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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
50
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Posted - 2011.09.11 18:11:00 -
[271] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:It's also funny that there are idiots who think that the CSM has any choice as to what is NDA'd and what isn't; if it was up to us, we'd tell you what the meeting was about. But in this case it's Zulu's decision. vOv This is as obnoxious as it is arrogant.
If you can't see the need to keep significant game changes under wraps so everyone has an equal shot at making the best of them, than you are a fool.
I happen to think you know better, and that this statement is BS just to placate players.
Way to kick a necessary but unpopular measure exclusively into CCP's court.
Your either a little kid or a liar... maybe both. In any event, statements like yours severely undermine the credibility of the CSM. ALL GëívGëí Ships | Odd-áGëívGëí Items | <-- Links to showInfo in-game |
Pax Infinitas
Adamant Heavy Manufacturing
1
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Posted - 2011.09.11 18:14:00 -
[272] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:MailDeadDrop wrote:And here is where I must turn the lash on the CSM. They should've kept their mouths shut until after the next meeting at a minimum. I fail to see any positive impact for the playerbase by their posting. As best as I can tell, all they've accomplished is to create a platform for their own unseemly self-aggrandizement. I expect better of them. Alas, damned if we do, damned if we don't. If we say nothing, we get yelled at for being useless do-nothing morons. If we say what we feel comfortable saying (which is not much right now, alas), we get yelled at for being useless desperate attention whores. If we say too much, we compromise our ability to advocate on behalf of the community, because CCP will tell us less. Bottom line, my policy is always to do what I think is in the best interests of the community, regardless of the personal consequences, subject to the legal obligations I have placed myself under by signing the NDA. I believe I am doing so now, as are the other members of the CSM. If it turns out that I'm wrong, then I'll happily take my lumps.
No, it's "damned if you communicate in a ****-poor manner and damned if you don't communicate at all."
Do you honestly think an update of, "We talked, can't say anything. We'll try and talk at some point in the future and at some point let you know," is an any way an acceptable communication? Especially in light of the fact that it took almost 3 ******* months to get minutes out of the emergency summit?
I understand that you are hamstrung by the NDA. I further understand that CCP is hard to negotiate with. I also understand that CCP is epic in dragging its feet in ways that would make most government bureaucracy stare in awe. I get it, I really do.
Here is the reality: You had a meeting that in some way ended up becoming a meeting to plan a meeting. I've sat through dozens of those this year. I know nothing of substance gets settled in those meetings. I know it can be detrimental to discuss the substance of said meetings with larger audiences before anything has been settled. But to come out of such a meeting without a decent roadmap regarding how you're going to proceed? That's kind of the point of the meeting!
Here's how the announcement should have been written:
FakeAnnouncement wrote:Hey guys, just wanted to give you a heads-up that we had a meeting with Zulu last night about all of the controversy lately. I can't go into specifics of the meeting but here's what you can expect over the next few weeks. Next week we'll be meeting with the appropriate stakeholders at CCP regarding their commitment to FiS content. We hope to get the major issues settled in that meeting. Assuming we do, Zulu's going to hit you with a devblog by the end of the following week. If we don't get the major issues resolved, I'll give you a further update to let you know when you can expect to hear something more substantive. As these issues relate to CCP's corporate strategy, there won't be minutes from either meeting. In the end, regardless of how everything is settled, we'll be able to give you a concrete answer about CCP's commitment to EVE and FiS within the next few weeks. It may not be the answer everyone is looking for, but we'll have an answer one way or another.
If you have any questions I'll try to answer them as best as I can, but again this is CCP's confidental corporate strategy stuff and I probably won't be able to give you the answer you want yet.
Do you understand the difference between the CSM's announcement and what I wrote above? One contains a commitment to future action and communication as well as a reasonable timeline for it. It also commits to attempting to answer questions in the interim while giving fair warning that some questions can't be answered. The other does neither of those.
If the CSM can't get CCP to agree to and commit to something like what was written above then either the CSM in its current incarnation has failed or the CSM as a concept has failed.
And finally, YES, you absolutely should keep quiet if you can't provide something like what is written above. To corrupt a quote from a great US President and politician (kinda like you guys are EVE politicians) and apply it to the current situation, "It is better to remain silent and be thought useless than to speak out and remove all doubt."
/rage |
Zirise
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
50
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Posted - 2011.09.11 18:28:00 -
[273] - Quote
Your concerns are pretty funny; The Mittani will most likely be elected for CSM 7 if he runs, I think most people find he's doing an awesome job at holding CCP's feet to the fire.
But carry on failing at waging political forum wars making yourself look bad, its fun to watch. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
50
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Posted - 2011.09.11 18:53:00 -
[274] - Quote
Zirise wrote:Your concerns are pretty funny; The Mittani will most likely be elected for CSM 7 if he runs, I think most people find he's doing an awesome job at holding CCP's feet to the fire. But carry on failing at waging political forum wars making yourself look bad, its fun to watch. I don't care how I "look". I just want to see EvE get better.
In my mind a good CSM representative has the mind of a software engineer and the heart of a sci-fi dreamer. Mitt seems to simply be an alliance type that could generate a lot of thoughtless support. I have no doubt he'll be re-elected, should he be inclined to run again. ...but if you are unable to 'step out of your pod' to discuss game design I think you're going to be pretty inefficient in generating constructive action. I think the failure to differentiate what makes a good alliance head in-game and what makes a great game designer is problematic, and my opinion of the mit quote above reflects that. There's no political motivation here. I have never really cared about 'game politics'... it's not my game.
If Mit even reads it I would hope he would reflect on it... because he is in a position to effect positive change. I'm not looking for a response... just consideration. However, I suspect he'll just react if anything at all.... but that is a rough call since all I know about him is what he's written about the CSM. Roll playing is for in-game. I think the CSM would do well to keep RP there... It's an observation. My 2 isk. ALL GëívGëí Ships | Odd-áGëívGëí Items | <-- Links to showInfo in-game |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
50
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Posted - 2011.09.11 19:05:00 -
[275] - Quote
Double post - plz remove ALL GëívGëí Ships | Odd-áGëívGëí Items | <-- Links to showInfo in-game |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
157
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Posted - 2011.09.11 20:04:00 -
[276] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:MailDeadDrop wrote:And here is where I must turn the lash on the CSM. They should've kept their mouths shut until after the next meeting at a minimum. I fail to see any positive impact for the playerbase by their posting. As best as I can tell, all they've accomplished is to create a platform for their own unseemly self-aggrandizement. I expect better of them. Alas, damned if we do, damned if we don't. If we say nothing, we get yelled at for being useless do-nothing morons. If we say what we feel comfortable saying (which is not much right now, alas), we get yelled at for being useless desperate attention whores. If we say too much, we compromise our ability to advocate on behalf of the community, because CCP will tell us less. Bottom line, my policy is always to do what I think is in the best interests of the community, regardless of the personal consequences, subject to the legal obligations I have placed myself under by signing the NDA. I believe I am doing so now, as are the other members of the CSM. If it turns out that I'm wrong, then I'll happily take my lumps.
This is indeed a thorny political - and indeed philosophical problem
My advice would be to resolve the trilemma by always following my advice. Luckily, this is to give us as much information as you can at each discreet stage of the process. I say "luckily" because this is exactly what you have done here.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal made on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
157
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Posted - 2011.09.11 20:05:00 -
[277] - Quote
EDIT: Well I see one much valued feature from the old EVE forums was carried over at least.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal made on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. |
Maimakterion
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
10
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Posted - 2011.09.11 20:52:00 -
[278] - Quote
Gogela wrote: In my mind a good CSM representative has the mind of a software engineer and the heart of a sci-fi dreamer. Mitt seems to simply be an alliance type that could generate a lot of thoughtless support.
What are you smoking? Why would a CSM rep need either one of those when their job is to bring their constituent's concerns up to CCP?
Gogela wrote: I think the failure to differentiate what makes a good alliance head in-game and what makes a great game designer is problematic
When did you get it in your head that The Mittani is in charge of EVE's developers? At this point I'm going to go with you're making stuff up as you go.
Gogela wrote:Roll playing is for in-game. I think the CSM would do well to keep RP there... It's an observation. My 2 isk.
If you think Goons are roleplaying, you are beyond help. Please go back to camping your lowsec gate and never post again. |
BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
1
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Posted - 2011.09.11 20:56:00 -
[279] - Quote
Zirise wrote:Your concerns are pretty funny; The Mittani will most likely be elected for CSM 7 if he runs, I think most people find he's doing an awesome job at holding CCP's feet to the fire. But carry on failing at waging political forum wars making yourself look bad, its fun to watch.
Spoken like a true Goon pet!
Yes, it would be SOOOOOOO difficult for Mittens to get another few thousand votes
So who is TEST putting up since White Tree went to another Goon pet alliance?...Or should I say started a new Goon pet alliance
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Zensige
0ne Percent.
50
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Posted - 2011.09.11 21:01:00 -
[280] - Quote
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:Hello Everyone,
Amidst the recent forum activity about reports of decreased subscriber count, discontent about lack of resources allocated to "Flying In Space" (or, as we know it, Eve Online) and, despite Gridlock and Team BFF's efforts, general stagnation when it comes to fixes and improvements, the CSM just met with CCP's Senor Producer for Eve Online: CCP Zulu.
During that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns with the man who has the ability to resolve them. We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned.
Stay tuned...
Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6
Don't bother posting until you have something worth while to read, IE non-NDA.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration
51
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Posted - 2011.09.11 21:12:00 -
[281] - Quote
Maimakterion wrote:What are you smoking? Why would a CSM rep need either one of those when their job is to bring their constituent's concerns up to CCP? ...* ...um ...because video games are programmed in real life, not a fictional game universe? How do YOU think games come into being? Real life game design requires real-world programming talent and abstract vision. If you want real world results for a fictional universe, your need some real life skills... pretend internet spaceship skills are not enough.
Maimakterion wrote:When did you get it in your head that The Mittani is in charge of EVE's developers? At this point I'm going to go with you're making stuff up as you go. ...in charge? Bit of a stretch don't you think... I think you are making up stuff now. I never suggested any such thing. I merely stated he has influence... which he does.
Maimakterion wrote:If you think Goons are roleplaying, you are beyond help. Please go back to camping your lowsec gate and never post again. There's roll-playing in terms of Amarr vs Minmatar, which some people do, and there's roll-playing in terms of "I'm in a spaceship... in space... doing stuff..." which is what the rest do. You are roll-playing if you play EvE, one way or another. I think you have spent so much time in your "spaceship" that you can't even see that... thus illustrating the point of my entire argument. Thanks for clarifying things...
Welp... back to my lowsec camp. ALL GëívGëí Ships | Odd-áGëívGëí Items | <-- Links to showInfo in-game |
Saerathus
Vocatio Ad Virtutem
79
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Posted - 2011.09.12 01:57:00 -
[282] - Quote
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:Hello Everyone,
Amidst the recent forum activity about reports of decreased subscriber count, discontent about lack of resources allocated to "Flying In Space" (or, as we know it, Eve Online) and, despite Gridlock and Team BFF's efforts, general stagnation when it comes to fixes and improvements, the CSM just met with CCP's Senor Producer for Eve Online: CCP Zulu.
During that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns with the man who has the ability to resolve them. We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned.
Stay tuned...
Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6
"Council Representatives will communicate with the voting community through the topic forums mentioned above, but also with individuals as necessary through any means they agree upon. Although private communications between Representatives and voters can be kept confidential, transcripts of all CSM meetings are considered public property and are to be made public."
http://www.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2011.09.12 02:03:00 -
[283] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:
useless do-nothing morons.
useless desperate attention whores.
right on two counts
lol hilmar must be kicking himself for that email by now - if he cares which is 50/50 in my book - Why dont they just NDA the entire staff so if something like that happens again they can find them and legally prosecute them rather than just firing them - or in the case of the previous leaks - not caring They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
50
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Posted - 2011.09.12 02:45:00 -
[284] - Quote
Pod Amarr wrote:
CCP managed to **** off enough people by them self what are you going to do threaten that all goons leave I wish they did.
I actually hope that eve will go down to 13000 player count so CCP wakes up.
I think if the goons left it would O.o
They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2011.09.12 02:51:00 -
[285] - Quote
Quote:Wily Mittani answered Hilmar, all untroubled.
"Remember my repute among thy customer base. I have the ear of many; yea even my enemies listen to my counsel. So too the gaming magazines, who hunger ever for the content of discord, give me heed. Bend not, and I shall bring down 'pon you a great storm of rage-quitting. I shall tell stories to the media that will hearten your enemies and make your investors quail. Then shall the very stars of New Eden flicker and go dark, and with them all your ill-starred designs."
"Nay," quoth Hilmar. "If the unfaithful would rage-quit, let them do so. And let not the gates of New Eden strike them 'pon the ass ere they leave. Thus unvexed, I shall have Microtransactions and the storied wealth they bestow. Yea, even unto golden ammunition should I desire it. Then I shall no longer be hostage to those who tithe but a monthly pittance, yet seek to make themselves my master."
At this, Mittani did but smile and turn to leave.
"You have no power or desire to lay New Eden low," unbending Hilmar called after him. "And even didst thou, it is the stage 'pon which your own reputation struts. Turn off New Eden's lights and you likewise stand in darkness. Where, Mittani, would you go, New Eden having fallen?"
The Mittani paused, and turning unto Hilmar spoke thusly:
"There are other worlds than thine. If New Eden falls, I will lead my minions forth and play at World of Tanks."
"Tanks?" cried proud Hilmar, "Tanks?!"
The assembled host bowed and answered him as one.
"You are welcome, Hilmar."
lol how true
Goons really dont NEED this game. CCP really does NEED this game. Goons are apparently in control of the only player-to-CCP communication CCP actually cares to recieve. this seems bad to me "If the unfaithful would rage-quit, let them do so. And let not the gates of New Eden strike them 'pon the ass ere they leave." Quoth the Hillmar |
Flamespar
Woof Club
26
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Posted - 2011.09.12 03:01:00 -
[286] - Quote
One point that is consistently ignored by the players screaming "Waaaah CCP is ignoring EVE for WoD and Dust514" is that CCP is developing core techonologies that will benefit all three games.
EVE may benefit from WoDs combat system, WoD will benefit from EVEs network optimisations, Dust514 might share art assets with EVE.
Yes Incarna didn't deliver on it's promise in it's first iteration, but it will. Hopefully sooner rather than later. I would hate to see the development of this feature that some of us have been waiting for years (and years) to halt.
Personally I think CCP is still commited to their vision of a complete SciFi simulator. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
138
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Posted - 2011.09.12 03:14:00 -
[287] - Quote
Saerathus wrote:"Council Representatives will communicate with the voting community through the topic forums mentioned above, but also with individuals as necessary through any means they agree upon. Although private communications between Representatives and voters can be kept confidential, transcripts of all CSM meetings are considered public property and are to be made public." http://www.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf
Sorry, but this wasn't a CSM meeting. There was no transcript. Perhaps you might quote the portion of that document where it talks about communications between the CSM and CCP and the NDA. CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog What does CSM 6 do? |
Trolls Troll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2011.09.12 03:18:00 -
[288] - Quote
Two step wrote:CSM and CCP and the NDA.
THAT word again.
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ThisIsntMyMain
Republic University Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2011.09.12 03:23:00 -
[289] - Quote
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:Hello Everyone,
Stuff
Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6
To get back to the OP, and putting aside most of the tinfoil rubbish and asshat posting by 13 year old kids in this thread ....
Thanks to all the members of the CSM for doing what the CSM is supposed to do and ensuring that player sentiment gets communicated to CCP Senior management. Whatever the end results turn out to be it's clear that the CSM mechanism at least is working here in a way that doesn't happen with any other video game company. Fingers crossed that it gets a result that keeps customers happy and CCP in business.
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Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
1
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Posted - 2011.09.12 04:02:00 -
[290] - Quote
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:Vicar2008 wrote:No offense I like where this is going, but its just another bone being thrown to us without actually anything concrete being said. Check out the last Dev blogs, plenty of words, no real Comming up content with changes/number crunching etc. It's not a bone being thrown. Meetings like this one, when they reach their conclusion, take the form of a devblog and CSM posts. I believed it important for you to know that discussion is underway to address the problems, even if I can't disclose in what way yet.
This was a bone... instead of this crap you guys should have been silent... Reason? well, this bone will now make us long for something again which if it ever happens ( as it feels atm not ever ) its gonna be a long long time until we see it. |
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Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers Daily Operations
1
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Posted - 2011.09.12 04:24:00 -
[291] - Quote
CCP Manifest wrote:MailDeadDrop wrote:So far we have Meissa, Mittani, Two Step, and a few other CSM delegates (sorry -- can't be bothered to gather all the names) claiming to have had a meeting with one CCP manager, and claiming that good stuff was talked about, and claiming that we'll hear about it, eventually, maybe. 138 posts and 7+ hours later, and not a single CCP person has chimed to confirm even the most basic of facts; like even the meeting occurred, much less that anything substantial was discussed or that anything will be the result of it or even the vaguest of indications when. I predict that none will be forthcoming in the next several days either, seeing as CCP is incapable of staffing for the weekend.
Face it CSM: CCP has absolutely no respect for you, and by extension no respect for the players. They're just trolling you. Quelle surprise
MDD This is a very fair point. Thanks for bringing it up. I'd been talking to the CSM about something entirely unrelated a day or two before, but since I already knew what the content of yesterday's dialogue was going to be, I requested to be a part of the meeting as a fly on the wall. CCP Xhagen graciously accepted my request. Obviously, since I am also under NDA as an employee (and since I'm part of the evil team of the one single guy in public relations that pursues press opportunities) I too cannot reveal the main bulk of the conversation. Sorry dads I am disappoint. However, for what it's worth, as an EVE player I can say that I am wet-my-pants-silly-happy about where the meeting content is headed. Yes, this was a preliminary meeting, but it was absolutely positively necessarily so. That does put the CSM temporarily in a bit of a tough spot, but eh, they were elected to be in that tough spot and kinda campaigned to be there. I'll get it out of the way here. This meeting was not about ponies. Sorry guys. One of my main takeaways from the meeting (and my dealings with them separate from the meeting) is that the CSM will not be distracted from their stated mission. Their tactical use of a mini-PR campaign is a testament to that. Their immediate first responses to stuff Zulu had to say also speaks volumes to their undeterrability. They haven't "called a truce" or been sated.. yet. See Mittani's Red Meat comments in this thread. Their questions were myriad and delivered stalwartly. Also, they haven't been threatened with the NDA wagged in front of their faces. They have stood quite firm in their priorities--and are very much of the mind of many of you that it's going to be "watch what we do" . They are right in saying that nothing of detailed substance was said during the meeting--however there was apparently enough vague substance to convince them that the next meeting should be promising indeed. Convinced enough to decide to come to you guys and give a progress report, treading dangeous political waters. If the preliminary meeting didn't smell of enough Red Meat, I severely doubt they would be here at all. We didn't try to convince them to speak to you guys. Hope that addresses some of the meta-comments here about the CSM's behavior/communications. Sorry about the delay in coming here. I had to sleep.
This adds some + to CSM this one time, havent seen them do anything do award anymore but - before. This also adds + to CCP from a massive amount of - covering a long time.
Instead of the silence we've had keep these coming so that we can see CCP is alive, other then zym who edits everyones posts. Also, try and actually add some real info every now and then, the lack of info is getting tiresome.... |
Dalketh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2011.09.12 04:29:00 -
[292] - Quote
Vaako Horizon wrote:
This was a bone... instead of this crap you guys should have been silent... Reason? well, this bone will now make us long for something again which if it ever happens ( as it feels atm not ever ) its gonna be a long long time until we see it.
THIS EXACTLY. CCP messes up - CSM supposedly to the rescue - CSM satisfied with CCP saying/promising blah blah blah... we wait... and nothing.... CSM angry... summits... emergency meetings... CSM say wait they are optimistic... then NOTHING.... CSM gets up in arms... we supposed to pay attention yet again... then CSM pleased... then NOTHING... over and over. Year after year. 'This time will be different'... don't you understand you are wearing us out? If you can't make a difference... quit. If you can... we haven't really seen it and are tired. Mitten's profanity filled speeches and Trebor's damage control not withstanding... we are feeling hopeless imo.... thats what I see. FYI a nullsec boost (since the current CSM so null-sec heavy) isn't going to cut it if that is current thought.
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Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2011.09.12 04:56:00 -
[293] - Quote
Vaako Horizon wrote:
This adds some + to CSM this one time, havent seen them do anything do award anymore but - before. This also adds + to CCP from a massive amount of - covering a long time.
Instead of the silence we've had keep these coming so that we can see CCP is alive, other then zym who edits everyones posts. Also, try and actually add some real info every now and then, the lack of info is getting tiresome....
Video of the latest CSM meeting
"If the unfaithful would rage-quit, let them do so. And let not the gates of New Eden strike them 'pon the ass ere they leave." Quoth the Hillmar |
Saerathus
Vocatio Ad Virtutem
79
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Posted - 2011.09.12 04:58:00 -
[294] - Quote
Saerathus wrote:"Council Representatives will communicate with the voting community through the topic forums mentioned above, but also with individuals as necessary through any means they agree upon. Although private communications between Representatives and voters can be kept confidential, transcripts of all CSM meetings are considered public property and are to be made public." http://www.eveonline.com/download/devblog/CSM.pdf
Two step wrote: Sorry, but this wasn't a CSM meeting.
Meissa Anunthiel wrote: the CSM just met with CCP's Senor Producer for Eve Online: CCP Zulu.
Meissa Anunthiel wrote: During that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns with the man who has the ability to resolve them.
Meissa Anunthiel wrote: We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd
Because you are too lazy to back up what you say with your own citations..
"CSM representatives and alternates must sign a non-disclosure agreement, as all volunteers and affiliates are required to since the proximity of their relationship may expose them to information not intended for public release. Council representatives and alternates are bound by the terms of that agreement, as all other participants are."
Has nothing to do with meetings. The document enumerates exactly how many meetings the CSM is supposed to have with CCP each term, how many members of the CSM are required to make a meeting official, having the contents of the meetings determined beforehand.. and so on. Most specifically though is the fact that every CSM-CCP meeting is supposed to have a public transcript. Not notes, not minutes - a transcript. So when someone says "The CSM just met with.." I assume that is a meeting of the CSM.. this isn't a matter of bloody semantics. I don't blame the CSM necessarily for not publishing them because it's obvious that CCP has been putting undue pressure on that whole subject, but don't sit there and say "Sorry, you're wrong." when pointed out that there's a contradiction to the much-touted document that the CSM was founded on.
NDAs are signed not only by you but everyone in the ISD programme (supposedly?) and all third-parties that come into contact with Eve-O. Fair enough. But the CSM should not be having NDA'd meetings outside of its scope. Otherwise, why even bother to pretend that it's a "democratic representation"? |
Saerathus
Vocatio Ad Virtutem
79
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 05:04:00 -
[295] - Quote
I fell for this. :( |
Richard Aiel
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2011.09.12 05:08:00 -
[296] - Quote
I havent seen someone do it for years so bwa ha haaa "If the unfaithful would rage-quit, let them do so. And let not the gates of New Eden strike them 'pon the ass ere they leave." Quoth the Hillmar |
Barricade Dark
28
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Posted - 2011.09.12 08:37:00 -
[297] - Quote
I have to agree with Saerathus on this one, well put by the way. This whole thing just stinks of semantics and cover up. I mean I'm glad to see they are actually having meetings and making some kind of headway with CCP. I always figuired whatever the result would be it definitly would be rolled out slowly over the course of months, while in the meantime CCP would continue with whatever plan they have for the immediate future. I don't see them suggesting that they are suddenly going to drop what they are doing as a company and turn around in response to the CSM and their meeting and start working on the game in the direction the CSM and community would like to see. But rather it would be a statement which basically amounts to "we are going to start looking at this".. which is exactly all that has happened. A commitment to "look at it".
Hardly comferting and certainly not sufficient but at least its an acknolwedgment that their is a problem.
I think the response from CCP should be considerably stronger. It should be a commitment to "immediatly restructure the course of Eve Online to meet the demands of the community".. Period. Anything short of that is a weak response and will (and IS) seen as a weak response.
It will be interesting to see how quickly and how deep they will go into the proposed issues, at this point it doesn't really matter what they attack first as far as FIS is concerned, you could throw darts at a board with the hundreds of problems and just work from their. It would be great if they just started on something.. anything.. at this point. I hope CCP realizes that their next patch better include some actual results from these meetings... actual implemented action. |
Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial Rooks and Kings
179
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 08:52:00 -
[298] - Quote
Barricade Dark wrote:I have to agree with Saerathus on this one, well put by the way. This whole thing just stinks of semantics and cover up. I mean I'm glad to see they are actually having meetings and making some kind of headway with CCP. I always figuired whatever the result would be it definitly would be rolled out slowly over the course of months, while in the meantime CCP would continue with whatever plan they have for the immediate future. I don't see them suggesting that they are suddenly going to drop what they are doing as a company and turn around in response to the CSM and their meeting and start working on the game in the direction the CSM and community would like to see. But rather it would be a statement which basically amounts to "we are going to start looking at this".. which is exactly all that has happened. A commitment to "look at it".
Hardly comferting and certainly not sufficient but at least its an acknolwedgment that their is a problem.
I think the response from CCP should be considerably stronger. It should be a commitment to "immediatly restructure the course of Eve Online to meet the demands of the community".. Period. Anything short of that is a weak response and will (and IS) seen as a weak response.
It will be interesting to see how quickly and how deep they will go into the proposed issues, at this point it doesn't really matter what they attack first as far as FIS is concerned, you could throw darts at a board with the hundreds of problems and just work from their. It would be great if they just started on something.. anything.. at this point. I hope CCP realizes that their next patch better include some actual results from these meetings... actual implemented action.
I'm informing you of a process in place, not of CCP saying "we'll look at it somewhere down the line". One process that should generate progress or at least an answer because they're looking at it now...
Before you decry the results of that process to be meaningless, why don't you wait for the result to come out?
Whether that process produces the necessary outcome or not, I'll be posting here again to tell you what came of it anyway. The good thing is that there's *something* going on.
As soon as there's developments, there will be an update. In the meantime I'm reading this thread and others to make sure I get your collective opinion to relay it to CCP for the next meeting.
Member of CSM 2, 3, 4 and 5. Vice-Chairman of CSM 6 |
Flamespar
Woof Club
26
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 09:19:00 -
[299] - Quote
After listening to all the raging on these forums I am of the opinion that what Hilmar should have said in his email was
"We will watch what the silent majority does rather than listen to the vocal minority." I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Barricade Dark
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.12 09:39:00 -
[300] - Quote
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:Barricade Dark wrote:I have to agree with Saerathus on this one, well put by the way. This whole thing just stinks of semantics and cover up. I mean I'm glad to see they are actually having meetings and making some kind of headway with CCP. I always figuired whatever the result would be it definitly would be rolled out slowly over the course of months, while in the meantime CCP would continue with whatever plan they have for the immediate future. I don't see them suggesting that they are suddenly going to drop what they are doing as a company and turn around in response to the CSM and their meeting and start working on the game in the direction the CSM and community would like to see. But rather it would be a statement which basically amounts to "we are going to start looking at this".. which is exactly all that has happened. A commitment to "look at it".
Hardly comferting and certainly not sufficient but at least its an acknolwedgment that their is a problem.
I think the response from CCP should be considerably stronger. It should be a commitment to "immediatly restructure the course of Eve Online to meet the demands of the community".. Period. Anything short of that is a weak response and will (and IS) seen as a weak response.
It will be interesting to see how quickly and how deep they will go into the proposed issues, at this point it doesn't really matter what they attack first as far as FIS is concerned, you could throw darts at a board with the hundreds of problems and just work from their. It would be great if they just started on something.. anything.. at this point. I hope CCP realizes that their next patch better include some actual results from these meetings... actual implemented action. I'm informing you of a process in place, not of CCP saying "we'll look at it somewhere down the line". One process that should generate progress or at least an answer because they're looking at it now... Before you decry the results of that process to be meaningless, why don't you wait for the result to come out? Whether that process produces the necessary outcome or not, I'll be posting here again to tell you what came of it anyway. The good thing is that there's *something* going on. As soon as there's developments, there will be an update. In the meantime I'm reading this thread and others to make sure I get your collective opinion to relay it to CCP for the next meeting.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
It would be one thing if CCP had a reputation worthy of our faith, but they don't, so while I don't decree that the processes is meaningless, I do decree that I have no faith in the process because that is the reputation that CCP has created for themselves. You are right, at this moment nothing has happened but conversations, but given that we have had many meaningless conversations with CCP in the past that resulted in no action at all, how else do you expect the community to react? |
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