Originally by: nlewis

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jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

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Originally by: Dingi223

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There was a democratic process, and the chairman was voted in by the majority. Do you really believe that GS is so important that you can simply throw out that vote? The voting is done, the results are in, and that is that.

Like all democratic processes, the nomination is not forever. If Jade really messes up, the majority will vote differently next time. In my opinion, I will now definitely vote for Jade again, simply because of the way she has dealt with your tears.

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Originally by: Dingi223

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There was a democratic process, and the chairman was voted in by the majority. Do you really believe that GS is so important that you can simply throw out that vote? The voting is done, the results are in, and that is that.

Like all democratic processes, the nomination is not forever. If Jade really messes up, the majority will vote differently next time. In my opinion, I will now definitely vote for Jade again, simply because of the way she has dealt with your tears.

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Originally by: Vio Geraci

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In the case of clear attempts to violate the CSM processes laid out by CCP or obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality, the CSM should be able to call for a vote of no confidence in their Chairman. Like in Hamlet. Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here, thank you.

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Originally by: hammyhamm

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Its a clause that should have been in the initial CSM document.

This isn't trying to be "Goons trying to take over CSM", it's making sure that if for some instance the councilmembers were to lose faith in the elected chairman, they could force a revote for a new one.

It's how commitees work.

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Originally by: Uzuki Shootmenow

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Originally by: hammyhamm

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Its a clause that should have been in the initial CSM document.

This isn't trying to be "Goons trying to take over CSM", it's making sure that if for some instance the councilmembers were to lose faith in the elected chairman, they could force a revote for a new one.

It's how commitees work.

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Lets just wait how the council and its members actually contribute and make our game better/worse, before casting a no-confidence vote?

Clearly, because Jade has expressed no concern over GS member issues, this thread has started.

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Originally by: Uzuki Shootmenow

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Lets just wait how the council and its members actually contribute and make our game better/worse, before casting a no-confidence vote?

Clearly, because Jade has expressed no concern over GS member issues, this thread has started.

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Originally by: Serenity Steele

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Quick questions:
1) Given that there is a back-up role of Vice-Chairman, do people think this is still necessary?
2) By what mechanism do you see the Chairman being changed? Vote of the CSM?

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Originally by: Heartstone

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To quote what I said in the other no confidence thread

"Votes have been cast. Don't like it? Vote for someone else next time. Didn't vote? STFU."

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Originally by: Vio Geraci

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While I'm sure your CEO appreciates your partisanship, dismissing a serious issue like this will not do the CSM or the general EVE player base any favors.

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Originally by: Serenity Steele

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Quick questions:
1) Given that there is a back-up role of Vice-Chairman, do people think this is still necessary?
2) By what mechanism do you see the Chairman being changed? Vote of the CSM?

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Originally by: Vio Geraci

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1) I'm afraid so. There is the possibility that someone simply impossible to deal with will be elected to the CSM chair, and cause the council to be useless for six months. Something that I would find unfair to the players, and to CSM members who were under the impression that they were going to be participating in a serious council with professional members.

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≡v≡ Strategic Maps now in Eve-Online Store

Originally by: Vio Geraci

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Originally by: Heartstone

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To quote what I said in the other no confidence thread

"Votes have been cast. Don't like it? Vote for someone else next time. Didn't vote? STFU."

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While I'm sure your CEO appreciates your partisanship, dismissing a serious issue like this will not do the CSM or the general EVE player base any favors.

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Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto

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Why not? First rule of making democracy function - if you chose not to vote, you can't complain. If you lost, acknowledge it(though I'll still certainly allow for bitterness and complaining there). Jade won, suck it up.

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Originally by: nlewis

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jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

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Originally by: Yorda

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Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto

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Why not? First rule of making democracy function - if you chose not to vote, you can't complain. If you lost, acknowledge it(though I'll still certainly allow for bitterness and complaining there). Jade won, suck it up.

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First, that's two rules.

Secondly, this isn't about Jade or goons or a specific CSM but rather the way the CSM should work.

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Originally by: Yorda

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Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto

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Why not? First rule of making democracy function - if you chose not to vote, you can't complain. If you lost, acknowledge it(though I'll still certainly allow for bitterness and complaining there). Jade won, suck it up.

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First, that's two rules.

Secondly, this isn't about Jade or goons or a specific CSM but rather the way the CSM should work.

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Originally by: Vio Geraci

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... obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality ...

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Originally by: LASER WATCHER

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if we were to accidentally elect someone with autism/is deaf, then we should get a chance to fix it.

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Originally by: Vio Geraci

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... obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality ...

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Originally by: LASER WATCHER

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if we were to accidentally elect someone with autism/is deaf, then we should get a chance to fix it.

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Originally by: LASER WATCHER

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Originally by: Dingi223

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There was a democratic process, and the chairman was voted in by the majority. Do you really believe that GS is so important that you can simply throw out that vote? The voting is done, the results are in, and that is that.

Like all democratic processes, the nomination is not forever. If Jade really messes up, the majority will vote differently next time. In my opinion, I will now definitely vote for Jade again, simply because of the way she has dealt with your tears.

---

Please be assured that this applies to any CSM Chairman at all, and that if we were to accidentally elect someone with autism/is deaf, then we should get a chance to fix it.

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Originally by: LASER WATCHER

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Originally by: Dingi223

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There was a democratic process, and the chairman was voted in by the majority. Do you really believe that GS is so important that you can simply throw out that vote? The voting is done, the results are in, and that is that.

Like all democratic processes, the nomination is not forever. If Jade really messes up, the majority will vote differently next time. In my opinion, I will now definitely vote for Jade again, simply because of the way she has dealt with your tears.

---

Please be assured that this applies to any CSM Chairman at all, and that if we were to accidentally elect someone with autism/is deaf, then we should get a chance to fix it.

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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This thread was pruned without any notice by CCP moderators. This is unacceptable.

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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This thread was pruned without any notice by CCP moderators. This is unacceptable.

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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Unlike the British Prime Minister the American President is also elected by a popular vote.

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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Unlike the British Prime Minister the American President is also elected by a popular vote.

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Originally by: Smacktalking Alt

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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Unlike the British Prime Minister the American President is also elected by a popular vote.

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If you're an American citizen, then our schools have assuredly failed us.

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Originally by: Smacktalking Alt

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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Unlike the British Prime Minister the American President is also elected by a popular vote.

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If you're an American citizen, then our schools have assuredly failed us.

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Originally by: Vio Geraci

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In the case of clear attempts to violate the CSM processes laid out by CCP or obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality, the CSM should be able to call for a vote of no confidence in their Chairman. Like in Hamlet. Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here, thank you.

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Originally by: Yorda

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this isn't about Jade or goons or a specific CSM but rather the way the CSM should work.

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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Unlike the British Prime Minister the American President is also elected by a popular vote.

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Originally by: Vio Geraci

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In the case of clear attempts to violate the CSM processes laid out by CCP or obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality, the CSM should be able to call for a vote of no confidence in their Chairman. Like in Hamlet. Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here, thank you.

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Originally by: Sakura Nihil

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Goum altpost, C/D?

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Originally by: Idaeus

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Originally by: Sakura Nihil

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Goum altpost, C/D?

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Oh god no, I like Vio.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Since the mods nerfed my first post, I DO NOT AGREE, I will support the current chairperson and hope to god he/she keeps the failswarm jokers that managed, through sheer luck to get appointed from gaining any kind of positive control over the council.

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Originally by: Vio Geraci

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In the case of clear attempts to violate the CSM processes laid out by CCP or obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality, the CSM should be able to call for a vote of no confidence in their Chairman. Like in Hamlet. Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here, thank you.

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Since the mods nerfed my first post, I DO NOT AGREE, I will support the current chairperson and hope to god he/she keeps the failswarm jokers that managed, through sheer luck to get appointed from gaining any kind of positive control over the council.

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3000 some odd pieces of luck. Luckier than anyone else who lucked their way in I may add Mr. Bitter.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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It has nothing to do with biterness, it has to do with reality, Goon as an entity is a plague to this game, that has admitted in and of itself that they are out to cause as much disruption and caos in eve as possible. So, their own coaltion voted for them, wow, real hard to figure that one out.

I havent seen a single goonfleet member, CSM or otherwise make a well thought out, down to earth post since I have been reading these forums(for a while now btw). I see how they post, how they act both ingame and out. Perhaps if Goonswarm as a whole, would pull their collective heads out their 4th point of contact, they would be taken a little bit more seriously with their ideas and suggestions.

Instead they are more worried about griefing people, and running gank squads on haulers, than improving the game, which is why they(as a whole) will never recive my vote, good idea or not.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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I cant help but notice the sheer number of Goon/goon alts trying to take control of the council..hmm wonder why that might be?

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Originally by: Sally Bestonge

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This Council is a Representation of the players themselves not what ever CCP says is okay.

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Quote:

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If its simply "your opinion" that a CSM rep/chair/v.chair or whatever is behaving badly but CCP don't share that opinion in a serious professional sense, then you will have to wait until the next session of the CSM and register your disapproval by voting for somebody else next time.

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Originally by: cimmaron

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I cant help but notice the sheer number of Goon/goon alts trying to take control of the council..hmm wonder why that might be?

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Nobody's trying to take control of anything. I don't even want a damn administrative seat on the cancel. You're 0 for 30.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Yep, took the time to read over your little thread you linked, seen alot of both good and bad things, but speaking to the behavior of your corp and alliance ingame...

When I go to a system with more than...2 goons in it, I see grown men and women acting like they have the maturity of a shoe lace, what does that say about you, or your leadership?

Im shure your a nice guy, but the reputation that you have allowed your organization to delve into will far outweigh anything you have to say for along time to come.

If goon has no intention of taking a leadership postion within the council, then WHY are you trying to get the current council head removed, and better yet, who OTHER than a goon member would you like to see placed there.

Simply put, everything you say and or do will be clouded with doubt and suspicion due to who you are, amd what you stand for(based upon the actions of the corp and alliance that you are chairmen of).

Thus far every single suggestion I have seen goon make has been to their benifit, and no other, such as the topic of JB's and cyno jammed systems, while most people will take the time to read what is said, few us were around pre-cyno jamm and JB, to the alarm clock ops, and the late nights. The suggestion being made there is to the sole benifit of the largest corp and alliance in the game, which can support said late night ops and alarm clock cap moves.

Heres and idea, why dont you come up with something that would benifit other alliances, and players, besides your and your corps goals?

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Originally by: cimmaron

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I cant help but notice the sheer number of Goon/goon alts trying to take control of the council..hmm wonder why that might be?

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Nobody's trying to take control of anything. I don't even want a damn administrative seat on the cancel. You're 0 for 30.

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Yep, took the time to read over your little thread you linked, seen alot of both good and bad things, but speaking to the behavior of your corp and alliance ingame...

When I go to a system with more than...2 goons in it, I see grown men and women acting like they have the maturity of a shoe lace, what does that say about you, or your leadership?

Im shure your a nice guy, but the reputation that you have allowed your organization to delve into will far outweigh anything you have to say for along time to come.

If goon has no intention of taking a leadership postion within the council, then WHY are you trying to get the current council head removed, and better yet, who OTHER than a goon member would you like to see placed there.

Simply put, everything you say and or do will be clouded with doubt and suspicion due to who you are, amd what you stand for(based upon the actions of the corp and alliance that you are chairmen of).

Thus far every single suggestion I have seen goon make has been to their benifit, and no other, such as the topic of JB's and cyno jammed systems, while most people will take the time to read what is said, few us were around pre-cyno jamm and JB, to the alarm clock ops, and the late nights. The suggestion being made there is to the sole benifit of the largest corp and alliance in the game, which can support said late night ops and alarm clock cap moves.

Heres and idea, why dont you come up with something that would benifit other alliances, and players, besides your and your corps goals?

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Again, I ask what suggestions have been put forth that would make eve a better place for all, and not just goonswarm.

So you 3000 or so votes, and how many people belong to your corp, coalition and alliance, a few thousand right, so what you accomplished is no great feat or victory.

Do I give you credit as a CSM, shure, and when I see you come up with something that is not to benifit of goon, I might even consider backing it, but I have yet to see that.

Now on a serious note, how many people outside of RA, and goon actually voted for you, or even give 2/10ths of a damn what you think? Seriously, lets not dillude ourselves here.

I personally view maturity as a big issue when it comes to oneself, its a reflection of who you are, how you were raised and how you approach all things in life. How can I expect a group of people that act like children to treat issues as adults. Thus far you seen to be a well spoken, educated person, and on that note, you as an individual have gained my respect. You need to look at the bigger picture, the way your people act under your leadership is a reflection of you as a person also. I dinf it hard to beleive that someone that can speak so elouquintly here acts like a complete and utter ****** ingame. Why do you allow it to happen out of your corp? Is it that you dont care, cant control them, or a combination of both, either way, it reflects on your ability to accuratly speak to concerns of the active player base as a whole.

So again, I ask, if Goon has no intention of taking control of the council then why are you trying to remove the current chair, and who other than a goonie would you like to see in that position(again not your personal opinion, this is your corp and associates that are doing this), to whit, you are the CEO.

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Originally by: Farrqua

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Edited by: Farrqua on 23/05/2008 18:38:53
Andrew Cruse
Niall Dologhan
Eva Jobse
Alexander Kravitz
Sean Conover
Valentijn Geirnaert
Shayne Smart
Charlie Eriksen
Alison Wheeler

This is our CSM. All this trivial bickering by players that can not separate themselves from their in game persona's is the problem. I see RL individuals up there that will hopefully step out of the sand box and look back at the game with objectivity.

This is a game. Everyone should just drop the RP bit and get to work and help our CSM focus on what is need to be addressed and not trying filter through all this crap. The merits of each CSM should be weighed based what they accomplish not what some in game ticker under the character says.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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The problem is when the members try to use the council to advance their own corp or alliances goals(such as goon wanting to be able to jump their caps in and out at will.)

If I saw people making suggestions that didnt benifit their goals, and actually were unbiased, I may agree with you.

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Originally by: cimmaron

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The problem is when the members try to use the council to advance their own corp or alliances goals(such as goon wanting to be able to jump their caps in and out at will.)

If I saw people making suggestions that didnt benifit their goals, and actually were unbiased, I may agree with you.

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Please link me to the thread where I made this proposal.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 19:54:39

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Originally by: cimmaron

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The problem is when the members try to use the council to advance their own corp or alliances goals(such as goon wanting to be able to jump their caps in and out at will.)

If I saw people making suggestions that didnt benifit their goals, and actually were unbiased, I may agree with you.

---

Please link me to the thread where I made this proposal.

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im pretty shure that i didnt say you made that suggestion. One of your members did, in the other thread over ran by goon's in this little area we got here, shouldnt be too hard to find. Its the one where they want JB's and Cyno Jammers nerfed into uselesness for defenders, wich would largely benifit goons by the return of 100 cap pos fleet reinforcing entire constellations, and hoping to god someone misses the timer to add stront, and late night alarm clock ops, all of us vets remember those days.

So, yes, what I am saying isnt completly unfounded now is it?

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 19:54:39

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Originally by: cimmaron

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The problem is when the members try to use the council to advance their own corp or alliances goals(such as goon wanting to be able to jump their caps in and out at will.)

If I saw people making suggestions that didnt benifit their goals, and actually were unbiased, I may agree with you.

---

Please link me to the thread where I made this proposal.

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im pretty shure that i didnt say you made that suggestion. One of your members did, in the other thread over ran by goon's in this little area we got here, shouldnt be too hard to find. Its the one where they want JB's and Cyno Jammers nerfed into uselesness for defenders, wich would largely benifit goons by the return of 100 cap pos fleet reinforcing entire constellations, and hoping to god someone misses the timer to add stront, and late night alarm clock ops, all of us vets remember those days.

So, yes, what I am saying isnt completly unfounded now is it?

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Originally by: Phelan Driscoll

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 19:54:39

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Originally by: cimmaron

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The problem is when the members try to use the council to advance their own corp or alliances goals(such as goon wanting to be able to jump their caps in and out at will.)

If I saw people making suggestions that didnt benifit their goals, and actually were unbiased, I may agree with you.

---

Please link me to the thread where I made this proposal.

---

im pretty shure that i didnt say you made that suggestion. One of your members did, in the other thread over ran by goon's in this little area we got here, shouldnt be too hard to find. Its the one where they want JB's and Cyno Jammers nerfed into uselesness for defenders, wich would largely benifit goons by the return of 100 cap pos fleet reinforcing entire constellations, and hoping to god someone misses the timer to add stront, and late night alarm clock ops, all of us vets remember those days.

So, yes, what I am saying isnt completly unfounded now is it?

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csm members should only be in NPC corps so they aren't influenced by their buddies in their space guilds tbqh

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Originally by: cimmaron

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See, now that actually makes a little but of sense, but only if its for all accounts they own to include alts, and they sign an agreement with CCP not to join a player owned corp during their term.

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Originally by: OldPueblo

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Edited by: OldPueblo on 23/05/2008 20:06:20
I'm looking for the blind assumptions and generalizations thread, did I find it?

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Originally by: OldPueblo

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Edited by: OldPueblo on 23/05/2008 20:06:20
I'm looking for the blind assumptions and generalizations thread, did I find it?

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Originally by: OldPueblo

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Edited by: OldPueblo on 23/05/2008 20:06:20
I'm looking for the blind assumptions and generalizations thread, did I find it?

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No, you found the goon blind support and ruin eve in every way possible thread, move along.

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Originally by: OldPueblo

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Edited by: OldPueblo on 23/05/2008 20:06:20
I'm looking for the blind assumptions and generalizations thread, did I find it?

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No, you found the goon blind support and ruin eve in every way possible thread, move along.

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You've gotten the answer to every question you've asked. If you want to play internet psychic regarding their intentions or question them perhaps you should use the proper thread? If you want to continue to debate the intentions or whatever of Goonswarm I'm happy to do so but blind generalized statements are not a discussion. They're blind generalized statements completely lacking in fact.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Really, heres the unanswered questions thus far:

1. If goon is not trying to seize control of the council then who would they like to see, other than a good, or alliance member, lead the council.
2.What reason, other than to benifit themselves by the return of midnight cap raids and then jump home, are they asking for cyno jammer and JB changes.
3.What suggestion has been made by any goonfleet csm, or hell even member, that didnt work to their sole benifit.

Those are the questions still not answered btw.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 19:59:36

Originally by: Phelan Driscoll

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csm members should only be in NPC corps so they aren't influenced by their buddies in their space guilds tbqh

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See, now that actually makes a little but of sense, but only if its for all accounts they own to include alts, and they sign an agreement with CCP not to join a player owned corp during their term.

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Originally by: Phelan Driscoll

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 19:59:36

Originally by: Phelan Driscoll

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csm members should only be in NPC corps so they aren't influenced by their buddies in their space guilds tbqh

---

See, now that actually makes a little but of sense, but only if its for all accounts they own to include alts, and they sign an agreement with CCP not to join a player owned corp during their term.

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Wouldn't CSM members also have to have their MSM/AIM accounts monitored by CCP to make sure there wasn't any untoward contact between CSM members and their former comrades?

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Originally by: cimmaron

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/quote]

1. Already answered. Read thread.

2. Already answered. You'd have to ask the people who proposed it. Perhaps the thread it was proposed in would be the proper place to receive a response?

3. Also already answered. None. I've made no proposals and any made by Goons seem to be for the benefit of everyone. The jammer proposal also seems to enjoy some varied support...

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Originally by: Phelan Driscoll

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 19:59:36

Originally by: Phelan Driscoll

---

csm members should only be in NPC corps so they aren't influenced by their buddies in their space guilds tbqh

---

See, now that actually makes a little but of sense, but only if its for all accounts they own to include alts, and they sign an agreement with CCP not to join a player owned corp during their term.

---

Wouldn't CSM members also have to have their MSM/AIM accounts monitored by CCP to make sure there wasn't any untoward contact between CSM members and their former comrades?

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Would be easier to just boot them when it became obvious their intentions were to do nothing more than benifit their buddies?

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Sorry if you guys are a little butt hurt that you cant jump your cap fleet in and out of a well defended system with impunity.

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Originally by: Dramaticus

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Sorry if you guys are a little butt hurt that you cant jump your cap fleet in and out of a well defended system with impunity.

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What cap fleet.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Would be easier to just boot them when it became obvious their intentions were to do nothing more than benifit their buddies?

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Originally by: nlewis

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jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

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Originally by: Yorda

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Would be easier to just boot them when it became obvious their intentions were to do nothing more than benifit their buddies?

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Yes, we should just boot everyone from the council because there's obviously a reason they want to be on there. Only people who dont want to be on there should be allowed on there.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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If a member of the council is out to advance ONLY their buddies goals, and dont give 2 craps about who it hurts, how it affects everyone elses game play, and screws game balance, then they have no buisness representing the entire player base do they?

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Originally by: Yorda

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Would be easier to just boot them when it became obvious their intentions were to do nothing more than benifit their buddies?

---

Yes, we should just boot everyone from the council because there's obviously a reason they want to be on there. Only people who dont want to be on there should be allowed on there.

---

See, yet again, I have to spell it out in ABC's for the learning impaired,

If a member of the council is out to advance ONLY their buddies goals, and dont give 2 craps about who it hurts, how it affects everyone elses game play, and screws game balance, then they have no buisness representing the entire player base do they?

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Originally by: nlewis

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jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

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Originally by: Idaeus

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To the people that constantly cry goonspiracy, you should be aware our space enemies tend to view with the same concern the 0.0 situation, we just don't agree on the exact nature of the problem.

If we, the people actually shooting the crap out of each other, can set aside our differences about this, surely the rest of you can.

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Originally by: Idaeus

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Edited by: Idaeus on 23/05/2008 21:07:11
You're not a space enemy, you're a speedbump on the road to giving Geminate to Noob Mercs.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Its not about the fact that I dont like Goons(wich I make no attempt to hide the fact that I think you guys are as mature as a stapler), its that I dont agree with you based on logical and moral basis, as the suggestions your making will hurt alot more people, and serve only to help your corp and buddies further your goals.

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Originally by: Dramaticus

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Its not about the fact that I dont like Goons(wich I make no attempt to hide the fact that I think you guys are as mature as a stapler), its that I dont agree with you based on logical and moral basis, as the suggestions your making will hurt alot more people, and serve only to help your corp and buddies further your goals.

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The only argument you've been able to come up with is that we're evil. Thats it.

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Originally by: Idaeus

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Hardin, TBH.

The guy has been around a while, is still involved ACTIVELY in 0.0 (unlike Jade, whose corporation has ceased to be a major player, and seems hell bent on wrecking all the work everyone has put into 0.0) and is roleplayer to boot. He easily bridges the gap between the people who play purely for 0.0 politics, fleet warfare and building up infrastructure and the vocal roleplaying groups of EVE.

I've always been red to CVA, pre-GoonSwarm and post, but you can't help but respect the guy and everything CVA has accomplished in the game. They've taken a horrid region of space and built one of the safest pockets of 0.0.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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When the question was posed to the OP and the other CSM's belonging to goonfleet, what other council member that ist assoicated with goon would you suggest, that question was ignored, a few times now, further proving my point all along.

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 23/05/2008 21:27:38

Originally by: cimmaron

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When the question was posed to the OP and the other CSM's belonging to goonfleet, what other council member that ist assoicated with goon would you suggest, that question was ignored, a few times now, further proving my point all along.

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As I told you repeatedly I answered every single question you asked. Since you won't bother to read, allow me to refer you to the last sentence of post #70 in this thread. Note that this was the direct response to this question, the first time you asked it.

Now we can play the name calling game you're playing while posturing about how immature we are. We can play the mudslinging game where you insult and debase the very thoughts in the heads of people and in true psychic fashion deduce their intentions. We can play the game where you derail a thread asking for reasons behind a completely different thread repeatedly despite being pointed to the thread for a response. We can even play the game where I answer every single question you ask and you ignore the answer and stomp your feet like a baby insisting that the question was never answered.

We can play all these games from a high horse of maturity and white knighting for causes that seem to have the acceptance of a variety of people, all the while claiming maturity maturity maturity.

But we shouldn't, because this is not the thread and really you've gotten quite silly. I think it's time you moved on because you've degenerated to spamming the same thing repeatedly.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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ops forgot, and make up a bunch of kills to inflate your heads after your titan got smoked.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Your right, we can play this game all day, my problem isnt with you, its with the immature post made by the OP. My problem is with the blind(and to be frank silly) support that Goon gives each other, even when its obviously a stupid idea or suggestion.

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Your right, we can play this game all day, my problem isnt with you, its with the immature post made by the OP. My problem is with the blind(and to be frank silly) support that Goon gives each other, even when its obviously a stupid idea or suggestion.

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This is not true.

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Originally by: OldPueblo

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Your right, we can play this game all day, my problem isnt with you, its with the immature post made by the OP. My problem is with the blind(and to be frank silly) support that Goon gives each other, even when its obviously a stupid idea or suggestion.

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This is not true.

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I blindly support this.

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Originally by: cimmaron

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Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 21:14:51
Edited by: cimmaron on 23/05/2008 21:12:16

Originally by: Idaeus

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Edited by: Idaeus on 23/05/2008 21:07:11
You're not a space enemy, you're a speedbump on the road to giving Geminate to Noob Mercs.

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lol, what have you kids done besides lose a titan to us, spam local a bunch and lag out m-m a few times? Exactly...oops forgot, and make up a bunch of kills to inflate your heads after your titan got smoked.

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Originally by: nlewis

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jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

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Originally by: Zemi Dahut

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I can't believe you guys are getting trolled so hard by cimmaron

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Since I'm the CEO of Goonswarm I think I might know what we stand for. I don't recall ever causing for disruption or any of the other fanciful things you're referring to.

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Goons post what Goons want to post and play how they want to play.
...
well I don't fly around and tell anyone else how to play or act
... Lighten up ffs.

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Originally by: Bad Harlequin

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Hmmm.

Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Since I'm the CEO of Goonswarm I think I might know what we stand for. I don't recall ever causing for disruption or any of the other fanciful things you're referring to.

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Goons post what Goons want to post and play how they want to play.
...
well I don't fly around and tell anyone else how to play or act
... Lighten up ffs.

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I see your point, but these various statements are incompatible. The first two negate each other, and as for the last... well, i know it's popular for pirates to act all jaded and "we don't care.. not really.. we don't!" and free of all negative emotions, but uhm. We're debating a virtual democratic system in an interwebz spaceshipz game. Let's stop fooling ourselves and just freely admit, at least to each other, that we do in fact give a damn, okay?

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Originally by: El'Niaga

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I'm sure that all the CSM members have been given a list of offenses that would lead to their dismissal. It is not necessary for us to be involved. Though I do wonder about term length....

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Which, as far as I understand, be any violation of the EULA or NDA.

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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Telling people what to do and how to post compared to some mystery mission statement calling for

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Originally by: LASER WATCHER

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Originally by: Dingi223

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There was a democratic process, and the


Please be assured that this applies to any CSM Chairman at all, and that if we were to accidentally elect someone with autism/is deaf, then we should get a chance to fix it.

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That a pretty horrible thing to say made worse by your ignorance. A lot of Autistic people have a massive IQ and are genious's, I even met a Autistic teenager who made a complete computer modal of a nuclear reactor!.


So your foolish belief that they are some how inferior is utter crap epically due to the fact that most of them ended up As high contributing members of society.

Originally by: Unvisibility

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After just watching Jade Constantine spend several hours posting on another forum and then delete all his posts, replacing them with "WALL OF TEXT" over and over again when he got ridiculed, vilified and had his "arguments" demolished I find myself totally supporting this thread.

The current CSM chairman has some clear mental issues and the ability to replace him for his own good would be advisable I feel.

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Originally by: Vio Geraci

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Edited by: Vio Geraci on 22/05/2008 16:23:18

Originally by: Uzuki Shootmenow

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Lets just wait how the council and its members actually contribute and make our game better/worse, before casting a no-confidence vote?

Clearly, because Jade has expressed no concern over GS member issues, this thread has started.

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I do not believe any of our issues have even been discussed by the council as of yet. What has happened is that Jade has made clear that his in-game biases and farcical real life political beliefs are going to inform his every decision as the CSM council chairman. Prior to now, I was uncertain as to whether he would conduct himself professionally or not --it has now been demonstrated to my satisfaction that he shall not, and that his emotional problems may prevent him from fulfilling his duties as chairman. He is trying to turn the entire CSM into his own personal dog show.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Fiasco. It's quite sad that he couldn't even hide his bias while acting as a chairman. I understand during the discussions. But it's totally not cool to be so biased while acting as chairman.

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Originally by: Anton Marvik

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I don't think I even need to say anything after the unprofessional BS that Jade showed in the last meeting.

Something needs to change.

(WOW, this thread has more supports than Jade's "big thread" about blowing up stations, hmm...)

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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I'm fairly suprised that one even HIT the meeting. While I would LIKE to discuss the options or things which could have the same effect, I think that the amount of support shown is waaay too low to even justify it reaching the agenda.

While I did vote aye, since it reached the agenda, I still think it was incorrect for it to even reach the agenda. Some issues were much more important and would be of MUCH more interest to the average player.

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Originally by: Anton Marvik

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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I'm fairly suprised that one even HIT the meeting. While I would LIKE to discuss the options or things which could have the same effect, I think that the amount of support shown is waaay too low to even justify it reaching the agenda.

While I did vote aye, since it reached the agenda, I still think it was incorrect for it to even reach the agenda. Some issues were much more important and would be of MUCH more interest to the average player.

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I was surprised, myself. Perhaps there needs to be clarification on the minimum required support for an issue to make it to a formal vote?

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Originally by: Ceros X

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jade is a useless moron with delusions of grandeur get him off my council

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Originally by: Laerise

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Originally by: Ceros X

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jade is a useless moron with delusions of grandeur get him off my council

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I agree with a GS member, uh oh

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Originally by: Anthony Pants

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Originally by: Laerise

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Originally by: Ceros X

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jade is a useless moron with delusions of grandeur get him off my council

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I agree with a GS member, uh oh

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I don't know how this is supposed to be surprising but vOv

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Originally by: Ceros X

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jade is a useless moron with delusions of grandeur get him off my council

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Originally by: Lithyia Theia

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why is it 99% goonswarm members doing thumbs up in this thread and barely no others?

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Originally by: Lithyia Theia

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why is it 99% goonswarm members doing thumbs up in this thread and barely no others?

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Originally by: Lithyia Theia

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why is it 99% goonswarm members doing thumbs up in this thread and barely no others?

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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Originally by: Lithyia Theia

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why is it 99% goonswarm members doing thumbs up in this thread and barely no others?

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Maybe the other people posting in the thread are incapable of reading a chatlog.

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Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

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I want Jade Constantine as well as EVERYONE ELSE on this Council to quit the political games and get to work. Last night was an embarrassment and a slap in the face to all the people that voted. Take a look at your fancy elected governments all over the world, as soon as politics get involved, their productivity drops to near zero as they are bickering over non-issues. Cut out the politics, your egos and your personal pet agendas, and start serving the people. Honor your duties as a council member and work towards making this game better - for everyone.

Despite the unprofessionalism in yesterdays meeting, I'm not going to support this thread as it's yet another non-productive political game. While Jade Constantine is the one responsible on paper, it is not constructive to start attributing everything that went wrong to a single person, be it Jade or anyone else.

I ask of everyone to refrain from pointing fingers and look at themselves for a moment. Think how you can prevent this from happening next time. I have taken part in numerous discussions and I have seen debates that were chaired by people that performed much worse than Jade did in the last meeting turn out extremely productive. Again, you can't attribute yesterday's fiasco to a single person.

Let's all think about what happened, learn from it and make sure we'll ALL do a better job next time!

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Originally by: EdFromHumanResources

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Originally by: Lithyia Theia

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why is it 99% goonswarm members doing thumbs up in this thread and barely no others?

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Because while most alliances have a small segment that browse forums avidely, goons coming from somethingawful.com FORUMS all tend to do this. So there's more of us than your average alliance :)

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Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

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I want Jade Constantine as well as EVERYONE ELSE on this Council to quit the political games and get to work. Last night was an embarrassment and a slap in the face to all the people that voted. Take a look at your fancy elected governments all over the world, as soon as politics get involved, their productivity drops to near zero as they are bickering over non-issues. Cut out the politics, your egos and your personal pet agendas, and start serving the people. Honor your duties as a council member and work towards making this game better - for everyone.

Despite the unprofessionalism in yesterdays meeting, I'm not going to support this thread as it's yet another non-productive political game. While Jade Constantine is the one responsible on paper, it is not constructive to start attributing everything that went wrong to a single person, be it Jade or anyone else.

I ask of everyone to refrain from pointing fingers and look at themselves for a moment. Think how you can prevent this from happening next time. I have taken part in numerous discussions and I have seen debates that were chaired by people that performed much worse than Jade did in the last meeting turn out extremely productive. Again, you can't attribute yesterday's fiasco to a single person.

Let's all think about what happened, learn from it and make sure we'll ALL do a better job next time!

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Originally by: Windjammer

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Originally by: Lithyia Theia

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why is it 99% goonswarm members doing thumbs up in this thread and barely no others?

---

Because goons don't like having anyone other than one of their own as chair of the CSM and resent any attempt for the chair to act like one. i.e. moderate the freakin meeting.

---

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

---

I want Jade Constantine as well as EVERYONE ELSE on this Council to quit the political games and get to work. Last night was an embarrassment and a slap in the face to all the people that voted. Take a look at your fancy elected governments all over the world, as soon as politics get involved, their productivity drops to near zero as they are bickering over non-issues. Cut out the politics, your egos and your personal pet agendas, and start serving the people. Honor your duties as a council member and work towards making this game better - for everyone.

Despite the unprofessionalism in yesterdays meeting, I'm not going to support this thread as it's yet another non-productive political game. While Jade Constantine is the one responsible on paper, it is not constructive to start attributing everything that went wrong to a single person, be it Jade or anyone else.

I ask of everyone to refrain from pointing fingers and look at themselves for a moment. Think how you can prevent this from happening next time. I have taken part in numerous discussions and I have seen debates that were chaired by people that performed much worse than Jade did in the last meeting turn out extremely productive. Again, you can't attribute yesterday's fiasco to a single person.

Let's all think about what happened, learn from it and make sure we'll ALL do a better job next time!

---

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

---

Cut out the politics, your egos and your personal pet agendas, and start serving the people. Honor your duties as a council member and work towards making this game better - for everyone.

Think how you can prevent this from happening next time.

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Originally by: Hardin

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this is still a 'learning' process. We are in effect creating the model by which future CSMs will operate and that is by its very nature an 'interesting' and painful process.

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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So how will you be voting on this issue when it comes up in the next meeting Jade?
If it doesn't come up at the next meeting I'd imagine that your position will only become more untenable

---

Quote:

---

In the case of clear attempts to violate the CSM processes laid out by CCP or obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality, the CSM should be able to call for a vote of no confidence in their Chairman. Like in Hamlet. Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here, thank you.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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I have no intention of raising this issue. I'm sure things will work out next time.

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

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I have no intention of raising this issue. I'm sure things will work out next time.

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That's a sudden change in position from earlier. Has something changed to make you change your mind?

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Originally by: Jade Constantine

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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So how will you be voting on this issue when it comes up in the next meeting Jade?
If it doesn't come up at the next meeting I'd imagine that your position will only become more untenable

---

Quote:

---

In the case of clear attempts to violate the CSM processes laid out by CCP or obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality, the CSM should be able to call for a vote of no confidence in their Chairman. Like in Hamlet. Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here, thank you.

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Well if LaVista or Bane wish to allege that that I've violated CSM processes or suffer from obvious mental illnesses then I'm going to vote against obviously. (unless of cause they can show precisely how I've violated those processes or maybe produce a certificate of mental illness). I guess either possibility is as likely.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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I have no intention of raising this issue. I'm sure things will work out next time.

---

That's a sudden change in position from earlier. Has something changed to make you change your mind?

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No. I just have high hopes that Jade will take this seriously and not make the same mistakes next time.

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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Considering Jade has stated that he feels he did nothing wrong and would act the same next time I feel you are sadly mistaken.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy

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Considering Jade has stated that he feels he did nothing wrong and would act the same next time I feel you are sadly mistaken.

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But I'm not going to judge if an elected person isn't good enough for a job, from 1 failed meeting.

I'm sure while Jade states he would do the same, that probably isn't the whole truth. He will think and learn from history, like everybody else.

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Originally by: Jade Constantine

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The lesson learned from that last meeting is for the Chair to be firmer, sooner, and take a much more vigorous hand in preventing unrecognized interruptions from the representatives LaVista. If people will not follow the discipline of raising their hand to be recognized to speak then it is impossible to keep order between nine people in an text chat. If this happens again I'll be inclined to act earlier and more decisively to warn the people doing this and ensure we don't waste time with pointless cross talk and off-topic interruptions while we are trying to go through the agenda.

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Originally by: Voculus

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Originally by: Furb Killer

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Talking about a 180 degree turn vista...

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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I'm still not happy about what happened, and I don't agree with the way he conducted himself. But I still think he should have a second chance.

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Originally by: Tiger Delivery

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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I'm still not happy about what happened, and I don't agree with the way he conducted himself. But I still think he should have a second chance.

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Good people protecting bad people is the greater evil.

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Originally by: Jade Constantine

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The lesson learned from that last meeting is for the Chair to be firmer, sooner, and take a much more vigorous hand in preventing unrecognized interruptions from the representatives LaVista.

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Originally by: Hardin

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Originally by: Jade Constantine

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The lesson learned from that last meeting is for the Chair to be firmer, sooner, and take a much more vigorous hand in preventing unrecognized interruptions from the representatives LaVista.

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If you think being even more authoritarian than you were in the last meeting is really going to help then

The meeting was a FIASCO precisely because you pulled your Dictatorial routine - as the chat logs clearly demonstrate. The meeting did go on a long time - but tbh the majority of this was your fault for reopening debate on two issues which had already been discussed.

As I said in my mail to CSM members your points should either have been addressed at the time the topic was debated or held over and put on the agenda of the next meeting. To imply that the meeting dragged on purely because of the disruption of other CSM members is ridiculous.

The more you tighten your grip on a fistful of sand - the more of that sand slips through your fingers. Use commonsense and accept (occasionally) when you are wrong and things will go a whole lot easier for us all.

TBH if someone is being disruptive it should be up to the CSM body as a whole to highlight that and THEN the Chair can take appropriate action.

As it was I don't feel that Inanna was being particularly disruptive and from my perspective you muted her more because she dared to call you out on your 'editorialising' than for any real practical reason.

You may disagree with my thinking but people can read the chat log and make up their own minds!

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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I'm not protecting him. I just don't think it's right to even think about removing anybody at this point.

I'm sorry if you don't agree. But lets not cause too much drama, if Jade does conduct himself differently at the next meeting.

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Originally by: Jade Constantine

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The lesson learned from that last meeting is for the Chair to be firmer, sooner, and take a much more vigorous hand in preventing unrecognized interruptions from the representatives LaVista. If people will not follow the discipline of raising their hand to be recognized to speak then it is impossible to keep order between nine people in an text chat. If this happens again I'll be inclined to act earlier and more decisively to warn the people doing this and ensure we don't waste time with pointless cross talk and off-topic interruptions while we are trying to go through the agenda.

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Originally by: Draygo Korvan

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Jade, you should not hand out 'warnings' to people who's message appears within a few seconds of you halting the debate. Its completely uncalled for in a chatroom setting due to the fact that person was probably typing their message before you signaled the debate to be halted. Also if someone wants to finish something or have some sort of input on the subject you should give them the floor - not mute them because you want to rush to the vote. Also don't plan on so many agenda items, knock out the ones with little support to leave room for discussion, so the meeting won't take 4 hours to complete.

Also, politics is fully a part of the CSM. The CSM is a political system you will have to make due with this fact.

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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You will do no such thing and I will not ask for your permission to speak. That's just ******* ridiculous. I support this motion. Somewhere this went from a council to discuss Eve to the Jade Constantine Look at me Hour. (or 4)

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Originally by: Kelsin

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Can I ask what is the difference between asking permission to speak and abiding by a system where people speak in turn?

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Originally by: Darius JOHNSON

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In one you ask permission from someone... in the other you wait respectfully for your turn. Now that that's out of the way I was responding to Jade's statement that people should wait for Jade's permission to speak. Clear enough for you?

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