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Indyman tech2	Posted - 2008.04.23 19:23:00 - [1] i was in this fight with this guy in 00, then all of a sudden this gang shows up out of nowhere, and i'm like wtf...and not only that, my support fleet of 30 poeple couldn't catch them....and this was only like 5 people in nanos vs us...and they killed our megathron pilot, THEN WARPED AWAY WITH NO LOSSES...thats so stupid. itsl ike the new wcs, no need to commit to a fight.
Vitrael Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.04.23 19:26:00 - [2] Killing and Surviving nanoships 101: 1. Bring a Rapier. 2. Bring a Huginn. 3. Bring a Curse. 4. Bring warrior IIs. 5. Overload webs. 6. Bring missile spammers. 7. Bring ECM. 8. Bring tracking disruptors. 9. Bring heavy tankers. 10. Use remote reppers. I could go on. To be honest if you lost a Megathron in a fleet of 30 to just 5 nanoships you are doing something terribly wrong.
Blood Daemon Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.23 19:28:00 - [3] Edited by: Blood Daemon on 23/04/2008 19:29:04 If you can't beat em... join em o/j'in :P FIT MOAR WEBBERS (P.S. that isn't the only option, more of a haha moment ) Otherwise hats off to them, because they caught you in a vulnerable situation and they came out ontop, so they win.. variety & tactics is the key, not numbers... ------------------
chiefyuk Amarr StateCorp Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.23 19:34:00 - [4] no ------------------------------------------------ You can kill the protester but you cant kill the protest ------------------------------------------------
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:01:00 - [5] tbh, if you're running around in 0.0 and you're not in nanos then you're doing something wrong. If you're not doing at least 3km/s - 4km/s then you're asking to die. If you undock and don't have 2-3 huginns/rapiers with logistics/falcon support then you're doing something wrong. Slap the mega pilot around. He should have been in an ishtar. He deserved to lose the ship for bringing a non nano ship to a nano fight.
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:06:00 - [6] Originally by: ****zilla tbh, if you're running around in 0.0 and you're not* in nanos then you're doing something wrong. If you're not doing at least 3km/s - 4km/s then you're asking to die. If you undock and don't have 2-3 huginns/rapiers with logistics/falcon support then you're doing something wrong. Slap the mega pilot around. He should have been in an ishtar. He deserved to lose the ship for bringing a non nano ship to a nano fight. This is the dumbest crap I've read today. Join The Muffin Factory
TimMc Gallente Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:13:00 - [7] Threads like this aren't even funny anymore.
Radcjk Caldari Dark Star LTD Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:17:00 - [8] Edited by: Radcjk on 23/04/2008 20:18:42 Originally by: Alowishus This is the dumbest crap I've read today. Wait five minutes ? I dont know whats worse, nanofags or nanofag whiners, but eve is definitely a game of adapting and overcoming. No tactic lasts for ever. 5 on thirty was pretty ballsy of em though, nanos or not.
Thorexion Lynch Gallente C R Y O	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:42:00 - [9] Originally by: Vitrael Killing and Surviving nanoships 101: 1. Bring a Rapier. 2. Bring a Huginn. 3. Bring a Curse. 4. Bring warrior IIs. 5. Overload webs. 6. Bring missile spammers. 7. Bring ECM. 8. Bring tracking disruptors. 9. Bring heavy tankers. 10. Use remote reppers. I could go on. To be honest if you lost a Megathron in a fleet of 30 to just 5 nanoships you are doing something terribly wrong. and a few Arazu's to scram em while the webs take affect XD
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:45:00 - [10] I can haz Hvy Neuts on Mah Battleships?! -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.

Sedai Hara The Forsakened Companions Pure.	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:52:00 - [11] Originally by: Indyman tech2 my support fleet of 30 poeple couldn't catch them.. okeeeeey.. So did this 30 man support fleet exist of small-rail fitted Moas and 1600mm plated mallers? Because ANY 30 man support fleet can catch 5 nanos, ANY!!! hell i went up as FC with 40 support vs 20 nano, we lost ships true, but we killed nearly all of them as we where stubborn to hold the field. I mean come on! was the mega sitting 100km from your gang looking at the stars? Also, eventhough i am in a so called sucky alliance, isnt a support fleet just that, support? It should include ATLEAST the following: A couple of fast inties with webbs A dictor/HIC ECM webbers? webbers? scramblers webbers? damps Nos and neuts webbers? Ships with guns and missiles, you know pew-pew? also webbers,tacklers ECM EW yeah you know, support fleet kind-of-stuff. Did i mention webbers? im a nanofag and well... we aint untouchable that much i can say expensive losses aint fun ----------------------------- Originally by: Ozzie Asrail A mega without 3 magstabs fitted is like kladdkaka without chocolate.
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:52:00 - [12] Originally by: ****zilla tbh, if you're running around in 0.0 and you're not* in nanos then you're doing something wrong. If you're not doing at least 3km/s - 4km/s then you're asking to die. If you undock and don't have 2-3 huginns/rapiers with logistics/falcon support then you're doing something wrong. Slap the mega pilot around. He should have been in an ishtar. He deserved to lose the ship for bringing a non nano ship to a nano fight. <sarcasm>Because game mechanics that force you to only play once type of ship fit to be competitive are a Good Thing(TM), right?</sarcasm> Your post expresses exactly what's wrong--thanks.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:52:00 - [13] Best counter for nanos = nanominnierecon. Unless you're one of those people who consider "scaring them off" as a counter... then, well, see above. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.04.23 20:59:00 - [14] "OMG I CANT WIN IN COOKIECUTTER HACK AND SLASH SETUP NERF NREF NREF NREF" Just no. Nanos add flavor to the game and more dynamic play. Nerfing nanos would also destroy Ishtar,
Phil Miller Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:16:00 - [15] Nano need a nerf. A hard cap of 3km/s, while at the same increasing the effectives and range of webs. ______________________________________
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Euriti "OMG I CANT WIN IN COOKIECUTTER HACK AND SLASH SETUP NERF NREF NREF NREF" Yes, because a cookiecutter nano setup is vastly superior. Fly Nano Spaceships (tm). Originally by: Phil Miller Nano need a nerf. A hard cap of 3km/s, while at the same increasing the effectives and range of webs. But then how would a small gang go toe to toe with a larger blob picking off ships at will? How would they run away when the other side doesn't have nanos & nano minm recons? As it stands now there is no reason to not fly nanos. The game changes. Adapt. Fly nanos. Drink the Koolaid.
Death Merchant InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:26:00 - [17] Originally by: Phil Miller Nano need a nerf. A hard cap of 3km/s, while at the same increasing the effectives and range of webs. I think you need to be nerfed. A hard cap of no more post, while at the same decreasing the effective range of your whining about something thats counterable if you tried.
Phil Miller Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Death Merchant I think you need to be nerfed. A hard cap of no more post, while at the same decreasing the effective range of your whining about something thats counterable if you tried. Go away sunshine, the adults are trying to have a conversation. Originally by: *****zilla But then how would a small gang go toe to toe with a larger blob picking off ships at will? How would they run away when the other side doesn't have nanos & nano minm recons? Why should they be able to run away? What kind of logic is that? They should have brought a bigger blob if they wanted to live. A 5 man nano gang should not roam freely in a 30man battlefield. ______________________________________
Umar Khattab Amarr Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:35:00 - [19] Edited by: Umar Khattab on 23/04/2008 21:35:22 Originally by: Indyman tech2 i was in this fight with this guy in 00, then all of a sudden this gang shows up out of nowhere, and i'm like wtf...and not only that, my support fleet of 30 poeple couldn't catch them....and this was only like 5 people in nanos vs us...and they killed our megathron pilot, THEN WARPED AWAY WITH NO LOSSES...thats so stupid. itsl ike the new wcs, no need to commit to a fight. p*ssy whinner DUDEISM.COM
Envy Iniquitous Caldari Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:36:00 - [20] Why is it that everyone who flies a tank and gank ship thinks everything that can possibly beat them should be nerfed? Learn to fly with friends who can support you and you will find the game much more rewarding then if everything but your style of play is nerfed. IÆm all for balance but these threads come off as nothing more then whining. There should be a requirement for nerf threads, if youÆre going to complain and call nerf at least give some non antidotal reasons in your original post. Hint: I died is not usually a good enough reason to nerf something people spend time to train for. [/troll off] I still donÆt get people that complain about nano ships; eve gives you a choice to play how you like, do that, and let others do the same.

Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:37:00 - [21] Originally by: ****zilla tbh, if you're running around in 0.0 and you're not* in nanos then you're doing something wrong. If you're not doing at least 3km/s - 4km/s then you're asking to die. If you undock and don't have 2-3 huginns/rapiers with logistics/falcon support then you're doing something wrong. Slap the mega pilot around. He should have been in an ishtar. He deserved to lose the ship for bringing a non nano ship to a nano fight. I'm not even SLIGHTLY worried about most nano's by themselves. My lowly ratting drake can tank them until they run out of ammo and go home. I'm only worried about nano's in gangs. But by the same token, once you have enough nano's to breach the Drake's tank you may as well have just brought t1 ships because it would accomplish the sam job for less. Nano ships have exactly two advantages over other ship designs: the ability to dictate the range of combat and the ability to leave combat when the battle goes against them. To achieve this, they generally give up loads of firepower and tank. Most nano ships can't go fast enough to evade fire completely those that can are unable to do anything in return.
Captain Sonata Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:46:00 - [22] Originally by: Derek Sigres Most nano ships can't go fast enough to evade fire completely those that can are unable to do anything in return. Ishtar, Curse, Rapier/Huggin, Vaga etc -- yeah, poor ol' them, and their ability to not do a thing at range.
Kiki Arnolds Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.23 21:52:00 - [23] Cheap webbing interceptors, with a 30man fleet a ceptor can web down a nano-ship long enough for you to primary and pop it. You may loose a few, but even a 1:1 loss rate trading 18M interceptors for 1-200M Nanoed T2 cruisers is a good deal imo... ç¦
Diana Fyre	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:06:00 - [24] Watch out for the pro-nanos. They know they're overpowered, but are far more interested in their awesome K:D ratio, than in an interesting and well rounded game. That's ok though. If I had an 'I win' button, that let me chose to fight, and run away whenever I felt like, I'd probably use a lot too. Actually... weren't they called Warp Core Stabilisers, once upon a time? Hmm. I think we see very similar arguments in fact.
Mazzy Star Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:19:00 - [25] Obvious troll is obvious. People suck at spotting them today though it seems, heh. All these serious posts listing off reasons and what not. ________________________________________________________
Death Merchant InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:19:00 - [26] Edited by: Death Merchant on 23/04/2008 22:19:57 Originally by: Diana Fyre Watch out for the pro-nanos. They know they're overpowered, but are far more interested in their awesome K:D ratio, than in an interesting and well rounded game. Watch out for the anti-nanos. They use poorly setup ships and bad tactics, but are far more interested in sitting at a gate and their horrible K:D ratio, than in an interesting and well rounded game.
Diana Fyre	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Mazzy Star Obvious troll is obvious. People suck at spotting them today though it seems, heh. All these serious posts listing off reasons and what not. This is EVE online. It is a futuristic setting. You cannot have Trolls in a futuristic setting. In EVE, they're called 'Caldari'.
Liang Nuren Black Sea Industries Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:22:00 - [28] Originally by: Diana Fyre This is EVE online. It is a futuristic setting. You cannot have Trolls in a futuristic setting. In EVE, they're called 'Caldari'. ::peers at your avatar:: ::peers at own avatar:: -Liang -- Naturally, I do not in any way speak for my corp or alliance.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Kiki Arnolds Cheap webbing interceptors, with a 30man fleet a ceptor can web down a nano-ship long enough for you to primary and pop it. If you've quite a few suicidal ceptors with t2 fits that 30man fleet might pop a nano or two. Of course thats what makes the nano rapier/huginn great. Nanos are some of the best at hunting ceptors. Nanos with rapier/huginn support excel at popping ceptors. Originally by: Liang Nuren ::peers at your avatar:: ::peers at own avatar:: -Liang She is cuter to be honest.
Death Merchant InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:26:00 - [30] Originally by: Phil Miller Originally by: ***zilla But then how would a small gang go toe to toe with a larger blob picking off ships at will? How would they run away when the other side doesn't have nanos & nano minm recons? Why should they be able to run away? What kind of logic is that? They should have brought a bigger blob if they wanted to live**. A 5 man nano gang should not roam freely in a 30man battlefield. Having a blob doesn't automatically make your victory assured. Your gang was not prepared properly for a nanogang. It may have been setup to handle a traditional fleet. I don't know. I would think you had at least a few tacklers out of 30 or at least 1 mim recon.

Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.23 22:37:00 - [31] I have no problem with nano ships (in fact I use them!) but I laugh at people who think it's the only way. Some of you should expand your horizons. I also laugh at people on the other side of the coin who won't adapt their tactics and want the Devs to solve all their problems with nerfs. Eve is filled with such one dimensional tards. At least they amuse me. Join The Muffin Factory
Korthan Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.04.23 23:42:00 - [32] The OP is so full of FAILÖ it's hilarious tbh. In a 30 man gang with BS's in it you should at least have 3-5 of them fitted with remote reps or shield transfers... I mean how noobish can you be?? I personally don't fly anything fast except for ceptors as I tend to lose nano-fitted ships rather easily despite the stupid speed they have, so it is possible to counter nano's unless it was like a 5 man nano-curse gang which I have to say is rather *** lol
ViperVenom Labteck Corporation LTD. Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.04.23 23:42:00 - [33] Quite simple.. Hug/Rapier Hvy Neuts. People are man when they get solo killed by a Vaga? Vaga have bad dps, also there made to be fast. Minnie ship in general are fast and made to be fast. And Most small Nano gang will flee If the see a Hug.. Use better tactics and try again. I shall never reply to this type of post again. Boo CCP!!!!
Clinically Gallente ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.23 23:50:00 - [34] Proposing new thread title: People that suck at EvE should be banned from forum whining ________________ Originally by: Evil Thug I wear pink panties.
NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.24 00:12:00 - [35] Edited by: NightmareX on 24/04/2008 00:15:33 OMG, T2 frigs is faster than our nano HAC's, and they can get out of the fight without losing anything, NEEEEEEEEEERRRRRFFFF frigs pls. Stupid posts like this should have deserved a 1 month ingame & forum ban for beeing stupid.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 00:24:00 - [36] Originally by: NightmareX T2 frigs is faster than our nano HAC's, and they can get out of the fight without losing anything, Frigs are a trade off. They have no tank, no real dps, very little cap. Nanos are better than frigs in nearly every catagory except cost and price. Nanos are vastly preferred to ceptors. Why fly a ceptor when a nano can usually do a superior job?
ndor Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.24 00:26:00 - [37] I wish CCP invented a module you can put on your ships that slow ships down dramatically..... If only.... And if only they'd give certain classes a range bonus to that module, it'd basically render nano-ships useless... Particularly considering the gimped camp and overall low DPS. I'd petition CCP and ask them to invent such a module :)
NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.24 00:35:00 - [38] Originally by: ***zilla Originally by:** NightmareX T2 frigs is faster than our nano HAC's, and they can get out of the fight without losing anything, Frigs are a trade off. They have no tank, no real dps, very little cap. Nanos are better than frigs in nearly every catagory except cost and price. Nanos are vastly preferred to ceptors. Why fly a ceptor when a nano can usually do a superior job? Do you expect a T2 frig to be better than a HAC then? T2 frigs are good for speed and tackle. So if they see that they don't have a chance, they will bugger off. It's the same with HAC's vs BS'es, if the HAC's see that they don't have a chance, they will most likely get out. And even more, BS'es vs Carriers / Dreads, the BS'es will get out if they see that they can't handle the carriers / dreads.
Efdi Minmatar Brannigan's Law	Posted - 2008.04.24 00:37:00 - [39] Originally by: *****zilla Recons are better than EAS in nearly every catagory except cost and price. Recons are vastly preferred to EAS. Why fly a EAS when a Recon can usually do a superior job? See what I did there? We should probably go ahead and nerf all the Recons too, while we're nerfing nanos.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.24 00:53:00 - [40] Originally by: Efdi Originally by: ****zilla Recons are better than EAS in nearly every catagory except cost and price. Recons are vastly preferred to EAS. Why fly a EAS when a Recon can usually do a superior job? See what I did there? We should probably go ahead and nerf all the Recons too, while we're nerfing nanos. What did you do there, miss the point? But you made a good one at least... EAS are meant* to be mini recons. HACs were never meant to be big interceptors. But while we're talking about AFs, I remember them being widely used a few years ago, before bigger ships were granted superspeed. Kinda miss the days, when there was variety in PvP. Oh well. Nano it is.

Phil Miller Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.24 00:53:00 - [41] Edited by: Phil Miller on 24/04/2008 00:54:47 Question remains, why does it take more than 1 person(or a very specialized vessel like a huggin/rapier) to kill a nano ship?
Arkios Odymei Incarnation of Evil Nocturnal Legion	Posted - 2008.04.24 01:39:00 - [42] Originally by: Phil Miller Question remains, why does it take more than 1 person(or a very specialized vessel like a huggin/rapier) to kill a nano ship? Heavy Neuts Damp their range so they have to get close if they want to fight Asteroid Bumping Technique if in a belt (Or with a station, or any other Large Collidable for that matter) If your ship has a MWD and Web of its own, Use any of the above to kill a nano. None of these require more than one person, nor a specific ship. Keep in mind that there are also plenty of ways to Get away from / scare them off / force them to dissengage, such as warrior II's, ECM, Missile spam, etc ------------------------------------------------------------------
Trader Jjoe	Posted - 2008.04.24 01:52:00 - [43] Hi I am a pilot who wants you to play the game only the way I want to play it and that is in big ships with big guns. Please make it so I can win all the time and not have to think. K thanks, bye. I fly, nano, BS, recon, and even SB (well before dampner nerf). Its just stupid to run around yelling nerf when there are so many easy tactics. The fact that out of 30 ships you had nothing to deal with small ships means you guys were some kind of sniper fleet with Zero Meaningful support. Not the nano's fault. Its yours. I mean when you make mistakes in real life is your gut reaction to blame others or to turn around and go hmm, what did we do wrong, and how do we correct it? Well I can tell you it pains me to think that there are people who all they do is blame others. Sad.
Dragons Talon	Posted - 2008.04.24 02:09:00 - [44] If memory serves me, nanos have already been nerf'ed once...now either adapt or shutup already... and to be clear..the ONLy time I fit nano's is on my mammoth.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.04.24 02:19:00 - [45] Die troll. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
thatguy Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.24 03:12:00 - [46] Edited by: thatguy on 24/04/2008 03:14:28 Originally by: Clinically Proposing new thread title: People that suck at EvE should be banned from forum whining well said. Improvise Adapt Overcome Someone purchase the OP a T2 Can of Man and a T3 cup of Suck it the FK up. p.s. somone mentioned why it takes more than 1 person to take down a nano ship... because EvE is centered around TEAMWORK!! It's a radical concept for some I know.
ceyriot Induseng Enterprises R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.04.24 04:33:00 - [47] This? Faction Store
ceyriot Induseng Enterprises R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.04.24 04:34:00 - [48] Edited by: ceyriot on 24/04/2008 04:35:02 oops. Faction Store
Koramaur Gallente Amistad Annihilate Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.04.24 04:42:00 - [49] 1. Remove Polycarb Rigs. 2. Enjoy. Has anyone ever suggested the all out removal of Polycarb's? The only good nano fit's usually require them, so just get rid of them. I'm serious.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 04:53:00 - [50] Originally by: Captain Sonata Originally by: Derek Sigres Most nano ships can't go fast enough to evade fire completely those that can are unable to do anything in return. Ishtar, Curse, Rapier/Huggin, Vaga etc -- yeah, poor ol' them, and their ability to not do a thing at range. Vaga can't do **** while nanoing. Rapier and Huginn only have a few unbonused drones. But you knew that... --

Tai Paktu Mortis Incarnatus	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:01:00 - [51] Y'all got trolled. 1/10. Try harder...better yet, don't. ______ http://eve-files.com/sig/TaiPaktu/sig3.PNG
Danari Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:02:00 - [52] Originally by: ViperVenom And Most small Nano gang will flee If the see a Hug.. Um what? 1 huginn? He's primary and then carry on.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:04:00 - [53] Originally by: Danari Originally by: ViperVenom And Most small Nano gang will flee If the see a Hug.. Um what? 1 huginn? He's primary and then carry on. So are atleast 2 or 3 of their ships as well. Remember, he had 30 friends... --
Danari Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Phil Miller Edited by: Phil Miller on 24/04/2008 00:54:47 Question remains, why does it take more than 1 person(or a very specialized vessel like a huggin/rapier) to kill a nano ship? Why does it take more than one person to kill a faction tanked raven?
Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:07:00 - [55] Originally by: Danari Originally by: Phil Miller Edited by: Phil Miller on 24/04/2008 00:54:47 Question remains, why does it take more than 1 person(or a very specialized vessel like a huggin/rapier) to kill a nano ship? Why does it take more than one person to kill a faction tanked raven? It does? Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:10:00 - [56] Originally by: Phil Miller Edited by: Phil Miller on 24/04/2008 00:54:47 Question remains, why does it take more than 1 person(or a very specialized vessel like a huggin/rapier) to kill a nano ship? It doesn't, as people have mentioned COUNTLESS times and you have chosen to ignore, but even if it did, because this game is rock paper scissor. You chose Paper, bring your friend with rock, because the other guy chose scissor. --
Danari Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:13:00 - [57] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Phil Miller Edited by: Phil Miller on 24/04/2008 00:54:47 Question remains, why does it take more than 1 person(or a very specialized vessel like a huggin/rapier) to kill a nano ship? It doesn't, as people have mentioned COUNTLESS times and you have chosen to ignore, but even if it did, because this game is rock paper scissor. You chose Paper, bring your friend with rock, because the other guy chose scissor. There have definitely been ravens out there challenging any one ship to break its tank. So suck on your flame until smoke blows out your ass.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:17:00 - [58] Originally by: Danari Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Phil Miller Edited by: Phil Miller on 24/04/2008 00:54:47 Question remains, why does it take more than 1 person(or a very specialized vessel like a huggin/rapier) to kill a nano ship? It doesn't, as people have mentioned COUNTLESS times and you have chosen to ignore, but even if it did, because this game is rock paper scissor. You chose Paper, bring your friend with rock, because the other guy chose scissor. There have definitely been ravens out there challenging any one ship to break its tank. So suck on your flame until smoke blows out your ass. Wtf are you talking about... lol --
Terraform Gallente Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2008.04.24 05:33:00 - [59] Originally by: Euriti "OMG I CANT WIN IN COOKIECUTTER HACK AND SLASH SETUP NERF NREF NREF NREF" Just no. Nanos add flavor to the game and more dynamic play. Nerfing nanos would also destroy Ishtar, Wow, this post takes the prize for being the most ********. First of all, Nanos ARE a cookiecutter setup, don't think it isn't! Second of all, yes, variety is good, but everyone and his cat is flying nano, so where's the variety? third, The ishtar was fine before nanos, i'm sure it'll be fine after it as well.
Zephyr Rengate Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2008.04.24 06:39:00 - [60] Troll OP. Originally by: Jenny Spitfire I habe no life.

Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2008.04.24 06:47:00 - [61] The issue with nanos is not every ship can do it, and the ships that can't can't do much to fight them 1v1.
Shubs Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.24 09:39:00 - [62] Alternatively you could Cyno in some Sniping Dreads, I heard they work well against Nano's
Squatdog DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:12:00 - [63] 1. Bring a Rapier. 2. Bring a Huginn. You MUST bring one race's Recons to catch a nanofag? Awesome! *3. Bring a Curse.* They'll warp away once their cap gets low. *4. Bring warrior IIs.* Drones won't catch them without at least two drone navs in mids *5. Overload webs.* Overloaded t2 Web has 13km range. FAIL *6. Bring missile spammers.* Nanos outrun precision missiles. FAIL *7. Bring ECM.* Won't kill the nanoboats unless you have tackler with web and an ECM boat sure as hell won't kill one by itself. *8. Bring tracking disruptors.* Won't help against drones or missiles. *9. Bring heavy tankers.* Won't help kill them. *10. Use remote reppers.* Won't help kill them.
Squatdog DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:16:00 - [64] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 24/04/2008 00:15:33 OMG, T2 frigs is faster than our nano HAC's, and they can get out of the fight without losing anything, NEEEEEEEEEERRRRRFFFF frigs pls. Stupid posts like this should have deserved a 1 month ingame & forum ban for beeing stupid. A typical interceptor has ten times less tank and three to four times less DPS than a nanoboat. No, wait...it's a perfectly valid comparison! [yellow]Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigato
ChalSto LOCKDOWN.	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:30:00 - [65] Dont bring a knife to a gun fight aka Trying to catch nanos with BSs. Its like trying to catch a flee with a cruise-missle... Nanos are fine. Nerf players abillity to post on the forum. Boost player tactics and logic. aka U are a n00b Evil will allways triumph, becouse Good is dumb
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:35:00 - [66] ...or do you BS PvPing in low sec. Nanos and sentry guns don't mix very well.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:44:00 - [67] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/04/2008 11:43:55 Originally by: Vitrael Killing and Surviving nanoships 101: 1. Bring a Rapier. 2. Bring a Huginn. 3. Bring a Curse. 4. Bring warrior IIs. 5. Overload webs. 6. Bring missile spammers. 7. Bring ECM. 8. Bring tracking disruptors. 9. Bring heavy tankers. 10. Use remote reppers. I could go on. To be honest if you lost a Megathron in a fleet of 30 to just 5 nanoships you are doing something terribly wrong. Or we could simply nerf nanos because both you and I know why your list has nothing to do with the core issue of nanos. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
El'Tar Caldari Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:48:00 - [68] Lyria is right. ________________________________________________ MY BIG BROTHER BEING JESUS ******* CHRIST IN HIS BATTLEWAGON OF DOOM
kyrv	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:52:00 - [69] Are not nannos supposed to be for acceleration and not for speed or is nanno'ing just a term used for overdrive nodes.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.24 11:54:00 - [70] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/04/2008 11:54:35 Originally by: kyrv Are not nannos supposed to be for acceleration and not for speed or is nanno'ing just a term used for overdrive nodes. Nano is mostly referred to close to fully speed mod'ed ships. Mostly referring to speed mod'ed hacs though. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War

Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:19:00 - [71] Here are the most common nano whines: 1) My NPC Raven got killed by a nano gang. How do I beat them? Response: You probably can't, but why were you still sitting in the belt when a hostile gang came into local? I made billions of ISK NPC hunting in hostile space, sometimes even in enemy hostile space. I never lost an NPC hunting ship to hostiles, EVER. 2) We were camping a gate with two Drakes and we got killed by a nano gang. How do we beat them? Response: Don't engage entire gangs with two Drakes? Is the problem nano ships or that you were simply outnumbered? 3) Our fleet of 15 engaged 7 nano ships and we got pimp slapped and they all escaped. How do we beat them? Response: A good mix of Recons, especially Minmatar, is the best way to fight Nano gangs. Rebuttal: WE DON'T HAVE ANY HUGGIN/RAPIER PILOTS OR ARE STUBBORN AND ARE STILL GOING TO WHINE EVEN IF WE GET THE RIGHT ANSWER! Response: Well then you suck, sorry. If you have 15 people you should force everyone to fly ships that will work as a cohesive unit, not whatever everyone wants to fly. Rebuttal: WHY SHOULD WE HAVE TO ADAPT AND BE BETTER PILOTS? CCP SHOULD JUST FIX OUR PROBLEMS FOR US! Response: ... I'm sorry but as much as nano ships can be annoying to deal with, 99% of the whiners can't form a reasonable argument against them. It's the same thing we've seen since the beginning of Eve. People refuse to take the necessary steps to avoid their own peril/suffering if they think someone else will take the steps for them. If you get a large group of people together most of them will be: 1) Stupid 2) Whiney 3) Entitlement minded It's like children. If you scream loud enough you'll never have to wipe yourself. Join The Muffin Factory
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:25:00 - [72] Originally by: Squatdog You MUST bring one race's Recons to catch a nanofag? Awesome! So what? There are a million tactics in Eve that require specific counter tactics. The only difference is that this one tactic, nano ships, is very popular. What you're really asking is, "why can't I fly whatever I want to and win all situations?" You just don't realize it. Join The Muffin Factory
Captain Sonata Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:38:00 - [73] Originally by: Squatdog 1. Bring a Rapier. 2. Bring a Huginn. You MUST bring one race's Recons to catch a nanofag? Awesome! *3. Bring a Curse.* They'll warp away once their cap gets low. ..... True Story: Nano's are overpowered. How about we remove MWD's from the game? Than those of us who don't fly at 7Km/s can say: Adapt or Die (or some other similar cliche) to all those who'll be crying that their Nanos are weak.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:41:00 - [74] Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Squatdog You MUST bring one race's Recons to catch a nanofag? Awesome! So what? There are a million tactics in Eve that require specific counter tactics. The only difference is that this one tactic, nano ships, is very popular. What you're really asking is, "why can't I fly whatever I want to and win all situations?" You just don't realize it. Nano is the only thing that needs to be countered with the same tactic/ship type. You want to kill a nano gang? You bring a bigger nano gang. (note: KILL, NOT chase off). Every other gang/ship you can counter by bringing various ships. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:46:00 - [75] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is the only thing that needs to be countered with the same tactic/ship type. You want to kill a nano gang? You bring a bigger nano gang. (note: KILL, NOT chase off). Wrong. There are more than a few ways to kill nano ships. Unfortunately people in Eve don't seem to have the wit to outsmart their enemy, they rely on being able to mouse click twice and F1-F8, if that doesn't work they get confused and ask for nerfs to be doled out. Simply put, the best way to fight nano ships is good tactics. Most people in Eve do not employ good tactics. True story. Join The Muffin Factory
Phil Miller Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:51:00 - [76] Edited by: Phil Miller on 24/04/2008 13:55:27 Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is the only thing that needs to be countered with the same tactic/ship type. You want to kill a nano gang? You bring a bigger nano gang. (note: KILL, NOT chase off). Wrong. There are more than a few ways to kill nano ships. Unfortunately people in Eve don't seem to have the wit to outsmart their enemy, they rely on being able to mouse click twice and F1-F8, if that doesn't work they get confused and ask for nerfs to be doled out. Simply put, the best way to fight nano ships is good tactics. Most people in Eve do not employ good tactics. True story. Lets hear your "tactic" that doesn't involve more than 1 person to catch 1 F AG, and you can't use a similar ship yourself... ______________________________________
The Tzar	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:55:00 - [77] A nerf is suggesting a change to the current game and therefore should be posted in idea's and discussion. You have been warned __________________________________________ 'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.24 13:58:00 - [78] Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is the only thing that needs to be countered with the same tactic/ship type. You want to kill a nano gang? You bring a bigger nano gang. (note: KILL, NOT chase off). Wrong. There are more than a few ways to kill nano ships. Unfortunately people in Eve don't seem to have the wit to outsmart their enemy, they rely on being able to mouse click twice and F1-F8, if that doesn't work they get confused and ask for nerfs to be doled out. Simply put, the best way to fight nano ships is good tactics. Most people in Eve do not employ good tactics. True story. No there aren't many good ways of KILLING nano gangs. There are just alot of ways to CHASE them OFF. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Captain Sonata Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:02:00 - [79] Just looked at the killboard, the Sex Panther's guy flies minmatar almost exclusively, vagabonds in particular, no wonder he's defending the whole nano thing so strongly.
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:03:00 - [80] Originally by: Phil Miller Nano need a nerf. A hard cap of 3km/s, while at the same increasing the effectives and range of webs. So your saying medium drones should be able to hit a MWDing inty? Haven't read through the whole topic but this just made me laugh.

Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:16:00 - [81] Originally by: Phil Miller Lets hear your "tactic" that doesn't involve more than 1 person to catch 1 F AG, and you can't use a similar ship yourself... Why can't I use a similar ship? Why can't I have more than one person? What other unrealistic conditions would you like to set? What you're asking for is a solo "win button" against a specific tactic. I'm sure we could come up with some sort of bait ship that could do this. But that's beside the point because when you set up to do one thing, hoping for a specific scenario with a specific target, you make yourself susceptible to dying in other ways. Which is stupid. Say you set up a bait Raven in a belt intended to catch an annoying Vagabond pilot, what if he brings a friend? What if he comes in a BS that day? You're asking a pointless question because you're an idiot if all you want to do is solo kill singular nano ships. Join The Muffin Factory
Everyone Dies Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:17:00 - [82] Originally by: Squatdog 1. Bring a Rapier. 2. Bring a Huginn. You MUST bring one race's Recons to catch a nanofag? Awesome! *3. Bring a Curse.* They'll warp away once their cap gets low. *4. Bring warrior IIs.* Drones won't catch them without at least two drone navs in mids *5. Overload webs.* Overloaded t2 Web has 13km range. FAIL *6. Bring missile spammers.* Nanos outrun precision missiles. FAIL *7. Bring ECM.* Won't kill the nanoboats unless you have tackler with web and an ECM boat sure as hell won't kill one by itself. *8. Bring tracking disruptors.* Won't help against drones or missiles. *9. Bring heavy tankers.* Won't help kill them. *10. Use remote reppers.* Won't help kill them. You don't need of these ships to counter for example a megathron or raven.
Phil Miller Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:19:00 - [83] Originally by: Alowishus Why can't I use a similar ship? Why can't I have more than one person? What other unrealistic conditions would you like to set? What you're asking for is a solo "win button" against a specific tactic. I'm sure we could come up with some sort of bait ship that could do this. But that's beside the point because when you set up to do one thing, hoping for a specific scenario with a specific target, you make yourself susceptible to dying in other ways. Which is stupid. Say you set up a bait Raven in a belt intended to catch an annoying Vagabond pilot, what if he brings a friend? What if he comes in a BS that day? You're asking a pointless question because you're an idiot if all you want to do is solo kill singular nano ships. So you admit, you can't kill a nano solo. Case closed and thank you very much for proving my point. Nano's need a nerf. ______________________________________
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:19:00 - [84] Edited by: Alowishus on 24/04/2008 14:24:35 Originally by: Captain Sonata Just looked at the killboard, the Sex Panther's guy flies minmatar almost exclusively, vagabonds in particular, no wonder he's defending the whole nano thing so strongly. Why don't lie/fail some more? I fly a Maelstrom, Sleipnir or Raven. I haven't flown a Vagabond in years. Ships and Weapons Join The Muffin Factory
Alowishus mUfFiN fAcToRy Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:20:00 - [85] Originally by: Phil Miller So you admit, you can't kill a nano solo. Case closed and thank you very much for proving my point. Nano's need a nerf. Where did I admit that? I actually said you could kill a nano ship solo. Reading comprehension and reading the entire post FTW. Thanks for proving you're an idiot, as suspected. Case closed. Join The Muffin Factory
Emily Evermore Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:25:00 - [86] This guy seems to kill nanos just fine with a regular gank and tank ship. look at all the vagabonds he kills solo. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=753477
Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:25:00 - [87] Originally by: Indyman tech2 THEN WARPED AWAY WITH NO LOSSES...thats so stupid. itsl ike the new wcs, no need to commit to a fight. It's called hit and run. Guerilla Warfare. Read up on the historical uses of it. Then understand why the fact that it exists along with regular fleet combat makes Eve a richer game, both on a tactical and strategic level. ________________________________ This is not a signature.
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:32:00 - [88] Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/04/2008 14:33:04 Edited by: Megan Maynard on 24/04/2008 14:32:10 Ok this topic is funny. Learn some orbital mechanics and some tricks. I didn't want to do this but I'm sorry, I feel the need to help dumb pilots. First off, a ceptor going 7 k/s is VERY VERY specialized. It makes sense that a specialized ship is needed to kill it. Snipe it from far away, or get a web on it, or nail it with neuts, or get another ceptor/EAS ship. That isn't overpowered, that's what it is SUPPOSED to do. Secondly, a pure nano ship costs more then a battleship with rigs alone. Thats right, poly carbs. You know what balances them? PRICE. Last time I checked they ran 58 mil a pop in Jita. The pilots that fly these ships are risking more isk then the pilots they kill most of the time. THEY SHOULD WIN. Third, if you can't web, or neut, or snipe, or bring in a buddy; try using game mechanics. If you are in a missile boat, cruise missiles are BIG, BIG weapons don't hit small targets. Throw an assault launcher with precision lights on your massive ship and watch ceptors flee. If it's a vaga, and it breaks your tank, you need more skills. If you have a turret based ship: TRY TURNING. Some of you forget that if you turn WITH the nano pilot your guns have a much better chance of hitting. If the pilot is out of range going crazy fast, HIT THE BRAKES. Most of the time the orbit command will bring them into optimal range. Also try to always fly straight away from your target, reduces tracking speed and such. Target Painters also do wonders. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:33:00 - [89] Originally by: Phil Miller Originally by: Alowishus Why can't I use a similar ship? Why can't I have more than one person? What other unrealistic conditions would you like to set? What you're asking for is a solo "win button" against a specific tactic. I'm sure we could come up with some sort of bait ship that could do this. But that's beside the point because when you set up to do one thing, hoping for a specific scenario with a specific target, you make yourself susceptible to dying in other ways. Which is stupid. Say you set up a bait Raven in a belt intended to catch an annoying Vagabond pilot, what if he brings a friend? What if he comes in a BS that day? You're asking a pointless question because you're an idiot if all you want to do is solo kill singular nano ships. So you admit, you can't kill a nano solo. Case closed and thank you very much for proving my point. Nano's need a nerf. Huginn can kill a nano solo. Case closed. --
Dheorl The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:34:00 - [90] Originally by: Phil Miller Lets hear your "tactic" that doesn't involve more than 1 person to catch 1 F AG, and you can't use a similar ship yourself... Can I use a sentinel?

Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.04.24 14:39:00 - [91] Originally by: Garion Avarr It's called hit and run. Guerilla Warfare. Read up on the historical uses of it. Then understand why the fact that it exists along with regular fleet combat makes Eve a richer game, both on a tactical and strategic level. The whole basis of hit and run is to make use of a lighter, understrength and more agile unit/group to take on a larger group which they would not be able to in a straight up conventional fight. Guerilla warfare (both in historical and EVE gameplay context) does not rely on flying too fast to be hit - its about being flexible, so to be quite honest, trying to defend the current situation by pulling that 'reference' out of nowhere is misplaced. Skirmish warfare adds a strategic level, yes. But the current variant of 'skirmish' warfare is simply blobs on wheels, and adds nothing to the overall strategic enrichment of EVE gameplay. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.04.24 15:22:00 - [92] Edited by: Leon 026 on 24/04/2008 15:24:42 Originally by: Megan Maynard snip for brevity Had a longer post written up but I got side-tracked with serious inty dogfighting issues that current nano-levels have created (so I scrapped it). Anyways, point form : * 7k/s inty is just an inty with T2 MWD and polycarb. Nothing special. Its average. A highly specialized inty, would be a 10k/s crow [gistii + polycarb], or a 14-16k/s crow [gistii, polycarbs, snakes] * Saying that because they spent more money, they should win, is setting a dangerous course for EVE. Because I can spend 3bil+ on a nano-able ship, should that mean I should automatically win? I disagree - isk investments should give an edge, not guarenteed victory. * Suggestion of precision lights is about 1-2 years behind (it worked during RMR, not now). Base precision light missile explosion velocity (exp.v) is 3,000m/s. With Target Navigation Prediction V its 4,500m/s. You won't be killing an average 7k/s inty with that despite the 3-4 weeks time investment. Essentially spending a day to make 100-120mil isk > 3-4 week time investment. While in an inty vs inty, combat maneuvering will work to a degree, ACM is rendered less effective at high level dogfights (10-14k/s levels) due to ACM not reducing said 10-14k inty below 6k/s. EDIT - apologies for the double-post. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2008.04.24 16:23:00 - [93] Originally by: Garion Avarr Originally by: Indyman tech2 THEN WARPED AWAY WITH NO LOSSES...thats so stupid. itsl ike the new wcs, no need to commit to a fight. It's called hit and run. Guerilla Warfare. Read up on the historical uses of it. Then understand why the fact that it exists along with regular fleet combat makes Eve a richer game, both on a tactical and strategic level. There are ships in Eve that are intended for this...and if you notice something, all of them have a weakness. I don't see why nanos shouldn't be limited to a small number of ships if nano hunters are also similarly limited to a small number of ships. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.24 16:26:00 - [94] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 24/04/2008 16:26:17 Originally by: Garion Avarr Originally by: Indyman tech2 THEN WARPED AWAY WITH NO LOSSES...thats so stupid. itsl ike the new wcs, no need to commit to a fight. It's called hit and run. Guerilla Warfare. Read up on the historical uses of it. Then understand why the fact that it exists along with regular fleet combat makes Eve a richer game, both on a tactical and strategic level. Yes and before the age of nano****gin guerilla warfare was performed by FRIGATES. Thats how it should be. Now that hacs are going almost as fast its totally breaking the speed vs dps balance. But Im not surprised if you dont belive in that balance. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
knowican Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.24 16:54:00 - [95] I have heard someone say a neut dominix can do it. 4x Heavy neuts should shut down the cap on any HAC. Even if he injects the suprise of it should be enough for you to MWD to him and drop dual webs on him. Then just drone away? Is this a valid tactic? Even so the range on the Meta 4 heavy neut is 25km and a t2 disruptor is 24 so you could probibly run him out far enough to get away if it went south.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:00:00 - [96] Originally by: knowican I have heard someone say a neut dominix can do it. 4x Heavy neuts should shut down the cap on any HAC. Even if he injects the suprise of it should be enough for you to MWD to him and drop dual webs on him. Then just drone away? Is this a valid tactic? Even so the range on the Meta 4 heavy neut is 25km and a t2 disruptor is 24 so you could probibly run him out far enough to get away if it went south. Domi doesn't accelerate fast enough, before you get into web range that hac will have drifted off beyond 24km and warped off. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Efdi Minmatar Brannigan's Law	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:18:00 - [97] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Domi doesn't accelerate fast enough, before you get into web range that hac will have drifted off beyond 24km and warped off. You're doing it wrong.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:19:00 - [98] Originally by: Efdi Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Domi doesn't accelerate fast enough, before you get into web range that hac will have drifted off beyond 24km and warped off. You're doing it wrong. You can't control the hac pilot. If he orbits he won't be drifting INTO you. That's a fact. There is nothing you can do about that. What is your point except typing one liners? -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:20:00 - [99] Originally by: Leon 026 Edited by: Leon 026 on 24/04/2008 15:24:42 Originally by: Megan Maynard snip for brevity Had a longer post written up but I got side-tracked with serious inty dogfighting issues that current nano-levels have created (so I scrapped it). Anyways, point form : * 7k/s inty is just an inty with T2 MWD and polycarb. Nothing special. Its average. A highly specialized inty, would be a 10k/s crow [gistii + polycarb], or a 14-16k/s crow [gistii, polycarbs, snakes] * Saying that because they spent more money, they should win, is setting a dangerous course for EVE. Because I can spend 3bil+ on a nano-able ship, should that mean I should automatically win? I disagree - isk investments should give an edge, not guarenteed victory. * Suggestion of precision lights is about 1-2 years behind (it worked during RMR, not now). Base precision light missile explosion velocity (exp.v) is 3,000m/s. With Target Navigation Prediction V its 4,500m/s. You won't be killing an average 7k/s inty with that despite the 3-4 weeks time investment. Essentially spending a day to make 100-120mil isk > 3-4 week time investment. While in an inty vs inty, combat maneuvering will work to a degree, ACM is rendered less effective at high level dogfights (10-14k/s levels) due to ACM not reducing said 10-14k inty below 6k/s. EDIT - apologies for the double-post. You realize your "average" inty is using WAY more isk in rigs than it would spend on the "specialized" MWD would spend. B-type gistii costs 45 million. It will get you to 10km/s with rigs, so don't pull that a-type only works stuff. So an average inty is spending 100+ million in rigs on a 8-12 million ship. And to make it a "specialized" ship, they only need to add 45 million more? Your logic fails. --
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:22:00 - [100] Originally by: Anubis Xian Originally by: Garion Avarr Originally by: Indyman tech2 THEN WARPED AWAY WITH NO LOSSES...thats so stupid. itsl ike the new wcs, no need to commit to a fight. It's called hit and run. Guerilla Warfare. Read up on the historical uses of it. Then understand why the fact that it exists along with regular fleet combat makes Eve a richer game, both on a tactical and strategic level. There are ships in Eve that are intended for this...and if you notice something, all of them have a weakness. I don't see why nanos shouldn't be limited to a small number of ships if nano hunters are also similarly limited to a small number of ships. Nanos are limited to Ishtar, Curse, Vagabond, Rapier, Huggin. You also do realize the amount of isk that is POURED into these ships. Don't ***** about a ship type because your not willing to spend the same amount of isk to compete. --

Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:23:00 - [101] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Efdi Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Domi doesn't accelerate fast enough, before you get into web range that hac will have drifted off beyond 24km and warped off. You're doing it wrong. You can't control the hac pilot. If he orbits he won't be drifting INTO you. That's a fact. There is nothing you can do about that. What is your point except typing one liners? Fit a MWD. --
Megan Maynard Minmatar Out of Order	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:28:00 - [102] Originally by: Leon 026 Edited by: Leon 026 on 24/04/2008 15:24:42 Originally by: Megan Maynard snip for brevity Had a longer post written up but I got side-tracked with serious inty dogfighting issues that current nano-levels have created (so I scrapped it). Anyways, point form : * 7k/s inty is just an inty with T2 MWD and polycarb. Nothing special. Its average. A highly specialized inty, would be a 10k/s crow [gistii + polycarb], or a 14-16k/s crow [gistii, polycarbs, snakes] * Saying that because they spent more money, they should win, is setting a dangerous course for EVE. Because I can spend 3bil+ on a nano-able ship, should that mean I should automatically win? I disagree - isk investments should give an edge, not guarenteed victory. * Suggestion of precision lights is about 1-2 years behind (it worked during RMR, not now). Base precision light missile explosion velocity (exp.v) is 3,000m/s. With Target Navigation Prediction V its 4,500m/s. You won't be killing an average 7k/s inty with that despite the 3-4 weeks time investment. Essentially spending a day to make 100-120mil isk > 3-4 week time investment. While in an inty vs inty, combat maneuvering will work to a degree, ACM is rendered less effective at high level dogfights (10-14k/s levels) due to ACM not reducing said 10-14k inty below 6k/s. EDIT - apologies for the double-post. A ship going 10-14 k/s SHOULD be hard to kill.............How is this so hard to understand? The OP wasn't attacked by 7 inty's, it probably had a vaga, huginn, ishtar, etc in there too. So now add to the fact that all these ships are incredibly expensive when fitted for nano? Why can't the economics directly affect ship performance? Eve is all about isk. The simple fact is the OP thought they outnumbered the gang when in fact a smaller lighter force that had spent way more money won the fight. It also sounds like the nano gang was clearly the smarter party. It's not that hard people, pick a target, spread out so it can't orbit all of you out of range and blow it up! JEEEEZ. It's not like this mega went down right away, no way it did. As soon as you kill a nano ship or get close to it they usually run away since their ships are so damn expensive. Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:41:00 - [103] Originally by: Terraform Originally by: Euriti "OMG I CANT WIN IN COOKIECUTTER HACK AND SLASH SETUP NERF NREF NREF NREF" Just no. Nanos add flavor to the game and more dynamic play. Nerfing nanos would also destroy Ishtar, Wow, this post takes the prize for being the most ********. First of all, Nanos ARE a cookiecutter setup, don't think it isn't! Second of all, yes, variety is good, but everyone and his cat is flying nano, so where's the variety? third, The ishtar was fine before nanos, i'm sure it'll be fine after it as well. It didn't come out the way I wanted. Let me rephrase: "OMG I CANT WIN IN AN F1-F8 THEN ORBIT TANK AND DAMAGE SETUP NERF PLX" Just no. Nano's add more flavor to the game and more dynamic play. Nanocombat is more exciting than above slowboat combat with no dynamic action. Nerfing nanos would also make the Ishtar very mediocre, essentially just a mini dominix which is more agile and a bit faster, but more fragile. Did I express myself better?
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:52:00 - [104] Originally by: Captain Sonata Just looked at the killboard, the Sex Panther's guy flies minmatar almost exclusively, vagabonds in particular, no wonder he's defending the whole nano thing so strongly. You do know that a vaga without ANY speed mods but 2 Polycarbs will still go over 4k per second. With 2 ODs it will go in excess of 4.5k and the nano nerf is supposed to be stacking speed mods. The nerf won't hit the Vaga but every other nano ship. What ship are people whining about? Vaga mostly.
Efdi Minmatar Brannigan's Law	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:58:00 - [105] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Fit a MWD. OSHI- (Oh, look. A one-liner.) Also, :boosh:.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:59:00 - [106] Originally by: Leon 026 * 7k/s inty is just an inty with T2 MWD and polycarb. Nothing special. Its average. A highly specialized inty, would be a 10k/s crow [gistii + polycarb], or a 14-16k/s crow [gistii, polycarbs, snakes] my crow gets 7km/s with t2 mwd, no rigs, zors custom hyper nav, 2 other 3% implants, and skirmish warfare 3. were I to train a few more skills up i could get that 7km/s without the skirmish warfare. just under 10km a sec with poly carbs and t2 fit. Anyways, medium pulse lasers hit nanofags rather nice.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:05:00 - [107] I'm still wondering why the OP didn't take 10 of their BSs, warp to a gate/planet/asteroid belt/whatever. Then warp back in at 100-150km, call a target and one-volley a few of those nanos. You only had to kill one or two and the others would have panicked and scattered. If they attack the other fleet, they are in range of the original fleet's longer-ranged ships. Unless everything was plated blaster boats, in which case I recommend you evaluate taking a mixed fleet next time. Maybe with remote reppers, support ships, etc. One trick fleets normally turn into wrecks against a better-prepared enemy....
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:06:00 - [108] Originally by: Efdi Originally by: Marcus Druallis Fit a MWD. OSHI- (Oh, look. A one-liner.) Also, :boosh:. You didn't elaborate much yourself there bud. I said a one-liner because that is all it needs. People state that nano ships are faster than BS's even when neuted. This is not true. Fit a goddamn MWD to your pvp ships. Without doing this you have no right to ***** about the state of combat. Ever. --
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:07:00 - [109] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Nanos are limited to Ishtar, Curse, Vagabond, Rapier, Huggin. Scimitar, Zealot, Cerebus, etc. Not all nano up that well (ie: cerebus), but most nano because it works. Anything cruiser sized with the right slot layouts works. Originally by: Marcus Druallis You also do realize the amount of isk that is POURED into these ships. As stated before isk should give an edge. Speed gives way more than an edge so yet more isk is spent on speed related ships/modules. Many of these ships cost around 200-250mil which isn't that much isk in comparison to what they can do. The isk is far better spent on speed than for a battleship. Originally by: Megan Maynard The simple fact is the OP thought they outnumbered the gang when in fact a smaller lighter force that had spent way more money won the fight. It also sounds like the nano gang was clearly the smarter party. Yes, the OP made a mistake. They should have brought nanos themselves to the fight. Anything else that isn't there expressly to support the nanos (logistics/falons) was a liablity. If you add it up most likely the 30man gang brought more in terms of isk. The smaller gang was smarter as they spent their isk on what counts: speed. Originally by: Euriti Nano's add more flavor to the game and more dynamic play. Nanocombat is more exciting than above slowboat combat with no dynamic action. Quote: They force everyone to fit mwd. They force everyone to bring along huginns/rapiers and their own counter nanos. They force everyone to adopt cookie cutter setups. Quick, tell me the standard fittings for a vaga, ishtar, etc. Perhaps its not the cookie cutter nano versus cookie cutter nanos fights that you like. Perhaps its speed. Then by adding a long range, low strength web (based on sig radius?) nanos could go crazy fast but be countered by a few non nanos working together. The only thing that makes sense to fly these days are nanos or nano support.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:07:00 - [110] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby I'm still wondering why the OP didn't take 10 of their BSs, warp to a gate/planet/asteroid belt/whatever. Then warp back in at 100-150km, call a target and one-volley a few of those nanos. You only had to kill one or two and the others would have panicked and scattered. If they attack the other fleet, they are in range of the original fleet's longer-ranged ships. Unless everything was plated blaster boats, in which case I recommend you evaluate taking a mixed fleet next time. Maybe with remote reppers, support ships, etc. One trick fleets normally turn into wrecks against a better-prepared enemy.... but but but blasters and heavy drones do more dps!!!!!

Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:11:00 - [111] Edited by: Marcus Druallis on 24/04/2008 18:11:04 Originally by: ***zilla Originally by:** Marcus Druallis Nanos are limited to Ishtar, Curse, Vagabond, Rapier, Huggin. Scimitar, Zealot, Cerebus, etc. Not all nano up that well (ie: cerebus), but most nano because it works. Anything cruiser sized with the right slot layouts works. Originally by: Marcus Druallis You also do realize the amount of isk that is POURED into these ships. As stated before isk should give an edge. Speed gives way more than an edge so yet more isk is spent on speed related ships/modules. Many of these ships cost around 200-250mil which isn't that much isk in comparison to what they can do. The isk is far better spent on speed than for a battleship. Originally by: Megan Maynard The simple fact is the OP thought they outnumbered the gang when in fact a smaller lighter force that had spent way more money won the fight. It also sounds like the nano gang was clearly the smarter party. Yes, the OP made a mistake. They should have brought nanos themselves to the fight. Anything else that isn't there expressly to support the nanos (logistics/falons) was a liablity. If you add it up most likely the 30man gang brought more in terms of isk. The smaller gang was smarter as they spent their isk on what counts: speed. Originally by: Euriti Nano's add more flavor to the game and more dynamic play. Nanocombat is more exciting than above slowboat combat with no dynamic action. Quote: They force everyone to fit mwd. They force everyone to bring along huginns/rapiers and their own counter nanos. They force everyone to adopt cookie cutter setups. Quick, tell me the standard fittings for a vaga, ishtar, etc. Perhaps its not the cookie cutter nano versus cookie cutter nanos fights that you like. Perhaps its speed. Then by adding a long range, low strength web (based on sig radius?) nanos could go crazy fast but be countered by a few non nanos working together. The only thing that makes sense to fly these days are nanos or nano support. [/quote/] The other ships you mention for nano's nano up horribly. Missiles tear them apart, and they can't even really do damage at speed. And yes, alot of money is spent on BS's, but those are fully insurable. A polyrigged vagabond is not. --
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:13:00 - [112] Originally by: *****zilla They force everyone to fit mwd. You really should on most battleships.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:17:00 - [113] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby I'm still wondering why the OP didn't take 10 of their BSs, If they've a mixed gang they may not have 10 snipers. What you're suggesting is fairly complicated and unlikely to work as a spur of a moment tactic. It requires: 1) Splitting the fleet into snipers + cover 2) Using a ceptor for the sling 3) Waiting for the BS to align, warp, align, warp 4) Doing 10k-18k alpha for the one shot, or having enough suicidal tacklers to hold a nano for 20-30 seconds. 5) Warping out before the nanos are on top of the snipers What you're suggesting is a great setup for the nanos. It splits the fleet and makes it easier to pick off targets. The snipers are unlikely to have the dps for the one shot nor the tacklers for follow ups. Most likely what happens is the nanos don't sit still and use the time in warp to pick off more targets. There is a tactic that is excellent for groups of 30man gangs and is dramatically simpler to execute: fly nanos.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:18:00 - [114] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Efdi Originally by: Marcus Druallis Fit a MWD. OSHI- (Oh, look. A one-liner.) Also, :boosh:. You didn't elaborate much yourself there bud. I said a one-liner because that is all it needs. People state that nano ships are faster than BS's even when neuted. This is not true. Fit a goddamn MWD to your pvp ships. Without doing this you have no right to ***** about the state of combat. Ever. Agility says you are wrong. It takes 23+ seconds for any battleship to get to 3/4 speed. A vagabond will be going 533 or more in about 5 seconds. And that is if it doesn't have any cap left for a single burst. This means that in 23 seconds for you to get to 700m/s the Vagabond has traveled around 7km more than you.[This is assuming you were not moving at the time of the neuting which may increase this time significantly] 7km is typically enough to get him out of the range of heavy neutralizers and scramblers. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Efdi Minmatar Brannigan's Law	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:19:00 - [115] Originally by: Marcus Druallis You didn't elaborate much yourself there bud. I said a one-liner because that is all it needs. People state that nano ships are faster than BS's even when neuted. This is not true. Fit a goddamn MWD to your pvp ships. Without doing this you have no right to ***** about the state of combat. Ever. Not sure why you're trying to troll me, I happen to agree with you. My poast was in response to Lyria Faildancer.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:20:00 - [116] Originally by: *****zilla What you're suggesting is a great setup for the nanos. It splits the fleet and makes it easier to pick off targets. The snipers are unlikely to have the dps for the one shot nor the tacklers for follow ups. Most likely what happens is the nanos don't sit still and use the time in warp to pick off more targets. It also makes the battleships themselves more vulnerable since they won't have the tracking to hit the smaller ships once they have closed at all, which might give the nano-ships a very strong absolute dps advantage. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:23:00 - [117] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Efdi Originally by: Marcus Druallis Fit a MWD. OSHI- (Oh, look. A one-liner.) Also, :boosh:. You didn't elaborate much yourself there bud. I said a one-liner because that is all it needs. People state that nano ships are faster than BS's even when neuted. This is not true. Fit a goddamn MWD to your pvp ships. Without doing this you have no right to ***** about the state of combat. Ever. Agility says you are wrong. It takes 23+ seconds for any battleship to get to 3/4 speed. A vagabond will be going 533 or more in about 5 seconds. And that is if it doesn't have any cap left for a single burst. This means that in 23 seconds for you to get to 700m/s the Vagabond has traveled around 7km more than you.[This is assuming you were not moving at the time of the neuting which may increase this time significantly] 7km is typically enough to get him out of the range of heavy neutralizers and scramblers. Yes, if this was a one on one fight between the single neuting BS and the Vagabond, in the end the vaga would leave the field and the BS would hold it. WHo wins, you tell me. BUT. It is much more likely that the BS has a friend or two, and they would easily be able to outmanuever the Vagabond to keep him in range. --
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:23:00 - [118] Originally by: Efdi Originally by: Marcus Druallis You didn't elaborate much yourself there bud. I said a one-liner because that is all it needs. People state that nano ships are faster than BS's even when neuted. This is not true. Fit a goddamn MWD to your pvp ships. Without doing this you have no right to ***** about the state of combat. Ever. Not sure why you're trying to troll me, I happen to agree with you. My poast was in response to Lyria Faildancer. I thought you were doing the opposite lol. --
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:31:00 - [119] Originally by: Goumindong It also makes the battleships themselves more vulnerable since they won't have the tracking to hit the smaller ships once they have closed at all, which might give the nano-ships a very strong absolute dps advantage. If the BSs in the OP's situation can't handle 5 nanos with their friends within rep range, they were going to die anyways. The snipers WILL destroy any nanos that remain to fight and if they turn to engage the remote snipers then they contend with the group they just left. All of life isn't 1-10km. If you don't adjust your tactics, you will die. Simple enough. THAT is why people don't like nanos; the tried-true plated blaster setups can't fight them effectively and you have to alter your fittings to a more rounded approach.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:32:00 - [120] Edited by: Marcus Druallis on 24/04/2008 18:41:20 Originally by: *****zilla Yes. Losing a rigged vaga hurts. The vaga is still a better deal regardless of how much less a bs with insurance is or how much polys are. Spending lots of isk on fittings (billions) should not give that dramatic of an edge. This is the same argument for nanophoons. According to who? You? What about Titans and Motherships. Should you get an edge for investing billions into those? The ability to pop a fleet maybe?

Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:35:00 - [121] lol you also have to laugh at the people that ***** about turret nano ships and drone nano ships. Kill the damn drones. And turret nano ships can't hit you while they are nanoing either. Stop whining on the forums, because you'll never be able to logon and learn to adapt.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:48:00 - [122] Edited by: ***zilla on 24/04/2008 18:49:05 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby The snipers WILL destroy any nanos that remain to fight and if they turn to engage the remote snipers then they contend with the group they just left. If they turn to engage the remote snipers the other group won't have anything to engage with. You left your close range ships and slower support there remember? The nanos were just handed a great opportunity by either going close to the snipers or keeping range from the close up ships. Having the hostile count split makes it easier to work. With the warps the snipers are likely to lose numbers as they warp off a few are bubbled and pop before the others can get back. There is a very simple counter tactic. Fly nanos. Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby All of life isn't 1-10km. If you don't adjust your tactics, you will die. Simple enough. Absolutely. Fly nanos. Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby THAT is why people don't like nanos; the tried-true plated blaster setups can't fight them effectively Nor do missiles, most drones, lower sp characters, etc. But nanos work great against nanos. Fly nanos. Originally by: Marcus Druallis ... because you'll never be able to logon and learn to adapt. Most of us have; we fly nanos. I agree. Those whining should just wise up and fly nanos.
Pesadel0 Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:50:00 - [123]
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 18:56:00 - [124] Originally by: ****zilla Edited by: ****zilla on 24/04/2008 18:49:05 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby The snipers WILL destroy any nanos that remain to fight and if they turn to engage the remote snipers then they contend with the group they just left. If they turn to engage the remote snipers the other group won't have anything to engage with. You left your close range ships and slower support there remember? The nanos were just handed a great opportunity by either going close to the snipers or keeping range from the close up ships. Having the hostile count split makes it easier to work. With the warps the snipers are likely to lose numbers as they warp off a few are bubbled and pop before the others can get back. There is a very simple counter tactic. Fly nanos. Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby All of life isn't 1-10km. If you don't adjust your tactics, you will die. Simple enough. Absolutely. Fly nanos. Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby THAT is why people don't like nanos; the tried-true plated blaster setups can't fight them effectively Nor do missiles, most drones, lower sp characters, etc. But nanos work great against nanos. Fly nanos. Originally by: Marcus Druallis ... because you'll never be able to logon and learn to adapt. Most of us have; we fly nanos. I agree. Those whining should just wise up and fly nanos. Not so stealth wah wah anyone?
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:11:00 - [125] nano is for minnies! it's all they have... -.- but yeah... the MWD speed boost is over the top - +300% boost/signature should do the trick. oh and -75% webs maximum then. - putting the gist back into logistics
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:37:00 - [126] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby If the BSs in the OP's situation can't handle 5 nanos with their friends within rep range, they were going to die anyways. The snipers WILL destroy any nanos that remain to fight and if they turn to engage the remote snipers then they contend with the group they just left. we are talking about the snipers... These are remote-rep snipers then? My, what great tracking and damage they have? There is a reason no one but Bruce does this[hint: its the worst of both worlds]
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:39:00 - [127] Originally by: Marcus Druallis lol you also have to laugh at the people that ***** about turret nano ships and drone nano ships. Kill the damn drones. And turret nano ships can't hit you while they are nanoing either. Stop whining on the forums, because you'll never be able to logon and learn to adapt. Yes they can, please check the hit rates of large turrets[and hell, small turrets] against cruiser sized targets orbiting without their MWDs of. The damage reduction is not perfect, but its significant due to tracking for large guns and range for smaller that its a very significant damage reduction technique.
Matrixcvd Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:41:00 - [128] moar whine than usual.... these threads get moar hilarous all the time... nanos are fine speed is fine plenty of tactics no counters stop cryin, start flyin
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:41:00 - [129] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Yes, if this was a one on one fight between the single neuting BS and the Vagabond, in the end the vaga would leave the field and the BS would hold it. WHo wins, you tell me. BUT. It is much more likely that the BS has a friend or two, and they would easily be able to outmanuever the Vagabond to keep him in range. Its also just as likely that the vagabond has friends, because only an idiot of a vagabond pilot is going to attack a battleship when he is outnumbered and/or there is perfectly good support to pop first.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:43:00 - [130] Edited by: Leon 026 on 24/04/2008 19:42:59 Originally by: Marcus Druallis snip You realize your "average" inty is using WAY more isk in rigs than it would spend on the "specialized" MWD would spend. B-type gistii costs 45 million. It will get you to 10km/s with rigs, so don't pull that a-type only works stuff. So an average inty is spending 100+ million in rigs on a 8-12 million ship. And to make it a "specialized" ship, they only need to add 45 million more? Your logic fails. So I used a [Poly] -> [Poly + MWD] -> [Poly + MWD + Snake] progression. Whats the big deal? Did you prefer that I go the [MWD] -> [MWD + Poly] -> [MWD + Poly + Snake] progression? Oh hell, maybe I should've written [Snake] -> [Snake + Poly] -> [Snake + Poly + MWD] ? What's your exact point to the reply other than attempting to argue semantics of a choice order list? Originally by: Megan Maynard A ship going 10-14 k/s SHOULD be hard to kill.............How is this so hard to understand? Yes it should be hard to kill as the investment gives me them an edge, but unlike your initial post which I quote "THEY SHOULD WIN", so which is it? Should they win, or should they be hard to kill? You tell me, I wrote that isk investment should give them an edge, not "should win". At the same time, you're neglecting to comment on the fact that some weapons that were designed to fight high-speed targets, are no longer capable of doing so. Originally by: Megan Maynard So now add to the fact that all these ships are incredibly expensive when fitted for nano? Why can't the economics directly affect ship performance? Eve is all about isk. The simple fact is the OP thought they outnumbered the gang when in fact a smaller lighter force that had spent way more money won the fight. It also sounds like the nano gang was clearly the smarter party. I don't know why you're bringing up the OP when I didn't even address it, but okay. The "economics" of the nano factor is hardly a way to discourage people from using nanos. Why? Because its a known fact that people have more access to money-making methods, and have more money in their wallet. For a person that is actually serious about investing in an interceptor, then a 90-120mil isk investment in polycarbs rigs is pocket-change in light of long term gains made by the speed boost benefits. Originally by: Megan Maynard It's not that hard people, pick a target, spread out so it can't orbit all of you out of range and blow it up! JEEEEZ. You do realize that that is actually the best way to get killed by a skirmishing nano gang yea? Stragglers and people that wander away from the main group are the first to get picked off and die - this is quite basic.

Everyone Dies Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:46:00 - [131] nanos are probably the most imbalanced messed up thing in eve. nerf them to hell.
Indyman tech2	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:49:00 - [132] Wow, people really feel the need to vent now don't they?
Everyone Dies Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:50:00 - [133] Originally by: ***zilla Originally by:** Marcus Druallis The other ships you mention for nano's nano up horribly. ... those are fully insurable. A polyrigged vagabond is not. Yes, but a bad nano is better than no nano. I was playing with a few scimitars and a small gang. Slowest scimitar was about 4km/s and fastest was about 7km/s. All fairly cheap fittings and implants circling a ball of about 40-50 hostiles on a gate. The hostiles really couldn't do much. Yes. Losing a rigged vaga hurts. The vaga is still a better deal regardless of how much less a bs with insurance is or how much polys are. Spending lots of isk on fittings (billions) should not give that dramatic of an edge. This is the same argument for nanophoons. This
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 19:55:00 - [134] Originally by: Matrixcvd moar whine than usual.... these threads get moar hilarous all the time... nanos are fine speed is fine plenty of tactics no counters stop cryin, start flyin Absolutely. Everyone and their step brother should be flying nanos by now. Don't bring non nanos to a nano fight. Originally by: Leon 026 You do realize that that is actually the best way to get killed by a skirmishing nano gang yea? Shhh! You're reducing the number of possible targets. They need to spread out. Way out. Things like remote reps on battleships which require close ranges are overrated. Advising heavy ships that can't move fast to spread out and also the use of modules like remote reps which are very close range isn't a contradiction.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.04.24 20:04:00 - [135] Edited by: Leon 026 on 24/04/2008 20:05:50 Originally by: ****zilla Shhh! You're reducing the number of possible targets. They need to spread out. Way out. Things like remote reps on battleships which require close ranges are overrated. Advising heavy ships that can't move fast to spread out and also the use of modules like remote reps which are very close range isn't a contradiction. I was debating that myself :( Being a skirmish centric pilot I was quite tempted to leave that alone >_> ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings*
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 20:06:00 - [136] Originally by: Goumindong we are talking about the snipers... These are remote-rep snipers then? My, what great tracking and damage they have? There is a reason no one but Bruce does this[hint: its the worst of both worlds] I have always wondered why you are fairly bright on most topics but go completely cookoo about Nanos. You always go way out of the way to "prove" your point, making your whole argument get buried in the non-sense. Obviously you don't mount remote reppers on your ships. Strange, I thought that was a fairly common practice to use your extra highs for most of our war enemies have. I mean we even mount them on our mission ships and turtle our newer members so they aren't in any danger when we don't feel like bringing out the logistics ships to protect them. Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.04.24 20:17:00 - [137] Edited by: Ulstan on 24/04/2008 20:23:34 Frankly, nanos are the new WCS. Warp core stabilizers were nerfed because they let people engage and then bug out of battle whenever they felt like it, with no ill consequences, barring an unreasonably herculean response from their opponents. Nanos are much the same way, except that filling your slots with propulsion mods gives you a better tank than filling your slots with WCS. I don't think a whole lot needs to be done however. A few obvious things stand out: polycarbs are way too good compared to their module version, and shoul be brought back into line with all other rigs compared to their module versions. Missile explosion velocity is much too low for some missiles (particularly heavies) meaning it is trivially easy for a ship to go fast enough to be immune to all missiles shot by everyone on the battlefield. At least with turrets you can't have high transversal to everyone at once.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.24 20:19:00 - [138] Edited by: Goumindong on 24/04/2008 20:20:03 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby ... Have you ever tried to fit a remote rep sniper gang out? Not only are you very short on powergrid, but you drop DPS and range etc in order to make them tankable. No, they all universally end up with no range, not enough tracking, and low DPS or a terribly weak tank even with the RR going. They not only cannot kill the nanogang but will lose to a conventional remote rep gang or gank/tank gang or ewar gang or sniping bs gang, etc, etc, etc. In the end, even if you don't lose battleships because you brought enough to RR their DPS you won't kill them Vote Goumindong for CSM
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.24 20:19:00 - [139] Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 24/04/2008 20:20:48 Originally by: Leon 026 Edited by: Leon 026 on 24/04/2008 20:05:50 Originally by: ***zilla Shhh! You're reducing the number of possible targets. They need to spread out. Way out. Things like remote reps on battleships which require close ranges are overrated. Advising heavy ships that can't move fast to spread out and also the use of modules like remote reps which are very close range isn't a contradiction. I was debating that myself :( Being a skirmish centric pilot I was quite tempted to leave that alone >_> ~ 8500 km range on larges. Max 50% on a vaga is... some 22km? By using a lattice formation you can easily keep 3-4 remote reps on each ship in a gang of 30 (the OP's *-complaint) while covering enough distance to be far enough away from the extremities that your guns can track them at that range. Even with 5 BSs you can cover a 15km area easily, making the ships come within web range if they circle and requiring the nano pilots to actually fly their ships. Of course that actually requires the defending gang to fly their ships too, get in a formation, be aware of their FC, etc and not just F1-F8... But the OP's point of them being able to pop a Mega with just 5 nanos is about silly. That is telling me they didn't have any support at all, no ability to back each other up, no ewar, etc. Its full of stupidity and stupid people SHOULD die. added I should have said Mega in a WAR gang of 30 ships... Originally by:** Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.24 20:56:00 - [140] Edited by: NightmareX on 24/04/2008 20:58:10 Originally by: Ulstan Edited by: Ulstan on 24/04/2008 20:23:34 Frankly, nanos are the new WCS. So by saying that, is all Interceptors the new WCS to? Because it's 8586758 times easier to get out and survive with an Interceptor than it is with a Vagabond. And saying the nanos is the new WCS is only beeing said by noobs who don't know how to PVP. END OF STORY. And everytime you reply to a nano topic, you ALWAYS say the same over and over and over......... Maybe you should try to find more out about nanos and play the game before you post next time, because that LOL comment is old.

Garion Avarr Amarr Zero Zero Traders	Posted - 2008.04.24 21:05:00 - [141] Originally by: Leon 026 Originally by: Garion Avarr Originally by: Indyman tech2 i was in this fight with this guy in 00, then all of a sudden this gang shows up out of nowhere, and i'm like wtf...and not only that, my support fleet of 30 poeple couldn't catch them....and this was only like 5 people in nanos vs us...and they killed our megathron pilot, THEN WARPED AWAY WITH NO LOSSES...thats so stupid. itsl ike the new wcs, no need to commit to a fight. It's called hit and run. Guerilla Warfare. Read up on the historical uses of it. Then understand why the fact that it exists along with regular fleet combat makes Eve a richer game, both on a tactical and strategic level. As one can see with my reinclusion of the quote from the OP, I was mainly addressing his complaints. To address your objections that my response does not work for his complaint: Originally by: Leon 026 The whole basis of hit and run is to make use of a lighter, understrength and more agile unit/group to take on a larger group which they would not be able to in a straight up conventional fight. That seems to be exactly what happened here, and what he complains about. Originally by: Leon 026 Guerilla warfare (both in historical and EVE gameplay context) does not rely on flying too fast to be hit - its about being flexible, so to be quite honest, trying to defend the current situation by pulling that 'reference' out of nowhere is misplaced. I wouldn't quite say that it's misplaced . . . though if I implied that it was about flying to fast to be hit, I appologize, as that was not my intention. Rather, I was addressing the 'not having to risk all your forces in committing to a fight,' which is a part of guerilla warfare, and something the OP complained about, their ability to not commit due to their supperior mobility. Originally by: Leon 026 Skirmish warfare adds a strategic level, yes. But the current variant of 'skirmish' warfare is simply blobs on wheels, and adds nothing to the overall strategic enrichment of EVE gameplay. The OP mentioned five foes, which is hardly a blob. Certainly anything under about 15 or 20 people can't really be called a blob, due to the size of the fleets I usually fly with, I'd hesitate to call anything under 40 or 50 a blob, though I'm aware that a 'blob' for most people starts well below that. I don't fly in 0.0 (and not lots in lowsec), maybe there are blobs of 50+ nanoships out there, I wouldn't know. But either way, that's not what the OP was complaining about, so I used the example that was best suited. 'Blobs on wheels' makes me think of mechanized warfare, though -- maybe it becomes blitzkreig then? ________________________________ This is not a signature.
Red Thunder	Posted - 2008.04.24 21:10:00 - [142] nanos are completely fine the way they are. There are loads of ways to counter them, neuts, missiles, webs, decent tracking etc. If you need to whine about getting killed by nanos its because: a. your opponent is more skilled than you. or b. your just too much of a noob to understand how to counter it. A lot of people in this thread are b. now stop whining noobs
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.04.24 21:15:00 - [143] Quote: There are loads of ways to counter them...missiles lolwhat? How is your nano getting hit by cruise and heavy missiles?
NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.24 21:21:00 - [144] A Vagabond / other HAC's attacks a Raven with 6x cruise launchers and 2x Heavy Neuts, lololololLOOOOOL, good luck with that.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 21:29:00 - [145] Originally by: NightmareX So by saying that, is all Interceptors the new WCS to? Because it's 8586758 times easier to get out and survive with an Interceptor than it is with a Vagabond. Ceptors are balanced because while they can go fast they've no tank and not much dps. Nanos have greatly replaced ceptors as the premier tackler due to superior dps and buffer tank. I think that many asking to nerf nanos are specific about nerfing nanos on anything cruiser sized or larger. As it stands ceptors and assault frigs need a major buff if nano cruisers are to remain in game. The t1 frigs are useless against nanos. They need some serious love with nanos in the game. The eas hyena is the best frig at the moment. Requiring t2 frigs to play with nanos is silly. Originally by: Garion Avarr That seems to be exactly what happened here, and what he complains about. Mobility usually means hitting loan targets. Getting into and out of belts quickly. Getting on grid, fine. Not going where they want through the hostile fleet. The nano problem is that they can get very much in the face of a much larger fleet and disengage at will. Effectively run back and forth taunting a firing squad knowing that if they keep their speed up they won't be seriously hit. Originally by: Leon 026 'not having to risk all your forces in committing to a fight,' which is a part of guerilla warfare, and something the OP complained about, their ability to not commit due to their supperior mobility. Guerilla warfare works because the smaller force forms up quickly and appears out of no where. They must commit to a fight. Guerilla quickly wither in the face of a large force. Guerillas can withdrawal and disperse quickly. Their mobility allows them to quickly commit and disengage. But they must commit. Their mobility allows them to pick the fight (fine) but the hostiles can and will give chase.
Corwain Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR	Posted - 2008.04.24 21:31:00 - [146] "whiners": The myrm is overpowered! it does 200dps more than the next damaging Tier2 BC and tanks better at the same time! Myrm pilots: The drake can tank it indefinatly without cap! The harb has more range! The hurricane is faster! CCP: Nerfed! "whiners": nanos are overpowered! They fly 5x as fast as a non-nanoed ship. They're so good that nobody flies anything but them in 0.0 unless they're killing a POS or sieging a system! nano pilots: Well at least we can be killed every now and then when we make a mistake. Also what will we do if we're not fast? It's the only thing we do well because we fail at everything else. Also blobs make us cry! Ignore the fact that we blob more than anyone else and actually create blobs as it takes a 5:1 ratio against us to kill 1 of us and make the rest run away crying (but glad we still have our 13km/s 10bil ISK rapier that hasn't died in a year!) Yeah, the fact that you die once a year (SRSLY, GUYZ! I DID DIE ONCE) doesn't mean that you're not overpowered. All you have to do to be overpowered is gasp be slightly more powerful than the alternative. You don't even have to be game-breaking. I'm not saying that nanos are overpowered, but if you want to argue that you're not overpowered stop using the fact that nanoships have at one time died as your only defense. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
joshmorris AnTi. Atrocitas	Posted - 2008.04.24 21:37:00 - [147] Originally by: ***zilla Originally by:** Euriti "OMG I CANT WIN IN COOKIECUTTER HACK AND SLASH SETUP NERF NREF NREF NREF" Yes, because a cookiecutter nano setup is vastly superior. Fly Nano Spaceships (tm). Originally by: Phil Miller Nano need a nerf. A hard cap of 3km/s, while at the same increasing the effectives and range of webs. But then how would a small gang go toe to toe with a larger blob picking off ships at will? How would they run away when the other side doesn't have nanos & nano minm recons? As it stands now there is no reason to not fly nanos. The game changes. Adapt. Fly nanos. Drink the Koolaid. Well yeah please fly more frikin nanos .. i just love it when my mega pops them ... Uber idea solves all !!
Andracin Free Galactic Enterprises Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2008.04.24 21:38:00 - [148] Ive done my share of dying to vagas, I aslo can fly them. TBH they are not much more than a fast ball of tinfoil and the least amount of damage turns them into scrap fast. 90% of everyone I have seen killed by them are usually doing something stupid like trying to fly out solo to tackle it or not paying attention to local and suddenly find one in a belt with you 3/4 of the way through your hulk before you stop watching tv to come see what the noise on your pc's speakers is about. Flying a nano ship and fighting nano ships I can attest to how fast they die. Mostly the solo vagas are out for easy kills and to zoom through your defense force spraying with ineffectual fire and making jokes about how inept you are in local. Most of the time if you don't have a ship that can catch one, best defense is to dock up and not talk. Marauding pirate vagas are there for excitement or smack talk and when they don't get it from you and your fleet of ships that can't catch it they go find someone else who will give them more enjoyment.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.04.24 22:01:00 - [149] Edited by: Leon 026 on 24/04/2008 22:04:57 Originally by: Garion Avarr Interesting stuff I didn't want to address the OP too too much mainly because well... his gang composition wouldn't have handle a small scale skirmish gang anyways, but.... My main "blob on wheels" comment was more about the increasing tradition to have gangs consisting off all-out nano huginns/rapiers, vagas, inties, dictors, ishtars, claymore(s) that in essense would make up a quite heavy hitting fleet on it own, with the added benefit of the zoomzoom capabilities. My personal view of the original nano is to have understrength gangs raiding into hostile territory picking off stragglers - which is what is going right now to an extent. I'm not advocating a removal of skirmish warfare, on the contrary I fully advocate skirmish warfare and would rather CCP look into improving skirmish warfare in EVE. My main personal issue with 'nanos', is not that its game-breaking and everyone should fly boring battleships, its just that the current state of nano's is a little too extreme. I'm all for high paced skirmish gangs hitting enemy strategic assets and all, but I honestly do not believe that having ships fly as fast as they currently do is adding a positive effect to the game. People want their skirmish warfare, and trust me when I say this, and so do I. However, having focused much of my EVE career thus far on inty vs inty dogfighting, it's led me to realize a few things - After you reach a certain speed level, turrets no longer track you, missiles no longer hurt. When you compare an 8k/s inty to an overloaded 28k/s inty, they do nothing different what so ever, only difference being a 28k/s inty will get to a target faster [in terms of tackling]. However, the main gripe I've had ever since the interia-stab buff was that the faster things fly, the more nerfed small ships become. In an 6k inty vs 6k inty fight, so long as you fly clever, you can avoid damage, yes, but with clever maneuvering you can take out the enemy as he drops his transversal and etc. However the present situation of high level interceptor fights at 14k/s, even WITH clever maneuvering and loop-the-loops, you're lucky to get him consistently under 8k/s where you may have a chance to hit him. And that is basically the principle part of my issue. If people are not able to adapt to fight and counter skirmish gangs, that really isn't my problem, since I personally advocate their use. However its the issue that things are going a little too extreme in ship speed which is, and that imo is two seperate things (which is why you won't see me whining/complaining about use of skirmish gangs, but only about ship speeds). The problem is that as you reach a certain speed weapons are no longer effective, due to ship speeds this is also beginning to apply to cruisers as well. My personal vagabond, can hit 10k/s - not exactly something to boast about, but even WITH the invest isk, I think it's a little too much. And keeping with the frigates going too fast problem (since frig-pvp is what I specialize in), is that the main counter to frigates got horrifically nerfed not too long ago. It had been that the counter to some of the zoomzoom polysnakedgistii 14k/s crows would be the interdictor class, but due to the flat 25% reduction to all interdictors has created a vacuum in the anti-skirmish position. We all knew that the Sabre was a little too powerful, but as some had suspected, the -25% to ALL dictors have disastrously upset the balance. Dictors were a strong, viable and useful counter (and addition) to skirmish warfare gangs, and its effective removal has really upset the balance. As for the blitzkrieg/mechanized infantry idea, thats actually a good one and I'll keep that in mind :) EDIT - no space for this so bullet point format : * high inty speeds has made the claw suck * continuous HP "buffs" to prolong pvp has made "gank with larger numbers" more important = increase in gang size of a skirmish gang ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Tomsudy Minmatar Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.04.24 22:06:00 - [150] Originally by: Indyman tech2 i was in this fight with this guy in 00, then all of a sudden this gang shows up out of nowhere, and i'm like wtf...and not only that, my support fleet of 30 poeple couldn't catch them....and this was only like 5 people in nanos vs us...and they killed our megathron pilot, THEN WARPED AWAY WITH NO LOSSES...thats so stupid. itsl ike the new wcs, no need to commit to a fight. why not just use ur brain and pick the right ships and train for overload

NightmareX Quam Singulari Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.24 22:40:00 - [151] Originally by: ***zilla Originally by:** NightmareX So by saying that, is all Interceptors the new WCS to? Because it's 8586758 times easier to get out and survive with an Interceptor than it is with a Vagabond. Ceptors are balanced because while they can go fast they've no tank and not much dps. Nanos have greatly replaced ceptors as the premier tackler due to superior dps and buffer tank. I think that many asking to nerf nanos are specific about nerfing nanos on anything cruiser sized or larger. As it stands ceptors and assault frigs need a major buff if nano cruisers are to remain in game. The t1 frigs are useless against nanos. They need some serious love with nanos in the game. The eas hyena is the best frig at the moment. Requiring t2 frigs to play with nanos is silly. The thing you don't understand is that the Vaga can't hit targets any good when he have a speed faster than 4k m/s, and the other thing you also don't understand is that when a Vaga is webbed, he's ******* dead man. They might be strong when they are not webbed, but when they get webbed, it's over and out. And it's much much more of a challenge in a Vagabond anyways, because you have to watch out for webbers and you also need to watch out for neutralizers, also your cap, and you have to be very active with overview and handling in space etc. It's not like in a BS that just sit there and F1-F8 and then just sit there and watch. That's why the Vagabond is so fun to fly, it gives you more of a challenge.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.24 23:03:00 - [152] Originally by: NightmareX The thing you don't understand is that the Vaga can't hit targets any good when he have a speed faster than 4k m/s, I understand this. However there are other nanos that aren't dependent on speed for damage. The vaga can always slow down for damage and speed up to escape. Originally by: NightmareX and the other thing you also don't understand is that when a Vaga is webbed, he's ***** dead man. They might be strong when they are not webbed, but when they get webbed, it's over and out. Thats the second problem. I'm not a fan of the extremes with webs. The most effective way to stop a nano is a rapier/huginn. And they're too effective. Anything else has difficulty getting a web on unless they're also nano'd. I'd like to see a happy medium where web != death and other ships besides minm recon can use a much weaker but long range web. This way it takes several ships working together to effective web a vaga. If the vaga can break from a few of the ships it should stand an excellent chance of getting away. A comedy setup with a blackbird and 6x long range webbers might be an easy to pop poor mans huginn. The hyena helps. The problem is still the strength of the web and we're back to requiring certain ships to be effective against nanos. Originally by:** NightmareX And it's much much more of a challenge in a Vagabond anyways, No question they are fun to fly. Fairly challenging. Much of the challenge with flying a nano is the same as flying a fast ceptor. But flying a nano is just that much better.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.25 03:37:00 - [153] Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You can't control the hac pilot. If he orbits he won't be drifting INTO you. That's a fact. There is nothing you can do about that. What is your point except typing one liners? Fit a MWD. I'm sorry but you're stupid. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Sionide Minmatar THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.04.25 04:02:00 - [154] Not sure what all the debate is about. The devs already stated they are going to address the nano thing...let's wait and see? === In Eve, never bring a knife to a knife fight.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.25 04:54:00 - [155] Originally by: Sionide Not sure what all the debate is about. The devs already stated they are going to address the nano thing...let's wait and see? When do the devs address things in a balanced way? Either nanos will be nerfed to oblivion or it'll be something minor and ineffective. So best to talk about it on the off chance we can influence a decision.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.25 05:44:00 - [156] Originally by: ***zilla Originally by:** Sionide Not sure what all the debate is about. The devs already stated they are going to address the nano thing...let's wait and see? When do the devs address things in a balanced way? Either nanos will be nerfed to oblivion or it'll be something minor and ineffective. So best to talk about it on the off chance we can influence a decision. Say goodbye to your noob warfare. L2P. Nano nerf is needed. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Tolsimir Wolfblood	Posted - 2008.04.25 05:54:00 - [157] Cry me a river then get over it. They already nerfed the carbon riggs. What more do u want? Want them to nerf snakes? or maby take out the vagas speed boost? Lest cry some more about the blasterthron wile we are at it. Lets cry about the drake and and the Heavy dicers and there tank. Lets cry about the ishtar and its drones to. Find away to beat them or join them i say. Other then that if u are really that mad about it quit playing the game.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:27:00 - [158] Originally by: Tolsimir Wolfblood Cry me a river then get over it. They already nerfed the carbon riggs. What more do u want? Want them to nerf snakes? or maby take out the vagas speed boost? Lest cry some more about the blasterthron wile we are at it. Lets cry about the drake and and the Heavy dicers and there tank. Lets cry about the ishtar and its drones to. Find away to beat them or join them i say. Other then that if u are really that mad about it quit playing the game. "The Whine is what gives a Forum Warrior his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together." -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Tolsimir Wolfblood	Posted - 2008.04.25 07:38:00 - [159] Edited by: Tolsimir Wolfblood on 25/04/2008 07:41:37 LOL! Forum Warrior. Sounds like a whiney care bear to me.
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.04.25 09:46:00 - [160] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You can't control the hac pilot. If he orbits he won't be drifting INTO you. That's a fact. There is nothing you can do about that. What is your point except typing one liners? Fit a MWD. I'm sorry but you're stupid. You seem to be.

Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:02:00 - [161] Originally by: Euriti Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Marcus Druallis Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You can't control the hac pilot. If he orbits he won't be drifting INTO you. That's a fact. There is nothing you can do about that. What is your point except typing one liners? Fit a MWD. I'm sorry but you're stupid. You seem to be. I would call not understanding something called mass of a ship is pretty stupid when he is on about how much he knows everything compared to me. Seems you and your buddy have something in common. Congrats. Now off you go to your noob intro movie. -------------------------------------- [Video] Angel of War
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.25 10:38:00 - [162] http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/1381/zomgnano2rn2.jpg WTH, somone to achieve that speed ! we are recruiting!
deadmeet	Posted - 2008.04.25 11:09:00 - [163] Lol, with that fit, maybe you can try to warp to a stargate without using warp technology, but nothing else ^^.
Mr Ignitious Gallente R.E.C.O.N. Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.25 11:24:00 - [164] cap lasts 21 seconds \o/
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.25 11:34:00 - [165] Originally by: Mr Ignitious cap lasts 21 seconds \o/ Yeah. Its not really meant to be a practical fit, I can't image you can orbit something without leaving grid. More of a fun fit tough, and I think it would be awesome trying it. 2 seconds and you are 100AU gone, 10 seconds, 500 AU. I am not even sure if it can accelerate to that speed without capping out first. I think you need series of sensor boosted cap transfer ships (sensor boosted, so they can lock before the ZOOOMbond leaves grid). we are recruiting!
kyrv	Posted - 2008.04.25 11:35:00 - [166] Has anyone got a vagabond fitting or hugin of the nanno setup?
Euriti Gallente SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.04.25 11:36:00 - [167] Originally by: Inertial Originally by: Mr Ignitious cap lasts 21 seconds \o/ Yeah. Its not really meant to be a practical fit, I can't image you can orbit something without leaving grid. More of a fun fit tough, and I think it would be awesome trying it. 2 seconds and you are 100AU gone, 10 seconds, 500 AU. I am not even sure if it can accelerate to that speed without capping out first. I think you need series of sensor boosted cap transfer ships (sensor boosted, so they can lock before the ZOOOMbond leaves grid). Would take 23 secs to accelerate to that speed =D
Rollerrat	Posted - 2008.04.25 11:37:00 - [168] Keep nano's as they are, and if anything. Apply a small buff to missiles.
Inertial The Python Cartel	Posted - 2008.04.25 11:40:00 - [169] Having thought this over. The 52.6 km/s Vagabond, is my new goal in EVE. I want to be the fastest pod EVAR! we are recruiting!
Ortos Abyssus Incendia THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.25 11:41:00 - [170] Originally by: Inertial http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/1381/zomgnano2rn2.jpg WTH, somone to achieve that speed ! Seems like a cute way to bump someone.

Evengard Solar Dragons SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2008.04.25 12:29:00 - [171] The problem of the topic starter and all others anti-nano whiners: 1) I can't kill speed inty in my uber drake \ raven with T1 fit. 2) Omg! i can't use my brain. ___________________ Recon and Intercept
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.04.25 14:14:00 - [172] Originally by: Captain Sonata Originally by: Derek Sigres Most nano ships can't go fast enough to evade fire completely those that can are unable to do anything in return. Ishtar, Curse, Rapier/Huggin, Vaga etc -- yeah, poor ol' them, and their ability to not do a thing at range. When I use an indefinite qualifer like "Most" it indicates that I leave room for exception. The Ishtar CAN of course do damage at it's most insane speed setting thanks to it's primary weapon systems being independent from the ship itself. However, the Ishtar's primary weapon system are EASILY destroyed. The Curse is more dangerous but still not terribly deadly left to it's own devices (but in a gang it's pretty spectacularly good). The Rapier/Huggin's primary job in the universe is to web nano ships and to accomplish that goal they inheritly have to move reasonably fast. But neither ship is terribly deadly left to it's own devices. The Vagabond may be staggeringly fast and it's one of the few Hacs that can reach invulnerable speeds but by the same token it doesn't have much of a bite for it's class under the best circumstances and when moving at breakneck speeds it's unable to land hits of it's own. The Vaga is, for all intents and purposes, a heavy tackler that has the option of slowing down and dealing a fair amount of pain. Most nano ships SOLO aren't a threat to a well set up battleship, especially if you carry even a single anti-nano system (with the neut being my favorite as the most reliable). Problem is that nano's generally don't travel alone because they need numbers to make up for their fairly severe sacrifices of firepower.
Red Thunder	Posted - 2008.04.25 21:52:00 - [173] nanos are soooo easy to kill ffs, people who keep dying to them are just noobs. 1. neuts, mwd, and web (works on any ship) 2. overload web 3. simply ceptors with a web fitted who know how to keep transversal high 4. a volley of cruise missiles really hurts a ship unless its going over around 2.7kms (a lot of nanos orbit slower than that) 5. decent tracking...if you have the same tracking as a vaga thats orbiting you then you will kill him as he has 0 tank. 6. ecm and suicide tacklers 7. tracking disruptors and tacklers 8. probably more but im tired and fed up of you noobs indyman, ur fleet is ********. If they had brought a single huginn or curse you would have killed the entire nano gang...but it seems you got what you deserve. red
Darth Kenzie Amarr Ganja Labs Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.25 23:25:00 - [174] Here are why I think Nano's should be left more or less as is baring a major change in the game: Most of us think that blob warefare sucks balls. In 0.0 with the advent of hic's, large cap fleets, jump bridges, and cyno jammers the only way to do small scale raids on your oponets is to be able to move fast enough to get through bubble choke points, stay ahead of the blob up, and actually catch slopy isk ***s is to be fast (3k+). Now to be honest I perfer small scale skirmishes gang vs gang to ganking isk ***s, but nano's seem to lead to those as well. Since speacial tactics are needed to kill nanos (either other nano's or a well rounded suport fleet with tacklers/ew/remote repin') you actually get some fun fights when your targets form up to try to take you down. Nano's also have the advantage of being able to leave the fight if you jump bridge in lag inducing numbers or otherwise make the fight uncool. Unless you all know of another tactic where 4-15 men/women can get fun fights/kills in 0.0 without being blobed/cap'd to death as soon as they hit the intel channels please inform me. No you shouldn't be afraid to lose ships but you should also be able to fight in situations where you have a chance to take a few with you so all sides have some fun. True the guy ganked in the belt doesn't have fun but I think everyone who has ever killed a nano gang will admit its alot of fun knowing how much isk you just took out. The last thing I would like to mention is that Nano's aren't game breaking. They can be killed, it just requires tactics. They can't pack enough firepower to take out pos/station services, they can't actually do more in a war then destroy small groups of your ships (usually pilots I would clasify as having expendable assets anyways) and demoralize your carebears. Sure they can be frustrating but they aren't like oldschool supercaps where they could shift wars without risk. I know there is more to the game then 0.0 but to my knowledge nano's fare very poorly when they encounter sentry guns. As for empire wars, you should be able to figure out how your foe fights and outfit your forces acordingly. Long and short, Nano's are fine... I will only suport weakening them if the game shifts so that other tactics and ship loadouts are able to do raiding type warfare. I know the Black ops bs are suposed to be doing that but tbh they aren't being used because they are crap.
Elles D Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.04.25 23:28:00 - [175] NO U
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.25 23:50:00 - [176] Edited by: Goumindong on 25/04/2008 23:50:28 Originally by: Red Thunder 5. decent tracking...if you have the same tracking as a vaga thats orbiting you then you will kill him as he has 0 tank This exemplifies the just what is wrong with the people who support the status quo. Give me September/October 2006 speed mod balance any day over this. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Anubis Xian Vertigo One	Posted - 2008.04.26 05:56:00 - [177] One of the things I've noticed from some people that argue to keep nanos as is, is that they seem to think people are complaining about interceptors and other ships that are intended to be fast. Ships intended to be ultra fast are not the problem. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. I'm the Juggernaut, *****!
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.26 06:53:00 - [178] Originally by: Goumindong This exemplifies the just what is wrong with the people who support the status quo. Give me September/October 2006 speed mod balance any day over this. Tell you the truth Goumindong, it was just as wacked then as well. What kept the nano fits out of the mainstream was WCS/ECM being the status quo. 200M - 300M HAC prices also might have had something to do with it. I wouldn't be surprised if CCP took the same path with this as they did with the old dual MWD/AB setups. Ya get one overdrive, one nano, one I-Stab and that's it. Interceptors are left mostly untouched and the common nano HACs get reigned in abit. Nano HAC pilots juiced up on implants will still go loony fast, but since they'll spend a few billion for those I can live with that.
El Yatta Mercenary Forces	Posted - 2008.04.26 15:05:00 - [179] It beggars beleif that people who claim they can actually PVP in this game are whining for CCP to nerf a tactic which is reasonably easy to adapt to and combat. Do you need CCP to hold your hand in other aspect of the game? If you lose money on the markets, do you ask them to put in a "Give ISK now" button in high-sec stations? (This one is a joke, they did this in Exodus). The people who whine that "5 nanos attacked my 30 people and killed some then left" are the same people who whine that "blob warfare sucks!!" You cant have it both ways, you cretins - mobility and skirmish warfare are SUPPOSED to be an alternative to huge fleets. If they blobbed you, if they used speed ships, if they sniped you, if they got up close in your face and broke your tank, you whine. At the end of the day, you are ALL whining that you lost. Its because you suck. Get better. _______________________________________________ Mercenary Forces
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.04.26 16:03:00 - [180] Edited by: Wet Ferret on 26/04/2008 16:04:15 Originally by: El Yatta It beggars beleif that people who claim they can actually PVP in this game are whining for CCP to nerf a tactic which is reasonably easy to adapt to and combat. Do you need CCP to hold your hand in other aspect of the game? If you lose money on the markets, do you ask them to put in a "Give ISK now" button in high-sec stations? (This one is a joke, they did this in Exodus). The people who whine that "5 nanos attacked my 30 people and killed some then left" are the same people who whine that "blob warfare sucks!!" You cant have it both ways, you cretins - mobility and skirmish warfare are SUPPOSED to be an alternative to huge fleets. If they blobbed you, if they used speed ships, if they sniped you, if they got up close in your face and broke your tank, you whine. At the end of the day, you are ALL whining that you lost. Its because you suck. Get better. The thing that causes blob warfare is the same thing that causes nanos. People don't want to lose their ship. People also complain that Black Ops are useless. I wonder why. Why sneak past enemy lines when you can just fly right through them? People might blob less if they had reason to use these specialized ships, along with recons the way they were meant to be used (stealthy, not speedy). Nerfing speed would in no way be the end of the world. Anyway, nobody wants speed to be removed from the game. Don't be ignorant. People want more options to kill nanos. Right now, there are many "counters" but very few ways to effectively kill them. To say that they can't kill anything is just a lie, so there is a balance issue there. They are much more deadly that interceptors which are much more fragile, to offer you a comparison. edited- nicer words But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.

Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.26 16:46:00 - [181] Black Ops are whacked because you can't fly behind enemy lines due to cyno jammers[designed to stop capitals]. Not because of nano's. Originally by: AKULA UrQuan Originally by: Goumindong This exemplifies the just what is wrong with the people who support the status quo. Give me September/October 2006 speed mod balance any day over this. Tell you the truth Goumindong, it was just as wacked then as well. What kept the nano fits out of the mainstream was WCS/ECM being the status quo. 200M - 300M HAC prices also might have had something to do with it. I wouldn't be surprised if CCP took the same path with this as they did with the old dual MWD/AB setups. Ya get one overdrive, one nano, one I-Stab and that's it. Interceptors are left mostly untouched and the common nano HACs get reigned in abit. Nano HAC pilots juiced up on implants will still go loony fast, but since they'll spend a few billion for those I can live with that. Ehh, not really. ECM and WCS were strong, but not nearly as strong as nanos are today. With speed mods today, you get the ability of the WCS partially the ECM in one neat handy package. Turn on your MWD and orbit and you aren't going to be hit well except by medium sized pulse lasers with scorch. If you have means to strike back when going fast[missiles, drones etc], then you are doing DPS and they are not. Ditto if you have the range to strike outside of their engagement range. And of course, any ship when specially fit could ruin a WCS fit ships day[one sensor booster, mwd, speed mods, web, NOS, +bunch of points], as well as large numbers of ships doing the same. As well as bubbles. Vote Goumindong for CSM
Gregoriuses Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.26 17:05:00 - [182] CCP can't nerf nanos... other way... they will kill totally point of vaga and curse. Vaga is made to be nano and curse.... since nos nerf is just non spec ship...can't tank and can't be nano (only with implants,which are only for rich people wallet).... So if CCP nerf speed... they will make minmantar and amarr ships+ ishtar totally non usefull. U can't just say...nerf nano. bring solution...bring research of ships ets... if not...don't even post it cose ccp has no time to read every day sugesstion nerfs tbh.
Darineah Charach Minmatar Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.26 20:28:00 - [183] I remember a while back, when i was even more noob than i am now, i used to hate nano gangs because i had no way to do anything about them. I didn't have the skills to fly a minnie recon nor to fit out a nano ship of my own. Now i do, although i don't have the isk for poly vaga i do fly a nano rapier a lot, and i can see the issue from both sides. The problem as i see it isn't so much with nano ships being fast per se, it's more with HOW fast they are. ***zilla has mentioned a few times that the answer to nano gangs is to fly nano. I know it probably wasn't your intention mate but you've pretty much summed up right there that there is a problem that needs to be addressed. If a tactic/setup is effective to the point that the only viable counter is to do the same thing, then there's inhenrently something wrong with it. I don't want to play an EvE where everyone has to do the same thing to compete, i want an EvE where a nano gang can meet a gang with a completely different tactic and they can both compete. Nano's are here to stay, and so they should be. It's a viable, fun and effective way to blow up but the mechanics as they stand could use some tweaking so that it's not the ONLY viable, fun and effective way to blow ** up. ------- Boxing Kangaroo
Darineah Charach Minmatar Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.26 20:37:00 - [184] Oh and as an after thought i think jump bridges have a lot to answer for in the nano equation. They've made blobbing a far greater risk and therefore the ability to escape is of far greater significance. Hence...speed is necessary. ------- Boxing Kangaroo
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.04.26 21:47:00 - [185] Prolly hard to do, but i personally feel that ccp should somehow nerf the huge speeds people can get on ships that are not meant to go very fast or atleast were never intended. impo, it should be like this: first and fastest: Interceptors, why? cuz thats what there made for and the drawback is that their paperthin and against bigger target the damage u do is pretty useless (unless u have the time to peck ur opponent to death) second but still fast: the hacs that are meant for speed, their speed is their weapon, u can't really take that away from them cuz they would pretty much suck, inties would be faster so they would be a serious counter vs these ships. personally i think it went totally down the tube when BS started to reach inty speeds _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.04.26 22:53:00 - [186] Originally by: Gregoriuses CCP can't nerf nanos... other way... they will kill totally point of vaga and curse. Vaga is made to be nano and curse.... since nos nerf is just non spec ship...can't tank and can't be nano (only with implants,which are only for rich people wallet).... So if CCP nerf speed... they will make minmantar and amarr ships+ ishtar totally non usefull. U can't just say...nerf nano. bring solution...bring research of ships ets... if not...don't even post it cose ccp has no time to read every day sugesstion nerfs tbh. In the kingdom of the blind, the one eyed man is king. Originally by: 000Hunter000 Prolly hard to do, but i personally feel that ccp should somehow nerf the huge speeds people can get on ships that are not meant to go very fast or atleast were never intended. impo, it should be like this: first and fastest: Interceptors, why? cuz thats what there made for and the drawback is that their paperthin and against bigger target the damage u do is pretty useless (unless u have the time to peck ur opponent to death) second but still fast: the hacs that are meant for speed, their speed is their weapon, u can't really take that away from them cuz they would pretty much suck, inties would be faster so they would be a serious counter vs these ships. personally i think it went totally down the tube when BS started to reach inty speeds There's one HAC with a speed bonus. Only one. I don't see a problem with that one being pretty quick. I do see a problem with every HAC (as at the moment) being 'good' or 'bad' based on how well it nanos up. I believe that within a size class, the upper end, should _just about_ overlap, speed wise, with the lower end of the class smaller. In general, cruiser hulls, shouldn't be faster than frigate hulls. Even when fitting overdrives/rigs, since as ships get larger, slot counts increase. But having my flycatcher getting run down by HACs makes me sad. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Uncle Smokey	Posted - 2008.04.26 23:16:00 - [187] Originally by: Indyman tech2 my support fleet of 30 poeple couldn't catch them....and this was only like 5 people in nanos vs us...and they killed our megathron pilot U got some guts to actually report something like this happened, i give you that. Your fleet sucks. Big time. "Boost my fleet" would have been a more believable thread. .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. \o/ EVERYBODY SAY HELL YEAH! \o/
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.27 02:23:00 - [188] Originally by: James Lyrus I believe that within a size class, the upper end, should _just about_ overlap, speed wise, with the lower end of the class smaller. In general, cruiser hulls, shouldn't be faster than frigate hulls. Even when fitting overdrives/rigs, since as ships get larger, slot counts increase. This is a key and important part. You cannot make a smaller ship have as much or more range and DPS as a larger ship with any fitting. You cannot make smaller ships have better EHP than larger ships[with the sole exception of the Damnation which does terrible DPS and is slow so it doesn't really matter]. It should also be noted that the vagabond would be plenty fast even with no speed mods[3km/s, assuming nothing else had speed mods]. That isn't to say speed mods should not exist, just that in their current state with current counters they are clearly imbalanced.
Blood Bathroom	Posted - 2008.04.27 03:09:00 - [189] ok are guys really this dumb??? nothing in this game is uber, there is always a counter. nano's GET A HUGGIN/RAPIER!!! if u cant figure it out go back to WOW.... shakes head at *****s...
Blood Bathroom	Posted - 2008.04.27 03:11:00 - [190] And i personnely think someone should call the waaabulance for these ppl.

BIG BOS5	Posted - 2008.04.27 03:11:00 - [191] Nano's don't need to be nerfed cry baby's just need to learn how to adapt. A nano ship has a low effective H.P it will be running a mwd constantly so it's sig radius is through the roof.Think of a way to fight them instead of crying on the forums and sticking your thumb up your rump.
Lorzion Minmatar IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.27 03:35:00 - [192] Originally by: Phil Miller Nano need a nerf. A hard cap of 3km/s, while at the same increasing the effectives and range of webs. Well then if were going with this then heres my idea. At the same time they implement that nerf i want all battleships/battlecruisers/whatelse to have the max damage they can do to a hard cap of 50 with complete crap for tracking speed. then at the same time reduce all effects of armor reps and shield booster/ what ever you use to tank by half. then your battleship would be even to the HAC. And for an extra bonus we can use rainbows and fairies as ammo. Wars would be girlie little slap fights. Everyone would have the skills, and after all of the mean old fighting we could skip merrily through the woods. or you can extort the weaknesses of the nano ships like they do with the weakness of the battleship (bad tracking and etc) with these ideas which were posted. Originally by: Vitrael Killing and Surviving nanoships 101: 1. Bring a Rapier. 2. Bring a Huginn. 3. Bring a Curse. 4. Bring warrior IIs. 5. Overload webs. 6. Bring missile spammers. 7. Bring ECM. 8. Bring tracking disruptors. 9. Bring heavy tankers. 10. Use remote reppers. Like someone said earlier... You bring rock and your friend brings scissors incase you run into paper.
Elmicker Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2008.04.27 03:37:00 - [193] Edited by: Elmicker on 27/04/2008 03:38:40 What makes you think those asking for a rebalance are those on the receiving end? I'm a vaga pilot, i'm maxed in skirmish warfare (mmm, mindlinks), i've got maxed navigation and the only rigs i use are polycarbons. I'm the proverbial nanofag. Just because a single potential "counter" exists, does not make something balanced. I largely agree with goum's/lyrus' point that class speed differentials need to be realigned so there's not so hilariously easy to take the speed/maneuverability attributes of one class and apply them to the ehp/dps of another class. (oh, and none of those counters are actually capable of outright killing a competent nanofag. just making him disengage and run. Half of them aren't even capable of that.)
Lego Maniac Minmatar	Posted - 2008.04.27 03:40:00 - [194] poasting in epic flame/troll bait thread
Captain Sonata Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.27 04:33:00 - [195] Originally by: Lorzion Like someone said earlier... You bring rock and your friend brings scissors incase you run into paper. Except to beat Nano, you need another Nano setup.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.27 05:14:00 - [196] Originally by: Captain Sonata Originally by: Lorzion Like someone said earlier... You bring rock and your friend brings scissors incase you run into paper. Except to beat Nano, you need another Nano setup. I'm pretty sure I can fly a non-nano Huginn and still win. But only way you will survive against anyone who isn't nano'd in a huginn is to nano it. (Ever tried fitting a tank on a huginn? ) I don't need to nano my Huginn except to keep my 100+ mil investment alive when I get dropped by a larger gang. It catches everything else quite nicely. You logic fails... BTW interceptors with webs are not nano-ships, they are interceptors; designed to catch something and hold it for the gang. Not only to point a stationary BS and orbit at 8km/s but to chase down the other fast ships! ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.27 05:33:00 - [197] Originally by: techzer0 Ever tried fitting a tank on a huginn? Huginns, like most minmatar t2 ships aren't really hard to tank at all. E.G. [Huginn, New Setup 1] Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, EMP M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, EMP M Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, EMP M Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Valkyrie II x3 Hobgoblin II x2 3211m/s, 26,772 EHP. Now this is a AWU 5 fit, but the third gun doesn't really add much. Vote Goumindong for CSM
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2008.04.27 06:22:00 - [198] Only two webs?
Red Thunder	Posted - 2008.04.27 08:09:00 - [199] thats all i fit, it slows down any nanoship enough to be practically instapopped.


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