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[Issue] Votes of No Confidence in CSM Director

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Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.09 23:44:00 - [241] Originally by: Theramin Dogon Originally by: Gaius Kador Everyone deserves a second chance. I'm going to quote this so hard when someone tries to institute a vote of no confidence in the GoonFleet CSM members based solely on their corporation. What's that? You mean they did that already? Please note who voted against ... (and why) CSM Manifesto 2008 \| Destroy Outposts!
Theramin Dogon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 00:23:00 - [242] Originally by: Jade Constantine Herschel Yamamoto on the other hand even though I disagree with him over the issue of muting inanna, I do care what he thinks because he's taken time to read and present issues here, take an interest in the CSM process and generally be a responsible respondent to issues threads. You're hardly acting as if you care what anyone else thinks, as you've repeatedly said that you'll act the same way in the future. And Darius does a hell of a better job of rolling with the punches when he gets trolled. I hope you understand it's rather unprofessional to troll back. You're taking this way too seriously. Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Theramin Dogon Originally by: Gaius Kador Everyone deserves a second chance. I'm going to quote this so hard when someone tries to institute a vote of no confidence in the GoonFleet CSM members based solely on their corporation. What's that? You mean they did that already? Please note who voted against ... (and why) I voted in favor of it. Originally by: Jade Constantine As for the OP post - I'm against it. The ultimate player sanctioned "vote of no confidence" is to not elect people again at the next election. This will happen if people abuse their power and responsibility or simply don't do the job. And of course there is a CCP sanctioned "no confidence" if reps actively break the rules and confidences of the job and behave improperly and in that case the misbehaving rep will be replaced by the top alternate. So a method exists already. But you want CCP to be the only ones to initiate a vote of no confidence? Considering all the support they've given to the CSM this far, I'm not at all pleased with that option.
Orion Moonstar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 01:22:00 - [243] Oh I can support in this topic too. Impeach it. http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3
Maitsu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 02:02:00 - [244] Hey guys lets elect a council but if they try to have a discussion and disagree with me lets mute them for being disruptive! Democracy in action!
Maitsu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 02:03:00 - [245] Originally by: Maitsu Hey guys lets elect a council but if they try to have a discussion and disagree with me lets mute them for being disruptive! Democracy in action! Oh wait I'm a goon and obviously because of that I can't have an opinion on this matter because its a GOON CONSPIRACY TO RUIN EVE.
Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.10 02:06:00 - [246] Originally by: Theramin Dogon You're hardly acting as if you care what anyone else thinks, as you've repeatedly said that you'll act the same way in the future. Not true, I care about what some people think. I just don't happen to care what abusive trolling people think. And yep, while I have admitted some mistakes in that meeting I don't believe muting Inanna was one of them and I stand by that decision. If you want vote to "impeach the chair" because you hate the concept of committee moderation then go you. But don't feel too bad if I mostly ignore your arguments on the matter as irrelevant claptrap while I get back to considering the merits of gameplay issues on this forum section right?
Sealclubber Jones GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 20:09:00 - [247] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Theramin Dogon You're hardly acting as if you care what anyone else thinks, as you've repeatedly said that you'll act the same way in the future. Not true, I care about what some people think. I just don't happen to care what abusive trolling people think. And yep, while I have admitted some mistakes in that meeting I don't believe muting Inanna was one of them and I stand by that decision. If you want vote to "impeach the chair" because you hate the concept of committee moderation then go you. But don't feel too bad if I mostly ignore your arguments on the matter as irrelevant claptrap while I get back to considering the merits of gameplay issues on this forum section right? There you have it, straight from the horses mouth. If you disagree with Jade and vote opposite to what it wants, you're an abusive troll and don't deserve a voice. Oh wait I'm a terrible goonie and my opinion doesn't matter.
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 20:14:00 - [248] Originally by: Jade Constantine Not true, I care about what some people think. I just don't happen to care what abusive trolling people think. And yep, while I have admitted some mistakes in that meeting I don't believe muting Inanna was one of them and I stand by that decision. If you want vote to "impeach the chair" because you hate the concept of committee moderation then go you. But don't feel too bad if I mostly ignore your arguments on the matter as irrelevant claptrap while I get back to considering the merits of gameplay issues on this forum section right? So what would you say to the CSM charter which clearly states it's a council of equals, but yet you take it upon yourself to make it unequal (in your favor)? This isn't a fascist dictatorship that because you got 40 odd more votes than hardin you get to rule with an iron fist. It's guess what... a council! Where... guess what? you all get to vote equally! No wai, are you sure it says that in the charter? mutes the charter
Euriti SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.06.10 20:15:00 - [249] I support this vote of no-confidence. The last meeting was pathetic.
Farrqua Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.10 20:20:00 - [250] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Theramin Dogon You're hardly acting as if you care what anyone else thinks, as you've repeatedly said that you'll act the same way in the future. Not true, I care about what some people think. I just don't happen to care what abusive trolling people think. And yep, while I have admitted some mistakes in that meeting I don't believe muting Inanna was one of them and I stand by that decision. If you want vote to "impeach the chair" because you hate the concept of committee moderation then go you. But don't feel too bad if I mostly ignore your arguments on the matter as irrelevant claptrap while I get back to considering the merits of gameplay issues on this forum section right? So if a member from the player base speaks up in disagreement with you, and replies to your condescending remarks in kind, that player is labeled a troll. So is this your solution for a mute towards your player base that you are supposed to be working for?

E'Lairun Duor'Leik Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:31:00 - [251] Channel mute It and let the CSMs have an opinion. Just because It got the most votes in the initial election doesn't mean It gets final say in any and every topic brought to the table.
Xrethan	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:47:00 - [252]
teji	Posted - 2008.06.10 21:53:00 - [253] Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others.
Shadako GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:26:00 - [254] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 09/06/2008 prostate one's self I check my own Prostate all the time. What's the problem?
Satis Tyr Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:27:00 - [255] No. the council is not the same as a government. They do not have to be in charge of things like this. Honestly I think that the CSM document should be greatly expanded to include some sort of procedure for discussion, debate and decission makeing. With the time constraints that this council is under, I am supprised that they have gotten through as many real issues as they have. Well done everyone. However the problems with this council are due to a lack of clear procedure. They do not have time to create one from scratch before they goto Iceland and still have quality things to put on the table there for discussion. This is why someone got muted. This is why Darius farted. This council has been asked to decide together what meaningfull topics will go to iceland for discussion with little to no procedure. as far as a vote of no confidence... Have the CSM document changed to state that if a majority of the CSM reps feel the Chairman should be removed, they can take the issue to CCP who will look into the matter and make a decision. (oh and use a clear deffinition of majority) The CSM does not belong to us. It belongs to CCP. This is their tool to get usefull feedback from their players, let them make it work.
Fdjhbsasgfdsdfgfdsrethbg	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:27:00 - [256] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Theramin Dogon You're hardly acting as if you care what anyone else thinks, as you've repeatedly said that you'll act the same way in the future. Not true, I care about what some people think. I just don't happen to care what abusive trolling people think. And yep, while I have admitted some mistakes in that meeting I don't believe muting Inanna was one of them and I stand by that decision. If you want vote to "impeach the chair" because you hate the concept of committee moderation then go you. But don't feel too bad if I mostly ignore your arguments on the matter as irrelevant claptrap while I get back to considering the merits of gameplay issues on this forum section right? Does moderation really include quelching votes and disregarding vote results you don't like?
JafoPBCFR	Posted - 2008.06.10 22:51:00 - [257] Seeing the log. Seeing Jade comin here and act 12. I wish i had voted for another. Dunno maybe his Dad wrote up his little Spiel that made me vote for him. Im not a Goon Or a Goon Alt. he dont know me from Adam. I want him off the chair before he has another "Malfunction with the channel" when its time to Vote for a important issue. Also who come to the chair i would hope would know what it is tobe a chair and not make there little wise*****s after every vote. And Jane Growup. Ya want to play Big Boy then play it. I Vote to have Him removed from the chair and if he cant settle down and work for me twards my Goals in the game. I want him out of the CSM and put somone who can do the job with out being a burden to the system.
Farrqua Turbo Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.06.10 23:24:00 - [258] Originally by: JafoPBCFR Seeing the log. Seeing Jade comin here and act 12. I wish i had voted for another. Dunno maybe his Dad wrote up his little Spiel that made me vote for him. Im not a Goon Or a Goon Alt. he dont know me from Adam. I want him off the chair before he has another "Malfunction with the channel" when its time to Vote for a important issue. Also who come to the chair i would hope would know what it is tobe a chair and not make there little wise*****s after every vote. And Jane Growup. Ya want to play Big Boy then play it. I Vote to have Him removed from the chair and if he cant settle down and work for me twards my Goals in the game. I want him out of the CSM and put somone who can do the job with out being a burden to the system. I agree with what you said. And yes I voted for him also. However I do not agree to remove him from the CSM completely. He has a lot to contribute. But just not from the chair.
Theramin Dogon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.10 23:39:00 - [259] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Theramin Dogon You're hardly acting as if you care what anyone else thinks, as you've repeatedly said that you'll act the same way in the future. Not true, I care about what some people think. I just don't happen to care what abusive trolling people think. And yep, while I have admitted some mistakes in that meeting I don't believe muting Inanna was one of them and I stand by that decision. If you want vote to "impeach the chair" because you hate the concept of committee moderation then go you. But don't feel too bad if I mostly ignore your arguments on the matter as irrelevant claptrap while I get back to considering the merits of gameplay issues on this forum section right? So you're going to just ignore us, blow us off, and the thread that has been created because of you, yourself, Jade Constantine? It's becoming increasingly evident that you don't care about us just because we didn't vote for you. If you keep up that attitude, you may not get another term. Originally by: Satis Tyr as far as a vote of no confidence... Have the CSM document changed to state that if a majority of the CSM reps feel the Chairman should be removed, they can take the issue to CCP who will look into the matter and make a decision. (oh and use a clear deffinition of majority) The CSM does not belong to us. It belongs to CCP. This is their tool to get usefull feedback from their players, let them make it work. The only problem with this is that there's been very little feedback from CCP. Xhagen may have been in the first official meeting, but he didn't really do anything. They haven't even published the minutes from the first three meetings yet. I think it's partially their fault, too, that Jade has taken it upon himself to enforce the meetings as he sees fit.
Lorq vonRay Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.10 23:45:00 - [260] Originally by: Darius JOHNSON Originally by: cimmaron Since the mods nerfed my first post, I DO NOT AGREE, I will support the current chairperson and hope to god he/she keeps the failswarm jokers that managed, through sheer luck to get appointed from gaining any kind of positive control over the council. 3000 some odd pieces of luck. Luckier than anyone else who lucked their way in I may add Mr. Bitter. CCP just helping the goons destroy the game faster

Jade Constantine Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.06.10 23:47:00 - [261] Originally by: Theramin Dogon So you're going to just ignore us, blow us off, and the thread that has been created because of you, yourself, Jade Constantine? It's becoming increasingly evident that you don't care about us just because we didn't vote for you. If you keep up that attitude, you may not get another term. No you misunderstand. I don't care about silly forum trolls with nothing better to do than post exactly the same thing 10101001301003 other forum trolls are posting. Its got nothing to do with people not voting for me. I can respect a difference of opinion, what I can't respect is repetitious mediocrity. I find collectivist activity very yarn-inspiring at the best of times. Quote: The only problem with this is that there's been very little feedback from CCP. Xhagen may have been in the first official meeting, but he didn't really do anything. They haven't even published the minutes from the first three meetings yet. I think it's partially their fault, too, that Jade has taken it upon himself to enforce the meetings as he sees fit. Well technically I've taken it onto myself to run the meetings as advised in the CSM documentation. Where things have gone wrong have been where I've made the mistake of allowing this council a little too much democracy and allowed them to impact the constitution of the CSM itself. Inevitably it led to problems as people try to vote themselves advantage. Case in point was the vote on moderation and op powers. What I should have done was rule it out of order and simply say "the docs say the Chair moderates live with it or complain to ccp". Instead we wasted time on a vote to confirm a power the officers have anyway just to placate the butt-hurt feelings of some guys that don't like being told when they can speak in meetings. Thats the truth of it.
GeneralNukeEm Free Collective The OSS	Posted - 2008.06.10 23:48:00 - [262] Yes because it is clearly in CCP's interest to help destroy their own game and primary corporate income.
Garregus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.11 00:48:00 - [263] Originally by: Jade Constantine Thats the truth of it. This alone confirms to me that you're lying.
Lorq vonRay Spartan Industrial Manufacturing SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:00:00 - [264] Originally by: GeneralNukeEm Yes because it is clearly in CCP's interest to help destroy their own game and primary corporate income. and ur a goonie***** sucking troll
Courthouse Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:02:00 - [265] Originally by: Lorq vonRay Originally by: GeneralNukeEm Yes because it is clearly in CCP's interest to help destroy their own game and primary corporate income. and ur a goonie***** sucking troll Bitter much? Why don't you go back to BWF and lose a capfleet over it.
Theramin Dogon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:11:00 - [266] Edited by: Theramin Dogon on 11/06/2008 01:11:25 Originally by: Jade Constantine No you misunderstand. I don't care about silly forum trolls with nothing better to do than post exactly the same thing 10101001301003 other forum trolls are posting. FYI, this is what a troll looks like: Originally by: Lorq vonRay CCP just helping the goons destroy the game faster Originally by: Jade Constantine Its got nothing to do with people not voting for me. I can respect a difference of opinion, what I can't respect is repetitious mediocrity. I find collectivist activity very yawn-inspiring at the best of times. What I don't understand is how you can believe that just because there are a lot of people that disagree with you, that our opinions somehow become less valid. Should we then put the people with the fewest votes on the CSM? When voting is involved, the outcome has everything to do with "collectivist activity". Originally by: Jade Constantine Well technically I've taken it onto myself to run the meetings as advised in the CSM documentation. *Where things have gone wrong have been where I've made the mistake of allowing this council a little too much democracy* and allowed them to impact the constitution of the CSM itself. Inevitably it led to problems as people try to vote themselves advantage. Case in point was the vote on moderation and op powers. What I should have done was rule it out of order and simply say "the docs say the Chair moderates live with it or complain to ccp". Instead we wasted time on a vote to confirm a power the officers have anyway just to placate the butt-hurt feelings of some guys that don't like being told when they can speak in meetings.** I understand that the CSM documentation is poor at best, so it's understandable that you and the rest of the members would either ask for clarification from CCP, or hold a vote regarding the council's process. It's not a waste of time at all that you would want to do this; in fact, if I recall correctly, most of the first meeting was centered around straightening out the duties of the council itself. I agree that it was a waste of time, but it was necessary, given the circumstances. Until CCP produces a better document, is it not one of the duties of the CSM to determine what the duties of the CSM is? And if the majority agrees, the motion is passed. This is democracy. However, when you say things like "I've made the mistake of allowing this council a little too much democracy," you open yourself up for attack and derision. This is supposed to be a democratic process, and it's frustrating that you're not willing to work with either your constituents or the rest of the CSM in a democratic process.
The MapMaker	Posted - 2008.06.11 01:45:00 - [267] Surely an amicable resolution could be reached by holding a vote betweeen the CSM representatives as to whether implementing the stand-in vote involves a modification to the CSM constitution or simply stands as a clarification of the constitution. If Jade seems to think he can decide this key issue as chairman of the CSM despite all CSM representatives being equal then surely the natural way to resolve it is to give all reps an equal say in the matter by putting it to vote? This has the caveat that the vote will likely go the same way as the original stand-in vote being contested, meaning Jade loses his tantrum issue.
Herschel Yamamoto Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:15:00 - [268] Originally by: Theramin Dogon Originally by: Jade Constantine Herschel Yamamoto on the other hand even though I disagree with him over the issue of muting inanna, I do care what he thinks because he's taken time to read and present issues here, take an interest in the CSM process and generally be a responsible respondent to issues threads. You're hardly acting as if you care what anyone else thinks, as you've repeatedly said that you'll act the same way in the future. I can't find the Jade bit you quoted. Where was that said? ------------------ Fix the forums!
Rektide	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:20:00 - [269] Two threads for this issue means double the votes.
FluffyBunnyPuPu COAD Alts United	Posted - 2008.06.11 02:22:00 - [270]



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