The base of the Eve economy is vanishing.

Link is repaired.

Isk faucet known as incursions and no miners added together equals runaway inflation.

You know incursions are not the largest isk faucet bountys are

miners are scum

I keep hoping that less people mining means the EVE community as a whole is getting smarter.

Perhaps not many new players are joining the game? Cause there are things much more profitable than mining, but they aren't as easy.

And these people were not bots, Bots are only in null, mining ABC around the clock.
Veldspar bots? Ice Bots, are you freaking STUPID?.

Mining isn't the base of the Eve economy.

miners are scum

Link is repaired.

Isk faucet known as incursions and no miners added together equals runaway inflation.

And these people were not bots, Bots are only in null, mining ABC around the clock.
Veldspar bots? Ice Bots, are you freaking STUPID?

Miners just need to smarten up, it really isnt hard. Corp mining ops anyone? Have a repping BS sit with you, make it cap stable and you dont even have to watch it. You dont even need expensive ships use T1 logi cruisers.

I think what people are complaining about is that it isnt safe to solo afk mine. This is true. If your not afk and you see a combat ship warp in close or approach you, then warp off. But if you are in groups then how hard would it be for 10 hulks to be solidly repped by two or three t1 logi cruisers or a couple of 8 hislot BSs?

Dont whine, adapt, make the people who prey on you sad, make them quit suicide ganking because YOU made them stop not because you cried until CCP changed the rules. I know which I would feel better about.

It is an MMO, if you work in teams you will survive, adapt, be stronger than your opposition. How sad would they be if your 10 Hulks were defended by a pair of cap stable perma armour repping Domi's with heavy shield repping drones prelaunched and running on everyone? Fit a DC 2 and a plate, make those hulks hard. Carry shield or armour repping drones and have them perma repping a buddy, now you are solidly spider tanked and your hulks are near invulnerable. What if you also had an insta locking Cane with you, their suicided ship now also results in a player involved lossmail, and we all know how we value our stats...

Quitting is for quitters, be smarter than your enemy.

Miners just need to smarten up, it really isnt hard. Corp mining ops anyone? Have a repping BS sit with you, make it cap stable and you dont even have to watch it. You dont even need expensive ships use T1 logi cruisers.

I think what people are complaining about is that it isnt safe to solo afk mine. This is true. If your not afk and you see a combat ship warp in close or approach you, then warp off. But if you are in groups then how hard would it be for 10 hulks to be solidly repped by two or three t1 logi cruisers or a couple of 8 hislot BSs?

Dont whine, adapt, make the people who prey on you sad, make them quit suicide ganking because YOU made them stop not because you cried until CCP changed the rules. I know which I would feel better about.

It is an MMO, if you work in teams you will survive, adapt, be stronger than your opposition. How sad would they be if your 10 Hulks were defended by a pair of cap stable perma armour repping Domi's with heavy shield repping drones prelaunched and running on everyone? Fit a DC 2 and a plate, make those hulks hard. Carry shield or armour repping drones and have them perma repping a buddy, now you are solidly spider tanked and your hulks are near invulnerable. What if you also had an insta locking Cane with you, their suicided ship now also results in a player involved lossmail, and we all know how we value our stats...

Quitting is for quitters, be smarter than your enemy.

Miners just need to smarten up, it really isnt hard. Corp mining ops anyone? Have a repping BS sit with you, make it cap stable and you dont even have to watch it. You dont even need expensive ships use T1 logi cruisers.

I think what people are complaining about is that it isnt safe to solo afk mine. This is true. If your not afk and you see a combat ship warp in close or approach you, then warp off. But if you are in groups then how hard would it be for 10 hulks to be solidly repped by two or three t1 logi cruisers or a couple of 8 hislot BSs?

Dont whine, adapt, make the people who prey on you sad, make them quit suicide ganking because YOU made them stop not because you cried until CCP changed the rules. I know which I would feel better about.

It is an MMO, if you work in teams you will survive, adapt, be stronger than your opposition. How sad would they be if your 10 Hulks were defended by a pair of cap stable perma armour repping Domi's with heavy shield repping drones prelaunched and running on everyone? Fit a DC 2 and a plate, make those hulks hard. Carry shield or armour repping drones and have them perma repping a buddy, now you are solidly spider tanked and your hulks are near invulnerable. What if you also had an insta locking Cane with you, their suicided ship now also results in a player involved lossmail, and we all know how we value our stats...

Quitting is for quitters, be smarter than your enemy.

This is only viable on paper.
Nobody, NOBODY will waste his time or effort to put up a defense fleet like that. It's just not worth it and not worth the bother.

Plus you are talking to the poorest, newbies, lowest level layer of players in game, that is exactly those who don't know about this stuff, don't have the time for this stuff, don't have the money for this stuff.

Don't go to Nigeria to teach how good is having an iPad. They can't even afford to eat.

Also, the income is so awfully BAD that all this plating this plating that get Orca here get repping Domi there just won't happen. They get 5M per hour (ice) with all out thin tank and maximum yield and can play for 2h a day yet you suggest a months long investment plan?

There is only one solution and it's to go farm incursions. It's the new purple level.

Those who can't? We did not want those new players anyway.

[I have, in high, low, and now run mining ops in null, and Rico knows what he is saying. Every word is true(tho the shield drones would be countered with smartbombs).

You are willfully ignorant, and most never going to succeed in this game if you don't get smart.

HTFU or contract me your stuff.

stuff

Miners just need to smarten up, it really isnt hard. Corp mining ops anyone? Have a repping BS sit with you, make it cap stable and you dont even have to watch it. You dont even need expensive ships use T1 logi cruisers.

I think what people are complaining about is that it isnt safe to solo afk mine. This is true. If your not afk and you see a combat ship warp in close or approach you, then warp off. But if you are in groups then how hard would it be for 10 hulks to be solidly repped by two or three t1 logi cruisers or a couple of 8 hislot BSs?

Dont whine, adapt, make the people who prey on you sad, make them quit suicide ganking because YOU made them stop not because you cried until CCP changed the rules. I know which I would feel better about.

It is an MMO, if you work in teams you will survive, adapt, be stronger than your opposition. How sad would they be if your 10 Hulks were defended by a pair of cap stable perma armour repping Domi's with heavy shield repping drones prelaunched and running on everyone? Fit a DC 2 and a plate, make those hulks hard. Carry shield or armour repping drones and have them perma repping a buddy, now you are solidly spider tanked and your hulks are near invulnerable. What if you also had an insta locking Cane with you, their suicided ship now also results in a player involved lossmail, and we all know how we value our stats...

Quitting is for quitters, be smarter than your enemy.

Mining isn't the base of the Eve economy.

Sorry, but why the hell would anyone mine when there are more interesting and less risky ways to make ISK?

The New Player Tutorial quite clearly states IN PRINT that "Mining is the Backbone of EVE and its Economy".

I agree about the Defences thing, but the other part ?..........2 year player here with 3 Bill ISK.

An Orca can be filled by 2 Macks in an hour easily, and that is 22 million at least, NOT 5 Mill.

As a relatively long term indy alt toon I have noticed something many of you are probably unaware of.

Hulks and the noob mining barges as well are vanishing from the game.
Our little neut alt corp is active in a couple of empires and many regions and are familiar with many rich mining areas that all have something new in common.

NO MINERS

Systems that once had heavy competitive pressure to get the ore are now mostly devoid of any miners whatsoever.
And this is a much bigger problem than many of you must understand.
Some mining/indy/missioning corps are now full time incursion farmers But the run of the mill, small corp afk mining noobs in a Hulk or two are fewer and farther between than I have EVER seen in nearly three years of play.
And these people were not bots, Bots are only in null, mining ABC around the clock.
Veldspar bots? Ice Bots, are you freaking STUPID?
Most hisec carebear miners/indys are less than 2 year old noobs that don't buy or sell isk. They usually take 6 months of hard work to get that Hulk that then likely as not gets ganked and they quit the game.
Or maybe they autopilot an industrial hauling a weeks worth of gametime work to a hub and that gets ganked. Same result, they quit the game.
And given the seedy and sorry reputation this game now has, guess what? There aren't any noobs out there in a Navitas learning how to mine.
Most 'noobs' these days are actually suicide ganking alts that belong to some jaded nullsec failbot corp. This game is going to fail and fail rather quickly if something isn't done pretty quick.
Nullsec is a total freaking fail. Watch this and try to see why. http://youtu.be/7zzJsA8iecA
And now hisec is swarmed with not bitter vets, but rather disillusioned thugs that dreamed of glory, but now settle for mere thuggery.
Mark my words, this game is going to fail. And when it does it will be far faster than you will imagine.

This has been going on for several months and it is getting worse, not better, not the same as always, but Worse, much worse,

The base of the Eve economy is vanishing.

A few words


1. Mining is the backbone of EVE regardless of what anyone thinks. Where do you think your ships come from. The drone poo comes from nullsec and mainly stays in nullsec. You may have some high end minerals coming to jita but once refined no one is transporting trit to Jita.

2. There is still mining happening just not as much in Caldari space. Which you look at killmails from hulkageddon They are always in Caldari space. Mining still happens in the other three empires.


3. Being smarter has nothing to do with it. If you are caught by a gank squad you are caught and there is nothing you can do about it. 10 thrashers are going to eat a hulk alive the same way that 10 gank tier 3 battle cruisers will eat a mission boat alive.


4. Normally mining is the first way that people try to make isk because its easy and being ganked for a retriever is nothing but its a fortune to a new player who has only just bought one. And changing belts to Grav sites will do nothing but make miners need extra training before they can mine. IE the osprey will become a redundant ship.


The real problem is that everyone wants to be a baddass and miners are the easiest targets to go for. They are seen as passive and week people because they are not baddass. But they are just playing the game they way that they want to. Its almost like "play my way or you suck.

Lolmining.

Also, drone poo and reprocessed mission loot provides the vast majority of the economys minerals.

And if you get ganked while mining, thats just natural selection. Being prealigned to a station/safespot and hitting warp as soon as someone comes on grid will protect you, as the ganker does not have enough time to lock you and fire before youve warped.

Miners, u mad?

You don't understand the mechanics that go into ganking a Mining barge. IMO Ganking of Tengus, Haulers is fine as in both cases there are very easy ways to defend your self. Tengus can just wait out their undock timers and redock if they see 2 Tornados sitting on a station. Even T1 haulers can use the MWD cloak trick to avoid high sec ganks and insta dock/warp bookmarks at stations.

Mining Barges on the other hand really are defenseless little lambs waiting for the big bad wolf to strike.

There is no amount of repping that will stop a Alpha from a Tornado as example from killing any mining barge. There is no safety net for miners in a group as they then just become a bigger target for a few smart bombing BS.

The simple fact is Mining barges are the perfect prey for a suicide ganker as there really is no defense aside from just staying docked and I'm saying this as someone whom has ganked several barges with only a handful of fails. (fails have only happened due to bad luck on our part but by nothing the miner did)

While I don't think CCP should nerf ganking as gankers will just find another way, they should however give real miners better ability to avoid being ganked. Perhaps add a lot more Grav sites in high sec or add something along the lines of what I mentioned above with the ability to build ships using T3's & sub system that make for much harder targets to gank.

In all honestly it should be more work to Gank a Miner than using 3 noob alts in 2 mil ISK destroyers, yet ganking it's self should not be nefed but rather countered with better options for miners. It should be a cat & mouse game and not a nerf bat..

You have NEVER mined a unit of ORE ever.[/b]

Oranges

Well, while I am ceo of a pvp corp its true, I also have two perfect mining alts, whilst we dont mine ore, we do do Ice ops, we have scouts in the two neighbouring systems, we have an orca and we have guards on site, mostly for rats but also in case someone slips a frigate in and on top of us when we are busy. We also use static bubbles on the directionals of the gates for an added layer of security. We also have combat or repping drone in or mackinaws. We usually have 10 to 15 people online in that op, around 3/4 of those are in mining barges of one sort or another.

We do the ops so that we can fuel our large number of pos's as cheaply as possible. The pilots,who are all PVPers or alts of PVPers who would much rather be doing something else, use their time without monetary compensation for this, the reward is that they are in a good corp, flying with good people, the reward is making their corp even better. They will X up every time they are asked, usually twice a month or so. If my pvpers can do it, surely an actual mining or indy corp can manage something similar?

If you are not prepared to fly as a team, and put some effort in to it, you do not deserve to be rewarded.

You don't understand the mechanics that go into ganking a Mining barge. IMO Ganking of Tengus, Haulers is fine as in both cases there are very easy ways to defend your self. Tengus can just wait out their undock timers and redock if they see 2 Tornados sitting on a station. Even T1 haulers can use the MWD cloak trick to avoid high sec ganks and insta dock/warp bookmarks at stations.

Mining Barges on the other hand really are defenseless little lambs waiting for the big bad wolf to strike.

There is no amount of repping that will stop a Alpha from a Tornado as example from killing any mining barge. There is no safety net for miners in a group as they then just become a bigger target for a few smart bombing BS.

Well, locking a system down is "easy" in nullsec/lowsec, in Highsec its another story. Scouts is possible but you are not able to delay them in any means without having concord on your ass.

[

Hi. You are very silly with that rant. All ships can be alpha'd. You can stop a tornado from aplhaing a hulk. You cant stop ship overkill from ganking you no matter what ship you are in.

I have successfully stopped ganks on myself in a mackinaw with proper tanks multiple times. I have never failed at a gank, and I have never found a miner with a proper tank.

Due to all the the gank whine threads I even asked people to be put on the safe list yesterday prior to ganking. Everyone who X'd up was marked as blue. I still found 2 marks.

cry moar, my cookies need dipped.

Ninja edit;

Align all you want pro gankers scramble.

Mineral prices would have to go up a lot to get me back to mining though.

IMO it kinda sucks that real miners don't really have a defense to ganking, but with out the ganking there would be even more bots in this game.

Miners can use the same undock timers, bookmarks and insta-warpouts as any other ship.

Barges are not somehow magically different form other ships in EVE GÇö anything tactic or technique available to other ships are available to the barge as well. The decision not to use these techniques are entirely up to the miner.

As a relatively long term indy alt toon I have noticed something many of you are probably unaware of.

Hulks and the noob mining barges as well are vanishing from the game.
Our little neut alt corp is active in a couple of empires and many regions and are familiar with many rich mining areas that all have something new in common.

NO MINERS

Systems that once had heavy competitive pressure to get the ore are now mostly devoid of any miners whatsoever.
And this is a much bigger problem than many of you must understand.
Some mining/indy/missioning corps are now full time incursion farmers But the run of the mill, small corp afk mining noobs in a Hulk or two are fewer and farther between than I have EVER seen in nearly three years of play.
And these people were not bots, Bots are only in null, mining ABC around the clock.
Veldspar bots? Ice Bots, are you freaking STUPID?
Most hisec carebear miners/indys are less than 2 year old noobs that don't buy or sell isk. They usually take 6 months of hard work to get that Hulk that then likely as not gets ganked and they quit the game.
Or maybe they autopilot an industrial hauling a weeks worth of gametime work to a hub and that gets ganked. Same result, they quit the game.
And given the seedy and sorry reputation this game now has, guess what? There aren't any noobs out there in a Navitas learning how to mine.
Most 'noobs' these days are actually suicide ganking alts that belong to some jaded nullsec failbot corp. This game is going to fail and fail rather quickly if something isn't done pretty quick.
Nullsec is a total freaking fail. Watch this and try to see why. http://youtu.be/7zzJsA8iecA
And now hisec is swarmed with not bitter vets, but rather disillusioned thugs that dreamed of glory, but now settle for mere thuggery.
Mark my words, this game is going to fail. And when it does it will be far faster than you will imagine.

This has been going on for several months and it is getting worse, not better, not the same as always, but Worse, much worse,

The base of the Eve economy is vanishing.

You appear to have zero reading & comprehension skills. I gank Mininers.. I'm just stating that it's simply far too easy to gank them and there should be more they can do to avoid being ganked. No it shouldn't be a nerf on ganking it's self but there should be some better option for miners that could help them better avoid being ganked.

The whole suicide gank thing has gotten out of hand, more often I am encountering less than year old players who've gotten hit one too many times and are ready to quit.

Bump barges, indies, freighters and Orca HP by two to three times and it will put an end to a lot of this. If there needs to be a cost balance for that, bump build requirements by two to three times as well. It still leaves space plenty dangerous, still plenty of aggro games people can play with cans and wrecks, lame use of neut RR and cheesy Orca docking bay games.

The scam situation is not much better.

I'll never fathom how some will go out of their way to scream "I hate mining! Miners are scum!". Really, what did the lowly miner ever do to you? Most people that mine know it's not the best way to make isk. They do it because it's a generally easy and mostly risk free (barring gankers) way to make a few bucks while being able to read a book, watch tv or chat with corpmates. They don't need to be "taught a lesson" that mining is a bad way to make money. Seems like just a giant case of "STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE".

Maybe these gankers never got a chance to bully little kids in real life.

Posting to confirm that RMT bots are mining away in nullsec. Right now, in fact.

I am an idiot!!!

Yeah, I can understand 14 year olds getting into the suicide gank thing. But the average player age in EO is 28.
I just don't understand the psychology of wanting to gank some guy who's minding his own business. If it's PVP people want, they can go to low sec, null sec, FW or Red vs. Blue. Or even wardec another corp FFS. Maybe it's just the tears they want. Which is just pathetic IMO. Maybe these gankers never got a chance to bully little kids in real life.

I've noticed the same thing in the systems I mine.

I'm always alone now....it's nervewracking. Scan shows only combat ships. Chat is silent where there used to be idle chatter from fellow miners. I've gone entire sessions (3 hours or so) without seeing another miner in systems that used to have many.

Well, at least there's ore now :)

What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.

That's an excuse. You can pretend that it is not if you want to, and I am sure all the "pirates", nice and safe in high sec, will agree with this old canard. Why wouldn't they? Any statement that helps tilt mechanics in their favor is always true.

I'm sure you only use the hotel mechanic in Monopoly as an excuse for griefing people with Boardwalk. You are a hypocrite.

This is a game, we don't need "an excuse" for following the rules. To imply otherwise demonstrates a lack of comprehension of the concept of gaming, to be quite frank.

Aww boo hoo, did I **** all over your canard? I'm sorry, try another one.

What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.

Thank you, your tears are delicious.

What if its piracy they want? Should they play a different game? Don't you want Eve to be a sandbox? Cipher Jones does.

I remember when we had hisec mining bots back when the ore of the day was Plagio and then Scord.
I remember when nearly every Ice system in hisec would have 150+ miners on the ice.

I recall that CCP did begin some program that turned out to be pretty effective at removing actual bots as toons that we all knew locally as bots went away and never came back.

That was well over a year ago, maybe even 2 years by now.

I also remember when hisec began to be swarmed with red flagged pilots coming in from null at the beginning of the ganking that has now become rampant.

These days you can't even dare to recruit anyone that is an unknown as they are very likely a ganker waiting for an opportunity to gank a corpmates strategic cruiser when they get a chance. It happens.

It appears that the game has tilted too far towards the killboard, which is a perverse measure of success at best and the reason to exist at all at worst.

These days rich hisec asteroid belts no longer have numerous miners in system, no noob wreck scavengers or budding ratters. No small mining frigates or mining noob cruisers.

Ice belt systems in hisec now normally have closer to a dozen miners rather than what was once ten times that number.

The bots are long gone. Stop lieing to yourselves.

Cipher Jones is a dumbass.

Bizzarely I saw a few pods too, warp in and just sit there, waiting for like 3 minutes, then warping back to a station, then reapeating this strange behaviour. Dunno what they were up to...

Cipher Jones is a dumbass.

Sure, some people gank "for the tears", but they'd be foolish to not have a friend loot and salvage. I've watched people with -10 sec status do this sort of thing repeatedly by themselves with a covops trained alt who does the warp-to and salvage.
Use 2 Destroyers and a tanked Mack or cargo-fit Hulk will still go down in the half minute you have to pop them.

Destroyers are also quick with warping. You have 20 to 30 seconds to get from 0m/s to 75%(warp) from the moment someone comes in system (on d-scan or not). If they've got a cloaked alt sitting next to you, you can kiss your ship goodbye. More often than not, the cloaky alts are quite clean for killboard stats. They look like any average non-threatening player.


tl;dr: Ganking is very profitable currently, so there's not much reason to *not* do it.

Mining is still very worthwhile as getting ships through mining and industry is way cheaper the just outright buying them

"way cheaper".....hmm, then how come when I go to produce a T3, it costs more to make it than to buy it on the market?

Not just T3, Kid.

Math off any ship or module in EVE. It's not even strategic sales where you sell the ship at cost and bleed them on the modules. Everything in the game is priced below its mineral value. Manufacturing in EVE is bankrupt. Sell the minerals, you make more ISK.

The funny part to this is you don't even need to use a covt ops. I use an alt in a salvage Dessie, with cargo/ship scanner and blatantly bump them around a bit scanning them ext..ect. I use destroyers simply because there are vultures that will try to steal the loot/salvage so u have to be quick or someone else will get it.

These so called miners that we gank can't "all" be AFK. I actually convo every single target I pick out and if they actually answer I don't gank them, just because 90% of them never answer a convo so it's a rarity.

Wait, so actual human beings actually do the exact same process 24/7 without going insane?

The reason why there is a lack of (human) miners is because of the following.

1. Mining is boring as hell, anyone who could possibly find the process of undock, shoot rock, do nothing but watch, dock up and repeat constantly probably needs their sanity checked. I heard some people mine because you can do multiple things while you mine like sell and buy on markets, manage PI, science industry etc. But I cannot believe how people just mine and nothing else. Normal people tend to realize what the hell they are doing, the others are either playing from the insane asylum or are bots.

2. Mining is irrelevant to EVE in the grand scheme of themes. Most minerals are obtained from missions or reprocessing old ships and modules.

3. Mining has little to offer. After a year or two you'll be able to fly every mining ship in EVE and they all perform the same basic function. As a result a dedicated miner can get bored of the game very quickly. The end game ship for a miner is the Orca. You could make an argument for the Rorqual but miners don't like working with others or taking risk and the ship requires you to work with others and take risks (venturing into low/null/wh).

Also the base of the EVE economy are not the miners. Do you know what would happen should all forms PVP be taken out of the game? Mining would be worthless because the number one reason for industry is the fact that people lose ships. Most people lose ships from engaging in PVP, voluntarily or involuntarily (if you don't like that EVE isn't for you). Without ships being lose as often miners would be worthless.

The base of any economy are the customers. If there are no customers there is no demand. If there is no demand there is no economy.

I've said this over a YEAR about T2 ship production, and I always get hooted down.

Glad someone else has seen the light.

Time to make babies?

As a relatively long term indy alt toon I have noticed something many of you are probably unaware of.

Hulks and the noob mining barges as well are vanishing from the game.
Our little neut alt corp is active in a couple of empires and many regions and are familiar with many rich mining areas that all have something new in common.

NO MINERS

ganking miners seems to be a case of biting the hand that feeds. you need the miners so can keep buying those ships and being foolish dumbas*ses that you are.

Where is the OP flying? the star systems around jita a full of miners.

so how you gonna get your spaceships if all miners stop mining

ganking miners seems to be a case of biting the hand that feeds. you need the miners so can keep buying those ships and being foolish dumbas*ses that you are.

He certainly is but he's still a better poster than you.

I've said this over a YEAR about T2 ship production, and I always get hooted down.

Glad someone else has seen the light.

I must be selling the wrong t2 ships and t2 modules then...

Link is repaired.

Isk faucet known as incursions and no miners added together equals runaway inflation.

Well, that depends on a couple of overall factors. I can really only speak about T3 production since it's the only production that I've examined in depth. My information is now old since the market was so bad then I've not had any reason to believe it would improve significantly.

Then WHY ON EARTH are you wasting our time and wearing out your fingers ????????????

You guys got your no insurance plan deal from CCP.. Yet you still whine?

A useless gesture. Keeping 150,000 or so ISK for a T1 out of the hands of a ganker is HARDLY discouraging.

It always amazes me how miners whine about everything. They get mostly what they want from CCP dev's to make it more difficult for gankers to do there work and for less profits.

You guys got your no insurance plan deal from CCP.. Yet you still whine?

Universe isn't a nice place. Its harsh with cold blooded killers in the dark. You want safety.. Surprisingly EVE grants you the ability to defend yourself. You can fight back or hire security.. Or put bounties on your targets..

Eve isn't about pressing the auto button and watching tv while your afking mining. Its about being there.. in the moment.. Living between life and death.

To top it off your immortal.. So what you whining about?

"Waaaaaah I'm a miner and I can't deal with change"

what if everyone stopped mining?

then prices would go up and people would start mining again because it would make financial sense!

All this "CCP must step in and make sure things stay the same" is totally against what Eve is - it is a dynamic system. Actions of players effect other players. The market changes, the smart players adapt, others run to the forums to cry.

Really? Miners whining? All I read about these days are scrubs like you that whine about miners mining. You're such a dumbass.

"Waaaaaah I'm a miner and I can't deal with change"

what if everyone stopped mining?

then prices would go up and people would start mining again because it would make financial sense!

All this "CCP must step in and make sure things stay the same" is totally against what Eve is - it is a dynamic system. Actions of players effect other players. The market changes, the smart players adapt, others run to the forums to cry.

It always amazes me how miners whine about everything. They get mostly what they want from CCP dev's to make it more difficult for gankers to do there work and for less profits.

CCP has a twisted sense of humor. Miners have gotten everything they asked for, yet each time the highsec bears who can't/won't defend themselves and cry the most end up worse off.

- Stealing from cans used to not give aggression. Now it does.
- Hopping in & out of an alliance to drop a wardec used to be an exploit. Now it's not.
- Suicide ganking no longer pays out insurance.

[Yet the mechanics of mining itself have hardly changed since the begining of EVE. CCP could start by removing most asteroid belts and turning hem into grav sites.

As a relatively long term indy alt toon I have noticed something many of you are probably unaware of.

Hulks and the noob mining barges as well are vanishing from the game.
Our little neut alt corp is active in a couple of empires and many regions and are familiar with many rich mining areas that all have something new in common.

NO MINERS

Systems that once had heavy competitive pressure to get the ore are now mostly devoid of any miners whatsoever.
And this is a much bigger problem than many of you must understand.
Some mining/indy/missioning corps are now full time incursion farmers But the run of the mill, small corp afk mining noobs in a Hulk or two are fewer and farther between than I have EVER seen in nearly three years of play.
And these people were not bots, Bots are only in null, mining ABC around the clock.
Veldspar bots? Ice Bots, are you freaking STUPID?
Most hisec carebear miners/indys are less than 2 year old noobs that don't buy or sell isk. They usually take 6 months of hard work to get that Hulk that then likely as not gets ganked and they quit the game.
Or maybe they autopilot an industrial hauling a weeks worth of gametime work to a hub and that gets ganked. Same result, they quit the game.
And given the seedy and sorry reputation this game now has, guess what? There aren't any noobs out there in a Navitas learning how to mine.
Most 'noobs' these days are actually suicide ganking alts that belong to some jaded nullsec failbot corp. This game is going to fail and fail rather quickly if something isn't done pretty quick.
Nullsec is a total freaking fail. Watch this and try to see why. http://youtu.be/7zzJsA8iecA
And now hisec is swarmed with not bitter vets, but rather disillusioned thugs that dreamed of glory, but now settle for mere thuggery.
Mark my words, this game is going to fail. And when it does it will be far faster than you will imagine.

This has been going on for several months and it is getting worse, not better, not the same as always, but Worse, much worse,

The base of the Eve economy is vanishing.

I think it's time for CCP to re-evaluate the 'safety' of the higher sec hisec systems -- and don't tout tha they are safe in 1.0 systems.. there is no money to be made there.. they need to have the opportunity to make some decent isk in relative safety if you expect them to start jumping in to bc's and charging into lowsec.

I've never heard anyone claim that miners are safe in a 1.0(except unusually dumb miners), or anywhere else. This is EVE. I dunno how it is know, but when I started, AURA told me 'Here is a ship, here is a laser, there are a couple red crosses, shoot them. Now expect to get ganked, players here will kill you' And was sent on my merry way.

Did the NPE stop telling people they can die anywhere and anytime? If not, then every one of those new players knew what he was in for, and if it was, CCP done screwed up, because you can die anywhere and anytime in EVE, and every single one of us needs to understand that.

Suicide ganking in a 1.0 system is a bannable offense.

Personally I think the easiest way to deal with this is as follows, as it makes sense within the rules of the sandbox:

Any outlaw who jumps into hisec immediately receives GCC.

This would choke and mostly end highsec ganking. if people really wanted to rat up their sec to gank something extra shiny, they easily could. but it would stop the daily **** of hulks and maks and lower prices across the board, and get more noobs sticking with the game

Personally I think the easiest way to deal with this is as follows, as it makes sense within the rules of the sandbox:

Any outlaw who jumps into hisec immediately receives GCC.

This would choke and mostly end highsec ganking. if people really wanted to rat up their sec to gank something extra shiny, they easily could. but it would stop the daily **** of hulks and maks and lower prices across the board, and get more noobs sticking with the game

CCP has a twisted sense of humor. Miners have gotten everything they asked for, yet each time the highsec bears who can't/won't defend themselves and cry the most end up worse off.

- Stealing from cans used to not give aggression. Now it does.
- Hopping in & out of an alliance to drop a wardec used to be an exploit. Now it's not.
- Suicide ganking no longer pays out insurance.

I must be slow, but how do the last two make miners "worse" off?

Suicide ganking in a 1.0 system is a bannable offense.

Suicide ganking in a 1.0 system is a bannable offense.
Try to keep up.

Personally I think the easiest way to deal with this is as follows, as it makes sense within the rules of the sandbox:

Any outlaw who jumps into hisec immediately receives GCC.

This would choke and mostly end highsec ganking. if people really wanted to rat up their sec to gank something extra shiny, they easily could. but it would stop the daily **** of hulks and maks and lower prices across the board, and get more noobs sticking with the game

The problem is that the average PvP'er is literally too dumb to live, also.

The fact that it's so popular to gank miners says to me that these folks are plain old bored to tears with other aspects of the game.

Unfortunately that is completely wrong. It has nothing to do with boredom. They are ganking miners for one or both of two reasons.
1) It's very profitable to do so within the current game mechanics
2) Because they enjoy the reactions they get out of the players they do it to.

I hate to say it, but I fully agree.. As much as my corp gets lols out of blowing miners to ****, all it is doing is driving new players away from the game for a handful of lols. .

Nullsec is a blobfest, dominated by massive alliances where individual players are like worker ants. Lowsec is just useless anarchy. Highsec is where the game is (for the non-worker ant players) these days, as sad as that is. Everyone who can't get into alliance style gameplay is there.

Forgot one:
3. Because they're botting.

Awww...you think mining is the only source of minerals. How cute.

I have to say this has been a decent thread for Eve forums.

Many of you understand exactly what I was trying to point out and stated your opinions quite well. Others are, well, the actual problem.

Face it killers. Most miners are clueless noobs in a Hulk. The Hulk is a relatively easy ship to get into and for a non-missioning solo miner or micro corpy, a real isk maker. You killers understand just exactly how clueless that is right? Noob miners don't.

It usually takes them a while to go stir crazy from endless mining and start to branch out into other parts of the game.

You see them as bots. They are in fact afk noobs.

Ganking drives them from the game and they don't come back.

Thanks to you all that actually get this.


pppphhhhhht to you thugs that don't, or don't care.

And er, my suggestion is that CCP takes the moon materials out of a Hulk build. Make it totally hisec material makeable like an Orca.

Idiots?

You ever been to null?

As a relatively long term indy alt toon I have noticed something many of you are probably unaware of.

Hulks and the noob mining barges as well are vanishing from the game.
Our little neut alt corp is active in a couple of empires and many regions and are familiar with many rich mining areas that all have something new in common.

NO MINERS

Systems that once had heavy competitive pressure to get the ore are now mostly devoid of any miners whatsoever.
And this is a much bigger problem than many of you must understand.
Some mining/indy/missioning corps are now full time incursion farmers But the run of the mill, small corp afk mining noobs in a Hulk or two are fewer and farther between than I have EVER seen in nearly three years of play.
And these people were not bots, Bots are only in null, mining ABC around the clock.
Veldspar bots? Ice Bots, are you freaking STUPID?
Most hisec carebear miners/indys are less than 2 year old noobs that don't buy or sell isk. They usually take 6 months of hard work to get that Hulk that then likely as not gets ganked and they quit the game.
Or maybe they autopilot an industrial hauling a weeks worth of gametime work to a hub and that gets ganked. Same result, they quit the game.
And given the seedy and sorry reputation this game now has, guess what? There aren't any noobs out there in a Navitas learning how to mine.
Most 'noobs' these days are actually suicide ganking alts that belong to some jaded nullsec failbot corp. This game is going to fail and fail rather quickly if something isn't done pretty quick.
Nullsec is a total freaking fail. Watch this and try to see why. http://youtu.be/7zzJsA8iecA
And now hisec is swarmed with not bitter vets, but rather disillusioned thugs that dreamed of glory, but now settle for mere thuggery.
Mark my words, this game is going to fail. And when it does it will be far faster than you will imagine.

This has been going on for several months and it is getting worse, not better, not the same as always, but Worse, much worse,

The base of the Eve economy is vanishing.

For eight years I've watched mining slowly decline. When I first started low sec mining was well worth the risk and mining was something folks respected. Ganking like we see today was virtually impossible and small mining corps flourished. Now miners are treated like some sort of underclass and mining in low sec is crazy bad in terms of the risk and reward. In those eight years the only thing besides the slow nerfing of ore and the huge increase in the types and power of ships to explode our barges we've seen two large ships, one, the RoQ, that most miners will never get to use.

So CCP really needs to take some time and give mining and overhaul!

Mining needs to be made more fun and challenging!

Issler

This game makes people think it's all ponies and ribbons with the high-secs, huh?

huge increase in the types and power of ships to explode our barges we've seen two large ships, one, the RoQ, that most miners will never get to use.

Yeah, really need some kind of mining supercap so miners can participare in Supercapitals online.

Mining super drones !!

They can only fit in the Orca/Rorqual ship hangar, have the same yeld than 2 hulks per drone, plus, drones can bomb any enemy trying to do whatever on ya and rep you if you take dmg. You can carry for about 200 and deploy as much as you carry.

The downside is that depending on the GM and how many reports you are victim of, you might be ban without reason or with a reason taht even the GM is incapable to understand since you can probably be a bot or not, so depending on the GM and his humour you might or might not get a butt kick.

Thx for reading this trash

When people talk about EvE they always say its a game where individual players can make a difference. Maybe that was before these massive alliances took over null?

And er, my suggestion is that CCP takes the moon materials out of a Hulk build. Make it totally hisec material makeable like an Orca.

What problem are you trying to solve?

I also don't understand the hate for the miners in this game. I don't know why I do it, but mining is something I can really grab on to. I like to produce things. I like industry. Even my IRL job reflects these tendencies. Does that make me less of a player than some of you? Do I need to kill other people in order to fully enjoy the game?

I most certainly plan to branch out in to pvp when the money and skill is there, that is why I'm in the University. Until then, can I not be considered a second class citizen?

As a relatively long term indy alt toon I have noticed something many of you are probably unaware of.

Hulks and the noob mining barges as well are vanishing from the game.

request the op to change the title to

"Stupid Miners, Darwin at work."

In all seriousness though

Ore bay for all mining ships.

remove massive cargo bays.

Make sure the cargo expanders dont work on the ore bays.

This will force the miners to put something other than cargo expanders.

60 mil isk in 20 minutes is not an isk faucet?

2) Make Rorquals be able to fit capital strip miners, so miners have an actual incentive to mine in low/null.
'

Well, while I am ceo of a pvp corp its true, I also have two perfect mining alts, whilst we dont mine ore, we do do Ice ops, we have scouts in the two neighbouring systems, we have an orca and we have guards on site, mostly for rats but also in case someone slips a frigate in and on top of us when we are busy. We also use static bubbles on the directionals of the gates for an added layer of security. We also have combat or repping drone in or mackinaws. We usually have 10 to 15 people online in that op, around 3/4 of those are in mining barges of one sort or another.

We do the ops so that we can fuel our large number of pos's as cheaply as possible. The pilots,who are all PVPers or alts of PVPers who would much rather be doing something else, use their time without monetary compensation for this, the reward is that they are in a good corp, flying with good people, the reward is making their corp even better. They will X up every time they are asked, usually twice a month or so. If my pvpers can do it, surely an actual mining or indy corp can manage something similar?

If you are not prepared to fly as a team, and put some effort in to it, you do not deserve to be rewarded.

Common misconception.

CAN != WILL

An individual player can change the game, look at the Mittani, or Chribba. Just because you can doesn't mean you will, and people don't seem to understand that.

I know I personally have changed the course of the game, by providing a pivotal role as a logi pilot, which has cause my guys to win fights we would not have(sometimes even in the face of superior odds!) yet I am one of the nullsec 'drones', not even a corp officer(tho I did get my CEO to name me official shiptoaster of our corp ).

If you think you can't make a difference in the game, its just through a lack of personal imagination and ambition.

Unfortunately that is completely wrong. It has nothing to do with boredom. They are ganking miners for one or both of two reasons.
1) It's very profitable to do so within the current game mechanics
2) Because they enjoy the reactions they get out of the players they do it to.

Miners just need to smarten up, it really isnt hard. Corp mining ops anyone? Have a repping BS sit with you, make it cap stable and you dont even have to watch it. You dont even need expensive ships use T1 logi cruisers.

I think what people are complaining about is that it isnt safe to solo afk mine. This is true. If your not afk and you see a combat ship warp in close or approach you, then warp off. But if you are in groups then how hard would it be for 10 hulks to be solidly repped by two or three t1 logi cruisers or a couple of 8 hislot BSs?

Dont whine, adapt, make the people who prey on you sad, make them quit suicide ganking because YOU made them stop not because you cried until CCP changed the rules. I know which I would feel better about.

It is an MMO, if you work in teams you will survive, adapt, be stronger than your opposition. How sad would they be if your 10 Hulks were defended by a pair of cap stable perma armour repping Domi's with heavy shield repping drones prelaunched and running on everyone? Fit a DC 2 and a plate, make those hulks hard. Carry shield or armour repping drones and have them perma repping a buddy, now you are solidly spider tanked and your hulks are near invulnerable. What if you also had an insta locking Cane with you, their suicided ship now also results in a player involved lossmail, and we all know how we value our stats...

Quitting is for quitters, be smarter than your enemy.

OK, if I'm wrong, you are saying that one of the best (most exciting) and very profitable playstyles in EvE is to go around punking mining boats? That's pretty damned lame for a game as complex as EvE.

As a career industrialist, I just don't see the appeal in doing that at all. Maybe, I just have the wrong mindset for that activity.

Plate... on a hulk? *sigh*

Secondly, revamp mining so that it can be done passive...

What problem are you trying to solve?

OK, if I'm wrong, you are saying that one of the best (most exciting) and very profitable playstyles in EvE is to go around punking mining boats? That's pretty damned lame for a game as complex as EvE.

As a career industrialist, I just don't see the appeal in doing that at all. Maybe, I just have the wrong mindset for that activity.

Let them mount Deep Core Miners, and remove Moon POS's. People complain about miners being AFK, but moon mining is far worse, you don't even have to be logged in.

All resource harvesting should be done by a pilot in a ship.

Well, I sort of categorized that under #2, but I'll admit that bot tears generally involve some investigation outside of Eve, which may not be worth the effort. So, yes, botting is a valid reason.

Plate... on a hulk? *sigh*

Sure, and I've made tens of thousands of hobgoblins which I sold on the market to other players, so I've changed the game too

There's no question that personal drive plays a role, and that folks like Chribba and Mittani have changed the game in a big way, but seriously, what percentage of the playerbase gets into these roles? Do you think you can play casually and be a Mittani?