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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vio Geraci
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:51:00 -
[1]
In the case of clear attempts to violate the CSM processes laid out by CCP or obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality, the CSM should be able to call for a vote of no confidence in their Chairman. Like in Hamlet. Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here, thank you.
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Uzuki Shootmenow
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:56:00 -
[2]
you are sad.
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Dingi223
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:57:00 -
[3]
There was a democratic process, and the chairman was voted in by the majority. Do you really believe that GS is so important that you can simply throw out that vote? The voting is done, the results are in, and that is that.
Like all democratic processes, the nomination is not forever. If Jade really messes up, the majority will vote differently next time. In my opinion, I will now definitely vote for Jade again, simply because of the way she has dealt with your tears.
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Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:58:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Yorda on 22/05/2008 15:58:11
*really is that important*
 Originally by: nlewis
jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
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Zeoliter
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.22 15:59:00 -
[5]
Goons like to take the game seriously. C/D
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LASER WATCHER
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:00:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dingi223
There was a democratic process, and the chairman was voted in by the majority. Do you really believe that GS is so important that you can simply throw out that vote? The voting is done, the results are in, and that is that.
Like all democratic processes, the nomination is not forever. If Jade really messes up, the majority will vote differently next time. In my opinion, I will now definitely vote for Jade again, simply because of the way she has dealt with your tears.
Please be assured that this applies to any CSM Chairman at all, and that if we were to accidentally elect someone with autism/is deaf, then we should get a chance to fix it.
_____
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Uzuki Shootmenow
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:01:00 -
[7]
yea, I'm pretty sure that if Darius was chairman, refusing support to some particular group of players, GS members would support this vote.
You are simply ridiculous.
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Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:04:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Waterfowl Democracy on 22/05/2008 16:04:17
Originally by: Dingi223
There was a democratic process, and the chairman was voted in by the majority. Do you really believe that GS is so important that you can simply throw out that vote? The voting is done, the results are in, and that is that.
Like all democratic processes, the nomination is not forever. If Jade really messes up, the majority will vote differently next time. In my opinion, I will now definitely vote for Jade again, simply because of the way she has dealt with your tears.
Unlike the British Prime Minister the American President is also elected by a popular vote. However, during his term he can be empeached for a variety of reasons. This mechanism acts as protection against the worst abuses of power that can result from a popular election.
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hammyhamm
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:05:00 -
[9]
Its a clause that should have been in the initial CSM document.
This isn't trying to be "Goons trying to take over CSM", it's making sure that if for some instance the councilmembers were to lose faith in the elected chairman, they could force a revote for a new one.
It's how commitees work.
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Tolis Irithel
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:05:00 -
[10]
I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. Note however that;
1) The OP was suggesting this in the event of "attempts to violate the CSM processes", or "obvious mental illnesses." Extended to a more general concept of "procedural violation" or "physical/mental inability to carry out the job", this makes for a perfectly sensible way of ensuring CSM candidates remain effective. This is not, and should not be, however, a mechanism by which to remove CSM members due to differing views.
2) I disagree that this should be restricted solely to the chairman; in fact, I think ANY CSM representative found violating the processes, or losing their capability, should be subject to a confidence vote. Such votes not to occur more than once within a term, however, in order to prevent nuisance confidence spam.
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Erotic Irony
0bsession
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Vio Geraci
In the case of clear attempts to violate the CSM processes laid out by CCP or obvious mental illnesses causing total breaks with reality, the CSM should be able to call for a vote of no confidence in their Chairman. Like in Hamlet. Express support or discuss criticism of this idea here, thank you.
Hamlet was great!
___
Eve Players are not very smart.
Support Killmail Overhaul
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Uzuki Shootmenow
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: hammyhamm
Its a clause that should have been in the initial CSM document.
This isn't trying to be "Goons trying to take over CSM", it's making sure that if for some instance the councilmembers were to lose faith in the elected chairman, they could force a revote for a new one.
It's how commitees work.
Lets just wait how the council and its members actually contribute and make our game better/worse, before casting a no-confidence vote?
Clearly, because Jade has expressed no concern over GS member issues, this thread has started.
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Gorobom
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Uzuki Shootmenow
Originally by: hammyhamm
Its a clause that should have been in the initial CSM document.
This isn't trying to be "Goons trying to take over CSM", it's making sure that if for some instance the councilmembers were to lose faith in the elected chairman, they could force a revote for a new one.
It's how commitees work.
Lets just wait how the council and its members actually contribute and make our game better/worse, before casting a no-confidence vote?
Clearly, because Jade has expressed no concern over GS member issues, this thread has started.
Then you could say this issue wasn't started by us.
My support.
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Galactic Overlord
The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:11:00 -
[14]
How about we lay off the automatic goon bias when they have a good point, which sadly is more often then they get credit for. I support the idea.
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Pricecheck Alt
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:17:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Pricecheck Alt on 22/05/2008 16:16:59
/signed
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Vio Geraci
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:22:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vio Geraci on 22/05/2008 16:23:18
Originally by: Uzuki Shootmenow
Lets just wait how the council and its members actually contribute and make our game better/worse, before casting a no-confidence vote?
Clearly, because Jade has expressed no concern over GS member issues, this thread has started.
I do not believe any of our issues have even been discussed by the council as of yet. What has happened is that Jade has made clear that his in-game biases and farcical real life political beliefs are going to inform his every decision as the CSM council chairman. Prior to now, I was uncertain as to whether he would conduct himself professionally or not --it has now been demonstrated to my satisfaction that he shall not, and that his emotional problems may prevent him from fulfilling his duties as chairman. He is trying to turn the entire CSM into his own personal dog show.
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Uzuki Shootmenow
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:29:00 -
[17]
Im logging in all my pricecheck alts to express my lack of support for this idea as we speak.
If this is how CSM is going to function, better to get rid of it now.
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Phrixus Zephyr
Prospero Incorperated
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:31:00 -
[18]
Hi, Goumindong.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:47:00 -
[19]
Quick questions:
1) Given that there is a back-up role of Vice-Chairman, do people think this is still necessary?
2) By what mechanism do you see the Chairman being changed? Vote of the CSM?
≡v≡ Strategic Maps now in Eve-Online Store |
Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:48:00 -
[20]
To quote what I said in the other no confidence thread
"Votes have been cast. Don't like it? Vote for someone else next time. Didn't vote? STFU."
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Vio Geraci
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:52:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Serenity Steele
Quick questions:
1) Given that there is a back-up role of Vice-Chairman, do people think this is still necessary?
2) By what mechanism do you see the Chairman being changed? Vote of the CSM?
1) I'm afraid so. There is the possibility that someone simply impossible to deal with will be elected to the CSM chair, and cause the council to be useless for six months. Something that I would find unfair to the players, and to CSM members who were under the impression that they were going to be participating in a serious council with professional members.
2) I'm open-minded with regards to the solution, I'm especially interested in what the community thinks is an appropriate way to do it. Perhaps by the unanimous support of all CSM representatives. There needs to be some sort of mechanism by which this can occur, and at present there is none.
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Vio Geraci
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Heartstone
To quote what I said in the other no confidence thread
"Votes have been cast. Don't like it? Vote for someone else next time. Didn't vote? STFU."
While I'm sure your CEO appreciates your partisanship, dismissing a serious issue like this will not do the CSM or the general EVE player base any favors.
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Samuel Harrow
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:54:00 -
[23]
Signed.
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Heartstone
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Vio Geraci
While I'm sure your CEO appreciates your partisanship, dismissing a serious issue like this will not do the CSM or the general EVE player base any favors.
It is quite clearly not partisanship in any way as I have said the same in a Thread specifically designed to attempt to remove the Goonswarm reps from office. I am supporting the mechanic laid down by CCP.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Serenity Steele
Quick questions:
1) Given that there is a back-up role of Vice-Chairman, do people think this is still necessary?
2) By what mechanism do you see the Chairman being changed? Vote of the CSM?
Originally by: Vio Geraci
1) I'm afraid so. There is the possibility that someone simply impossible to deal with will be elected to the CSM chair, and cause the council to be useless for six months. Something that I would find unfair to the players, and to CSM members who were under the impression that they were going to be participating in a serious council with professional members.
Sounds like a valid potential, however IIUC the responsibilities of the chairman and vice-chairman are shared. So in the unusual event a chairman was not functional, then the vice-chair would be responsible for picking up the slack.
≡v≡ Strategic Maps now in Eve-Online Store |
Althair Erin
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:03:00 -
[26]
I support the concept of votes of no confidence.
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The Hope of the younger generation
Come help build a better, more civil EVE! |
Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:13:00 -
[27]
This thread was pruned without any notice by CCP moderators. This is unacceptable.
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Voculus
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.05.22 19:42:00 -
[28]
_________________________________________________________
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:02:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Vio Geraci
Originally by: Heartstone
To quote what I said in the other no confidence thread
"Votes have been cast. Don't like it? Vote for someone else next time. Didn't vote? STFU."
While I'm sure your CEO appreciates your partisanship, dismissing a serious issue like this will not do the CSM or the general EVE player base any favors.
Why not? First rule of making democracy function - if you chose not to vote, you can't complain. If you lost, acknowledge it(though I'll still certainly allow for bitterness and complaining there). Jade won, suck it up.
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Fix the forums! |
Yorda
Battlestars
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.05.22 20:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Why not? First rule of making democracy function - if you chose not to vote, you can't complain. If you lost, acknowledge it(though I'll still certainly allow for bitterness and complaining there). Jade won, suck it up.
First, that's two rules.
Secondly, this isn't about Jade or goons or a specific CSM but rather the way the CSM should work.
Originally by: nlewis
jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
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