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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 21 post(s) |
Delpsi
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Posted - 2008.05.15 20:02:00 -
[211]
If I'm a miner that sometimes risks losec to get at the ores there, and FW results in even more pirates hanging around in losec, then it is going to be harder than ever to get at those ores. Doesn't matter if I participate in FW or not. Or is the answer that I should never be mining in losec to begin with?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.15 20:08:00 -
[212]
 Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Again, why does it matter who is shooting you, be it FW players or random pirates? That's the bit I don't understand.
And that is why worry.
If I loose my ship to someone doing FW I am happy, I am doing something that from a RP point of view sound good, I am fighting with someone that is fighting me on a equal footing (no skill wise, ship wise, but gamestile wise, he will have my same limitations on targets and general conditions).
On the other hand the pirates will be there playing with different game rules. As usual they will have the advantage of choosing if they want to engage or not, the potential advantage of support from the gate guns is some FW player will try to break the gatecamp, ecc.
Essentially they will be reaping the benefits of FW without the commitment.
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Weeka
Amarr
Tetragrammaton
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Posted - 2008.05.15 20:32:00 -
[213]
Question : What effect, if any, will factional warfare have on current faction ships, taking into account that those were'nt touched for a couple of months?
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.05.15 20:35:00 -
[214]
Quote:
With the amount of Caldari mission runners, what will prevent Hi-Sec from becoming a Caldari dominated sone, and FW to become Caldari blobfests?
That would only happen if Caldari Mission runners were all actually active and skilled PvP'ers in which case...they aren't actually caldari mission runners, are they?
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Xofii
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.05.15 20:45:00 -
[215]
You have locked out basically all ppl that are engaged in pvp atm, IE alliance bound, you have created great detriments for ppl who are pure highsec dwellers, IE no more highsec travel, and basically no rewards except the same as for all pvp or mish?
Who are you trying to attract?
//Xofii
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:22:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Xofii
You have locked out basically all ppl that are engaged in pvp atm, IE alliance bound, you have created great detriments for ppl who are pure highsec dwellers, IE no more highsec travel, and basically no rewards except the same as for all pvp or mish?
Who are you trying to attract?
//Xofii
Small corps that cant/dont want to compete in .0 but still want to get into PVP on a more balanced playing field.
C.
A new look at Local - IDEA |
Tra Ding'ho
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:30:00 -
[217]
This would have been way more cool if...:
1) You can't bring anything larger than a cruiser because <insert sci-fi explanation here, such as "Ironically, this newly discovered region can only be accessed with gates from an older technology that will not accomodate larger ships").
2) The whole area is, essentially, dead space which means nano is out and, in conjunction with the above, no BS or BC. At that point, use dead-space like reasoning to exclude capitals because, for example, gamma-flim-flam rays prevent the successful deployment of a cynosural field.
3) deploy NPC pirates who use stealth bombers if gate camps get too big
Now you have what amounts to a really fun playground that isn't a WoW **ssy battle ground, that doesn't cater to the elite with cap ships or snake implants or 120+ million isk in rigs for their HAC, or BS to beat on cruisers from sniper range or BC with their ridiculous tanks. This sounds like a really addictive place to play with the fun ships of EVE.
As it stands, with open access, it's really just another low sec place with crap ore, an excess of pirates, and NPC opportunities that don't really make up for the risks and no amount of story line or window dressing is going to change the facts about the mechanics of the game. If we're just going to have another blob place, let's blob in cruisers and frigates.
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Manu Hermanus
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:37:00 -
[218]
you guys should stop being such pussies and put your ship into some danger for ******* once. wah wah i want pve!!! I am not saying take stupid losses, you will just get frustrated and ****ed off if you do that.
also there is nothing to stop you from choosing on if you want to engage or not. wah wha pirates can just jump on you, okay so use the same damn tactic and jump on the opposing faction/pirates.
also i would hope that some targets have much less hp than a pos and can actually be taken out by a smaller group in a non capship area, like a deadspace only i would hope you could use a mwd. and maybe a few targets that do require capships for a timely take down.
my last question is will faction npcs attack players aligned with opposing factions, and will we see changes to faction police... aka not super webs, points, and ecm...
-Chainsaw Plankton
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Nuyan Zahedi
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:39:00 -
[219]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
As to other issues, as I have said repeatedly these issues will be discussed in a future blog and the comments thread connected to it. We already have plans for how we are going to discuss these issues with the community but it's premature to go into further details at this point. Again, just to emphasise this point, please WAIT UNTIL THE RELEVANT BLOG BEFORE GETTING WORKED UP. If you're not still not happy after we've published the blog and discussed the issues, then by all means make that clear in as constructive a manner as possible.
I can't say the answers provided in the Live Dev Blog satisfied me very much, but I'll wait with ranting until the relevant dev blog is out.
--
My blog
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.15 21:49:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Pottsey on 15/05/2008 21:52:58
ôand potsey why do you want this pve content, your on that mission and why not be ambushed by caldari players. far more dynamic than a bunch of kin/therm 1 launcher 1 gun npcs... and far more exciting.
that and wait... people actually just jump into lowsec in battleships?ö
I see one of two things happening either the players warp and you massively out number them and win easy. Or they warp in with large numbers and massively beat you. I find 95% of PvP is like that and to me thats boring and pointless. ItÆs not more exciting.
ôwouldnt you feel its rather stupid if you as a gallente rp'er could go blow up stuff in caldari space without those taking part of FW beeing able to protect caldari assets?ö
No I would not feel stupid as there would be a Caldari navy there. I am not saying PvE should go get the full FW without any risk, full rewards and everything the PvP FW people get. I would be quite happy if the PvE part didnÆt have anything or much to do with taking sectors for example. I am just saying some people donÆt want to PvP but want to do FW so a PvE version could be good. There are lots of PvE things you can do that dont work in PvP. There is more then enough room in eve for FW for both PvP and PvE players, whyt focus on one when you can make both groups happy?
A lot of us play Eve for the PvE part and have no interest in PvP. I find PvP boring and unexciting, I dont want to do it. But I do want to take part in FW. The last MMORPG space game I played had great FW and PvE content. I see no reason why Eve cannot go down the same path. In fact it seems like the smart thing to do as it would interest more people.
____
ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
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ArmyOfMe
hirr
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.05.15 22:06:00 -
[221]
Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 15/05/2008 22:09:49
Originally by: Pottsey
No I would not feel stupid as there would be a Caldari navy there. I am not saying PvE should go get the full FW without any risk, full rewards and everything the PvP FW people get.
Im sorry, but even you must understand the logic behind the fact that if a asset of the caldari navy is under attack, that both npc's and players belonging to caldari will try and save it.
It would feel moronic if i as a caldari solider wouldnt be able to help defend the assets of my faction
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Titan Pilot
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Posted - 2008.05.15 23:24:00 -
[222]
Prediction: Low sec camped by reds who could care less. Carebear tries to join in on a little FW, goes to low sec, dies from pirates, goes back to Empire runs missions, mines.
Faction warfare implemented in this fashion is dead already. Sorry to say, but blobs are the problem with EVE. Visit any low sec or 0.0 chokepoint and see what I mean. Heck I know some of your staff are in those camps...
How about you just make low sec a bit better and call it a day?
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.15 23:38:00 -
[223]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 15/05/2008 22:09:49
Originally by: Pottsey
No I would not feel stupid as there would be a Caldari navy there. I am not saying PvE should go get the full FW without any risk, full rewards and everything the PvP FW people get.
Im sorry, but even you must understand the logic behind the fact that if a asset of the caldari navy is under attack, that both npc's and players belonging to caldari will try and save it.
It would feel moronic if i as a caldari solider wouldnt be able to help defend the assets of my faction
I don't know what Pottsey idea is, but for me I am willing to fight FW players beside and in addition of PvE enemies, but I don't want a PvP only play.
If it is PvP only (don't seem so from the blog) it has little appeal for me.
PvP only essentially mean "see enemy, shoot enemy, win/lose", no strategic targets, so storyline behind what you are doing. At that point it can be done in low sec already. It is called piracy and counter piracy.
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Ava Santiago
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.05.16 00:21:00 -
[224]
Nothing so far has sold me on FW.
My estimated loss for getting pod killed in any kind of PvP encounter is about 100 million isk. Assuming I have a 50% chance of that happening in any PvP encounter, I need to earn over 50 million isk to make that encounter break even. Assuming I am not projecting a return that exceeds that number, I will not put myself in a position where I feel that that encounter is likely to happen.
The only way to reduce this cost is through jump clones and better insurance. Increasing availability of both of those for FW players will assist you in lower the cost for those players and increasing player participation.
Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts. |
Masu'di
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.05.16 00:41:00 -
[225]
Quick question, if I say fight for the Gallente or Minmatar, and get standings rewards for success. Will I then get negative standings hit, with all the factions that don't like them, or just the ones they at war with?
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.05.16 00:58:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Masu'di
Quick question, if I say fight for the Gallente or Minmatar, and get standings rewards for success. Will I then get negative standings hit, with all the factions that don't like them, or just the ones they at war with?
dunno how itll work for pvp relationship.
The missions though will be against the enemy npc corp. Which does indeed hurt your standing significantly. Just like as if you were to run Enemies Abound or In the Midst of Deadspace
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Superfuzz Bigmuff
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:08:00 -
[227]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
The second is that we're not convinced that "more space" is an answer to anything. Hisec as a whole is not, as far as I'm aware, actually crowded right now - yes there are hot spots, but on the flipside, WHO HERE LIVES IN KADOR? Anyone?
WTF? I love Kador!
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Jason Edwards
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:10:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Ava Santiago
Nothing so far has sold me on FW.
My estimated loss for getting pod killed in any kind of PvP encounter is about 100 million isk. Assuming I have a 50% chance of that happening in any PvP encounter, I need to earn over 50 million isk to make that encounter break even. Assuming I am not projecting a return that exceeds that number, I will not put myself in a position where I feel that that encounter is likely to happen.
The only way to reduce this cost is through jump clones and better insurance. Increasing availability of both of those for FW players will assist you in lower the cost for those players and increasing player participation.
pvp is that risk obviously.
Typically what most do is make a pvp jumpclone. Instead of a rack of full slaves and 5-7% skill boosters. Use what you can afford to loose. +3 cheapo implants and 3% skill boosters is my zone roughly. 25mil or so if you get podded. Acceptable loss.
The other factor is that it is low sec. Most lock times for pods is 5+ seconds. Which is plenty of time to align and warp off when there's no bubble.
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Daan Sai
HAZCON Inc
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Posted - 2008.05.16 01:28:00 -
[229]
Sounds great, nice to have a whole new region moving in next door too. Looking forward to the SiSi test for an early taste. I hope the RP empire alliance issues are sorted out nicely and quickly too.
How are you going to address gate camping choke points into lowsec - A big disincentive to those new to PvP from even trying to get into the FW areas in the first place. Concord strength gate sentries on the new gates?
I'd use lowsec much more if the jump into the 1st system wasn't such a PITA!
Hope this hasn't delayed the final roll out of trinity graphics, after phase 1, ships stations and gates, now we want the rest to catch up.
Can the latest live devblog be officially transcribed for the benefit of the wider player base as well, please?
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OSGOD
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Posted - 2008.05.16 02:17:00 -
[230]
well that explains nothing at all,example do i have to involve myself or do i have the chioce to ignore factional warfare i do not want to PvP everytime i undock ,i enjoy this game simply becuase i have chioce are you taking that choice away from me
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Manu Hermanus
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.05.16 02:31:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Pottsey
Edited by: Pottsey on 15/05/2008 21:52:58
ôand potsey why do you want this pve content, your on that mission and why not be ambushed by caldari players. far more dynamic than a bunch of kin/therm 1 launcher 1 gun npcs... and far more exciting.
that and wait... people actually just jump into lowsec in battleships?ö
I see one of two things happening either the players warp and you massively out number them and win easy. Or they warp in with large numbers and massively beat you. I find 95% of PvP is like that and to me thats boring and pointless. ItÆs not more exciting.
ôwouldnt you feel its rather stupid if you as a gallente rp'er could go blow up stuff in caldari space without those taking part of FW beeing able to protect caldari assets?ö
No I would not feel stupid as there would be a Caldari navy there. I am not saying PvE should go get the full FW without any risk, full rewards and everything the PvP FW people get. I would be quite happy if the PvE part didnÆt have anything or much to do with taking sectors for example. I am just saying some people donÆt want to PvP but want to do FW so a PvE version could be good. There are lots of PvE things you can do that dont work in PvP. There is more then enough room in eve for FW for both PvP and PvE players, whyt focus on one when you can make both groups happy?
A lot of us play Eve for the PvE part and have no interest in PvP. I find PvP boring and unexciting, I dont want to do it. But I do want to take part in FW. The last MMORPG space game I played had great FW and PvE content. I see no reason why Eve cannot go down the same path. In fact it seems like the smart thing to do as it would interest more people.
mmm blobbing... all i can say is a scout can be a wonderful thing, and blobbing in my experience has usually meant 5 hostile pilots. Oh and the uber rare MM 20man squad.
and fantastic pve and and warfare... please do explain this further than I don't want my **** to get blown up, as saying that will just attract more flames.
and to you implant ******* I fly around lowsec with a +5 set on this character, and chainsaw is in 0.0 with a +4 set and some hardwire implants as well. its really not that scary.
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Victor Forge
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.05.16 03:05:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Garr Anders
Originally by: Shanelle Vinci
With the amount of Caldari mission runners, what will prevent Hi-Sec from becoming a Caldari dominated sone, and FW to become Caldari blobfests? This is not an anti-caldari rant, just an honest question. (2 of my 3 chars is Caldari)
Who says you have to support the empire of your race?
Nothing, but either way there will be a faction that will be bigger than the others. And it could very well be Minmatar "aww lets help those poor ex-slaves".
But the point is that in any mmorpg with pvp it is rewarding to join the biggest side. Hoping that it will adjust itself because players will join the smaller side because they feel sorry for that side will not happen.
Look at Dark Age of Camelot for example, Midgard was the biggest realm from start and it stayed the biggest. In WoW in old PvE realms Alliance outnumbered Horde 2-3 to 1 and dominated world pvp completly by invading Horde towns and killing NPCs and it didn¦t even out at all until Blizzard added a pretty race to Horde.
The knowledge that side A is outnumbered will not cause people to roll / chose side A to even it out. If they chose side B it means that they have the numbers on their side and will have much less to worry about.
In EvE this could mean that 0.0 Alliances pick sides first, with the casual pvpers waiting and then join the biggest side, since that means they can do pvp but too less risk than joing a smaller fraction. Creating a snowball-effect.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwaMHJzruDU&feature=related |
Swift Voyager
BLL Wise Guys
Shadows Incursion
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Posted - 2008.05.16 03:14:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Swift Voyager on 16/05/2008 03:15:14
Originally by: Manu Hermanus
and to you implant ______ I fly around lowsec with a +5 set on this character, and chainsaw is in 0.0 with a +4 set and some hardwire implants as well. its really not that scary.
Amen to that. Most people in Eve are far to scared of losing things. The solution is simple: Get a jump clone with no implants or only use what you can afford to lose. Getting blown up and podded is the most exciting thing that can happen in Eve, especially when you are flying something really expensive. Keep in mind that you're flying a play spaceship that you bought with play money, for the purpose of playing a game where you shoot things and get shot at with play guns. :) Most people in Eve haven't really tasted PvP except for the high-sec ganking where they have no chance to win and didn't want the fight in the first place. On the other hand, once the average person gets a taste of PvP in Eve they never ever want to go back to carebearing in empire again (except to earn more isk so they can pvp some more)
Question for the Dev's: Will there be any aspect of the FW design that makes it easier for people to form pick-up groups? I realize you're going to give more specifics later about joining and the specifics, I just want to know if this is part of the design or not.
P.S. Thanks for all the great feedback. There's been lots of blog and conference discussions lately about how hard it is to interact with the players (Raph Koster's blog, GDC seminar about community, EA's reasons for not having a Warhammer forum, etc...). You know we love you guys. /group_hug
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You can monkey-proof your software but you can't monkey-proof the monkeys. |
Kil'Roy
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.05.16 03:20:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Salacir Khan
(Stuff)
...Might be too early to judge...
(Stuff)
I think you might be on to something here.
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Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
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Posted - 2008.05.16 03:23:00 -
[235]
 you have no idea how much pain I am due to my ISP failing and giving me constant disco's... anyway a few questions.
1. maybe stealing from combat blog: Are their gonna be friendly and hostile npc's in one area that you are fighting in... if so can I bring my logistics out to these area's and be rep my minmatar npc allies? (if I can pls make sure they don't shoot me when I repair them.... I get shot enough by my allies while trying to repair >.>)
1b. Are we gonna see some npc on npc action (I know it sounds dirty)... I remember warping in to see <insert pirate group here> and <also here> fighting each other in the worlds collide mission. From what I could tell they where engaged in a epic staring contest (I think angels where winning) at 200km. If there is gonna be npc vs npc can you improve that slightly.
2. Can i jump quickly in and out of factional warfare? do some mining do some FW go back to mining (and not get ganked by amarr FW). Also up till now i have been working caldari and minmatar... is this the end of me working both sides? also <insert standard whine for caldari/minmatar faction ships>. Though my caldari relationship might be about to take a hit, will doing missions for minni's boost my gallente relationship? will i even encounter some missions to help them/they help me?
3. I'm assuming theres gonna be a load of new missions as well as deadspace places for FW.... mind giving us any spoilers on what we might do in some of these missions? eg. We lead a minmatar raid against a amarr slave facility and bring back the soon to be free slaves OR we lead a caldari raid against a gallente strip club and bring back the captured exotic dancers... yes all of them.
3b. Will there be any new npc's? also will we get a bounty for killing amarr npcs if we are working for minmatar.
4. IF it was me making FW i'd make the rewards increase the more your side is losing (overall, winning single battles is still far more profitable). The reason for this is to stop one side (say as a random example, caldari) from completely and uterly dominating their oponent and controlling all low sec with so many numbers that it's not worth trying to face them cause you'll get jumped by a hundred of them the moment you show your head.
5. what mechanisms did you put in to stop large blobs from swarming everywhere?
thx for all the dev responses in this thread
Typhado
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.05.16 05:44:00 -
[236]
Since there's going to be more potential targets doing things inside of FW systems, I'm hoping you guys (CCP) take this opportunity to experiment with disincentivizing gatecamping in those areas, particularly by those who are FW-neutral. I've got nothing against campers, they're just playing the game they're given, but it's a lackluster form of PvP that drives a ton of people away from losec and EVE itself, before they can see all the interesting possibilities this game offers. And honestly, I believe some of the people it drives away are campers.
I also think discouraging gate camps in these areas will be a positive feedback loop. Fewer campers, fewer people getting ganked on their way to FW areas, more FW participation, more opportunities for piracy away from gates. People hate getting ganked no matter what, but as a generalization they seem to hate it most when it has any hint of what in other games would be considered spawn camping.
Anyway, whether it works or not, this seems like a good opportunity to play around with some longstanding gameplay mechanics.
* * *
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Skyslider
Gallente
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.05.16 06:13:00 -
[237]
Err, so if you can sign up individually and as a corp, what happens when your corp signs up for a different faction than you sign up for? Are you effectively in both, or does the corp choice overwrite your personal choice?
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2008.05.16 06:33:00 -
[238]
Originally by ArmyOfMe
ôIm sorry, but even you must understand the logic behind the fact that if a asset of the caldari navy is under attack, that both npc's and players belonging to caldari will try and save it.
It would feel moronic if i as a caldari solider wouldnt be able to help defend the assets of my factionö
It would be moronic as a freelance pod pilot that you have access to defend all assets belonging to the Caldari. YouÆre a freelance pod pilot working for the Caldari as a merc, not a part of the Caldari military. You work for the highest/preferred bidder. The Caldari military are not going to give you free access to all there baseÆs even if you work for them. Just like in real life you donÆt work for the UK military as a merc then get granted free access to all there baseÆs.
____
ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Rugs
Amarr
Yakuza Corp
THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2008.05.16 08:19:00 -
[239]
This question was asked in the thread before but couldn't find an answer for it.
How are you going to balance the factions and the amount of players joining them, if there isn't a system for that, people will just start joining the winning faction?
Also will you only be able to attack the opposing faction or the allies as well, from my little knowledge of the RP aspect of the game it would be Amarr/Caldari vs Gallente/Minmatar?
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Techkraft
Amarr
Chickens with an Attitude
No Law
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Posted - 2008.05.16 09:26:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Techkraft on 16/05/2008 09:31:27
- How long would it take to change from faction?
- How long does it take before your faction gets active when applying? Mercing :).
- The combat zones are they deadspace or do MWD's still work?
- And the rewards, tags were mentioned. Does the same random cargo/mods 50%+ get destroyed rule apply and do the same salvage rules apply?
- Will there be bounty like rewards for killing someone at the other faction?
- A let's say -10 friendly pvpTr in a faction will he get turrets when attacking an opposing faction?
- Will you get sec.increase for the killing of other factions?
- What happens if you kill someone of your own faction? Is there a difference for high and lowsec?
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