what itÆs engage/do not engage rules are. CCP û pull your heads out and balance your brain NOT this ship, again, again, againà The best defense is a strong offense û this ship is hair-on-fire, balls-to-the-wall, kamikaze, in-your-face, kill-or-be-killed û DPS Tank û Period. Replacing the MWD bonus for an armor tanking resist bonus while at the same time removing a low slot is really really dumb. More capacitor û oh yay û so what?! I realize that with proper skills (i.e. maxed out Nav and Cap/Grid), the proper implants, boosters and heat you can do the impossible with this ship, however for newer EVE Deimos pilots it will be very difficult for them to fight and not get screwed closing the distance gap to deliver their DPS. Or they will fit a tank so heavy itÆs ability to be a part of a gang as the DPS delivering ganking gunship it was designed to be will be moot, null and void. Warning to new Gallente would-be HAC pilots û Max your Drone skills buy an Ishtar and Nano it out! Flying an armor Tank centric Deimos is going to be tricky at best, deadly at worst without the proper skills and experience. Thanks again CCP û we will all bend over now.
Titos Polo Senseless Violence	Posted - 2008.02.04 16:34:00 - [143] ^^ /signed
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.04 18:12:00 - [144] Edited by: Spenz on 04/02/2008 18:12:09 Try fitting it out. There is no good setup for either tank or gank with the new deimos. If you gank fit it, you lose tank, lose a hybrid rig for another pg rig, lose cap due to MWD, lose damage, lose ammo (for the cap boosters), and you don't use a bonus. All these downsides just to keep a pathetic semblance of the old deimos. If you tank fit it, you can only fit electrons (unless you use rigs, then you get ions whoop), all while tanking around what, 150 dps more? You cap goes faster and no amount of cap boosters will save you from draining your cap with ions, a repper, tackle gear, and a MWD. The new deimos is one big catch-22. Whatever you do, you lose. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
sdthujfg	Posted - 2008.02.04 18:18:00 - [145] Originally by: Spenz Edited by: Spenz on 04/02/2008 18:12:09 Try fitting it out. There is no good setup for either tank or gank with the new deimos. If you gank fit it, you lose tank, lose a hybrid rig for another pg rig, lose cap due to MWD, lose damage, lose ammo (for the cap boosters), and you don't use a bonus. All these downsides just to keep a pathetic semblance of the old deimos. If you tank fit it, you can only fit electrons (unless you use rigs, then you get ions whoop), all while tanking around what, 150 dps more? You cap goes faster and no amount of cap boosters will save you from draining your cap with ions, a repper, tackle gear, and a MWD. The new deimos is one big catch-22. Whatever you do, you lose. Cross-train amarr.
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.04 18:21:00 - [146] Originally by: sdthujfg Cross-train amarr. Ironically that is what I'm doing. I am training up for damnation because the eos is so useless, I want to fly a fleet command ship that is actually USEFUL in its role. I guess now I should train for more than just the damnation. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Arcord Gallente Rytiri Lva	Posted - 2008.02.04 18:52:00 - [147] Edited by: Arcord on 04/02/2008 18:52:53 Originally by: Spenz Originally by: sdthujfg Cross-train amarr. Ironically that is what I'm doing. I am training up for damnation because the eos is so useless, I want to fly a fleet command ship that is actually USEFUL in its role. I guess now I should train for more than just the damnation. lol i am doing just the same thing but back to the topic... i cant say whether it was better before or now, after the change i just flu it couple times on sisi and it didnt perform that bad... right now its a completely different ship then what it used to be, i came up with imo pretty decent setup which is quite frankly nowhere close to what i had before...its obvious that there has to be some other change to make this ship flyable... the slot layout 5/4/6 sounds awesome, noone really uses the 6th high...but with current bonuses that would make honestly the ship way overpowered...so change the armor tanking bonus for resist bonus/armor HP bonus and then this ship would be just awesome but not overpowered... or leave it the way it was before...was just fine
Nianda SeCann	Posted - 2008.02.04 19:24:00 - [148] Originally by: Praetor Novak ...IÆve flown the Deimos now for long enough to know this ship has been tweaked by the hand of God (CCP) so many times all us Deimos pilots are going schizophrenic bi-polar because every time we climb in our beloved ship itÆs a different ship!..... This made me laugh , it's what I do everytime I go on SiSi nowadays. The Trin update to the deimos was welcome, it felt good to have suffered so long with fitting woes. This new change has left me puzzled as to how to fit. As someone else said it will make a nice little mission ship, but that just seems.. well.. WRONG. I will continue to try different set-ups on the current test build, but I can say that trying to close the distance with a AB hurts Please CCP explore some more deimos ideas rather than this one, or even better leave it as you saw fit with the Trin patch.
Aem White-Noise	Posted - 2008.02.04 19:28:00 - [149] Gallente whining as per norm. Live with it... end of story. I had to adapt to the nano nerf, I had to adapt to the nos nerf, I had to adapt to the td/sd nerf, SO CAN YOU. What we doing tonight Brain? Same thing we do everynight Pinky. *Trying to NERF Eve.*
Nianda SeCann	Posted - 2008.02.04 19:46:00 - [150] Originally by: Aem Gallente whining as per norm. Live with it... end of story. I had to adapt to the nano nerf, I had to adapt to the nos nerf, I had to adapt to the td/sd nerf, SO CAN YOU. well it worked for you amarr ppls, and everyone had to adapt to the mods you mentioned
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:11:00 - [151] Originally by: Aem Gallente whining as per norm. Live with it... end of story. I had to adapt to the nano nerf, I had to adapt to the nos nerf, I had to adapt to the td/sd nerf, SO CAN YOU. if the changes go live, I've already prepared myself for it: Quote: Amarr Cruiser / Rank 5 / SP: 443953 of 1280000 +Currently training to: level 5 +Time left: 7 days, 22 hours, 6 minutes, 4 seconds +SP done: 465920 of 836047 --- planetary interaction idea!
Steph Wing Gallente The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.04 20:51:00 - [152] The quote in my sig applies to the Deimos. Seriously, CCP, we appreciate you trying to perfect this game, but put a little more thought into how ship tweaks affect the ship being tweaked. I think I speak for a lot of people, though, when I express gratitude that this change was made first on Sisi, rather than deployed as a stealth nerf to TQ. --- About TGRAD
Volucer S Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:23:00 - [153] Originally by: Aem Gallente whining as per norm. Live with it... end of story. I had to adapt to the nano nerf, I had to adapt to the nos nerf, I had to adapt to the td/sd nerf, SO CAN YOU. CCP constantly nerfs Gallente- Nano nerf, EANM nerf, Nosferatu nerf, Drone shield recharge nerf, Drone Bandwith nerf, etc etc, boosting other races.
sdthujfg	Posted - 2008.02.04 21:29:00 - [154] Originally by: Volucer S Originally by: Aem Gallente whining as per norm. Live with it... end of story. I had to adapt to the nano nerf, I had to adapt to the nos nerf, I had to adapt to the td/sd nerf, SO CAN YOU. CCP constantly nerfs Gallente- Nano nerf, EANM nerf, Nosferatu nerf, Drone shield recharge nerf, Drone Bandwith nerf, etc etc, boosting other races. The shoe is now on the other foot.... ...the tables have turned....aww i dont have anymore.
Daan Sai HAZCON Inc	Posted - 2008.02.05 03:42:00 - [155] Originally by: Aem Gallente whining as per norm. Live with it... end of story. I had to adapt to the nano nerf, I had to adapt to the nos nerf, I had to adapt to the td/sd nerf, SO CAN YOU. Note, the big difference here is that many people don't want a nominal *buff* ( its not supposed to be a nerf, but views differ there), but simply to be left alone. Even if the Zealot is boosted. Everyone agrees the Amarr ships needed improvement, and I say great. Everyone had views on the nano/nos nerfs. But here I see a lot of "aint broke!" and "don't care if we lose 1v1 - Deimos has weaknesses, but that's it's attraction!" The real pity is that it is stealing the Amarr boost thunder a bit (count the posts). [ I love the Amarr boost btw, and think a little more pg/cpu is probably needed still to make fitting possible to less than 'all V skills' characters. ]
Selnix Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.02.05 06:39:00 - [156] If the really does supposedly need that mid, give us more grid so we can use it since we already have to use grid rigs if we want to fit Neutrons. If that mid is supposed to support the tank on the ship, don't remove a tanking slot, remove the cloaking/salvaging/empty hi slot. IF it needs change, change it to: 5 Highs 4 Meds 6 Lows - MWD cap bonus + Rep bonus + grid to fit that gorram med injector that you insist we need so much While you're at it, why not put that MWD bonus where it should really be? Drop the 5% per level bonus to medium hybrid damage on the Ishtar and give it the MWD cap use bonus, because that change actually improves a ship instead of screwing up pretty much every kit people have trained up to use.
Heelay Ashrum Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies	Posted - 2008.02.05 09:15:00 - [157] So the cost of a 4th medium is to loose 1 ( of the 6 ) low slots? What's all this whine? Do you realy dont understand what this is u bust and not a nerf?!? a cap injector is a huge bust (powercore permitting), and for those that realy say that they dont need it,.. well put a damp/ecs burst/what the hell u will . There is a lot of nasty things u can do with a med slot.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.05 09:56:00 - [158] Originally by: Heelay Ashrum So the cost of a 4th medium is to loose 1 ( of the 6 ) low slots? What's all this whine? Do you realy dont understand what this is u bust and not a nerf?!? a cap injector is a huge bust (powercore permitting), and for those that realy say that they dont need it,.. well put a damp/ecs burst/what the hell u will . There is a lot of nasty things u can do with a med slot. indeed, the deimos will be busted by this change jokes aside, have you ever flown one? --- planetary interaction idea!
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 10:11:00 - [159] If you really want to boost the Deimos. Give it more powergrid. I've got maxed fitting skills but am short of 74.9 grid when it comes to fitting an 800mm plate in the following setup (despite having an RCU II fitted!). 50, 75 or 100 grid more would be plenty. High> 5 Heavy Neutron II, Salvager I Med> 10MN MWD II, x5 web, warp disrupt I Low> MAR II, EANM II, DCU II, Explo Hard II, RCU II (Free slot, 125.1 grid spare) This setup is cap stable for a good 2 minutes+ with perfect cap skills. All the below are for a Neutron II fit with an RCU II (A fair sacrifice IMHO for the extra DPS of Neutrons) The above with an 800mm Rolled Tungsten plate which cannot fit currently it would have 5175 armour hp at pretty good resists, but is short 74.9 grid. With a 400mm plate which does fit it has 3675 hp (titanium plate)with roughly 95 grid spare). With a boost of 50 more grid - you could fit Neutron IIs, Medium NOS/Neutralizer AND MAR II without a plate (still using an RCU II). For Passive tanks: (Still Neutron IIs and RCU II) 100 grid more and you could fit 2x 800mm RT plates for a maximum viable 7800 hp passive tank with 3 slots for probably Explo hard II, DCU II and a Mag Stab II (or EANM II). 200 grid more makes a 1600mm RT plate possible so steer clear of this please. So there we have a little round up of possible changes to grid that would significantly boost the current Deimos tanking without changing its Modus Operundae. My personal preference would be the additional 50 powergrid only. This would let me fly the full gank Med NOS, 5 Neutron IIs, 3 Mag stabs, DCU II, MAR II. Relying on getting in close and your enemies cap for your own meager damage controlling repairs while you melt them. Thats proper do or die, none of this sustainable dual bonussed rep nonsense. Hope this helps - Thanks.
Hunter Vonnegut In terrorem KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 11:41:00 - [160] Edited by: Hunter Vonnegut on 05/02/2008 11:44:46 slight derail: I don't understand where all this plate talk is coming from, when you plate deimos you are losing all your speed and agility and in a sense creating a half-ssed brutix. I have always run mine with a repper and it has done just fine. anyways, if there is a change that can be made to the deimos, either add a small bit of CPU to make that 6th slot usable or just remove it completely. OR BETTER YET JUST LEAVE IT ALONE*
Selnix Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:30:00 - [161] Originally by: Heelay Ashrum So the cost of a 4th medium is to loose 1 ( of the 6 ) low slots? What's all this whine? Do you realy dont understand what this is u bust and not a nerf?!? a cap injector is a huge bust (powercore permitting), and for those that realy say that they dont need it,.. well put a damp/ecs burst/what the hell u will . There is a lot of nasty things u can do with a med slot. Just a guess here that you mean bust=BOOST... In its current state on Singularity, the Deimos requires two powergrid rigs and a best named or faction mwd to be able to fit a Neutron kit with Med injector and MAR II, unplated and now short one Mag Stab II. Will it out-tank the old slot/bonus arrangement deimos? Yes, but only until it runs out of cap booster charges. It has enough cargo space for 8 counting the one in the booster. That isn't very much when you DEPEND on them to be able to shoot and tank. If you have to burn your MWD getting to a target or away from trouble, there go some of your charges. Without the MWD bonus, your capacitor regen fails to do any good and you really do need a CCC or some Nanobot rigs to help you capacitor-wise but you can't fit them if you want a neutron kit. We can probably live with the new slot setup but CCP needs to give her more grid so the cap booster and the 6th high slot can be used. On the Derail side of things... 25% MWD bonus from Deimos should replace the 5% hybrid bonus on Ishtar. Eagle is in dire need of more grid for the 5th launcher unless you use it as an underpowered, pre-slot change Deimos and go all gank and hope you live long enough.
Aravel Thon	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:40:00 - [162] Originally by: Selnix 25% MWD bonus from Deimos should replace the 5% hybrid bonus on Ishtar. Eagle is in dire need of more grid for the 5th launcher unless you use it as an underpowered, pre-slot change Deimos and go all gank and hope you live long enough.[/quote WTB eagle with 5 launchers (actually given the bonii, i wouldnt)
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:10:00 - [163] With this change, the Deimos can have a tank like the Sacrilege while doing 140 dps more. The downside is that it has to get in web range every time. Sounds fine to me.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:33:00 - [164] Originally by: Kruel With this change, the Deimos can have a tank like the Sacrilege while doing 140 dps more. The downside is that it has to get in web range every time. Sounds fine to me. huh? how? the sacriledge has more armor, more cap (that it's even boosted even more by the HAC skill), and the resist bonus, wich boosts an armor where the resit hole is thermal at 35%, is much better for tanking. and yes, it has to get in web range every time. 3km away from the target. the sacriledge, even if the new deimos warped out on top of it, would tear a new one on the deimos, because if it's fitted for gank, the sacri only has to outlast him for time enough, and if it's fitted for tank, specially in the new setup, would run out of ammo and cap charges before it could even dent a dual MAR sacri's armor, nevermind the fact that it doesn't need to worry about the range of the target like the deimos has. --- planetary interaction idea!
Fifi LeFume Griefers Inc. Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.05 20:57:00 - [165] Originally by: Kruel With this change, the Deimos can have a tank like the Sacrilege while doing 140 dps more. The downside is that it has to get in web range every time. Sounds fine to me. You sir, are one funny funny achuran. You should have your own standup comedy show
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:30:00 - [166] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Kruel With this change, the Deimos can have a tank like the Sacrilege while doing 140 dps more. The downside is that it has to get in web range every time. Sounds fine to me. huh? how? Maybe you forgot the part where Deimos gets a 7.5% rep amount per lvl now? Not quite as good as the Sac's resist bonus, but close. Dual reps, nanopump rigs, resist mods in the lows... it's not that hard. Sac has more versatility when it comes to range, but Deimos can opt to use 5x medium ecm drones which are imba. Like the rest of you, I wouldn't mind having that useless high moved to the mid instead of the lows, but the changes aren't nearly as bad as many of you make it out to be. You're just so used to gank fits that you can't fathom tanking it.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.05 21:56:00 - [167] Edited by: Grimpak on 05/02/2008 22:05:08 Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Kruel With this change, the Deimos can have a tank like the Sacrilege while doing 140 dps more. The downside is that it has to get in web range every time. Sounds fine to me. huh? how? Maybe you forgot the part where Deimos gets a 7.5% rep amount per lvl now? Not quite as good as the Sac's resist bonus, but close. Dual reps, nanopump rigs, resist mods in the lows... it's not that hard. Sac has more versatility when it comes to range, but Deimos can opt to use 5x medium ecm drones which are imba. Like the rest of you, I wouldn't mind having that useless high moved to the mid instead of the lows, but the changes aren't nearly as bad as many of you make it out to be. You're just so used to gank fits that you can't fathom tanking it. oh? check again. the sacri has more armor and the resists it has more than compensate the 37.5% rep bonus the new deimos has. and good luck tanking a deimos with injector when you can only pack some 8 charges and only 1000 units of ammo. and let's not forget that while you can setup a dual MAR tank on the sacriledge without sacrificing allot (you can fit mwd and injector with dual MAR and fit full rack of HAM's), the deimos needs to downgrade to electrons to do a similar fit. --- planetary interaction idea!
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:08:00 - [168] Originally by: Grimpak oh? check again. the sacri has more armor and the resists it has more than compensate the 37.5% rep bonus the new deimos has. and good luck tanking a deimos with injector when you can only pack some 8 charges and only 1000 units of ammo. The DPS tanked is similar. Like I said, the armor amount isn't quite as good as the res bonus, but it's close (around 30dps tanked). Sac has how much more armor than a Deimos? 60? Compare that to the Deimos' 1k more structure which means t2 suitcases are that much better on a Deimos. Also remember the 140 extra dps that the Deimos gets (yes in web range - you can't have everything). Lower your dps for built-in wcs (ie. 5x med ecm drones). Sac can't do that. 3x light ecm drones don't even compare. You'd beat a Sac 1v1 on this point alone unless it stays out of your web range the whole time... at which point you'd just warp off when he's jammed. The only valid points against the Deimos are smaller carrying capacity for cap 800s and having to fight in web range. But hey, go ahead and try to get it boosted more... I don't care. I can fly a Deimos too. Just saying... it's not that bad with these changes.
Lelulie Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:11:00 - [169] Electron Deimos with ECM Drones can be tanked by a passive Eris. ------------------------------------
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:16:00 - [170] Originally by: Kruel Originally by: Grimpak oh? check again. the sacri has more armor and the resists it has more than compensate the 37.5% rep bonus the new deimos has. and good luck tanking a deimos with injector when you can only pack some 8 charges and only 1000 units of ammo. The DPS tanked is similar. Like I said, the armor amount isn't quite as good as the res bonus, but it's close (around 30dps tanked). Sac has how much more armor than a Deimos? 60? Compare that to the Deimos' 1k more structure which means t2 suitcases are that much better on a Deimos. Also remember the 140 extra dps that the Deimos gets (yes in web range - you can't have everything). Lower your dps for built-in wcs (ie. 5x med ecm drones). Sac can't do that. 3x light ecm drones don't even compare. You'd beat a Sac 1v1 on this point alone unless it stays out of your web range the whole time... at which point you'd just warp off when he's jammed. The only valid points against the Deimos are smaller carrying capacity for cap 800s and having to fight in web range. But hey, go ahead and try to get it boosted more... I don't care. I can fly a Deimos too. Just saying... it's not that bad with these changes. boost it more? I don't want it changed. it's ok as it is tbh. --- planetary interaction idea!
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.02.05 22:30:00 - [171] TBH if I was balancing, I'd give it a 5/4/6 slot config and make med ecm drones less effective in the same patch.
Darth Natus Dark Tornado Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.02.05 23:11:00 - [172] Originally by: Kruel With this change, the Deimos can have a tank like the Sacrilege while doing 140 dps more. The downside is that it has to get in web range every time. Sounds fine to me. your point is flawed. firstly its a hideously inefficient active tanker due to cap, but thats been discussed enough. Your first and foremost flaw, is trying to tank it. The Deimos is all about gank, thats its nature, thats its purpose. So its GANK first and tank as an afterthought. Focussing on the tank on this ship is just prolonging ur enevitable death. your only really gonna be effective against targets u can kill with a T1 Thorax anyway, so why use the deimos? and if u wanna lose your firepower for tank, just fly a Sac, thats what a sac is for. or alternatively fly a phobos. A Deimos losing its gank is like a Vaga losing its speed or a Sac losing its tank. Its about supermaning your way up to ur target and kicking him in the balls. which is a damn bit more fun than sitting there with a half arsed attempt at a tank and waiting to die.
doctorstupid2 Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.05 23:22:00 - [173] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Here's an idea: change the armor rep bonus to 5% armor resists/level. Replace the 6th low, move the useless 6th high to a mid. Rebalance grid/cpu to match new layout. That is how to fix the Deimos, not a nerf that nobody wants. An injector is better than the MWD cap bonus, and a resist bonus is the one that is actually useful for a plate tank like the Deimos normally uses. Make these changes, and nobody will ever be allowed to complain about the Deimos again. Hah, I was thinking the exact same thing. Personally I've never felt the need to cap-boost a deimos, even pre-nosnerf, as it's cap is quite strong, but hey if it gets an extra mid i guess a sensor booster can't hurt. A resist bonus would indeed benefit it much more than a rep bonus, and losing the 6th low is, imo, unacceptable. won't somebody PLEASE think of the damage mods?! MOVIES: Deadspace Deadspace 2
doctorstupid2 Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.05 23:27:00 - [174] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss If you really want to boost the Deimos. Give it more powergrid. I've got maxed fitting skills but am short of 74.9 grid when it comes to fitting an 800mm plate in the following setup (despite having an RCU II fitted!). 50, 75 or 100 grid more would be plenty. High> 5 Heavy Neutron II, Salvager I Med> 10MN MWD II, x5 web, warp disrupt I Low> MAR II, EANM II, DCU II, Explo Hard II, RCU II (Free slot, 125.1 grid spare) This setup is cap stable for a good 2 minutes+ with perfect cap skills. All the below are for a Neutron II fit with an RCU II (A fair sacrifice IMHO for the extra DPS of Neutrons) TERRIBLE. for one, ions with a single mag field stab do more damage than neutrons. second, if you don't have at least 2 damage mods on a deimos, you're doing it wrong :P MOVIES: Deadspace Deadspace 2
Hatch Minmatar Cloak and Daggers	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:16:00 - [175] Edited by: Hatch on 06/02/2008 02:17:32 so, how much is ccp planning to ** up this game. FFS quit screwing with ** that isn't broken and FIX THE DAMN BUGS AND FINESH THE MODELS for all those jackasses who came from wow, go back! YOUR DUMBING DOWN A GAME THAT WAS MEANT TO BE COMPLICATED
Inkv Gallente OEG Red Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:26:00 - [176] CCP, please don't make it live on tranq, leave it alone, thanks
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Abyss Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 07:36:00 - [177] Originally by: doctorstupid2 Originally by: Vyktor Abyss If you really want to boost the Deimos. Give it more powergrid. I've got maxed fitting skills but am short of 74.9 grid when it comes to fitting an 800mm plate in the following setup (despite having an RCU II fitted!). 50, 75 or 100 grid more would be plenty. High> 5 Heavy Neutron II, Salvager I Med> 10MN MWD II, x5 web, warp disrupt I Low> MAR II, EANM II, DCU II, Explo Hard II, RCU II (Free slot, 125.1 grid spare) This setup is cap stable for a good 2 minutes+ with perfect cap skills. All the below are for a Neutron II fit with an RCU II (A fair sacrifice IMHO for the extra DPS of Neutrons) TERRIBLE. for one, ions with a single mag field stab do more damage than neutrons. second, if you don't have at least 2 damage mods on a deimos, you're doing it wrong :P You really missed the point didn't you? - read on to the rest of the post and see I fly it with neutrons and 3 mag stabs ideally. However that fitting is a fat tank fitting that also has its uses in certain situations: like when outnumbered where you might need more buffer hp. I use a plate often when flying the Deimos solo and regularly go against a couple cruisers plus a couple of intys or similar small gangs where you do need a buffer of hp. Extra powergrid gives you that buffer and still good DPS which if you'd read my whole post was what I was on about. Try getting those resists a rep, with an 800mm plate buffer and doing that high DPS without Neutrons - I'd like to see that mate. More options for different fittings are better than losing options which this "boosted" armour rep bonused Deimos does.
Lionel Redstar	Posted - 2008.02.06 09:21:00 - [178] /rant mode on Remove gallente because they do drone and blaster damage. Remove caldari because they do other things. Remove ammar becaure they are too weak. Remove minmatar because.. why not? Let's just remove everything, stick to shuttles and let's bump eachother till someone get borred and self destruct. /rant mode off Now on topic. " If it ain't broken don't fix it " /signed
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:22:00 - [179] Originally by: doctorstupid2 TERRIBLE. for one, ions with a single mag field stab do more damage than neutrons. second, if you don't have at least 2 damage mods on a deimos, you're doing it wrong :P well 1 MFS + ions might do more damage than just neutrons. ...but a neutron setup packs usually 3 MFS, and last time I checked, that outdamages an ion setup by allot. --- planetary interaction idea!
aaron 619 Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:36:00 - [180] Crash and burn......ship after ship....and CCP loves to brake the game so as to try and make us take more time out of our already filled life's to figure a work around or cross train for the now "not as bad ship" just as to take more time in skill training. its all about the money at the end of the day, don't let CCP kid you for a minute, this is not a game, its there job to keep us paying, and this is how they do it. WORK ONLINE, oops , I mean, EVE, wait?!? If I can do it, so can you! If you choose not to, your fault, not mine! Stop Spamming the T1 Nerf Torp CCP. Invent a T2 boost Torp and use it! Balance is Important, EVE still being fun, Priceles
NichoTBE The JORG Corporation Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:50:00 - [181] wish they'd taken the high slot away instead of the low. I though the deimos was a decent ship as it was. Had cap problems at times but i used that extra high for a nos and it improved greatly. Take away its extra high and give it a 5,4,6 setup.
Djerin Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:22:00 - [182] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
LordInvisible Gallente FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:47:00 - [183] signed and signed.. deimos got its share of boost, now DONT "boost" it anymore in anyway.. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heelay Ashrum Caldari Santhe Sienar Technologies	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:30:00 - [184] Edited by: Heelay Ashrum on 06/02/2008 16:32:32 Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Heelay Ashrum So the cost of a 4th medium is to loose 1 ( of the 6 ) low slots? What's all this whine? Do you realy dont understand what this is u bust and not a nerf?!? a cap injector is a huge bust (powercore permitting), and for those that realy say that they dont need it,.. well put a damp/ecs burst/what the hell u will . There is a lot of nasty things u can do with a med slot. indeed, the deimos will be busted by this change jokes aside, have you ever flown one? I used it a lot around 2-3 years ago ( jsut after HAC release), but not recently ( im aware of the changes since then), but never liked it so much so i switched to other gallente ships ( ishtar/bs's). I think i simply never liked the fliing style ( pure gank & paper-thin ship). Maybe i just consider it a worthles ship since a brutix can make the same job with much less isk and even more survivability. Tested it again after the changes made recently ( -1 turret & lesser mass) on test server, but still dont fit my taste. the changes make this ship more brutix stile, but personally i welcome this change. ( even an ecm burst that break others lock its useful as 4th slot) Sincerelly i havent triied the ship on test server, but if it have powercore for a injector and, a good plate + rep it will last much more doing combat. All people already started imemdiatly to whine, but they have really tested if those changes sucks or they are just too lazy to test and find new setup? it's obvious that the ship need a powercore change, but.. "what the hell!!!" .. give them the time to make those changes!!
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:34:00 - [185] Hey, think of it this way: now you can use the Deimos for missions or as a passive shield-tanked nano-rail boat. Really, I think those roles are far better suited to the Deimos than a close-range blaster boat. [/sarcasm] Risk <--> Reward. Has CCP forgotten that idea completely? It's possibly the riskiest HAC to fly when gank fit but it can provide the most rewards in terms of DPS. It's balanced just fine. If you so much as look at it the wrong way, let alone web it, nos it, neut it, etc., it's dead, but if you leave it alone it will wipe the floor with you faster than you can say, 'Would you like that floor cleaned with Pinesol or Murphy's'? If these changes go live, any gank-oriented Deimos pilot may as well recycle their ships and fly Brutixes: you'll get similar performance, a better tank, and they'll be a hell of a lot cheaper to lose. So yeah, /signed. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
kveldulfson LFC FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:00:00 - [186] This change on sisi is a travesty, if it getes onto Tq then I see a lot of deimos being scrapped as the will be useless. I have to agree that pointless ship tweaking is a waste of time when there are more important things that need fixing. But if CCP need to twaek ships at least let someone with a brain do it
Teyrala Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:56:00 - [187] /signed TBH, I am not a pvper, but I understand why they are annoyed at this nerf - the ishtar is for missions, the deimos is for pvp.
Havok Pierce Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:37:00 - [188] If it's not broken... do not make a mistaken attempt to repair it. Better words: Good design demands good compromise. I assert that the previous setup was a good compromise (speaking as a pilot). Not fast, but not particularly slow either: a mix of gank and tank. In my honest opinion, the design for the Deimos has been the quintessential blastboat: Survive long enough to get in range and then tear the enemy a new orifice. Requiring the ship to carry cap booster charges (all 8 of them with cap 800s) is a unnecessary hobble on the design and does not quantify "good compromise", as the ship will not be sustainable for any string of combats larger than two or three (thereby reducing operational range). It is not a good compromise. In addition, the ship MUST trade the following to get a fit (all calculations done with STOCK Antimatter Charge M assuming 0% resistances, compare the #s against your ship setups to get a proper blow-for-blow tank survey): Approximately 16% damage overall in terms of DPS (375/445), with a volley reduction of 21% (1039/1406) at a range penalty of 0.4+1.7 (20% penalty). Increased tank to roughly 235 DPS (after resistances, hybrid damage), up from 189. Extra midslot will nominally go towards injector (although I can see uses for some manner of Ewar) if active-tank. Otherwise you will cap out in just under two minutes with the repairer on and no MWD, half that with both active. One heavy neutralizer will still ruin your day. That last highslot is still useless (unless elecron blasters are fit, but that completelely destroys the per-volley damage (around half) and kicks the DPS down to 351 kin/therm as well as cutting the range another 20%). With the turret disruption changes, this ship relies on its falloff. Even though I can see some bright spots with the changes, I still cannot agree that the ship was broken to begin with. I implore CCP to make some more revisions and put them on Singularity to get tested more thoroughly than they can do internally. Originally by: CCP Wrangler There's a Community petition category??
ShepherdBook	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:56:00 - [189] Edited by: ShepherdBook on 06/02/2008 22:57:33 /signed Deimos is my favorite ship, I fly it often. This change is ridiculous. Deimos is a truly unique ship atm with a specific role, very well balanced. The change proposes that it'd be a typical "hey I'm Gallante and I can beat you" ship.
Angelina Silver	Posted - 2008.02.07 12:02:00 - [190] Deimos doesn't really have the grid to support a cap injector anyway. As it stands it is one of the better ships in the game and one of the more entertaining ones to fly. WTF do you guys do at CCP? Sit back and say hey, lets take the funnest ship in the game and ** it all up just for **s and giggles? CCP - You can't even fix broken things without breaking something else. So FFS stay the hell away from things that arn't even broke to begin with.
Aenemah	Posted - 2008.02.08 10:51:00 - [191] Please keep Deimos flyable - means don't think about turning these changes in, thanks from gallente and others :)
JustAddWatah Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2008.02.11 04:30:00 - [192] Stop picking on the deimos!! /signed
NeoTheo Caldari Dark Materials	Posted - 2008.02.11 12:02:00 - [193] I am not even a demo pilot, but ANYONE can see this is total madness, hell mess with the ishtar if you have to, but why mess with the demo, its NOT BROKEN.
ChalSto Divine Retribution Divine 0rder	Posted - 2008.02.11 13:48:00 - [194] ok ok..... Dear responsible Dev (dont worry....we¦ll find out who u are...), YOU realy want to "fix" the Deimos? (I say "you", becouse noone else "want" to fix it, maybe becouse its fine as it is?). It should compare with the other HACs? (I want a Dev reply, were he can explain me, how a Deimos should compare with a Vagabound (hit/run role), a Sacrilege (nano role), Munnin (sniper role), or a Zealot (tank)) Sooooo......a Deimos should compare with all of these Hacs.......lemme see: Then we need 100 m/s more speed (becouse it should compare with Vaga), 2k more armor (compares with Amarr HACs), 100% more weapon optimal range and falloff (yes yes.....we want to sniper with it......who needs a Munnin.....) and not to forget an amarr....er.....sry....armor-repping bonus. [sarcasm off/] Dear community, plz let us spend some Isk together for this Dev to buy him a GTC, so he might actually can play the game to give him a small idea how to play EvE Evil will allways triumph, becouse Good is dumb
Asteryos	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:29:00 - [195] /signed No words can describe what i think of ZuluParks epic idea of balancing a ship...
Akilum Gallente Gr0und Zer0	Posted - 2008.02.12 22:31:00 - [196] /signed IF IT'S NOT BROKEN, DON'T FIX IT!
TKane Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.13 00:26:00 - [197] Changes: No more MWD cap penalty removal. Removing low slot for mid slot. Adding 7.5% per HAC level of rep amount bonus. Removing the MWD capacitor penalty reduction and adding 250en to the capacitor results in a 1523en capacitor. This ship normally starves for capacitor, giving it the extra mid slot for a cap booster will help this immensely, itÆs just the sacrificing of the low slot to get there that troubles me. This nerfs the damage output from 1475/volley & 724 dps to 1396/volley & 658 dps (T2 Ions, assuming max skills). In a world where your ship has to operate in web range, dps is highly important as you have to break your opponents tank before he breaks yours, as you are webbed and warp scrambled as well. Having the cap booster in there gives makes that 6th high slot completely useless, unless you use rigs. Sacrificing this slot makes much more sense to gain the mid. The ship then sustains itÆs firepower and simply ads staying power ability with a cap booster fitted. The addition of the rep bonus is nice, I do like that idea. I just wonder how useful it will be in a ship that when it comes under fire, rarely lasts long enough to get even 2 rep cycles in due to it's thin armor. Will have to test some more to see.
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.13 03:27:00 - [198] IMO if they really must put a repair bonus on one of the HAC's, put it on the Ishtar (remove the hybrid bonus). Maybe that will give ishtar pilots an incentive to stop nano-fitting them (since apparently that is the only way they can survive according to the pilots). Leave the deimos alone or 5/4/6 it. A repair bonus would be so useless on that thing. Even worse, due to the loss of a low slot, it only makes me believe that they wanted to remove a low slot in the first place, but added the rep bonus as an after-thought because they realized that it would die even faster than before. A bonus that is simply there to let the ship function is NOT a bonus. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
TajelejaT Gallente Lithuanians	Posted - 2008.02.13 12:11:00 - [199] Edited by: TajelejaT on 13/02/2008 12:15:41 Best what I could fitt in Deimos (SiSi): High: 5 x Ions T2, Small Neutralaiser T2; Med: 10MN mwT2, Medium Elektr.. Booser (800), Scramble T2, Balmer Tracking Disruptor/web; Low: Med Rep T2, 2x Energized Adaptive T2, Expl. Hardener T2, Damage Control T2; Rig; Anti-Em, Anti-EXp. Drones 5xhammer's http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0802/Deimos_sisi.png Pls CCP i would like to see Deimos fitt, why u made 645 ? P.C. Em rezist just 50, now when ammar is boosted it's realy harder to tank. Run if u'l se minmatar with emp :)
rafaman Unsafe Flying Ops	Posted - 2008.02.13 15:14:00 - [200] Edited by: rafaman on 13/02/2008 15:16:49 I strongly believe that CCP should either leave deimos as it is or remove the 6th useless high slot and add the middle one. It would be something like 5-4-6 . Deimos is a combat ship that has a very specific role. Go in fast... do a lot of dps... kill.. leave or die. Thats it. Thats why its a great ship and thats why I love to fly with it. I usually fit 5 ions, 1 mwd, 1 cap booster or a web, 1 warp disruptor and on lows a rep, a dcu, resistances and a mag stab. My setup allows me to go over 1600ms and I usually have someone else on the gang that can use a web. IOn that case I can fit a cap booster. The reasoning behing adding one more med slot is to fit a cap booster as I have read. Why?!? Whats the point? Right now I can already fly deimos with MWD bonus and a cap booster. If the MWD bonus and the low slot is removed then Deimos will have a completly diffrent role. It will be a ship that will rely on tank but with reduced firepower... Whats the point of using a ship like Deimos then? The only way I could accept a change on the med slots and MWD bonus is if CCP changes the setup to 5-4-6 and not 6-4-5. That way at least I will still be able to fit a mag stab and have the same damage dealing. The drawback would be a much more cap boosters dependent ship but at least it would hold the tank a bit more. But hey... guess what... the cargo space on Deimos only allows you to take at most 8 charges (800). That change would make sense if the ship had more cargo space. It doesnt. Its a cruiser sized ship. Rep bonus on a BC, Command Shp or BS is one thing. Rep Bonus on a small ship like Deimos is useless IMO. Deimos is a feared ship not because of its base reistances but because of it damage capability. If this change goes through we may as well throw to the trash can the 30 days or more that takes to train HAC at level 5. And please stop nerfing gallente. I know this seems like winning of some but think a bit on this. You guys nerfed gallente CPU with the EAN t2 cpu req change. Nerfed Drones Shield regeneration reducing a lot the drone durability in combat, one of the primary weapons for gallente (why the hell did I spent one month training drone intarfacing level 5?? I cant destroy a launcher on a Caldari ship can I?? But anyone can destroy all of my drones with a smartbomb. Great.). Then further nerfed Drones with ridiculous bandwith in some ships, like Myrmidon (both drones nerf basically almost killed the ship). Now it seems that you will further nerf gallente changing a ship that does not need a nerf (it is a nerf as you can read from all the feedback here. there no other way to look at it.) plus looks like we have a new nerf on the way... with the EM change on armor. WTH is going on with you ppl? Did you wake up one day and said... "lets see how far we can go with a race before we start losing customers??" EVE is a game and I pay to play. I would like to be able to continue to enjoy the game... but spending weeks or months training for a certain ship and drones to make full use of its capabilities only to see it changed in such a drastic way is not, in my opinion, compatible with a good gaming experience. And its all about that isnt it? Keeping the player base interested and wanting to spend moer time in game. Sure we can all adapt and overcome. But why do I need to do that? Why cant I adapt to fly other ships but continue to fly the ones I trained for with the same specs (or better) that made me want to spend so much time training to fly them in the first place? Its not only about this particular change. Its about all the changes made during the last months and the ones comming in our way.
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.02.13 17:42:00 - [201] Edited by: Spenz on 13/02/2008 17:43:15 Originally by: rafaman Edited by: rafaman on 13/02/2008 15:16:49 stuff You forgot the ishkur, lachesis, arazu, and eos, but I digress. Yeah it is kind of suspect but I won't worry about it (for fear of being called a whiner by the biggest whiners in eve: Caldari/Amarr). I just don't want these deimos changes to go through. They are so unbelievably ill-thought it boggles my mind how this could even get past in-house testing let alone get on sisi, for once something actually makes it on Sisi, there is an infinitely higher chance that it will be put on Tranq. than if it was never introduced at all. Anyone else remember what ultra-unpopular idea made it into tranq. after it was stealth-introduced on Sisi? cough150m3T1modulescough If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
rafaman Unsafe Flying Ops	Posted - 2008.02.13 18:24:00 - [202] Originally by: Spenz You forgot the ishkur, lachesis, arazu, and eos, but I digress. Yeah it is kind of suspect but I won't worry about it (for fear of being called a whiner by the biggest whiners in eve: Caldari/Amarr). Dont remind me of EOS. I feel depressed just to think about it. EOS was a great ship I would train for next if it wasnt for the MEGA NERF. Sure it needed some balancing with others but I would have prefered that the other command ships where boosted to level them with EOS. At least we would still had a ship that we could actually justify the investment. I may consider Astarte now... but the way things are going, I bet it will be nerfed soon. And by that I mean targeted specifically by the anti-Gallente movement at CCP. Because if we all see things as they are, gallente have been nerfed across the board. Wanna bet that next they will nerf ECM and Damp drones? I give you 1 month tops. If I was to join EVE now and I was reading the forums, most probably I would not go for Gallente. Cheers
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.02.13 18:54:00 - [203] After testing it on SISI, I can say.. 1. I love the rep bonus and hope they keep it even if the MWD bonus doesn't get compensated by extra base cap. 2. Cap rigs are no longer optional but a must have, and only adds to the cost of the ship. It also limits me from using armor or speed rigs. Overall, its ironic that my Deimos has more cap concerns after obtaining a slot for cap injector. 3. Fitting the injector isn't hard, if you forget about using neutrons or that 6th utility slot. Essentially, CCP undid the last powergrid boost where I was able to upgrade from small nosferatu/neut to a medium one. I'm not gonna cry over it now that nosferatu are even less useful than before - and I am completely used to the fact that trying to fit neutrons on anything is a wild joke. My recommendation for anyone that is listening at CCP HQ, is to remove the 6th utility slot instead of a low slot. Make the ship 5/4/6 instead of 6/4/5. A good incentive for doing so, is that if the new Zealot proves too much competition you may end up with players clamoring for a 6th turret :p If you wanted to throw blaster pilots a bone that makes the ship compete with the new Zealot without increasing damage further, you can compensate the loss of MWD bonus with a slight boost to base cap. 1500 cap total after skills is not just not funny. If it stays like that, fitting an injector will be mandatory. Again, I would not cry over it but I dislike using one single boring, and highly predictable setup. If I'm going to slam into someone at point blank range, I should have more control over the style of tanking my ship has - whether its plated, active, or injector driven. Being versatile in combat style is not something the Deimos is, but at least you can allow people the choice to approach it in different ways. The entire reason people love the Deimos (those that do) is because you can get damage and tanking that is superior to Gallente blaster frigates, but without resorting to the injector-powered nonsense of Gallente BC/CS/BS. I like injectors for making bigger blaster ships perform their function, but if I have to start using them on small ships with fewer slots I will go balls deep in crazy. I want to be free to run around without docking up to restock after every fight, or risk going into fights gimped on cap. It would limit me to operating within a few jumps of my base, which completely defeats the mobility of HACs. So to reiterate; 5 high 4 med 6 low Armor rep bonus instead of MWD bonus + slight increase to base cap. Simple enough, really. I don't believe in God, but I'm going to pray for the Deimos. And for anyone that screws it up.. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/
Ripcha Headov Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.13 19:17:00 - [204] Well said digital, 5 lows on a cruiser that is meant to tank well is not enough, even with an armour rep bonus. the Deimos should have 6 lows and NEEDS 6 lows. it does not need 6 highs and never did. please ccp reconsider your slot alterations, i think everybody that flys the deimos can confirm to you that the 6th high is rarely if ever used, and every single last 1 of the lows is always used. Personally i don;t see a problem with how its at the moment on TQ. With all the previous ship and mod nerfs ccp has put in place even if i havn;t liked them because they have effected me negatively i HAVE however seen the point of them. This however i really cannot see the point of. its just needlessly messing with an otherwise very well balanced ship.
Dirtee Girl Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.02.13 19:26:00 - [205] kind of reminds me of the classic cyclone with the 4 midslot shield tank looking at the eagle+zealot changes was kinda puzzling but fine ok whatev. but seriously we seem to be drifting towards a more inter-dependant form of pvp where ships are forced to rely on each other to survive in combat the new deimos looks like it's going to need a "tag along" guardian to work . is this what ccp is aiming for where no ship can survive on it's own and must be supported by logistics during combat ? C/D * *
Theron Gyrow Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.02.13 19:40:00 - [206] Originally by: Spenz Originally by: rafaman stuff You forgot the ishkur, lachesis, arazu, and eos, but I digress. Yeah it is kind of suspect but I won't worry about it (for fear of being called a whiner by the biggest whiners in eve: Caldari/Amarr). He also forgot that the torp boost pretty much obsoleted the Blasterthron. And I understand why some Caldari/Amarr players react the way they do - apparently whining long enough hard enough really works and they want to preserve the current status quo. Originally by: Spenz I just don't want these deimos changes to go through. They are so unbelievably ill-thought it boggles my mind how this could even get past in-house testing let alone get on sisi This. There is no need to completely change the function of the ship on basis of some 1-vs-1 fights. 1-vs-1. God. -- Gradient forum
TasMan HUN The Scope	Posted - 2008.02.13 20:12:00 - [207] Originally by: Hunter Vonnegut HEY CCP! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!! /signed
XLR Eight Viziam	Posted - 2008.02.13 21:02:00 - [208] Still not everyone trains for Caldary ships (only about 80% of the pilots) so yeah, nerf this bird (but call it balancing ofc).
nemississ eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.02.13 21:23:00 - [209] Well From what i heared This little gift (Nerf IMO) Is from our great friend zulupark same guy who decided that the dictors were broken and decided to fix those aswell. The deimos as is works FINE its not broken and we dont want it "fixed". leave the damn ship alone if you want to add a mid swap it for that highslot but leave its bonuses and lows as is The thing is an armor tanker not a shield tanker it NEEDS lots of low slots not less. How do you expect me to fit a full rack of neutrons plus reps plus hardners run it all at once plus my mwd and tackle gear because face it this thing NEEDS an mwd to get into weapons range. All i can say is if it aint broken dont fix it, go work on fixing real broken ships like AF's dont add new Af's FIX THE ONES YOU HAVE give them a real combat role. Now this thread needs a seriouse Dev reponse this is clearly somthing that isint needed and should not be bothered with tho props for boosting amarr they have needed it for a long time.
ChalSto Divine Retribution Divine 0rder	Posted - 2008.02.13 22:46:00 - [210] /bump PS 1: 5/4/6 PS 2: Fire zulupark, give us tux back Evil will allways triumph, becouse Good is dumb
rafaman Unsafe Flying Ops	Posted - 2008.02.13 22:50:00 - [211] Originally by: nemississ Now this thread needs a seriouse Dev reponse(...) So true. What it seems to me right now is that there is a clear tendency to favor certain races over the others under the excuse of balancing things. I would love to see more participation from the dev team or anyone that can actually participate on these foruns from CCP. Any indication that they care about our opinion on these matters would be great. Cheers
Gar Ddhen Gallente Mining Bytes Inc. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.14 00:04:00 - [212] Been messing on SiSi Personally, if the Deimos stays like this I will be relegating it to the hanger. It just doesnt have the grid to fit the projected active tank + blasters + cap booster. To take a case in point, I managed: 5 Ion II, best named medium Neut Named MWD, named medium cap booster, T2 web, T2 point MAR II, T2 EANM, T2 explosive hardener, DC II and Mag stab II To fit that I HAD to use to ancillary Router rigs to get the PG. Drop the Neut and I could fit Neut II's, but as its a single rep fit it wont be winning any tanking awards. Which would be fine, except I now find myself reverting to a plated fit with one less low and, one high that has no real use, and a mid that is only really useful for a second web or something else I dont really need or want. Great, its an OK ratting/mission ship now... I dont want the damned thing as a PvE boat, I want it as a do or die get in close and break holes in some other guys hull... preferably before he does the same to me PvP boat.
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.02.14 04:36:00 - [213] As I said in my post already, if this ship is intended to be used with cap injectors, CCP effectively undid the last Deimos powergrid boost where you could go from small nos -> med nos. With that setup, you're better off with a small neut and armor or cap rigs or something. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/
Kieran Jarnush	Posted - 2008.02.14 10:59:00 - [214] Edited by: Kieran Jarnush on 14/02/2008 11:01:54 if even pilots not using the deimos say this change gimped it, tis should mean theres something wrong now. srsly the deimos has a role which, after the last pg buff, it was able to field very well. now u dedicated a new role to it. i fail to see which one that is (have u explained it yet?), and all pilots using it now are really uncomfortable with the change. for pvp tis makes no sense, just sell it. buy an ishtar and nano it. another point is that active tanking sucks compared to plate/resistance tanking. a repper bonus is nice, but it can't fit a plate and barely has enough armor hp to soack good alpha damage.
Mag's MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.02.14 11:05:00 - [215] They are right, we are wrong it seems. Not sure you'll change their minds tbh, it's just like the ridiculous em/exp armour/shield reduction, pointless and completely missing the intended target. Mag's Originally by: Avernus One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you.
Lionel Redstar	Posted - 2008.02.14 12:45:00 - [216] Edited by: Lionel Redstar on 14/02/2008 12:47:18 Seems like the CCP really don't care about what players think since this thread got to 8 pages and not even a "bump" from a dev with reasons or stuff. CCP, you really need to work on your "comunication" skills. RE "Not broken, don't fix it" /signed
James Draekn X.E.N.O.	Posted - 2008.02.15 04:05:00 - [217] Edited by: James Draekn on 15/02/2008 04:05:39 linkage Take a look at the response from the DEV in this DEV blog. They are listening to the information we are putting in here. We just need to give them the time to evaluate it, test it, and respond. Being realistic, the community as a whole can come up with better ideas, comes down to the more minds applied theory (CCP has a huge advantage in this department then other MMORPGs). Apparently their main concern is the Deimos' balance versus the zealot/sacrilege now that those ships have been fixed (thank you, CCP). This gaming community has alot invested in this game, and so do the DEVs. Alot of them play this game and what sounds good to them, may not sound/test good once the community tests it. Bluntly, give them realistic evaluations problems that their proposal causes, and give them solutions to fix it. This helps more and will get payed more attention to then flaming.
Silmerias Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.02.15 15:17:00 - [218] Please... Stop nerf the Deimos !!!... it have already a useless high slot, don't move fast. THE ONLY use of the deimos is to run in close and use it firepower to kill someone before he kill you. I'm really desapointed. Deimos have a close range of 3000m, Vagabon 12km, and zealot a lot of km... It's logic the deimos is less fast as the vaga ? NO ! It's logic to nerf it Firepower ? NO Damit ! The Deimos was never a pownmobile like the vaga. That's sux! --- Tau Ceti Federation
nemississ eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.02.16 00:01:00 - [219] Right so it seems ccp has decided to reconsider the diemos NERF now I love ccp because they actually listen to us, So everyone calm your self and go read the dev post linked several posts above. NOW down to why i am making this post Id like to point out that each ship is very diffrent in what it does and how it works Now i think a very good solution to your problem without killing the way the ship is flown by the majority of pilots, is to simply move the spare high slot down to a mid atm some pilots use it for nos or neut but i think most will agree that a spare mid would be nice. Why woudl this fix the issue your looking at well it would give the ship the ability too be flown in two ways either as a HP tanking gank ship or as an active tanker giving the pilots the ability to fit a cap booster and active tank but must cut back on dps to achive this. This would create a well balanced ship wich will allow for either a tanked setup or a DPS setup of your choice but not both. The current ship bonuses are fine as is and should NOT be changed IMO because this ship with our without an active tank NEEDs to be able to close the distance on its target (mwd bonus). Damage bonuses are a must But while i personally never fight in falloff with the deimos some may but i think if there must be a bonus change it shoudl be there as that would least affect its current use IMO.
Ykheron	Posted - 2008.02.17 13:38:00 - [220] Please CCP, stop messing with new gallente ships by giving this so useless armor rep bonus (brutix, hyperion, astarte, etc), just usefull for pve or 1vs1 pvp, do u intend to force gallente to play ur MMO solo ? Deimos with Megathron and Taranis are the last good gallente ships (droners excepted), just look at kill mails in big alliances. DON'T TOUCH THESE SHIPS !! (removing 1 low will kill deimos, the 4th med is near useless on a blasterboat) think about spe matar that have decent hac untill some amarr whine will nerf it
T536	Posted - 2008.02.18 14:27:00 - [221] CCP, Just increase the speed and the powergrid, full rack of neutrons and more speed will be enough
Loba Sorrateira	Posted - 2008.02.18 15:47:00 - [222] I guess it all comes down to how the pilots use it, and how these changes go in a different direction. I understand the need to add some balance with the new Amarian ships(which are requiring a boost for a long time), and the difficulty in not using other races bonuses, but the fact is the Deimos is the quintessential GANK ship for most pilots. And that role does not have space for an active tank.(TANK and GANK can't live at the same time on the same ship, balancing 101...) I believe the Astarte has a similar problem, since the repping bonus is useful for PVE, but most people will NOT use an Astarte for missions(no MWD allowed + Blasters = less isk per hour). What really matters for these ships are: DMG output(the more, the more likely to win), speed(need to approach due to blasters), cap(need for shooting and MWD), armor(needed to survive long enough). I am sure you can reach balance by working on the cap/armor aspect(repping bonus + cap injector), but you change the role of the ship by doing so. It is NOT an Amarrian ship. It is NOT supposed to outtank the enemies. If it needs fixing(and that is a big IF), then you better change DMG output(enhance tracking?) or speed(decrease approach time). In fact, i think a base speed boost would be most beneficial, keeping the same MWD bonus it has now. It indirectly increases DPS and tank duration on a standard battle. Loba ps. This alt is caldari, but my main is a gallente pilot, and the Deimos is the only ship he's fully skilled to fly... Don't mess with it...
Ripcha Headov Art of War	Posted - 2008.02.19 15:13:00 - [223] Had a chance to really properly test the new slot layout and its not as horrible as i had first imagined and with a little jiggery pokery i managed to get a nice setup that still does lots of damage and can tank very well for 1 rep. (tanks sentries no prob) The extra high i just used with an offlined salvager to act as a heat sink for prolonged overloading on guns. then after fights can online the salvager and get that nice T2 salvage. so tbh i'm realy not too bothered if this 'nerf' comes in or not now. will make soloing in deimos much more viable and for small gangs. Its not the uber damage dealing ship it once was but it still puts out alot of pain and makes tanking it possible. Sry ccp for getting so anoyed before properly testing it. i can now see the light as it were. dare i say roll on 6/4/5 deimos??
Ykheron	Posted - 2008.02.20 13:40:00 - [224] Edited by: Ykheron on 20/02/2008 13:47:02 Edited by: Ykheron on 20/02/2008 13:45:02 I recently notice this : (TQ) Deimos : signature rad = 160m, speed = 205 m/s Ishtar : signature rad = 145m, speed = 190 m/s Zealot : signature rad = 125m, speed = 215 m/s Sacrilege : signature rad = 140m, speed = 205 m/s Why Deimos, which is designed to mwd rush and blast its target, has worst sig rad and is slower than Zealot ? So to improve Deimos against new Zealot : (SISI) - just reduce sig rad to same value : 125m and set its speed to 220m/s. - maybe add a med slot (with a little more pg for med cap boost) or (better in my opinion) just a little more capacitor. - let Deimos with 6 low (zealot have 7 !) This should be enought to take Zealot in close fight (-20km) and long range fight (+40km or +60km for cruiser/has) remain for Zealot.
Beowulf Scheafer	Posted - 2008.02.21 08:17:00 - [225] Edited by: Beowulf Scheafer on 21/02/2008 08:18:55 the deimos as it is works pretty well in small groups. i use mine with neutron blasters, 3 dmg mods, an inj. and no scrambler. while the proposed change would give me the opportunity to fit a scrambler, it would take a good portion of my dmg. and then i could aswell use a vagabond instead... 6 lowslots is the least to have to really fullfill its role (aka dmg), the proposed 6/4/5 change will only stop people from using it, and they haven't started that long ago. the repair bonus is nice tho and worth having it, giving up a highslot to get another med is also very welcome (i never had the resources to fit anything besides a small nos in it ), but sacrificing a lowslot for a med is nothing but a reason to sell it...
Cypress Cavalero Debitum Naturae	Posted - 2008.02.23 02:25:00 - [226] straight up NO i have just done 24 days training and am nearly in this ship- do not do this deimos is brutal as it is removing a LOW on an ARMOUR tanked ship wtf- why would you need to nerf this?? arnet there more important things to sort out? de-synches lag or jita instead of playing with something that does actually work?
Azuse The Brotherhood Of The Blade Pure.	Posted - 2008.02.23 15:00:00 - [227] Edited by: Azuse on 23/02/2008 15:00:50 Personally i like having a booster to prolong fights (good thing) and i like being actively tanked, again prolonging fighting (good thing). Sadly someone had an epiphany when they chose to remove the low slot from the (suicide ship) armour tank. I like the deimos, it does very well vs the other hacs, sadly i also see no point in pvping in any ship i know will end up missing half it's hull after a single encounter, honestly how many people have tried this out and found themselves in flames shooting another ship, and i only fit 2 mag stabs but this tank is lamentable at best. After one joyous year my deimos is going back into the hanger where it came from, only to be brought out for the ratting, nice changes, badly implemented. -------------------------
Antodias North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.02.23 15:32:00 - [228] Well I've done a lot of testing on SiSi, and the Deimos is not worse, it's had its role changed. From being a do-or-die mini-gankthron, its not become more of a slow-burning tank ship. This means: (a) It will be much better for solo/small gang work in lowsec. but (b) It serves no real purpose in 0.0 or medium to large gangs. Basically in order to use it effectively you need 1 rep (thus removing its pure gank ability) but I personally think 2 is much better. This gives you a maximum damage potential of ions with no magstabs, and even that needs ancillary rigs. It's active tank is now incredible, but pretty mediocre damage. In summary, if this change is put through, I'll definatly use it for low sec solo or small gang work and I intend to make some fraps (some fights on sisi were epic). But for 0.0 work, stick with the Ishtar.
Antodias North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.02.28 18:10:00 - [229] Most of you will be glad to hear the deimos has been changed back to it's original 6/3/6 config and MWD bonus after the mirror, unless its just a temporary thing. Still I would have preferred a little more testing, since I'm one of the very few people who actually thought the deimos wasn't that bad after the change. But the people who whine on the forums all day every day seem to win out eventually.
oniplE Blue. Blue Federation	Posted - 2008.02.28 19:18:00 - [230] Originally by: Antodias Most of you will be glad to hear the deimos has been changed back to it's original 6/3/6 config and MWD bonus after the mirror, unless its just a temporary thing. Still I would have preferred a little more testing, since I'm one of the very few people who actually thought the deimos wasn't that bad after the change. But the people who whine on the forums all day every day seem to win out eventually. The deimos wasnt worse, but it was different. The role of the ship is fine, they should have just boosted it while retaining its role. 6th turret imo! :P x
ChalSto Divine Retribution Divine 0rder	Posted - 2008.02.29 06:29:00 - [231] Confirmed. Deimos is back on its old state <3 Sooooooooo, dear Devs. Back to the drawingboard. Boost? How about a 7th low? Evil will allways triumph, becouse Good is dumb
MellaRinn Gallente Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.02.29 12:04:00 - [232] Edited by: MellaRinn on 29/02/2008 12:03:51 Originally by: ChalSto Confirmed. Deimos is back on its old state <3 Sooooooooo, dear Devs. Back to the drawingboard. Boost? How about a 7th low? screenshot here: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0802/DeimosSiSi29Feb2008.jpg ✖Veto Corp. Officer✖ Click the sig 4 my vids
Lobster Man Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.02.29 12:05:00 - [233] If you REALLY want to change something, I would seriously not mind swapping the 6th highslot for the 4th midslot ^_^
M1AU Gallente Rheintal Underground Rising	Posted - 2008.02.29 12:45:00 - [234] Boost? How about some more PG or maybe just a velocity increase/weight decrease?
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.02.29 16:36:00 - [235] Lame, looks like they caved into whining. Deimos is fine on TQ right now, but its not going to compete with a 5 turret Zealot. Instead of abolishing the whole idea of change, they should have simply abolished the first change. I still want a rep bonus and 4th mid, at the expense of mwd bonus and 6th utility high. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/
Willy Joe	Posted - 2008.02.29 19:59:00 - [236] Originally by: Ykheron Edited by: Ykheron on 20/02/2008 14:04:32 I recently noticed this : (TQ) Deimos : signature rad = 160m, speed = 205 m/s Ishtar : signature rad = 145m, speed = 190 m/s Zealot : signature rad = 125m, speed = 215 m/s Sacrilege : signature rad = 140m, speed = 205 m/s Why the Deimos, which is designed to mwd rush and blast its target, has worst sig rad and is slower than the Zealot ? So to improve the Deimos against the new Zealot : (SISI) - just reduce sig rad to same value : 125m and set its speed to 220m/s. - maybe add a med slot (with a little more pg for med cap boost) or (better in my opinion) just a little more capacitor. - let the Deimos with 6 low (the Zealot have 7 !) This should be enought for the Deimos to take the new Zealot in close range fight (-20km) and long range fight (+40km or +60km for cruiser/has) remains for the Zealot. This doesn't nerf the Deimos's fleet role ;) You , my friend , are hilarious!
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.29 21:53:00 - [237] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Lame, looks like they caved into whining. Deimos is fine on TQ right now, but its not going to compete with a 5 turret Zealot. Instead of abolishing the whole idea of change, they should have simply abolished the first change. I still want a rep bonus and 4th mid, at the expense of mwd bonus and 6th utility high. The main thing players were against was removal of MWD bonus. The slot changes may be ok. If there is a need to boost the Deimos, it can still be done, just without sacrificing the MWD bonus. There's always more than 1 way to change things. Can't you see that MWD bonus is a very special bonus, its uniqueness should be preserved. Other stats may be changed tho.
Poba	Posted - 2008.02.29 22:55:00 - [238] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Lame, looks like they caved into whining. Deimos is fine on TQ right now, but its not going to compete with a 5 turret Zealot. Instead of abolishing the whole idea of change, they should have simply abolished the first change. I still want a rep bonus and 4th mid, at the expense of mwd bonus and 6th utility high. /signed the deimos attribute changes werent too bad being that it was also recieveing the extra cap to make up for the loss of the MWD bonus, the change it really needed was 6th high slot >> 4th med slot. then the ship would be able to perform as well as it should ~Welcome to the internet, where the men are men, the women are men, and the children are FBI agents~
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2008.02.29 23:17:00 - [239] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: DigitalCommunist Lame, looks like they caved into whining. Deimos is fine on TQ right now, but its not going to compete with a 5 turret Zealot. Instead of abolishing the whole idea of change, they should have simply abolished the first change. I still want a rep bonus and 4th mid, at the expense of mwd bonus and 6th utility high. The main thing players were against was removal of MWD bonus. The slot changes may be ok. If there is a need to boost the Deimos, it can still be done, just without sacrificing the MWD bonus. There's always more than 1 way to change things. Can't you see that MWD bonus is a very special bonus, its uniqueness should be preserved. Other stats may be changed tho. The MWD bonus was compensated by a (small however) cap capacity increase. It's a unique bonus indeed, but not always useful (especially if you are in a small gang and don't look to get out). I am with Digital Communist on this one. The high slot was not being used in many setups people use, but the 6th low was very useful. The armor repair bonus, i don't know what to think of it on a ship that is not designed to have a goal of outlasting it's opponents. But it's not bad. To have it though Deimos really needs another pg increase, and frankly it needs some love in agility and speed. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Taius Pax	Posted - 2008.03.01 01:07:00 - [240] Originally by: Poba /signed the deimos attribute changes werent too bad being that it was also recieveing the extra cap to make up for the loss of the MWD bonus, the change it really needed was 6th high slot >> 4th med slot. then the ship would be able to perform as well as it should They weren't "too bad", but they were unnecessary and they're out of sync with how that ship is used. Making changes for the sake of changes is getting old and it ends up screwing people who use the ship. If it were broken I'd understand it, but changing those slots and the MWD bonus changes the ship's role, which sucks if you actually use the ship. The changes to the Deimos were just more crap like Sansha Mk II. The result were some good ships, but it royally ****** anyone who had skilled to fly them. (change armor tanking to shield tanking, change to lasers only...) If there's a problem with a ship, fix it, but changing stuff just to change is annoying to anyone who happens to use it.
piloot idioot	Posted - 2008.03.01 09:23:00 - [241] wel i loved the deimos since before i could fly it.. and i bin training especially for it.. i dont wanan fly an ishtar.. i think it looks silly.. i fly my deimos mostly solo , with all the empire wars etc.. and i was thinking of moving to the astarte.. but when the new slot lay out was announced and i had a chance to test it with a active tank. i really liked what i saw in the deimos again.. altho its true i'd rather sacrifice a high slot for the 4th med. it wasn't a trully bad change.. i lasted longer in the ffa beacons then before while retaining the same damage. with 5 neutron blasters. the cap injector really helps the deimos out.. and the loss of the mwd bonus was nearly fully nullified by the cap bonus. and iw as thinking of delaying my astarte training for 2 more months to get my deimos upto full strenght with hac lvl 5 and blaster spec 5 etc. but now i might just sell my deimos again :(
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.03.01 13:55:00 - [242] oh well, looks like they thrashed the deimos change. \o/ --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Pociomundo Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2008.03.01 19:01:00 - [243] Deimos will not compete with the current buffed Zealot especially after the Armour EM changes. So. 5 High 4 Mid 6 Low 5% Damage, 5% MWD per Gallente Cruiser level. 5% Damage, 7.5% Armour Rep Amount per HAC level. Allows it to compete with the other HACs in close range after changes like the new Sacrilege and Zealot and still facilities it's use in gang pvp.
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.03.01 20:41:00 - [244] Originally by: Pociomundo Deimos will not compete with the current buffed Zealot especially after the Armour EM changes. So. 5 High 4 Mid 6 Low 5% Damage, 5% MWD per Gallente Cruiser level. 5% Damage, 7.5% Armour Rep Amount per HAC level. Allows it to compete with the other HACs in close range after changes like the new Sacrilege and Zealot and still facilities it's use in gang pvp. That won't fix anything. You will still have the grid issues and a wasted bonus. The only thing that setup solves is keeping cap levels at their current level (which were more than the only changes). If there is one bonus that would help the deimos a lot, it would be an armor amount per level or armor resist per level. Of course this would most likely be overpowered so we are going to have to look elsewhere. Making a 180 deg about-face is not the solution that's for sure. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
M1AU Gallente Rheintal Underground Rising	Posted - 2008.03.02 02:43:00 - [245] I just read the official statement on the dev blog: Quote: Update: Based on the feedback we have received on the Deimos changes, we have decided not to implement them and will instead keep an eye it's performance when the patch is released. I think it's a good idea to 'keep an eye' on the it, cough powergrid/speed/weight cough
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.03.02 02:47:00 - [246] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: DigitalCommunist Lame, looks like they caved into whining. Deimos is fine on TQ right now, but its not going to compete with a 5 turret Zealot. Instead of abolishing the whole idea of change, they should have simply abolished the first change. I still want a rep bonus and 4th mid, at the expense of mwd bonus and 6th utility high. The main thing players were against was removal of MWD bonus. The slot changes may be ok. If there is a need to boost the Deimos, it can still be done, just without sacrificing the MWD bonus. There's always more than 1 way to change things. Can't you see that MWD bonus is a very special bonus, its uniqueness should be preserved. Other stats may be changed tho. I don't agree. Low slot matters more than mwd bonus ever will. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.03.02 03:39:00 - [247] Edited by: Spenz on 02/03/2008 03:39:34 Originally by: DigitalCommunist I don't agree. Low slot matters more than mwd bonus ever will. True. If the Zealot really is better than the new deimos, then we should be asking "in what way?" and figuring out how we can improve the deimos, NOT totally remaking its role. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.03.02 06:28:00 - [248] Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: DigitalCommunist Lame, looks like they caved into whining. Deimos is fine on TQ right now, but its not going to compete with a 5 turret Zealot. Instead of abolishing the whole idea of change, they should have simply abolished the first change. I still want a rep bonus and 4th mid, at the expense of mwd bonus and 6th utility high. The main thing players were against was removal of MWD bonus. The slot changes may be ok. If there is a need to boost the Deimos, it can still be done, just without sacrificing the MWD bonus. There's always more than 1 way to change things. Can't you see that MWD bonus is a very special bonus, its uniqueness should be preserved. Other stats may be changed tho. I don't agree. Low slot matters more than mwd bonus ever will. true, but I still believe that if they want to change the deimos, there is a better way than changing the bonuses AND the slots, wich would most likely kill the ship's role tbh --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Kane Darkstar Caldari Fukumaden	Posted - 2008.03.09 07:08:00 - [249] Nice I just found out about this they are not changing it. My glass cannon lives.

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