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View from 70+ sp player: remove all learning skills from game

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George Techeye	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:45:00 - [121] Originally by: Bohoba all these wine and no sugestions skill training is why I stay in the game if it turns to a you got to kill xxxx before you can operate that mod a grinding power lvl game I would have to give it up that is not my game eve is one of a kind you guys sound like wow players please leave find another game and to the op hehe go play wow or f2 bet you bounce right back here lol and the discussion degenerates into STFU GTFO sigh.
Dramund Amarr Atonement Arms	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:50:00 - [122] Originally by: George Techeye and the discussion degenerates into STFU GTFO sigh. But of course, everyone knows that "best = flawless in every conceivable way." That's why the plow was the beginning and end of all agricultural development.
Bohoba Caldari dragons nest imPure.	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:53:00 - [123] Originally by: George Techeye Originally by: Bohoba all these wine and no sugestions skill training is why I stay in the game if it turns to a you got to kill xxxx before you can operate that mod a grinding power lvl game I would have to give it up that is not my game eve is one of a kind you guys sound like wow players please leave find another game and to the op hehe go play wow or f2 bet you bounce right back here lol and the discussion degenerates into STFU GTFO sigh. thats because of 5 pages of wine and no suggetions :) Windows VistaÖ Ultimate x64-based PC Gigabyte X38-DQ6 Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Extreme CPU Q6850 Memory 4,093.69 MB 2X Crossfire ASUS EAH3870/G/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 3870 512MB
jita pc232323	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:53:00 - [124] /signed The easiest solution would be to give all characters L5 in all learning skills. For new characters the creation system can be kept, but give L5 skills as part of the basic skills package. Players can still create characters that train certain skill groups faster, just everyone starts on a level playing field.
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:56:00 - [125] I've got approximately 7M SP in learning across my characters... so I've MADE the decision that it was worth it. My suggestion: - Give everyone the attributes that would be granted by L5 learning skills - Give those who spent the time training up learning the SP that they have in learning in something else (petition or automated process hopefully). Done. Problem solved. -Liang -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
George Techeye	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:59:00 - [126] Originally by: Bohoba Originally by: George Techeye Originally by: Bohoba all these wine and no sugestions skill training is why I stay in the game if it turns to a you got to kill xxxx before you can operate that mod a grinding power lvl game I would have to give it up that is not my game eve is one of a kind you guys sound like wow players please leave find another game and to the op hehe go play wow or f2 bet you bounce right back here lol and the discussion degenerates into STFU GTFO sigh. thats because of 5 pages of wine and no suggetions :) Plenty of suggestions were made on how to deal with it. Perhaps if you read the thread again you might see them.
Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:02:00 - [127] Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 10/03/2008 21:04:34 Originally by: jita pc232323 /signed The easiest solution would be to give all characters L5 in all learning skills. For new characters the creation system can be kept, but give L5 skills as part of the basic skills package. Players can still create characters that train certain skill groups faster, just everyone starts on a level playing field. ..... might as well give them all the same toon then as well, perhaps everyone should get free +5 implants as well. Have you people honestly thought about what your proposing, i think not. I'll say it again, stupid is as stupid says and stupid does, just because people give stupid advise does not warrant a change in game mechanics, if their advise angers you then go pod them or go to another game, you'll be replaced by someone who can understand how to play. People want everything without the work/wait, how many whiners here are you C.A.'s ... continued overleaf
George Techeye	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:05:00 - [128] Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Originally by: jita pc232323 /signed The easiest solution would be to give all characters L5 in all learning skills. For new characters the creation system can be kept, but give L5 skills as part of the basic skills package. Players can still create characters that train certain skill groups faster, just everyone starts on a level playing field. ..... might as well give them all the same toon then as well, perhaps everyone should get free +5 implants as well. Have you people honestly thought about what your proposing, i think not. I'll say it again, stupid is as stupid says and stupid does, just because people give stupid advise does not warrant a change in game mechanics, if their advise angers you then go pod them or go to another game, you'll be replaced by someone who can understand how to play. The CCP Devs have stated they regret ever having put training skills in the game. It has turned into nothing more than a fun tax and they wish they had not done it.
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:08:00 - [129] Originally by: George Techeye The CCP Devs have stated they regret ever having put training skills in the game. It has turned into nothing more than a fun tax and they wish they had not done it. Link to this statement?
Bohoba Caldari dragons nest imPure.	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:08:00 - [130] Edited by: Bohoba on 10/03/2008 21:10:20 Originally by: George Techeye Plenty of suggestions were made on how to deal with it. Perhaps if you read the thread again you might see them. ''' ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I've got approximately 7M SP in learning across my characters... so I've MADE the decision that it was worth it. My suggestion: - Give everyone the attributes that would be granted by L5 learning skills - Give those who spent the time training up learning the SP that they have in learning in something else (petition or automated process hopefully). Done. Problem solved. -Liang .............................................. those type of suggetions won't work all the suggetions are for the new players and nothing for the older player BASE you see I did read I think you need to re read what all you want is to be able to fly a titan 2 days after you join eve eve is not a wash board game like wow eve is very vast and open to all types of game play unlike anyother online game it is simple if you don't like it leave go fine a game the sutes you Windows VistaÖ Ultimate x64-based PC Gigabyte X38-DQ6 Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Extreme CPU Q6850 Memory 4,093.69 MB 2X Crossfire ASUS EAH3870/G/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 3870 512MB
Iwillbeheard	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:13:00 - [131] Whats point of having skills at all? Lets just have everything at creation is that what you're trying to say? Oh some noobs followed bad advice or couldnt stick it, so what? they wouldn't last in Eve anyway. People that fall at the first hurdle are useless and would quit after being ganked etc...
Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:15:00 - [132] Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 10/03/2008 21:15:47 Originally by: George Techeye The CCP Devs have stated they regret ever having put training skills in the game. It has turned into nothing more than a fun tax and they wish they had not done it. That is not relevent its here, nerfing it is not an option, they would have done it by now if it caused them to lose money, as it is it limits player base and therefore lag. Umm i had a look, you are a Caldari Achura, School of Applied Knowledge of nearly 3 months standing, says it all doesn't it. edited to remove an insult that was fitting but not very mature. ... continued overleaf
jita pc232323	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:16:00 - [133] Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 10/03/2008 21:04:34 ..... might as well give them all the same toon then as well, perhaps everyone should get free +5 implants as well. Have you people honestly thought about what your proposing, i think not. I don't think you understand what's being proposed. The character creation system generates attributes according to your characters chosen specialisation. These attributes determine which skill groups you train faster. So giving people L5 learning skills still means that fighters train ship/gunnery/missiles etc faster than a researcher. As for implants, these would reward people for training cybernetics and making an investment - useful, but not critical to unlocking key game components during your early EVE experience.
Dramund Amarr Atonement Arms	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:17:00 - [134] I really think its too late to do anything and its really not that bad, but its too late to say anything. If I had a dime for every attempt at constructive criticism ruined by jabbering fanboys, I'd have a ****load of dimes. EVE fanboys are also the worst because they think the harder they like EVE, the smarter they are.
George Techeye	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:18:00 - [135] Originally by: Bohoba a bunch of messed up quotes and then you said: those type of suggetions won't work all the suggetions are for the new players and nothing for the older player BASE you see I did read I think you need to re read what all you want is to be able to fly a titan 2 days after you join eve eve is not a wash board game like wow eve is very vast and open to all types of game play unlike anyother online game it is simple if you don't like it leave go fine a game the sutes you Ok clearly you cant read and are just out to troll, so i will respond in the same way. What part of Give those who trained learning already compensation skillpoints to put into other skill sof their choice dont you understand? And where has anyone said they want to fly a titan after a few days of eve? I dont even want to fly a titan ever. No thanks thats not my in game goal. Stop your trolling and GTFO. If your too myopic to see how improving the gaming experience for new players and compensating older players with skillpoints to spend as they choose is anything other than whining then your...well...i dont know how to put it politly...but lets just say if you married into my family i would have to get you sterilized.
Iwillbeheard	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:21:00 - [136] Originally by: jita pc232323 Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 10/03/2008 21:04:34 ..... might as well give them all the same toon then as well, perhaps everyone should get free +5 implants as well. Have you people honestly thought about what your proposing, i think not. I don't think you understand what's being proposed. The character creation system generates attributes according to your characters chosen specialisation. These attributes determine which skill groups you train faster. So giving people L5 learning skills still means that fighters train ship/gunnery/missiles etc faster than a researcher. As for implants, these would reward people for training cybernetics and making an investment - useful, but not critical to unlocking key game components during your early EVE experience. You want everything handed to you on a plate? If you never try for anything your'll never want thus leave through boredem
George Techeye	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:26:00 - [137] Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 10/03/2008 21:15:47 Originally by: George Techeye The CCP Devs have stated they regret ever having put training skills in the game. It has turned into nothing more than a fun tax and they wish they had not done it. That is not relevent its here, nerfing it is not an option, they would have done it by now if it caused them to lose money, as it is it limits player base and therefore lag. Umm i had a look, you are a Caldari Achura, School of Applied Knowledge of nearly 3 months standing, says it all doesn't it. edited to remove an insult that was fitting but not very mature. its an alt you twit. Insult left in to compensate for your blatent ad hominem attack.
Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:27:00 - [138] Originally by: jita pc232323 Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 10/03/2008 21:04:34 ..... might as well give them all the same toon then as well, perhaps everyone should get free +5 implants as well. Have you people honestly thought about what your proposing, i think not. I don't think you understand what's being proposed. The character creation system generates attributes according to your characters chosen specialisation. These attributes determine which skill groups you train faster. So giving people L5 learning skills still means that fighters train ship/gunnery/missiles etc faster than a researcher. As for implants, these would reward people for training cybernetics and making an investment - useful, but not critical to unlocking key game components during your early EVE experience. Umm.. i do understand, what is being proposed is the penalisation (further) of the existing more mature player base who did those extra few days training, but it does give them the added benifit of getting more noobs to die in a shorter space of time played. The reason they are different is to give different people choices, why do you think there are so many Caldari Achura, because people don't have any imagination, flexability or basic criticial thinking skills. IMHO you don't want to play eve, because i doubt that you understand what CCP has built. ... continued overleaf
Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:30:00 - [139] Originally by: George Techeye [its an alt you twit. Insult left in to compensate for your blatent ad hominem attack. Well why post with an alt, thats Trolling par excellence, post with your main or are you a) too embarassed by your main, or b) ashamed you thought of starting this thead. ... continued overleaf
George Techeye	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:33:00 - [140] Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Originally by: jita pc232323 Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 10/03/2008 21:04:34 ..... might as well give them all the same toon then as well, perhaps everyone should get free +5 implants as well. Have you people honestly thought about what your proposing, i think not. I don't think you understand what's being proposed. The character creation system generates attributes according to your characters chosen specialisation. These attributes determine which skill groups you train faster. So giving people L5 learning skills still means that fighters train ship/gunnery/missiles etc faster than a researcher. As for implants, these would reward people for training cybernetics and making an investment - useful, but not critical to unlocking key game components during your early EVE experience. Umm.. i do understand, what is being proposed is the penalisation (further) of the existing more mature player base who did those extra few days training, but it does give them the added benifit of getting more noobs to die in a shorter space of time played. The reason they are different is to give different people choices, why do you think there are so many Caldari Achura, because people don't have any imagination, flexability or basic criticial thinking skills. IMHO you don't want to play eve, because i doubt that you understand what CCP has built. Wait how is giving the existing users who have trained learning skills, skill point compensation to use at their discretion penalizing them? Your objection fails because its based on clearly not understanding what is beign suggested. We are offering a win win and all you are seeing is whine whine. Maybe you need to train Comprehension to level 5.
George Techeye	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:34:00 - [141] Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Originally by: George Techeye [its an alt you twit. Insult left in to compensate for your blatent ad hominem attack. Well why post with an alt, thats Trolling par excellence, post with your main or are you a) too embarassed by your main, or b) ashamed you thought of starting this thead. More ad hominem attacks...no wonder your name is brainless bimbo...see what i did there?
Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:53:00 - [142] Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 10/03/2008 21:54:31 Originally by: George Techeye Wait how is giving the existing users who have trained learning skills, skill point compensation to use at their discretion penalizing them? Your objection fails because its based on clearly not understanding what is beign suggested. We are offering a win win and all you are seeing is whine whine. Maybe you need to train Comprehension to level 5. How do you work out skill point compensation, umm add all skill points lost by not having them, that just penalised people who trained basic skills to lvl 5 quickly, those that considered thier options and didn't do it, having a longer term view of the game, get far more compensation, understand, peoples choices impact it too much. i have no skill learnt attribute increace as i know that in the first months its not important, i trained cybenetics and got implants, after all getting em free in the noob tutorial was a good pointer as what to do. This game is about choices, your choices affect you in a way other mmo's don't give you, that is what makes eve, eve. If its too slow for you, leave, don't try to mold it to follow other lesser mmo's. lolsaid 4 not 5 ... continued overleaf
Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:08:00 - [143] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i worked my way to having a Battlecruiser before taking Learning skills seriously, figured i should be somewhat effective at combat before taking side skills on. Quoted for intellegence shown. ... continued overleaf
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:12:00 - [144] It's much more efficient for a new player to get out with training the basics to lvl3-4 for starters, earn isk and plug in some learning implants that missing out on the cool stuff at the begining of the game. If you're a new player you have to specialise at first and that's it. Don't miss out! (not that I'd mind trading all my lvl5 learnings for something else ofc )
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:12:00 - [145] Originally by: Bohoba those type of suggetions won't work all the suggetions are for the new players and nothing for the older player BASE you see I did read I think you need to re read The new players get: - Not having to train learning skills The old players get: - Not having to train learning skills - Their SP back You can also stop with the random flames. They are unnecessary and do not support your point. Also, I have quite an investment in player skills, character skills, and learning skills. -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:26:00 - [146] Edited by: Avon on 10/03/2008 22:26:23 Originally by: Liang Nuren The old players get: - Not having to train learning skills - Their SP back Do I get the SP I would have gained if I had started with training maxed, back before the advanced learning skills were available? Or do I get penalised for the 5 points per attribute that just weren't available back then? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Sekket Caldari White-Noise	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:26:00 - [147] Originally by: Andrue No, that's the wrong reply. The correct reply is: "Stop rushing. Enjoy the experience of playing the game." Eve is not a game for the instant gratification crowd. If Learning skills are putting people off then they are serving a useful purpose. New players need to be taught what Eve really is not given a leg up by cheapening the system. I often tell people that EvE is more of an "enjoy the journey" type of game rather than a race to max level type of game. But really, can you say that while training your learning skills that they're contributing to you enjoying your journey?
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:33:00 - [148] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 10/03/2008 22:26:23 Originally by: Liang Nuren The old players get: - Not having to train learning skills - Their SP back Do I get the SP I would have gained if I had started with training maxed, back before the advanced learning skills were available? Or do I get penalised for the 5 points per attribute that just weren't available back then? I'd personally say that you get all things moving forward - exactly as I would... exactly as everyone does. -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:41:00 - [149] Anyone arguing for the removal of learning skills is overvaluing the worth of skill points over time, and needs to unlearn what they have learned in other games about experience being all that matters, because it simply does not apply to Eve. Think about this for a second. For 18 months in 2006 and 2007 I was training to fly capital ships. That means for 18 months I wasn't improving in any other field (pre-req flow-on effects aside), and for 18 months a new player could have accumulated skills in several other fields to compete with me in almost any other situation, which would be the great majority of the time as I actually rarely fly capitals on the whole. Diminishing returns, people. The more SP you have, the less they matter. I don't have maxed learning skills either, and I'm fine with that. They are a personal choice after all, and nothing more. Leave them as is. /Ben How to fix Eve
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:42:00 - [150] Compensate me for the SP count in Learning, and then I am fine with it. If not, then "they" the noobs, should do the same thing I was when I started.

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