Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 23 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:24:00 -
[61]
This ship is obviously going to be used, even if it is released to TQ with the current stats. I'm sure there may be some tweaks in the next month or so before the expansion (I'd like to see barge 5 notched down a little, like others I am not an industrialist or a miner but I often help with logistics and hauling and would be happy sitting in this ship, transport 5 sounds like a good one to swap out barge 5 for)
Yeah, I can see people are complaining already because it isn't an uber boat that does every little thing they were expecting but that doesn't mean this isn't a decent ship- 140km bubble of tractor range, 90k+ cargohold and corp hanger/ship maintainence bay already make it a superbly attractive option for mining operations. |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:26:00 -
[62]
Needs a large enough ship bay to carry a single rigged BS.
Needs more highs- just go for it and give it eight highs. It won't hurt anything. Three highs is just horrible. |
Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:27:00 -
[63]
If you want a mini freighter, buy a jump freighter. This is more versatile. |
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:28:00 -
[64]
Thumbs Up:
- New mining ship!
- Introduces effectively a sub-capital class; those ships which require some capital components, but can fly in hihg-sec and do other things, etc. I secretly hope CCP opens this up to other sub-capital ship roles
- Bonuses a go go
- Good cargo capacity
Thumbs Down:
- This has a worrying amount of bonuses that it doesn't need.
Huge cargo makes it a replacement to freighters; people have been using industrials on mining ops for aeons, this doesn't need fixing this much. Ship carrying capacity makes it a replacement for empire carriers; ok, so carriers cant fly in high-sec anyway - but perhaps we need a dedicated ship transport.
- I don't see why this is a sub-capital, and not in the same 'tier' as other command ships. Something the size of a battlecruiser, without the cargo 'gimmicks' would have been fine for empire use.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
loki gallach
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:29:00 -
[65]
Edited by: loki gallach on 23/10/2008 17:31:00 Be nice to have bonus for astrometrics I.E. scan probe launchers. and slightly larger ship maintenance bay.
But all in all
Now just need to find NICE BIG grav site
|
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:31:00 -
[66]
Originally by: loki gallach Be nice to have bonus for astrometrics I.E. scan probe launchers. and slightly larger ship maintenance bay.
But all in all
What you say kinda reminds me....
Having single race-generic, specialised, ships are fine. Just look at what we've achieved with minind barges.
The same needs to be applied accross the board. What about a dedicated survey/salvage ship from SOE?
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Una D
Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:34:00 -
[67]
Originally by: FireFoxx80 Edited by: FireFoxx80 on 23/10/2008 17:31:31
Originally by: loki gallach Be nice to have bonus for astrometrics I.E. scan probe launchers. and slightly larger ship maintenance bay.
But all in all
What you say kinda reminds me....
Having single race-generic, specialised, ships are fine. Just look at what we've achieved with mining barges.
The same needs to be applied accross the board. What about a dedicated survey/salvage ship from SOE?
That is the problem with orca. It is not specilaised enough. Make 2 ships. 1 mining support command ship (mineral compression is a must. No go without that) and one high sec carrier. That way they can actually do well in their intended roles instead of being sucky at both. |
Karina Bellac
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:34:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Caiman Graystock If you want a mini freighter, buy a jump freighter. This is more versatile.
And there's me thinking CCP stated the Orca was meant to bridge the gap between industrials and freighters. Some sort of "mini freighter". |
Sean Mcarthur
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:36:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Sean Mcarthur on 23/10/2008 17:48:38 Seems cool enough. I have never had any problem with running out of cap in mining sesions, and as one of the mining link gives lower cap use on mining lasers, that is the one link to go so it can have a tractor. I think this is the setup you will se in high sek: An orca lands in the middle of the belt, has 2 links to boost it's mining friends, and then they can mine and jetison cans. The Orca will tractor cans to it and take the ore, which it will then transfer to its corp hangar. Dedicated haulers only need to jump to orca, take from corp hangar and leave again. NOT using gang links on this one seem wasted, as it (afaik) is the only (high sec)ship to give bonus to mining links so will give the highest bonus allround. And you won't haul with it as that will turn of booster modules and thereby reduce efficiency for the whole operation. Seems perfekt to medium scale mining ops (1 booster, 2-6 miners, 1 or 2 haulers) Just my 2 isk.
|
Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:41:00 -
[70]
Quote: And there's me thinking CCP stated the Orca was meant to bridge the gap between industrials and freighters. Some sort of "mini freighter".
It still fulfils that role with upwards of 100km3 of space. |
|
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:43:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Karina Bellac
Originally by: Caiman Graystock If you want a mini freighter, buy a jump freighter. This is more versatile.
And there's me thinking CCP stated the Orca was meant to bridge the gap between industrials and freighters. Some sort of "mini freighter".
Yeah, but a mini freighter (~100km3) should be dedicated. Not part of another role. CCP have opened up an interesting avenue with this sub-capital concept. They just need to make better use of it. At the moment the Orca is a jack of all trades.
*By sub-capital I mean something that's constructed using capital components, is allowed in high-sec, jump incapable**, but doesn't require Advanced Spaceship Command to fly.
**Having a dedicated jump portal ship - NOT CACK OPS - is still on my wishlist.
|
Mikal Drey
Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:48:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Mikal Drey on 23/10/2008 17:54:08 hey hey
initially looks nice and well thought out. I have doubts that the corp hanger will suffice for mining ops as typically 1 barge can fill a single can in about 12 minutes.
with such a small corp bay there is still a need for a gang of haullers to drop ore to the station. ore compression or the ability for a freighter to access the corp bay would be helpfull.
just like the rorqual i would much prefer a non mining ship to NOT have barge skill requirements. if you got barge V then i would prefer you in the belt in a hulk Id much prefer more focus towards industrial/command skills than barge/command skillset. I just dont understand the logic of mining skills for an essentially non mining industrial logistics ship.
if it had a salvaging bonus it would make an awesome salvaging ship :) (BTW want theese too )
|
Ricky1989
Caldari Insurrection Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:53:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Mikal Drey Edited by: Mikal Drey on 23/10/2008 17:49:38 initially looks nice and well thought out. I have doubts that the corp hanger will suffice for mining ops as typically 1 barge can fill a single can in about 12 minutes.
Yes but you can get the cargohold maxxed upto 90,000m3 so thats alittle more I guess! |
Jonak
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 17:57:00 -
[74]
90km3 is nothing. You'll still need haulers. The Orca would just eliminate jetcans.
|
Mikal Drey
Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:00:00 -
[75]
unless they envision the barges dropping ore directly into its corp bay then the orca pilot moving the ore into its 90km cargo bay then warping to the station to unload. avoiding jet can mining (unintended game mechanic)
this would loose the gang bonus and negate the tractor bonus.
as i mentioned in my previous post it should be more of a logistics hauller by the looks of the ships setup and layout. its got almost no tanking capability either.
|
Caldreis
Caldari White Star Heavy Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:01:00 -
[76]
I agree with most of the critics so far but will look forward to testing on sisi.
*critic about high/med and lower m3 per ISK than 1 itty V maxed out among few other
|
Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:06:00 -
[77]
One thing that looks missing from the stated bonuses is the "can use 3 gang link modules simultaneously" line that is found on the Rorqual. If the Orca doesn't have this, it will limit it's usefulness in the command role, requiring it's already limited mid-slots to be used up in command processors.
Originally by: Great Smirnov Squad of light drones are definitely nor enough to get rid of belt spawns. Big minus. Hulk can launch a squad of medium drones and is smaller ship.
I you would not expect this ship to be in a belt on it's own anyway, so it should be being supported by the drones of the barges present with it, or the operation's combat escort.
Giving the Orca a significant military support element as well would make it far too powerful.
Originally by: Great Smirnov C'mon, there are even battleship size respawns and this is a support ship for defenseless miners.
It's to support the mining side of the operation. If you want to support defenceless miners in the combat department, use a combat ship.
Originally by: Great Smirnov Tree med slots are not really enough to maintain a shield tank. Also a minus. Booster and 2 invuls? Barely a tank.
This is one area I am concerned about. While I don't think it should be able to fight back effectively (hence the small drone bay), I do think it should be able to mount a very robust tank. As it is, it doesn't look to have enough slots to mount an effective tank of any variety, and also does not have the significant HP buffer that freighters use as an alternative.
But then I'm of the opinion that all the industrial ships need to be able to survive a bit longer in a fight than they currently do, to encourage proper escorting.
Originally by: Great Smirnov If it is supposed due to tractor bonuses to salvage stuff then this is a laughter. 2 tractors and 1 salvager? Or 1 tractor and 2 salvagers? How long it will take to salvage a mission, 3-4 hours, one wreck by one?
The simple answer to this is that it is not intended to be a ship for salvaging missions. The tractor bonuses are so that it can sit in a central position in a belt and tractor in cans from barges spread throughout that belt.
Though if we assume it's supposed to be able to fit all three mining links, 4 or possibly 5 highs would seem more logical to allow the three links and some tractoring capacity.
Originally by: OMG ATITAN1 Im gonna hold in the rage about the silly comments being made here and just ask one question...Do you guys really need the capacitor mining link? Cuz if you do, well you have issues, if you dont, then put the bloody tractor beam there.
That should really be more of a debate of whether that link needs a different bonus. This ship is clearly intended to run the mining links, and there are three of them, so it is a pertinent point even of some of those links have separate balancing issues.
Originally by: Sophie Daigneau What's the reasoning for no compression lines? Currently high-sec ores, veldspar specifically, are not worth compressing due to the logistics hassle of first having to move them to low-sec for the rorqual to compress. Null-sec regions rely heavily on imported trit from empire, and the orca could have been an ideal platform for compressing empire mined veldspar for resale in null-sec. With even half the compression slots of a rorqual it still wouldn't taken away from the rorqual's role.
Here's hoping that it's an indication that Midas will also fix the need for all that imported trit, along with a whole host of other problems, by decoupling mineral quality from ore quality. Or that proper mineral compression (not just ore compression) is coming. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:06:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Clansworth on 23/10/2008 18:12:20 Just checked stats on SiSi, and the Industrial Command Ships skill pre-req's are:
- Spaceship Command 5 - Mining Barge 5 - Mining Foreman 3
Just as listed in the Blog.
As for any other updated, the skillbook is not currently seeded on the market, and the Orca and Orca Blueprint show info's are not working.. so not other info yet..
POS Personal Storage |
Matthew
Caldari BloodStar Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:12:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Vigilant Have to LOL a bit... It's a "high security" ship, why does it need "OMG UBER" tank?
1) It's not just a "high security" ship. It should still be viable as a low-sec choice for operations not yet ready to field and maintain a rorqual.
2) PvP combat does happen in high-sec too. If you make it too weak to be defendable, it'll just encourage the station-sitting zero-combat wardecs. If you give this (and other) industrial ships sufficient tank to survive a reasonable time on the battlefield, you are more likely to get them being guarded properly, and get actual fights occurring because of/around them. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
Ewa White
White Omega
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:17:00 -
[80]
what are the actual requirement to fly the ship , not to train the skill ?
that list of require skill is really short ... but possible
can we have bonus to mining laser instead ... tractor beam cmon .... if I want an overprice looting ship I use a marauder already(j/k) ... was expecting somethign a little more mining oriented not a pseudo freighter with tractor beams ...
not sure why this remind me of a Doctor Evil design ... quasi-freighter...
Ewa |
|
Jonak
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:20:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Clansworth Edited by: Clansworth on 23/10/2008 18:12:20 Just checked stats on SiSi, and the Industrial Command Ships skill pre-req's are:
- Spaceship Command 5 - Mining Barge 5 - Mining Foreman 3
Just as listed in the Blog.
As for any other updated, the skillbook is not currently seeded on the market, and the Orca and Orca Blueprint show info's are not working.. so not other info yet..
Thanks. |
Sexiest Beast
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:22:00 -
[82]
It definitely needs Ore Compression to make it a real viable option for mining operations. It would then almost 100% get used for its purpose. The Rorqual pretty much turned into a jump capable and cheaper than Freighter/JF hauler.
It would be a shame for the Orca to become an efficient transport ship and at a reasonable 400mil price tag its certainly looking to be one.
|
Jonathan Calvert
Minmatar Empire Mining and Trade
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:22:00 -
[83]
What about losing the command bonuses, and increasing the cargo bay? Use a BC or command ship if you want bonuses. Then this indeed becomes a mini freighter. Its role would be to collect jet cans or ore directly into hold, and haul back to station. It would also hold mining ships for deployment, and offer token defense via drones. |
El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:26:00 -
[84]
Nice stealth-announcement of the xl ship assembly array.
I woud guess, the LSAA will be highsec re-enabled and can build battleships and freighters, the XLSAA will be lowsec-only and can build carriers, dreadnoughts, rorquals?
Making the Orca the first item ingame that can be built in two different POS assembly arrays? |
Aarin Wrath
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:27:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Great Smirnov I can only agree, what the point of learning mining barge lvl 5 for a multi-purpose hauler?
It's focus is that of a mining director platform. Its focus is not that of a hauler. That is why it need Barge V. Not to mention the fact that it is a ORE ship
Originally by: Great Smirnov
Squad of light drones are definitely nor enough to get rid of belt spawns. Big minus.
It's intended for high sec. All you need is a wing of light drones for high sec rats.
Originally by: Great Smirnov
Hulk can launch a squad of medium drones and is smaller ship. C'mon, there are even battleship size respawns and this is a support ship for defenseless miners. Tree med slots are not really enough to maintain a shield tank. Also a minus. Booster and 2 invuls? Barely a tank.
Hulk is for deep space mining. I.e. 0.0. It needs good denfences and a decent tank. The Orca is for high sec, it needs to fend off against pidly 0.5 frigate rats at the very worst. It does not need a uber tank.
Originally by: Great Smirnov If it is supposed due to tractor bonuses to salvage stuff then this is a laughter. 2 tractors and 1 salvager? Or 1 tractor and 2 salvagers? How long it will take to salvage a mission, 3-4 hours, one wreck by one? Completely inefficient. People using hurricane for salvage just because you can fit 4 tractors and 4 salvagers at the same time.
It's focus is that of a mining director platform. Its focus is not that of a salvager. Why the heck would you need 90k of space for salvaging?
You seem to have completely missed the point of this ship.
Primary role: High Sec Mining Director Platform Secondary role: Hauler in between that of a Transport Ship and a Freighter. |
Unity Love
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:28:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Jonathan Calvert What about losing the command bonuses, and increasing the cargo bay? Use a BC or command ship if you want bonuses. Then this indeed becomes a mini freighter. Its role would be to collect jet cans or ore directly into hold, and haul back to station. It would also hold mining ships for deployment, and offer token defense via drones.
No offence but that's a useless idea. Nobody really wants/needs a mini-freighter a la above, but plenty of people will find the mix of command bonuses, cargo space etc. very useful. |
Vim
Spook Division
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:33:00 -
[87]
I'am getting one just for the sake of having a mini freighter!
...wait... why dont I just go get a real freighter, I'll never mine in highsec o_O
Anyhow, looks like a nice gadget :) |
Mikal Drey
Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:42:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Aarin Wrath It's focus is that of a mining director platform. Its focus is not that of a hauler. That is why it need Barge V. Not to mention the fact that it is a ORE ship
then why not give it leadership skills as its reqs ? mining director and mining foreman for its primary role and then industrial skills as its ship requirement and secondary role.
if indeed as you say its secondary role it to provide a step between transport and freighter then it shoul drequire industrial ship skills otherwise you could bypass the industrial skill altogether and you have yourself a hauller that completly outclasses everything below a Jump Freighter yet is actually a mining platform :/ kinda ****ed tbh
this new ORCA is a better hauler than my mastodon but i need to be a miner to fly it. thats logic for you
|
Mikal Drey
Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:42:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Mikal Drey on 23/10/2008 18:42:34 done a double
|
Caiman Graystock
Comrades in Construction Anarchy.
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 18:45:00 -
[90]
The ship cannot mount mining lasers. Why on earth does it require mining barge 5? It would make infinitely more sense to make it require transport ships 5 if it must include a lvl 5 skill, and would give people a reason to train that skill past level 1, while not granting instant access to the best hauler in the game to dedicated miners who havent trained industrial ship skills
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 23 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |