No offense I like where this is going, but its just another bone being thrown to us without actually anything concrete being said. Check out the last Dev blogs, plenty of words, no real Comming up content with changes/number crunching etc.

We all wish we could say more, but the rules are the rules.

It's not a bone being thrown. Meetings like this one, when they reach their conclusion, take the form of a devblog and CSM posts. I believed it important for you to know that discussion is underway to address the problems, even if I can't disclose in what way yet.

Durign that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns with the man who has the ability to resolve them.

Hello Everyone,

Amidst the recent forum activity about reports of decreased subscriber count, discontent about lack of resources allocated to "Flying In Space" (or, as we know it, Eve Online) and, despite Gridlock and Team BFF's efforts, general stagnation when it comes to fixes and improvements, the CSM just met with CCP's Senor Producer for Eve Online: CCP Zulu.

During that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns with the man who has the ability to resolve them. We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned.

Stay tuned...

Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6

Can the CSm meet with higher than Zulu...

I'm sure zulu would agree with much of what the CSM wants...but he can't allocate more budget from WoD to FIS.

It's not a bone being thrown. Meetings like this one, when they reach their conclusion, take the form of a devblog and CSM posts. I believed it important for you to know that discussion is underway to address the problems, even if I can't disclose in what way yet.

Does this mean we get sparkled Pony ships with lipstick and giant flying kittens? I can't hold out any longer!

Hello Everyone,

Amidst the recent forum activity about reports of decreased subscriber count, discontent about lack of resources allocated to "Flying In Space" (or, as we know it, Eve Online) and, despite Gridlock and Team BFF's efforts, general stagnation when it comes to fixes and improvements, the CSM just met with CCP's Senor Producer for Eve Online: CCP Zulu.

During that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns with the man who has the ability to resolve them. We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned.

Stay tuned...

Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6

to CSM; I realize CCP (and NDA) limits your ability to make clear statements here in forums, but know some people (me included) think you're doing a damn fine job of pestering, annoying, poking the CCP and trying to give them a wake-up call.

your efforts are much appreciated.

Hello Everyone,

Amidst the recent forum activity about reports of decreased subscriber count, discontent about lack of resources allocated to "Flying In Space" (or, as we know it, Eve Online)

We all wish we could say more, but the rules are the rules.

We all wish we could say more, but the rules are the rules.

We all wish we could say more, but the rules are the rules.

Hello Everyone,

Amidst the recent forum activity about reports of decreased subscriber count, discontent about lack of resources allocated to "Flying In Space" (or, as we know it, Eve Online) and, despite Gridlock and Team BFF's efforts, general stagnation when it comes to fixes and improvements, the CSM just met with CCP's Senor Producer for Eve Online: CCP Zulu.

During that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns with the man who has the ability to resolve them. We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned.

Stay tuned...

Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6

Why oh why is this company so scared of committing to anything?

"Hey uhhhh we got some patch coming up but uhhh... we won't tell you what it'l include until the day before, just incase we mess anything up and can't include it... cos you know, we would want to look like morons... :straightface:"

... they have to deliver ...

Ok, let's play hot/cold then.

Ponies?!

to CSM; I realize CCP (and NDA) limits your ability to make clear statements here in forums, but know some people (me included) think you're doing a damn fine job of pestering, annoying, poking the CCP and trying to give them a wake-up call.

your efforts are much appreciated.

You could tell us what you proposed.

How many more resources are you demanding for FiS? In what form: A new dev team, or add some devs to existing teams? Hire new people, or take them from existing projects? Or should Soundwave just be working longer hours?
What should be their priorities (FiS covers a lot of ground)?
What timescales are acceptable for them to carry this out?

We don't know how much of this has been thought through, but if you're making demands presumably you have demands to make.

Surely there is not an NDA on your own ideas for adding resources to FiS.

Sounds good, but the currency of sounding good has become rather devalued as of late.


Ah man I'm sorry, I know you're doing everything that can be done in your situation and I am genuinely grateful. I hope your efforts end up being rewarded with tangible results. Please keep on trying for us.

I'm 99% sure that the only person above Zulu is Hilmar.

I agree, 'sounds good' is unsatisfying in this situation. Red meat is the only thing that concerns CSM6, not sound bites - deliverable improvements to EVE and a ruthless focus on FiS.

Yet updates to the players have to come across as best they can across the wall of the NDA, and right now we can only divulge that a meeting occurred and that methods of resolution were discussed.

I thought it was a useful conversation and I look forward to the next meeting - useful enough that we'll be relaxing the media pressure for now. Take that for what you will.

we'll be relaxing the media pressure for now. Take that for what you will.

You know, your proposals to CCP would not be covered by the NDA if you told us what they were BEFORE you talked to CCP.

we'll be relaxing the media pressure for now. Take that for what you will.

We've made no secret about CSM6's desire to see more resources allocated to FiS. I'm not sure what part of our message you didn't understand from the blizzard of media coverage, podcasts, blogs, and CSM member posts during this controversy.

You can lead a poster to the internet, but you can't make him r>c>p.

I agree, 'sounds good' is unsatisfying in this situation. Red meat is the only thing that concerns CSM6, not sound bites - deliverable improvements to EVE and a ruthless focus on FiS.

Yet updates to the players have to come across as best they can across the wall of the NDA, and right now we can only divulge that a meeting occurred and that methods of resolution were discussed.

I thought it was a useful conversation and I look forward to the next meeting - useful enough that we'll be relaxing the media pressure for now. Take that for what you will.

feelin smug now, not gonna lie~

We've made no secret about CSM6's desire to see more resources allocated to FiS. I'm not sure what part of our message you didn't understand from the blizzard of media coverage, podcasts, blogs, and CSM member posts during this controversy.

You can lead a poster to the internet, but you can't make him r>c>p.

Anybody else having deja vu

hmm.. i will make a predication.

CSM will come back saying everything is fine.

The Mittani will be smugger then usual and will claim to have saved Eve, again.

CCP will post a dev blog with ponies and and how they have learned their lesson blah blah blah

Details of the winter expansion are annouced lots of people will get angry and the CSM will go rar and CCP will be silent and the forum will be full of rage and we will go.. hang on, this feels similar, deja vu anybody

Why do I have the possible feeling legal measures and/or bannings were threatened lol

Forgive my frustrations, its Friday afternoon I dont envisage any new information comming to light till Best speed Monday at best. Heres hoping i am completly wrong

At the very least, we now that the CSM's declaration of War, and the Viral Marketing that picked up on it, had results.

The details is what I don't understand. Like how much effort you propose to be shifted, what you propose to do with incarna (have it become yet another abandoned feature?) and so on. Do you think that eve should get more funding that the income from subscriptions and PLEX sales? If the money being spent of FiS is equal to the subscriptions, is it OK for CCP to spend money on WiS, Dust, Wod?

One of the above CSM members said that there was stuff CSM proposed that cannot be talked about because it was covered by the NDA. So there must have been CSM proposals that have not been in the media coverage, since if it was in the media coverage, it would be public and not under an NDA.

All Im saying is you could have given us that information first, before it got locked up under a NDA.

Deliver what, exactly?

The state of some people's mind at the moment would have them scream whatever CCP says, as well as scream when CCP doesn't say anything - I know what I would do as a company in that situation...

CCP is not going to turn back time and not going to abandon their business plans. They may change some details, but that's about it.

I think we should be happy that they try to listen at all.

Hello Everyone,

The CSM just met with CCP's Senor Producer for Eve Online: CCP Zulu.

During that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns like lack of communication from the Devs with the man who has the ability to resolve them. We cannot share the details of the meeting about poor communication itself because it is heavily NDA'd so we're not allowed to communicate it, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned. We actually wont be able to communicate anything about that either of course.

Stay tuned...to Static FM!

Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6

No, I can't tell you what we proposed. Even things that I say to CCP can be covered by the NDA.

Again, our role is not to tell CCP who to hire or who to make work weekends. We are dissatisfied with the current level of staffing on FiS, and we want CCP to change that. Adding a single person would be good, switching the entire company over to working on EVE would be better. Hopefully we will end up somewhere in between.

My own ideas on what should be added are irrelevant.

Hello Everyone,

Amidst the recent forum activity about reports of decreased subscriber count, discontent about lack of resources allocated to "Flying In Space" (or, as we know it, Eve Online) and, despite Gridlock and Team BFF's efforts, general stagnation when it comes to fixes and improvements, the CSM just met with CCP's Senor Producer for Eve Online: CCP Zulu.

During that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns with the man who has the ability to resolve them. We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned.

Stay tuned...

Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6

The details is what I don't understand. Like how much effort you propose to be shifted, what you propose to do with incarna (have it become yet another abandoned feature?) and so on. Do you think that eve should get more funding that the income from subscriptions and PLEX sales? If the money being spent of FiS is equal to the subscriptions, is it OK for CCP to spend money on WiS, Dust, Wod?

Guys, there is nothing any of us can say at this point more than what we've said.

But know that we are working hard on your behalf to get CCP to address your concerns regarding FiS.

Guys, there is nothing any of us can say at this point more than what we've said.

But know that we are working hard on your behalf to get CCP to address your concerns regarding FiS.

Guys, there is nothing any of us can say at this point more than what we've said.

But know that we are working hard on your behalf to get CCP to address your concerns regarding FiS.

Guys, there is nothing any of us can say at this point more than what we've said.

Which wasn't anything.

But know that we are working hard on your behalf to get CCP to address your concerns regarding FiS.

Guys, there is nothing any of us can say at this point more than what we've said.

But know that we are working hard on your behalf to get CCP to address your concerns regarding FiS.

Guys, there is nothing any of us can say at this point more than what we've said.

But know that we are working hard on your behalf to get CCP to address your concerns regarding FiS.

Hello Everyone,

Amidst the recent forum activity about reports of decreased subscriber count, discontent about lack of resources allocated to "Flying In Space" (or, as we know it, Eve Online) and, despite Gridlock and Team BFF's efforts, general stagnation when it comes to fixes and improvements, the CSM just met with CCP's Senor Producer for Eve Online: CCP Zulu.

During that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns with the man who has the ability to resolve them. We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned.

Stay tuned...

Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6

this is such a pointless thread on the part of the csm. i think your just trying to stay relivant in this word of forums. as a long term player i have never seen you or heard of you. so how you got that position is pretty clear. but to make a thread where all you basically say is well we talked to ccp but cant talk about the talk, is a very pointless waste of time. thank you for pointing out your uslessness and the csm complete and utter failure

Its really funny how the CSM brags how influential you all are in your blogs but when you get called on it on the forums, suddenly you dont have any power

Lobbying for CCP to focus on FIS is virtually too late. The pertinent time was last July when CCP announced their plans for 2011 which (disgracefully) had nothing to do with FIS at all.

It's disappointing to see it has taken over a year for everyone (and the CSM) to understand the gravest concerns have nothing to do with Barbie or NeX. The issue is and always has been broken core gameplay of the FIS variety. Fussing with emergency summits to tackle reaction to NeX garbage is like rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.

So where are them minutes to the summit meeting in july?

You see I actually think its time for us to look at what has been done in the last three months,

No change in hanger functionality, "ship spinning".
No change in pricing of nex.
No improvement with communication.
Ridiculously sparse devblogs combined with dissapearing acts from the devs.
No content or improvements to gameplay in expansions.
Failure to deliver the racial captains quarters as promised,
manipulation of the july minutes creating yet another point of conflict and leading to a failure to release tehm.
functionality such as fittings taken away so they can be charged for later.
QEN's cancelled.


What was it hilmar said, now is the time we look at what the players do and not what they say? well the players are voting with their subs and logging off. CCP has done nothing since the july summit in any of the areas they promised they would try to improve.

So as for this little meeting yeah Ive heard it all before, mittens is deluded anyway but the rest of the CSM being so suckered by yet another "emergency meeting" is actually a dissapointment. I thought they had more intelligence than to fall for the same bull twice.

you cast aspersions about intelligence, but haven't even noticed that the minutes you complain about have already been released~

So where are them minutes to the summit meeting in july?

I bow to your superiority mittens!

and the rest of the point i mentioned?

Why oh why is this company so scared of committing to anything?

Because this company thinks of themselves as a mix between Zynga and Facebook.

More vague promises.

Praise the NDA!

I bow to your superiority mittens!

and the rest of the point i mentioned?

No change in hanger functionality, "ship spinning".
No change in pricing of nex.
No improvement with communication.
Ridiculously sparse devblogs combined with dissapearing acts from the devs.
No content or improvements to gameplay in expansions.
Failure to deliver the racial captains quarters as promised,
manipulation of the july minutes creating yet another point of conflict and leading to a failure to release tehm.
functionality such as fittings taken away so they can be charged for later.
QEN's cancelled.

There is no 'red meat' from the CSM yet because the expansions we've got our handprints all over come in Winter. So there's not much utility we can demonstrate to the playerbase yet in terms of raw gameplay changes, because the Incarna stuff was already in development/heavy production before we took office, and is still sort of looming over us like a bad hangover. Sure, there's devblogs about TiDi and commitments from CCP about 'no gold ammo', but codewise all we've got thus far is the removal of the ship change session timer.

This makes complete sense, and I'll be the first to step up and say, I buy that answer.

Looking forward to winter, keep up the good fight. Dont let the angry mobs get you down.

Lobbying for CCP to focus on FIS is virtually too late...

Hello Everyone,

Amidst the recent forum activity about reports of decreased subscriber count, discontent about lack of resources allocated to "Flying In Space" (or, as we know it, Eve Online) and, despite Gridlock and Team BFF's efforts, general stagnation when it comes to fixes and improvements, the CSM just met with CCP's Senor Producer for Eve Online: CCP Zulu.

During that meeting, we discussed the players' concerns with the man who has the ability to resolve them. We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned.

Stay tuned...

Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6

I bow to your superiority mittens!

and the rest of the point i mentioned?

Guys, there is nothing any of us can say at this point more than what we've said.

But know that we are working hard on your behalf to get CCP to address your concerns regarding FiS.

I made myself pretty clear on my stance on things in my blog a couple days ago. This meeting was something of a surprise and the content of it was enough to convince me that CCP is taking the concerns of the CSM and the players very seriously. Beyond that I cannot say more.

I know it's hard for people to accept but we are pushing very hard for complete and solid information to be passed along to the players as quickly as possible. We are scheduled to have another meeting soon and the CSM will continue to push for MORE NULL-SEC and WORMHOLE changes and less Incarna Catwalks.

If things are implemented as planned at the moment, by the CSM7 election no one sensible will doubt the power or scope of the CSM.

From the available evidence, because you're not too bright and twist everything to fit your pre-conceived worldview?

More like on behalf of the people that play in null-sec.

This isn't mine, but it does a great job of describing how folks feel:

Rage!

Sing, Godess, the rage of Gianturco's son Mittani; who brought forth a sea of discontent to break against the rocky shoals of Reykjavik, and stirred the hearts of capsuleers to rebellion against the fair-haired masters of New Eden.

From: http://fiddlersedge.blogspot.com/2011/09/fever-dream.html

I find that fact the minutes were put out and most people still don't know about them is just more of CCPs now famously bad communication skills.

I mean come on guys get it together. Your a world wide company. Try to act like it. Stop making the CSM do your work and take the brunt of your mistakes. I have my issues with the CSM and how it works and how people get elected. But im more sickened by they fact CCP is clearly putting them out in front of the mob so unfairly on so many issues.

Though i can say some CSM members are just tossing gas on the fire half the time.

the same argument used in the other thread. Out of curiosity, your NDA doesnt have a clause noting you arent allowed to refer to the NDA in the manner you all have been? I know the one for SWTOR does

an just so you know, what this truly says is "Im glad we have a NDA so we can point to it and shrug mysteriously"

It's not a bone being thrown. Meetings like this one, when they reach their conclusion, take the form of a devblog and CSM posts. I believed it important for you to know that discussion is underway to address the problems, even if I can't disclose in what way yet.

It's not a bone being thrown. Meetings like this one, when they reach their conclusion, take the form of a devblog and CSM posts. I believed it important for you to know that discussion is underway to address the problems, even if I can't disclose in what way yet.

I don't think the CSM is suggesting that we should ever back away from "actions, not words". Meissa was simply informing the players, as best he can through the NDA, what has taken place - an act of information, not persuasion.

"a thing happened" is not the same as "EVERYTHING IS PEACHY LOVE THE CSM LOVE CCP."

More like on behalf of the people that play in null-sec.

What in 6 months?



How bout starting with the minutes of the last meeting before you start on a new one?

..... I still favor the same stuff I favored when I ran for CSM, you can see details on that in my blog (linked in my signature). In general, the CSM is all in agreement that the *critical* issue right now is balance (especially supercaps, but including all ships), and we would like to see that fixed ASAP.

Dead Horse is one of those proposals that cuts across every corner of EVE, because everyone who has ever had to deal with one knows that POSes are utterly miserable.

For example I saw they were going to try to get a mechanic in null sec where people can fly smaller ships. Well they already have that mechanic in eve, but it remains broken and abandonned. Faction War plexxing is a mechanic that if it was fixed correctly would allow players to fly all sorts of small ships in very small groups and be effective for a larger end. Its all set and ready to go it just needs some fixing. This would be much more important to me than tweaking ship stats.

That is the stuff I would like to see the CSM push for in EXPANSIONS - stuff "that cuts across every corner of EVE."

The rebalancing/nerfing/patching/fixing issues need to be reserved for in-between expansion actions.

I would really like to see the CSM press for some immediate patching/balancing implementations, freeing up the winter expansion for something that benefits all of EVE and does not mainly focus on NULL. Frankly, all of the sandbox is hungry for new toys to play with in the sandbox!!! Don't let the winter expansion be just you about the NULL boys and girls.

If null requires an entire expansion, as does low, let it come later. This next expansion needs to be a broad reaching expansion to score some points with their entire player base.

Dex was here.

Rebalancing/patching/fixing would be something for between the releases if there were not some core mechanics that are broken and whose fixes didn't require more time than is available between the releases. Ie, fixes become part of the content, unfortunately.

That said, to people who say it's out of self-interest we focussed on null the limited resources available, that's not true. I live in lowsec, I do mostly small/medium gang PvP and industry. The truth is, large conflicts fuel many things: player movement, ship/module needs (so industrialist have someone to sell their stuff to), they fuel also the player enthusiasm of players, their activity. Right now the decrease in activity in 0.0 is very severe, so things need to be adressed there. And in the meantime we'd like to provide something for industrialists who've been confined forever in highsec something else to look forward to. A shot at gaining more for a bit more risk, something PvEers and PvPers already possess.

Once the most pressing issues on that front are resolved, then I'd like to see lowsec addressed, for instance, and if new content can come, that'd be very welcome too (and by new content I mean adding to what already exists, but in depth, not in breadth).

No offense I like where this is going, but its just another bone being thrown to us without actually anything concrete being said.

That is the stuff I would like to see the CSM push for in EXPANSIONS - stuff "that cuts across every corner of EVE."

The rebalancing/nerfing/patching/fixing issues need to be reserved for in-between expansion actions.

I would really like to see the CSM press for some immediate patching/balancing implementations, freeing up the winter expansion for something that benefits all of EVE and does not mainly focus on NULL. Frankly, all of the sandbox is hungry for new toys to play with in the sandbox!!! Don't let the winter expansion be just you about the NULL boys and girls.

If null requires an entire expansion, as does low, let it come later. This next expansion needs to be a broad reaching expansion to score some points with their entire player base.

Dex was here.

I think the 0.0 changes coming are more needed that low sec, not because I'm in a 0.0 but because I have a reasonable understanding that 0.0 has a fairly hefty impact on empire and lowsec. I agree low sec needs a dam good boost but at a time when 0.0 is being devastated by (retrospectively) bad moves from CCP (Supercaps, Sov Mechanics etc) and a significant chunk of players are rapidly losing interest on both sides.

0.0 might not be important to you individually but if it doesnt get the viagra it needs then the bulk of players will get bored (you only have to look at the 'DRF wars' both sides are bored stupid of the same ending to a battle - except the Russian alliances, they are just in it for the bots), once they start to drop out it starts impacting what happens out there which then filters down and starts damaging empire ice mining, production, research, PI etc. Yes thats probably looking further ahead than Winter, but its better to start fixing those potential problems than 'waste' the effort buffing something that to be quite frankly doesn't have that big an impact on the overall running of Eve.

I will await the general flaming from low sec residents - but I will point out that I agree lowsec does need a overdose of viagra in the near future.

At least they are telling us that stuff is happening. I find it irritating when stuff happens and we hear nothing from CCP or CSM.

Hopefully we'll see more messaging from CSM and CCP in the future. Where messaging basically means "telegraphing our activities" without necessarily "narrating our activities". People who engage in hand-to-hand combat such as boxing, Karate or Tae Kwon Do will understand the difference between "telegraphing" and "narrating". It's the same principle as using your indicators when driving a car: you're not actually telling people where you're going, just that you're turning left.

So while "we're having a meeting" might not mean much in the grand scheme of things, it is a start.

At least they are telling us that stuff is happening. I find it irritating when stuff happens and we hear nothing from CCP or CSM.

Hopefully we'll see more messaging from CSM and CCP in the future. Where messaging basically means "telegraphing our activities" without necessarily "narrating our activities". People who engage in hand-to-hand combat such as boxing, Karate or Tae Kwon Do will understand the difference between "telegraphing" and "narrating". It's the same principle as using your indicators when driving a car: you're not actually telling people where you're going, just that you're turning left.

So while "we're having a meeting" might not mean much in the grand scheme of things, it is a start.

CSM, please don't forget bug stomping as something on the priority list.
Closer to the top than the bottom.
(Seleene, you'll get my vote if you run again on the "Iterations" platform.)

The paper cuts this week have been getting pretty deep.

e.g.,
- my drones still don't work consistently correctly (the little bastards)
- last night, I couldn't even consistently get Projectile ammo type loaded/switched
- my cargo hold window behavior is less satisfying than it was a week ago
- I've now gotten into the habit of constantly checking that all my modules are still online
- windows won't consistently dismiss when the close control is clicked

Yes, there are work arounds to all these. The point is that I'm now spending a significant amount of game time hitting 'paper cut' bumps and doing the work around rather than straight line playing. It breaks the game-play flow and creates frustration.

Just some irritations from the last couple of days.
The full list is immense.

So far we have Meissa, Mittani, Two Step, and a few other CSM delegates (sorry -- can't be bothered to gather all the names) claiming to have had a meeting with one CCP manager, and claiming that good stuff was talked about, and claiming that we'll hear about it, eventually, maybe. 138 posts and 7+ hours later, and not a single CCP person has chimed to confirm even the most basic of facts; like even the meeting occurred, much less that anything substantial was discussed or that anything will be the result of it or even the vaguest of indications when. I predict that none will be forthcoming in the next several days either, seeing as CCP is incapable of staffing for the weekend.

Face it CSM: CCP has absolutely no respect for you, and by extension no respect for the players. They're just trolling you. Quelle surprise

MDD

While I agree with you maybe he is busy writing a devblog so it can be published this weekend As CCP has a one DevBlog a day policy we might see some more devblogs over the weekend that might answer some of the pressing questions

And Seleene please ask about the Dev answers every question. The tread has not been added to the new forums and we need a update

like even the meeting occurred

I trust the CSM will represent the eve players' views to the best to their ability.

I also wrote a quick blog about the events of today to try and put everything in one place: Minutes & Meetings

Face it CSM: CCP has absolutely no respect for you, and by extension no respect for the players. They're just trolling you. Quelle surprise

MDD

Yes...they are telling you they are having meetings. They could tell you they are having ice cream sandwiches on the moon, too. And you have to believe them because...hey...NDA. But I'm sure CCP will vouch for their honesty.

CSM trolls forum-dwellers.
6/10

How did they fail in communicating this? It is at the top of the Dev Blog list, (the same one where you would go on the eve website where they always are). They prominently posted about it on their wall on facebook. CCP staff tweeted its arrival. CSM tweeted its arrival. I'm sure the next time they send out a newsletter, it will be mentioned there too. People are simply being ******** and raging about things without checking their facts first.

Rouge, stop hanging around all this depressing forum chatter and come fly with your corpmates again, we've missed you! I thought you had unsubbed and MIA until I saw your posting. If you have an account active (i'm assuming you do since you're posting), come fly with us :-) We're having just as much fun as we always have had....whether CCP or CSM has anything to say about it one way or another.

They need to do and eve mail bulletin since their own metrics show most of the players do not go to the forums. Maybe you could call it tactical PR unawareness on their part. But I would expect this type of info and patch notes would be in some official CCP newsletter put in the players EvEmail boxes. Many times you have to know exactly what it is you are looking for to find the info you want. I do find the dev blog to be a cluster F%$# in many ways. Thats my opinion on that.

I mean the frickenn spammed us to spend IRL money in the next store after all. They only reason they dont is they want to keep the player base at large unaware on purpose. They set it up on a dev blog post is cute and all but that is just so they can say they try to inform players at the bear minimum.

Well the nice part here is we are actually dealing with numbers. How many devs are currently assigned to real eve? How many will be assigned when? These are the questions that need answers.

If CSM comes back with anything other than these numbers this is a waste.

It's not a bone being thrown. Meetings like this one, when they reach their conclusion, take the form of a devblog and CSM posts. I believed it important for you to know that discussion is underway to address the problems, even if I can't disclose in what way yet.

I dunno....an Evemail about a dev blog about minutes from a meeting, which was about a leaked bulletin, which was about content, seems to be a stretch. I think if most players don't care enough to read forums or peruse the website from time to time, they will most certainly be annoyed with information about information about information being dropped into their evemails.

I much prefer that Evemail be kept for In-game purposes only. I send a lot of mail that has to do with "important stuff" - which for me means diplomatic issues, corporate bulletins, marching orders, announcing campaigns, events, etc, and when I send a mail I expect my corpmates or friends to take a moment and read it. The minute that our Evemail begins to fill with out-of-game junk (which I would say an announcement about a devblog about minutes from 2 month old meeting qualifies as) than people will stop reading it and gameplay would be hampered.

Not promoting is not the same as hiding, so I hardly think you can say CCP is being deceptive. And let's face it - the playerbase is just too smart to be fooled anyways. This is the heart of this whole conflict - CCP has been repeatedly using run-of-the-mill everyday corporate business practices to navigate PR, spin, damage control, etc, and while it may work on everyday consumer masses, Eve players are the type who will crank out spreadsheets, flowcharts, and the like FOR FUN. Sifting through information and calling bullshit is something the players and the CSM have done a great job of, so I really don't think there's a lot more to the picture than we have already pieced together. It's all here for the grabbing.

In the end though, the fact that subscriber numbers have merely leveled off, instead of plummeting, is evidence that a great number of players simply take Eve at face value, log in everyday, blow **** up, and have fun without complaining, blissfully unaware that Eve "is on the brink of disaster". And as long as they keep it up, Eve won't be.

I, too, would love to see some of the much needed fixes and long overdue promises made good. I hate seeing CCP continuously promote stuff, than fail to deliver. It's almost pitiful. Winter brings with it a chance to turn that around, so in the meantime I'm just trying to enjoy what is there to enjoy.

At least now, unlike the past few expansions it seems that the Emperor has finally more or less admitted that he doesn't have any clothes, and there's every incentive for him to get his tailor in gear or to get a new tailor.......cause winter means cold. And no one wants to see a shriveled pair.

So basically, you flew out to meet with Zulu, talked about something people wil never hear about, and then came and told us what it is. What if al you did was discuss the nature of clouds?? How would we know?

So this NDA you all signed whats the penalty for breaking it?

It's not a bone being thrown. Meetings like this one, when they reach their conclusion, take the form of a devblog and CSM posts. I believed it important for you to know that discussion is underway to address the problems, even if I can't disclose in what way yet.

I think it occurred, and threats of legal action / bannings were liberally handed out and they were told to me good little lapdogs again or **** would get real an the one ex lawyer would get to meet the CCP legal team

oh yeah what kind of lawyer is he I wanted to ask that the first time I heard he was one. Cause if he's anything other than international/icelandic corporate law, Im pretty sure he's in over his head here



epic troll

The rest, frankly, I agree with. There is no 'red meat' from the CSM yet because the expansions we've got our handprints all over come in Winter. So there's not much utility we can demonstrate to the playerbase yet in terms of raw gameplay changes, because the Incarna stuff was already in development/heavy production before we took office, and is still sort of looming over us like a bad hangover. Sure, there's devblogs about TiDi and commitments from CCP about 'no gold ammo', but codewise all we've got thus far is the removal of the ship change session timer.

If things are implemented as planned at the moment, by the CSM7 election no one sensible will doubt the power or scope of the CSM. However, right now, before the next expansion, it's just pretty words.

We cannot share the details of the meeting itself because it is heavily NDA'd, but ways to resolve your concerns have been discussed and a follow-up meeting is planned.

Stay tuned...

Meissa Anunthiel, Vice-Chairman of CSM 6

That is the stuff I would like to see the CSM push for in EXPANSIONS - stuff "that cuts across every corner of EVE."

The rebalancing/nerfing/patching/fixing issues need to be reserved for in-between expansion actions.

I would really like to see the CSM press for some immediate patching/balancing implementations, freeing up the winter expansion for something that benefits all of EVE and does not mainly focus on NULL. Frankly, all of the sandbox is hungry for new toys to play with in the sandbox!!! Don't let the winter expansion be just you about the NULL boys and girls.

If null requires an entire expansion, as does low, let it come later. This next expansion needs to be a broad reaching expansion to score some points with their entire player base.

Dex was here.

Stay tuned...

'Now witness the full POWER of this fully operational CSM6'

'Now witness the full POWER of this fully operational CSM6'

If things are implemented as planned at the moment, by the CSM7 election no one sensible will doubt the power or scope of the CSM. However, right now, before the next expansion, it's just pretty words.

You want to prove you're on our side, then tell CCP to f*** off on the NDA just once. If the entire CSM says, "You know what? The NDA is good, but transparency was promised, and you owe the players that much", what is CCP going to do? Fire you all? You don't work for them. Are they going to kick you off the CSM? If you truly want to help, then let your balls drop - all of you and put your money where your mouth is. All we see if pussyfooting around the subjects with vague insinuations and non-specific threads. It gets old.

You're totally clueless about the real world, obviously, so I'll help you out: NDA's have LEGAL standing and those who break them can be sued in court. So yeah, NONE of them are likely to break NDA and for damn good reason.

Fool...

So... is it 18 months yet?

I don't think that's going to happen seeing as how Zulu is planning to speak with the CSM again next week. It seems that CCP has learned a lesson or two about running things by the CSM before ummm... 'surprising' the community with news.



Good point and I'll poke someone about getting that going again.

I also wrote a quick blog about the events of today to try and put everything in one place: Minutes & Meetings

So far we have Meissa, Mittani, Two Step, and a few other CSM delegates (sorry -- can't be bothered to gather all the names) claiming to have had a meeting with one CCP manager, and claiming that good stuff was talked about, and claiming that we'll hear about it, eventually, maybe. 138 posts and 7+ hours later, and not a single CCP person has chimed to confirm even the most basic of facts; like even the meeting occurred, much less that anything substantial was discussed or that anything will be the result of it or even the vaguest of indications when. I predict that none will be forthcoming in the next several days either, seeing as CCP is incapable of staffing for the weekend.

Face it CSM: CCP has absolutely no respect for you, and by extension no respect for the players. They're just trolling you. Quelle surprise

MDD

This is a very fair point. Thanks for bringing it up.

I'd been talking to the CSM about something entirely unrelated a day or two before, but since I already knew what the content of yesterday's dialogue was going to be, I requested to be a part of the meeting as a fly on the wall. CCP Xhagen graciously accepted my request.

Obviously, since I am also under NDA as an employee (and since I'm part of the evil team of the one single guy in public relations that pursues press opportunities) I too cannot reveal the main bulk of the conversation. Sorry dads I am disappoint.

However, for what it's worth, as an EVE player I can say that I am wet-my-pants-silly-happy about where the meeting content is headed. Yes, this was a preliminary meeting, but it was absolutely positively necessarily so. That does put the CSM temporarily in a bit of a tough spot, but eh, they were elected to be in that tough spot and kinda campaigned to be there.

I'll get it out of the way here. This meeting was not about ponies. Sorry guys.

One of my main takeaways from the meeting (and my dealings with them separate from the meeting) is that the CSM will not be distracted from their stated mission. Their tactical use of a mini-PR campaign is a testament to that. Their immediate first responses to stuff Zulu had to say also speaks volumes to their undeterrability. They haven't "called a truce" or been sated.. yet. See Mittani's Red Meat comments in this thread. Their questions were myriad and delivered stalwartly. Also, they haven't been threatened with the NDA wagged in front of their faces. They have stood quite firm in their priorities--and are very much of the mind of many of you that it's going to be "watch what we do" .

They are right in saying that nothing of detailed substance was said during the meeting--however there was apparently enough vague substance to convince them that the next meeting should be promising indeed. Convinced enough to decide to come to you guys and give a progress report, treading dangeous political waters. If the preliminary meeting didn't smell of enough Red Meat, I severely doubt they would be here at all. We didn't try to convince them to speak to you guys.

Hope that addresses some of the meta-comments here about the CSM's behavior/communications. Sorry about the delay in coming here. I had to sleep.

This is a very fair point. Thanks for bringing it up.

I'd been talking to the CSM about something entirely unrelated a day or two before, but since I already knew what the content of yesterday's dialogue was going to be, I requested to be a part of the meeting as a fly on the wall. CCP Xhagen graciously accepted my request.

Obviously, since I am also under NDA as an employee (and since I'm part of the evil team of the one single guy in public relations that pursues press opportunities) I too cannot reveal the main bulk of the conversation. Sorry dads I am disappoint.

However, for what it's worth, as an EVE player I can say that I am wet-my-pants-silly-happy about where the meeting content is headed. Yes, this was a preliminary meeting, but it was absolutely positively necessarily so. That does put the CSM temporarily in a bit of a tough spot, but eh, they were elected to be in that tough spot and kinda campaigned to be there.

I'll get it out of the way here. This meeting was not about ponies. Sorry guys.

One of my main takeaways from the meeting (and my dealings with them separate from the meeting) is that the CSM will not be distracted from their stated mission. Their tactical use of a mini-PR campaign is a testament to that. Their immediate first responses to stuff Zulu had to say also speaks volumes to their undeterrability. They haven't "called a truce" or been sated.. yet. See Mittani's Red Meat comments in this thread. Their questions were myriad and delivered stalwartly. Also, they haven't been threatened with the NDA wagged in front of their faces. They have stood quite firm in their priorities--and are very much of the mind of many of you that it's going to be "watch what we do" .

They are right in saying that nothing of detailed substance was said during the meeting--however there was apparently enough vague substance to convince them that the next meeting should be promising indeed. Convinced enough to decide to come to you guys and give a progress report, treading dangeous political waters. If the preliminary meeting didn't smell of enough Red Meat, I severely doubt they would be here at all. We didn't try to convince them to speak to you guys.

Hope that addresses some of the meta-comments here about the CSM's behavior/communications. Sorry about the delay in coming here. I had to sleep.

This meeting was something of a surprise and the content of it was enough to convince me that CCP is taking the concerns of the CSM and the players very seriously. Beyond that I cannot say more.

I'll get it out of the way here. This meeting was not about ponies. Sorry guys.

This is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what CCP says.

... we discussed the players' concerns

...I can't disclose in what way yet.

I really think they will slam headlong into the NDA here.

I'm 99% sure that the only person above Zulu is Hilmar.

Thanks for your analysis, O mighty internet lawyer. Can you tell me exactly what law you think the CSMs might be faced with charges under? "A first degree charge of Saying Mean Things That Are Provably True"? So far as I know, none of them live in Iceland, so they'd have to be extradited to face any charges.

As for banning? Yeah that'd work well, real smart tactics. I can tell you've read your Machiavelli. Even apart from the tsunami of horrible PR that would generate, even apart from the massive shitstorm that would immediately occur within the playerbase, what do you think the reaction of the banned CSMs might be? Might there be some retaliation that they could take, do you think?

Dear CSM,

If you have nothing to say then don't say anything.

I like you guys so not reported for spam/trolling.

*Hugs*

THIS game needs an NDA because of the competitive nature of it. IE if I knew they were definitely going to remove ice from high sec tomorrow, guess what i'd be buying today?

Non-Disclosure Agreements have legal standing if, and only if, the information obtained and disseminated produces actual harm. In essence, unless trade secrets are leaked, the NDA isn't violated. A CSM coming out and saying, "Look, we talked about X with CCP, Zulu agrees, he's bringing it to the bosses" isn't a violation of trade secrets. At least I hope it isn't.

I mean, is making the game better to keep subscriptions a trade secret, now...?

I am just surprised it took this long to implement SM3.

SM3 came out in 2004, and people are butthurt that they can't play Eve on their PC anymore?

Do yourself a favour, go out and buy a nice decent graphics card. Turn Eve settings up to max and enjoy.

They are right in saying that nothing of detailed substance was said during the meeting--however there was apparently enough vague substance to convince them that the next meeting should be promising indeed. Convinced enough to decide to come to you guys and give a progress report, treading dangeous political waters. If the preliminary meeting didn't smell of enough Red Meat, I severely doubt they would be here at all. We didn't try to convince them to speak to you guys.