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 Iynara Maeral    |
Posted - 2004.05.09 02:19:00 -
[151] Let me just say before I begin that I've read this whole topic and I've seen a lot of good points made. Let me also add that I am a miner and trader, with level 1 medium hybrid and sharpshooter 1 for my most powerful gunnery skills, though my skill points are in the millions. Obviously I don't care for PvP and I would prefer to avoid as much combat as possible for now and quite some time in the future. This is not to say, however, that I am a 'carebear' or some whiney noob looking to avoid anything at all exciting. Quite the contrary. Pirates are an important part of the game, that's just the way it is. Ying and yang, black and white, good and evil, you have to have one to have the other. Not to mention their importance to eve politics, corporations, alliances and the market! And just plain keeping the game exciting. I could list all the reasons but it would make this post too long; contact me if you want them all. And let me just say that those who claim it ruins the game experience.. speak for yourself. Perhaps this game is not for you; too bad EnB isn't around anymore it would have been good for you. I also agree with the statements made that benefits need to be added for both positive and negative status. And that a decay of negative status would be good to bring back, seeing as 0.01 per day is piddle considering that a month is a huge amount of game-time and it will only net you a 3.0 increase.. And I think it would be an excellent idea if we did as Chepe Nolon suggested and make the decay scaled to your history of violent offenses. Perhaps for people with no history, 0.01 decay, bad history down to 0.005 and cap it to -0.1, and good history up to 0.02. This would protect those who accidently killed or killed in defense, and so on. It would also establish those who desire to remain pirates in the long term, who obviously shouldn't care about their sec status. I think it would be fairly simple to put in an extra variable or two that just count the number of previous offenses and against what sec status folks they were commited against, and the decay could be graded against that. Also, fix that bug where people can be high sec and avoid hits to sec when killing..that's a nasty one. The ten minute period, highest bounty sec gain doesn't seem right to me. After all, what about when frigates get more useful soon, and what about newbies, etc? After all, killing a whole bunch of new recruits into evil-doing is as good law-keeping as knocking out a big nob. However even Dezzyb0y's good suggestion of daily npc ship class based cap doesn't neccisarily cut it, as it still means limitations based on experience level of the pilot. So.. lets add on to that and ask.. what if you made your sec status increase based not on what you accomplish but how much time and effort you put into it? After all is that not more a measurement of your dedication to preserving peace than how big the baddy you killed is? So keep a time based function, but make it something like this: - Let us say for convenience sake 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 represent five different amounts of sec gain. - Now say that each npc pirate you've killed gives you one of these five point levels. - If you are flying a frigate you get 3 points for killing an npc frigate of low level (2-8 say for caldari), 4 for killing mid level, and 5 for killing the biggest frigate pirates. - A cruiser pilot would gain just 2 points for any but the most powerful frigates, 3 points for the most powerful frigate, 4 points for the lower half of difficulty in npc cruisers and 5 for the largest and most brutal. - The same goes for battleships. 1 point for any frigate, 2 points for all but the most powerful cruisers, 3 points for the most powerful cruisers, 4 for low to mid difficulty battleship npcs and 5 for the most powerful of those. Include interceptors in either 4 or 5 points. You could also include a warmup timer which reduces all point gains by 50% or merely to 1, if you don't earn a certain amount every 10-20 minutes, which would prevent miners (which can be either neutral, pirates themselves or fine upstanding citizens) from taking advantage of these pirate hunter gains whilst they are merely protecting themselves as they tear asteroid belts to shreds. Obviously all of these numbers are comletely arbirary but I'm sure everyone gets the idea. The rest wont fit in this window so..thats it for this post. |
 Iynara Maeral Caldari JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom |
Posted - 2004.05.09 02:19:00 -
[152] Let me just say before I begin that I've read this whole topic and I've seen a lot of good points made. Let me also add that I am a miner and trader, with level 1 medium hybrid and sharpshooter 1 for my most powerful gunnery skills, though my skill points are in the millions. Obviously I don't care for PvP and I would prefer to avoid as much combat as possible for now and quite some time in the future. This is not to say, however, that I am a 'carebear' or some whiney noob looking to avoid anything at all exciting. Quite the contrary. Pirates are an important part of the game, that's just the way it is. Ying and yang, black and white, good and evil, you have to have one to have the other. Not to mention their importance to eve politics, corporations, alliances and the market! And just plain keeping the game exciting. I could list all the reasons but it would make this post too long; contact me if you want them all. And let me just say that those who claim it ruins the game experience.. speak for yourself. Perhaps this game is not for you; too bad EnB isn't around anymore it would have been good for you. I also agree with the statements made that benefits need to be added for both positive and negative status. And that a decay of negative status would be good to bring back, seeing as 0.01 per day is piddle considering that a month is a huge amount of game-time and it will only net you a 3.0 increase.. And I think it would be an excellent idea if we did as Chepe Nolon suggested and make the decay scaled to your history of violent offenses. Perhaps for people with no history, 0.01 decay, bad history down to 0.005 and cap it to -0.1, and good history up to 0.02. This would protect those who accidently killed or killed in defense, and so on. It would also establish those who desire to remain pirates in the long term, who obviously shouldn't care about their sec status. I think it would be fairly simple to put in an extra variable or two that just count the number of previous offenses and against what sec status folks they were commited against, and the decay could be graded against that. Also, fix that bug where people can be high sec and avoid hits to sec when killing..that's a nasty one. The ten minute period, highest bounty sec gain doesn't seem right to me. After all, what about when frigates get more useful soon, and what about newbies, etc? After all, killing a whole bunch of new recruits into evil-doing is as good law-keeping as knocking out a big nob. However even Dezzyb0y's good suggestion of daily npc ship class based cap doesn't neccisarily cut it, as it still means limitations based on experience level of the pilot. So.. lets add on to that and ask.. what if you made your sec status increase based not on what you accomplish but how much time and effort you put into it? After all is that not more a measurement of your dedication to preserving peace than how big the baddy you killed is? So keep a time based function, but make it something like this: - Let us say for convenience sake 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 represent five different amounts of sec gain. - Now say that each npc pirate you've killed gives you one of these five point levels. - If you are flying a frigate you get 3 points for killing an npc frigate of low level (2-8 say for caldari), 4 for killing mid level, and 5 for killing the biggest frigate pirates. - A cruiser pilot would gain just 2 points for any but the most powerful frigates, 3 points for the most powerful frigate, 4 points for the lower half of difficulty in npc cruisers and 5 for the largest and most brutal. - The same goes for battleships. 1 point for any frigate, 2 points for all but the most powerful cruisers, 3 points for the most powerful cruisers, 4 for low to mid difficulty battleship npcs and 5 for the most powerful of those. Include interceptors in either 4 or 5 points. You could also include a warmup timer which reduces all point gains by 50% or merely to 1, if you don't earn a certain amount every 10-20 minutes, which would prevent miners (which can be either neutral, pirates themselves or fine upstanding citizens) from taking advantage of these pirate hunter gains whilst they are merely protecting themselves as they tear asteroid belts to shreds. Obviously all of these numbers are comletely arbirary but I'm sure everyone gets the idea. The rest wont fit in this window so..thats it for this post. ______________ |
 swisher |
Posted - 2004.05.09 21:57:00 -
[153] I have now joined the stats...again as a outlaws...I'm at -4.4 atm...and last time ...Months and months ago I was at or near this I Npced for like 20 hours and was back to 0.0 stats..now I cant move it worth crap..I have npced for like 24 hours now..and hasnt moved hardly at all...Come on CCP...if screw over..pirates like this..you will have alot of people leaving to find something else..which I dont want to see...So please...let fix this problem...eve lives off pirates...So please fix it ..thats all I ask...you have been giving into the carebears...all this time...PLEASE do something for the pirates....FIX this is all I ask...as a pirate...and a customer. -swish |
 swisher The Lost Souls |
Posted - 2004.05.09 21:57:00 -
[154] I have now joined the stats...again as a outlaws...I'm at -4.4 atm...and last time ...Months and months ago I was at or near this I Npced for like 20 hours and was back to 0.0 stats..now I cant move it worth crap..I have npced for like 24 hours now..and hasnt moved hardly at all...Come on CCP...if screw over..pirates like this..you will have alot of people leaving to find something else..which I dont want to see...So please...let fix this problem...eve lives off pirates...So please fix it ..thats all I ask...you have been giving into the carebears...all this time...PLEASE do something for the pirates....FIX this is all I ask...as a pirate...and a customer. -swish |
 Iynara Maeral |
Posted - 2004.05.10 02:30:00 -
[155] If I might ask..you're a pirate right? So why do you need to raise your security status again after working so hard to lower it? |
Iynara Maeral Caldari JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom |
Posted - 2004.05.10 02:30:00 -
[156] If I might ask..you're a pirate right? So why do you need to raise your security status again after working so hard to lower it? ______________ |
 swisher |
Posted - 2004.05.10 03:48:00 -
[157] Edited by: swisher on 10/05/2004 03:54:26
Because I want to be a carebear and mine...havent done that yet..would like to do something different but with my current stats it isnt working out to well... :) But whatever reasons...we have...the security gains needs to be done..because if you can kill a ship get a neg gain then you need to get that % back when you kill the same size ship(NPC)..only seems fair..dont you think...just saying there need to be a balance here in the system..because currently its messed up and I would hate to see another Zombie tactic go down...because..people can't handle only so much before breaking.. -swish I dont mind being hunted...but due to the map I cant go into other systems that I need to go to within a reasonable time...so why not make it where if you have a really bad sec rating you can go thru .7 - .01 but just be KOS but not have concord kill you only players...if you attack a player then concord comes in...because..if you screw over the pirates life..what fun will eve be then...why not just rename it to EVESims online...hopeful it wont come to that...becuase I think some CCP pirate dude up there just hasnt had his time to speak yet and get things done because of all the Carebear..CCP people that have no life that want just a peaceful world...well thats life.. |
swisher The Lost Souls |
Posted - 2004.05.10 03:48:00 -
[158] Edited by: swisher on 10/05/2004 03:54:26
Because I want to be a carebear and mine...havent done that yet..would like to do something different but with my current stats it isnt working out to well... :) But whatever reasons...we have...the security gains needs to be done..because if you can kill a ship get a neg gain then you need to get that % back when you kill the same size ship(NPC)..only seems fair..dont you think...just saying there need to be a balance here in the system..because currently its messed up and I would hate to see another Zombie tactic go down...because..people can't handle only so much before breaking.. -swish I dont mind being hunted...but due to the map I cant go into other systems that I need to go to within a reasonable time...so why not make it where if you have a really bad sec rating you can go thru .7 - .01 but just be KOS but not have concord kill you only players...if you attack a player then concord comes in...because..if you screw over the pirates life..what fun will eve be then...why not just rename it to EVESims online...hopeful it wont come to that...becuase I think some CCP pirate dude up there just hasnt had his time to speak yet and get things done because of all the Carebear..CCP people that have no life that want just a peaceful world...well thats life.. |
Iynara Maeral |
Posted - 2004.05.10 04:18:00 -
[159] Edited by: Iynara Maeral on 10/05/2004 04:41:32 You mean if you kill a player pilot in a Battleship and then go kill an npc battleship, you should gain back what you lost for killing the player? O.o You see the thing is.. I can't see there is any need for 'breaking' of any sort.  I thought some of the suggestions given so far have been excellent, yes. But I also think the current system while frustratingly bugged, isn't the absolute horror everyone claims it to be, and CCP is certainly is doing their best to please everyone as that's whats most profitable for them (most ppl aren't carebears beleive it or not, and most people pvp in one way or another). If you pod and kill and steal and murder and so on, you can expect punishment, that's the way it is and no honest person can disagree with that. If you 'accidently' kill someone you sill get punished, you just need to learn to be careful, and hopefully you do. It's not even much of a punishment, to be honest.. 0.0 space is the most profitable space in all of eve and you can do as you please there. I myself am getting very bored of empire space. The one thing I will say is worth complaining about is the sentry gun range. I mean if you're going to dare travel through low security space, there should be some risk.. otherwise it's boring. Miners shouldn't be the only ones allowed to be in danger in low sec space. -- Updated: Isn't there a system in place that allows people of certain levels of negative sec status to go into progressivly lower sec systems? I beleive its something like ever 0.05 you drop its one sec level. so someone at -2.0 should be able to go through 0.5 |
Iynara Maeral Caldari JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom |
Posted - 2004.05.10 04:18:00 -
[160] Edited by: Iynara Maeral on 10/05/2004 04:41:32 You mean if you kill a player pilot in a Battleship and then go kill an npc battleship, you should gain back what you lost for killing the player? O.o You see the thing is.. I can't see there is any need for 'breaking' of any sort. I thought some of the suggestions given so far have been excellent, yes. But I also think the current system while frustratingly bugged, isn't the absolute horror everyone claims it to be, and CCP is certainly is doing their best to please everyone as that's whats most profitable for them (most ppl aren't carebears beleive it or not, and most people pvp in one way or another). If you pod and kill and steal and murder and so on, you can expect punishment, that's the way it is and no honest person can disagree with that. If you 'accidently' kill someone you sill get punished, you just need to learn to be careful, and hopefully you do. It's not even much of a punishment, to be honest.. 0.0 space is the most profitable space in all of eve and you can do as you please there. I myself am getting very bored of empire space. The one thing I will say is worth complaining about is the sentry gun range. I mean if you're going to dare travel through low security space, there should be some risk.. otherwise it's boring. Miners shouldn't be the only ones allowed to be in danger in low sec space. -- Updated: Isn't there a system in place that allows people of certain levels of negative sec status to go into progressivly lower sec systems? I beleive its something like ever 0.05 you drop its one sec level. so someone at -2.0 should be able to go through 0.5 ______________ |
FoRGyL |
Posted - 2004.05.10 06:49:00 -
[161] -25% for just one shoot not even podding...and this should be right? 0,00069%+ for a npc...do ya think it's close? ********************************************************* Ohhhh iyayaayaya puff ohh iyaayaya puff puff PVR =Player vs Roid! Burr, scary peps!!! |
 FoRGyL Beer and Kebabs Pirate Coalition |
Posted - 2004.05.10 06:49:00 -
[162] -25% for just one shoot not even podding...and this should be right? 0,00069%+ for a npc...do ya think it's close? ********************************************************* Pay or don't! |
Bible Dave |
Posted - 2004.05.10 08:17:00 -
[163] For a little comparison my sec rating went from -4.9 to -9.0 last night in 3 hours .... A few hours hard NPC chain killing there to get that back ..... loooool www.dav3r.co.uk << my home page |
 Bible Dave Serial Killers Privateer Alliance |
Posted - 2004.05.10 08:17:00 -
[164] For a little comparison my sec rating went from -4.9 to -9.0 last night in 3 hours .... A few hours hard NPC chain killing there to get that back ..... loooool |
 lordmix |
Posted - 2004.05.10 11:40:00 -
[165] well check this i kill one persons ship and pod. i get -5% for ship kill got this 3 times, bit only killed him once  after i poded him i got -12% 3 times as well i only remmber killing his pod once wtf is this about i was on -3.9 and after that little kill i am on -5.6 ccp sort it out now!!! |
 lordmix Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm |
Posted - 2004.05.10 11:40:00 -
[166] well check this i kill one persons ship and pod. i get -5% for ship kill got this 3 times, bit only killed him once after i poded him i got -12% 3 times as well i only remmber killing his pod once wtf is this about i was on -3.9 and after that little kill i am on -5.6 ccp sort it out now!!!------- Your signature is too big. The size limits for signature graphics are 120 pixels by 400 pixels, and no more than 24,000 bytes (not kbytes) - Karass Sayfo |
Iynara Maeral |
Posted - 2004.05.10 17:29:00 -
[167] Edited by: Iynara Maeral on 10/05/2004 17:31:32 I'm not sure you folks are getting this so I'll go over it one last time It is thoroughly and spectacularly unreasonable to expect that if you kill someone innocent, you can break even by killing someone who flies the same ship who is a pirate. If so I would be a mass murderer just because of all the morons who have frustrated me throughout my life.  It is also unreasonable that -anyone- pirate or not, should not expect a heavy sentance for the attempted murder or successful murder of an innocent. The ship and life of an innocent is worth countless thousands fold the ship and life of a pirate. What is so terrible about a pirate losing sec status, that just means you're doing a good job. What amazing use does a pirate have for security status if he's going to be pirating anyway? Raise sec, kill.. raise sec, kill.. seems so very tedious and pointless to me. Enlighten me :D |
Iynara Maeral Caldari JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom |
Posted - 2004.05.10 17:29:00 -
[168] Edited by: Iynara Maeral on 10/05/2004 17:31:32 I'm not sure you folks are getting this so I'll go over it one last time It is thoroughly and spectacularly unreasonable to expect that if you kill someone innocent, you can break even by killing someone who flies the same ship who is a pirate. If so I would be a mass murderer just because of all the morons who have frustrated me throughout my life. It is also unreasonable that -anyone- pirate or not, should not expect a heavy sentance for the attempted murder or successful murder of an innocent. The ship and life of an innocent is worth countless thousands fold the ship and life of a pirate. What is so terrible about a pirate losing sec status, that just means you're doing a good job. What amazing use does a pirate have for security status if he's going to be pirating anyway? Raise sec, kill.. raise sec, kill.. seems so very tedious and pointless to me. Enlighten me :D______________ |
swisher |
Posted - 2004.05.11 02:16:00 -
[169]
Same thing...happen to me I got like 2.5% point taken off my sec rating because of this..kepts on giving me aggression hits..on the same person...its crap I tell you...better watch out..blood presure is up now..:p -swish |
swisher The Lost Souls |
Posted - 2004.05.11 02:16:00 -
[170]
Same thing...happen to me I got like 2.5% point taken off my sec rating because of this..kepts on giving me aggression hits..on the same person...its crap I tell you...better watch out..blood presure is up now..:p -swish |
 zeroh |
Posted - 2004.05.11 07:59:00 -
[171] i can never get my sec back to go .5 in the current system so im trying to join the -10 club having a great time doing it  http://www.botoxbandits.net/evekill/index.php |
 zeroh Caldari 0utbreak |
Posted - 2004.05.11 07:59:00 -
[172] i can never get my sec back to go .5 in the current system so im trying to join the -10 club having a great time doing it *snip*, your sig exceeds 24000 bytes and lacks sufficient EVE content. -HornFrog |
Lorach |
Posted - 2004.05.11 18:05:00 -
[173] After a few fun poddings i realised my sec had jumped miles to the negative side. To put it nicely i wasnt best pleased.  So what now? Endless npc killin to try to get it bak up a little bit? Surely this aint right...  Lorach |
 Lorach |
Posted - 2004.05.11 18:05:00 -
[174] After a few fun poddings i realised my sec had jumped miles to the negative side. To put it nicely i wasnt best pleased. So what now? Endless npc killin to try to get it bak up a little bit? Surely this aint right... Lorach |
Iynara Maeral |
Posted - 2004.05.11 19:45:00 -
[175] ...Is anyone even listening to me or are the points I am making too potent to be adequately responded too?  Or are people posting here without reading any of the previous posts.. |
Iynara Maeral Caldari JUDGE DREAD Inc. Forces of Freedom |
Posted - 2004.05.11 19:45:00 -
[176] ...Is anyone even listening to me or are the points I am making too potent to be adequately responded too? Or are people posting here without reading any of the previous posts.. ______________ |
 Lorach |
Posted - 2004.05.11 20:36:00 -
[177] Sori my last post was more of an angry sorta post not a reasoning/talking post. So lets look at the current system and its objectives. At the moment you kill, murder, etc. and you get nice negative security hits. Thats all good and well. However when you get really bad security hits for e.g. podding, then things dont start to look all that good. You are not allowed in 0.5-1.0 space, which is very annoying. This is a good punishment and serves its purpose. However looking at the larger picture this is a game and is about people having fun playing. When you cant enter 0.5-1.0 a whole part of the game is taken away from you. You should at least be able to "do your time" in effect and get rid of your negative status and be allowed bak in 0.5-1.0 in a "reasonable" time so to allow for fun gameplay. Heres the problem. Once you have your negative status you cant get rid of it. So the whole point of punishing a player and over time letting them off (which isnt strictly morally correct, but perfectly ok as this is meant to be a fun game for everyone) just doesnt currently work. Hence the complaints in this thread  Im really crap at english but hope i got my point across. Lorach |
Lorach |
Posted - 2004.05.11 20:36:00 -
[178] Sori my last post was more of an angry sorta post not a reasoning/talking post. So lets look at the current system and its objectives. At the moment you kill, murder, etc. and you get nice negative security hits. Thats all good and well. However when you get really bad security hits for e.g. podding, then things dont start to look all that good. You are not allowed in 0.5-1.0 space, which is very annoying. This is a good punishment and serves its purpose. However looking at the larger picture this is a game and is about people having fun playing. When you cant enter 0.5-1.0 a whole part of the game is taken away from you. You should at least be able to "do your time" in effect and get rid of your negative status and be allowed bak in 0.5-1.0 in a "reasonable" time so to allow for fun gameplay. Heres the problem. Once you have your negative status you cant get rid of it. So the whole point of punishing a player and over time letting them off (which isnt strictly morally correct, but perfectly ok as this is meant to be a fun game for everyone) just doesnt currently work. Hence the complaints in this thread Im really crap at english but hope i got my point across. Lorach |
swisher |
Posted - 2004.05.12 12:21:00 -
[179]
Iynara...I am listening to your comments...but only thing that is sad about these posts and threads is I personally do not think we will see any changes anytime soon.. -swish |
swisher The Lost Souls |
Posted - 2004.05.12 12:21:00 -
[180]
Iynara...I am listening to your comments...but only thing that is sad about these posts and threads is I personally do not think we will see any changes anytime soon.. -swish |
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