Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 21 post(s) |
|
CCP Wrangler
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 07:54:00 -
[1]
Greyscale is not just writing a blog, he's promising us a series of blogs, and they'll all be about our next expansion, Empyrean Age! He begins with an overview of the expansion, writing about the main feature which is Factional Warfare. The Empyrean Age and all that û An overview is a Dev Blog no serious EVE capsuleer can afford to miss.
Wrangler Community Manager CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang
"It's not worth doing something unless you are doing something that someone, somewhere, would much rather you weren't doing." |
|
Ironhelix Sr
Tri-Helix Industries
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 08:03:00 -
[2]
Woohoo!!!!
I think that sums up my feelings quite well.
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 08:06:00 -
[3]
yaay thought we'd have to wait live dev blog for summarization. :)
|
Helison
Gallente Times of Ancar Pure.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 08:16:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Helison on 14/05/2008 08:16:04 Black Rise. Nice region. Let¦s take it.
Thanks for this Blog, even if it is a bit late and if most really interesting questions are still open, but you have to answer something in the LiveDevBlog.
|
|
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 08:16:00 -
[5]
New regions are nice and such, question is how will factional warfare impact lag etc? Better worse, more nodes?
Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar? |
|
ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 08:29:00 -
[6]
sweet. i cant wait to test this
|
Kerosene
Caldari Fun Inc Black-Out
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 08:30:00 -
[7]
How easy was adding the new mini-region? Has this opened up the possibility of significantly expanding eve to cater for the new player base? __ Eve. Eve eve eve eve. EVE. Eve. Eve eve eve eve eve eve EVE eve eve. - Kerosene
The way to stop isk farmers is to STOP BUYING ISK.
|
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 08:37:00 -
[8]
Words can describe how ****ing excited I am!
|
Verone
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 08:46:00 -
[9]
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
|
CCP Lingorm
C C P
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 08:51:00 -
[10]
Factional warfare is not just in Low-sec. It is just concentrated there.
If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere. it is that in low-sec we have marked out control points which will bring the combat to them making it easier for you to find and take part in.
You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
|
|
|
Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 08:59:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 14/05/2008 08:59:41 Hot stuff.
I have a question, though - from your design specifications, how feasible will it be for a solo player to do anything there? I am a part of a 0.0 sov holding alliance, and as such, will not be able to experience factional warfare in a group (we've got more important things to do than mess up our NPC standings on a large scale, really ).
But assuming that I, as a single player, want to at least take a look at the new content, just to see it for the sake of seeing it? I know that I can sign up solo for a faction, but:
- What are the options apart from just grabbing a cruiser, fitting MWD, scram and web and prowling the area in hopes of finding someone from the opposing faction in a weaker ship? - Can the missions you speak of be done solo, or do they have a group focus? - Can I just fly up to an open warfare objective and join an impromptu gang if there's one, or are they instanced/deadspaced? - Are there open warfare objectives that can be achieved solo, assuming your ship is powerful enough and no enemy gang comes to disturb you?
And most importantly:
- If you are signed up for faction X and aggress at a gate, will the lowsec gate guns of faction X shoot you or not?
|
Sir JoJo
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 09:01:00 -
[12]
PVP instance is bad for eve Mkay!!
u might not directly say it but its easy to figure from what u say that basiclly thats some of the **** thats comming in,
pvp instance will drain 0.0 from even more of the smal scale combat going on there, all theres left now is Blobs
|
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 09:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere.
Really? That's hot!
So attacking an enemy faction in low-sec will not cause sentry aggro either, correct?
Can one sign up with pirate factions, or even for nobody, and be hostile to everybody?
|
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Noob Much Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 09:11:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 14/05/2008 09:13:38 I like the idea of factional warfare, and especially ranks and maybe other achievments, medals, ribbons the like.
However ... I predict that factional warfare will be an epic fail at getting significantly more ppl into low sec or 0.0 unless done properly.
Why is that?
Because lets face it: Lots of people among e.g. my friends who play Eve virtually require the safety of Empire. They mine or produce stuff all day and run missions, and numbers suggest high sec dwellers are by far the largest part of the population.
You can swing the carrot of conquerable low sec systems or whatnot all day long, the basic thing remains: Some people just can't stand the thought of loosing expensive ships. Who seriously expects someone who barely has 200M on his account, which he mined or got from level 3 missions over, say, 3 months, to burn a HAC in low sec combat? And IIRC most people are in that cash range, NOT in the multi billion ISK range that a few lucky ones enjoy.
Those few people who are lucky enough to make enough cash to burn a few significant ships a week in combat are already living in 0.0 anyway.
So the best way to get people involved in low sec factional warfare, IMHO, is to revise insurance so that ships including T2 AND modules are insurable for, say, 80% of the worth. That will reduce the time people need to grind for a new ship and modules to 20% - equally for all players.
That, or have the faction agents provide free frigs, dessies and cruisers to the combatants.
Thats just my $0.02. --
|
Nuyan Zahedi
Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 09:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Factional warfare is not just in Low-sec. It is just concentrated there.
If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere. it is that in low-sec we have marked out control points which will bring the combat to them making it easier for you to find and take part in.
You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
Now that's exactly where I was hoping for. Whatever the mission and structure stuff will be, no matter how crappy, FW is an awesome addition to the game already because of this. -- My blog
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 09:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Factional warfare is not just in Low-sec. It is just concentrated there.
If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere. it is that in low-sec we have marked out control points which will bring the combat to them making it easier for you to find and take part in.
You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
Very cool. From the wording and implication of the usage of words in what was said, suggests that it was low sec only.
So the war essentially becomes everywhere? I don't know if you recall the privateers way back when waging war against like 100 corps/alliances was plausible. Will it essentially be like that? As I'd expect hundreds if not thousands online at the time will join if this is the case.
I just think the low sec part may be much more unlikely. You may get some concentration there but it would be everywhere.
I would like some more clarification on the implication of:
Quote: And what do points mean? Systems! As your faction racks up points in hostile systems, control will slowly swing into your favor, until eventually you're given the opportunity to occupy the system outright. Of course, the enemy's trying to do the same to your systems, so a good defense as well as well as a strong offense will be needed if you want your adopted faction to prevail and dominate!
Will it be true sovereignty then? I can't see why that wouldnt be so? Such that cynojammers being allowed to be put up and the holder's right to hold the system through cap ships could be very cool.
I'm also wondering. Since you can individually join up. Could there even be systems which become occupied by 1 character?
One final question :)
Gallente and Caldari only have been discussed here and in the storyline news recently it has only been caldari and gallente. With the lone minmatar story. Is Caldari and Gallente only going to be the ones at war? lets say us Amarr-loyals :) want to join. Is amarr just going to be allied with caldari but we really fight for caldari?
|
ArchenTheGreat
Caldari D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 09:20:00 -
[17]
Edited by: ArchenTheGreat on 14/05/2008 09:22:43
Originally by: CCP Lingorm If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere. it is that in low-sec we have marked out control points which will bring the combat to them making it easier for you to find and take part in.
I predict Caldari-oriented pilots camping entries to those low sec regions. Basicly: welcome camps and blobs.
How exactly do you want to avoid blobing control points and camps on choke points to them?
Oh, and Jita 4-4 will be heavenly place to camp for Faction Warfare pilots.
Mark my words: there is no place for small scale warfare in EVE anymore, unless you significantly change game mechanics.
|
Bartholomeus Crane
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 09:23:00 -
[18]
OK, this sounds interesting. But with small gang warfare on tap through Factional Warfare, who'll need to go to 0.0? Could you explain to me how this isn't the death of small gang warfare in alliance warfare? -- Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? |
Gal'tashec
Gallente Raptus Regaliter Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 09:28:00 -
[19]
So are you talking about consentual pvp battlegrounds here? *shudder* The blog describes it all very arcady.. still keeping my hopes up for this and I'll be following the upcoming blogs that hatch out the concept --- CEO of Raptus Regaliter Always in the lookout for good pilots |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 09:29:00 -
[20]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere.
...
You can sign up as an individual or you can sign your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
Will it be possible to retire from a faction if you are tired of the fighting and want to do other stuff instead?
Or is signing up a decision which cannot be taken back ever?
And if it is possible to retire, are there plans to prevent "faction hopping" - players/corps switching forth and back between the different factions every so often. For example, do you need some high standings first to be able to join a faction and doing so drops the standings of the opposing faction(s) big time?
|
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 09:33:00 -
[21]
Quote: Really? That's hot!ShockedCool So attacking an enemy faction in low-sec will not cause sentry aggro either, correct? Can one sign up with pirate factions, or even for nobody, and be hostile to everybody?
Well it's factional WARfare. The targets would be war targets then. Blinking default orange most likely. So yes you would be able to fight them without turrets or concord. My issue was that I thought it was going to be moreso low-sec free-for-all where the region is contested and there are no turrets even placed yet sort of deal.
Quote: You can swing the carrot of conquerable low sec systems or whatnot all day long, the basic thing remains: Some people just can't stand the thought of loosing expensive ships. Who seriously expects someone who barely has 200M on his account, which he mined or got from level 3 missions over, say, 3 months, to burn a HAC in low sec combat? And IIRC most people are in that cash range, NOT in the multi billion ISK range that a few lucky ones enjoy.
the hell... I've made 300mil in the last like 5 days doing lvl4s and other assorted things. All high-sec carebear type things. The market is very weak in my area and easily manipulated :) I seriously sell omber for 3-4x the value and it goes like hotcakes in amarr space :)
The reality though is that if you cant afford to loose the ship. You dont fly the ship. I remember back in the old days of nanodomis and nanophoons, effective nos, and myrmidons that tanked like 2000omni passively :) Before I got the skills appropriate for one of the myrmidons. I couldn't afford much. So I literally flew a Tristan with a warp jammer and mwd. I loose it... I can go kill 3 rats in low sec and afford to buy another. I was also effective in tackling people.
Quote: So the best way to get people involved in low sec factional warfare, IMHO, is to revise insurance so that ships including T2 AND modules are insurable for, say, 80% of the worth. That will reduce the time people need to grind for a new ship and modules to 20% - equally for all players.
The real problem with low sec is that pirates will get over there and not be associated with anyone so they can fire at all of the above. Which low sec is a ghost town recently. They know people will be going out there with fancy t2 stuff and such. So pirates will kill both sides before they can kill the others.
|
El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar KULT Production Atrum Tempestas Foedus
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:04:00 -
[22]
Edited by: El''essar Viocragh on 14/05/2008 10:08:14 Edited by: El''essar Viocragh on 14/05/2008 10:06:49
Originally by: Jason Edwards The real problem with low sec is that pirates will get over there and not be associated with anyone so they can fire at all of the above. Which low sec is a ghost town recently. They know people will be going out there with fancy t2 stuff and such. So pirates will kill both sides before they can kill the others.
Ok, let's say you are into the storyline stuff of Eve and want to get some amarrian lowsec systems for the minmatar empire.
First, you send in a couple of pvp'ers to clean it, then you send in the missionrunners to achieve mission stuff and conquer strategic points and stuff so sov changes. And now you try to defend that space.
Exactly at which point of either the cleansing or the defending part do you care if your enemy is a pirate or an amarrian?
I hope the sentries support local forces and stations deny hostile docking. With shootable station services and sentries of course. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:08:00 -
[23]
The plan is for the next blog to cover signup, ranks and related systems, and the one after to cover combat in its many forms. I'm going to skip questions on those issues for now - if the appropriate blog doesn't answer your question, re-ask it in the appropriate thread I'm aiming to get the structure of the entire design down in blogs, so just keep reading!
Originally by: Kerosene How easy was adding the new mini-region? Has this opened up the possibility of significantly expanding eve to cater for the new player base?
Not as straightforward as we'd initially thought, to be honest There's a lot of little things that need to be done plus some heavy lifting by Prism X. It's something we now know how to do, but equally it's not something that we're keen to repeat in the near future, for two reasons. The first is that it's not straightforward to do.
The second is that we're not convinced that "more space" is an answer to anything. Hisec as a whole is not, as far as I'm aware, actually crowded right now - yes there are hot spots, but on the flipside, who here lives in Kador? Anyone? Similiarly in 0.0, on the one hand the good bits seem crowded, but on the other hand last time I was out there there were huge swathes of systems that were left unused due to being a bit rubbish, and also each system can sustainably support a very small number of people. Making better use of existing space may make more sense than simply adding more lightly-used systems.
Originally by: Chribba how will factional warfare impact lag etc? Better worse, more nodes?
This is one of the things we're hoping to quantify on Saturday, so please encourage everyone you know to show up (ok, in your particular case, maybe not everybody you know, if thirty thousand people show up SiSi may have issues)
Originally by: Ishina Fel But assuming that I, as a single player, want to at least take a look at the new content, just to see it for the sake of seeing it? I know that I can sign up solo for a faction, but:
This is something that should become clearer over the next few blogs, but for now let me just say that while there's no functional limitations on what you can do solo, you may want to try and find some ad-hoc FW-buddies to give you a bit of leverage Oh, and sentry guns only fire on criminals.
Originally by: Sir JoJo PVP instance is bad for eve Mkay!!
/signed. We don't like, want or use instancing*
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Some people just can't stand the thought of loosing expensive ships.
This is something we're fully aware of and we hope we've found something approaching a solution. Wait for the combat blog to explain more
*Technically and strictly speaking, all missions and complexes and exploration sites are instanced, but we have no plans of sealing them off to other players in the way other games tend to
|
|
Hugh Ruka
Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Factional warfare is not just in Low-sec. It is just concentrated there.
If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere. it is that in low-sec we have marked out control points which will bring the combat to them making it easier for you to find and take part in.
You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
Bolded part: does it mean I can also attack the opposing faction anywhere ? I mean let's take a stealth bomber to a newbie zone of the opposing empire and smoke some folks ... or camp Jita just for the fun of it ??? --- SIG --- Goumindong for CSM. |
Nofonno
Amarr Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:20:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Nofonno on 14/05/2008 10:22:39 Edited by: Nofonno on 14/05/2008 10:22:23 So far, so good. I'm really anxious to see the other blogs, too and I will be on SiSi to see how it works before I flame or praise anyone
EDIT: After re-reading, I saw first that FW is PvP oriented, but then I saw word "missions" -- so there will be PvE elements to the FW as well?
A scientist must be an optimist at heart - to have the strength to rally against a chorus of voices saying "it cannot be done". |
Garr Anders
Minmatar Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale The plan is for the next blog to cover signup, ranks and related systems, and the one after to cover combat in its many forms. I'm going to skip questions on those issues for now - if the appropriate blog doesn't answer your question, re-ask it in the appropriate thread I'm aiming to get the structure of the entire design down in blogs, so just keep reading! ....
Please, please, please publish these other blogs before the Live Blog so we can condense the questions on the Live Blog a bit . ----- Garr Anders
"The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
|
|
CCP Lingorm
C C P
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:37:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka Bolded part: does it mean I can also attack the opposing faction anywhere ? I mean let's take a stealth bomber to a newbie zone of the opposing empire and smoke some folks ... or camp Jita just for the fun of it ???
You can not go killing noobs with impunity by signing up. You can go killing anyone signed up to an opposed faction.
Greyscale will post more details later. Not going to steal his thunder.
CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
|
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:41:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Factional warfare is not just in Low-sec. It is just concentrated there.
If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere. it is that in low-sec we have marked out control points which will bring the combat to them making it easier for you to find and take part in.
You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
Bolded part: does it mean I can also attack the opposing faction anywhere ? I mean let's take a stealth bomber to a newbie zone of the opposing empire and smoke some folks ... or camp Jita just for the fun of it ???
Mmmm stealth bomber in newbie zone. My nemesis is getting so eager.
No you need to remember that this will be opt-in. Virtually all people call for that clearly. CCP would be mad to do otherwise. So newbies wouldn't be opting in.. meaning they wont be targets.
Though camping jita certainly will be happening.
Though honestly I think the reality will be far more comparable to say the privateers way back. There was enough corps in the privateers that they were almost everywhere or at least you'd very well expect them around. They camped jita like mad. They also put up big camps in other systems. Like kaputenen or however you spell it.
While still holding decent sized camps in oursulaert and such.
The interesting thing however is that the groups the privateers were fighting weren't together and such. This factional warfare will apparently be like that... but it will be faction vs faction with intel channels. So perhaps it will be balanced.
|
Larissa Newport
Tempered Steel Legion
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:42:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Larissa Newport on 14/05/2008 10:43:14
Hmm, so if my Pirate main will pledge allegiance to the Minmatar Republic, will he get a complete Letter of Marque against the enemies of the Republic and be able to enter all the Republic's space to hunt the enemies down? Or will the Republic Navy still try to fend me off in High Sec space, because of my security status with concord?
LN
Larissa Newport CEO, Newport Excavations
-- Newport Excavations trusted bankers are EBANK , the Universal Bank that is within everyone's reach -- |
Moncada
Amarr The Unbeholden
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:44:00 -
[30]
Battlegrounds for eve.. Wow..
Montada Cardinal Maledictus Sanguine
|
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:45:00 -
[31]
Considering that. I must say small pvp combat will likely be quite effective. Back in the privateers days they only ever had 5-10 people gangs ever. I remember going around in t1 frigate gangs with 15-20 people and we killed quite a few people.
Blobbing really wouldn't be an option because the blob would literally need to fly around the entirety of empire to really be effective. Breaking up gangs and only bringing larger numbers when intel indicates a blockade of sorts is what will happen.
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:48:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Larissa Newport Edited by: Larissa Newport on 14/05/2008 10:43:14
Hmm, so if my Pirate main will pledge allegiance to the Minmatar Republic, will he get a complete Letter of Marque against the enemies of the Republic and be able to enter all the Republic's space to hunt the enemies down? Or will the Republic Navy still try to fend me off in High Sec space, because of my security status with concord?
LN
If you think of the faction as simply you joining an alliance who is at war with another alliance.
You can go around and shoot war targets and may only go where your sec status allows.
Though an interesting point would be to lets say you're -10 with gallente and you join gallente. Will they allow you in hisec due to your allegiance.
*Though personally I am only -1 with gallente after skills :)*
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:50:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Moncada Battlegrounds for eve.. Wow..
There's a system .3 off of Nourvakakien system in Citadel-lonetrek area. Where if you go to one of the moons in the system there is no tower but rather a deadspace area which is an "ancient battleground"
Though the rats suck. :)
|
Gold Rogers
Federation Of Free Worlds Sempiternus
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:50:00 -
[34]
An Amarrian in a Gallente corp.
What happens if I join the Amarrian side and the rest of my corp join the Gallante side?
Same thing with alliances could apply. ---------
|
Khan Soriano
Beyond Divinity Inc
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 10:57:00 -
[35]
I really don't know what you guys are planning with this Factional Warfare but when I hear "small gang PVP" it makes me want to touch myself in weird places
Seriously... I just reactivated my account (6 months absence) only to hear that you're finally going through with this!! Truly a dream come true
I don't care if its instanced like missions/complexes/exploration, takes place in high-low-0.0 sec or whatever I just want a few things:
- Fight with my gang (2+ people, don't know where the cap should be) against similar sized gang who also really want to fight (not just stall till their capital fleet is able to land on us)
- Quickly get to business and not spend 3h trying to find each other (spending 1h on jumping and trying to get strategic advantage is ok)
- Don't have to worry about being blobbed to death and boredom. I mean come on, if mission runners can have their safe heaven for pew-pew with NPC why PVPers don't get the same treatment?
Its not fun to search 2h for somebody to shoot at and find nothing or a noob with PVE fitted cruiser and pound on him and its also not fun being pounded on by gangs two or three times your numbers (dont get me even started on ship superiority).
Create areas in space (sort of like complexes) that are hard to probe, create a "wormhole" near the station (1 for each gang) so that only gang members would go through (keys handed to leaders of both gangs by NPC), letting only specific ships in (we already have that) and placing gangs randomly at least 15-20km from each other in this complex and you have yourself a great sandbox for everybody to enjoy. Place them in low-sec systems so that people would actually want to fly there and hardcore pirates would also be happy with more travelers.
You wouldn't have to worry about rewards because if players would want to maximize their survivability chance they'd fit better equipment thus better reward for the winner. ----- Arbitrator - Life & Death
|
Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:00:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 14/05/2008 11:00:02 I am liking this more and more, especially the structural implications of it.
Factional Warfare may just achieve what years of mulling, discussing and ad-hoc measures have failed to: de-lagify Jita and lessen the congestion in Caldari systems (because enemies of the state get shot on sight), and on the other hand, spread the population more evenly throughout the four empires and encourage the formationan and/or strengthening of new hub systems (Amarr, Rens, Oursulaert, Hek etc.), which in turn will siphon population away from Jita (because people may realize that they can in fact get their stuff cheap AND closer at hand in another hub). All without a single nerf to Jita itself!
This is, of course, just a potential that's there. And whether it's going to work is highly dependant on the details of Factional Warfare - and it will likely require time as well. But if it is interesting an rewarding enough (and consequent enough in making participants and ex-participants want to stay out of opposing space), it may just work.
All in all though, I am so far only seeing positive implications for EVE as a whole from this, so I heartily support the initiative!
|
Larissa Newport
Tempered Steel Legion
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:04:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Originally by: Larissa Newport Edited by: Larissa Newport on 14/05/2008 10:43:14
Hmm, so if my Pirate main will pledge allegiance to the Minmatar Republic, will he get a complete Letter of Marque against the enemies of the Republic and be able to enter all the Republic's space to hunt the enemies down? Or will the Republic Navy still try to fend me off in High Sec space, because of my security status with concord?
LN
If you think of the faction as simply you joining an alliance who is at war with another alliance.
You can go around and shoot war targets and may only go where your sec status allows.
Though an interesting point would be to lets say you're -10 with gallente and you join gallente. Will they allow you in hisec due to your allegiance.
*Though personally I am only -1 with gallente after skills :)*
Yeah, that would be exactly my point. It would be pretty weird that I would get shot by the Republic Navy whilst being supportive to them. The factional stuff should mean that -10's would be able to enter the high-sec parts of the faction they support. It would be extremely weird that when hunting down some people fleeing to highsec, half the gang has to stay behind because they will get shot by "friendly NPC's"
I have no problem that any player can shoot me in high-sec, though. I'm used to be a target. Outlaw means you are a target ... anytime! Wouldn't want it any other way.
LN
Larissa Newport CEO, Newport Excavations
-- Newport Excavations trusted bankers are EBANK , the Universal Bank that is within everyone's reach -- |
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:09:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Larissa Newport
Yeah, that would be exactly my point. It would be pretty weird that I would get shot by the Republic Navy whilst being supportive to them. The factional stuff should mean that -10's would be able to enter the high-sec parts of the faction they support. It would be extremely weird that when hunting down some people fleeing to highsec, half the gang has to stay behind because they will get shot by "friendly NPC's"
I have no problem that any player can shoot me in high-sec, though. I'm used to be a target. Outlaw means you are a target ... anytime! Wouldn't want it any other way.
LN
If you think of still though. If someone is one of your biggest enemies... they just so happen to have declared support for you. Would it necessarily make you trust that horrible enemy? Let them live outside your secure space and fight for you in low sec and gain standings that way.
|
Larissa Newport
Tempered Steel Legion
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:10:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Originally by: Larissa Newport
Yeah, that would be exactly my point. It would be pretty weird that I would get shot by the Republic Navy whilst being supportive to them. The factional stuff should mean that -10's would be able to enter the high-sec parts of the faction they support. It would be extremely weird that when hunting down some people fleeing to highsec, half the gang has to stay behind because they will get shot by "friendly NPC's"
I have no problem that any player can shoot me in high-sec, though. I'm used to be a target. Outlaw means you are a target ... anytime! Wouldn't want it any other way.
LN
If you think of still though. If someone is one of your biggest enemies... they just so happen to have declared support for you. Would it necessarily make you trust that horrible enemy? Let them live outside your secure space and fight for you in low sec and gain standings that way.
I agree, thats where factionstandings come in play I guess.
LN Larissa Newport CEO, Newport Excavations
-- Newport Excavations trusted bankers are EBANK , the Universal Bank that is within everyone's reach -- |
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Noob Much Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:21:00 -
[40]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm You can go killing anyone signed up to an opposed faction.
We need a fifth main faction ... say, an Empire of Robots. Then we sign up all the macro miners with it, involountarily.
There, problem solved :) --
|
|
Franga
NQX Innovations
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:30:00 -
[41]
MOAR DEV BLO ... *cough*
Oh. Ahh, good. Carry on then. I shall read and reply.
Originally by: Rachel Vend ... with 100% reliability in most cases ...
|
Unawa
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:30:00 -
[42]
Are there still intentions to add the smaller factions to faction warfare in the future? I mean, hopefully, soon and not in a year.
|
Braaage
eXceed Inc. eXceed.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:33:00 -
[43]
Will Factional Warfare allow us to take/alter/dispute NPC sovereignty in 0.0 space? -- eve-guides.com All about POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, EVE Database + much more!! |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:37:00 -
[44]
The "dynamic systems changing hands" thing. Will that have any effect on players who are not involved in faction warfare or will the dynamic system mean dynamic NPCs/missions/etc?
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:38:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Braaage Will Factional Warfare allow us to take/alter/dispute NPC sovereignty in 0.0 space?
I doubt it, but you should be able to at least do it in lowsec.
In 0.0, I guess you just go and claim something "in the name of X", as for example CVA does. They may be sov holders, but if I understood them right, they treat the whole of their space as being part of the Amarr Empire.
|
Gawain Hill
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:43:00 -
[46]
Just so I know if everyone decides they don't like amarr and people don't fight for amarr and then amarr lose all their space. Will the amarr faction be removed from the game if they lose all their space?
|
NightmareX
Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:43:00 -
[47]
Edited by: NightmareX on 14/05/2008 11:43:45 Will the factional warfare allow us outlaws (with -5 and lower) in sec status to do anything new in empire?, or will it still be the same as always that outlaws are stuck to be in low sec?
Like me, i'm at -7.7 in sec status atm.
|
Orion Shurtak
Mission Runners United Overtime Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:46:00 -
[48]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Factional warfare is not just in Low-sec. It is just concentrated there.
If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere. it is that in low-sec we have marked out control points which will bring the combat to them making it easier for you to find and take part in.
You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
If the lag is not bad enough already in some systems! I can see a factional war going on in Jita just to make life more enoyable for all -------------------------------------------------- Mission Runners United
|
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:52:00 -
[49]
So if you're a Gallente and shoot a Caldari in Caldari empire space, will the faction police help if present? ---
Author of rTorrent, the BitTorrent client for real men and mice. |
Jana N'dori
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:54:00 -
[50]
I dont mean to sound ungrateful but that devblog was pretty darn meager. No hands on examples and no details. More like the kind of devblog one would have expected as it was starting to be developed, not when it was about to finish. To me it just sounds like ccp endorsed 'Red vs. Blue'.
Sorry for being so pessimistic
|
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:57:00 -
[51]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale The second is that we're not convinced that "more space" is an answer to anything. Hisec as a whole is not, as far as I'm aware, actually crowded right now - yes there are hot spots, but on the flipside, who here lives in Kador? Anyone? Similiarly in 0.0, on the one hand the good bits seem crowded, but on the other hand last time I was out there there were huge swathes of systems that were left unused due to being a bit rubbish, and also each system can sustainably support a very small number of people. Making better use of existing space may make more sense than simply adding more lightly-used systems.
Hisec not crowded: maybe - maybe not. CCP job should be to give reason to people in high sec to spread even in the underused zones. (dynamic quality agents maybe or other options)
Better use of 0.0 space and empty 0.0 space: 0.0 alliances have an easy time in controlling large portions of 0.0 even if they don't use it, thanks to the*****epoints. At the same time there is no incentive for them to increase population in 0.0. For example why they don't get the tax on commerce done in the players controlled outposts? If they were receiving a 1% tax on all trade I bet they would be much more willing to accept traders in 0.0 even it they aren't part of the alliance.
Sorry for the hijack.
Faction warfar from this first blog seem very good.
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 11:59:00 -
[52]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale The second is that we're not convinced that "more space" is an answer to anything. Hisec as a whole is not, as far as I'm aware, actually crowded right now - yes there are hot spots, but on the flipside, who here lives in Kador? Anyone? Similiarly in 0.0, on the one hand the good bits seem crowded, but on the other hand last time I was out there there were huge swathes of systems that were left unused due to being a bit rubbish, and also each system can sustainably support a very small number of people. Making better use of existing space may make more sense than simply adding more lightly-used systems.
Hisec not crowded: maybe - maybe not. CCP job should be to give reason to people in high sec to spread even in the underused zones. (dynamic quality agents maybe or other options)
Better use of 0.0 space and empty 0.0 space: 0.0 alliances have an easy time in controlling large portions of 0.0 even if they don't use it, thanks to the*****epoints. At the same time there is no incentive for them to increase population in 0.0. For example why they don't get the tax on commerce done in the players controlled outposts? If they were receiving a 1% tax on all trade I bet they would be much more willing to accept traders in 0.0 even it they aren't part of the alliance.
Sorry for the hijack.
Faction warfare from this first blog seem very good.
|
Mr Horizontal
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 12:07:00 -
[53]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale The second is that we're not convinced that "more space" is an answer to anything. Hisec as a whole is not, as far as I'm aware, actually crowded right now - yes there are hot spots, but on the flipside, who here lives in Kador? Anyone? Similiarly in 0.0, on the one hand the good bits seem crowded, but on the other hand last time I was out there there were huge swathes of systems that were left unused due to being a bit rubbish, and also each system can sustainably support a very small number of people. Making better use of existing space may make more sense than simply adding more lightly-used systems.
How can you say Empire isn't suffering from overcrowding?!?! There are a ton and a half of problems relating to overcrowding in EVE at the moment! At a very rough estimate I think the EVE galaxy needs to grow by about 25% more space! It's not just about how many people actually live in the space per se, it's about the distribution of resources as well as the population of the systems. Security status and resources dictates whether people actually live in the systems or not, not the actual space itself. So if you're worried about Kador being underpopulated, then boost its resources to make it more useful space.
Resource changes don't need to mean more belts and other faucets. Even a simple sec status change to 0.3 means a system will be instacamped by reactor POS's, for example. There are a huge array of dynamics that can make or break a system and by effect of this a whole region.
Either way, the Jita problem does rear its ugly head and will continue to do so because the distribution of resources and the Network Effect affecting it will not change it's dynamics. You will always get a hub of some form or another, however, even if it moves away from Jita.
Regarding the new Black Rise region in the middle of Empire was an interesting move but a weird one. I was expecting the current lowsecs like Aridia, Derelik and Kador to move into the inner 0.0 and those regions to gain high sec status. Then introduce new 0.0 regions on the outskirts to counterbalance the space that has been taken by the new lowsec regions.
Yes it's a big change, uprooting many installations in lowsec and alliances away from their homesteads in inner 0.0 but RP-wise it's a logical progression. The Empires have finished securing the lowsec space, and the new lowsec frontier has been pushed outwards, and the 0.0 wildlands even further outwards.
Thus Empire becomes bigger, the lowsec band between Empire and 0.0 remains and 0.0 just moves out, and the net effect is the galactic circle as a whole becomes bigger in radius.
Director | www.eve-bank.net |
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 12:27:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Mr Horizontal How can you say Empire isn't suffering from overcrowding?!?!
Hisec as a whole is not overcrowded - for every jam-packed system there are twenty empty ones. Ergo the problem is not the amount of hisec space, it's the resource distribution within the existing area. This means that the solution is not more hisec, it's making better use of existing hisec.
|
|
River Tem
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 12:29:00 -
[55]
I'm looking forward to the IC report on Black Rising. Perhaps it will go something like: -
'Hey, a shed load of jump gates just popped up out of the void'
- but let's hope not.
Anyway, thanks for all the hard work making my favorite alternate universe that lil bit bigger, and painting it so well with word and graphic. Praise u.
|
|
CCP Lingorm
C C P
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 12:30:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Mr Horizontal How can you say Empire isn't suffering from overcrowding?!?! There are a ton and a half of problems relating to overcrowding in EVE at the moment! At a very rough estimate I think the EVE galaxy needs to grow by about 25% more space! It's not just about how many people actually live in the space per se, it's about the distribution of resources as well as the population of the systems. Security status and resources dictates whether people actually live in the systems or not, not the actual space itself. So if you're worried about Kador being underpopulated, then boost its resources to make it more useful space.
Resource changes don't need to mean more belts and other faucets. Even a simple sec status change to 0.3 means a system will be instacamped by reactor POS's, for example. There are a huge array of dynamics that can make or break a system and by effect of this a whole region.
Either way, the Jita problem does rear its ugly head and will continue to do so because the distribution of resources and the Network Effect affecting it will not change it's dynamics. You will always get a hub of some form or another, however, even if it moves away from Jita.
Regarding the new Black Rise region in the middle of Empire was an interesting move but a weird one. I was expecting the current lowsecs like Aridia, Derelik and Kador to move into the inner 0.0 and those regions to gain high sec status. Then introduce new 0.0 regions on the outskirts to counterbalance the space that has been taken by the new lowsec regions.
Yes it's a big change, uprooting many installations in lowsec and alliances away from their homesteads in inner 0.0 but RP-wise it's a logical progression. The Empires have finished securing the lowsec space, and the new lowsec frontier has been pushed outwards, and the 0.0 wildlands even further outwards.
Thus Empire becomes bigger, the lowsec band between Empire and 0.0 remains and 0.0 just moves out, and the net effect is the galactic circle as a whole becomes bigger in radius.
Certain Systems in Empire are certainly overcrowded, but on the whole Empire itself is not heavily populated. Before we add more space we would prefer to look at options that allow alliances to make better use of their space (give incentives for claiming less space) and to spread the population of empire over more systems.
While not ruling out adding more systems later we do not see it as a short-term solution.
Some of the options that have been looked at to 'move people' are Agent Quality degrades depending on use. Adding more agents. Having agents that move. Nothing has been decided but we are still looking at the issue.
CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
|
|
Nemtar Nataal
Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 12:32:00 -
[57]
Good work, keep it comming.
What about the Drone regions? wore they always on the map just not accessible to anyone?
|
Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 12:43:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Ishina Fel on 14/05/2008 12:42:49 You know, reading the some of the posts above me, I just had a sudden thought.
You are adding an entire new lowsec zone. This zone is, so have trustworthy sources told me, made up of solar systems. These solar systems will in all likelyhood have planets and moons, as they are needed to support the belts and stations that are claimed to exist.
So in this region, there is potential for around 100-200 minable moons.
So, Greyscale: How does this affect the current moon mineral market? While PrismX was seeding these moons, did the current trends play any role in the decisions how to seed them? Or did you simply apply a "Caldari lowsec template" for the distribution?
I'm asking this because there is potential here to address a concern that will only get more pressing with time. I'm not saying that every moon should be carrying Dysprosium (), or that one region's supply can somehow counter the demand of dozens of others, but at the very least you could use this opportunity to "kill two POSes with one dread" and experiment a little with what you can do.
|
Garrick Konquero
Gallente ImmCo
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 13:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
If one's corp chooses not to participate, can a character sign up as an individual without leaving the corp?
I know at some point there was discussion that seemed to indicate individual characters wishing to participate would have to join special NPC corps.
|
Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 13:18:00 -
[60]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
As a posthumanist revolutionary who is opposed to all of the empires and wants to see them burn, why do I have to sign up for one faction? Can I not just sign up *against* a faction?
We don't want their goodwill and a pat on the back. We want their deprecated schemes of territorial control to fail. We strive to demonstrate that nothing can stand in the way of immortal free captains who are willing seize their own destiny. It would be utterly wrong for us to run to Momma Caldari or Pops Amarr for a wet handshake and a "well done, child", when they are the ones who at this stage of history should be looking up at us and see the sweet, addictive possibility of freedom.
Does that mean we're left out of factional warfare, then? ____________
|
|
Daedalus DuGalle
Gallente University of Caille
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 13:24:00 -
[61]
How easy/difficult will it be to switch sides? As it stands, something along the lines of changing from Gallente to Caldari?
Or later on, how hard will it be to switch from one of the empire to a pirate faction?
I ask as I'm more interested in working for a pirate faction, but if it's too difficult to change, then I'll have to sit the first round of faction warfare out.
- What good is money if it can't inspire terror in your fellow man? |
Stakhanov
Metafarmers
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 13:35:00 -
[62]
I approve of this addition of caldari lowsec
I want to claim the region for Serpentis too , I hope the option will be there.
Originally by: Bloody Puppy because it's a good game because it's a good game because it's a good gameeeeee ccp gonna nerf it
|
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Ghost Festival
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 13:36:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Verone
My thoughts exactly. Now I just wish that Derelik lowsec connected to Molden Heath lowsec and that Aridia didn't have two silly 0.5 systems on its lowsec pipe...
Ghost Festival is recruiting. |
Kayscha
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 13:40:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar
Originally by: CCP Lingorm You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
As a posthumanist revolutionary who is opposed to all of the empires and wants to see them burn, why do I have to sign up for one faction? Can I not just sign up *against* a faction?
We don't want their goodwill and a pat on the back. We want their deprecated schemes of territorial control to fail. We strive to demonstrate that nothing can stand in the way of immortal free captains who are willing seize their own destiny. It would be utterly wrong for us to run to Momma Caldari or Pops Amarr for a wet handshake and a "well done, child", when they are the ones who at this stage of history should be looking up at us and see the sweet, addictive possibility of freedom.
Does that mean we're left out of factional warfare, then?
Well, for you there was always the option to just shoot at those oppressive sentry guns and have a field day. ;)
Where would you want to "sign up", anyway? I assume you will be able to sign up for the pirate factions as well at some point, but that's still "for" something. You, on the other side, propose what most would agree is simply terroristic fanaticism at its most destructive. You need no sign-up for that.
|
|
CCP Ginger
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 13:52:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar
Originally by: CCP Lingorm You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
As a posthumanist revolutionary who is opposed to all of the empires and wants to see them burn, why do I have to sign up for one faction? Can I not just sign up *against* a faction?
We don't want their goodwill and a pat on the back. We want their deprecated schemes of territorial control to fail. We strive to demonstrate that nothing can stand in the way of immortal free captains who are willing seize their own destiny. It would be utterly wrong for us to run to Momma Caldari or Pops Amarr for a wet handshake and a "well done, child", when they are the ones who at this stage of history should be looking up at us and see the sweet, addictive possibility of freedom.
Does that mean we're left out of factional warfare, then?
If you choose to not want their goodwill and not sign up then im afraid that is your choice, or a consequence of your choice at this time.
However, that is not to say you cant shoot at any faction warfare players so your not left out of factional warfare but, obviously, you have to take the consequences of those actions.
At least for this iteration of factional warfare im afraid.
|
|
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 13:57:00 -
[66]
Sounds nice so far, keep the infos coming
|
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:00:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn You can swing the carrot of conquerable low sec systems or whatnot all day long, the basic thing remains: Some people just can't stand the thought of loosing expensive ships. Who seriously expects someone who barely has 200M on his account, which he mined or got from level 3 missions over, say, 3 months, to burn a HAC in low sec combat? And IIRC most people are in that cash range, NOT in the multi billion ISK range that a few lucky ones enjoy.
If that's all they have after 3 months then they are a hopeless case anyway. After 3 months they should be running L4s in which case they can pull down 10 to 20 mil an hour.
I'm not convinced that there are a huge number of total 'scaredycats' in Eve. I think that the biggest stumbling blocks are the logistics and practicalities of PvP at the moment. Things like:
* It's a PITA to get into 0.0 * When you get there it's a PITA to survive.. * ..unless you sign your freedom away with some corp/alliance. * Finding someone to fight in low-sec can take hours.. * ..and they are probably bait when you do find them.. * ..or else some innocent industrialist trying to mind his own business.. * ..in which case you get an annoying security hit.. * ..which you'll probably get anyway if you're fighting multiple targets and want to help your gang mates.
From what little I've read so far I think FW could be quite successful. It depends on how the targets are spawned/reset and how easy/practical it is for the solo player to get involved. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:05:00 -
[68]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Factional warfare is not just in Low-sec. It is just concentrated there.
If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere. it is that in low-sec we have marked out control points which will bring the combat to them making it easier for you to find and take part in.
You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
Heh i guess the main hotspot for faction warfare will be Jita then At least we won't have a long way to travel to get in a new ship after we've been killed
|
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:07:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Jason Edwards
Originally by: Moncada Battlegrounds for eve.. Wow..
There's a system .3 off of Nourvakakien system in Citadel-lonetrek area. Where if you go to one of the moons in the system there is no tower but rather a deadspace area which is an "ancient battleground"
Though the rats suck. :)
That's probably because they are ancient. Give the poor buggers a break -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
NeverL
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:12:00 -
[70]
so can we(as in bob) take over jita now?
and on a serious note. what happens if one side is too dominating? how is ccp going to balance things out? __ We are not retreating - we are advancing in another direction - General Douglas MacArthur |
|
Thebro Nobrunder
Schrodinger's Renegades
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:14:00 -
[71]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Some of the options that have been looked at to 'move people' are Agent Quality degrades depending on use. Adding more agents. Having agents that move. Nothing has been decided but we are still looking at the issue.
now this is an interesting idea... agent quality would slowly improve over time, but deplete with use. (their petty cash runs out)
Another option would be "station missions". One time missions at a station. Would need some support for finding them however.
|
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:23:00 -
[72]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Some of the options that have been looked at to 'move people' are Agent Quality degrades depending on use. Adding more agents. Having agents that move. Nothing has been decided but we are still looking at the issue.
Why not simply tie the agent quality to your corp or faction standing? That way all for example lvl 4 agents for caldari navy would give you the same reward based on your standings towards caldari navy or caldari state.
There are a ton of low quality lvl 4 agents that are hardly ever used.
|
Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:25:00 -
[73]
So now I can finally stop biting my tongue!
Black Rise is mapped in full in the EVE Strategic Map Book. (Shipping Today) (Incl. Relevant nearby systems from other regions and entries into Black Rise on other maps.)
≡v≡ Strategic Maps now in Eve-Online Store |
Stakhanov
Metafarmers
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:27:00 -
[74]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Some of the options that have been looked at to 'move people' are Agent Quality degrades depending on use. Adding more agents. Having agents that move. Nothing has been decided but we are still looking at the issue.
Finally , dynamic agent quality \o/
Your time has come , Motsu grinders
Originally by: Bloody Puppy because it's a good game because it's a good game because it's a good gameeeeee ccp gonna nerf it
|
DiaBlo UK
Precision Engineering Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:41:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar
Originally by: CCP Lingorm You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
As a posthumanist revolutionary who is opposed to all of the empires and wants to see them burn, why do I have to sign up for one faction? Can I not just sign up *against* a faction?
We don't want their goodwill and a pat on the back. We want their deprecated schemes of territorial control to fail. We strive to demonstrate that nothing can stand in the way of immortal free captains who are willing seize their own destiny. It would be utterly wrong for us to run to Momma Caldari or Pops Amarr for a wet handshake and a "well done, child", when they are the ones who at this stage of history should be looking up at us and see the sweet, addictive possibility of freedom.
Does that mean we're left out of factional warfare, then?
goto 0.0
there, you will find very few factions, and you can forge your own destiny.
|
Ephemeral Waves
In terrorem
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:50:00 -
[76]
What functional effect does sov change in high/low sec have on those of us who don't care about FW? I assume that the stations will still be owned by the same corps and the markets will still be the same?
Is this essentially just a sly way of adding pvp arenas that have no affect on the non-RP gamers?
The blog isn't specific as whether the sov changes are limited to low sec or if high sec stations can be conquered as well.
|
Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 14:52:00 -
[77]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale who here lives in Kador? Anyone?
I do, and tbh the population in Kador has been on the rise in the last year. --
|
Wesley Baird
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 15:28:00 -
[78]
Will the pirate factions at some point be added to factional warfare?
|
Erotic Irony
0bsession
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 15:32:00 -
[79]
Can't wait to get the Scarab Lord & Grand Marshall titles on this toon too
^_______________________________________^ ___ Eve Players are not very smart. Support Killmail Overhaul
|
Admus
Multiverse Corporation Cosmic Anomalies
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:04:00 -
[80]
So what happens if one race happens to be a favourite for folks to sign up with. Say, Amarr. Could this jacked up faction completely take all of the, say, minmatar regions? Annihilate them completely from the map? If so, is that OK?
---------------------------------------------------------- "Villains always have antidotes. They're funny that way." |
|
Ratata K
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:10:00 -
[81]
what i was wondering was that many corps have more than one race in often have all reaces in. how will this affect factional warfare. are they unable to join?
just that _____________________________________
-cheers-
Ratata K |
Vibora BR
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:11:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Admus So what happens if one race happens to be a favourite for folks to sign up with. Say, Amarr. Could this jacked up faction completely take all of the, say, minmatar regions? Annihilate them completely from the map? If so, is that OK?
Good question!
|
Ambani
Gallente Infinitus Morti R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:20:00 -
[83]
I can see that you folks have not mentioned about station docking rights and so on - but the following would be nice:
- you can't dock in your opposing faction stations. - you have to have +ve standing to dock - this will ensure that there are no neut haulers supplying these stations.
will help develop a thriving industry around that area.
may be a restriction on ship types would be cool too - but is that asking for too much? :)
Meet Eve's most paranoid carebear - Ambani! |
J Valkor
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:23:00 -
[84]
Conquerable targets in space are not at all like battlegrounds. Battlegrounds in WOW had absolutely zero effect on the game outside of individual player rewards.
Good job CCP.
|
Lucy'Lastic
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:24:00 -
[85]
Good stuff. Im looking forward to corps being formed who solely do faction warfare and recruit only pilots from same faction. Might encourage more rping.Which would add more immersion to eve as a whole.
|
|
CCP Ginger
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:32:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Wesley Baird Will the pirate factions at some point be added to factional warfare?
This is one of the ideas for future expansion to FW yes.
|
|
Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:42:00 -
[87]
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar ...
Does that mean we're left out of factional warfare, then?
If you choose to not want their goodwill and not sign up then im afraid that is your choice, or a consequence of your choice at this time.
However, that is not to say you cant shoot at any faction warfare players so your not left out of factional warfare but, obviously, you have to take the consequences of those actions.
At least for this iteration of factional warfare im afraid.
I was afraid that would be the answer, but thanks for the clarification. Now, this of course makes me wonder... were we to try and "liberate" a system of empire sovereignty, would that be possible? Or will it for example be a binary system, e.g. one solar system belongs to either Caldari or Gallente?
I understand that upcoming blogs will deal with the concrete mechanics, but as some food for thought... constraining these mechanics to certain restricted localized areas does not exactly strike me as logical, from the "EVE as a sandbox" point of view. In the same vein, neither does a binary sovereignty flipswitch. Influence, growing and diminishing, stems from more than just the NPC factions. Concerns that this might completely mess up planned and existing prime fiction could easily be amended by employing a GM "admin" team that maintains these dynamic objectives, deciding where and what is conquerable according to prime fiction. As is the spirit of EVE, however, it should always be the players that write their own history... Eh, nevermind the last part, can of worms.
Carry on with the good work. ____________
|
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:47:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Ambani I can see that you folks have not mentioned about station docking rights and so on - but the following would be nice:
- you can't dock in your opposing faction stations. - you have to have +ve standing to dock - this will ensure that there are no neut haulers supplying these stations.
will help develop a thriving industry around that area.
may be a restriction on ship types would be cool too - but is that asking for too much? :)
This is something we thought very seriously about implementing, but given the current distribution of stations and the amount of disruption it would cause we decided not to invest the significant resources it would require for the initial release. Once the system settles down we may revisit the issue.
With regards to pirate factions and so, the entire set of systems and services has been designed with extensibility in mind. As a result, adding new factions into the mix as and when it makes sense to do so should be a comparatively painless exercise. We've tried to achieve flexibility and extensibility in as many areas as possible, so it should give us a very strong base to build from in future
|
|
Ammath
Amarr Mentis Fidelis R-I-P
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 16:56:00 -
[89]
So W-4NUU is going to be now a gateway to lowsec? So those of us holding Sov there are just going to get boned? Any compensation for this change given that it pretty much just opens up our whole area of 0.0 now to lowsec pirate dweebs?
CCP? Comment?
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
|
Shanelle Vinci
Caldari Navy Reserves
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:12:00 -
[90]
With the amount of Caldari mission runners, what will prevent Hi-Sec from becoming a Caldari dominated sone, and FW to become Caldari blobfests? This is not an anti-caldari rant, just an honest question. (2 of my 3 chars is Caldari)
|
|
Garr Anders
Minmatar Eve University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:35:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Shanelle Vinci With the amount of Caldari mission runners, what will prevent Hi-Sec from becoming a Caldari dominated sone, and FW to become Caldari blobfests? This is not an anti-caldari rant, just an honest question. (2 of my 3 chars is Caldari)
Who says you have to support the empire of your race?
----- Garr Anders
"The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
|
Aelena Thraant
Shadows of the Dead R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:40:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Ammath Edited by: Ammath on 14/05/2008 17:04:40 Edited by: Ammath on 14/05/2008 16:57:49 So W-4NUU is going to be now a gateway to lowsec? So those of us holding Sov there are just going to get boned? Any compensation for this change given that it pretty much just opens up our whole area of 0.0 now to lowsec pirate dweebs?
You couldn't pick some other system like TN-T7T or O-IVNH or some other inconsequential system in Cloud Ring to attach to? Actually if you linked near the conquerable stations if would make Cloud Ring in general a lot more interesting, and frankly make the region more fun..
CCP? Comment?
You get a new route to empire.... That in itself is pretty nice imo. It's the same thing when they released the drone regions. There are some systems that were dead ends that are now pipelines to the drone regions.
You also have until this is released to build up in that area if you want or move it... The fact that your getting a good waring is a good thing.. Why should CCP give you something for it??? |
|
CCP Atropos
C C P
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:43:00 -
[93]
Edited by: CCP Atropos on 14/05/2008 17:44:28
Originally by: Ammath Edited by: Ammath on 14/05/2008 17:04:40 Edited by: Ammath on 14/05/2008 16:57:49 So W-4NUU is going to be now a gateway to lowsec? So those of us holding Sov there are just going to get boned? Any compensation for this change given that it pretty much just opens up our whole area of 0.0 now to lowsec pirate dweebs?
You couldn't pick some other system like TN-T7T or O-IVNH or some other inconsequential system in Cloud Ring to attach to? Actually if you linked near the conquerable stations if would make Cloud Ring in general a lot more interesting, and frankly make the region more fun..
CCP? Comment?
Buhu?
You will have sovereignty in a 0.0/losec gateway without having to worry about it being contested. Furthermore, regardless of which system we pick in 0.0, someone's always going to feel that they've been singled out.
Whilst I can understand that it's less than ideal for you, it's happening, and I can only hope that you will embrace the change. You could start stockpiling resources for conquering the new region, since you now know that you'll have control over one of the few entry points, or could open it up and toll people to pass through, etc, etc. The only limitation is what you're capable of
Edit: dammit, 3 minutes too slow! >_<
|
|
Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:45:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Shanelle Vinci With the amount of Caldari mission runners, what will prevent Hi-Sec from becoming a Caldari dominated sone, and FW to become Caldari blobfests? This is not an anti-caldari rant, just an honest question. (2 of my 3 chars is Caldari)
Umm... the Motsu crowd are going to find the learning curve steep, very steep. Some corps/alliances have been doing this kind of thing for ages, I even know of a corp that moved to 0.0 to prepare for FW. Rookie FCs (I have a little experience in doing) are going to be torn apart more likely than not.
It also sounds like there are mechanics in place that reduce the ability for sheer numbers to be the determining factor in taking the control nodes.
Originally by: "Tareen Kashaar" I was afraid that would be the answer, but thanks for the clarification. Now, this of course makes me wonder... were we to try and "liberate" a system of empire sovereignty, would that be possible? Or will it for example be a binary system, e.g. one solar system belongs to either Caldari or Gallente?
I understand that upcoming blogs will deal with the concrete mechanics, but as some food for thought... constraining these mechanics to certain restricted localized areas does not exactly strike me as logical, from the "EVE as a sandbox" point of view. In the same vein, neither does a binary sovereignty flipswitch. Influence, growing and diminishing, stems from more than just the NPC factions. Concerns that this might completely mess up planned and existing prime fiction could easily be amended by employing a GM "admin" team that maintains these dynamic objectives, deciding where and what is conquerable according to prime fiction. As is the spirit of EVE, however, it should always be the players that write their own history... Eh, nevermind the last part, can of worms.
Carry on with the good work.
I am sorry? Are you trying to keep your sec standing up? Worried about not being able to go into High Sec because you are attacking military targets of the Empires? You have chosen to play an anarchist revolutionary terrorist. You operate a NRDS policy yes, but you are also targeting the empires and those working for the empires. Guess what ... you might lose sec status to do what you want. You might just have to become outlaws. I respect that you have chosen this course of play, but you just might have to suffer consequences for wanting to tear down the governments of the cluster.
Don't take it from me - talk to one of your own : Tatsue Nuko* Yes I know she is no longer in SF, but Stim from my understanding is a group that broke away.
*Link is to eve-chatusbo.com
Obviously this is a pvp focused expansion, but are there be incentives for industrials to set up offices and work in the new low sec areas (in my corp's case Black Rise)? While the jump freighter will make it possible to supply 'market hubs' in the warzone, would it be worth it to smaller industrials setting up a shop inside these areas or is the distribution of resources going to remain the same and so less frequented low sec will be just as useful (yes some industrials mine and operate in low sec).
Also asking this for my friends in the 4th who have not yet asked : with the factional bucket being similar to the alliance bucket, will corporations in alliances still be able to sign up or will their alliance have to disband to allow the corporations to take part as corporations? Or will this be answered in the next DevBlog?
|
Frothgar
Caldari coracao ardente Cruel Intentions
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:47:00 -
[95]
Will there be unique loot/rewards/LP store for partaking in the PvP aspect of it?
Would be kinda lame if someone casually running missions in their CNR in highsec could ***** far more faction rewards from the same LP store with little to no risk.
|
Ammath
Amarr Mentis Fidelis R-I-P
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:49:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Ammath on 14/05/2008 17:54:22 Edited by: Ammath on 14/05/2008 17:53:21 Maybe I am missing a mechanic... but we can conquer Black Rise FOR OUR ALLIANCE ? How about control over gate-guns :) And how is W-4NUU uncontestable? Lolz... new mechanic, RIP gets to own W-4NUU forever and ever? Hmmm didnt think so... silly devs..
Here come 300+ petitions...
The problem is that there are obviously better places to attach to CR... popping the only dead-end ice field system into a superhighway, and one the only deadend in the region worth anything besides XZH station its obviously questionable mechanics..
Also attaching it so close to the placid gate when BR already has a placid gate is kinda weird... who not make it closer to the Fade or PB or Syndicate games in CR?
It just seems dodgy...
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
|
Elisa Day
Koshaku Brutally Clever Empire
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 17:54:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Ammath Maybe I am missing a mechanic... but we can conquer Black Rise FOR OUR ALLIANCE ? How about control over gate-guns :) Hmmm didnt think so...
Here come 300 petitions :)
I believe the proper course of action is to stop complaining and get ready to kill the "lowsec pirate dweebs".
|
Cailais
Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:11:00 -
[98]
This sounds like its gonna be AWESOME.
C.
A new look at Local - IDEA |
Johncrab
Minmatar XBeyond
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:23:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Jason Edwards Edited by: Jason Edwards on 14/05/2008 08:24:44 ...
Quote: The core gameplay element of Factional Warfare is small-scale PvP combat. We believe that rounding up your posse, rolling out into contested space and having a healthy exchange of opinions and weapons fire with your sworn enemies is fun. Factional Warfare is designed to make this kind of experience accessible, with low entry requirements and a target-rich environment.
so big alliances arent going to be blobbing the area? ...
That indeed is the big question |
Corporati Capitalis
Tollan Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:27:00 -
[100]
If two corps join the same empire for the FW, will they still be able to wardec each other? If not, that opens up a rather nice possibility for my idea below (and is the more logical option anyway).
Below follows my idea to make EVE just that bit more cutthroat, please read it all before saying I suck and gb2wow etc.
Originally by: CCP Lingorm You can not go killing noobs with impunity by signing up. You can go killing anyone signed up to an opposed faction.
Why not change that a bit and have the best of both worlds? Here is what I have in mind:
Limit the amount of time you can stay in the starter school corps after you create a character. The exact time would be up for discussion but let's say 30 days, so when you leave the rookie channel, you have to leave the starter corp too.
Those who don't want to create or join a player corp (yet), will be moved to one of the other NPC corporations of their empire, preferably associated with whichever profession they chose at character creation - so all military gallente characters would be moved from FNA to the Federation Navy for example. All industrial characters would be moved to one of the industrial NPC corps and the business ones to a business corp.
If they will be moved to another NPC corp, why not stay in their starter corps, you ask? Because unlike the starter corps, those other corps are automatically associated with their own empire for the FW, so all their members will be attackable by the other empires. So you'll have to choose - if you want to not fear wardecs but be exposed to the risk occasional raids from the enemies of your empire, then you stay in the NPC corp. If you want to be free of said raids, but risk getting wardecced, then you join/make a player corp and leave your FW affinity to neutral.
What about all those mission runners with nice Gist tanks on their marauders, who were mostly safe until now, except for suicide ganks? Well, they wouldn't be THAT safe anymore, but they could still limit the risk somewhat - they could join a player corp for example, and "support" their empire's war effort, without actually taking part of it. That means they'd have to pay some amount of ISK to their empire and in exchange would get some amount of protection (by other PLAYERS only!).
How would that work? Well, as long as you pay the "support" money, you can't be wardecced by any corp that also fights or supports your empire, and in addition to that any currently FW-neutral corp that wardecs you will be automatically entered as an enemy of your empire. They can still come and kill you but would have to go through all the other friendly players and corps and in addition would be constantly at risk everywhere in the galaxy.
Benefits: It will be really hard for the macrominers/sweatshoppers to do their evil thing without repercussions anymore and a potentially sizable new ISK sink would be introduced to the game (the "support" money). More fights for everyone, more thinking and participation by the carebears (like me ) and only slightly increased risk to all those who never want to see another player in their entire EVE life.
And yes, I'd be the first to pledge my corp's support for the Caldari State and be ready to pay the required protection money regularly.
|
|
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:38:00 -
[101]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Ammath Stuff about W-4
More stuff about the same
When it comes to this sort of thing, I know that it's always going to inconvenience someone, and that if I put any degree of thought into it someone will usually say "but you didn't think of this, or that, or whatever, therefore you're wrong", so usually the easiest, safest and least biased approach is to just go with whatever seems like a good idea at the time without trying to justify it.
At the time when I decided to put in an extra 0.0 entry (because it seemed like the right thing to do), W-4 was the closest system to Okagaiken (the BR system in question), so that's what I connected it to. As you can see on the map it's since moved, but that's about the sum total of contemplation that went into positioning that particular jump.
Also, with regard to territory, it's always going to be changing hands between the empires; we're not at the point yet where your corp or alliance can directly challenge the empires for ownership of their own space.
|
|
Mioelnir
Minmatar KULT Production Atrum Tempestas Foedus
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:39:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 14/05/2008 18:43:13 Edited by: Mioelnir on 14/05/2008 18:42:53
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Originally by: Wesley Baird Will the pirate factions at some point be added to factional warfare?
This is one of the ideas for future expansion to FW yes.
Is this like the fairy tale of adding pirate level 5 missions or do you actually plan on doing it? Given how few players fly for them, I kind of doubt it ever being worthwile "developer time". Would be cool though.
|
raven415
Caldari Special Projects Corp
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:43:00 -
[103]
I thought the drone regions were a add on.
|
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:44:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Shanelle Vinci With the amount of Caldari mission runners, what will prevent Hi-Sec from becoming a Caldari dominated sone, and FW to become Caldari blobfests? This is not an anti-caldari rant, just an honest question. (2 of my 3 chars is Caldari)
I think the mission runners that want to remain mission runners will not participate in faction warfare anyways, since they can be killed anywhere in empire if they sign up. Hard to do missions if you have enemy faction squads hidden in the system, probing for you with an alt and then killing you once you're found. Or being alligned to a gate and warp to it once you jump thru, to catch&kill you fast and then go back to a safespot.
We'll have to chose, either missionrunning or faction warfare, not both at same time. It depends on how easy it will be to opt in and opt out though, a good combination might be doing missions for a while, then doing faction warfare, and when short of isk switching back to missions (leaving fw for that time). But in general you'r right of course, there are much more caldaris than gallentes, who built up a good standing with their faction and feel loyal towards the state, so gallentes will be obliterated within the first few weeks. And we will enjoy the slaughter and retaliate for what they did to us at caldari prime
|
Mirt T
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:45:00 -
[105]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Factional warfare is not just in Low-sec. It is just concentrated there.
If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere. it is that in low-sec we have marked out control points which will bring the combat to them making it easier for you to find and take part in.
You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
so once you sign up your in it forever ?
|
Mioelnir
Minmatar KULT Production Atrum Tempestas Foedus
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:53:00 -
[106]
Originally by: raven415 I thought the drone regions were a add on.
The opening of the drone regions was an add-on, they were in the database from the beginning though.
|
raven415
Caldari Special Projects Corp
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:53:00 -
[107]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Mr Horizontal How can you say Empire isn't suffering from overcrowding?!?!
Hisec as a whole is not overcrowded - for every jam-packed system there are twenty empty ones. Ergo the problem is not the amount of hisec space, it's the resource distribution within the existing area. This means that the solution is not more hisec, it's making better use of existing hisec.
can i get a list of those empty systems ?
|
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 18:59:00 -
[108]
Originally by: raven415
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Mr Horizontal How can you say Empire isn't suffering from overcrowding?!?!
Hisec as a whole is not overcrowded - for every jam-packed system there are twenty empty ones. Ergo the problem is not the amount of hisec space, it's the resource distribution within the existing area. This means that the solution is not more hisec, it's making better use of existing hisec.
can i get a list of those empty systems ?
Well, there's a map filter for "average pilots in space in the last 30 minutes" which should give you a decent idea.
Issues relating to signup, quitting, who can join, who can be shot at etc will be covered in the next blog which should be out in the next day or two; other combat-related stuff in the following one
|
|
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 19:00:00 -
[109]
Oh noes... fictional warfare is no more fictional \o/ 2isk
|
Dan Grobag
Caldari Oyster Colors
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 19:01:00 -
[110]
I was thinking about combat loses that you could, when you join a faction, get a special faction ship with special faction module, each time you lose it, you get a new one. If you make good scores, you get a better ship, if your score lower, you return back to a crappy worthless faction frigate.
|
|
Greenbolt
Minmatar Un4seen Development
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 19:03:00 -
[111]
so ... basically we have contestable low sec areas that faction warfare people can run missions..special combat...etc etc etc blah blah blah.
Sounds great.
now we have Alliance X...large yarring type...for an example..lets say Privateers ...they decide to camp said low sec areas and YARR Lots.
suddenly low sec FW becomes -new empire pvpers types meet 0.0 blob at gates and die alot.
Im sure there is a flaw in this logic but im not seeing it.. --------------------------------------------------- Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi? |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 19:08:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Greenbolt so ... basically we have contestable low sec areas that faction warfare people can run missions..special combat...etc etc etc blah blah blah.
Sounds great.
now we have Alliance X...large yarring type...for an example..lets say Privateers ...they decide to camp said low sec areas and YARR Lots.
suddenly low sec FW becomes -new empire pvpers types meet 0.0 blob at gates and die alot.
Im sure there is a flaw in this logic but im not seeing it..
Low-sec was yarr-land anyway... It's more dangerous than 0.0 tbh 2isk
|
Kirith Kodachi
Strife Mercenaries Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 19:17:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Greenbolt
suddenly low sec FW becomes -new empire pvpers types meet 0.0 blob at gates and die alot.
Well, those joining into Factional Warfare are not necessarily going to be newbs to PvP, they might simply be people not interested in the logistical hassles of 0.0, or those who like Empire war decs. Or even low sec anti pirates. Now there will be actual game content in low sec to attract them as well as the pirates.
And ultimately, an equilibrium should be reached. If too many FW pilots are ganked, the number of targets will dry up and the pirates will be forced to turn on each other or leave. Once they pull back, more pilots try FW and create an incentive for the pirates to return. Its basically like the equilibrium now except there is an additional reason to got to low sec.
</thinking-out-loud>
|
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 19:19:00 -
[114]
still wondering what will stop allainces that aren't signed up form using mother ships to camp popoluar battleppionts just to ruin people fun...
you should make NPCs in these ares just to attack non-faction players... or something... I don't know...
Also what will stop people in general form not just blobing, I mean small gang warfare? why would I only take 5 guys?
maybe if these points had contestable NPCs to fight if there is no players there?
Or.. ok check this out what do you think of this.
The battlepoints have NPCs fighting each other blue and red rats. this would make logtisics ships more fun as you could just go out and rep NPCs of your faction.
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 19:31:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Some of the options that have been looked at to 'move people' are Agent Quality degrades depending on use. Adding more agents. Having agents that move. Nothing has been decided but we are still looking at the issue.
Why not simply tie the agent quality to your corp or faction standing? That way all for example lvl 4 agents for caldari navy would give you the same reward based on your standings towards caldari navy or caldari state.
There are a ton of low quality lvl 4 agents that are hardly ever used.
Naturally there is the little problem that need correcting then: not all the races have the same number of agents. Caldari alone have more level 4 kill agents than Gallente and Minmatar together. So a dynamic system will require a rebalancing on the number of agents or it will (again) push for an increase in people running missions for Caldari (more agents = less decrease in quality as players can spread out more).
|
Xaen
Caldari Caritas.
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 19:39:00 -
[116]
So factional warfare is Battlegrounds, EVE style. Eh?
Cool. - Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Corporati Capitalis
Tollan Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 20:16:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Why you and your ilk always want to impose your playstile to other players that don't like it?
And why you always use macrominers/farmers as an excuse?
At least try to not be hypocrite and say "I want more targets, possibly easy targets".
FYI, I've never killed or been killed by another player in my entire EVE life.
You are at least partly right about the targets though - I do want more of them, but harder, not easy. But my targets are usually called "Pith Eradicator, Dread Pithum Mortifier, Core Port Admiral" and so on. But you have a point, I'll try not to impose my playstyle on them anymore.
|
Alz Shado
Ever Flow
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 20:55:00 -
[118]
And what do points mean? Systems! As your faction racks up points in hostile systems, control will slowly swing into your favor, until eventually you're given the opportunity to occupy the system outright. Of course, the enemy's trying to do the same to your systems, so a good defense as well as well as a strong offense will be needed if you want your adopted faction to prevail and dominate!
And what does "System control" mean, and what are the rewards for it?
-Do you get to control docking rights of NPC stations? Who gets control, the majority corporation? An individual pilot? -Can players collect taxes from the stations? Charge docking fees? Change repair costs (0 costs to friendly ships = fast and free 100% rep for docking during station battles) -Can you "bar the gates" to unfriendly ships? Take control of gate guns, as if they were POS guns? Will cynojammers be allowed in "Controlled" systems? -How will you know who "Controls" the system? Will there be regional announcements for takeovers? Will pilots in system have to evacuate or else get popped at the gates? Will clones be ejected/moved from the station?
//// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad)
"Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 21:01:00 -
[119]
It's looking very interesting! I'm no PvPer (unless you count the few encounters with pirates i've had), FW seems like a good blend between fun and commitment. One of the things that has stopped me from going to 0.0 was the relatively strict Alliance rules I saw floating around. I tend to be my own man, doing things according to my own schedule, and generally taking my sweet a$$ time ;-)
I'm looking forward to scrounging up some similar minded folk from the same faction and go hunting in a gang. I highly doubt I'll roll out my mission fitted Domi on my first try, nor will I fly in a full fitted implant clone, chances are that the first couple of runs are going to be in releatively cheap a$$ ships that are easily replaced (same goes for the modules). After raking up some experience, I might try some more expensive fits/ships. I'm really curious if a Destroyer gang is going to work (well)...
The only thing that might stop me from using this character is if the path is irreversible in some way, I don't mind really (extremely) hard to change course, but I like to keep my options open.
Looking forward to playing on the test server comming weekend.
|
Tatsue Nuko
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 21:01:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Dex Nederland Guess what ... you might lose sec status to do what you want. You might just have to become outlaws. [...] Don't take it from me - talk to one of your own : Tatsue Nuko
Well now now, I know Tareen (hey babeh) and I know it's not sec status that is an issue. The issue is quite a different one and illustrated in one of my posts on the page you linked:
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko (Possible venue that would make me salivate: Faction Warfare gets expanded in such a way that all the empires end up outlawing the Anarchist movements, forcing us out into a permanent 0.0 existance, where we can then be pursued more effectively than in empire.)
I mean, seriously, as you point out we are Anarchists and Terrorists seeking to dismantle all state and government. ALL of them are our enemies. This means that we cannot sign up for either of them - we'd be hypocrits if we did that. But with the current design, that also means that we cannot do anything new except possibly wardec everyone. But as Tareen points out, if the system is binary (that is, either Gallente or Caldari has it etc) the we achieve nothing by doing so.
What I would like to see given a requirement of mininum modification to this first iteration of the FW system, would be the ability to sign up against someone. And it isn't relevant only to us - Ushra'Khan severed all formal ties to the Republic after the Karishal thingie if my memory serves. If they want to join up in this, they'll now have to re-establish those formal ties by signing up for the Republic rather than against the Empire.
The problem for someone like U'K is slightly smaller than our (that is, SF and STIM and similars) problems though, since we want to kill everyone. If the system was non-binary - as in, requires people do run a positive sum of something, analogous to sov claim clocks etc - allowing people to sign up against a faction would be interesting.
We would not be able to place a positive claim effect on anything, since we are opposition. We would be attackable by everyone, since we'd obviously sign against everyone.
Not being tied to anyone would help keep such things honest as well, since we'd get no rewards from anyone except ourselves. The people that just want rewards and not immersion would not go for this option.
So, in the end, Devs,
Please please please consider implementing a signup against factions, and allow multiple such signups. Then we can make sure everyone in FW can kill us and we can have maximum fun as the outlawed and hunted anarchists. :)
It should be relatively simple to do anyway, shouldn't it?
|
|
|
CCP Prism X
Gallente C C P
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 21:15:00 -
[121]
Couple of points I'd like to address. Totally out of character seeing as this isn't General Discussion, but we all have to go a little wild sometime.
@FW: It's EVE - Style Battlegrounds! Well, sure. I guess if that is the best simile you can come up with, then yes it's a battleground in the sense that they are made for people to fight. It's EVE style in the sense that it's non-instanced, you can come and go as you please and it will still be there. It's not a mini-game within a game, it's just EVE combat mechanics adding another reason for people to venture out of high-sec into low-sec and you don't need to sign up to get in on the fight. It's EVE in the sense once you're dead, you're dead. There's no immediate return point which will take you back into the fight. You go ahead and try AV tactics there and see where it takes you, mkay? You're also still in the realm of EVE as if you decide to go AFK and grind some honour through your team-mates... well you're AFK in EVE, go figure. So, It's Factional Warfare Combat Zones: Say it with me "FWCZ's".. or FWZ's.. sounds kinda the same, don't it. You can call the Funions for all I care really, but they're not WoW-Style battleground.
@New Region? Was that hard? Can we expect more of that anytime soon? It was amazingly complicated. I had no idea really, but it was all good fun in the end. At first I thought it wouldn't be much harder than to modify the original seeder, but things never work out easy with exponentially complicated applications. It was still good fun. I'd do it again. Complications aside, once my lead has whipped me enough to get me to document the wole procedure along with all the anomalies encountered along the way: It will take a whole lot less time. I'd allow myself to, at the least, predict that you wont have to wait another 5 years. There's still other post-launch factors to consider, technical as well as others. For example EyjoG might be interested in the economic effect of adding a small region somewhere. Always fun to see how changes like this add the dynamic of the world. And yeah, the drone regions always were there. So we now have a precedence of adding one.
@New Region? It connects to 0.0! I don't really see how that is a horrible thing. But I'm sure there would always be someone out there who is bound to see it differently. We can't go ahead and decide to never link new regions to existing regions. Always having them start as dead ends would favour the sovereign of the connecting region way too much. Never connecting different high to low or low to null doesn't work either. Reimbursement is out of the question from my point, but if you need a logical reason you can think on the horrendous slippery slope that would lead down. It would just be horribly counter-productive. No way for us around this sadly so factoring it into our decisions is futile. When life throws you lemons you go... throw them at someone else and make a profit. I'm sure you can, somehow. There's always a way in this game.
~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008. |
|
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 21:16:00 -
[122]
Originally by: CCP Atropos
Originally by: Ammath
So W-4NUU is going to be now a gateway to lowsec? So those of us holding Sov there are just going to get boned? Any compensation for this change given that it pretty much just opens up our whole area of 0.0 now to lowsec pirate dweebs?
You couldn't pick some other system like TN-T7T or O-IVNH or some other inconsequential system in Cloud Ring to attach to? Actually if you linked near the conquerable stations if would make Cloud Ring in general a lot more interesting, and frankly make the region more fun..
CCP? Comment?
Buhu?
You will have sovereignty in a 0.0/losec gateway without having to worry about it being contested. Furthermore, regardless of which system we pick in 0.0, someone's always going to feel that they've been singled out.
Whilst I can understand that it's less than ideal for you, it's happening, and I can only hope that you will embrace the change. You could start stockpiling resources for conquering the new region, since you now know that you'll have control over one of the few entry points, or could open it up and toll people to pass through, etc, etc. The only limitation is what you're capable of
I love you. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 21:39:00 -
[123]
Tatsue Nuko, but you can attack all the empire forces in low sec where these nodes will be (and take sec hit)? Is the issue not being able to attack them in high sec other suicide attacks or wardecs?
|
Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 21:43:00 -
[124]
Originally by: CCP Prism X When life throws you lemons you go... throw them at someone else and make a profit. I'm sure you can, somehow. There's always a way in this game.
I love this, because it's the attitude I try to maintain through every EVE change.
I got my start as a salvager back when the missions were at the stargates, and I had endless vistas of "canstellations" to salvage whenever I wanted. It was awesome, it went away. Do I still salvage? You betcha! I just had to find other places and other tactics. That one would have gotten boring once I stopped being a total newb, anyway -- although battleships lobbing missiles tended to keep it exciting when I was in my Bantam.
As for Factional Warfare, I'm not much on PvP, but I do have some logistics ships kicking around. I'm already thinking I can find FW gangs who will be happy to have me accompany them (four large shield transfer devices are always welcome) which will give me access to lovely T2 wrecks to salvage. Will it work? I have no idea. But there's always a way. If FW doesn't open up new salvage opportunities, I'll eat a civilian shield booster. With no ketchup. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Gypsio III
Bambooule
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 21:50:00 -
[125]
Quote: So W-4NUU is going to be now a gateway to lowsec? So those of us holding Sov there are just going to get boned? Any compensation for this change given that it pretty much just opens up our whole area of 0.0 now to lowsec pirate dweebs?
Sorry to be harsh, but.... you're a 0.0 Alliance, not a bunch of carebears. If you can't defend your space, then you don't deserve it.
|
Tatsue Nuko
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 21:57:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Dex Nederland Tatsue Nuko, but you can attack all the empire forces in low sec where these nodes will be (and take sec hit)? Is the issue not being able to attack them in high sec other suicide attacks or wardecs?
I don't care about my sec status - we routinely utilize high-sec suicide operations against worthwhile imperialist targets (and so on and so forth). But thing is, as I pointed out, YOU guys would have to wardec us to be able to oust us from the empires or the combat zone unless you want to sacrifice your sec status.
What I want is the ability to tag us as against all the empires, thereby allowing everyone that signed up for any of them the ability to attack us anywhere. The problem I want adressed is the ability of ebil anarchists like myself and mine to hide behind the protection of the empires that we attack.
If we just treat it the normal lowsec route, it'll just get silly because a pro-Caldari signed up FW participant will be penalized by his own faction for attacking us in an area where we are attacking Caldari interests. I'd much want you pro-Caldari (or pro-Gallente or pro-Empire or pro-Republic etc) to be rewarded by your empires for killing obvious enemies of your empire, not be given sec hits for it.
|
Dex Nederland
Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 22:13:00 -
[127]
... obviously can't read very well cause I missed that part. I see your point now.
|
Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 22:24:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Tareen Kashaar on 14/05/2008 22:24:35 Yep, Tats (Hi there, sweetcheeks) knows what I mean better than I can probably put it in words.
Of course this is likely just a minor concern in the design decisions being made for FW, but you could be assured of our eternal gratitude (and free beers at fanfest!) if you at least consider these points in the design process. ____________
|
Lobster Man
Metafarmers
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 22:47:00 -
[129]
Are there any considerations for greifplay tactics when this is introduced?
For example, someone joins some faction (gallente navy for example, or however it will work) and acts friendly to all follow factionees in the area. Once you enter lowsec, will you be treated as friendly by all other members of your faction or will it still like the lowsec of current, where you might as well treat everyone as an enemy until you know otherwise?
I can see it that people join a faction just for the fun of killing fellow members of that faction in lowsec due to them thinking that you're friendly. Or maybe this is how it's intended to work
|
Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 02:53:00 -
[130]
A couple of questions for Greyscale/any dev who cares to answer, if I may:
First, regarding what you said regarding not adding any new systems because the current rubbish systems are under-utilized, do you plan on making changes to said rubbish systems to make their use worthwhile? Currently, there are entire regions or constellations that are barely better than lowsec...well, worse than lowsec, really, because there aren't even any level 4 agents to run missions for, and the NPCing/mining in them is utterly horrid. 95% of Tribute is like this, for instance.
My second question relates to the combat blog you mentioned. Could you tell us if this combat blog is simply for factional warfare, or if it regards combat post-Empyrean Age in all of its forms?
Thanks. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
|
Mystified
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 02:53:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Corporati Capitalis
Limit the amount of time you can stay in the starter school corps after you create a character. The exact time would be up for discussion but let's say 30 days, so when you leave the rookie channel, you have to leave the starter corp too.
I was in the "noob" corp for almost 2 years. Why, because it fit my playstyle and I met some really cool people there. And when I was bored the chat was usually entertaining. I did finally move into a PC because I wanted a change to to try some new stuff. Some people don't want to do PvP or fight others. It's what makes Eve so great - YOU DON"T HAVE TOO!!! Eve is the most complicated MMO I have ever played simply because of it's diversity.
Ultimately - IF you pay the money (invest the time, ect) for a hobby, you should be having fun. IF you are not having fun or don't like something - GO ELSEWHERE! There are plenty of MMO's out there.
That's my .02 ISK
Signature: It's my Character and I will play it how I want. |
Atiana Obaani
Interstellar Aid Society Celestial Imperative
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 02:55:00 -
[132]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
With regards to pirate factions and so, the entire set of systems and services has been designed with extensibility in mind. As a result, adding new factions into the mix as and when it makes sense to do so should be a comparatively painless exercise. We've tried to achieve flexibility and extensibility in as many areas as possible, so it should give us a very strong base to build from in future
Well honestly now, welcome to my first serious case of forum whining and CCP bashing. So instead of getting "factional warfare" we get "factional warfare involving only the stale old tired ass 4 main empires, effectively excluding any forward thinking sandbox type roleplay entities as well as pirate factions". WTF?!? Why can't I fight for Sisters, SOCT, Mordus, CONCORD, etc etc? If it is so damn easy to implement later, why not just include it in the damn initial release instead of totally excluding tons of people from this expansion?
"We MAY revisit the issue"? Not very stinking encouraging.
"Flexibility and extensibility?" For the rank and file I guess.
Sorry for the hastily typed reply, but I thought it would be really nice if I could get a ******* thing out of such a long awaited expansion.
|
J Valkor
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 03:11:00 -
[133]
To balance the system before adding a lot of different factions? Because the environment on EVE makes it difficult to really play test something before release?
|
Atiana Obaani
Interstellar Aid Society Celestial Imperative
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 03:28:00 -
[134]
Originally by: J Valkor To balance the system before adding a lot of different factions? Because the environment on EVE makes it difficult to really play test something before release?
Care to elaborate? I fail to see how adding all of the various factions to the expansion is any different than adding the stale 4. From what we have read already, you pew pew, your faction is happy, etc. The standings system has been in place for eons. So why would it possibly matter who you are fighting for or against?
|
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari Stickler inc
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 05:30:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Atiana Obaani
Originally by: J Valkor To balance the system before adding a lot of different factions? Because the environment on EVE makes it difficult to really play test something before release?
Care to elaborate? I fail to see how adding all of the various factions to the expansion is any different than adding the stale 4. From what we have read already, you pew pew, your faction is happy, etc. The standings system has been in place for eons. So why would it possibly matter who you are fighting for or against?
I imagine including the other factions means a ton more content development. Since, y'know, I hope warfare isnt identical between factions.
|
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 05:43:00 -
[136]
Quote: And what do points mean? Systems! As your faction racks up points in hostile systems, control will slowly swing into your favor, until eventually you're given the opportunity to occupy the system outright. Of course, the enemy's trying to do the same to your systems, so a good defense as well as well as a strong offense will be needed if you want your adopted faction to prevail and dominate!
So is it just lulz we won and lulz we lost of are there any benefits to conquering? The small gang warfare sounds great but the larger sacle stuff doesn't sound very meaningful.
Is there a win/lose scenario for FW? Let's say 75% of people sign up for minmatar and easily conquer all of low sec, will it be a true sandbox or will there be a reset or balancing between the factions?
Also, do you think the number of large capital ship fleets in every 0.0 alliance (which can easily jump into low sec) will be good or bad for FW?
|
Doytard
Amarr the oNe Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 06:02:00 -
[137]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: raven415
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Mr Horizontal How can you say Empire isn't suffering from overcrowding?!?!
Hisec as a whole is not overcrowded - for every jam-packed system there are twenty empty ones. Ergo the problem is not the amount of hisec space, it's the resource distribution within the existing area. This means that the solution is not more hisec, it's making better use of existing hisec.
can i get a list of those empty systems ?
Well, there's a map filter for "average pilots in space in the last 30 minutes" which should give you a decent idea.
Issues relating to signup, quitting, who can join, who can be shot at etc will be covered in the next blog which should be out in the next day or two; other combat-related stuff in the following one
Protip: There is a reason why they are empty
so what happens to the s that take the systems and just shoot everything Hi how are you
|
Mortok Tristan
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 06:06:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Mortok Tristan on 15/05/2008 06:06:30
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Quote: And what do points mean? Systems! As your faction racks up points in hostile systems, control will slowly swing into your favor, until eventually you're given the opportunity to occupy the system outright. Of course, the enemy's trying to do the same to your systems, so a good defense as well as well as a strong offense will be needed if you want your adopted faction to prevail and dominate!
So is it just lulz we won and lulz we lost of are there any benefits to conquering? The small gang warfare sounds great but the larger sacle stuff doesn't sound very meaningful.
Is there a win/lose scenario for FW? Let's say 75% of people sign up for minmatar and easily conquer all of low sec, will it be a true sandbox or will there be a reset or balancing between the factions?
Also, do you think the number of large capital ship fleets in every 0.0 alliance (which can easily jump into low sec) will be good or bad for FW?
I would also like the know the answer from CCP about the last question, please tell me capitals wont be allowed in FWCZ's ? all those missioners you want to attract, arent gonna find this so exciting once they see capital camps.
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 06:16:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Atiana Obaani
Originally by: J Valkor To balance the system before adding a lot of different factions? Because the environment on EVE makes it difficult to really play test something before release?
Care to elaborate? I fail to see how adding all of the various factions to the expansion is any different than adding the stale 4. From what we have read already, you pew pew, your faction is happy, etc. The standings system has been in place for eons. So why would it possibly matter who you are fighting for or against?
Several different things:
What will be the effect on market of the current wars? On production? On griefplay? ecc.
Plenty of things to test adding the lowest number possible of variables before enlarging.
Then there are the RP reasons: Why SOE will war against the non pirate factions? Why Mordu should choose different targets from the Caldari? Pirates are already enemies of all the empires. Player pirates are already free target if -5 and lower.
|
Yon Krum
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 06:46:00 -
[140]
Ok, I'll throw in my .02 ISK.
Evaluation to date: "Hmm"
Not "good", not "bad", not "this is why I reactivated" -- just "Hmm".
There are several pressing questions that I hope your future blogs will answer:
1) Griefing potential and fleets/grouping. There are very good reasons you do not mission with strangers. Nothing seen so far indicates this has changed. I'm sure that with an increased number of motivated players to group with, relative frequency of grouping-griefing will go down, but the principle of "don't group with someone and share their war-decs" will still apply. One possible solution: make FW fleets/allegences a parallel system, which would be nice.
2) Pirate gatecamps. Your new lowsec region will attact pirates like flies. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but as you design whatever compensation system will be in pact to induce people to risk their ships and clones more actively, keep in mind that being nuked by a non-FW participant is very likely.
3) What about all the systems with mixed (NPC) corporation stations? Will there be some provision for reshuffling ownership of these during FW (probably in future editions), destruction of their corporation's convoys to/from them, and the like? Or is this basically limited to war between a few faction security organizations, with pod-pilots as mercenary muscle?
Your thoughts on moving or degrading agents are excellent, and imply that unused agents could also *increase* in quality (and also hopefully, level).
My own immediate concerns regard points #1 and #2, in that order of priority. My long-term hope is that you will use FW to greatly increase the interactivity of all systems, with some more lively commerce to destroy.
More info please.
--Krum |
|
Lillian Meilleur
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 07:39:00 -
[141]
dont want to be overly negative but this sounds very much like world of warcraft... :(
will i have to do the mandatory pvp grid for epix in order to keep up with the rest ? :(
|
Plave Okice
Universal Securities
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 08:26:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Plave Okice on 15/05/2008 08:26:36 The wardecs question is a very interesting one, will this entail any change to the wardec mechanics?
Neutrals remote repping getting flagged? FW gangs getting flagged to every corp each gang member has a war to? Could be open to chaos (which I like).
The other big point of course is balance, I found with RvB (which I stopped leading due to other issues and has gone very quiet but has probably been the closest thing Eve has seen to FW up to now) the biggest problem was balance. Are you planning to interfere in any way if 70% of the player base join Caldari and FW is unrealistically dominated by one entity?
I'm not convinced it's going to attract to many newer players to PvP, well it may attract them, but I don't know if it will keep them there, there are a lot of PvP outfits out there with extensive gang experience who are planning to join which will make it very difficult for those who join from a pure PvE background, regardless of their SP.
I'm looking forward to it more than I was, simply for the "we can fight the other side anywhere in empire" statement which I wasn't expecting. The wrecks will blot out the suns.
Personally I'd force every player to pick a side and have everyone involved, but I know realistically that wouln't work from a subscriber base point of view, but then again few people would play my vision of Eve, in my Eve you get podded and you see "Game Over. Insert Coin".
Would you like to know more? |
Newbear
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 08:41:00 -
[143]
I do not like how Grayscale describes factional warfare as "a halfway house for players from Empire to get into the sandbox at the shallow end."
Halfway houses are for sex offenders and fellons! Bear in mind that 95% of the eve population is male and you have compaired us to criminals! As a cute 14 year old schoolgirl I find this very disturbing. Click here for my High Security POS Service
|
Varrakk
Phantom Squad Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 08:50:00 -
[144]
What about more faction ships? Pretty please!!
Faction Destroyers Faction Battle Cruisers Faction Tier 3 Battle Ships
Rock is overpowered, please nerf. Paper is fine.
Yours truly, Scissors |
Mr Horizontal
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 09:41:00 -
[145]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Hisec as a whole is not overcrowded - for every jam-packed system there are twenty empty ones. Ergo the problem is not the amount of hisec space, it's the resource distribution within the existing area. This means that the solution is not more hisec, it's making better use of existing hisec.
I think you guys slightly misunderstood the problem I highlighted about overcrowding. The problem isn't the occupancy of the systems, as in how many people actually go through that system contributing to lag etc (that's a relatively simple technical problem), but I'm far more concerned with the more subtle impact to do with the management of scarce resources.
The problem with the EVE Galaxy, is that a year ago it was exactly the same space, and yet the EVE population has grown while the amount of space and resources has remained static. From a completely personal perspective, I believe the level of resources available to me as a player were perfectly balanced in the first part of Revelations.
By the third patch of Revelations and Trinity, resources became too scarce to be effective to players.
Chronotis has commented in another thread in MD, where we are discussing issues to do with the secondary market (this is to do with public corporations, player banks etc). While the secondary market has very little influence on the game, it is led by a multi-factional group of people from even warring alliances working together to a common cause. As such, despite being small, it's a key indicator of the health of the economic fortune and misfortune of the economy.
The space, whether or not you introduce more physical systems and regions (which I believe you should do anyway), needs more resources to maintain the economy. The resources of any system, the agents, the belts, the security status, the connectivity to other systems and all these factors need to scale in line with the population, otherwise we have a situation of economic drought, which is a Bad Thing.
Director | www.eve-bank.net |
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 09:43:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Pottsey on 15/05/2008 09:43:47 As good as all this sounds itÆs for the PvP pilots. Will there be any decent content for PvE pilots? I am getting a little worried as so far there have been no hints at any new PvE content. Will there be any part of Faction warfair for PvE only pilots? Will I be able to take a side and fight against say Caldari without haveing to do PvP? ____ ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 10:00:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 15/05/2008 09:43:47 As good as all this sounds itÆs for the PvP pilots. Will there be any decent content for PvE pilots? I am getting a little worried as so far there have been no hints at any new PvE content. Will there be any part of Faction warfair for PvE only pilots? Will I be able to take a side and fight against say Caldari without haveing to do PvP?
No. It's for low sec. It's to encourage the step from high sec to 0.0. Did you even read the dev blog? It quite clearly states multiple times what the goals are and it is all PvP. So you want to be able to take over stations via missions or some such nonsense? PvE constantly gets new missions and content. There's not much more you can do with PvE content except make more missions.
How the hell do you fight against Caldari without doing any PvP aka shooting. FW for PvE already exists, they are called missions. God your post is making me nuts, it is THAT terrible, you are one helluva troll sir.
|
Karina Sasieko
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 10:19:00 -
[148]
Will there be pirate factions that you can join?!??!?!?!?! Guristas etc.
|
binnichda
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 11:14:00 -
[149]
Edited by: binnichda on 15/05/2008 11:14:52
Originally by: Karina Sasieko Will there be pirate factions that you can join?!??!?!?!?! Guristas etc.
oh jeah! can someone answer this? cause im too lazy to READ the whole thread...
btt: nice one! hope to see more blogs. a question to the modulpart - more fancy things to do for your faction = more reward? will the lp-shop be upgraded or are there other things you can get?
edit: damn alt... -.-*
|
Daedalus DuGalle
Gallente University of Caille
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 11:25:00 -
[150]
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Originally by: Yon Krum
2) Pirate gatecamps. Your new lowsec region will attact pirates like flies. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but as you design whatever compensation system will be in place to induce people to risk their ships and clones more actively, keep in mind that being nuked by a non-FW participant is very likely.
Im going to comment on this as we discussed this way back when in the initial thoughts about FW. It goes like this, this is EVE so when you fly around in space your flying around in space, not a seperate bit of space where pirates cant get at you. Pirates are a part of EVE and sure, there going to find low sec busier.. with pilots who are doing more and more PVP...
...that and everybody in the FW systems will be armed to the teeth looking for PvP anyway...so I don't see how meeting a few pirates will make a difference.
- What good is money if it can't inspire terror in your fellow man? |
|
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 11:28:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Wrayeth A couple of questions for Greyscale/any dev who cares to answer, if I may:
First, regarding what you said regarding not adding any new systems because the current rubbish systems are under-utilized, do you plan on making changes to said rubbish systems to make their use worthwhile? Currently, there are entire regions or constellations that are barely better than lowsec...well, worse than lowsec, really, because there aren't even any level 4 agents to run missions for, and the NPCing/mining in them is utterly horrid. 95% of Tribute is like this, for instance.
My second question relates to the combat blog you mentioned. Could you tell us if this combat blog is simply for factional warfare, or if it regards combat post-Empyrean Age in all of its forms?
1) This is something that has been brought up in discussions on occasion, but I make absolutely no promises or commitments on this front and this isn't the thread to discuss it further
2) Focusing on FW-related stuff; more generalist stuff is outside of the remit of this set of blogs
Originally by: Atiana Obaani Why can't I fight for Sisters, SOCT, Mordus, CONCORD, etc etc? If it is so damn easy to implement later, why not just include it in the damn initial release instead of totally excluding tons of people from this expansion?
For a number of reasons. It requires considerably more content, we want to test the system out with the basics in place before making things more complicated and we haven't yet decided on if and how we want to bring each of the factions into the conflict. It's also very hard to gauge the level of interest in fighting for these factions; while with the appropriate investment of resources we potentially could introduce some of these factions, or try and accommodate the anarchists somehow, but we'd need to try and quantify the benefits of doing so before committing significant resources to it.
Originally by: Mr Horizontal I think you guys slightly misunderstood the problem I highlighted about overcrowding. The problem isn't the occupancy of the systems, as in how many people actually go through that system contributing to lag etc (that's a relatively simple technical problem), but I'm far more concerned with the more subtle impact to do with the management of scarce resources.
I really don't want to get into economic discussions, here, not least because I'm not really qualified to do so. If you want to talk about this stuff I suggest you (and/or Wrayeth) start a new thread somewhere
|
|
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 11:31:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Daedalus DuGalle
Originally by: CCP Ginger
Originally by: Yon Krum
2) Pirate gatecamps. Your new lowsec region will attact pirates like flies. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but as you design whatever compensation system will be in place to induce people to risk their ships and clones more actively, keep in mind that being nuked by a non-FW participant is very likely.
Im going to comment on this as we discussed this way back when in the initial thoughts about FW. It goes like this, this is EVE so when you fly around in space your flying around in space, not a seperate bit of space where pirates cant get at you. Pirates are a part of EVE and sure, there going to find low sec busier.. with pilots who are doing more and more PVP...
...that and everybody in the FW systems will be armed to the teeth looking for PvP anyway...so I don't see how meeting a few pirates will make a difference.
Right! The goal was "make PvP more accessible", so arbitrarily excluding or limiting certain forms of accessible PvP seemed... unconstructive. Pirates are simply more targets, and as all FW activities revolve around shooting people, it's not like you should be unprepared for being shot at.
Meant to mention this in the previous post, but I'm leaving the majority of combat-related questions for now, particularly WRT the combat areas, war mechanics and so on, as they should be covered in more depth in future blogs and I don't want to get into them here. If you still have questions after reading the relevant blog please repost them in that comments thread
|
|
Yon Krum
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 11:38:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 15/05/2008 09:43:47 As good as all this sounds itÆs for the PvP pilots. Will there be any decent content for PvE pilots? I am getting a little worried as so far there have been no hints at any new PvE content. Will there be any part of Faction warfair for PvE only pilots? Will I be able to take a side and fight against say Caldari without haveing to do PvP?
No. It's for low sec. It's to encourage the step from high sec to 0.0. Did you even read the dev blog? It quite clearly states multiple times what the goals are and it is all PvP. So you want to be able to take over stations via missions or some such nonsense? PvE constantly gets new missions and content. There's not much more you can do with PvE content except make more missions.
How the hell do you fight against Caldari without doing any PvP aka shooting. FW for PvE already exists, they are called missions. God your post is making me nuts, it is THAT terrible, you are one helluva troll sir.
Vaal Erit,
While your irritation with the PvE focus of the previous poster is valid, you're also missing his point, which I understand to be "what economic reason draws me, a mission-runner, into this heavy pvp zone?"
To answer Pottsey's question: non-PVP activities look at this point to be the more economic-related activities of EVE, the selling of resources and such. My personal hope is that there will be SOME NPC targets associated with FW. And my understanding is that there WILL be missions that direct you into the FW zone. Whether those missions are combo PvP/PvE, or purely PvP, remains to be seen.
Fact is, there is very little economic incentive for an inexperienced player to go do PvP, as their odds of getting player loot are slim. If they just wanted the joy of pew pew, they'd go harrass folks in lowsec anyway, or play tag with 0.0 giants. No, something else has to exist for motivation, be that direct mission rewards, or collective bonus funds (or LP) to your whole side, or whatever. Without these adding FW will amount to just adding more of the same.
And to our kind Dev's comment on pirates: NO, not all space is space--that's why CONCORD and highsec exists. Having pirates in your lowsec area is fine and all, but when you're planning the rewards for participating in your FW star system games, please consider what additional reward needs to exist to overcome that added risk of unalligned opponents.
--Krum |
Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 11:44:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Sapphrine on 15/05/2008 11:45:36 A couple of questions. You've said individuals or corps. There are a number of fairly established entities that actively participate as paramilitaries on behalf of each faction. Many of these function as alliances.
If i'm reading you right, FW will allow corps / individuals to sign up to FW alliance groups essentially that are at war with each other. Will this essentially preclude corps within other alliances / other alliances as whole from signing up?
I suspect the likes of PIE, VV, U'K, EM will be particularly distressed if this is the case given that FW has long been seen as a major boon for the RP community that 'will eventually get there'. I appreciate that there needs to be a limited role out to begin with and that therefore FW will start relatively small and build up as it goes but i'm really hoping that the established RP community wont end up locked out due to a starting mechanic.
|
Miasia
Federatin Navy Assistance
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 11:45:00 -
[155]
I want to ask a few question:
I have 3 chars: 1 gallente, 1 caldari, 1 amarr. Can i sign up for gallente with my caldari character?
If i have signed up for one faction and i'm like a wartarget to any other opposing factions, can i come back to "normal status"? If i can not return to normal operation, FW is dead for me ;)
|
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 11:53:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Yon Krum And to our kind Dev's comment on pirates: NO, not all space is space--that's why CONCORD and highsec exists. Having pirates in your lowsec area is fine and all, but when you're planning the rewards for participating in your FW star system games, please consider what additional reward needs to exist to overcome that added risk of unalligned opponents.
I'm not sure I understand why "additional reward" is needed. A core concept of the system is that you will be exposed to PvP and you will be shot at, even if you choose not to shoot back. Why does it make a difference who's shooting at you?
(Issues relating to compensation, PvE vs PvP and so on will be made clearer in a couple of blogs' time)
Originally by: Sapphrine Edited by: Sapphrine on 15/05/2008 11:45:36 A couple of questions. You've said individuals or corps. There are a number of fairly established entities that actively participate as paramilitaries on behalf of each faction. Many of these function as alliances.
If i'm reading you right, FW will allow corps / individuals to sign up to FW alliance groups essentially that are at war with each other. Will this essentially preclude corps within other alliances / other alliances as whole from signing up?
I suspect the likes of PIE, VV, U'K, EM will be particularly distressed if this is the case given that FW has long been seen as a major boon for the RP community that 'will eventually get there'. I appreciate that there needs to be a limited role out to begin with and that therefore FW will start relatively small and build up as it goes but i'm really hoping that the established RP community wont end up locked out due to a starting mechanic.
This is something that will be discussed in the next blog, which should be out before the weekend. Please just hold tight for another day or two
|
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 12:04:00 -
[157]
Oh dear...
There aren't many details here but what I see so far is a very big kick in the teeth for players who were hoping for more than ****ty battlegrounds. The empires aren't "going to war", they're each only fighting over a handful of systems. In fact, the Caldari stand to lose nothing as they're getting a whole new region to fight over complete with stations and stargates (despite it not existing currently and no story being included on its creation/discovery). And what's worse is that this is lauded as being PvP for small gangs (which is what everyone wants) but so far as I can see it will ALWAYS be better to bring more players. So let me just outline what there is to do in faction warfare according to the blog:
- Battle through or sneak past lowsec gatecamps. In other words, get ganked by lowsec gatecamps of 20 guys with remote sensor boosted heavy interdictors and smartbomb bs in the path of the other gates to catch covops pilots. Send a dev from Jita to Hek through Rancer on a busy day and tell me again that this is a good idea.
- Once you've managed your miraculous escape from the gatecamp, you get to do what amounts to an ordinary mission for some special magic points.
- For those who want PvP without comittment, we have PvP-lite! Quaint little battlegrounds are spread throughout systems that award the winners magic-special-happy-points. The best way to farm these points will be to bring a massive gank squad and steamroll them all with hundreds of men. Failing that, just wait until they're empty and complete them solo since there's no guarantee of players being there 23/7 to even try to stop you.
To summarise, when Faction Warfare rolls out, make sure to start camping the gates in and out of the lowsec areas in gangs to get plenty of kills on pvp-fitted ships with nice loot. And if you want to take part in faction wafare, pull a hundred-man gang from your alliance back into empire so you can win every fight (because winning is fun). There had better be some serious changes to this before it goes live to promote smallscale pvp. I have several friends who quit eve because they were bored of it that are coming back this summer specifically to join in with me on faction warfare. We, like everyone else (and like CCP) want it to encourage smallscale PvP. There aren't enough details here to put a definite answer on anything but I hope to **** this isn't going to be how I think it is.
I don't like to point out problems with something without suggesting potential fixes. There are a few problems with lowsec systems that you want small gangs to penetrate: - Camps on gates can be any size and operationally invulnerable to small gangs. - Heavy Interdictors and smartbomb BS means there is no class of ship that can sneak past. - Camping the warp-in point to battlegrounds could be more profitable than completing them.
As much as I hate the battlegrounds idea, here are a few potential solutions to the aforementioned problems: - Install super sentries at the gates that engage anyone who engages in pvp at them. Current sentries are nothing to current tanks. Multiplying sentry strength by five will essentially make gates something of a no-pvp zone. It'll be possible to gank and run but only if the player can kill extremely quickly.
- Have players placed on a random entry point in the battleground when they warp to it. Put them on a random point on the sphere's perimeter, not at one entry point. At the very least, have separate entry points for each faction and protect the entry point from the opposing team's faction getting within warp disruptor range (50km with a lachesis/arazu). That stops the enemy from camping the entry point and just ganking all the opposing team's players for loot as they enter.
At this point, there isn't enough information for a conclusive preview of faction warfare and a proper assessment of the problems that will be encountered. I can only hope CCP avoid this battleground ****storm.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Andres Talas
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 12:23:00 -
[158]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'm not sure I understand why "additional reward" is needed. A core concept of the system is that you will be exposed to PvP and you will be shot at, even if you choose not to shoot back. Why does it make a difference who's shooting at you?
(Issues relating to compensation, PvE vs PvP and so on will be made clearer in a couple of blogs' time)
Because getting your frigates smartbombed at a gatecamp isnt a lot of fun, and teaches you not to ever do this again.
Oh, and that small gang conflict just had a couple of carriers hotdropped by a bored 0.0 alliance who'se POS op got cancelled.
There are *reasons* losec is pretty much abandoned, after all.
Here's some advice.
You have some quite unhappy roleplayers right now (you know, U'K, PIE, VV, CVA and EM all turning up on the same set of threads wasnt a coincidence. We *do* factional warfare already, after all).
Pretend the CSM election has already happened and *Talk to Hardin* . Talk to the Chin with the Spin.
Otherwise, there is a distinct possibility that you'll implement FW, and CVA, PIE and VV will square off against EM and U'K ... and we will be doing it the same way we do it already, and make up RP reasons for why we arent formally involved in FW.
And that would be a disappointment.
So talk to the Chin with the Spin.
PS Props to the VV types who were trying to stop me running those Freed Slaves out of Amarr earlier today.
|
Miasia
Federatin Navy Assistance
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 12:26:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Miasia on 15/05/2008 12:34:29
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'm not sure I understand why "additional reward" is needed. A core concept of the system is that you will be exposed to PvP and you will be shot at, even if you choose not to shoot back. Why does it make a difference who's shooting at you?
(Issues relating to compensation, PvE vs PvP and so on will be made clearer in a couple of blogs' time)
Why do you think is the current low sec so empty? If the addressed player group (like me) want to be exposed to PvP, they know where to go.
If there is no additional reward, FW will be like L5 missions ... nearly no one is using them.
I dont want to flame you or anyone, but that is my opinion as i feel i'm in the targeted playergroup.
Edit: The perceived lack of security in lowsec is much higher than my time in 0.0 space. That's why people like me avoid the current low sec like the plague. If you want to pull mission runner people into lowsec you need to give them more than the current lowsec situation. You need to give them an additional reward that is it worth to risk something. To risk the ship and the clone. Getting ganked at lowsec gates in the new regions (which will for sure be more heavily camped than rancer) is not funny and your project is quickly as dead as L5 missions.
|
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 12:29:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Andres Talas
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'm not sure I understand why "additional reward" is needed. A core concept of the system is that you will be exposed to PvP and you will be shot at, even if you choose not to shoot back. Why does it make a difference who's shooting at you?
(Issues relating to compensation, PvE vs PvP and so on will be made clearer in a couple of blogs' time)
Because getting your frigates smartbombed at a gatecamp isnt a lot of fun, and teaches you not to ever do this again.
Oh, and that small gang conflict just had a couple of carriers hotdropped by a bored 0.0 alliance who'se POS op got cancelled.
There are *reasons* losec is pretty much abandoned, after all.
Again, why does it matter who is shooting you, be it FW players or random pirates? That's the bit I don't understand.
As to other issues, as I have said repeatedly these issues will be discussed in a future blog and the comments thread connected to it. We already have plans for how we are going to discuss these issues with the community but it's premature to go into further details at this point. Again, just to emphasise this point, please WAIT UNTIL THE RELEVANT BLOG BEFORE GETTING WORKED UP. If you're not still not happy after we've published the blog and discussed the issues, then by all means make that clear in as constructive a manner as possible.
|
|
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 12:38:00 -
[161]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale As to other issues, as I have said repeatedly these issues will be discussed in a future blog and the comments thread connected to it. We already have plans for how we are going to discuss these issues with the community but it's premature to go into further details at this point. Again, just to emphasise this point, please WAIT UNTIL THE RELEVANT BLOG BEFORE GETTING WORKED UP. If you're not still not happy after we've published the blog and discussed the issues, then by all means make that clear in as constructive a manner as possible.
If you didn't want people getting worked up, perhaps you shouldn't have released any info at all until you had it all conglomerated and ready for publishing. One of the old devs (name began with V I think) had a rule, that no matter what you tell the playerbase, they'll automatically assume the worst case scenario and start complaining about it. In that sense, it's better to release nothing than to release a tidbit like this. Then later you could release all the information at once and start the constructive discussion.
It's also better to release all the info at once because you have people wasting their perfectly good time posting about problems they see in the proposed system that might have already been countered by some additional mechanic that we just don't know about yet. It really is not playerbase's fault if we get the wrong idea, we're each going off the info we've been given and no more.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Khan Rodak
Amarr Manu Dei Vigilia Valeria
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 12:38:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Khan Rodak on 15/05/2008 12:40:54
Originally by: CCP Greyscale (...)Again, just to emphasise this point, please WAIT UNTIL THE RELEVANT BLOG BEFORE GETTING WORKED UP. If you're not still not happy after we've published the blog and discussed the issues, then by all means make that clear in as constructive a manner as possible.
Gets the point, relax, and waits paciently and very concerned.
And Nyphur:
Please, nobody is perfect. By now, they probably seen some have spoken too much. Anyway, we keep pushing CCP and dev's for info so, its - in a way - our fault. Relax and wait. Our fellings have been stated, they will be taken into account. Hopefully.
New Seminarium open
|
Andres Talas
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 12:41:00 -
[163]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Again, why does it matter who is shooting you, be it FW players or random pirates? That's the bit I don't understand.
Because FW has a point to it, beyond being a target for a bigger gang than you have with you.
If I wanted to be a random ganker's target, I'd do something stupid like mine in a losec system with more people than me in it.
And the advice 'Talk to Hardin' is possibly the most constructive bit of advice you could get at this point.
Whatever plans you've got for discussing, talk them over with Hardin first.
|
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 12:44:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Pottsey on 15/05/2008 12:45:21 ôSo you want to be able to take over stations via missions or some such nonsense? PvE constantly gets new missions and content. There's not much more you can do with PvE content except make more missions. How the hell do you fight against Caldari without doing any PvP aka shooting.ö I donÆt want to take over stations via missions donÆt be silly. PvE doesnÆt constantly gets new missions, I have not seen a new mission in over a year.
How do you fight Caldari, I donÆt know get sent on an Gallente escort mission and Caldari warp in and ambush you. Get sent to ambush a Caldari escort mission. There are tons of options for PvE Faction warfare.
"There's not much more you can do with PvE content except make more missions." your very, very wrong.
My post is not a troll. All I am saying is there is a massive amount of PvP content and what appears to be zero PvE content. Not everyone does or wants to do PvP. Adding in PvE to faction warfare is better then just having PvP content only.
WhatÆs wrong with wanting PvE pilots to be able to support a faction? All I want to know is Faction fare purely a PvP content patch, or is there any content in it for us PvE pilots? If its PvP only then many players may as well pretend this expansion doesnÆt exist as its got noting of interest for us. There is no point in getting excited about a PvP only patch when you only do PvE. As a PvE pilot I have spent over 6 months waiting for something new to do.
____ ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Miasia
Federatin Navy Assistance
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 12:46:00 -
[165]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Again, why does it matter who is shooting you, be it FW players or random pirates? That's the bit I don't understand.
I try to explain it a little bit: You are alone and want to try to venture into lowsec. You fits a cheap ship and fly into the dark lowsec. (Even more worse if you fly your first BS or BC). The first thing you learn is: "You are dead." You get massivly ganked and "raped" by a few pirates.
After you wake up in your clone your conclusion is: "Lowsec is hell. Avoid it. There is no chance to survive."
Then you go to the forums and want to know what happened. You get flamed to hell because you are a "n00b".
So ... after you have expierienced this, can you explain why people dont like lowsec?
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 12:48:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Nyphur on 15/05/2008 12:53:55
Originally by: Khan Rodak And Nyphur:
Please, nobody is perfect. By now, they probably seen some have spoken too much. Anyway, we keep pushing CCP and dev's for info so, its - in a way - our fault. Relax and wait. Our fellings have been stated, they will be taken into account. Hopefully.
That's true, it's because we push for more details that we get little snippets like this. But my point is that the devs KNOW that the players will react this way and should just bloody ignore us. They've had five years worth of devblog experience to draw from, five years of the players reacting badly to being given snippets of information and reacting well to being given lots of details at once. They should know by now that they're going to get a lot of *****ing about stuff that may not even be relevant and yet it's greyscale that's getting worked up about the players responses. He should just ignore us until all the details are out because until then our opinions aren't worth squat.
Originally by: Pottsey WhatÆs wrong with wanting PvE pilots to be able to support a faction? All I want to know is Faction fare purely a PvP content patch, or is there any content in it for us PvE pilots? If its PvP only then many players may as well pretend this expansion doesnÆt exist as its got noting of interest for us. There is no point in getting excited about a PvP only patch when you only do PvE. As a PvE pilot I have spent over 6 months waiting for something new to do.
I assumed Faction Warfare would be mostly PvP but with PvE elements supporting it. The PvE guys would be running missions to knock out surveillance equipment or hidden stargates or to haul equipment/firearms into the warzone to help with the efforts. The PvP people would do all the fighting but the missions would give some kind of benefit. And as you say, there's no reason that missions like escorting NPC convoys can't work. It's not all about pod pilots, I'm sure the gallente navy will be involved in the fighting and the only way to really get them involved is through PvE objectives. I'm sure there'll be plenty for PvE in faction warfare, just got to wait for the details.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 13:04:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Nyphur They should know by now that they're going to get a lot of *****ing about stuff that may not even be relevant and yet it's greyscale that's getting worked up about the players responses. He should just ignore us until all the details are out because until then our opinions aren't worth squat.
Eh, I'm sorry if I'm coming across the wrong way, it's just that I know from a player perspective how easy it is to get worked up about this stuff and I don't want you guys to have to sit through a couple of days of that. The reason for the bolding and stuff is just that I'm trying to repeat the message in a way that people will actually notice when they skim-read my posts
|
|
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 13:12:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Some of the options that have been looked at to 'move people' are Agent Quality degrades depending on use. Adding more agents. Having agents that move. Nothing has been decided but we are still looking at the issue.
Why not simply tie the agent quality to your corp or faction standing? That way all for example lvl 4 agents for caldari navy would give you the same reward based on your standings towards caldari navy or caldari state.
There are a ton of low quality lvl 4 agents that are hardly ever used.
Naturally there is the little problem that need correcting then: not all the races have the same number of agents. Caldari alone have more level 4 kill agents than Gallente and Minmatar together. So a dynamic system will require a rebalancing on the number of agents or it will (again) push for an increase in people running missions for Caldari (more agents = less decrease in quality as players can spread out more).
Thats only if quality will decrease with use, but sure pump in more agents.
My suggestion was just to make all lvl 4 equal and set their quality level by your faction or corp standing. That way there will be more than enough lvl 4 agents for people to spread out and mission without lag. I dont see why dropping their quality with use would make any sense with this system. Moving systems all the time to do missions will just be a pain in the ass.
|
Esmenet
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 13:14:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Miasia
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Again, why does it matter who is shooting you, be it FW players or random pirates? That's the bit I don't understand.
I try to explain it a little bit: You are alone and want to try to venture into lowsec. You fits a cheap ship and fly into the dark lowsec. (Even more worse if you fly your first BS or BC). The first thing you learn is: "You are dead." You get massivly ganked and "raped" by a few pirates.
After you wake up in your clone your conclusion is: "Lowsec is hell. Avoid it. There is no chance to survive."
Then you go to the forums and want to know what happened. You get flamed to hell because you are a "n00b".
So ... after you have expierienced this, can you explain why people dont like lowsec?
It doesnt matter if its pirates or pilots fighting for the opposing faction that camps the gate.....
|
Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 13:14:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 15/05/2008 13:14:45
Originally by: CCP Greyscale Eh, I'm sorry if I'm coming across the wrong way, it's just that I know from a player perspective how easy it is to get worked up about this stuff and I don't want you guys to have to sit through a couple of days of that. The reason for the bolding and stuff is just that I'm trying to repeat the message in a way that people will actually notice when they skim-read my posts
Yeah, we do tend to be just a bit reactionary at times.
Thanks for the response, earlier, btw. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
|
Kaben
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 13:15:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Miasia
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Again, why does it matter who is shooting you, be it FW players or random pirates? That's the bit I don't understand.
I try to explain it a little bit: You are alone and want to try to venture into lowsec. You fits a cheap ship and fly into the dark lowsec. (Even more worse if you fly your first BS or BC). The first thing you learn is: "You are dead." You get massivly ganked and "raped" by a few pirates.
After you wake up in your clone your conclusion is: "Lowsec is hell. Avoid it. There is no chance to survive."
Then you go to the forums and want to know what happened. You get flamed to hell because you are a "n00b".
So ... after you have expierienced this, can you explain why people dont like lowsec?
First off you've decided to fly your ship into low sec, which comes with risk. Secondly you should insure your ship if you plan on doing phase one to minimize losses. Thirdly if you don't join a faction then gates guns should protect you, doesn't mean you will win, just means they will shoot at who's shooting you.
In conclusion: I'm not seeing any point you are trying to make.
|
Hugh Ruka
Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 13:17:00 -
[172]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Yon Krum And to our kind Dev's comment on pirates: NO, not all space is space--that's why CONCORD and highsec exists. Having pirates in your lowsec area is fine and all, but when you're planning the rewards for participating in your FW star system games, please consider what additional reward needs to exist to overcome that added risk of unalligned opponents.
I'm not sure I understand why "additional reward" is needed. A core concept of the system is that you will be exposed to PvP and you will be shot at, even if you choose not to shoot back. Why does it make a difference who's shooting at you?
(Issues relating to compensation, PvE vs PvP and so on will be made clearer in a couple of blogs' time)
Well what will be the difference to normal lowsec PvP then ? If you want to contest space, you head to 0.0. If you want random PvP, you head to lowsec.
FW should make give out some rewards (except system ownership change). If not, there is no incentive to risk you ship and clone in FW, as you can already risk it the traditional way in lowsec/0.0.
If you are attacked by an unalligned player while working on you FW goal, this poses additional risk (kind of like pirate intrusion into lowsec mission deadspace).
All in all, there is no reason to participate in FW so far from this point of view. --- SIG --- Goumindong for CSM. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 13:35:00 -
[173]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Nyphur They should know by now that they're going to get a lot of *****ing about stuff that may not even be relevant and yet it's greyscale that's getting worked up about the players responses. He should just ignore us until all the details are out because until then our opinions aren't worth squat.
Eh, I'm sorry if I'm coming across the wrong way, it's just that I know from a player perspective how easy it is to get worked up about this stuff and I don't want you guys to have to sit through a couple of days of that. The reason for the bolding and stuff is just that I'm trying to repeat the message in a way that people will actually notice when they skim-read my posts
Nah it's OK, you need to smack the players about now and then :).
I think we all get the idea. There are important details forthcoming and we need to wait for them before reacting. Otherwise we'll probably be making false assumptions and wasting our time.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Ivar Strahm
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 13:36:00 -
[174]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Some people just can't stand the thought of loosing expensive ships.
This is something we're fully aware of and we hope we've found something approaching a solution. Wait for the combat blog to explain more
This statement makes me very nervous, and I'm honestly surprised that no one else has picked up on it. It seems to imply that some change, perhaps specific to factional warfare, is going to be made to the death penalty system. I understand from the final sentence of CCP Greyscale's reply that we'll have to wait until the next dev blog for more details, but...
A huge part of why I started playing and continue to play EVE is because there is real loss when you get blown up. With module and ship prices dropping, the overall ISK supply rising, and insurance still being in the game, it's almost trivial for most players to replace their ships today.
Is your reply to Cheyenne Shadowborn's statement an indication that the death penalty is going to get lighter, at least in some respects? If so, this will mark the first time when CCP has made a change that makes me well and truly unhappy.
I'm almost certainly not going to quit EVE if this is the case (unless the "solution" is so mind-blowingly awful that it breaks the market, manufacturing and what-have-you) but I'll certainly be mournful.
|
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 13:36:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Yon Krum And to our kind Dev's comment on pirates: NO, not all space is space--that's why CONCORD and highsec exists. Having pirates in your lowsec area is fine and all, but when you're planning the rewards for participating in your FW star system games, please consider what additional reward needs to exist to overcome that added risk of unalligned opponents.
I'm not sure I understand why "additional reward" is needed. A core concept of the system is that you will be exposed to PvP and you will be shot at, even if you choose not to shoot back. Why does it make a difference who's shooting at you?
(Issues relating to compensation, PvE vs PvP and so on will be made clearer in a couple of blogs' time)
Well what will be the difference to normal lowsec PvP then ? If you want to contest space, you head to 0.0. If you want random PvP, you head to lowsec.
FW should make give out some rewards (except system ownership change). If not, there is no incentive to risk you ship and clone in FW, as you can already risk it the traditional way in lowsec/0.0.
If you are attacked by an unalligned player while working on you FW goal, this poses additional risk (kind of like pirate intrusion into lowsec mission deadspace).
All in all, there is no reason to participate in FW so far from this point of view.
Ah, there's the misunderstanding. The point I was addressing originally was "the presence of pirates will necessitate rewards of some kind above and beyond those justified by the presence of hostile FW players". I'm not saying there's no benefit to fighting in FW (more in future blogs!), I'm saying the fact that the presence of neutral pirates as well doesn't change that equation - we don't need anything extra as a result of neutral pirates.
|
|
Salacir Khan
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 13:48:00 -
[176]
Originally by: CCP Prism X Couple of points I'd like to address. Totally out of character seeing as this isn't General Discussion, but we all have to go a little wild sometime.
@FW: It's EVE - Style Battlegrounds! Well, sure. I guess if that is the best simile you can come up with, then yes it's a battleground in the sense that they are made for people to fight. It's EVE style in the sense that it's non-instanced, you can come and go as you please and it will still be there. It's not a mini-game within a game, it's just EVE combat mechanics adding another reason for people to venture out of high-sec into low-sec and you don't need to sign up to get in on the fight. It's EVE in the sense once you're dead, you're dead. There's no immediate return point which will take you back into the fight. You go ahead and try AV tactics there and see where it takes you, mkay? You're also still in the realm of EVE as if you decide to go AFK and grind some honour through your team-mates... well you're AFK in EVE, go figure. So, It's Factional Warfare Combat Zones: Say it with me "FWCZ's".. or FWZ's.. sounds kinda the same, don't it. You can call the Funions for all I care really, but they're not WoW-Style battleground.
Lemme try "FWZ! FCWZ! FCWZ! FCWZ! FCBG ! FCBG! FWBG! WOBG! WOWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoW-BG!" Ranks and Ribbons! YaY! \o/
Might be too early to judge but i get the impression that this whole project will just suck.
If u want PvP go the 0.0 there is plenty of it.
Seriously. Why would anybody who never wanted to PvP in 0.0 go to do the same thing now in low sec ? Cause u die a couple of jumps erlier with ur crew of unorganized random faction Buddies toa well organized PvP alliance Blob ?
I am very curious about the futher Blogs that are going to explain why there will be no blobbing...
|
Hugh Ruka
Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 14:14:00 -
[177]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Hugh Ruka
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Yon Krum And to our kind Dev's comment on pirates: NO, not all space is space--that's why CONCORD and highsec exists. Having pirates in your lowsec area is fine and all, but when you're planning the rewards for participating in your FW star system games, please consider what additional reward needs to exist to overcome that added risk of unalligned opponents.
I'm not sure I understand why "additional reward" is needed. A core concept of the system is that you will be exposed to PvP and you will be shot at, even if you choose not to shoot back. Why does it make a difference who's shooting at you?
(Issues relating to compensation, PvE vs PvP and so on will be made clearer in a couple of blogs' time)
Well what will be the difference to normal lowsec PvP then ? If you want to contest space, you head to 0.0. If you want random PvP, you head to lowsec.
FW should make give out some rewards (except system ownership change). If not, there is no incentive to risk you ship and clone in FW, as you can already risk it the traditional way in lowsec/0.0.
If you are attacked by an unalligned player while working on you FW goal, this poses additional risk (kind of like pirate intrusion into lowsec mission deadspace).
All in all, there is no reason to participate in FW so far from this point of view.
Ah, there's the misunderstanding. The point I was addressing originally was "the presence of pirates will necessitate rewards of some kind above and beyond those justified by the presence of hostile FW players". I'm not saying there's no benefit to fighting in FW (more in future blogs!), I'm saying the fact that the presence of neutral pirates as well doesn't change that equation - we don't need anything extra as a result of neutral pirates.
But you have to take that into account imo.
Otherwise there will be no drive for FW except roleplay. I think I understand your point and it is a reasonable one. After all ship loss is ship loss, not matter if regular PvP, PvE or FW. But the problem is the same as missions. Lowsec missions might give out more isk and more LP, but compared to potential loss it is not enough. That's why people crowd highsec mission hubs.
I think same will be true for FW. --- SIG --- Goumindong for CSM. |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 14:29:00 -
[178]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Ah, there's the misunderstanding. The point I was addressing originally was "the presence of pirates will necessitate rewards of some kind above and beyond those justified by the presence of hostile FW players". I'm not saying there's no benefit to fighting in FW (more in future blogs!), I'm saying the fact that the presence of neutral pirates as well doesn't change that equation - we don't need anything extra as a result of neutral pirates.
Yea, it kinda does. Reward needs to follow risk. There should be higher FW rewards in low-sec rather than high-sec. Unless all the rewards are in low-sec then it does necessitate more rewards. Are all the rewards in low-sec?
Now to some questions that are more important that i hope you will answer. I will try and provide as much context as possible.
1. Lets say i don't have any care to join FW because i don't like getting shot[a very wild hypothetical i know!]. I am comfortable with current unaligned fights in low-sec and live and produce there. What incentive do I have to join factional warfare? Or will everything just stay the same for me? FW is supposed to be the way into PvP for the majority of the populace, but how do we know people who don't pvp will join it if they don't already?
2. Will people be able to join factional warfare without leaving their corp. We know that corps can't join if they are in alliances[and this is bad btw, and if you want, i can explain a few reasons why], but can a player join without leaving his corp? Basically what i want to know is can i sign up for FW without leaving Merch Industrial if Merch Industrial does not leave Goonswarm?
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Zarch AlDain
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 14:31:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: CCP Greyscale As to other issues, as I have said repeatedly these issues will be discussed in a future blog and the comments thread connected to it. We already have plans for how we are going to discuss these issues with the community but it's premature to go into further details at this point. Again, just to emphasise this point, please WAIT UNTIL THE RELEVANT BLOG BEFORE GETTING WORKED UP. If you're not still not happy after we've published the blog and discussed the issues, then by all means make that clear in as constructive a manner as possible.
If you didn't want people getting worked up, perhaps you shouldn't have released any info at all until you had it all conglomerated and ready for publishing. One of the old devs (name began with V I think) had a rule, that no matter what you tell the playerbase, they'll automatically assume the worst case scenario and start complaining about it. In that sense, it's better to release nothing than to release a tidbit like this. Then later you could release all the information at once and start the constructive discussion.
It's also better to release all the info at once because you have people wasting their perfectly good time posting about problems they see in the proposed system that might have already been countered by some additional mechanic that we just don't know about yet. It really is not playerbase's fault if we get the wrong idea, we're each going off the info we've been given and no more.
Oh FFS. Take a happy pill and shut up.
We've been given some info, with a promise of more to come. Personally I'm extremely happy that we are finally hearing something concrete and would rather be told what is ready as it is ready.
Ignore the idiot Greyscale, most of us appreciate the time you are spending here and realize that it takes time to get a proper and detailed blog ready. I wait with interest to see how the points raised above will be addressed.
Zarch AlDain ---- My corp is recruiting. See the recruitment thread here.
|
Mashie Saldana
Hooligans Of War
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 14:31:00 -
[180]
Will you tweak the overview so we finally can remove neutrals from it if we want?
Would be great to only have gates and wartargets (FW & normal) visible.
|
|
Zarch AlDain
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 14:36:00 -
[181]
As the others have already said the presence of pirates is relevant.
Fundamentally for players to take part in FW they have to be looking for some sort of reward. The reward should be balanced according to the risk being taken - and the presence of pirates needs to be factored into that evaluation of the risk. (I don't mean dynamic '3 pirates camping this system so add 1 medal' or stuff like that, I mean fundamentally when the rewards are established).
Zarch AlDain ---- My corp is recruiting. See the recruitment thread here.
|
Mr Horizontal
Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 14:37:00 -
[182]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale I really don't want to get into economic discussions, here, not least because I'm not really qualified to do so. If you want to talk about this stuff I suggest you (and/or Wrayeth) start a new thread somewhere
That's fair enough then. Chronotis has been a star in MD answering questions there
Just add more space than just one region please, that's all I'm concerned about!
Generally though, what people have to remember is Eve is not a game where you can 'opt in' for PvP. Eve is what it is (and truly marvellous) because it's a dog eat dog environment in PvP and the Economy (but unfortunately less so in PvE). Therefore if you're concerned about *****footing into lowsec, grow some teeth. Even if it's not your main game to pewpew, in order to play Eve to the maximum, you just have to know how to take down a pirate or die in dignity by not having a completely useless set up. Virtual Darwinism ftw!
As far as FW is concerned, it adds a new dimension. If you want to reap the benefits of faction stuff, you have to sign up to the faction, but at the same time you open yourself up to other factions.
The only concern I have, is I just hope the reward is worth the risk, unlike with the largely useless L5 missions...
Director | www.eve-bank.net |
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 15:10:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn
So the best way to get people involved in low sec factional warfare, IMHO, is to revise insurance so that ships including T2 AND modules are insurable for, say, 80% of the worth. That will reduce the time people need to grind for a new ship and modules to 20% - equally for all players.
That, or have the faction agents provide free frigs, dessies and cruisers to the combatants.
Thats just my $0.02.
*nods* I could see the idea of insurance being improved when on a faction mission (since you are essentially doing government work at that point and should be able to submit a reembursement report). Though the thing I worry about is less ship replacement and more implants.
I have no problem loosing a ship, I can always fly a cheap one for fun. I can't afford a tricked out HAC on my budget (~30MISK/mo on a good month) but I can throw rifters away pretty easily. What I worry about is being pod-killed and loose implants since those tend to be a slow upgrade over time that would probably take me at least 6 months to replace.
|
Plave Okice
Universal Securities
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 15:16:00 -
[184]
Why does there have to be reward for everything we do in Eve? People compare everything to the isk/hour they can earn running missions, pathetic.
Anyone ever heard of fun? This is a game you know.
Would you like to know more? |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 15:19:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Plave Okice Why does there have to be reward for everything we do in Eve? People compare everything to the isk/hour they can earn running missions, pathetic.
Anyone ever heard of fun? This is a game you know.
Because people don't do what they say they will, and rewards work for pushing people towards doing different things that you want them to do.
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Doytard
Amarr the oNe Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 15:22:00 -
[186]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Ah, there's the misunderstanding. The point I was addressing originally was "the presence of pirates will necessitate rewards of some kind above and beyond those justified by the presence of hostile FW players". I'm not saying there's no benefit to fighting in FW (more in future blogs!), I'm saying the fact that the presence of neutral pirates as well doesn't change that equation - we don't need anything extra as a result of neutral pirates.
the misunderstanding is that we don't have the future blogs and are left to speculate on almost everything
and potsey why do you want this pve content, your on that mission and why not be ambushed by caldari players. far more dynamic than a bunch of kin/therm 1 launcher 1 gun npcs... and far more exciting.
that and wait... people actually just jump into lowsec in battleships? Hi how are you
|
Ephemeral Waves
In terrorem
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 15:23:00 -
[187]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale please WAIT UNTIL THE RELEVANT BLOG BEFORE GETTING WORKED UP. If you're not still not happy after we've published the blog and discussed the issues, then by all means make that clear in as constructive[/b] a manner as possible.
Post the blog then and stop jerking us around.
Sheesh, this isn't rocket science.
|
Greenbolt
Minmatar Un4seen Development
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 15:53:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Ephemeral Waves Edited by: Ephemeral Waves on 15/05/2008 15:27:29
Post the blog then and stop jerking us around.
Sheesh, this isn't rocket science.
Aye This teaser system of blogs is doing its obvious goal. get people excited/annoyed/interested in the update...But when you post a blog with vague information and then say...wait till we post the next blog for real details..
your gonna get speculation ...worries..thoughts etc. Give us lots of details..real facts...information to analyze and quit teasing us..
--------------------------------------------------- Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi? |
Sapphrine
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 15:53:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Andres Talas
And the advice 'Talk to Hardin' is possibly the most constructive bit of advice you could get at this point.
Whatever plans you've got for discussing, talk them over with Hardin first.
I hope to god they talk to a hell of a lot of other people instead of hardin tbh. CVA are barely a RP entity at this point, having far more in common with a normal 0.0 alliance. Hardin's opinions on FW will be heavily skewed by his play perception based on CVA's desire to claim Providence as an Amarrian mandate / province etc. That really isn't the play style that I'd want if i was trying to ease into pvp.
I think CCP will do far better talking to the likes of eve university and other budding pvpers looking to get into it and what they find to be barriers rather than pandering to those of us that have been at this a while :)
Read what has been said, this is a way to bridge from empire to 0.0 in pvp. That it involves RP and the various factions is good and adds a second angle but I think that their focus has been clearly stated.
I look forward to how it pans out and what role the faction RPers will have but i'm looking at it as the tool it is for now. Hopefully i'll be pleasantly suprised :)
|
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 16:07:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Pottsey Adding in PvE to faction warfare is better then just having PvP content only.
Going a bit beyond this statement, adding PvE content would be a good thing considering PvE content has the option to be a LOT more complex then PvP. NPCs can do a lot of things that PCs can't do, like set up acceleration gates, all those wonderful structures, sentry guns, destroyable resources (mining colonies etc?)
The point being that NPC content far outstrips what players can actually build and deploy, and having those elements integrated into FW would add significant richness to it
I will be curious to read the next few blogs and see if they have any plans there.
|
|
Oakrayven
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 16:38:00 -
[191]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Andres Talas
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I'm not sure I understand why "additional reward" is needed. A core concept of the system is that you will be exposed to PvP and you will be shot at, even if you choose not to shoot back. Why does it make a difference who's shooting at you?
(Issues relating to compensation, PvE vs PvP and so on will be made clearer in a couple of blogs' time)
Because getting your frigates smartbombed at a gatecamp isnt a lot of fun, and teaches you not to ever do this again.
Oh, and that small gang conflict just had a couple of carriers hotdropped by a bored 0.0 alliance who'se POS op got cancelled.
There are *reasons* losec is pretty much abandoned, after all.
Again, why does it matter who is shooting you, be it FW players or random pirates? That's the bit I don't understand.
As to other issues, as I have said repeatedly these issues will be discussed in a future blog and the comments thread connected to it. We already have plans for how we are going to discuss these issues with the community but it's premature to go into further details at this point. Again, just to emphasise this point, please WAIT UNTIL THE RELEVANT BLOG BEFORE GETTING WORKED UP. If you're not still not happy after we've published the blog and discussed the issues, then by all means make that clear in as constructive a manner as possible.
The problem is you guys keep doing things that prove you DONT HAVE A BLOODLY CLUE!
currently the situation is this
From Lowest risk to highest
0.0 "Junk space"(systems that virutaly noone in 0.0 cares about becuase theirs functionaly as usless to the 00 corps and aliances as an empire .99 sec system with no stations and 1 roidbelt is to a mission runner) 0.0 "Aliance core space" High sec Empire, Average High Sec 4+18mission hubs 0.0 the Current Warzone Low sec botlenecks with gatecamps
Frankly from the look of things so far, you guys could not be ARSED to figure out why the rest of us consider Level 5 missions a waste of effort, and now we see you comeing out with something that sounds like its little more than more Level 5 agents, same crapy reward for the effort but now with more risk. . .
Do yourselves a favor
look at the people who are doing Level 4s, and have max standings ACTUALY LOOK, see what they are flying, what their rigs and mods are, and their implants. then ask your self honestly how you plan to balance risking THAT vs some crapy mission payout when the plan is for them to lose half the time? (after all that is exactly how PvP works!)
|
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 16:57:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Tatsue Nuko
What I want is the ability to tag us as against all the empires, thereby allowing everyone that signed up for any of them the ability to attack us anywhere. The problem I want adressed is the ability of ebil anarchists like myself and mine to hide behind the protection of the empires that we attack.
Obviously if you are an enemy of all the empires, they will not support you in any way. Factional warfare is just a means to circumvent current Concord jurisdiction and non-agression agreement between empires.
FW is factions funding war decs for people that declare themselves loyal to said faction. If you declare yourself loyal to no-one, nobody will fund your war decs. Such is the price of anarchism. The SF policy has always been 'we have the individual responsibility to take care of oneself', this is now just more true than ever. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 16:59:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Pottsey
How do you fight Caldari without PvP, I donÆt know get sent on an Gallente escort mission and Caldari warp in and ambush you. Get sent to ambush a Caldari escort mission. There are tons of options for PvE Faction warfare.
wouldnt you feel its rather stupid if you as a gallente rp'er could go blow up stuff in caldari space without those taking part of FW beeing able to protect caldari assets?
|
Doytard
Amarr the oNe Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 17:01:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Oakrayven The problem is you guys keep doing things that prove you DONT HAVE A BLOODLY CLUE!
currently the situation is this
From Lowest risk to highest
0.0 "Junk space"(systems that virutaly noone in 0.0 cares about becuase theirs functionaly as usless to the 00 corps and aliances as an empire .99 sec system with no stations and 1 roidbelt is to a mission runner) 0.0 "Aliance core space" High sec Empire, Average High Sec 4+18mission hubs 0.0 the Current Warzone Low sec botlenecks with gatecamps
Frankly from the look of things so far, you guys could not be ARSED to figure out why the rest of us consider Level 5 missions a waste of effort, and now we see you comeing out with something that sounds like its little more than more Level 5 agents, same crapy reward for the effort but now with more risk. . .
Do yourselves a favor
look at the people who are doing Level 4s, and have max standings ACTUALY LOOK, see what they are flying, what their rigs and mods are, and their implants. then ask your self honestly how you plan to balance risking THAT vs some crapy mission payout when the plan is for them to lose half the time? (after all that is exactly how PvP works!)
where does junk lowsec go?
also highsec is definitely safer than even junk 0.0 provided your not in a hauler with goodies in the hold, or uber raven.
the reward system is currently ??? aka you may be risking a battle ship, doubt it will be crappy rewards... heh and some pvpers fly with faction battleships, faction implants, and/or faction equipment. if a gank raven costs 10mil or so to a ganker adding rigs and tank to that makes it what? 60-70mil tops?
Oh also max standings = jumpclones, i looked the other day at +4 implant prices when i bought mine, and compared to the price of +3s, about a year ago +3s were selling for the same price as +4s are selling now
what about the 0.0 players that fly moms and titans into battle.... how much isk is that on the line, lots of carebear activities go into that production
my corp was thinking of doing level 5s a while ago, but the reward just seems too low to send 5 players at one of the missions. even if it was in highsec Hi how are you
|
Reecoh Soltar
Exotic Dancer Talent Agency Zeta Tau Epsilon
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 17:08:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Goumindong
2. Will people be able to join factional warfare without leaving their corp. We know that corps can't join if they are in alliances[and this is bad btw, and if you want, i can explain a few reasons why], but can a player join without leaving his corp? Basically what i want to know is can i sign up for FW without leaving Merch Industrial if Merch Industrial does not leave Goonswarm?
Kinda along these lines, I was wondering if a corp is aligned to say Amarr and has a member who has high Gallente but low Amarr (say worse than -5) is that pilot going to be able to fight for Amarr and raise that standing (while lowering his Gallente)? I know Greyscale probably won't address this here (it being the wrong DevBlog) but hopefully this can be answered in the right DevBlog.
|
Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 17:11:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Merdaneth FW is factions funding war decs for people that declare themselves loyal to said faction. If you declare yourself loyal to no-one, nobody will fund your war decs. Such is the price of anarchism. The SF policy has always been 'we have the individual responsibility to take care of oneself', this is now just more true than ever.
You are not understanding the point she's making.
We want YOU to be able to shoot as us, as enemies of ALL governments and factions, without sec-status loss, need for wardecs, etc.
Right now there is no way for YOU to be able to attack us as an enemy of the Amarr, via the FW system. That is what makes us sad, and that is what Tats would like to see fixed! ---
Usagi Tsukino // Revolutionary Stimulus |
Sgt Napalm
Synergy Evolved Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 17:11:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Sgt Napalm on 15/05/2008 17:11:37 Risky, interesting and different. Thank you CCP. I look forward to more blogs about the subject.
On another note there was discussion from another Dev about changes to sec status according to concord standings. Will this change take place with this expansion?
|
theteck
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 17:21:00 -
[198]
that like good but for people, but without money maybe not ...
if faction war pay the ship or insure the ship and fit maybe can be fun for new people
because when we are new ... lost 300 millions affraid a lot :)
|
Latex Underwear
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 17:28:00 -
[199]
Originally by: theteck that like good but for people, but without money maybe not ... if faction war pay the ship or insure the ship and fit maybe can be fun for new people
because when we are new ... lost 300 millions affraid a lot :)
Then don't be stupid. Fly something you can afford. If you can't afford to lose a faction fitted commandship (300mill!) then fly a cruiser or a frigate.
</EvE PvP101> |
Masu'di
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 17:33:00 -
[200]
Will the Thukkers and Syndicate likely get a look in, in the next iteration of factional warfare? Knowing whether this will potentially be the case, will be extremely helpful in planning our future.
cheers,
Mas
|
|
Oakrayven
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 18:07:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Masu'di Will the Thukkers and Syndicate likely get a look in, in the next iteration of factional warfare? Knowing whether this will potentially be the case, will be extremely helpful in planning our future.
cheers,
Mas
Odds are that by the time their Ready to do new factions, the existing faction winner will be hard welded in, for example if we(Gal) get owned and defacto driven out of our "FW space", their will be negative incentive for the wining side (Cal) to give up their FW farming operation for the new faction, if the new faction is at war with Cal their going to be so far ahead in FW scoring that it will be pointless. (unless their plan is to keep grafting factions into the "war" so that their "at war" with the leaders in order to try to "balance" things.)
|
Prospectus Major
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 18:08:00 -
[202]
I so far am failing to see what is going to draw people into PVP. Hopefully that will be explained in future blogs. As it stands I see nothing changing from the current losec status where anyone can shoot you except the possibility that it is limited that those of your faction cannot. Then again what is to stop them from doing so? Ok so you can gain control of some 'space' for your faction...how does this differ from having to defeat some POS's. Seems that would be easier to do with a sizeable group and therefore again where is the draw INTO pvp for those who arent already involved.
I guess the question overall is what 'reward' is going to be significant enough to entice a non-pvp player into risking thier ship/equipment in lo-sec compared to moving to 0.0 which is relatively safer while 'learning the ropes'? I see this drawing the experienced PVP'r but not the 'Wannabe'
You are stating that FW privides a halfway house....to date I see no halfway unless the battle ends 1 point before the ship goes boom and is counted as a defeat while retaining the ship and gaining the experience to move into full pvp where ship loss is a potential given. That I would see as the comparison to WOW where the PVP essentially ends in defeat and not death.
As to the comment stated concerning 'what does it matter 'who' is shooting at you' I would offer this answer. Now in these losec areas the new pvp'r would not only have to worry about the pirates but additionally other factions increasing risk substantially. Again how does this added risk entice anyone INTO pvp?
The comment in the OP stating 'while moving from one to the other is possible its harder than it should be' is false. It is extremely simple to move into 0.0 avoiding all potential gate camps. Simply sell off all of your ships ect and move a clone to the 0.0 system you want to go to. Then simply self distruct your pod and repurchase your ship/equipment. Bingo you moved and avoided all potential loss in the move. Many already use this technique to get/train new skills now. Move clone to empire and destruct pod, buy skill and begin training it, move clone back into 0.0 and destruct pod again. How is this 'halfway house' adding specific places for gatecampers going to 'ease' this transition?
Overall more information which is forthcoming is needed for understanding the 'enticing factor' and I look forward to the upcoming further blogs on the issue.
|
Oakrayven
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 18:14:00 -
[203]
who knows
Mayhaps joining a faction means you get to fly "their" ships for free and whatever level of faction ships/implants that your rated for are replaced for free? Gee we get to save on the insurace cost
|
jacob2471
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 18:41:00 -
[204]
good luck with it greyscale. ill rant or cheer when i see the rest of the dev blogs. but more content to a already good game can only be a good thing hmmmm :)
goodluck.
|
X3k5
Amarr Brotherhood of the Phoenix Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 19:02:00 -
[205]
So far so good I believe. As has been mentioned before, Not everyone wants to pay for expensive ships that can get obliterated very quickly.
Its like joining an Army for your country and having to pay for your own weapons/tanks/planes.
So my question is will we get free war supplies and perhaps progressive ones. For example a player who has killed a lot more for his faction will progress to a free battleship from a Battlecruiser and so on. If not free supplies how about reimbursement for getting the ship destroyed in a FW battle.
|
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 19:05:00 -
[206]
Originally by: X3k5
So my question is will we get free war supplies and perhaps progressive ones. For example a player who has killed a lot more for his faction will progress to a free battleship from a Battlecruiser and so on. If not free supplies how about reimbursement for getting the ship destroyed in a FW battle.
We could always handle it the way real military contractors work.
Charge the government for 150% (or somesuch) for every cost and piece of equipment destroyed. Kinda reduces the advantages to winning an encounter, but that is what ends up happening IRL too ^_^
|
Ivar Strahm
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 19:26:00 -
[207]
Originally by: X3k5 So far so good I believe. As has been mentioned before, Not everyone wants to pay for expensive ships that can get obliterated very quickly.
Its like joining an Army for your country and having to pay for your own weapons/tanks/planes.
So my question is will we get free war supplies and perhaps progressive ones. For example a player who has killed a lot more for his faction will progress to a free battleship from a Battlecruiser and so on. If not free supplies how about reimbursement for getting the ship destroyed in a FW battle.
Am I the only one that sees this as a bad thing? I'm perfectly willing to admit to being insane if that's the case, but seriously, how is lightening up the death penalty a good thing?
EVE has always been the "hardcore" PvP game, where losing your ship means loss of ISK and time setting up a new ship. If factional warfare takes that away I'm afraid it will make the game a mere shell of what it used to be. Where will the adrenalin rush of jumping into low sec go if getting killed just means respawning at your chosen station with little or no actual loss?
Never mind comparisons to real life. This is a game. And it has always been marketed as having a harsh death penalty. Are you taking this away from us, CCP?
|
Odhinn Vinlandii
Gothic Fleet Fang Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 19:32:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Salacir Khan
"FWZ! FCWZ! FCWZ! FCWZ! FCBG ! FCBG! FWBG! WOBG! WOWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoWBG! WoW-BG!" Ranks and Ribbons! YaY! \o/
Can I have your stuff?
|
Marlenus
Ironfleet Towing And Salvage
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 19:37:00 -
[209]
Obviously we need to see the blog that talks about the FW rewards, before that we're just speculating.
But I don't see contextual (FW only) reduction in the death penalty as a bad thing. There's lots of screaming in this thread about the risks of lowsec -- and I agree there's currently little reason to go there -- but jacking up the reward is not the only solution. Reducing the risk also works.
I am hoping and imagining that there's some sort of military subsidy for FW losses -- something that lessens the sting and makes it easier to jump back out there for the next battle. Enhanced insurance would be the boring approach; small deliveries of Caldari Navy gear appearing in your hanger (with dire "for use only on official business!" stickers) would be fun too.
The other thing I'm hoping for is that there's some mechanism that prevents your fellow FW pilots from betraying you. If ganging up for a FW project has all the current risks of ganging with strangers, nobody sane is going to do it. But if attacking (or even just podding) a fellow member of your FW faction brought a concord-like response from some faction navy vessels, I'll be a lot more inclined to jump in a battlecruiser and go looking for FW fun. That's the biggest reason I don't go PVP-ing now: I don't have anybody I can trust to do it with. If FW includes a mechanism for changing that (short of the whole corp/alliance thing), it will be full of win. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Admus
Multiverse Corporation Cosmic Anomalies
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 20:01:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Admus So what happens if one race happens to be a favourite for folks to sign up with. Say, Amarr. Could this jacked up faction completely take all of the, say, minmatar regions? Annihilate them completely from the map? If so, is that OK?
I just wanted to post this again in the hope that it gets noticed this time around. I'm not sure if the game would benefit from the complete annihilation of a certain race (except perhaps those dirty, dirty Gallente) which I believe is an eventual possibility here, based on the information we've received thus far.
---------------------------------------------------------- "Villains always have antidotes. They're funny that way." |
|
Delpsi
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 20:02:00 -
[211]
If I'm a miner that sometimes risks losec to get at the ores there, and FW results in even more pirates hanging around in losec, then it is going to be harder than ever to get at those ores. Doesn't matter if I participate in FW or not. Or is the answer that I should never be mining in losec to begin with?
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 20:08:00 -
[212]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Again, why does it matter who is shooting you, be it FW players or random pirates? That's the bit I don't understand.
And that is why worry.
If I loose my ship to someone doing FW I am happy, I am doing something that from a RP point of view sound good, I am fighting with someone that is fighting me on a equal footing (no skill wise, ship wise, but gamestile wise, he will have my same limitations on targets and general conditions).
On the other hand the pirates will be there playing with different game rules. As usual they will have the advantage of choosing if they want to engage or not, the potential advantage of support from the gate guns is some FW player will try to break the gatecamp, ecc.
Essentially they will be reaping the benefits of FW without the commitment.
|
Weeka
Amarr Tetragrammaton
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 20:32:00 -
[213]
Question : What effect, if any, will factional warfare have on current faction ships, taking into account that those were'nt touched for a couple of months?
|
Ulstan
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 20:35:00 -
[214]
Quote: With the amount of Caldari mission runners, what will prevent Hi-Sec from becoming a Caldari dominated sone, and FW to become Caldari blobfests?
That would only happen if Caldari Mission runners were all actually active and skilled PvP'ers in which case...they aren't actually caldari mission runners, are they?
|
Xofii
Hedion University
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 20:45:00 -
[215]
You have locked out basically all ppl that are engaged in pvp atm, IE alliance bound, you have created great detriments for ppl who are pure highsec dwellers, IE no more highsec travel, and basically no rewards except the same as for all pvp or mish?
Who are you trying to attract?
//Xofii
|
Cailais
Amarr VITOC Chain of Chaos
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 21:22:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Xofii You have locked out basically all ppl that are engaged in pvp atm, IE alliance bound, you have created great detriments for ppl who are pure highsec dwellers, IE no more highsec travel, and basically no rewards except the same as for all pvp or mish?
Who are you trying to attract?
//Xofii
Small corps that cant/dont want to compete in .0 but still want to get into PVP on a more balanced playing field.
C.
A new look at Local - IDEA |
Tra Ding'ho
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 21:30:00 -
[217]
This would have been way more cool if...:
1) You can't bring anything larger than a cruiser because <insert sci-fi explanation here, such as "Ironically, this newly discovered region can only be accessed with gates from an older technology that will not accomodate larger ships").
2) The whole area is, essentially, dead space which means nano is out and, in conjunction with the above, no BS or BC. At that point, use dead-space like reasoning to exclude capitals because, for example, gamma-flim-flam rays prevent the successful deployment of a cynosural field.
3) deploy NPC pirates who use stealth bombers if gate camps get too big
Now you have what amounts to a really fun playground that isn't a WoW **ssy battle ground, that doesn't cater to the elite with cap ships or snake implants or 120+ million isk in rigs for their HAC, or BS to beat on cruisers from sniper range or BC with their ridiculous tanks. This sounds like a really addictive place to play with the fun ships of EVE.
As it stands, with open access, it's really just another low sec place with crap ore, an excess of pirates, and NPC opportunities that don't really make up for the risks and no amount of story line or window dressing is going to change the facts about the mechanics of the game. If we're just going to have another blob place, let's blob in cruisers and frigates.
|
Manu Hermanus
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 21:37:00 -
[218]
you guys should stop being such pussies and put your ship into some danger for ******* once. wah wah i want pve!!! I am not saying take stupid losses, you will just get frustrated and ****ed off if you do that.
also there is nothing to stop you from choosing on if you want to engage or not. wah wha pirates can just jump on you, okay so use the same damn tactic and jump on the opposing faction/pirates.
also i would hope that some targets have much less hp than a pos and can actually be taken out by a smaller group in a non capship area, like a deadspace only i would hope you could use a mwd. and maybe a few targets that do require capships for a timely take down.
my last question is will faction npcs attack players aligned with opposing factions, and will we see changes to faction police... aka not super webs, points, and ecm...
-Chainsaw Plankton
|
Nuyan Zahedi
Amarr PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 21:39:00 -
[219]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale As to other issues, as I have said repeatedly these issues will be discussed in a future blog and the comments thread connected to it. We already have plans for how we are going to discuss these issues with the community but it's premature to go into further details at this point. Again, just to emphasise this point, please WAIT UNTIL THE RELEVANT BLOG BEFORE GETTING WORKED UP. If you're not still not happy after we've published the blog and discussed the issues, then by all means make that clear in as constructive a manner as possible.
I can't say the answers provided in the Live Dev Blog satisfied me very much, but I'll wait with ranting until the relevant dev blog is out. -- My blog
|
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 21:49:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Pottsey on 15/05/2008 21:52:58 ôand potsey why do you want this pve content, your on that mission and why not be ambushed by caldari players. far more dynamic than a bunch of kin/therm 1 launcher 1 gun npcs... and far more exciting. that and wait... people actually just jump into lowsec in battleships?ö I see one of two things happening either the players warp and you massively out number them and win easy. Or they warp in with large numbers and massively beat you. I find 95% of PvP is like that and to me thats boring and pointless. ItÆs not more exciting.
ôwouldnt you feel its rather stupid if you as a gallente rp'er could go blow up stuff in caldari space without those taking part of FW beeing able to protect caldari assets?ö No I would not feel stupid as there would be a Caldari navy there. I am not saying PvE should go get the full FW without any risk, full rewards and everything the PvP FW people get. I would be quite happy if the PvE part didnÆt have anything or much to do with taking sectors for example. I am just saying some people donÆt want to PvP but want to do FW so a PvE version could be good. There are lots of PvE things you can do that dont work in PvP. There is more then enough room in eve for FW for both PvP and PvE players, whyt focus on one when you can make both groups happy?
A lot of us play Eve for the PvE part and have no interest in PvP. I find PvP boring and unexciting, I dont want to do it. But I do want to take part in FW. The last MMORPG space game I played had great FW and PvE content. I see no reason why Eve cannot go down the same path. In fact it seems like the smart thing to do as it would interest more people. ____ ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
|
ArmyOfMe
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 22:06:00 -
[221]
Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 15/05/2008 22:09:49
Originally by: Pottsey
No I would not feel stupid as there would be a Caldari navy there. I am not saying PvE should go get the full FW without any risk, full rewards and everything the PvP FW people get.
Im sorry, but even you must understand the logic behind the fact that if a asset of the caldari navy is under attack, that both npc's and players belonging to caldari will try and save it. It would feel moronic if i as a caldari solider wouldnt be able to help defend the assets of my faction
|
Titan Pilot
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 23:24:00 -
[222]
Prediction: Low sec camped by reds who could care less. Carebear tries to join in on a little FW, goes to low sec, dies from pirates, goes back to Empire runs missions, mines.
Faction warfare implemented in this fashion is dead already. Sorry to say, but blobs are the problem with EVE. Visit any low sec or 0.0 chokepoint and see what I mean. Heck I know some of your staff are in those camps...
How about you just make low sec a bit better and call it a day?
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.05.15 23:38:00 -
[223]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 15/05/2008 22:09:49
Originally by: Pottsey
No I would not feel stupid as there would be a Caldari navy there. I am not saying PvE should go get the full FW without any risk, full rewards and everything the PvP FW people get.
Im sorry, but even you must understand the logic behind the fact that if a asset of the caldari navy is under attack, that both npc's and players belonging to caldari will try and save it. It would feel moronic if i as a caldari solider wouldnt be able to help defend the assets of my faction
I don't know what Pottsey idea is, but for me I am willing to fight FW players beside and in addition of PvE enemies, but I don't want a PvP only play.
If it is PvP only (don't seem so from the blog) it has little appeal for me.
PvP only essentially mean "see enemy, shoot enemy, win/lose", no strategic targets, so storyline behind what you are doing. At that point it can be done in low sec already. It is called piracy and counter piracy.
|
Ava Santiago
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 00:21:00 -
[224]
Nothing so far has sold me on FW.
My estimated loss for getting pod killed in any kind of PvP encounter is about 100 million isk. Assuming I have a 50% chance of that happening in any PvP encounter, I need to earn over 50 million isk to make that encounter break even. Assuming I am not projecting a return that exceeds that number, I will not put myself in a position where I feel that that encounter is likely to happen.
The only way to reduce this cost is through jump clones and better insurance. Increasing availability of both of those for FW players will assist you in lower the cost for those players and increasing player participation.
Concord doesn't provide consequences. Concord provides insurance payouts. |
Masu'di
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 00:41:00 -
[225]
Quick question, if I say fight for the Gallente or Minmatar, and get standings rewards for success. Will I then get negative standings hit, with all the factions that don't like them, or just the ones they at war with?
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 00:58:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Masu'di Quick question, if I say fight for the Gallente or Minmatar, and get standings rewards for success. Will I then get negative standings hit, with all the factions that don't like them, or just the ones they at war with?
dunno how itll work for pvp relationship.
The missions though will be against the enemy npc corp. Which does indeed hurt your standing significantly. Just like as if you were to run Enemies Abound or In the Midst of Deadspace
|
Superfuzz Bigmuff
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 01:08:00 -
[227]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
The second is that we're not convinced that "more space" is an answer to anything. Hisec as a whole is not, as far as I'm aware, actually crowded right now - yes there are hot spots, but on the flipside, WHO HERE LIVES IN KADOR? Anyone?
WTF? I love Kador!
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 01:10:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Ava Santiago Nothing so far has sold me on FW.
My estimated loss for getting pod killed in any kind of PvP encounter is about 100 million isk. Assuming I have a 50% chance of that happening in any PvP encounter, I need to earn over 50 million isk to make that encounter break even. Assuming I am not projecting a return that exceeds that number, I will not put myself in a position where I feel that that encounter is likely to happen.
The only way to reduce this cost is through jump clones and better insurance. Increasing availability of both of those for FW players will assist you in lower the cost for those players and increasing player participation.
pvp is that risk obviously.
Typically what most do is make a pvp jumpclone. Instead of a rack of full slaves and 5-7% skill boosters. Use what you can afford to loose. +3 cheapo implants and 3% skill boosters is my zone roughly. 25mil or so if you get podded. Acceptable loss.
The other factor is that it is low sec. Most lock times for pods is 5+ seconds. Which is plenty of time to align and warp off when there's no bubble.
|
Daan Sai
HAZCON Inc
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 01:28:00 -
[229]
Sounds great, nice to have a whole new region moving in next door too. Looking forward to the SiSi test for an early taste. I hope the RP empire alliance issues are sorted out nicely and quickly too.
How are you going to address gate camping choke points into lowsec - A big disincentive to those new to PvP from even trying to get into the FW areas in the first place. Concord strength gate sentries on the new gates?
I'd use lowsec much more if the jump into the 1st system wasn't such a PITA!
Hope this hasn't delayed the final roll out of trinity graphics, after phase 1, ships stations and gates, now we want the rest to catch up.
Can the latest live devblog be officially transcribed for the benefit of the wider player base as well, please?
|
OSGOD
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 02:17:00 -
[230]
well that explains nothing at all,example do i have to involve myself or do i have the chioce to ignore factional warfare i do not want to PvP everytime i undock ,i enjoy this game simply becuase i have chioce are you taking that choice away from me
|
|
Manu Hermanus
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 02:31:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 15/05/2008 21:52:58 ôand potsey why do you want this pve content, your on that mission and why not be ambushed by caldari players. far more dynamic than a bunch of kin/therm 1 launcher 1 gun npcs... and far more exciting. that and wait... people actually just jump into lowsec in battleships?ö I see one of two things happening either the players warp and you massively out number them and win easy. Or they warp in with large numbers and massively beat you. I find 95% of PvP is like that and to me thats boring and pointless. ItÆs not more exciting.
ôwouldnt you feel its rather stupid if you as a gallente rp'er could go blow up stuff in caldari space without those taking part of FW beeing able to protect caldari assets?ö No I would not feel stupid as there would be a Caldari navy there. I am not saying PvE should go get the full FW without any risk, full rewards and everything the PvP FW people get. I would be quite happy if the PvE part didnÆt have anything or much to do with taking sectors for example. I am just saying some people donÆt want to PvP but want to do FW so a PvE version could be good. There are lots of PvE things you can do that dont work in PvP. There is more then enough room in eve for FW for both PvP and PvE players, whyt focus on one when you can make both groups happy?
A lot of us play Eve for the PvE part and have no interest in PvP. I find PvP boring and unexciting, I dont want to do it. But I do want to take part in FW. The last MMORPG space game I played had great FW and PvE content. I see no reason why Eve cannot go down the same path. In fact it seems like the smart thing to do as it would interest more people.
mmm blobbing... all i can say is a scout can be a wonderful thing, and blobbing in my experience has usually meant 5 hostile pilots. Oh and the uber rare MM 20man squad.
and fantastic pve and and warfare... please do explain this further than I don't want my **** to get blown up, as saying that will just attract more flames.
and to you implant ******* I fly around lowsec with a +5 set on this character, and chainsaw is in 0.0 with a +4 set and some hardwire implants as well. its really not that scary.
|
Victor Forge
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 03:05:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Garr Anders
Originally by: Shanelle Vinci With the amount of Caldari mission runners, what will prevent Hi-Sec from becoming a Caldari dominated sone, and FW to become Caldari blobfests? This is not an anti-caldari rant, just an honest question. (2 of my 3 chars is Caldari)
Who says you have to support the empire of your race?
Nothing, but either way there will be a faction that will be bigger than the others. And it could very well be Minmatar "aww lets help those poor ex-slaves".
But the point is that in any mmorpg with pvp it is rewarding to join the biggest side. Hoping that it will adjust itself because players will join the smaller side because they feel sorry for that side will not happen.
Look at Dark Age of Camelot for example, Midgard was the biggest realm from start and it stayed the biggest. In WoW in old PvE realms Alliance outnumbered Horde 2-3 to 1 and dominated world pvp completly by invading Horde towns and killing NPCs and it didn¦t even out at all until Blizzard added a pretty race to Horde.
The knowledge that side A is outnumbered will not cause people to roll / chose side A to even it out. If they chose side B it means that they have the numbers on their side and will have much less to worry about.
In EvE this could mean that 0.0 Alliances pick sides first, with the casual pvpers waiting and then join the biggest side, since that means they can do pvp but too less risk than joing a smaller fraction. Creating a snowball-effect. ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwaMHJzruDU&feature=related |
Swift Voyager
BLL Wise Guys Shadows Incursion
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 03:14:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Swift Voyager on 16/05/2008 03:15:14
Originally by: Manu Hermanus and to you implant ______ I fly around lowsec with a +5 set on this character, and chainsaw is in 0.0 with a +4 set and some hardwire implants as well. its really not that scary.
Amen to that. Most people in Eve are far to scared of losing things. The solution is simple: Get a jump clone with no implants or only use what you can afford to lose. Getting blown up and podded is the most exciting thing that can happen in Eve, especially when you are flying something really expensive. Keep in mind that you're flying a play spaceship that you bought with play money, for the purpose of playing a game where you shoot things and get shot at with play guns. :) Most people in Eve haven't really tasted PvP except for the high-sec ganking where they have no chance to win and didn't want the fight in the first place. On the other hand, once the average person gets a taste of PvP in Eve they never ever want to go back to carebearing in empire again (except to earn more isk so they can pvp some more)
Question for the Dev's: Will there be any aspect of the FW design that makes it easier for people to form pick-up groups? I realize you're going to give more specifics later about joining and the specifics, I just want to know if this is part of the design or not.
P.S. Thanks for all the great feedback. There's been lots of blog and conference discussions lately about how hard it is to interact with the players (Raph Koster's blog, GDC seminar about community, EA's reasons for not having a Warhammer forum, etc...). You know we love you guys. /group_hug
------------------------------------------ You can monkey-proof your software but you can't monkey-proof the monkeys. |
Kil'Roy
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 03:20:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Salacir Khan
(Stuff)
...Might be too early to judge...
(Stuff)
I think you might be on to something here.
|
Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 03:23:00 -
[235]
you have no idea how much pain I am due to my ISP failing and giving me constant disco's... anyway a few questions.
1. maybe stealing from combat blog: Are their gonna be friendly and hostile npc's in one area that you are fighting in... if so can I bring my logistics out to these area's and be rep my minmatar npc allies? (if I can pls make sure they don't shoot me when I repair them.... I get shot enough by my allies while trying to repair >.>) 1b. Are we gonna see some npc on npc action (I know it sounds dirty)... I remember warping in to see <insert pirate group here> and <also here> fighting each other in the worlds collide mission. From what I could tell they where engaged in a epic staring contest (I think angels where winning) at 200km. If there is gonna be npc vs npc can you improve that slightly.
2. Can i jump quickly in and out of factional warfare? do some mining do some FW go back to mining (and not get ganked by amarr FW). Also up till now i have been working caldari and minmatar... is this the end of me working both sides? also <insert standard whine for caldari/minmatar faction ships>. Though my caldari relationship might be about to take a hit, will doing missions for minni's boost my gallente relationship? will i even encounter some missions to help them/they help me?
3. I'm assuming theres gonna be a load of new missions as well as deadspace places for FW.... mind giving us any spoilers on what we might do in some of these missions? eg. We lead a minmatar raid against a amarr slave facility and bring back the soon to be free slaves OR we lead a caldari raid against a gallente strip club and bring back the captured exotic dancers... yes all of them. 3b. Will there be any new npc's? also will we get a bounty for killing amarr npcs if we are working for minmatar.
4. IF it was me making FW i'd make the rewards increase the more your side is losing (overall, winning single battles is still far more profitable). The reason for this is to stop one side (say as a random example, caldari) from completely and uterly dominating their oponent and controlling all low sec with so many numbers that it's not worth trying to face them cause you'll get jumped by a hundred of them the moment you show your head.
5. what mechanisms did you put in to stop large blobs from swarming everywhere?
thx for all the dev responses in this thread Typhado
|
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 05:44:00 -
[236]
Since there's going to be more potential targets doing things inside of FW systems, I'm hoping you guys (CCP) take this opportunity to experiment with disincentivizing gatecamping in those areas, particularly by those who are FW-neutral. I've got nothing against campers, they're just playing the game they're given, but it's a lackluster form of PvP that drives a ton of people away from losec and EVE itself, before they can see all the interesting possibilities this game offers. And honestly, I believe some of the people it drives away are campers.
I also think discouraging gate camps in these areas will be a positive feedback loop. Fewer campers, fewer people getting ganked on their way to FW areas, more FW participation, more opportunities for piracy away from gates. People hate getting ganked no matter what, but as a generalization they seem to hate it most when it has any hint of what in other games would be considered spawn camping.
Anyway, whether it works or not, this seems like a good opportunity to play around with some longstanding gameplay mechanics. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Skyslider
Gallente Omerta Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 06:13:00 -
[237]
Err, so if you can sign up individually and as a corp, what happens when your corp signs up for a different faction than you sign up for? Are you effectively in both, or does the corp choice overwrite your personal choice?
|
Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 06:33:00 -
[238]
Originally by ArmyOfMe ôIm sorry, but even you must understand the logic behind the fact that if a asset of the caldari navy is under attack, that both npc's and players belonging to caldari will try and save it. It would feel moronic if i as a caldari solider wouldnt be able to help defend the assets of my factionö It would be moronic as a freelance pod pilot that you have access to defend all assets belonging to the Caldari. YouÆre a freelance pod pilot working for the Caldari as a merc, not a part of the Caldari military. You work for the highest/preferred bidder. The Caldari military are not going to give you free access to all there baseÆs even if you work for them. Just like in real life you donÆt work for the UK military as a merc then get granted free access to all there baseÆs.
____ ôToo many times. Too many times have the addictions of man destroyed the progress of ages. History is about to fail us again, and deny us the right to walk among you once more.ö |
Rugs
Amarr Yakuza Corp THE R0NIN
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 08:19:00 -
[239]
This question was asked in the thread before but couldn't find an answer for it. How are you going to balance the factions and the amount of players joining them, if there isn't a system for that, people will just start joining the winning faction? Also will you only be able to attack the opposing faction or the allies as well, from my little knowledge of the RP aspect of the game it would be Amarr/Caldari vs Gallente/Minmatar?
|
Techkraft
Amarr Chickens with an Attitude No Law
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 09:26:00 -
[240]
Edited by: Techkraft on 16/05/2008 09:31:27 - How long would it take to change from faction? - How long does it take before your faction gets active when applying? Mercing :). - The combat zones are they deadspace or do MWD's still work? - And the rewards, tags were mentioned. Does the same random cargo/mods 50%+ get destroyed rule apply and do the same salvage rules apply? - Will there be bounty like rewards for killing someone at the other faction? - A let's say -10 friendly pvpTr in a faction will he get turrets when attacking an opposing faction? - Will you get sec.increase for the killing of other factions? - What happens if you kill someone of your own faction? Is there a difference for high and lowsec?
|
|
Kakita J
Placid Reborn Tenth Legion
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 10:04:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 15/05/2008 21:52:58 ôand potsey why do you want this pve content, your on that mission and why not be ambushed by caldari players. far more dynamic than a bunch of kin/therm 1 launcher 1 gun npcs... and far more exciting. that and wait... people actually just jump into lowsec in battleships?ö I see one of two things happening either the players warp and you massively out number them and win easy. Or they warp in with large numbers and massively beat you. I find 95% of PvP is like that and to me thats boring and pointless. ItÆs not more exciting.
That is _exactly_ the issue that bothers me with pvp. There exist pretty much no interesting fights, except by accident, and then people tend to run away. In PVE this is balanced automatically, since in order to split the rewards among as few people as possible, players do complexes or whatever with as few people as possible, artificially tilting the combat balance in favor of the NPC enemies. This is possible since you have an idea what you are facing. In PVP however, bring as many friends as you can, period, since you have generally no idea how high the risk is going to be. If possible, use lame setups (nano ships, recons or mass EW) that allow you to avoid retaliation and flee if you are outnumbered.
What would make this sort of interesting would be battlegrounds with restrictions on the ships allowed in there (i.e., no T2, nothing bigger than T1 cruiser or T2 frigs, ...). This would enable newer pilots to compete, and also the risk of going in there could be better judged, and as such the automatic risk/reward balancing kicks in - actually enabling small scale gang combat.
-------------------------------------- "They better fix the *bleep* *bleep* *bleep* jump *bleep* gates before I *bleep**bleep**bleep* and then some."
|
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 10:49:00 -
[242]
With regard to general concerns about gatecamping, we're still waiting to see how this pans out in practice but the suspicion is that if five or ten pirates start sitting on a chokepoint, word will go out in the Militia channels pretty quickly and someone will show up to deal with the issue. My only real concern here is to do with sec hits in the process, and how willing players are to take them. If things work out nicely though, pirates are going to have a fairly hard time operating in the warzones and they may actually end up becoming some of the safest areas of lowsec for non-combatants. Hopefully the scheduled playtests will shed light on the matter.
|
|
Chronos VIII
Amarr FinFleet Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 10:59:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Chronos VIII on 16/05/2008 10:59:09
Originally by: CCP Greyscale With regard to general concerns about gatecamping, we're still waiting to see how this pans out in practice but the suspicion is that if five or ten pirates start sitting on a chokepoint, word will go out in the Militia channels pretty quickly and someone will show up to deal with the issue. My only real concern here is to do with sec hits in the process, and how willing players are to take them. If things work out nicely though, pirates are going to have a fairly hard time operating in the warzones and they may actually end up becoming some of the safest areas of lowsec for non-combatants. Hopefully the scheduled playtests will shed light on the matter.
Is there a reason why ccp is continuously trying to work against pirates/low sec warfare since '05?
|
Miasia
Federatin Navy Assistance
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 11:02:00 -
[244]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale With regard to general concerns about gatecamping, we're still waiting to see how this pans out in practice but the suspicion is that if five or ten pirates start sitting on a chokepoint, word will go out in the Militia channels pretty quickly and someone will show up to deal with the issue. My only real concern here is to do with sec hits in the process, and how willing players are to take them. If things work out nicely though, pirates are going to have a fairly hard time operating in the warzones and they may actually end up becoming some of the safest areas of lowsec for non-combatants. Hopefully the scheduled playtests will shed light on the matter.
The player which you hope to address through FW are not PvP orientated and have no expierence in busting gatecamps.
Those players who can do such stuff and are expierenced to do this are already pvping and are in alliances (most of them) or are pirating.
|
|
CCP Greyscale
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 11:12:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Chronos VIII Edited by: Chronos VIII on 16/05/2008 10:59:09
Originally by: CCP Greyscale With regard to general concerns about gatecamping, we're still waiting to see how this pans out in practice but the suspicion is that if five or ten pirates start sitting on a chokepoint, word will go out in the Militia channels pretty quickly and someone will show up to deal with the issue. My only real concern here is to do with sec hits in the process, and how willing players are to take them. If things work out nicely though, pirates are going to have a fairly hard time operating in the warzones and they may actually end up becoming some of the safest areas of lowsec for non-combatants. Hopefully the scheduled playtests will shed light on the matter.
Is there a reason why ccp is continuously trying to work against pirates/low sec warfare since '05?
I don't see it working against pirates - they're going to have a dangerous but extremely target-rich environment - and I certainly don't see how this is working against "low sec warfare"
|
|
Techkraft
Amarr Chickens with an Attitude No Law
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 11:19:00 -
[246]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale I don't see it working against pirates - they're going to have a dangerous but extremely target-rich environment - and I certainly don't see how this is working against "low sec warfare"
But do pirates differ (see part post above that I did) if they would join a faction?
If you are below -5 can you participate with the same rules of engagement to FW or not?
|
Victor Forge
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 11:19:00 -
[247]
Edited by: Victor Forge on 16/05/2008 11:20:29
Originally by: Chronos VIII
Is there a reason why ccp is continuously trying to work against pirates/low sec warfare since '05?
I have no idea what happend before 2007, but can you honestly say that low-sec is fine? A look at starmap "ships in space" shows clearly how much less players there are in low-sec compared to high-sec.
Greyscale is talking about the security hit, but I don¦t think the current system or removing the penalty is of any greater importance for players choise of staying in high-sec or not. Remove security hit, remove local for all I care, but do something about those damn low-sec Gatecamps! What use are Gateguns for if they can be tanked?
---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwaMHJzruDU&feature=related |
Khanto Thor
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 11:26:00 -
[248]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale With regard to general concerns about gatecamping, we're still waiting to see how this pans out in practice but the suspicion is that if five or ten pirates start sitting on a chokepoint, word will go out in the Militia channels pretty quickly and someone will show up to deal with the issue. My only real concern here is to do with sec hits in the process, and how willing players are to take them. If things work out nicely though, pirates are going to have a fairly hard time operating in the warzones and they may actually end up becoming some of the safest areas of lowsec for non-combatants. Hopefully the scheduled playtests will shed light on the matter.
Simple solution - Give sentry guns more clout or increase there numbers!
|
Andres Talas
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 11:36:00 -
[249]
So, Devs ... have you talked to Hardin yet ?
You have a problem.
Talk. To. The. Chin. With. The. Spin.
|
manasi
Caldari Ceptacemia Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 12:51:00 -
[250]
QFT, very good point m8
Originally by: Xofii You have locked out basically all ppl that are engaged in pvp atm, IE alliance bound, you have created great detriments for ppl who are pure highsec dwellers, IE no more highsec travel, and basically no rewards except the same as for all pvp or mish?
Who are you trying to attract?
//Xofii
|
|
Taishansu
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 12:53:00 -
[251]
Edited by: Taishansu on 16/05/2008 12:53:54 I've read over this whole thing and I'll see the test on Sisi and relevant dev blogs before I curse this thing to the bowels of heck.
I still believe and will always believe that you need to fix problems in game (i.e. pos warfare, blobs in 0.0, moons in drone regions as well as sec status there, balance out the agents etc etc etc) before you add new shiny things to distract people from the bigger problems like that "lag" problem.
Otherwise I'm interested in seeing how this works more in depth and detail. However, I agree with manasi. If you exclude anyone from this who is in an alliance then you won't get the results you want.
|
Aylara
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 13:33:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Miasia
The player which you hope to address through FW are not PvP orientated and have no expierence in busting gatecamps.
Those players who can do such stuff and are expierenced to do this are already pvping and are in alliances (most of them) or are pirating.
QTF. That's why the players that are in alliances should be able to join FW, at least as a single player. In this way, players new to PVP will have a good and easier way to learn how to be combat effective. One will always learn faster having good teammates and opponents. FW should not create easy targets for pirates.
It should be like it was in the Cold War. The 2 powerblocks where taking part in different conflicts without declaring war to each other. So a player from an alliance could help one of the factions without the need for the named alliance to declare war.
|
Doytard
Amarr the oNe Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 14:10:00 -
[253]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale With regard to general concerns about gatecamping, we're still waiting to see how this pans out in practice but the suspicion is that if five or ten pirates start sitting on a chokepoint, word will go out in the Militia channels pretty quickly and someone will show up to deal with the issue. My only real concern here is to do with sec hits in the process, and how willing players are to take them. If things work out nicely though, pirates are going to have a fairly hard time operating in the warzones and they may actually end up becoming some of the safest areas of lowsec for non-combatants. Hopefully the scheduled playtests will shed light on the matter.
but if a player is -5 or below, or has a global criminal flag aka a pirate. You can attack that player without a sec standing loss yourself right? if they don't have a global criminal or less than -5 sec status well they aren't really actively pirating are they? Hi how are you
|
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 14:15:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Ivar Strahm
EVE has always been the "hardcore" PvP game, where losing your ship means loss of ISK and time setting up a new ship. If factional warfare takes that away I'm afraid it will make the game a mere shell of what it used to be. Where will the adrenalin rush of jumping into low sec go if getting killed just means respawning at your chosen station with little or no actual loss?
It is a balancing act, one that CCP is already pretty compromised on,.. specifically, I'm sorry but the death pentlty is already no where near 'hard core'.. hard core is when, if you die, you die, your character is dead, start over with newbie SP. So anyway.
CCP has to balance the death penalty very carefully. Make it too generous and the game looses it's fun. Make it too harsh and the cost of dieing stops people from PvPing. I know my main reason for not doing PvP is the possibility of implant loss for instance. I loose my implants and that is another 6 months of grinding to replace them... not to mention the slowdown of skill progression during that period.
|
Samacia
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 15:09:00 -
[255]
Originally by: Nekopyat ... I loose my implants and that is another 6 months of grinding to replace them... not to mention the slowdown of skill progression during that period.
Jumpclone |
Hab0k
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 15:23:00 -
[256]
Edited by: Hab0k on 16/05/2008 15:29:49 Edited by: Hab0k on 16/05/2008 15:27:05 Can you tell zulupark to reply to his blog, i mean seriously...
and tell me why you are going to nerf nano's in future, it is not right, nanos can be stopped, people just need to know how. its simple. web us and pop us fast...
seriously. restore my interdictor or restore myskill points to the field of my choice.
oh yeah -mental note, gank that one guy who says he has good implants-
|
Manu Hermanus
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 15:49:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Samacia
Originally by: Nekopyat ... I loose my implants and that is another 6 months of grinding to replace them... not to mention the slowdown of skill progression during that period.
Jumpclone
dont pvp in a snake set, with 5%/7% implants?
i pvp in +5s
|
Oakrayven
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 15:49:00 -
[258]
Originally by: What CCP Greyscale said I don't see it working against pirates - they're going to have a dangerous but extremely target-rich environment - and I certainly don't see how this is working against "low sec warfare"
Originally by: What Low sec gankrats hears I see it working against pirates - they're going to have a dangerous and extremely Anti Gategank Pirate environment - and I certainly see how is working against "low sec warfare"
YAR!
|
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 15:52:00 -
[259]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale With regard to general concerns about gatecamping, we're still waiting to see how this pans out in practice but the suspicion is that if five or ten pirates start sitting on a chokepoint, word will go out in the Militia channels pretty quickly and someone will show up to deal with the issue. My only real concern here is to do with sec hits in the process, and how willing players are to take them. If things work out nicely though, pirates are going to have a fairly hard time operating in the warzones and they may actually end up becoming some of the safest areas of lowsec for non-combatants. Hopefully the scheduled playtests will shed light on the matter.
Hmm, I'm glad you guys are at least thinking about that issue, but valuable insights into the social behavior of players on tq is like the last thing I'd ever expect from sisi tests.
You could be right about FW particpants taking care of the problem theselves though. That would be the obvious ideal solution. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 16:13:00 -
[260]
Quote:
Jumpclone
*nods* I'm slowly working towards access to jump clones, but that 24 hour cool down period is a pain... reduced learning for 24 hours every time I want to PvP? that will quickly result in some pretty rare PvPing
Quote:
dont pvp in a snake set, with 5%/7% implants?
i pvp in +5s
Heh. I think you misunderstand how poor I am ^_~ I'm a casual player, as are many people. I can maybe get in 5 hours per week. Battleships are way outside my price range, and at a year old (and 10MISP) I'm STILL working on getting a full set of +4 implants. On a good month I can manage 30MISK (assuming no looses or buying other things).
With that kind of setup I can easily throw away T1 frigates and would happily risk them if not for worrying about poddeath.
If they reduced (say, to 1 hour) or elimited jumpclone cooldown that would probably do the trick. Hrm,.. I should suggest that in F&I
|
|
NoNameNewbie
Caldari Raynor Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 17:04:00 -
[261]
Originally by: CCP Greyscale With regard to general concerns about gatecamping, we're still waiting to see how this pans out in practice but the suspicion is that if five or ten pirates start sitting on a chokepoint, word will go out in the Militia channels pretty quickly and someone will show up to deal with the issue. My only real concern here is to do with sec hits in the process, and how willing players are to take them. If things work out nicely though, pirates are going to have a fairly hard time operating in the warzones and they may actually end up becoming some of the safest areas of lowsec for non-combatants. Hopefully the scheduled playtests will shed light on the matter.
u realize that this in eve doesnt work ?
I mean, i once was mission running in otsasai. While running missions there was no problem for me (well 2 pirates at a random gate arent a problem) they were camping the Vourrassi(0.5) to Nalvula(lowsec) gate. 2 of em, 2 in BS. Vourassi local, had like 15 ppl complaining about the pirates camping the gate ...
u see ?
Tbh i think in its current form FW will just be a 5 day roflcopter. Once introduced, ****loads of bored 0.0 ppl will run in, 2 days carnage blobbing/nanofagging the **** outta everything, 3 day cooldown, everyone back in highsec runnign missions. Epic win for the game ...
|
Kappas.
Galaxy Punks Black Core Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 18:02:00 -
[262]
I don't know if it's been replied to elsewhere so forgive me if it has...
How is joining/leaving these militias handled? Once you make your original choice is that it, or can you switch sides like a maximum once every 7 days or something?
__________________
Recruitment temporarily closed. |
Miana Amannar
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 20:37:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Miana Amannar on 16/05/2008 20:41:48
Originally by: Andres Talas So, Devs ... have you talked to Hardin yet ?
You have a problem.
Talk. To. The. Chin. With. The. Spin.
Buddy, you really p*ss me off now with this constant crap. It seems YOU have a problem!
Are you Hardin's ALT - or how much does he pay you ?
On topic:
Jeez people, I've never seen so many groundless assumptions as in this thread. I agree the info we got so far is a bit thin but can't you just wait until there's more before you start to whine?
Originally by: Nekopyat
If they reduced (say, to 1 hour) or elimited jumpclone cooldown that would probably do the trick. Hrm,.. I should suggest that in F&I
Save your time - this will never happen - and rightly so. Noone would have to fly anywhere anymore (especially through dangerous areas), just clone-jump. 24 h is just right!!
|
000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 21:05:00 -
[264]
ok, now.. it's prolly me but.. except for the part of we getting a few more systems, whats the point really? u get pvp missions??? well i hope follow up blogs will explain and enlighten us a bit further cuz atm i think it's a waste of dev time cuz it will only attract those who have an active interest in direct ship to ship pvp allready and it will do nothing for the huge group of people in empire who arn't interested in the direct ship to ship pvp at all, sofar what i've read i can't find anything that would motivate those to suddenly get up and do pvp. _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
|
Da'Neth
Gallente Federation Zone Operations Command
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 21:38:00 -
[265]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 ok, now.. it's prolly me but.. except for the part of we getting a few more systems, whats the point really? u get pvp missions??? well i hope follow up blogs will explain and enlighten us a bit further cuz atm i think it's a waste of dev time cuz it will only attract those who have an active interest in direct ship to ship pvp allready and it will do nothing for the huge group of people in empire who arn't interested in the direct ship to ship pvp at all, sofar what i've read i can't find anything that would motivate those to suddenly get up and do pvp.
this is why we need the next blog.
BTW whare the frack is it????? --------- Beware my friends, as you pass by As you are now so once was I As I'm now so you must be Prepare my friends to follow me |
Major Death
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 21:52:00 -
[266]
Quote: this is why we need the next blog.
BTW whare the frack is it?????
Another example of CCP failing at communication with its players.
My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;) CCP say 'Shut up about bugs and eat your eye candy!' |
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.05.16 23:06:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Miana Amannar
Save your time - this will never happen - and rightly so. Noone would have to fly anywhere anymore (especially through dangerous areas), just clone-jump. 24 h is just right!!
*shrug* then there will be people who won't PvP because of it.
Unless PvP content generates enough ISK to cover the loss of implants it took me months of scrimping and saving to buy (i.e. risk vs reward) or has a low hassle way to protect those investment, then it isn't going to be worth it for me and many others.
|
Miana Amannar
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 00:36:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Ammath So is there going to be any 'compensation' like there was when static plexes were popped for people who moved to systems/areas specifically to the characteristics of the system(s) in question? I mean it doesn't just affect w-4 it makes pretty much all of our space one big pipeline.
The problem is that there are obviously better places to attach to CR... popping the only dead-end ice field system into a superhighway, and one the only deadend in the region worth anything besides XZH station its obviously questionable mechanics..
Also attaching it so close to the placid gate when BR already has a placid gate is kinda weird... who not make it closer to the Fade or PB or Syndicate games in CR?
It just seems dodgy...
Buddy, don't worry Until the patch is out you won't be there anymore
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 06:18:00 -
[269]
Ya where is the dev blog...
|
JAME5 KIRK
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 08:09:00 -
[270]
im a little confused on how the soverienty will work,. will it be any hi sec that can be worked on, just low sec , just teh warzones ? if someone would enlighten me, its early and i have a hangover..
|
|
PeHD0M
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 08:24:00 -
[271]
So what we have:
- free pvp in highsec between those who take part in FW. Seems like constant corp offwar, but you dont have to pay taxes and there is no CEO with stupid decisions. I think it is good.
- fight over control points in lowsec to change soverenty, gain ranks and maybe some reward. Offcourse if these contol points will have any value means camp blobs of death 24\7. That is not so bad, but imo if you have to go through gatecamp, ship type limitanion for entering "pvp deadspace" is useless. There is no sense of allowing there T1 frigates only, if you have to pass hac-bs camp.
my suggestion is: - create those contol point in high sec too
- you can take contol over system only if this system connected to atleast one "captured" system
- timer for capturing system is from DT to DT
- if your faction capture system (take contol points and constantly destroying enemy npc), soverenty change and NPC ships changed to your faction NPC (wich attack your faction enemies).
If you implement this, we will see a REAL war!(not just simulation in lowsec and some pew-pew in highsec). So we get:
- Real war, where someone wins and someone lose.
- more RP (2caldary: you will have ability to take back caldary prime .. or lose jita)
- this will not hurt neutral players, because this dont touch their assets on stations.
- pos owners simply use charts of another type
|
Jason Edwards
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 12:15:00 -
[272]
Way back basically a year ago the privateers were an alliance which allowed corps to basically come to the alliance, pay some fees because wardecs cost money. This allowed the corps to have loads of war targets basically everywhere.
The reason they got smacked down was because their war targets werent working together while privateers had alliance chat at least for intel. Giving an imbalance which needed to be balanced :)
Enter FW same thing, free war targets, balanced intel. Plus some rich RP and focused areas to actually fight over.
Quote: - free pvp in highsec between those who take part in FW. Seems like constant corp offwar, but you dont have to pay taxes and there is no CEO with stupid decisions. I think it is good.
There will be no doubt have gang leaders and such which form. Perhaps ranks even come into account for that.
Quote: - fight over control points in lowsec to change soverenty, gain ranks and maybe some reward. Offcourse if these contol points will have any value means camp blobs of death 24\7. That is not so bad, but imo if you have to go through gatecamp, ship type limitanion for entering "pvp deadspace" is useless. There is no sense of allowing there T1 frigates only, if you have to pass hac-bs camp. my suggestion is: - create those contol point in high sec too
as far as i understand it they have.
Quote: - you can take contol over system only if this system connected to atleast one "captured" system
I think there's more of a you control over here and there will be those which are in flux and are being under conflict and all that. I don't think this is all that necessary.
Quote: - timer for capturing system is from DT to DT
They have tested and in 1 week we shall test it on sisi. I'm sure the timer will be appropriate.
Quote: If you implement this, we will see a REAL war!(not just simulation in lowsec and some pew-pew in highsec). So we get: - Real war, where someone wins and someone lose.
I wouldn't really discount the wars and conflicts in 0.0 for sovereignty.I would say those are pretty good wars also.
Quote: - more RP (2caldary: you will have ability to take back caldary prime Wink.. or lose jita)
Nah Caldari prime and such really would be protected by moms and titans and everything like mad. Fleets which are epic. Fleets which would make 0.0 alliances sweat buckets.
|
Oakrayven
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 21:01:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Da'Neth
Originally by: 000Hunter000 ok, now.. it's prolly me but.. except for the part of we getting a few more systems, whats the point really? u get pvp missions??? well i hope follow up blogs will explain and enlighten us a bit further cuz atm i think it's a waste of dev time cuz it will only attract those who have an active interest in direct ship to ship pvp allready and it will do nothing for the huge group of people in empire who arn't interested in the direct ship to ship pvp at all, sofar what i've read i can't find anything that would motivate those to suddenly get up and do pvp.
this is why we need the next blog.
BTW whare the frack is it?????
I think they were caught offguard by the reaction, seriously between the underwhelming yawn of indiference from some people, the sarcasm from others, and the open hostility from the rest, Im suspecting they were not ready for what they got.
Seriously, there are, maybee, a few positive coments so far? Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not Paranoid enough to play EVE.
|
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.05.17 22:44:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Oakrayven Seriously, there are, maybee, a few positive coments so far?
When there is more rumor then information this is pretty normal. Comments will probalby become more positive after people get to play with it a bit (like the test server today) and get their worst case fears addressed.
Now, why is this normal? When given a blank slate people will do one of two things,.. read their hopes into it or read their fears into it. Given how the last few patches have gone many people will read fear into the unknown since lately the unknown has been a negative thing.
What CCP is probably doing is trying to weigh needing to get the dev blog out quickly vs making sure the next blog doesn't cause more problems. It is also possible that since they were pushing for a saturday test then the developers had actual work to do (read: thrash and panic) and thus a PR blog took a lower priority.
|
Ranger 1
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 02:47:00 -
[275]
Now here is an interesting question that I hope will be answered either here or in future blogs:
If several corps involved in Factional Warfare penetrate into 0.0 to kill existing POS's, destroy existing sov, and put up the requisite number of their own POS's.... will they in fact be able to claim Sov in 0.0 space for their empire Faction?
|
Oakrayven
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 03:28:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Nekopyat
Originally by: Oakrayven Seriously, there are, maybee, a few positive coments so far?
When there is more rumor then information this is pretty normal. Comments will probalby become more positive after people get to play with it a bit (like the test server today) and get their worst case fears addressed.
Now, why is this normal? When given a blank slate people will do one of two things,.. read their hopes into it or read their fears into it. Given how the last few patches have gone many people will read fear into the unknown since lately the unknown has been a negative thing.
What CCP is probably doing is trying to weigh needing to get the dev blog out quickly vs making sure the next blog doesn't cause more problems. It is also possible that since they were pushing for a saturday test then the developers had actual work to do (read: thrash and panic) and thus a PR blog took a lower priority.
oh I am aware of that, Ive donethis since UO and Pre ROK EQ and I am also a bit of an intermitent EVE player. I remeber the early skeptisism that surounded Invention for example, but I think that was more of a freindly skeptisism than what I am seeing now, this time it feels more hostile, and to be honest, I have a hard time disagreeing with most of the critisism,. Trust Aura. Aura is Your Friend.
If your too paranoid to play EVE. . .
Then your not Paranoid enough to play EVE.
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 10:54:00 -
[277]
I'm trying to keep an open mind about FW, but it's becoming harder and harder to do, the more information I get.
Yet again, it's looking to be a massive disappointment. So far the outline of FW is basically PVP oriented missions in low sec space, and a free empire war for those in high sec, along with some sort of hand holding for the carebears so that they won't lose any precious ISK or items.
I see this going the direction of low-sec missions: no one but pirates are going to occupy low-sec space, and no new players will be migrating into low-sec, as their death rate will be fairly similar to what exists now: nearly 100%.
The FW rewards will have to be *massive* in order to entice anyone into low-sec due to the risk created by players who are actually experienced PVPers (i.e. pirates). I really don't think that much will happen with respect to FW players fighting in low-sec, as the pirates will be killing both sides off, killing them at gates, and camping the hell out of their mission objectives (combat beacons or w/e).
One of the devs *specifically* said that the risk of player pirates doesn't justify massively increased rewards from FW missions/objectives in low-sec. If that's the case, then just what does CCP think will entice players who don't want to be in low-sec now into doing it once FW is in place?
The only thing that will increase population in low-sec is to radically increase the rewards, or completely remove the risk. Otherwise there is no reason for any of the carebears to change from what they're doing now.
Another note: FW combat areas that allow MWDs and no gate guns = nano hell. In some respects it's going to bring 0.0 style combat to low-sec, which is a bad thing. Nanos suck.
Any FW pilots in low sec, assuming they make it past the generic gate camps (which I really don't see happening) will be probed out and killed just as quickly as any mission runner is. Probably faster in fact, particularly if these FW deadspace exploration sites are near celestial objects (which it sounds like they will be, if they're similar to existing exploration sites).
Personally FW really doesn't affect me too much, in that I'm a pirate and I'll just be killing anyone/everyone who pops up on my overview. But I'm still disappointed to learn that so many man hours of time and effort have been invested in something that is looking like it will turn out to be yet another luke warm feature that doesn't really contribute much to the game, when the time could have been better spent on other things. Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Major Death
Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 12:19:00 -
[278]
I am looking foward to Pirates wiping out gangs of Carebare FW'ers. Possibly the best laugh to be had in EVE for years!
Of course CCP will be scratching their heads at this going 'but numbers alone should confer advantage'
My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;) CCP say 'Shut up about bugs and eat your eye candy!' |
Comander Brenni
The Funhouse
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 12:39:00 -
[279]
Awsome it is incredible how jugemetal some players is.... This aspekt of EVE is going to be awsome Keep up the awsome worck CCP. Is is any chance that yopu will allow capitalships back in hi sec? because that woud make this war even more enjoiable for the brave soals homb can see the bautey in factional warfare!
|
Da'Neth
Gallente Federation Zone Operations Command
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 13:30:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Oakrayven oh I am aware of that, Ive donethis since UO and Pre ROK EQ and I am also a bit of an intermitent EVE player. I remeber the early skeptisism that surounded Invention for example, but I think that was more of a freindly skeptisism than what I am seeing now, this time it feels more hostile, and to be honest, I have a hard time disagreeing with most of the critisism,.[/quote
most of the negative and hostile stuff I am seeing seems to be comeing from players in the big RP alliances. or from thoes that just like to gank noobs, not from the players that want to be in FW and have more fair PVP.
I mean if you are in FW you know what you will get. its not like FW corps will be full of miners.
I for one am looking forword to FW. I think it will be a good boost to eve. we just need more info on. that is the only thing I am not happy about at the moment is we were told we wuld get another blog on it and still nothing. --------- Beware my friends, as you pass by As you are now so once was I As I'm now so you must be Prepare my friends to follow me |
|
Krathos Morpheus
Gallente Gates of nim
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 17:54:00 -
[281]
Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 18/05/2008 18:32:59 Edited by: Krathos Morpheus on 18/05/2008 17:58:55
This More info in this minisite
The blog should have been published before.
EVE Knowledge |
Krathos Morpheus
Gallente Gates of nim
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 18:24:00 -
[282]
Also, here is the liveblog.
EVE Knowledge |
Hab0k
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 18:35:00 -
[283]
Do you have any plans for speed? and anti speed?
|
Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 02:11:00 -
[284]
/me writhes in pain and anticipation over next devblogs
ccp why do you torture us with hints of dev blogs
|
Richard Garriott
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 04:26:00 -
[285]
So how bout dem devblogs
|
Yon Krum
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 05:20:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
*snip highly relevant and thoughtful points, aligned with my own thoughts*
I really don't think that much will happen with respect to FW players fighting in low-sec, as the pirates will be killing both sides off, killing them at gates, and camping the hell out of their mission objectives (combat beacons or w/e).
Any FW pilots in low sec, assuming they make it past the generic gate camps (which I really don't see happening) will be probed out and killed just as quickly as any mission runner is. Probably faster in fact, particularly if these FW deadspace exploration sites are near celestial objects (which it sounds like they will be, if they're similar to existing exploration sites).
Actually, from the live dev blog, they'll be even worse then the trivially easy probing of mission-runners. When you have a FW mission, and go to the mission site, it puts a beacon on the overview for EVERYONE to see. That means you will constantly have people (allies, enemies, and pirates) warping in on you while you attempt to finish the mission. In other words--bring a large gang, and pray.
For the specific FW system sites, they will have gates limited to certain ship sizes, but will otherwise also show up on the overview. So... there is no probing needed to find the missions--just to find the safespots people use in-between them.
*snip*
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Another note: FW combat areas that allow MWDs and no gate guns = nano hell. In some respects it's going to bring 0.0 style combat to low-sec, which is a bad thing. Nanos suck.
Nanos can be countered, but as I understand it (lack of experience, here), the learning-curve is very steep and expensive as you attempt to do so. So yes... nano hell--at least for the very people CCP wants to draw into more PvP.
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Personally FW really doesn't affect me too much, in that I'm a pirate and I'll just be killing anyone/everyone who pops up on my overview. But I'm still disappointed to learn that so many man hours of time and effort have been invested in something that is looking like it will turn out to be yet another luke warm feature that doesn't really contribute much to the game, when the time could have been better spent on other things.
Well... agreed, generally. My expectation is that this whole low-sec region will be no-go for anyone unaligned, as the default policy due to pirates will quickly become NBSI.
That said, and even given the industrial-sized holes we've pointed out to date, I am hoping that further dev blogs fill them in in a satisfactory manner, and that the testing that still remains to be done will shine a spotlight on the compensation/motivation issue.
I fear, however, that after about a month of pew-pew fun, participation will nose-dive and those very miners and mission-runners whom CCP wants to expose to the "PvP rush" will look at their dwindling bankroll and go back to more profitable and less masochistic ways of blowing their time.
EVE is harsh. If you don't want to coddle people, you have to compensate them. We'll see.
--Krum |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn Tenth Legion
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 09:59:00 -
[287]
Originally by: Yon Krum If you don't want to coddle people, you have to compensate them.
Not only compensate, but you also need an incentive to draw people in. Looking at my corp I wonder if anyone would feel tempted to leave high sec and begin to engage in FW since there seems to be a lot of risk involved and precious little tangible rewards. For some getting an official title or a medal or whatever might be enough, but overall everything in EVE is pretty much governed by the question "How many ISK will that make me?".
Then there's the blob question. The only thing that currently discourages blobbing is Doomsdays and bombs. PvP at the moment is about fielding the biggest blob, and I see nothing in the currently available informations that changes that.
The next thing that worries me about FW is the distribution of player allegiances right now. There seems to be a huge imbalance of people aligned towards Caldari compared to the other races (let's leave the discussion why aside), and if we assume a similar distribution of players interested in FW the Caldari will pretty much overrun everything. I see nothing that is going to influence that. Even if the perception is skewed, what counts is the perception of the players, not the actual fact. I fear that a lot of players will go "No sense in joining FW on any side but Caldari, after all Caldari outnumber and will outblob anyone else all the time". That way the perception becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy and FW will die down sooner or later.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 10:04:00 -
[288]
Originally by: Yon Krum -snip-
--Krum
Yeah, sadly, I concur with all of your points. I'm in a wait and see mode myself, but it doesn't look good. And yes, I also noted the comment about the beacons, but AFAIK, those are for missions in particular, not the exploration sites. The two are seperate/different.
IMO the rewards for lowsec should be just as good as deep 0.0, because once you jump into 0.4 or less, the risk is 100% the same as any -1.0 true sec system. Anyway, I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir on this one. I really like Eve. I'm very passionate about it, and that's why I'm so disappointed so often when stuff just doesn't measure up. Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y Owing to lack of Eve-related content, signature removed. If you would like to discuss this, please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Miasia
Federatin Navy Assistance
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 12:06:00 -
[289]
I'm looking forward for the new dev blog(s).
Currently we have only the live dev blog which gave us basic information. We all know eve and how the players using its features and i'm thinking our extrapolation from the given input is relativly near the true features of FW. Maybe some details which are missing, but i think the most maybe correct.
|
station jockey
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 20:55:00 -
[290]
What will happen to POSes with system sec status-sensitive mods (moon harvester, reactor, large ship assembly array) when a system goes from 0.3 to 0.4 or 0.4 to 0.5 under the FW system, assuming such changes occur as one faction gains tighter and tighter control over a disputed system? Will POSes offline if they don't have charters in their fuel bay when the system security status changes? |
|
Slugsnott
|
Posted - 2008.05.19 21:42:00 -
[291]
HEllo!
I wanted to add something Im sure the patch is coming out really soon! but..
I think it would be cool if faction ships could start using jump gates!
Example:: a mesage would come in your HUD like a trafic advisory, by the faction ships gaurding the gate. such as The Sarum like in amarr space. saying "Warning Gate activation enimys inbound"! Then a Mission mesage would come up and ask if you would like to help.
And to make the battle look more real for people who just got there instead of just wrecks both sides would deal Exstreamly low damage to eathother leveing most everything up to other players in the system. Of course this would be comepleatly randome, so it could be posable for this to happen in a dead system with no players in Which case... after 15min of no player Ineraction the battle would automaticly stop.
Another cool feature that would be Most interesting is if Faction ships Were seen in asteroid belts mining.
My idea was the belt would be reconfigured so it looked like a Miners Dream of a mining op. a station warehouse setup in the middle of the belt. 2 sentry gunz some faction mining Barges mining away "but not Really taking any ore". And a talkable agent floating in space with that little icon above its head. Which would give you an opertunity to join in the fun and at the same time get system points and Faction points, for the corporation or faction he belongs to. Everyone knows mining by yourself sucks.
Well Ill eleave you with these ideas.... I already know the patch is more then done.. but maybe you can incloud these things in the next boost patch
|
Tammarr
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 00:22:00 -
[292]
Edited by: Tammarr on 20/05/2008 00:22:19 Ye what realy got me thinking lately is as explained by a poster above to. What are the rewards, its very high risk, few will say the risk involved in lowsec and going into lowsec to Pvp is not higher then 0.0 and what are the rewards? A badge? that badge will not buy me a new ship, or five as I'am highly likely to lose. Go do missions? Might aswell be in 0.0 and learn pvp directly, or take the university classes. All far better ways of getting to the bucks and explosions then going to the pirates new playground.
|
Kalintos Tyl
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 08:39:00 -
[293]
-free ships -agents "teleport" you directly to combat site
that system would win, but well it wont happen.
|
Blank Protection
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2008.05.20 17:23:00 -
[294]
One simply question. Whats the date that this all will going to be implemented. Because i got a strong feeling this is going to take at least a 48 hour DT.
**This post belongs in Out of Pod Experience** |
Druadan
Aristotle Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.05.21 17:39:00 -
[295]
Edited by: Druadan on 21/05/2008 17:42:08 I don't think most people are going to give a crap about PvP instances to fight over lowsec. Fighting over highsec, now that would be cool. I think factional warfare is going to be more of a business opportunity for me than a combat one, though I will also be leading my brave capsuleers into kicking the ever-loving sh!znizzle (that makes sizzle if you bizzle) out of some Caldari scum. I don't think I'll be bothering with this lowsec battlegrounds majiggish though.
(P.S. 's h i z' is censored. That's a pretty overcomprehensive censor list there.) - Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Maris Falcone
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 21:12:00 -
[296]
Edited by: Maris Falcone on 25/05/2008 21:15:29 Edited by: Maris Falcone on 25/05/2008 21:14:52 A candid overview from a forum alt for a character that lives in deep null sec but is thinking of coming back to empire for a time (long story, see COAD if you really care). This is a modification of a Forum post debating weather or not to join in on corporate wide FW. MY assertions are:
1) Good null sec training (not typical to me) as opposing militias will be gate camping Jita, Hel/Hek, Rens, Jel, Amarr, Tash-Murken etc. So you will have hisec freighter runs complete with webbing ships to insta warp and BS escorts. The pirates will be in heaven! 2) potentially significant impact on a mixed corp of industrial / pvp. Null sec disciplines will be required in high sec. 3) POS ware fare brought to high sec. Industrial players will setup hisec death stars in their mining (and probably mission running) hot spots. 4) damning impact on missing running -- we all know a mission setup ship can't pvp. And most folks don't have the skill to solo a lvl 4 in a pvp ship. Militias will be ganking opposing militias in hisec mission areas. You will need an out of corp alt to enjoy missions.
Here is my overview I have generated from this thread and the live dev blog:
Check out the devblog: http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=558
Listen to minutes 23:00 to 25:00 regarding how care bears will be forced to pvp or be a target for opposing militias - even in high sec. Minutes 27:30 to 30:00 on "hybrid Deadspace" - yes mwd, no cyano or cap ships inside the majority of battle fields 32:30 to 34:30 how grieving is handled; daily standings check will remove grievers from factional warfare because of standings loss 34:45 to 37:00 will Factional warfare extend to hi-sec or null-sec? Yes - between militias only. http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=560
and then the key dev postings - warfare everywhere if you or your corp joins: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=771041&page=1#10 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=771041&page=1#27 regarding pirate gate camps; anti-pirate; etc: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=771041&page=5#149 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=771041&page=6#158 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=771041&page=7#181 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=771041&page=9#249 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=771041&page=9#252
So my question is this to the devs: Am I wrong? Will a mixed corp find hisec has become null sec in terms of risk? Will militia be able opposing militias in hisec? How will you handle the hisec gate camps that will start forming? Imagine it, Freighter kills in jita without the risk of being conkorded!
All that said, for those of you who have never lived under null sec disapline (how to mine with reds about, how to flee to the nearest pos, etc) this will likely teach you what need to know about null sec, land holding, alliance living.
Marris Falcone |
Plan Neun
Ganja Unlimited CORE.
|
Posted - 2008.05.25 22:16:00 -
[297]
Edited by: Plan Neun on 25/05/2008 22:17:33
Originally by: CCP Lingorm Factional warfare is not just in Low-sec. It is just concentrated there.
If you sign up for a faction you can be attacked by anyone in opposing factions anywhere. it is that in low-sec we have marked out control points which will bring the combat to them making it easier for you to find and take part in.
You can sign up as an individual or you can sigh your entire corp up to fight for a faction.
In our corp Gallente standing is really bad since we have Alliance Commitment we can not at time being join the Militia. But do we have the same combat priveligies as the Caldari Militia towards those sworn alligiance to the Froggies Federation?
In other words is it possible to give a hand without fully personal or corp commitment in this war?
CEO Plan Neun
"I cut your head off and put it in my TV-Set"
|
Damned Force
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2008.05.26 07:57:00 -
[298]
I tried the FW on SiSi yesterday. Im there part of the caldari militia and warped to the bunker in gallente space to check out what is and how works. Lag was extreme......Grid loaded and i saw a real capital fleet batlle.
My question is.... would that work so on TQ too? because than the whole important points would be camped by big, hardcore pvp corporations and by capital fleets 23/7 to get killmails and would no chance to have real fun.....
Is there any reason why the peoples would not camp this points by MS's, Dreads and 50+ support fleet?
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 :: [one page] |