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Zero Target
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.15 04:55:00 -
[421]
 Originally by: SheriffFruitfly
Originally by: Qarth
There is the point!!! 1 YEAR LATER It takes a year of playing time for the moment you stop training those learning skills to get the time spent back! So is that really worth the investment? 1 year? for sitting in the station for 2 weeks doing nothing but staring at the docking ring the entire time?
Spoken like a true American who wants everything, and they want it now, else they'll whine.
Read the rest of his post, he's arguing to keep learning skills in the game. I guess he's not American? 
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idodido
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.03.15 05:11:00 -
[422]
I agree with the OP in that learning skills are a bad idea.
However its not possible to remove them at this point, unless you boost all chars +10 across all stats.
Simply removing something that gave "veteran" players 25% faster skill training for a couple years pretty much seals the fate for new players. You NEED these skills at some point. They are not optional and the dev's realise this given their prior comments on the skills.
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Zero Target
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.15 05:14:00 -
[423]
Originally by: Cyran Martellus
Threads like this remind me of the folks that returned the original Final Fantasy because: "I didn't know there was reading in it."
Again this mysterious notion that the players who are good at math are somehow lazy or stupid.
If you value your time and you believe EVEMon, you're going to spend a few weeks minimum training learning skills, or you'll regret it later. Unless you don't actually understand what you're giving up by not doing so.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.15 05:23:00 -
[424]
Originally by: Cory II
This thread got me thinking "why didn't I do that?" looking back. So I made an alt and didn't transfer any $$ at all. I sat there with a civilian gatling autocannon that did 1-3 damage, a mining laser, and 5K ISK. I accepted my first combat mission and found that it took me 3 hours of hit & run tactics to finish the 3 waves of enemies that came at me in this lvl 1 mission for 20K ISK.
So my thought process then became, "man I need to do more damage or I'll never finish".
Skill training for doing damage, arming weapons, equipping boosters/repair modules, etc are necessary in order to make the ISK to buy the learning skills. It costs about 20 mil to buy the learning books and anywhere from 5-20 mil for +1 to +3 implants. How is a new player going to do this first with minimal knowledge of how to turn 5K ISK into 50M? It makes no sense even on my second character. If anything, all of the learning skills should be at lvl 1 at least automatically so they don't have to spend 5 mil/book to start learning.
I think the majority of seasoned players who have this mentality forgot this and use hindsight with a full wallet of transferrable $$. It's also easier to leave the alt training learning skills if you have another character to go out shooting stuff with.
I well remember what it was to have 2M SP and every point was precious.
You don't need to get that 50M straight away on the first day. Just accept that your character will not train at 100.00% of the maximum possible Evemon skillplan rate at first. Really, it's not the end of the world.
Remember: you get an 800k SP headstart, something we "seasoned players" didn't - that's almost as many as I had after my first month! And with salvage -easy to skill, easy to do- new players have earning potential vastly in excess of what was available 2 years ago. I didn't get +3s until I was 3 months in game. I survived.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Goumindong
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.15 07:02:00 -
[425]
Originally by: idodido
I agree with the OP in that learning skills are a bad idea.
However its not possible to remove them at this point, unless you boost all chars +10 across all stats.
Simply removing something that gave "veteran" players 25% faster skill training for a couple years pretty much seals the fate for new players. You NEED these skills at some point. They are not optional and the dev's realise this given their prior comments on the skills.
That is pretty much the idea just give everyone those skills maxed. The devs understand it was a bad idea[iirc], and its a bad idea because these are the only skills in the game that don't make you a better pilot in some regard, and they are necessary to "keep up" with any player starting at the same time as you, let alone someone who started much earlier.
Frankly, i wouldn't even care if no one got the skillpoints back. The points do nothing for me except make it harder for newbies to get closer. But I am so far ahead, and anyone who has taken that time is so far ahead the newbie wont ever realistically catch up anyway, and if they do, then the older character will likely have completed a reasonable skill spec.
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WhiteSavage
Dark Force Recon
Blood and Steel
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Posted - 2008.03.15 09:02:00 -
[426]
Learning skills FTL!!! Someone peition something
___________________________________________
..My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes |
Sinnae Takeda
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.16 21:58:00 -
[427]
Originally by: Burnharder
...
What's the point? If you want to invest in faster SP acquisition, you can, if you don't want to, don't. N00bs start the game with loads more SP's than we did when we started out in 2003.
i'm a noob and honestly, buddy, i don't give a rat's behind how much SP you started with N years ago.
what i care about is how repetitive and slow this game is for now.
i'm having my doubts about renewing my first subsription, because this game seems to be trying to bore me to tears...
in terms of motivation the promise of great things to come will only last you for so long.
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Djinn Phluxx
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.17 01:47:00 -
[428]
Originally by: Sinnae Takeda
Originally by: Burnharder
...
What's the point? If you want to invest in faster SP acquisition, you can, if you don't want to, don't. N00bs start the game with loads more SP's than we did when we started out in 2003.
i'm a noob and honestly, buddy, i don't give a rat's behind how much SP you started with N years ago.
what i care about is how repetitive and slow this game is for now.
i'm having my doubts about renewing my first subsription, because this game seems to be trying to bore me to tears...
in terms of motivation the promise of great things to come will only last you for so long.
Just imagine how slow the game would be with no learning skills. Then again, even WITH learning skills you'll be feeling some pain 10 days into that 35 day level V skill you need JUST to be able to train another skill that you'll need up to level 3 before you can get the skill you actually want.
Learning skills are extra...in the game to help us. I hope people in here don't make the mistake of assuming that removing them will result in something else being added. They aren't required...they're bonuses to make your training time go faster. I wouldn't ***** too much lest CCP take them out completely and let you rely on your (up to) 10 less points of attributes to train skills.
And on a side note..I can't believe there's so much whining about something beneficial. "Waaaah...the help you're giving us is too slow...give us MORE help...gimme gimme gimme GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!!!!"
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Mynameistoby
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 01:51:00 -
[429]
Edited by: Mynameistoby on 17/03/2008 01:54:48
Edited by: Mynameistoby on 17/03/2008 01:52:49
As someone who started at 1.27.08 I've trained all learning skills to 4 and cybernetics to 5 and have +5 implants. I have electronics 5, thats the only other skill... so now the game starts for me. Is that the way things should be? I don't know. But I do know that I am in station with about a dozen skill books and won't be doing anything else for the next few months except for training to get into t2 frigates. I thought... hmm... as I know I will be not fighting for a while due to being worried about losing my +5's I'll get a cov ops ship and explore and try not to be an idiot and get podded somehow. I can't sit in gate camps without a battlecruiser but I might be able to run an interceptor well in a couple months in lowsec in a small gang. I offer this up as a new player who's read the forums much more than playing because I haven't had much of anything to do ingame as just my experience and perspective from January 27.
edit. charisma to 2 and no +5 for it
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Nova Fox
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.03.17 01:52:00 -
[430]
/unsign
I rather see an additional non attribute bonus applied to all learning skills to encourage thier training and removal of 'waste of time' notion.
For example the learning skills involved with charisma would reduce market taxes or increase concord/agent pay by a percent per level trained.
How to make feel low sec feel like low sec |
Sinnae Takeda
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 06:02:00 -
[431]
Originally by: Djinn Phluxx
...
And on a side note..I can't believe there's so much whining about something beneficial. "Waaaah...the help you're giving us is too slow...give us MORE help...gimme gimme gimme GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!!!!"
sure, it's beneficial, nobody's arguing about that.
how should i put it?
think of the gameplay aspect of it.
try looking at it from "the outside", instead of from "the inside".
well, i guess eve just isn't for everybody.
gl & hf, pilots *waves*
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Guttripper
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 06:58:00 -
[432]
As I continue to read this thread, I am starting to agree with certain posters requesting the removal of the learning skills and giving everyone +10 in attributes. Since I have already put in the time for the learning skills, I should be allowed to keep my earned +10 in attributes. Then the additional +10 should be added to my grand total. This change will silence the masses from having to do that ~horrible~ grind. And in the long run, I will still be +10 in attributes over someone who did not go my route. The original intention for the learning skills would still be in place except now newbies will never be able to catch up to me. 
So if people are demanding something for nothing with free attributes, I want the same slice of the pie.
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Drasked
North Face Force
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Posted - 2008.03.17 07:32:00 -
[433]
As the fight for having lot's of SP rages on...
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Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.17 12:31:00 -
[434]
Keep them. The problem is only the bad advice given to noobs by absolute fools: namely, do nothing for three months except train learning skills. Possibly the most astonishingly poor piece of advice ever given in this game.
Save the noobs! They are the future 
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.17 12:43:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Guttripper
As I continue to read this thread, I am starting to agree with certain posters requesting the removal of the learning skills and giving everyone +10 in attributes. Since I have already put in the time for the learning skills, I should be allowed to keep my earned +10 in attributes. Then the additional +10 should be added to my grand total. This change will silence the masses from having to do that ~horrible~ grind. And in the long run, I will still be +10 in attributes over someone who did not go my route. The original intention for the learning skills would still be in place except now newbies will never be able to catch up to me.
So if people are demanding something for nothing with free attributes, I want the same slice of the pie.
hahaha!
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Usagi Toshiro
Fringe Financial and Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.17 17:55:00 -
[436]
Originally by: Chith
I forget who was commenting, but at the end of the tourney the stereotypical 'if you could change eve, how would you' question came up. Best response I've ever heard: remove all learning skills. We have new folks coming into the game, interested and curious, and the best advice we can give them is to burn a few months training up a few skills that do absolutely nothing to progress them forward in the game. I personally know a few folks who got burned out merely because of that. I agree, it's tremendously lame.
If there were any kind of sweeping change to the game that I would support, it would be to remove these skills. Whatever system is employed to do this is fine -- personally I wouldn't care if they just took the 2.5mil sp i have in learning away. A change like this would weaken the hegemony of high-sp players and do a lot for the fostering of new players, benefiting everyone.
I don't doubt that this has been posted before. Maybe this time it can get some traction and be included with the next patch (the one after march 11th).
Why when the game started in 2003, we had to fly uphill to school, BOTH WAYS! In the snow! ...
They help players train a wee bit faster. They help pull ISKies out of the economy and they aren't required.
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Maltitol
Tides of Silence
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.17 17:59:00 -
[437]
When i was new, i had 150k sp...
i spent 2 months training cool stuff before i spent another month doing nothing but learning skills. it sucked. hard. i really wish i had trained them first... but looking back at it, i wouldnt of stayed if i trained them first.... but am glad i have them now, because my stats are crap without them, but really... remove them.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Well boohoo |
nahtoh
Bull Industries
United For 0rder
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Posted - 2008.03.17 18:10:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Miss Anthropy
This is a good idea actually. Learning skills probably do more to turn people off the game than anything else. Who wants to play a game where, in order to learn new skills, you have to learn skills that help you learn skills faster? This is dumb and is a huge time sink on new players who just want to get into the action.
Dumb is doing it and then whinning about not having done anything for months. You have the option of doing this, no one has to do it.
I still have not maxed all my learning skills for instance.
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
OwlManAtt
Yasashii Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.03.17 20:29:00 -
[439]
Earlier in this threadnought, I posted in support of removing the learning skills and giving everybody a +10 boost to their attributes. I called them a fun tax.
After reading through all of this, I would like to pull a Kerry and completely reverse my position.
The learning skills are, indeed, a fun tax, as are all of the skills in the game. They're all intended to be time sinks you have to brave before you can use a cool new piece of equipment.
EVE was never intended to be a fast-paced shoot-em-up. It was intended to be a game of tactics, logistics, commerce, and, above all, careful planning. Anything that removes a factor that the player can control about their character, internets spaceship, or business is reducing how much planning goes in to being successful in EVE. It's something that a newbie who joined on 2008-03-17 can use to unlevel the playing field and get a one-up on another newbie, one who joined on the same day, that failed to do his homework.
But, we have a faction that wishes to see the learning skills removed so that new players do not have to invest time in bringing them all to five. The best compromises should leave everybody ****es off, so I can certainly make some concessions.
Two months is a lot of time to spend, even on +10 to your attributes. I would propose that the advanced learning skills be removed from the game entirely, the basic skills all provide you with +2, and the basic learning skills be changed to rank 2 instead of rank 1 skills.
People with the advanced learning skills would have the bonuses provided by those skills moved in to the basic skills. A character with +10 charisma would retain its full +10. A character with 4/4 would keep its +8 bonus.
Some SP would be lost, yes. The net loss is less than you would experience if learning skills were ripped out of the game entirely. In the grand scheme of things, that loss is meaningless, as every other veteran character would feel it. Your SP has dropped relative to everybody else's. SP is a very meaningless figure, anyway.
Yes, time spent training (part of) the advanced learning skills is now 'thrown away'. You have gotten the benefit of training these skills when others chose not to train them to reap the reward. You cannot consider it a waste of time.
---
SVP OwlManAtt, Yasashii Syndicate |
Zero Target
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.03.17 23:40:00 -
[440]
Edited by: Zero Target on 17/03/2008 23:41:28
Originally by: Mynameistoby
Edited by: Mynameistoby on 17/03/2008 01:54:48
Edited by: Mynameistoby on 17/03/2008 01:52:49
As someone who started at 1.27.08 I've trained all learning skills to 4 and cybernetics to 5 and have +5 implants. I have electronics 5, thats the only other skill... so now the game starts for me. Is that the way things should be? I don't know. But I do know that I am in station with about a dozen skill books and won't be doing anything else for the next few months except for training to get into t2 frigates. I thought... hmm... as I know I will be not fighting for a while due to being worried about losing my +5's I'll get a cov ops ship and explore and try not to be an idiot and get podded somehow. I can't sit in gate camps without a battlecruiser but I might be able to run an interceptor well in a couple months in lowsec in a small gang. I offer this up as a new player who's read the forums much more than playing because I haven't had much of anything to do ingame as just my experience and perspective from January 27.
edit. charisma to 2 and no +5 for it
Hello Caldari Achura Inventor. 
Also, buy a Jump Clone so you don't have to risk your expensive implants.
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Zero Target
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 23:45:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Guttripper
The original intention for the learning skills would still be in place except now newbies will never be able to catch up to me.
First MMO?
Newbies always catch up, and at a rate that makes veterans cry.
Why? Because newbies aren't stupid and won't invest their time into a game where they can never compete with veterans, and by "can never compete" I mean "can't compete in a hurry".
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Zero Target
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.17 23:51:00 -
[442]
Originally by: OwlManAtt
The learning skills are, indeed, a fun tax, as are all of the skills in the game. They're all intended to be time sinks you have to brave before you can use a cool new piece of equipment.
What cool new piece of equipment is unlocked when you train learning skills? 
That's sort of the point of the "fun tax" argument, grinding to unlock a cool ship or weapon can be fun but grinding to be able to grind faster is sort of a... meta-grind?
At any rate it sucks. 
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Voluptificus
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.18 23:55:00 -
[443]
Quote:
meta-grind
Wonderful expression.
I will keep on playing WoW during my meta-grind time, let's say 5/5 rank 1 and 4/5 rank 3 learning skills.
I love Eve and maths, that's why I'm sitting in a station playing other games..and suddenly, while killing a monster the Eve's voice tells me, through the multi-task OS, "Skill completed !".
What a delight !
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banannagirl
The U-B-H-C
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Posted - 2008.03.19 00:01:00 -
[444]
Originally by: Chith
I forget who was commenting, but at the end of the tourney the stereotypical 'if you could change eve, how would you' question came up. Best response I've ever heard: remove all learning skills. We have new folks coming into the game, interested and curious, and the best advice we can give them is to burn a few months training up a few skills that do absolutely nothing to progress them forward in the game. I personally know a few folks who got burned out merely because of that. I agree, it's tremendously lame.
If there were any kind of sweeping change to the game that I would support, it would be to remove these skills. Whatever system is employed to do this is fine -- personally I wouldn't care if they just took the 2.5mil sp i have in learning away. A change like this would weaken the hegemony of high-sp players and do a lot for the fostering of new players, benefiting everyone.
I don't doubt that this has been posted before. Maybe this time it can get some traction and be included with the next patch (the one after march 11th).
I suggested only earlier that if they implemented the learning skills as mission rewards .. IE learning trait LEVELS as mission rewards or exp-loration as an added bonus to skill trainning in effect you would have fly to progress type skill trainning ... !
Do a mission and you get say 2 levels of instant recall or whatever
regards
BG
Link removed, advertising services for real world money is not allowed on the forums - Wrangler |
banannagirl
The U-B-H-C
|
Posted - 2008.03.19 00:04:00 -
[445]
Originally by: banannagirl
Originally by: Chith
I forget who was commenting, but at the end of the tourney the stereotypical 'if you could change eve, how would you' question came up. Best response I've ever heard: remove all learning skills. We have new folks coming into the game, interested and curious, and the best advice we can give them is to burn a few months training up a few skills that do absolutely nothing to progress them forward in the game. I personally know a few folks who got burned out merely because of that. I agree, it's tremendously lame.
If there were any kind of sweeping change to the game that I would support, it would be to remove these skills. Whatever system is employed to do this is fine -- personally I wouldn't care if they just took the 2.5mil sp i have in learning away. A change like this would weaken the hegemony of high-sp players and do a lot for the fostering of new players, benefiting everyone.
I don't doubt that this has been posted before. Maybe this time it can get some traction and be included with the next patch (the one after march 11th).
I suggested only earlier that if they implemented the learning skills as mission rewards .. IE learning trait LEVELS as mission rewards or exp-loration as an added bonus to skill trainning in effect you would have fly to progress type skill trainning ... !
Do a mission and you get say 2 levels of instant recall or whatever
regards
BG
In regards to your 70 million sp's
I have been playing for four years near enough and my skills with the first learning skills all at level three and have been at level three for ages (i just started to train my learning after all this time)
I have a grand total yesterday of 15 million 5000000 skill points lmao .....!
They matter so much i cant tell you about it...!
regards
BG
Link removed, advertising services for real world money is not allowed on the forums - Wrangler |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
Black-Out
|
Posted - 2008.03.19 00:05:00 -
[446]
Originally by: banannagirl
Originally by: Chith
I forget who was commenting, but at the end of the tourney the stereotypical 'if you could change eve, how would you' question came up. Best response I've ever heard: remove all learning skills. We have new folks coming into the game, interested and curious, and the best advice we can give them is to burn a few months training up a few skills that do absolutely nothing to progress them forward in the game. I personally know a few folks who got burned out merely because of that. I agree, it's tremendously lame.
If there were any kind of sweeping change to the game that I would support, it would be to remove these skills. Whatever system is employed to do this is fine -- personally I wouldn't care if they just took the 2.5mil sp i have in learning away. A change like this would weaken the hegemony of high-sp players and do a lot for the fostering of new players, benefiting everyone.
I don't doubt that this has been posted before. Maybe this time it can get some traction and be included with the next patch (the one after march 11th).
I suggested only earlier that if they implemented the learning skills as mission rewards .. IE learning trait LEVELS as mission rewards or exp-loration as an added bonus to skill trainning in effect you would have fly to progress type skill trainning ... !
Do a mission and you get say 2 levels of instant recall or whatever
regards
BG
Actually, that's a pretty clever idea. Pity it wasn't done that way in the first place tbh.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
SheriffFruitfly
FlyinPenguin Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 00:33:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Qarth
Sherifffruitfly & Vincent Lionhart,
Did either one of you actually read what was written or do you have a problem with reading comprehension?
As stands right now, it looks as if neather one of you got the point or you just didn't bother to read past the 1st paragraph.
Typical European elitism, founded on the principles of false superiority and an over inflated sense of your own self worth.
Um, I'm American, fool.
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Vinez
British Federation
Sleepless Knights Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.20 00:50:00 -
[448]
Edited by: Vinez on 20/03/2008 00:54:06
If instead of learning skills it was some missions someone had to complete that would then enable them to learn skills faster - maybe part of storyline missions..then I don't see a problem with it - as it enables people to choose to do those missions - and they'll be rewarded for their efforts.
The reason I have an issue with learning skills is because it is a SET DURATION timesink. In all other mmorpg's you have control over how long you spend getting exp/gear etc. - but with eve's system of training (which I find works great for normal skills) it just cannot apply to learning skills. There is no way something that is so crucial to a characters development should take 2 months of playtime WHEN THERE IS NOTHING THEY CAN DO TO SPEED THAT UP! They basically cannot make any advances during that 2 months with their character apart from in finances/standings both of which are not as satisfactory in skills.
Personally I think move it to part of some initial storyline missions then if people want to spend 40 hours doing storyline missions in a week and unlock all "learning abilities" then they can do..and if they just plod through and end up doing the missions over a long period of time then that's fine too..but at least you are allowing them to choose WITHOUT compromising their enjoyment of the game.
Risk vs reward is a system that works - its a trade off and they can choose and its fun.
Trading off a SET 2 month period now for an advantage in a year+ time is not fun.
Who felt like they had achieved anything when they had finished training learning skills?
I know I didn't.
At least if you implement my suggestion people will feel both more satisfaction when they complete set missions as they'll feel the growth of their character improving as they unlock faster learning ability and watch their training time dropping in real time and will not be put off by frankly boring and restrictive elements of Eve.
It even allows the players who feel annoyed at having spent all that time training learning skills to feel a bit better as the new players aren't given an easy ride as such - they still have to earn their ability to learn faster - but its in a way that is fun and where they are in control.
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Avon
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.03.20 09:53:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Vinez
Edited by: Vinez on 20/03/2008 00:54:06
If instead of learning skills it was some missions someone had to complete that would then enable them to learn skills faster - maybe part of storyline missions..then I don't see a problem with it - as it enables people to choose to do those missions - and they'll be rewarded for their efforts.
The reason I have an issue with learning skills is because it is a SET DURATION timesink. In all other mmorpg's you have control over how long you spend getting exp/gear etc. - but with eve's system of training (which I find works great for normal skills) it just cannot apply to learning skills. There is no way something that is so crucial to a characters development should take 2 months of playtime WHEN THERE IS NOTHING THEY CAN DO TO SPEED THAT UP! They basically cannot make any advances during that 2 months with their character apart from in finances/standings both of which are not as satisfactory in skills.
Personally I think move it to part of some initial storyline missions then if people want to spend 40 hours doing storyline missions in a week and unlock all "learning abilities" then they can do..and if they just plod through and end up doing the missions over a long period of time then that's fine too..but at least you are allowing them to choose WITHOUT compromising their enjoyment of the game.
Risk vs reward is a system that works - its a trade off and they can choose and its fun.
Trading off a SET 2 month period now for an advantage in a year+ time is not fun.
Who felt like they had achieved anything when they had finished training learning skills?
I know I didn't.
At least if you implement my suggestion people will feel both more satisfaction when they complete set missions as they'll feel the growth of their character improving as they unlock faster learning ability and watch their training time dropping in real time and will not be put off by frankly boring and restrictive elements of Eve.
It even allows the players who feel annoyed at having spent all that time training learning skills to feel a bit better as the new players aren't given an easy ride as such - they still have to earn their ability to learn faster - but its in a way that is fun and where they are in control.
Absolutely disagree.
You are suggesting that the learning skills should be replaced with an effort based grind, rewarding players with more time on their hands?
It is still a timesink, and puts barriers up in front of it too. If the missions are really easy then it is just a timesink, and if they are hard you are basically putting a limit on who can do them - and obstacle to overcome before you can even do the grind.
How is that better than the learning skills?
There is nothing wrong with missions giving implants, because either people can grind to earn the attirbutes, or sell the implants to profit from those who do not wish to run missions; but missions for attributes totally sucks as an idea, and is very un-Eve.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
BiggestT
Fun Inc
Black-Out
|
Posted - 2008.03.20 10:06:00 -
[450]
Originally by: Vincent Lionhart
*Puts on flame suit*
Alright 'tards. And I am referring to the people who say learning skills are a choice. When I first started out EvE, people kept encouraging me to get learning skills. After looking at attributes, I realized how useful they were as well. Back then, Tier 2 training skills were not out yet so getting training skills to lvl 4 was all we needed.
Now for the morons who think that this is an "optional" skill. Why don't you look at your own skill tree and tell me if it's there. Is it optional? That is about the dumbest argument I've heard in my life. In Final Fantasy XI, using macros was "optional" and if you didn't you gonna get the boot outta the party. City of Heroes, Hasten is "optional, and so is Stamina, again if you don't get it, you will get flamed and have difficulties.
The hell do you mean by optional? People encourage newbs to get the skills, and any newb with a brain can see how useful the skills are. So while they're ignoring these "optional" skills, the skills will be pounding on their brains reminding them that they need to be trained at some point in the game.
Optional? Crappiest argument ever.
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BOOM! hit the nail on the head! IMO they should just take away adv and learning skills and give every1 the bonus achieved by said skills, no one loses every1 wins..the diff is the same and damn right with hte "optional" point, hell NO will you find a mature player without relatively high sp in learning...
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