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[Issue] Votes of No Confidence in CSM Director

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cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 19:59:00 - [91] Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 19:59:36 Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: cimmaron Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 19:54:39 Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Originally by: cimmaron The problem is when the members try to use the council to advance their own corp or alliances goals(such as goon wanting to be able to jump their caps in and out at will.) If I saw people making suggestions that didnt benifit their goals, and actually were unbiased, I may agree with you. Please link me to the thread where I made this proposal. im pretty shure that i didnt say you made that suggestion. One of your members did, in the other thread over ran by goon's in this little area we got here, shouldnt be too hard to find. Its the one where they want JB's and Cyno Jammers nerfed into uselesness for defenders, wich would largely benifit goons by the return of 100 cap pos fleet reinforcing entire constellations, and hoping to god someone misses the timer to add stront, and late night alarm clock ops, all of us vets remember those days. So, yes, what I am saying isnt completly unfounded now is it? csm members should only be in NPC corps so they aren't influenced by their buddies in their space guilds tbqh See, now that actually makes a little but of sense, but only if its for all accounts they own to include alts, and they sign an agreement with CCP not to join a player owned corp during their term.
PartyPopper GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:04:00 - [92] Originally by: cimmaron See, now that actually makes a little but of sense, but only if its for all accounts they own to include alts, and they sign an agreement with CCP not to join a player owned corp during their term. oh yeah this would solve all our problems
OldPueblo DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:06:00 - [93] Edited by: OldPueblo on 23/05/2008 20:06:20 I'm looking for the blind assumptions and generalizations thread, did I find it?
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:12:00 - [94] Originally by: OldPueblo Edited by: OldPueblo on 23/05/2008 20:06:20 I'm looking for the blind assumptions and generalizations thread, did I find it? No, you found the goon blind support and ruin eve in every way possible thread, move along.
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:12:00 - [95] Originally by: OldPueblo Edited by: OldPueblo on 23/05/2008 20:06:20 I'm looking for the blind assumptions and generalizations thread, did I find it? :hi5: You've arrived sir
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:15:00 - [96] Originally by: cimmaron Originally by: OldPueblo Edited by: OldPueblo on 23/05/2008 20:06:20 I'm looking for the blind assumptions and generalizations thread, did I find it? No, you found the goon blind support and ruin eve in every way possible thread, move along. You've gotten the answer to every question you've asked. If you want to play internet psychic regarding their intentions or question them perhaps you should use the proper thread? If you want to continue to debate the intentions or whatever of Goonswarm I'm happy to do so but blind generalized statements are not a discussion. They're blind generalized statements completely lacking in fact.
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:19:00 - [97] Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 20:21:06 Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Originally by: cimmaron Originally by: OldPueblo Edited by: OldPueblo on 23/05/2008 20:06:20 I'm looking for the blind assumptions and generalizations thread, did I find it? No, you found the goon blind support and ruin eve in every way possible thread, move along. You've gotten the answer to every question you've asked. If you want to play internet psychic regarding their intentions or question them perhaps you should use the proper thread? If you want to continue to debate the intentions or whatever of Goonswarm I'm happy to do so but blind generalized statements are not a discussion. They're blind generalized statements completely lacking in fact. Really, heres the unanswered questions thus far: 1. If goon is not trying to seize control of the council then who would they like to see, other than a goon, or alliance member, lead the council. 2.What reason, other than to benifit themselves by the return of midnight cap raids and then jump home, are they asking for cyno jammer and JB changes. 3.What suggestion has been made by any goonfleet csm, or hell even member, that didnt work to their sole benifit. Those are the questions still not answered btw.
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:21:00 - [98] Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 23/05/2008 20:22:10 Originally by: cimmaron Really, heres the unanswered questions thus far: 1. If goon is not trying to seize control of the council then who would they like to see, other than a good, or alliance member, lead the council. 2.What reason, other than to benifit themselves by the return of midnight cap raids and then jump home, are they asking for cyno jammer and JB changes. 3.What suggestion has been made by any goonfleet csm, or hell even member, that didnt work to their sole benifit. Those are the questions still not answered btw. 1. Already answered. Read thread. 2. Already answered. You'd have to ask the people who proposed it. Perhaps the thread it was proposed in would be the proper place to receive a response? 3. Also already answered. None. I've made no proposals and any made by Goons seem to be for the benefit of everyone. The jammer proposal also seems to enjoy some varied support...
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:32:00 - [99] /quote] 1. Already answered. Read thread. 2. Already answered. You'd have to ask the people who proposed it. Perhaps the thread it was proposed in would be the proper place to receive a response? 3. Also already answered. None. I've made no proposals and any made by Goons seem to be for the benefit of everyone. The jammer proposal also seems to enjoy some varied support... How exactly is making it harder for small alliances to defend their space, the return of midnight alarm ops, and month long sov wars to everyones benifit? Simple answer it isnt. JB's and Cyno Jammers were put in place to give smaller alliances and coalitions a fighting chance to compete for 0.0 sov, which is exactly what it did. Sorry if you guys are a little butt hurt that you cant jump your cap fleet in and out of a well defended system with impunity. So again, I would love nothing more than to beleive that you, and your cohorts would make good reprisentitives of the player base, but thus far that is very false. Its all good and fine that you can get goonswarm in here to check the block on goon threads, but honestly, if I saw one, even one suggestion that didnt benifit Goon more than it hurt other people, I would be shocked. Would be even more shocked if goon backed something that was fair, and about balance rather than about griefing and ganking, sorry thats the way of it.
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:38:00 - [100] Originally by: cimmaron Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 19:59:36 Originally by: Phelan Driscoll csm members should only be in NPC corps so they aren't influenced by their buddies in their space guilds tbqh See, now that actually makes a little but of sense, but only if its for all accounts they own to include alts, and they sign an agreement with CCP not to join a player owned corp during their term. Wouldn't CSM members also have to have their MSM/AIM accounts monitored by CCP to make sure there wasn't any untoward contact between CSM members and their former comrades? snip Signature is totally inappropriate and not allowed on EvE Forums. Contact us at [email protected] if you have any queries - Valorem
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:40:00 - [101] Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: cimmaron Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 19:59:36 Originally by: Phelan Driscoll csm members should only be in NPC corps so they aren't influenced by their buddies in their space guilds tbqh See, now that actually makes a little but of sense, but only if its for all accounts they own to include alts, and they sign an agreement with CCP not to join a player owned corp during their term. Wouldn't CSM members also have to have their MSM/AIM accounts monitored by CCP to make sure there wasn't any untoward contact between CSM members and their former comrades? Would be easier to just boot them when it became obvious their intentions were to do nothing more than benifit their buddies?
Farrqua Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:46:00 - [102] Originally by: cimmaron /quote] 1. Already answered. Read thread. 2. Already answered. You'd have to ask the people who proposed it. Perhaps the thread it was proposed in would be the proper place to receive a response? 3. Also already answered. None. I've made no proposals and any made by Goons seem to be for the benefit of everyone. The jammer proposal also seems to enjoy some varied support... How exactly is making it harder for small alliances to defend their space, the return of midnight alarm ops, and month long sov wars to everyones benifit? Simple answer it isnt. JB's and Cyno Jammers were put in place to give smaller alliances and coalitions a fighting chance to compete for 0.0 sov, which is exactly what it did. Sorry if you guys are a little butt hurt that you cant jump your cap fleet in and out of a well defended system with impunity. So again, I would love nothing more than to beleive that you, and your cohorts would make good reprisentitives of the player base, but thus far that is very false. Its all good and fine that you can get goonswarm in here to check the block on goon threads, but honestly, if I saw one, even one suggestion that didnt benifit Goon more than it hurt other people, I would be shocked. Would be even more shocked if goon backed something that was fair, and about balance rather than about griefing and ganking, sorry thats the way of it. I see you can not separate your self from the game and it is very apparent your vitriol is of a personal nature. You keep trolling your in game prejudices to clutter this forum. With your personal emotional vendetta, you are not helping or contributing in any constructive way. If you want to continue this, log in and keep it in game or post this kind of crap in CAOD. It fits best there. If you feel the Goons are the evil incarnate then declare war on them and beat them in game. In this setting we are to move forward in the improving of the game and not debating politics. The panel is made of a diverse and dynamic individuals that will maintain the checks and balances. And CCP will yank anyone off the board if they do not comply with set rules.
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:46:00 - [103] Originally by: cimmaron Originally by: Phelan Driscoll Originally by: cimmaron Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 19:59:36 Originally by: Phelan Driscoll csm members should only be in NPC corps so they aren't influenced by their buddies in their space guilds tbqh See, now that actually makes a little but of sense, but only if its for all accounts they own to include alts, and they sign an agreement with CCP not to join a player owned corp during their term. Wouldn't CSM members also have to have their MSM/AIM accounts monitored by CCP to make sure there wasn't any untoward contact between CSM members and their former comrades? Would be easier to just boot them when it became obvious their intentions were to do nothing more than benifit their buddies? I don't know. It's pretty easy for a smart person to cloak their true intentions and simply have everybody else issue denial after denial. snip Signature is totally inappropriate and not allowed on EvE Forums. Contact us at [email protected] if you have any queries - Valorem
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:48:00 - [104] Originally by: cimmaron Sorry if you guys are a little butt hurt that you cant jump your cap fleet in and out of a well defended system with impunity. What cap fleet. Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:49:00 - [105] I don't know. It's pretty easy for a smart person to cloak their true intentions and simply have everybody else issue denial after denial. Not really as easy as youd like to think.
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:51:00 - [106] Originally by: Dramaticus Originally by: cimmaron Sorry if you guys are a little butt hurt that you cant jump your cap fleet in and out of a well defended system with impunity. What cap fleet. Oh I dont know, I remember seeing 25ish caps in m-m the other day, and im being nice and trying to underquote it. All of em goon, assault a JB, so I guess it wasnt that big of a stop gap that you guys are complaining about eh?
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:52:00 - [107] Originally by: cimmaron Would be easier to just boot them when it became obvious their intentions were to do nothing more than benifit their buddies? Yes, we should just boot everyone from the council because there's obviously a reason they want to be on there. Only people who dont want to be on there should be allowed on there. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:54:00 - [108] Originally by: Yorda Originally by: cimmaron Would be easier to just boot them when it became obvious their intentions were to do nothing more than benifit their buddies? Yes, we should just boot everyone from the council because there's obviously a reason they want to be on there. Only people who dont want to be on there should be allowed on there. See, yet again, I have to spell it out in ABC's for the learning impaired, If a member of the council is out to advance ONLY their buddies goals, and dont give 2 craps about who it hurts, how it affects everyone elses game play, and screws game balance, then they have no buisness representing the entire player base do they?
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:58:00 - [109] Edited by: Phelan Driscoll on 23/05/2008 20:58:45 Originally by: cimmaron If a member of the council is out to advance ONLY their buddies goals, and dont give 2 craps about who it hurts, how it affects everyone elses game play, and screws game balance, then they have no buisness representing the entire player base do they? So how about a rule that says if any player/alliance uses unfair contacts in the CSM or CCP, in any form, to gain in game benefit, then all parties involved will have all accounts banned? snip Signature is totally inappropriate and not allowed on EvE Forums. Contact us at [email protected] if you have any queries - Valorem
Idaeus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 20:59:00 - [110] To the people that constantly cry goonspiracy, you should be aware our space enemies tend to view with the same concern the 0.0 situation, we just don't agree on the exact nature of the problem. If we, the people actually shooting the crap out of each other, can set aside our differences about this, surely the rest of you can.
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:02:00 - [111] Originally by: cimmaron Originally by: Yorda Originally by: cimmaron Would be easier to just boot them when it became obvious their intentions were to do nothing more than benifit their buddies? Yes, we should just boot everyone from the council because there's obviously a reason they want to be on there. Only people who dont want to be on there should be allowed on there. See, yet again, I have to spell it out in ABC's for the learning impaired, If a member of the council is out to advance ONLY their buddies goals, and dont give 2 craps about who it hurts, how it affects everyone elses game play, and screws game balance, then they have no buisness representing the entire player base do they? Oh and who gets to decided that? you? Because no one has explicitly stated that this is what they're on the CSM for. Darius has actually been very dedicated in answering all your stupid pubbie complaints with a pretty diplomatic tone. I hate to say this but goons put a lot of effort and time into this game. They're defiantly going to want this game to be as fun as possible for their players, and if you can tell most of the suggestions made my goons on this board has had overwhelming support from not only goons but the majority of neutral people posting in them. You're right, the goon representatives probably dont care one bit what you think but do you think for one second that Jade or any other representative cares about someone who has such a biased against them that they wont even see the issue and just generalize and stereotype against them? Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:02:00 - [112] Originally by: Idaeus To the people that constantly cry goonspiracy, you should be aware our space enemies tend to view with the same concern the 0.0 situation, we just don't agree on the exact nature of the problem. If we, the people actually shooting the crap out of each other, can set aside our differences about this, surely the rest of you can. Really, im one of the enemies both shooting at, and being shot by goon, and I obviusly dont agree, and I dont know a helluva lot of people in my coalition that do.
Idaeus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:07:00 - [113] Edited by: Idaeus on 23/05/2008 21:07:11 You're not a space enemy, you're a speedbump on the road to giving Geminate to Noob Mercs.
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:10:00 - [114] Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 21:14:51 Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 21:12:16 Originally by: Idaeus Edited by: Idaeus on 23/05/2008 21:07:11 You're not a space enemy, you're a speedbump on the road to giving Geminate to Noob Mercs. lol, what have you kids done besides lose a titan to us, spam local a bunch and lag out m-m a few times? Exactly...oops forgot, and make up a bunch of kills to inflate your heads after your titan got smoked.
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:12:00 - [115] Originally by: cimmaron Its not about the fact that I dont like Goons(wich I make no attempt to hide the fact that I think you guys are as mature as a stapler), its that I dont agree with you based on logical and moral basis, as the suggestions your making will hurt alot more people, and serve only to help your corp and buddies further your goals. The only argument you've been able to come up with is that we're evil. Thats it. Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:14:00 - [116] Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 21:14:12 Originally by: Dramaticus Originally by: cimmaron Its not about the fact that I dont like Goons(wich I make no attempt to hide the fact that I think you guys are as mature as a stapler), its that I dont agree with you based on logical and moral basis, as the suggestions your making will hurt alot more people, and serve only to help your corp and buddies further your goals. The only argument you've been able to come up with is that we're evil. Thats it. I never said you were evil. I said you were biased, and only worried about what would help your corp, while screwing everyone else over, is you think the shoe fits, cant help ya there.
Idaeus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:17:00 - [117] Hardin, TBH. The guy has been around a while, is still involved ACTIVELY in 0.0 (unlike Jade, whose corporation has ceased to be a major player, and seems hell bent on wrecking all the work everyone has put into 0.0) and is roleplayer to boot. He easily bridges the gap between the people who play purely for 0.0 politics, fleet warfare and building up infrastructure and the vocal roleplaying groups of EVE. I've always been red to CVA, pre-GoonSwarm and post, but you can't help but respect the guy and everything CVA has accomplished in the game. They've taken a horrid region of space and built one of the safest pockets of 0.0.
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:20:00 - [118] Originally by: Idaeus Hardin, TBH. The guy has been around a while, is still involved ACTIVELY in 0.0 (unlike Jade, whose corporation has ceased to be a major player, and seems hell bent on wrecking all the work everyone has put into 0.0) and is roleplayer to boot. He easily bridges the gap between the people who play purely for 0.0 politics, fleet warfare and building up infrastructure and the vocal roleplaying groups of EVE. I've always been red to CVA, pre-GoonSwarm and post, but you can't help but respect the guy and everything CVA has accomplished in the game. They've taken a horrid region of space and built one of the safest pockets of 0.0. Thank you for an honest answer.
Darius JOHNSON GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:27:00 - [119] Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 23/05/2008 21:27:38 Originally by: cimmaron When the question was posed to the OP and the other CSM's belonging to goonfleet, what other council member that ist assoicated with goon would you suggest, that question was ignored, a few times now, further proving my point all along. As I told you repeatedly I answered every single question you asked. Since you won't bother to read, allow me to refer you to the last sentence of post #70 in this thread. Note that this was the direct response to this question, the first time you asked it. Now we can play the name calling game you're playing while posturing about how immature we are. We can play the mudslinging game where you insult and debase the very thoughts in the heads of people and in true psychic fashion deduce their intentions. We can play the game where you derail a thread asking for reasons behind a completely different thread repeatedly despite being pointed to the thread for a response. We can even play the game where I answer every single question you ask and you ignore the answer and stomp your feet like a baby insisting that the question was never answered. We can play all these games from a high horse of maturity and white knighting for causes that seem to have the acceptance of a variety of people, all the while claiming maturity maturity maturity. But we shouldn't, because this is not the thread and really you've gotten quite silly. I think it's time you moved on because you've degenerated to spamming the same thing repeatedly.
cimmaron Warp Riders Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.23 21:33:00 - [120] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 23/05/2008 21:27:38 Originally by: cimmaron When the question was posed to the OP and the other CSM's belonging to goonfleet, what other council member that ist assoicated with goon would you suggest, that question was ignored, a few times now, further proving my point all along. As I told you repeatedly I answered every single question you asked. Since you won't bother to read, allow me to refer you to the last sentence of post #70 in this thread. Note that this was the direct response to this question, the first time you asked it. Now we can play the name calling game you're playing while posturing about how immature we are. We can play the mudslinging game where you insult and debase the very thoughts in the heads of people and in true psychic fashion deduce their intentions. We can play the game where you derail a thread asking for reasons behind a completely different thread repeatedly despite being pointed to the thread for a response. We can even play the game where I answer every single question you ask and you ignore the answer and stomp your feet like a baby insisting that the question was never answered. We can play all these games from a high horse of maturity and white knighting for causes that seem to have the acceptance of a variety of people, all the while claiming maturity maturity maturity. But we shouldn't, because this is not the thread and really you've gotten quite silly. I think it's time you moved on because you've degenerated to spamming the same thing repeatedly. Sorry, I missed the hardin part, so on that I do apologize. As far as bringing another topic here, that was in response to you asking me where I was getting the idea that Goon members were using bias in the council, sorry if that wasnt glaringly obvious to start with. Your right, we can play this game all day, my problem isnt with you, its with the immature post made by the OP. My problem is with the blind(and to be frank silly) support that Goon gives each other, even when its obviously a stupid idea or suggestion. So, the fact that Darius Jhonson doesent want to see the council head removed for no reason other than the fact that he isnt a goonie, has nothing to do with the fact that the goons are trying to do it anyway. You are right about one thing, I am done with this thread, its been pretty beaten to death.

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