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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Hardin
Praetoria Technologies
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:07:00 -
[211]
 Originally by: Jade Constantine
The lesson learned from that last meeting is for the Chair to be firmer, sooner, and take a much more vigorous hand in preventing unrecognized interruptions from the representatives LaVista.
If you think being even more authoritarian than you were in the last meeting is really going to help then 
The meeting was a FIASCO precisely because you pulled your Dictatorial routine - as the chat logs clearly demonstrate. The meeting did go on a long time - but tbh the majority of this was your fault for reopening debate on two issues which had already been discussed.
As I said in my mail to CSM members your points should either have been addressed at the time the topic was debated or held over and put on the agenda of the next meeting. To imply that the meeting dragged on purely because of the disruption of other CSM members is ridiculous.
The more you tighten your grip on a fistful of sand - the more of that sand slips through your fingers. Use commonsense and accept (occasionally) when you are wrong and things will go a whole lot easier for us all.
TBH if someone is being disruptive it should be up to the CSM body as a whole to highlight that and THEN the Chair can take appropriate action.
As it was I don't feel that Inanna was being particularly disruptive and from my perspective you muted her more because she dared to call you out on your 'editorialising' than for any real practical reason.
You may disagree with my thinking but people can read the chat log and make up their own minds!
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Alliance Creation/Corp Expansion Services
Advert |
Ceros X
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:17:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Hardin
Originally by: Jade Constantine
The lesson learned from that last meeting is for the Chair to be firmer, sooner, and take a much more vigorous hand in preventing unrecognized interruptions from the representatives LaVista.
If you think being even more authoritarian than you were in the last meeting is really going to help then
The meeting was a FIASCO precisely because you pulled your Dictatorial routine - as the chat logs clearly demonstrate. The meeting did go on a long time - but tbh the majority of this was your fault for reopening debate on two issues which had already been discussed.
As I said in my mail to CSM members your points should either have been addressed at the time the topic was debated or held over and put on the agenda of the next meeting. To imply that the meeting dragged on purely because of the disruption of other CSM members is ridiculous.
The more you tighten your grip on a fistful of sand - the more of that sand slips through your fingers. Use commonsense and accept (occasionally) when you are wrong and things will go a whole lot easier for us all.
TBH if someone is being disruptive it should be up to the CSM body as a whole to highlight that and THEN the Chair can take appropriate action.
As it was I don't feel that Inanna was being particularly disruptive and from my perspective you muted her more because she dared to call you out on your 'editorialising' than for any real practical reason.
You may disagree with my thinking but people can read the chat log and make up their own minds!
Hardin, if you want to help curb this excessive abuse of the "powers" of the Chair - invented or not - please support my motion to include formalizing said powers and introducing the ability for the council to call a vote of no confidence in the chairperson.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=792776
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Vantras
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 13:20:00 -
[213]
Just when you thought it couldnt get any worse...we have last night. A true EVE classic in every way. Can you imagine when the CEO got the chat log emailed to him last night. Sitting there with his morning coffee-about 30 lines in you get one giant "WTF" followed by screaming, banging, and throwing stuff at the intern sitted just outside.
Yes JADE wield your almighty power even more-Let's see how that works out.
Next step wholesale resignations from the CSM board followed by Jade sitting alone in a conference room in Iceland-occasionally muting himself while he endlessly scrawls "I won the most votes" on a white board.
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Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.06.09 14:53:00 -
[214]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
I'm not protecting him. I just don't think it's right to even think about removing anybody at this point.
I'm sorry if you don't agree. But lets not cause too much drama, if Jade does conduct himself differently at the next meeting.
You might want to read Jades responses in the thread on the meeting http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=788122&page=5. Is this the responses you would expect from a competent chairman?
How long do you expect people to keep any sort of faith in the csm program with a chairman like that?
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Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:07:00 -
[215]
Jade, you should not hand out 'warnings' to people who's message appears within a few seconds of you halting the debate. Its completely uncalled for in a chatroom setting due to the fact that person was probably typing their message before you signaled the debate to be halted. Also if someone wants to finish something or have some sort of input on the subject you should give them the floor - not mute them because you want to rush to the vote. Also don't plan on so many agenda items, knock out the ones with little support to leave room for discussion, so the meeting won't take 4 hours to complete.
Also, politics is fully a part of the CSM. The CSM is a political system you will have to make due with this fact.
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:11:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
The lesson learned from that last meeting is for the Chair to be firmer, sooner, and take a much more vigorous hand in preventing unrecognized interruptions from the representatives LaVista. If people will not follow the discipline of raising their hand to be recognized to speak then it is impossible to keep order between nine people in an text chat. If this happens again I'll be inclined to act earlier and more decisively to warn the people doing this and ensure we don't waste time with pointless cross talk and off-topic interruptions while we are trying to go through the agenda.
You will do no such thing and I will not ask for your permission to speak. That's just ******* ridiculous. I support this motion. Somewhere this went from a council to discuss Eve to the Jade Constantine Look at me Hour. (or 4)
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:12:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Draygo Korvan
Jade, you should not hand out 'warnings' to people who's message appears within a few seconds of you halting the debate. Its completely uncalled for in a chatroom setting due to the fact that person was probably typing their message before you signaled the debate to be halted. Also if someone wants to finish something or have some sort of input on the subject you should give them the floor - not mute them because you want to rush to the vote. Also don't plan on so many agenda items, knock out the ones with little support to leave room for discussion, so the meeting won't take 4 hours to complete.
Also, politics is fully a part of the CSM. The CSM is a political system you will have to make due with this fact.
If Jade knocked out the issues that had little support its exploding outpost item wouldn't have made the agenda silly.
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Shaikar
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:04:00 -
[218]
After reading the chat log in all it's bureaucratic power trip glory, there should certainly be some from of mechanism for the CSM to change chairpeople if they lack confidence in the existing one. Frankly I'm surprised there wasn't one already, it is a staple mechanism of your basic comittee.
Whether Jade should or should not be removed is an irrelevant side issue - thats not the proposal. The proposal is to get some form of mechanism for no confidence votes onto the table in the first place, regardless of who the chairman is.
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Kelsin
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:17:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
You will do no such thing and I will not ask for your permission to speak. That's just ******* ridiculous. I support this motion. Somewhere this went from a council to discuss Eve to the Jade Constantine Look at me Hour. (or 4)
Can I ask what is the difference between asking permission to speak and abiding by a system where people speak in turn?
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:20:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 09/06/2008 16:19:55
Originally by: Kelsin
Can I ask what is the difference between asking permission to speak and abiding by a system where people speak in turn?
In one you ask permission from someone... in the other you wait respectfully for your turn. Now that that's out of the way I was responding to Jade's statement that people should wait for Jade's permission to speak. Clear enough for you?
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Farrqua
Turbo Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:21:00 -
[221]
You are digging your self a big hole. For the players best interest, and your own, please step down.
No confidence in the chair.
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Kelsin
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:27:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
In one you ask permission from someone... in the other you wait respectfully for your turn. Now that that's out of the way I was responding to Jade's statement that people should wait for Jade's permission to speak. Clear enough for you?
It's a matter of interpretation to some extent - if people are raising their hands (the "!" in chat, right?) and then speaking in order and the Chair is the one recognizing each person in turn - then that is a little of both.
There was a lot of people speaking without respectfully waiting their turn and that's part of the problem.
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Theel Maas
Errant Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:35:00 -
[223]
No, Let them serve their term and vote differently next time.
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Vanessa Vale
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Posted - 2008.06.09 17:10:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Theel Maas
No, Let them serve their term and vote differently next time.
They are there to fulfill their role. If they can't do it competently they shouldn't be there and let others step in.
Minmatar Boost Brigade |
Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 17:29:00 -
[225]
Edited by: Darius JOHNSON on 09/06/2008 17:29:43
Originally by: Kelsin
It's a matter of interpretation to some extent - if people are raising their hands (the "!" in chat, right?) and then speaking in order and the Chair is the one recognizing each person in turn - then that is a little of both.
There was a lot of people speaking without respectfully waiting their turn and that's part of the problem.
The first time the "!" was seen was at yesterday's meeting. Serenity took it upon him self to start doing it. I am not going to pretend I give a hoot about anything beyond Jade's abuse of authority it doesn't have. I don't. That is what was wrong with yesterday's meeting.
If we could all conduct ourselves without this looming air of threats and desire for e-power then I doubt needing to prostate one's self to someone who isn't in any position of any authority would be an issue.
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Theramin Dogon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 17:33:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
If we could all conduct ourselves without this looming air of threats and desire for e-power then I doubt needing to prostate one's self to someone who isn't in any position of any authority would be an issue.
But you're an IMPORTANT INTERNET SPACE C E O HOW DARE THEY
(p.s. "prostrate") |
Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 17:45:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Theramin Dogon
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
If we could all conduct ourselves without this looming air of threats and desire for e-power then I doubt needing to prostate one's self to someone who isn't in any position of any authority would be an issue.
But you're an IMPORTANT INTERNET SPACE C E O HOW DARE THEY
(p.s. "prostrate")
How dare you correct me dog. *Sets read only on all forums*
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Anton Marvik
AnTi.
Atrocitas
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Posted - 2008.06.09 17:47:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
How dare you correct me dog. *Sets read only on all forums*
You're supposed to say you were right when you said prostate and anyone who says otherwise is either a) part of a Goon conspiracy or b) wants CSM to fail.
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Darius JOHNSON
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 17:49:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Anton Marvik
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
How dare you correct me dog. *Sets read only on all forums*
You're supposed to say you were right when you said prostate and anyone who says otherwise is either a) part of a Goon conspiracy or b) wants CSM to fail.
I had actually typed that out and got distracted. Thanks for stealing my thunder.
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Niding
Polaris Project
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 18:26:00 -
[230]
I support the vote of no confidence. |
Baron Levian
Bloodveil
BLOOD EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.06.09 18:45:00 -
[231]
Edited by: Baron Levian on 09/06/2008 18:47:29
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Unless Jade DOES take this critism to him, I can't really help preventing this. I tried several times to make things go smoother. But I wil make the same point as above, I was blalantly ignored.
CSM e-pen power has made Jade harebrained. I'd expect more from a 38 old chap.
Wait, it's Jade. I wouldn't!
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Lallara Zhuul
Path of Thorns
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Posted - 2008.06.09 18:49:00 -
[232]
---------------------------------------
'Death is the only Release from duty..' |
Goumindong
Merch Industrial
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 19:01:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Originally by: Anton Marvik
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
How dare you correct me dog. *Sets read only on all forums*
You're supposed to say you were right when you said prostate and anyone who says otherwise is either a) part of a Goon conspiracy or b) wants CSM to fail.
I had actually typed that out and got distracted. Thanks for stealing my thunder.
All part of the Goon conspiracy to make you fail at the CSM.
Am i doing this right?
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Karjala Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.09 19:27:00 -
[234]
Once persons are voted in their positions they should be given peace to do what they were selected to do for the period. ESPECIALLY in online environment possibility of bringing up votes for light reasons is BAD. It will eventually lead in to situtation where no one can do anything because their actions are instantly reversed by a vote next day. Or even more likely they're voted to be banned etc. Instead of crying out loud for "democratic" mob justice how about thinking new methods so issues can be handled through more fairly and in orderly matter with less personal conflicts.
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Rovern Hashu
Imperial Dreams
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.06.09 19:31:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Vio Geraci
In the case of clear attempts to violate the CSM processes laid out by CCP or obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality, the CSM should be able to call for a vote of no confidence in their Chairman. Like in Hamlet. Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here, thank you.
I support this! Some people don't seem to understand what they're voting on here. We're not voting on a call of no confidence in Jade . . . We're voting for the ABILITY to call for a vote of no confidence for the Chair of the CSM.
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Mori Felding
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:34:00 -
[236]
Good idea to the op.
___
Memento Mori |
Meteor Crash
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:38:00 -
[237]
I believe this is necessary.
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Gorfob
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 21:51:00 -
[238]
I move for a vote of No Confidence in Darius JOHNSON. He was supposed to be my black brother. But he lied about his skin colour.
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Gaius Kador
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.06.09 22:35:00 -
[239]
Everyone deserves a second chance.
----------------------------------------------
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Theramin Dogon
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 23:34:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Gaius Kador
Everyone deserves a second chance.
I'm going to quote this so hard when someone tries to institute a vote of no confidence in the GoonFleet CSM members based solely on their corporation.
What's that? You mean they did that already? |
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