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Unity Love
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:32:00 -
[331]
 Originally by: Fulber
You could have asked someone in-game to QFT quote you instead of having to do it yourself. Or, you could have selected the right character when posting the QFT.
Epic spot lol.
Originally by: Xindi Kraid
First of all there aren't any ships designed for POS construction or resupply. Second, why shouldn't I use the Orca for that purpose? Why should I bring out a freighter that costs twice as much and is 5 times slower just to end up wasting half of the cargo space when the orca will serve that purpose just fine?
Great use it for that. But don't demand changes to make it into something to suit your purposes.
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RC Denton
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:37:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Tallonn Dex
I have to admit, like many others, I am a bit underwhelmed with the stats for this ship, so far. It's a great attempt, but still feels like it falls short of being anything other than a mediocre ship.
First, it doesn't really bridge the gap between freighter and industrial. Depending on your set-up, it will only haul what 2-3 Itty V's will haul, and the ship bay is limited to BCs or less. I don't see that as being a 'mini freighter', so much as it being a 'sligthly larger' industrial. The comment from the blog is silly - of course you're still going to need haulers. ;) I don't see how this ship would replace the need for them.
The ship bay also seems too small. I read the CCP rep's response and it appears this was done intentionally to prevent rigged BS's from being hauled. If that's the case, then sadly, I don't see the ship bay size being enlarged all that much.
Next, I think a requirement for Barge V is silly. Essentially you have to have a Hulk pilot in this thing, and it seems counter-productive to require that. Does the math for a Mining Link specialist justify the loss of a Hulk pilot to run this ship? Regardless, I think Transport IV would make a lot more sense than Barge V, but that's just my opinion. If it's supposed to be a command ship/hauler hybrid, it would make more sense to require those types of skills - not mining skills.
I am personally ok with the drone bay size. I wouldnt use one of these ships solo, and with other ships around to take care of rats, I wouldn't be too worried about it's offensive capabilities. It would be nice if this thing could tank as easily as a Hulk, at least, so another mid-slot would be appreciated.
After Chronotis's explanation about the mining link operation, I am fine now with the number of high slots.
Really, I think this ship only falls short in capacity (both in its regular cargo hold and the ship bay) and in regards to its skill requirements to fly.
These are just my opinions, though. :)
I agree. If the ship can use 3 gang mods then it definitely goes up a notch, but even so.
- The cargo bay is too small. It should be around the size of a JF
- What's the purpose of a corp hangar on it? If you have haulers haul from it why not haul directly from the miners? Unless they are planning on removing jetcan mining
- Cost/utility seems out of balance. It's basically a larger iteron 5 with some gang links. If it's geared towards high sec there's really no problem that this is solving. And at 400M it's very expensive
- It gets no RR or other logistics bonus's to help the mining gang
- It can't tank for the gang if the cap recharge is reduced
- What's the point of a ship bay with no jump drive or clone bay? Almost all high sec mining spots have stations
- Cannot compress ore such as veld
So basically I don't see the role that this ship fits.
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Menthal
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:38:00 -
[333]
What about 4th highslot? 2 gang links and 2 tractors would be good to keep most mining ops running decently, offc that's hoping that a freighter might interact with the orca
pretty yellow beams
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Esme Calladine
Ramm's RDI
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:39:00 -
[334]
I assume though that your command ship pilot isn't doing the hauling also? so you have a ship giving bonuses, and a ship hauling.
From how I see the Orca, they have tried to combine the two roles, but it just doesn't work.
you either want a ship to stay put and give bonuses, or haul, not both. I agree you could have tractors on the command ship and not the hauler, but if you could, would you not rather have the command ship commanding, and the hauler hauling? why does the command ship need to waste its high slots? Give em guns and let them unleash hell :)
I don't really want 400mils worth of paper thin ship sitting in belt, unless its cloaked :D Get in there, empty the jet cans, and then get the hell out of dodge :)
I do agree on the haulage job, no one likes it at all! But isn't that part of the wonder of the Orca? :D They don't have to sit and wait helplessly, now they can haul over 3 jet cans of ore, or sit and wait cloaked :D Or run an XL booster long enough to empty a load of cans and get back to a station :)
I know the whole macro thing is a really touchy subject, I didn't really want to add it in, but it does seem kind of important. I don't really see them using the Orca, due to the gankability. A hulk is pretty cheap to replace now, but is an Orca?
I cant really comment on the freighter bit, as I haven't tried it. Has anyone confirmed that a freighter can collect ore from the Orca? If it can, that's a major result right there :)
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Odhinn Vinlandii
Shadows of the Dead
Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:40:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Fulber
You could have asked someone in-game to QFT quote you instead of having to do it yourself. Or, you could have selected the right character when posting the QFT.
No, that would be less smarmy and out side my character. |
Xindi Kraid
Cerulean Sky Fire Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.24 22:51:00 -
[336]
I have a question for all of you who keep saying "let the freighter dock with it": Do you really, honestly want to leave your freighters in the belt for the time it will take to fill the freighter? An alternative option would be to get 2 orcas. It's cheaper and the second orca will let you bring more ships out. Set one Orca on command and the other as a hauler, problem solved |
Dr Prometheus
Caldari
Gears of Construction
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:03:00 -
[337]
Edited by: Dr Prometheus on 24/10/2008 23:03:37
Well, make an orca clone, make it 1.5 times bigger call it The Dolphin and give it 300k cargospace, new texture on the thing make it cost around 500 mill. And voila Mini-freighter (Heavy Industrial Ship) has born. And for people realy wanting to transport ships; give the Freighters one high slot wich can have a "Ship Maintenance Bay Upgrade Module" your freighter bay turns into a ship maintenance bay and can only transport ships. so;
- Orca as Command Ship / Bufferhauler / Rigged Hulk transporter
- Dolphin as "Industrial Transport Logistics Ship"
- Freighters able to refit to a "carrier". |
Leumas Kharzim
Amarr
Intaki Armaments
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:03:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Xindi Kraid
I have a question for all of you who keep saying "let the freighter dock with it": Do you really, honestly want to leave your freighters in the belt for the time it will take to fill the freighter? An alternative option would be to get 2 orcas. It's cheaper and the second orca will let you bring more ships out. Set one Orca on command and the other as a hauler, problem solved
So, just for laughs, lets say I do actually want to leave a freighter in the belt and have it loading from the Orca.
What would it mean for the rest of the game if freighters could interact with ship based corporate hangars? |
talara kokale
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:11:00 -
[339]
ok there is something i have to say, (now dont get me wrong i love the look and idea of this ship) but the training for it is too small i feel.
i read that mining barge 5 is a pre-req, and another person said this is not the right attrib, maybe leadership 5, and mining forman 5, science 5/engineering 5. just trying to think of something different from the perc/will power train that seems to bog this game down.
this feels alot like a free handover to ppl that have also trained for hulks, (i am also currently flying a hulk).
but anyway, yeh the skill training in my opionion is way to small for this ship. it needs something else to stop everyone getting one within a week or so of them being released. make it a challenge, after all it is a semi-CAPITAL ship, not a t2 or normal bs class ship.
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Kalderion Mar
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:11:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Esme Calladine
I assume though that your command ship pilot isn't doing the hauling also? so you have a ship giving bonuses, and a ship hauling.
From how I see the Orca, they have tried to combine the two roles, but it just doesn't work.
you either want a ship to stay put and give bonuses, or haul, not both. I agree you could have tractors on the command ship and not the hauler, but if you could, would you not rather have the command ship commanding, and the hauler hauling? why does the command ship need to waste its high slots? Give em guns and let them unleash hell :)
I don't really want 400mils worth of paper thin ship sitting in belt, unless its cloaked :D Get in there, empty the jet cans, and then get the hell out of dodge :)
I do agree on the haulage job, no one likes it at all! But isn't that part of the wonder of the Orca? :D They don't have to sit and wait helplessly, now they can haul over 3 jet cans of ore, or sit and wait cloaked :D Or run an XL booster long enough to empty a load of cans and get back to a station :)
I know the whole macro thing is a really touchy subject, I didn't really want to add it in, but it does seem kind of important. I don't really see them using the Orca, due to the gankability. A hulk is pretty cheap to replace now, but is an Orca?
I cant really comment on the freighter bit, as I haven't tried it. Has anyone confirmed that a freighter can collect ore from the Orca? If it can, that's a major result right there :)
Yep, thats correct, the command ship pilot stays in system to keep the bonus's going while haulers run back and forth like rats to a grain bin...
In highsec, a command ship unleashing hell is usually kinda short lived with the exception of can flippers with friends, that can get interesting :) Its usually easier to just ignore the rats and let them beat on the hulks in futile aggression..
The beauty of the Orca, yes,as it stands, it will give the best bonus's so there wont be any hauling done with it in "our" camp. 4 hulks pumping out over 2000m3 per beam per cycle wont be easy to keep up with...
while I agree, it has many possibilities, and would like to see CCP make the best of all of those possibilities, my personal hope, that it would make the more tedious part of mining/hauling a little more easy to deal with is yet to manifest.
i agree with sitting that thing in a 0.0 belt is somewhat of a bad idea, but then, ive had my Rorq in a few belts, and that my friend can quickly stand your hair on end when Intel is slow :P I'm WAY too old for that, My wife would laugh so hard she would wet her pants if i had a heart attack in my chair playing a "stupid Computer game" |
Xindi Kraid
Cerulean Sky Fire Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:12:00 -
[341]
Edited by: Xindi Kraid on 24/10/2008 23:12:05
Originally by: Leumas Kharzim
So, just for laughs, lets say I do actually want to leave a freighter in the belt and have it loading from the Orca.
Then just for laughs I would watch as somone blows it up while the rest of the mining fleet makes it's escape to saftey
Quote:
What would it mean for the rest of the game if freighters could interact with ship based corporate hangars?
That would be awesome, but most of the comments were regarding the Orca, not capship corp hangars in general |
Kalderion Mar
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:25:00 -
[342]
Edited by: Kalderion Mar on 24/10/2008 23:28:16
Originally by: talara kokale
ok there is something i have to say, (now dont get me wrong i love the look and idea of this ship) but the training for it is too small i feel.
i read that mining barge 5 is a pre-req, and another person said this is not the right attrib, maybe leadership 5, and mining forman 5, science 5/engineering 5. just trying to think of something different from the perc/will power train that seems to bog this game down.
this feels alot like a free handover to ppl that have also trained for hulks, (i am also currently flying a hulk).
but anyway, yeh the skill training in my opionion is way to small for this ship. it needs something else to stop everyone getting one within a week or so of them being released. make it a challenge, after all it is a semi-CAPITAL ship, not a t2 or normal bs class ship.
Most of those skills wont matter, there are people that have them already, like me, I think there will be a big boom, and that it will drop off just as sharply. everyone wants a new toy, but when the newness wears off it wont get used as much. I do think it will get used a lot more than the / my Rorq...
WTS slightly used Rorq, battery is dead, tires flat, mice have chewed the wiring, but would be great for a restoration project!
Edit; NO the freighter cannot interact with the Orca in space. The idea of TWO Orcas has some merit, that is something i hadnt thought of!! |
Kesper North
Caldari
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration
Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:32:00 -
[343]
Here's an interesting question for the devs: Will Orcas be able to use l4 mission acceleration gates, so people can get at those missions that have mineable ores in them? |
talara kokale
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:36:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Kalderion Mar
Edited by: Kalderion Mar on 24/10/2008 23:28:16
Most of those skills wont matter, there are people that have them already, like me, I think there will be a big boom, and that it will drop off just as sharply. everyone wants a new toy, but when the newness wears off it wont get used as much. I do think it will get used a lot more than the / my Rorq...
WTS slightly used Rorq, battery is dead, tires flat, mice have chewed the wiring, but would be great for a restoration project!
Edit; NO the freighter cannot interact with the Orca in space. The idea of TWO Orcas has some merit, that is something i hadnt thought of!!
this is very true, but it would be nice to see ccp consider ppl who have naff perc/will attribs when designing something that is obviously not combat based.
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Leumas Kharzim
Amarr
Intaki Armaments
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:37:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Xindi Kraid
Edited by: Xindi Kraid on 24/10/2008 23:12:05
Originally by: Leumas Kharzim
What would it mean for the rest of the game if freighters could interact with ship based corporate hangars?
That would be awesome, but most of the comments were regarding the Orca, not capship corp hangars in general
Yeah, I realize that.
I am primarily talking about the Orca and freighter interacting, but if you open it up to one, why not all?
I would be interested in a discussion on it. New thread.
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TCL987
Gallente
Hannibals Pirates
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:38:00 -
[346]
When will people be given the skills needed on SISI?
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McFly
C0LDFIRE
RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.24 23:53:00 -
[347]
For people who still haven't heard or dont read my posts in this and other topics...
No Freighters cannot pull from the orca. I tested it on SiSi and got a message that a freighter can only scoop when in range of A: POS and B: Outpost Platform.
If you want to test it, u need to get on SiSi and go to FD-MLJ. That is where the skill/ship/bpo was seeded.
--McFly-- |
Kalderion Mar
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Posted - 2008.10.25 00:09:00 -
[348]
Aye McFly... err, sorry...
I did read your post, and TYVM for testing that, much appreciated!
Good idea with the freighter too.
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ChaoticDemon
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Posted - 2008.10.25 01:58:00 -
[349]
I would prefer not to have to train barge 5 but makes sense also instead of mining director 1 I do agree with warfare link spec 4 Also I spent a very long time training for command ships on my alt would love to have this but would like at least same tank ability as a command ship or bs at least a few more mid slots and 5 highs 3 links tractor salvager would be great get all bonuses and can clean belt or ability to fit command processor for additional links
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Slinkus Gallentus
Gallente
Infinite Order
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Posted - 2008.10.25 02:10:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Administrator Cain
Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus
Hmm, well a ship maint. bay with 400km3 isnt going to hold more than one rigged-battleship. So what would be the point of using it to haul rigged battleships? Might as well just fly the battleship!
They never said rigged battleships just rigged ships, so everything sub battleship that rigged can still be moved.
They said "rigged ships" not "rigged ships except battleships".
As I stated, I may have 3 or 4 rigged battleships. It aint helping. QED.
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Slinkus Gallentus
Gallente
Infinite Order
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Posted - 2008.10.25 02:13:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Checkis Khan
The whole idea is that you could fit your rigged Hulks in it, and fly in your battleships, Battlecruisers, or whatever you want there, next to the Orca. (They would serve as an escort as well)
See it as a way to deploy a complete Mining op in one go.
Why would I need an escort in hi-sec?
It said "to help with the problem of moving rigged ships about". Battleships have rigs as well. If it can only move one then it aint helping.
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Erosi
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Posted - 2008.10.25 03:02:00 -
[352]
Wonder why you guys didnt consider doing two types of the industrial command ships (there is two versions of every other commandship), leave the orca the way it is (plus earlier suggested changes) and make another that is 100% for rigged ship transport (no cargohold or module slots) only a ship array.
I know that as a mission runner i would enjoy having a ship that would transfer all my missioning ships around.
Thats my two cents. |
Administrator Cain
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Posted - 2008.10.25 03:09:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus
They said "rigged ships" not "rigged ships except battleships".
As I stated, I may have 3 or 4 rigged battleships. It aint helping. QED.
Actually they did say that it was intentional that it can't carry battleships, I'll try to find a link. |
Zeba
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.25 04:15:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Erosi
Wonder why you guys didnt consider doing two types of the industrial command ships (there is two versions of every other commandship), leave the orca the way it is (plus earlier suggested changes) and make another that is 100% for rigged ship transport (no cargohold or module slots) only a ship array.
I know that as a mission runner i would enjoy having a ship that would transfer all my missioning ships around.
Thats my two cents.
Indeed. Make the Orca a dedicated high sec mining command ship then make a new racial mini-freighter with ~300k m3 max cargobay with a 2/2/1 slot 3 rig layout and a maintainence bay that can store 1 rigged bs and enought leftover m3 to pack in an additional amount of rigged ships just short of a second bs.  |
StryderII
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Posted - 2008.10.25 04:45:00 -
[355]
After looking at projected statistics for this ship, it seems like a dream come true for Hi sec miners and the gang bonus % hike is nice.
I was hoping CCP would tweak the Rorqual and not have to use Heavy Water to get its bonus's.
Also with all these new Capitals in game and mineral requirements. Does CCP have in mind a Super Freighter for all that trit?
Or possibly a way to compress minerals as well for transport?
Thank you for any feedback |
Krylon Rhae
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Posted - 2008.10.25 05:19:00 -
[356]
Edited by: Krylon Rhae on 25/10/2008 05:20:53
I posted this in another thread and thought it would be good here as well.... your thoughts.
I had been hoping that this ship would allow it to sit in the belt with my hulks and stuff itself with ore to avoid the need to run back and forth to station/POS and save some hauling time and effort... essentially replacing the hauler.
As it is currently configured, the total storage area is just shy of 3 Iteron V hauler loads with a very large ship maintenance bay sitting there idle and unused during the op.
I was sleeping on this idea and would like to throw this out for an airing. What if we had the ability to install special storage containers in the ship maintenance bay to allow them to hold ore during and extended op. The storage cans could be 100k each and could be added and delelted to meet the required need of the time. This would allow the orca to sit in system for a very long time and gorge itself on ore. The ore could then be placed into the corp hanger and then moved to the storage containers.
I am simply looking for a way to extend the usability of this ship and keep it on station providing boost and storage for as long a time as possible.
[Edit]... had another take on the storage issue. What if the entire ship cargo/storage area was configurable based upon a corps needs at the moment. What if the +/-90k m3, 30-40k m3 and 400k m3 could be reconfigured before undocking (perhaps at a cost and delay) so that the ship could be reconfigured to have a cargo bay of 10k, and ship maintemance bay of 0k and a corp hanger with the balance. This allows the ship to be configured for in belt use. It could be reconfigured to a ship hauler by moving all the area into the maintenance hanger. If you are transporting goods you could reconfigure to have all the area in the cargo hold.
Now this is real flexibility but would come at a cost (basically to pay the station crew to change the ship configuration) and a delay in time (perhaps it takes 10-minutes to accomplish) before undocking.
Just some random thoughts... |
Raw Figmo
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Posted - 2008.10.25 06:35:00 -
[357]
 Hmmm,,, Looks like a  "Fail Freighter" to me. Anyone who thinks for one second that high sec mining pays off is on drugs. You'll never make your GTC quota in time, especially with ice prices so low anymore. If you are gonna make a mini Rorqual then it had better compare to running lvl 4's solo. That means the Orca would need to go low sec at least.
Maybe it doesn't need to have fighter drones, but it does need to have a drone bay like a dominix. (the DPS you do is half your defense) and with 3 mid slots, your gonna need an act of god and 10 disciples to survive. Problem is, your thinking small freighter with a few slots, when you should be thinking battleship with a large cargo hold and maybe a shield transfer bonus. And don't tell me a ship with 50k hull has a 10k shield, that would essentially make all the engineering skills I worked forever on null and void. The tank doesn't seem properly proportional to me, and there is no good ore in high sec. That's why I call it the Fail Freighter.
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Xindi Kraid
Cerulean Sky Fire Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.25 07:02:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Krylon Rhae
something about reconfiguring the bays
Now thats an interesting idea that might warrant an extra thread. I would like to be able to tweak the bay sizes even if it is only through rigs.
Which makes me think, If we have cargo bay rigs why not maint bay rigs and corp hangar rigs for cap ships?
-So says Xindi Kraid
Dear devs: Sign here
initial here
here
and here |
Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.25 07:53:00 -
[359]
sorry but rigged expanded orca can acompany 10 hulks for like 8 minutes? Whats the point?
I t need at least cargo for 30 minutes. It needs to fit at least 1 rigged bs. Or it will end as freighter for poor.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg
guide ninja edited already
hidden topic: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&thread |
Cloned S0ul
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Posted - 2008.10.25 08:28:00 -
[360]
Boost the Orca,more cargo for our new baby,Free Orca 
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