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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.26 16:46:00 -
[181]
Black Ops are whacked because you can't fly behind enemy lines due to cyno jammers[designed to stop capitals]. Not because of nano's.
 Originally by: AKULA UrQuan
Originally by: Goumindong
This exemplifies the just what is wrong with the people who support the status quo.
Give me September/October 2006 speed mod balance any day over this.
Tell you the truth Goumindong, it was just as wacked then as well. What kept the nano fits out of the mainstream was WCS/ECM being the status quo. 200M - 300M HAC prices also might have had something to do with it.
I wouldn't be surprised if CCP took the same path with this as they did with the old dual MWD/AB setups. Ya get one overdrive, one nano, one I-Stab and that's it. Interceptors are left mostly untouched and the common nano HACs get reigned in abit. Nano HAC pilots juiced up on implants will still go loony fast, but since they'll spend a few billion for those I can live with that.
Ehh, not really. ECM and WCS were strong, but not nearly as strong as nanos are today.
With speed mods today, you get the ability of the WCS partially the ECM in one neat handy package. Turn on your MWD and orbit and you aren't going to be hit well except by medium sized pulse lasers with scorch. If you have means to strike back when going fast[missiles, drones etc], then you are doing DPS and they are not. Ditto if you have the range to strike outside of their engagement range.
And of course, any ship when specially fit could ruin a WCS fit ships day[one sensor booster, mwd, speed mods, web, NOS, +bunch of points], as well as large numbers of ships doing the same. As well as bubbles.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Gregoriuses
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.26 17:05:00 -
[182]
CCP can't nerf nanos... other way... they will kill totally point of vaga and curse.
Vaga is made to be nano and curse.... since nos nerf is just non spec ship...can't tank and can't be nano (only with implants,which are only for rich people wallet).... So if CCP nerf speed... they will make minmantar and amarr ships+ ishtar totally non usefull. U can't just say...nerf nano. bring solution...bring research of ships ets... if not...don't even post it cose ccp has no time to read every day sugesstion nerfs tbh.
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Darineah Charach
Minmatar
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.26 20:28:00 -
[183]
I remember a while back, when i was even more noob than i am now, i used to hate nano gangs because i had no way to do anything about them. I didn't have the skills to fly a minnie recon nor to fit out a nano ship of my own. Now i do, although i don't have the isk for poly vaga i do fly a nano rapier a lot, and i can see the issue from both sides. The problem as i see it isn't so much with nano ships being fast per se, it's more with HOW fast they are.
*****zilla has mentioned a few times that the answer to nano gangs is to fly nano. I know it probably wasn't your intention mate but you've pretty much summed up right there that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. If a tactic/setup is effective to the point that the only viable counter is to do the same thing, then there's inhenrently something wrong with it. I don't want to play an EvE where everyone has to do the same thing to compete, i want an EvE where a nano gang can meet a gang with a completely different tactic and they can both compete.
Nano's are here to stay, and so they should be. It's a viable, fun and effective way to blow **** up but the mechanics as they stand could use some tweaking so that it's not the ONLY viable, fun and effective way to blow **** up.
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Boxing Kangaroo
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Darineah Charach
Minmatar
Antares Fleet Yards
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.26 20:37:00 -
[184]
Oh and as an after thought i think jump bridges have a lot to answer for in the nano equation. They've made blobbing a far greater risk and therefore the ability to escape is of far greater significance. Hence...speed is necessary.
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Boxing Kangaroo
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000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.04.26 21:47:00 -
[185]
Prolly hard to do, but i personally feel that ccp should somehow nerf the huge speeds people can get on ships that are not meant to go very fast or atleast were never intended.
impo, it should be like this:
first and fastest: Interceptors, why? cuz thats what there made for and the drawback is that their paperthin and against bigger target the damage u do is pretty useless (unless u have the time to peck ur opponent to death)
second but still fast: the hacs that are meant for speed, their speed is their weapon, u can't really take that away from them cuz they would pretty much suck, inties would be faster so they would be a serious counter vs these ships.
personally i think it went totally down the tube when BS started to reach inty speeds 
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CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.04.26 22:53:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Gregoriuses
CCP can't nerf nanos... other way... they will kill totally point of vaga and curse.
Vaga is made to be nano and curse.... since nos nerf is just non spec ship...can't tank and can't be nano (only with implants,which are only for rich people wallet).... So if CCP nerf speed... they will make minmantar and amarr ships+ ishtar totally non usefull. U can't just say...nerf nano. bring solution...bring research of ships ets... if not...don't even post it cose ccp has no time to read every day sugesstion nerfs tbh.
In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
Originally by: 000Hunter000
Prolly hard to do, but i personally feel that ccp should somehow nerf the huge speeds people can get on ships that are not meant to go very fast or atleast were never intended.
impo, it should be like this:
first and fastest: Interceptors, why? cuz thats what there made for and the drawback is that their paperthin and against bigger target the damage u do is pretty useless (unless u have the time to peck ur opponent to death)
second but still fast: the hacs that are meant for speed, their speed is their weapon, u can't really take that away from them cuz they would pretty much suck, inties would be faster so they would be a serious counter vs these ships.
personally i think it went totally down the tube when BS started to reach inty speeds
There's one HAC with a speed bonus. Only one. I don't see a problem with that one being pretty quick.
I do see a problem with every HAC (as at the moment) being 'good' or 'bad' based on how well it nanos up.
I believe that within a size class, the upper end, should _just about_ overlap, speed wise, with the lower end of the class smaller.
In general, cruiser hulls, shouldn't be faster than frigate hulls. Even when fitting overdrives/rigs, since as ships get larger, slot counts increase.
But having my flycatcher getting run down by HACs makes me sad.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Uncle Smokey
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Posted - 2008.04.26 23:16:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Indyman tech2
my support fleet of 30 poeple couldn't catch them....and this was only like 5 people in nanos vs us...and they killed our megathron pilot
U got some guts to actually report something like this happened, i give you that. Your fleet sucks. Big time. "Boost my fleet" would have been a more believable thread.
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\o/ EVERYBODY SAY HELL YEAH! \o/ |
Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.27 02:23:00 -
[188]
Originally by: James Lyrus
I believe that within a size class, the upper end, should _just about_ overlap, speed wise, with the lower end of the class smaller.
In general, cruiser hulls, shouldn't be faster than frigate hulls. Even when fitting overdrives/rigs, since as ships get larger, slot counts increase.
This is a key and important part. You cannot make a smaller ship have as much or more range and DPS as a larger ship with any fitting. You cannot make smaller ships have better EHP than larger ships[with the sole exception of the Damnation which does terrible DPS and is slow so it doesn't really matter].
It should also be noted that the vagabond would be plenty fast even with no speed mods[3km/s, assuming nothing else had speed mods].
That isn't to say speed mods should not exist, just that in their current state with current counters they are clearly imbalanced. |
Blood Bathroom
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Posted - 2008.04.27 03:09:00 -
[189]
ok are guys really this dumb??? nothing in this game is uber, there is always a counter. nano's GET A HUGGIN/RAPIER!!! if u cant figure it out go back to WOW.... *shakes head at ******s...
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Blood Bathroom
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Posted - 2008.04.27 03:11:00 -
[190]
And i personnely think someone should call the waaabulance for these ppl.
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BIG BOS5
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Posted - 2008.04.27 03:11:00 -
[191]
Nano's don't need to be nerfed cry baby's just need to learn how to adapt. A nano ship has a low effective H.P it will be running a mwd constantly so it's sig radius is through the roof.Think of a way to fight them instead of crying on the forums and sticking your thumb up your rump.
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Lorzion
Minmatar
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.27 03:35:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Phil Miller
Nano need a nerf. A hard cap of 3km/s, while at the same increasing the effectives and range of webs.
Well then if were going with this then heres my idea. At the same time they implement that nerf i want all battleships/battlecruisers/whatelse to have the max damage they can do to a hard cap of 50 with complete crap for tracking speed. then at the same time reduce all effects of armor reps and shield booster/ what ever you use to tank by half. then your battleship would be even to the HAC. And for an extra bonus we can use rainbows and fairies as ammo. Wars would be girlie little slap fights. Everyone would have the skills, and after all of the mean old fighting we could skip merrily through the woods.
or you can extort the weaknesses of the nano ships like they do with the weakness of the battleship (bad tracking and etc) with these ideas which were posted.
Originally by: Vitrael
Killing and Surviving nanoships 101:
1. Bring a Rapier.
2. Bring a Huginn.
3. Bring a Curse.
4. Bring warrior IIs.
5. Overload webs.
6. Bring missile spammers.
7. Bring ECM.
8. Bring tracking disruptors.
9. Bring heavy tankers.
10. Use remote reppers.
Like someone said earlier... You bring rock and your friend brings scissors incase you run into paper.
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Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.04.27 03:37:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Elmicker on 27/04/2008 03:38:40
What makes you think those asking for a rebalance are those on the receiving end? I'm a vaga pilot, i'm maxed in skirmish warfare (mmm, mindlinks), i've got maxed navigation and the only rigs i use are polycarbons. I'm the proverbial nanofag.
Just because a single potential "counter" exists, does not make something balanced. I largely agree with goum's/lyrus' point that class speed differentials need to be realigned so there's not so hilariously easy to take the speed/maneuverability attributes of one class and apply them to the ehp/dps of another class.
(oh, and none of those counters are actually capable of outright killing a competent nanofag. just making him disengage and run. Half of them aren't even capable of that.)
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Lego Maniac
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.04.27 03:40:00 -
[194]
poasting in epic flame/troll bait thread
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Captain Sonata
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.04.27 04:33:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Lorzion
Like someone said earlier... You bring rock and your friend brings scissors incase you run into paper.
Except to beat Nano, you need another Nano setup.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.27 05:14:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Captain Sonata
Originally by: Lorzion
Like someone said earlier... You bring rock and your friend brings scissors incase you run into paper.
Except to beat Nano, you need another Nano setup.
I'm pretty sure I can fly a non-nano Huginn and still win. But only way you will survive against anyone who isn't nano'd in a huginn is to nano it. (Ever tried fitting a tank on a huginn?  )
I don't need to nano my Huginn except to keep my 100+ mil investment alive when I get dropped by a larger gang. It catches everything else quite nicely. You logic fails...
BTW interceptors with webs are not nano-ships, they are interceptors; designed to catch something and hold it for the gang. Not only to point a stationary BS and orbit at 8km/s but to chase down the other fast ships! 
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Originally by: CCP Mitnal
It's great being a puppetmaster 
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Goumindong
Amarr
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.27 05:33:00 -
[197]
Originally by: techzer0
Ever tried fitting a tank on a huginn?
Huginns, like most minmatar t2 ships aren't really hard to tank at all.
E.G.
[Huginn, New Setup 1]
Overdrive Injector System II
Overdrive Injector System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, EMP M
Core Defence Field Extender I
Core Defence Field Extender I
Valkyrie II x3
Hobgoblin II x2
3211m/s, 26,772 EHP.
Now this is a AWU 5 fit, but the third gun doesn't really add much.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
AKULA UrQuan
Caldari
STK Scientific
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.04.27 06:22:00 -
[198]
Only two webs?
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Red Thunder
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Posted - 2008.04.27 08:09:00 -
[199]
thats all i fit, it slows down any nanoship enough to be practically instapopped.
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