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Pantaloon McPants	Posted - 2008.02.28 09:30:00 - [331] Originally by: Mr Ballard what goons are doing is what going are doing is what goins are dooning waht gnoons aer doing nisw aht gnoans ra e adoing is whagno taonsgsnaos nsoahsn a snwo snanosn you are a idioueyahdk
McDonALTs	Posted - 2008.02.28 09:34:00 - [332] Edited by: McDonALTs on 28/02/2008 09:36:00 Originally by: Rickroller I don't understand how all you can listen to this. 9/11 is happening in JITA and all you can do is sit back and drink your whiskey and whine. SO WHAT IF GOON are killing ICE MACRO MINERZ in 1.0 space, thats just more minerals for the rest of us. If you have half a brain at all you will realize that this is JUST another ploy to extract the maximum industrial network out of the high sec empire space. Of course, BoB will cry about this too since they can't even hold the Alamo in Delve without going out and buying 1000000000 GTC to fun their pointless war. The thing you have to remember is that when you undock you have RISK vs REWARD and as such earnings are bound to continue despite the goonswarm attacking exhumers. So stop teh QQ, go back to WoW and make ur uber poast. This is a normal thing in EVE PVP and thus it won't stop just because CCP stopped caring about it a long time ago. If you really want to mine Veldspar in high sec just get a BS and put some mining laser on it there problem solved. Come back in 3 months after you've cancelled all your macro miner alt spam accounts and get into the REAL game of EVE so stop spamming the forums with ridiculous talk about how it's soooooo rough when your Bantam gets podded, boo hoo. Why bring bob into this? Goons only started this rampage when bob thwarted their invasion attempt in 0.0, so now goonswarm members are trying to divert attention from their defeats. Goons get GTC's as they sell gtc's and make real live money on them due to the refferal in SC. Remember the IRS got involved at one point because of this? Basically its all a cover to hide the fact goons got their asses kicked by bob in 0.0 recently. Thats why goons are busy killing hulks insted of killing bob. Thats the only logical conclusion, to give goons members some sense of victory.
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.02.28 09:40:00 - [333] Originally by: MotherMoon why would anyone still be mining veld in a hulk? Because the economy needs lots and lots of tritanium, and veldspar is the best way to get it. Veldspar is available at the same quality across sec statuses, so there is no reason to go to lower security space to mine it. Until there is a way to mine low-ends, in low-sec, at low-sec reward levels (i.e. veldspar variants with 50% to 400% yield bonuses, spread through appropriate sec statuses), you will see experienced miners in high-sec belts. If the swarm manage to push all the experienced miners into low-sec, that demand for tritanium is not going to go away. But miners are not going to mine the veld in low-sec unless it offers low-sec levels of reward - as they are out there they'll pick the higher-end ores avaialable, and often veldspar may not even justify the risk of undocking out there. In the absence of higher yielding veldspar versions, this means the tritanium price has to rise if these miners are to continue producing tritanium at the rates they currently are. However, the tritanium price isn't going to rise very far thanks to the shuttle-based price cap. Which means that shifting miners to low-sec/0.0 will inevitably shift the balance of mining capacity from low-end minerals towards high-end ones. Which will end up pushing the price of high-end minerals down, actively discouraging mining in low-sec/0.0 - the exact opposite effect to the one you're trying to create. You'll eventually end up with miners being forced out of the industry completely. The situation in empire won't be what you want either. As soon as the shuttle price cap is hit, it becomes viable for a single character to produce potentially infinite quantities of tritanium without even having to undock and face the suicide squads anymore. The only way new miners will be able to compete with that is to sell at a lower price, meaning that they will not be significantly more profitable than they are at the moment. The proportion of miners in high-sec space currently is a balance defined by the relative value and availability of ores and demand for minerals. Yes, it would be lovely if experienced players could "graduate" up to 0.0 operations. But the current design of ores actively discourages that from happening. Without a change to that design, no player action can hope to achieve the same effect, and with the design change the market will encourage the move without the need for any specific player intervention. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Lonak Silu	Posted - 2008.02.28 09:45:00 - [334] Posting...ehh..sorry : Poasting in a CCP Marketing dept. thread.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.28 10:00:00 - [335] Quote: However, the tritanium price isn't going to rise very far thanks to the shuttle-based price cap. Which means that shifting miners to low-sec/0.0 will inevitably shift the balance of mining capacity from low-end minerals towards high-end ones. Which will end up pushing the price of high-end minerals down, actively discouraging mining in low-sec/0.0 - the exact opposite effect to the one you're trying to create. You'll eventually end up with miners being forced out of the industry completely. The situation in empire won't be what you want either. As soon as the shuttle price cap is hit, it becomes viable for a single character to produce potentially infinite quantities of tritanium without even having to undock and face the suicide squads anymore. The only way new miners will be able to compete with that is to sell at a lower price, meaning that they will not be significantly more profitable than they are at the moment. Shuttle and the other module(forgot what it was) price cap was removed like 2 patches ago, trit prices have come down since then. Oh and the majority of trit comes from loot refine, not mining.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.02.28 10:28:00 - [336] Originally by: Gamesguy Shuttle and the other module(forgot what it was) price cap was removed like 2 patches ago, trit prices have come down since then. Oh and the majority of trit comes from loot refine, not mining. The array reprocessing was nerfed but the shuttle cap is still there.
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.28 10:31:00 - [337] Edited by: Quelque Chose on 28/02/2008 10:32:39 Edited by: Quelque Chose on 28/02/2008 10:32:16 Originally by: Nasta443 The array reprocessing was nerfed but the shuttle cap is still there. True. Once trit hits 3.61 you can make a profit flipping shuttles if you have scrap metal reprocessing 5 and 6.7 standing to an NPC corp. Re: loot as biggest source of trit. Source? ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.02.28 10:34:00 - [338] btw how do i get that thumbnail icon overlay thing that shows on the jihadswarm video? The blue and red squares.
Jarl Isensonn DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.28 10:49:00 - [339] Originally by: McDonALTs Edited by: McDonALTs on 28/02/2008 09:36:00Why bring bob into this? Goons only started this rampage when bob thwarted their invasion attempt in 0.0, so now goonswarm members are trying to divert attention from their defeats. Goons get GTC's as they sell gtc's and make real live money on them due to the refferal in SC. Remember the IRS got involved at one point because of this? Basically its all a cover to hide the fact goons got their asses kicked by bob in 0.0 recently. Thats why goons are busy killing hulks insted of killing bob. Thats the only logical conclusion, to give goons members some sense of victory. Dear Mr Burger. I have only killed one Hulk so far. I am planning to kill a few more the next time I need a skillbook. Spin that into something funny.
Richard Phallus	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:19:00 - [340] Edited by: Richard Phallus on 28/02/2008 11:21:08 So it's "let's force CCP to change the insurance system" day is it? Should make wars more decisive anyway. Best of luck. -- For heresy against CCP by posting images of the sacrificial goat Zulupark you are banished for two weeks - Wrangler
Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:20:00 - [341] Edited by: Thenoran on 28/02/2008 11:24:10 The only that gets me is that a suicide ganker can insure his cheap t1 ship and the insurance will pay out for his criminal act. Its like ramming your car into your neighbours house, completely wrecking both. The police acknowledge that the car driver is the guilty party, but the insurance company still gives him a new car for his troubles. Also, Mackinaws are unfairly CPU gimped compared to the other Barges and they cost about as much as a Hulk at the moment, a Hulk with 3 Strip Miners (60 CPU each) and 2 MLU II's will still have plenty of room for a tank. A Mackinaw needs a +3% CPU implant just to be able to fit the second MLU II, on top of that, Ice Harvester II's require 66 CPU for some reason and not 60. You think that for a 100mil+ you'd get a better deal then that. Not using a Mackinaw with two MLU II's means you are better off Ice Mining in a Hulk with Ice modules Boost Mackinaw CPU and fix the insurance payout for getting CONCORD'ed and then risk/reward is atleast balanced. Also, just because I'm an experienced miner doesn't mean I should go into low-sec or 0.0. I go where I can get the best risk/reward that I want, and low-sec is a deathcrap with crappy ores and 0.0 is a pita to get ore out of aswell as the fact I am not active/online enough for a true 0.0 Alliance commitment. I can make more ISK mining by myself in High-sec currently then going else-where so I'm mining in High-sec, end of story, I go where the best profit is without having to face death too many times. ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh
Kaaii Caldari PixelJuice Design Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:25:00 - [342] I just sold 22 logistic cruisers in geras last nite... thanks goons According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Chony Caldari UNITED STAR SYNDICATE Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.02.28 11:59:00 - [343] Edited by: Chony on 28/02/2008 11:59:57 goons pay just as much as everyone else to play so they have the right to kill cowardly high sec miners
Uncle George	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:01:00 - [344] Originally by: Chony Edited by: Chony on 28/02/2008 11:59:57 goons pay just as much as everyone else to play so they have the right to kill cowardly high sec miners Are you role-playing, or just stupid?
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2008.02.28 12:54:00 - [345] Originally by: Gamesguy Shuttle and the other module(forgot what it was) price cap was removed like 2 patches ago, trit prices have come down since then. The coupling array cap was removed, and trit prices actually rose significantly after that (and are still above that old cap value). The shuttle one wasn't. Dr Eyjog said that it should be removed in one of his reports, but game design hasn't done anything about it. Originally by: Gamesguy Oh and the majority of trit comes from loot refine, not mining. Would defnitely be interested in any data you have to support this claim. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.28 13:17:00 - [346] Originally by: Matthew Originally by: Gamesguy Shuttle and the other module(forgot what it was) price cap was removed like 2 patches ago, trit prices have come down since then. The coupling array cap was removed, and trit prices actually rose significantly after that (and are still above that old cap value). The shuttle one wasn't. Dr Eyjog said that it should be removed in one of his reports, but game design hasn't done anything about it. Originally by: Gamesguy Oh and the majority of trit comes from loot refine, not mining. Would defnitely be interested in any data you have to support this claim. This is the same guy who was lecturing us earlier about how pvp players can run industry just as well as people who are stuck in high sec because they've focused on industry. With "mad indy skillz" like that it's little wonder his alliance has been forced to come raid empire in search of a means of remaining solvent. Reminds me of the BoB guy who hasn't actually seen Concord in god knows how long but tried to tell us in another thread how they work. Apparently these guys don't know much about the empire crowd but they sure do know they hate 'em. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.28 13:52:00 - [347] Originally by: Uncle George Originally by: Chony Edited by: Chony on 28/02/2008 11:59:57 goons pay just as much as everyone else to play so they have the right to kill cowardly high sec miners Are you role-playing, or just stupid? Pretty poor role-play if it is. They seem to have missed that the current economy is based on high-sector mining (otherwise people wouldn't be complaining/celebrating, depending on which side they're on, about the mass import into 0.0 space of cheap materials). As to believing it's cowardly just shows they've never mined in their life. Overall it's a fad, give it some time and make a bundle doing something else for a while. Alternatively, here's an idea, here is a call to every carebear, trader and miner out there in high-sec. You don't like what GoonSwarm is doing? Stop producing. Stop selling. Stop mining. Freeze the game economy and bring EVE to its knees. Show them the real power of carebears. When demand vastly outstrips supply and everything is over-priced, the hordes of new players on STEAM complain they can't buy anything, and the Goons are forced to mine their own minerals to make their swarms of ships, perhaps then we'll have proved a point of our own. Jihad? I think carebears can do better without firing a shot, and people might actually care about that one. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
Zorlag Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:08:00 - [348] Originally by: Thenoran Edited by: Thenoran on 28/02/2008 11:24:10 The only that gets me is that a suicide ganker can insure his cheap t1 ship and the insurance will pay out for his criminal act. Its like ramming your car into your neighbours house, laughing like a maniac, completely wrecking both. The police acknowledge that the car driver is the guilty party, but the insurance company still gives him a new car for his troubles. I fixed this part of your quote for you :)
Skud Lundgren	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:09:00 - [349] ESRB Notice: Game Experience May Change During Online Play
Kerfira University of Caille	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:11:00 - [350] Well, maybe this'll get an end soon (which is too bad really).... According to SHC, BoB are attacking goon held territory. These gankings must really have hit some BoB interests in high-sec hard since they go to this effort to draw goons away from it.... Now, the only question is: Am I using too much tinfoil, or too little? Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Star Dagger Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:16:00 - [351] Edited by: Star Dagger on 28/02/2008 14:21:45 Greetings, I rarely post in the Forums, but this thread has compelled me to go on the record. Firstly I would like to state how i see eve. EVE = Cooperation against Grief. EVE is a hardcore MMO, that is NOT meant to appeal to the middle class masses. It is, in my opinion, a step above in that there is as much danger as you are likely to find in an online game. High-sec with its Concord training wheels will not, and can not, make your mining experience SAFE. And frankly, would you WANT to be completely safe? Sounds like boredom to me. Now whether I agree with the actions the Goons have taken is irrelevant, as are the opinions of the many whiners in this thread. The ONLY thing that will help you is responding to the threat appropriately. Back to my first point, EVE is Cooperation against (or to commit) Grief. You can either cooperate against the 12 (or whatever the number is) Goons or you can come in here and whine about it. Frankly your whining is just a bunch of glowing pixels that will do nothing against the glowing pixels of the Goon forces spanking your aft thrusters. The Goons have shown that they are able to cooperate on such a level as to defeat the forces of BoB and take most of the South. Their accomplishment should be a source of (even if grudging) respect and an inspiration. If 12 coordinated goons can turn Empire upside down, jsut imagine what all the m/whiners (even just the numbers in this thread)could do if organized. The real irony is that a video was circulating not too long ago, of a Hulk luring in would be thieves. I think part of the problem is people think that Empire should be their own personal SAFE isk machine. Wrong. If you want that, GO to one of the many mmos where PvP is consensual. EVE is a rough neighborhood, i have been griefed, ganked, scammed and otherwise treated badly in eve. I am here because it is the best sci-fi game for the PC, and MMO to boot. If you cant handle the cut throat nature of EVE, don't let the stargate hit you on the ass on your way out. (Better yet, grow a pair and join the REAL game down in 0.0) Salutes in the direction of 12 goons who are doing their part to add to the tapestry of EVE Yours in Hardcore Plasma, Star*Dagger P.S. If you are offended by the use of a WORD, you need to be Offended because you are too sensitive to the creative use of an op name.
Dawns	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:19:00 - [352] Goons claims that the minors(miners) of the empire are alt macroteur of whom so laughs, 90 % of the players of Eve having chosen the life in empire Let us call back that the pilots(drivers) of 0.0 represents only 9 % of the players cf the QEN That the economy of 0.0 is just like the politics that this alliance led: politics of the shooting at sight, sterile politics = > sterile economy The economy of the empire is in little meadows healthy, except the macroTagus but, because there's a snag, Us the players of the empire we cannot look which is supposed to be in 0.0 deep, to see practice except charters of the alliance (use of macro of mining or quite other external program facilitating the targeting for example) The pretexts of Goons are deceptive and lies, and has only for only purpose to justify the filling of Let us remind that the players of former(ancient) alliance (cf ex ASCN) practising abuses merged in the others... By this manifesto, I invite the 90 % of the players of the empire to show their reprobation by becoming allied in a unique(only) and inseparable fleet, to clean Eve of her gangrene (" goons ") and to go to destroy(annul) quite their infrastructure of their system Claim. That each take his best Ship to expurgate this evil of the universe!!!
Lucia Warbler Eve University	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:24:00 - [353] Originally by: Kerfira Well, maybe this'll get an end soon (which is too bad really).... According to SHC, BoB are attacking goon held territory. These gankings must really have hit some BoB interests in high-sec hard since they go to this effort to draw goons away from it.... Now, the only question is: Am I using too much tinfoil, or too little? I think it's very nice of them to "attract" the swarm back into 0.0. Premium PR too.
Star Dagger Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:24:00 - [354] Originally by: Dawns Goons claims that the minors(miners) of the empire are alt macroteur of whom so laughs, 90 % of the players of Eve having chosen the life in empire Let us call back that the pilots(drivers) of 0.0 represents only 9 % of the players cf the QEN That the economy of 0.0 is just like the politics that this alliance led: politics of the shooting at sight, sterile politics = > sterile economy The economy of the empire is in little meadows healthy, except the macroTagus but, because there's a snag, Us the players of the empire we cannot look which is supposed to be in 0.0 deep, to see practice except charters of the alliance (use of macro of mining or quite other external program facilitating the targeting for example) The pretexts of Goons are deceptive and lies, and has only for only purpose to justify the filling of Let us remind that the players of former(ancient) alliance (cf ex ASCN) practising abuses merged in the others... By this manifesto, I invite the 90 % of the players of the empire to show their reprobation by becoming allied in a unique(only) and inseparable fleet, to clean Eve of her gangrene (" goons ") and to go to destroy(annul) quite their infrastructure of their system Claim. That each take his best Ship to expurgate this evil of the universe!!! UH WHAT?! Us 0.0 dwellers are either in trouble or a comedy troupe is coming to Tour 0.0 LOL S*D
Calimor Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:25:00 - [355] Edited by: Calimor on 28/02/2008 14:26:18 Originally by: AndrewRyan Words. Hey Andrew. I sacrificed myself three times for the Jihad. I had lots of fun knowing those "newbies" - yes, they were newbies, poor newbies filled with Level V Skills to fly a T2 ship - were suffering, it was pure harassment and joy. I spent around 40 million to destroy 350 million in ships and assets, out of pure sadism, nothing more. I'm a horrible person and agree with everything you say. We're evil, and want to see the suffering of others. The whole combination of the Jihad name with the idea of ruining the "fun" of miners in EVE, be they in Hulks or Bantams is so appealing it makes me feel like it's my single purpose in the game. I wish it was but, alas, I have other things to do. The only thing possibly more boring than mining for hours would be looking for screenshots of said ships for a website By the way, judging by the two Bantams destroyed (which our Leaders probably gave the order to) everyone saying we're ruining the game is right, this will make an insane impact in all the people joining the game through the Steam Trial, since they have a whooping 1% chance of being targeted by a Goon IF they are mining in a Bantam. The chance is much higher for all these trial accounts in Exhumers, though Hope you're happy, because I sure as hell am!
Jdestars Stars Research systems Incorporation	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:28:00 - [356] Edited by: Jdestars on 28/02/2008 14:29:22 Quote: UH WHAT?! Us 0.0 dwellers are either in trouble or a comedy troupe is coming to Tour 0.0 LOL S*D A troupe of 35K of pilote are not a comedy and some of it have more than 70 m sp there are more than 350K of account in eve and 40k in simultanous connection
Thenoran Caldari Frontier Economics	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:32:00 - [357] Edited by: Thenoran on 28/02/2008 14:32:17 Originally by: Calimor Edited by: Calimor on 28/02/2008 14:28:18 Originally by: AndrewRyan Words. Hey Andrew. I sacrificed myself three times for the Jihad. I had lots of fun knowing those "newbies" - yes, they were newbies, poor newbies filled with Level V Skills to fly a T2 ship - were suffering, it was pure harassment and joy. I spent around 40 million to destroy 350 million in ships and assets, out of pure sadism, nothing more. I'm a horrible person and agree with everything you say. We're evil, and want to see the suffering of others. The whole combination of the Jihad name with the idea of ruining the "fun" of miners in EVE, be they in Hulks or Bantams is so appealing it makes me feel like it's my single purpose in the game. I wish it was but, alas, I have other things to do. The only thing possibly more boring than mining for hours would be looking for screenshots of said ships for a website By the way, judging by the two Bantams destroyed (which our Leaders probably gave the order to) everyone saying we're ruining the game is right, this will make an insane impact in all the people joining the game through the Steam Trial, since they have a whooping 1% chance of being targeted by a Goon IF they are mining in a Bantam. The chance is much higher for all these trial accounts in Exhumers, though Hope you're happy, because I sure as hell am! Edit: Please put a bounty on me, if you may. You do know that eventually all you will cause is making the miners band together for protection, meaning larger groups with warships, which clean out belts even faster and can't be ganked as easily. ------------------------ Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh
Calimor Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:37:00 - [358] Originally by: Thenoran Edited by: Thenoran on 28/02/2008 14:32:17 Originally by: Calimor Edited by: Calimor on 28/02/2008 14:28:18 Originally by: AndrewRyan Words. Hey Andrew. I sacrificed myself three times for the Jihad. I had lots of fun knowing those "newbies" - yes, they were newbies, poor newbies filled with Level V Skills to fly a T2 ship - were suffering, it was pure harassment and joy. I spent around 40 million to destroy 350 million in ships and assets, out of pure sadism, nothing more. I'm a horrible person and agree with everything you say. We're evil, and want to see the suffering of others. The whole combination of the Jihad name with the idea of ruining the "fun" of miners in EVE, be they in Hulks or Bantams is so appealing it makes me feel like it's my single purpose in the game. I wish it was but, alas, I have other things to do. The only thing possibly more boring than mining for hours would be looking for screenshots of said ships for a website By the way, judging by the two Bantams destroyed (which our Leaders probably gave the order to) everyone saying we're ruining the game is right, this will make an insane impact in all the people joining the game through the Steam Trial, since they have a whooping 1% chance of being targeted by a Goon IF they are mining in a Bantam. The chance is much higher for all these trial accounts in Exhumers, though Hope you're happy, because I sure as hell am! Edit: Please put a bounty on me, if you may. You do know that eventually all you will cause is making the miners band together for protection, meaning larger groups with warships, which clean out belts even faster and can't be ganked as easily. I would find that absolutely amusing. Alas, it would be useless, as I doubt these large groups would be able to destroy a BS before Concord . And that is the time we have to kill the Hulks anyway. If they do manage, more power to them though. It's within their right to band together with warships and clean out belts even faster (Hahahahaha Macro miners banding together with warships)
Korotani Caldari Darkwater Panthers	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:37:00 - [359] Well at the moment I'm a mission grinder, but my god Goonswarm, Nice one. If you end up popping me in my generic Raven, I won't cry.
Lil'Red Ridin'Hood Snake Assault	Posted - 2008.02.28 14:40:00 - [360] Wait a second... is high-sec preparing a wardec on 0.0? Now, that would be pure comedy to watch those fights. Too bad that high-sec dwellers tend to be the exact opposite of motivated, well organised, well informed, and PvP experienced players. If they were only motivated and well organised, it could already make for an entertaining fight.

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