Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope.

You're right, as an almost purely Frigate pilot of over a year now looking to use T2 Frigates for the long-term this is my hidden agenda.

It has nothing to do with the fact what you're suggesting offers such insane ISK efficiency for such ridiculous ship bonuses.

It definitely also has nothing to do with, just as importantly, what you're suggesting would in the long run lead to a complete homogenization of ships seen in space.

Actually scratch that, let me train the one weapon system I haven't for Frigs (lasers) for my infinite AFTerceptors.

Additionally, training all weapon systems to V should open up the Uber Weapon Systems skill that offers a flat 10% damage increase per charge, per level. Choosing to have diversity and flexibility should not only do exactly that for you - making you more versatile - it should also make you flat out more effective than someone who strictly specializes in an area.

Train Industry and Social. I just improved your ISK effiency by a gigantic amount and wrapped up your thread for you - whilst answering your "extra training should equal higher effiency" dilemma. For the record, my not-so-long-term goal is to train all IV and Vs in all applicable skills for all racial frigates. I still think your suggestion is poorly placed even though this would be an inevitably gigantic buff to me personally.

1) It should. Specializing should get you a certain ship classes advantages faster, period. Cross-training still allows you to be more diverse and opens up faction ships. AT RIDIULUS PRICES

2) Because generally those are more effective ships and do more ISK's value in damage during their life-span. NOTE TRUE JUST COMPARE HACS / FACTION CRUISERS / TEHC I BCS

This is relative on how experienced the pilot is, mind you. DO NOT PRESUME TO TEACH ME THE REALITIES OF PVP BEFORE VISITNG BATTLECLINIC SEARCH FUNCTIONS

Larger ship classes are very valuable to fleets. SOMETIMES YES AND SOMETIMES NO. SO?

3) You're telling me to see the "big picture" butyou're choosing to ignore the wealth of skills that give you more ISK effiency. YOU ARE TALKING ECONOMIC SKILLS. YOU ARE ENTIRELY MISSING THE POINT.

4) There is no injustice or imbalance. Let me break it down for you: You want ALL THE SHINY SHIPS but not at SHINY SHIP prices NO SHINY SHIPS THAT EXIST TODAY WILL STILL BE AT THE SAME PRICE

and you don't want to train GET-SHINY-SHIP-FASTER skills because you want SHINY-GUNS skills. COMPLETELY INCOMPREHENSIBLE WHAT YOU MEAN HERE

Also, you think it's unfair that the people that get 25% of the SHINY SHIPS accomplish that faster than people who get ALL THE SHINY SHIPS. NOPE I THINK THAT GETTING THE SHINY SHIPS OF ALL RACES SHOULD CONFER AN ADVANTAGE OVER GETING THE SHINY SHIPS OF ONE RACE. EFFECTIVELY THAT WITH 4X THE SP INVESTMENT ONE WOULD HAVE AN ACTUAL RETURN OTHER THAN COLLECTOR'S PRIDE.

Guess it's my folly then, but good luck in your endeavor with this hilarious over-buff proposal.

I wouldn't mind some new ships that aren't pirate faction ships, but require more than 1 race, maybe even 3 or 4 races to fly, but does not require level 5 of each race... something that isn't more expensive than a t2 ship, but at the same time isn't better either... idk :D I am just a guy who likes variation, more ships, more designs, I don't even care if these ships "have a specific role to fill"

I probably shouldn't justify that rant with a response, but regarding the ISK efficiency segment; I should've mentioned that I was speaking relatively and "ISK damage done" wasn't the best term to use.

A small nano-gang with a half-competent FC is generally going to be very efficient. That said, in fleet engagements certain ships won't always cut it. You won't deploy a ton of cheap frigates against a Titan (assuming the Titan has a support fleet... I've known of frig blobs catching lone Titans) typically.

Maybe I can petition for Mining skills to make my Minmatar guns stronger, too. Since essentially what you're saying is that training in multiple areas should be an absolute global buff even when you're not using skills relevant to what you're flying.

No. More versatility and better nerf-proofing is reward enough in itself.

This is real progress we are making now. Yes this is exactly what I mean, not for mining skills applying to guns of course, I do hope that was merely sarcasm. Instead with gun skills in general having a smaller effect to other races guns and ship skills in general having a smaller effect in other races ships. I am looking at something as small as a 3% overall usefulness increase if need be.

Beggars can't be choosers and you got to start somewhere.

- Cross training buff would serve to widen the gap between old players and new ones. This is the prime reason it's not a good idea,/ I DISAGREE instead it would offer new players 2 viable routes instead of one.

because Eve needs to do everything it can to keep new players and attract them in order to last. I AGREE WITH SOME RESERVATIONS but let's not talk about that in here...

- Cross training already allows a wider selection of ships and in such a wider selection of solutions to your current job.
DOES IT? The difference today I submit is minimal / negligable. See post above


- Pirate faction ships do what you refer to; they could be expanded to battlecruisers and destroyers though.
NOPE Pirate faction ships are haxspensive and my idea is all about having a gain in the isk/effectivenes ratio of the ship and not a gain in the overall leetnes. Let me phrase this clearly here for all to understand: I do not want a superleet HAC (I wouldnt mind but thats another story) I want someone with all eight hacs and their systems trained to perfection to be able to fly a vessel of hac or near hac effectiveness at a tech I price. In the particular suggstion you refer to anyway.

No. More versatility and better nerf-proofing is reward enough in itself.

No, we're not making progress. No, it wasn't sarcasm. If you want to train [random skills] and get a bonus to your other skills, I want to train [random skills] and get a bonus, too.

Basically, your complaint seems to boil down to "a Titan pilot with a dedicated skill plan is much more efficient in SP than a Titan pilot who trains for literally years of skills that DON'T APPLY to his Titan". Well, no ****?

In fact I'll go so far as to say that any serious PvP pilot should at minimum cross train to at least 1 more race to at least the Cruiser V / T2 medium weapon level. The benefits are simply too large to ignore.

What are you talking about? Getting access to 5 new T2 cruisers at level 5 is an incredible incentive to train another Cruiser 5.

Plus the ships you say you want already exist in the form of Pirate faction ships.

1. Training one and only race leads to caps suprcaps and their advanteges quicker. Crosstraining offers no advantage. It should offer a competitive advantage (other than alleviating the fear of the Nerfbat. Here I ll even list your arguments for you to move things along).

2. Why train and train only to fly more expensive vessels? There also has to be a progression where more training brings more ISK effective hulls.

Please try to see the big picture:

Pure gold.