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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Ottman Amarr LoneWolf Mining Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:27:00 - [121] well orca need 6 highslots, cpu bonus to be able to fit strips like barge, cargo space is okay at all, 50 m¦ drone hangar is also okay, but needs also 50 mbit bandwith that would be useful, mining yield bonus over barge skill, over capital industrial skill. an cargo bonus bounded per level needed to fly ship sounds good. but the complete trac beam bonus no one need, also not the survey bonus, pretty useless, no one use that, all just change overview settings and kill roid per roid. and gang modules ? if i want gang boni and have a mate with the right skills in bc thats cheaper, so who gives a ** on that ? so some of the skill requirements are also not needed. no one with a few brain cells will waste isk on that ship, only bigger industrial alliance will have use from that, and no ccp not all want to be in bigger alliance, so if you want to loose those who support you for years, pls go on with that bull**... well ccp for me it looks that you have done only the half job, for bigger mining gangs orca will be nice ofc, but for those who are in smaller corps and alliances or in alliances where mates are in different tz and so cant really help with mining ? give orca in two variants, or give second variant another name, one as sub capital mining ship that can fit strip miners, and one like the orca you just presented, then it will be okay, but only the orca ? MfG ottman
Rramar Claime Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:32:00 - [122] Ok great, new ship, nice bonuses, nice attributes, relatively cheap, can fly in empire, etc etc, simply cool as it sounds. But could someone please explain me the general idea behind it other than the need for a mid-capital ship? Cause it really cant (shouldnt) be used outside empire space and i just dont get the idea how the huge and amazing veldspar mining ops would need such a ship. "I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes."
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:32:00 - [123] Originally by: Xindi Kraid Edited by: Xindi Kraid on 23/10/2008 20:27:27 Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Also, for an ORE ship, the skills are right where they should be, the rorqual requires barges V as well The rorqual requiring Mining Barge V is also a mistake. if you have mining skills you should be mining, haulers should require a different skillset regardless of what faction they belong to. The only significant change I can endorse is renaming the skill to "ORE Vessels" or something similar, as ORE has expanded significantly over the years and has become somewhat more varied than just mining barges _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Unity Love Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:33:00 - [124] Edited by: Unity Love on 23/10/2008 20:35:40 Originally by: Ottman but the complete trac beam bonus no one need, also not the survey bonus, pretty useless, no one use that, all just change overview settings and kill roid per roid. and gang modules ? if i want gang boni and have a mate with the right skills in bc thats cheaper, so who gives a **** on that ? Please notice: ITS A RUDDY MINING COMMAND PLATFORM!!! The tractor beam bonus is integral so you can make life easier for haulers or haul yourself on a large-scale mining operation. And a bc doesn't give the same bonuses for mining links (therefore an orca will give higher yield), ipso facto more useful for the majority amount of miners who mine in a group. And people, I say again, it was never meant to be a solo mining ship, so stop whining about having no mining lasers etc. Edit for panash
zacuis Great Big Research	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:34:00 - [125] firstly this is an awsome ship i love it. but i do have a concern with no ore compression. you will be forced to warp back to station every 4 cans of ore. gang links are disabled in warp so your loosing your gang bonues while in warp and while docked.the alternitive is to send a freighter out to empty the ore from the ship every 4 cans. that seems a little inefficent seeing as a freighter can carry 900km3 + i`d strongly advocate trebling the cargo hold i dont see 350km3 as over powered its still much less than a freighter so doesnt effect its role. perhaps u could make the ship less agile. so it doesnt replace the freighter. as a quick mini frieghter.
Una D Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:42:00 - [126] Originally by: zacuis firstly this is an awsome ship i love it. but i do have a concern with no ore compression. you will be forced to warp back to station every 4 cans of ore. gang links are disabled in warp so your loosing your gang bonues while in warp and while docked.the alternitive is to send a freighter out to empty the ore from the ship every 4 cans. that seems a little inefficent seeing as a freighter can carry 900km3 + i`d strongly advocate trebling the cargo hold i dont see 350km3 as over powered its still much less than a freighter so doesnt effect its role. perhaps u could make the ship less agile. so it doesnt replace the freighter. as a quick mini frieghter. The solution is to enable ore compression instad of making a new freighter. That would not break anything and most important will not intrude on a role of other ship already in the game.
Fulber	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:42:00 - [127] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Also, for an ORE ship, the skills are right where they should be, the rorqual requires barges V as well Rorqual is a capital. Not a subcapital. Not a supercapital. Originally by: Chaos Incarnate The retriever isn't a capital ship, now is it The Orca is a capital. It was designed by ORE. Requiring their ship skill (Mining Barges) to level 5 is pretty standard for capital ship requirements Orca is a subcapital. Not a capital. Not a supercapital. Originally by: Chaos Incarnate 'subcapital' in the same level as a freighter; ie, no jump drive. It still takes capital ship components, capital ship construction skills, and contains capital-ship specific features Capital Ship components and Capital Ship construction skills are used for subcapitals, capitals, and supercapitals. You keep making non-sequiturs. The Rorqual is a capital and requires Mining Barge V. Your argument that the Orca should also require Mining Barge V is a non-sequitor because: - You stated the Orca is the same class as the Rorqual. - You stated all ORE ships require Mining Barge V. Neither of which are true. The reason why the Orca requires Barge V is probably because it follows a similar role to the Rorqual, that of being an industrial commandship. Now, the Rorqual not only requires Barge V, but also a slew of capital ship skills. It fits that the Orca still requires Barge V, as it doesn't require the capital skillset. An analogous example is that of Command Ships, with the Battlecruisers V requirement.
Entarius Fusion Caldari Neo Khan Enterprises	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:52:00 - [128] just a quick question. are these allowed in high sec?
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:54:00 - [129] Originally by: Fulber - You stated the Orca is the same class as the Rorqual. - You stated all ORE ships require Mining Barge V. Neither of which are true. Well, to be fair, on Singularity currently, the Orca is in the same market group as the Rorqual (The Capital Industrial Ships group). Speaking on singulatity: Full Size POS Personal Storage
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:55:00 - [130] Well..... the Orca has a primary required skill called "Industrial Command Ship" which in reality means "Mining Command Ship". So, it might need Mining Barge 5 just as a regular command ship needs Cruiser 5. Also, do not change it to Transport Ships 5, that would be just horrible. Mining Barge 5 is a useful skill, Transport Ships 2+ is not. Apart from that, I like it. It is designed for highsec operations, so a 1-slot shieldtank should suffice in most circumstances (= large shieldbooster II), a flight of light drones is all you really need against highsec beltrats. Leaves us with 2 meds for afterburner/command processors, and highslots to toy with. As it is a command ship, I'd like to see Warfare Link Specialist 4 added as a requirement, and second the switch from Foreman 3 to Director 1. If it is indeed intended as a secondary-role hauling vessel to shrink the industrial->freighter gap, it should reach 120k m3 with tech 2 cargo expander and t1 cargo optimization rigs so it can transport maximum size courier contracts. I'm undecided on the ship maintenance bay, having 550k m3 so it can transport rigged battleships sure would be nice, but might make it a wee bit too versatile.

Unity Love Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:57:00 - [131] ^ I think you missed his point. He was pointing out that the Orca, as a 'subcapital' class ship it should require the similar skills to pilot as the rorqual, minus the capital skill books. And he did not state all ORE ships require barge V, he stated that for a sub-capital ship designed by ORE, Mining Barge V seems like a likely skill needed to fly it. And stop saying non sequitur...
Vincent Law Gnome Research	Posted - 2008.10.23 20:59:00 - [132] The main issue here is that this ship is able to do a lot of stuff, but it is not as specialized as everyone would like. As it is now, you can move up to three cruisers or a battlecruiser and a couple frigates in the Orca's SMA. I can move 2x as many cruisers in my freighter using courier contracts. Pretty much the same can be said for frigates. Anything bigger than 120,000m3 can't be moved in a freighter. Seems to me that the ship is geared more towards mining support, and doesn't have enough abilities to make it useful to the people that want to use it to keep their war machines moving. Sure you could give it enough space to carry a rigged battleship, but aside from being able to take a bit of your corp hangar along with it, you're still moving them individually. What I'd really like is a "ship ferry" that can transport about a dozen each of rigged battleships, battlecruisers, cruisers, and frigates. A new class of freighter with a 10,000,000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay (1/2 of a POS SMA), no cargo or corp hangar, cannot be used in space (can offload and load at a POS SMA), cannot load industrials/barges with cargo. Bonuses would be agility/speed/hp since I don't know if a Ship Maintenance Bay capacity bonus is possible. Ideas I Like: Dissallow the Orca to carry combat ships Create a new ship exclusively for moving ships
Leumas Kharzim Amarr Intaki Armaments	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:00:00 - [133] Being an ORE ship, it makes perfect sense to require Mining Barge V. The covetor requires the same thing. It is a mining command ship, after all.
meracuza	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:01:00 - [134] Originally by: Ultan Devastator Edited by: Ultan Devastator on 23/10/2008 19:28:44 Skills dictate a mining ship. what we truely need is a 0.0 mining ship that can be limited to mining say kernite to veld only. 3 times bigger than a hulk. has a "mining Siege" module. makes you stuck for say 6 minutes. but your 3 miners work really fast ( 1 minute a cycle per beam in siege) to chew up the low end ores. you will still need haulers to offload these BELT ENDERS. but i firmly believe, in zero zero, we need a ship that will help us get the low ends mined 4 high (3 turret) 4 mid 2 low 2 rigs cargo size max size with t1 rigs and t2 expanders would need to be 75 k drone bay 145 m3 ( 5 mining drones. 3 heavy 2 medium combat) 10 % all resist shields per level (skill is rank 8 ) This is what orca would be in my mind. Ultan This is a fantastic idea, though I would suggest that the "mining seige module" be specific to only one type of ore. This would make it work more like mining crystals in a t2 strip miner.
Rramar Claime Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:07:00 - [135] Originally by: Rramar Claime Ok great, new ship, nice bonuses, nice attributes, relatively cheap, can fly in empire, etc etc, simply cool as it sounds. But could someone please explain me the general idea behind it other than the need for a mid-capital ship? Cause it really cant (shouldnt) be used outside empire space and i just dont get the idea how the huge and amazing veldspar mining ops would need such a ship. Ok im reading what you guys write, its a hisec hauler with cool bonuses, then why do i need barges 5 for it? Again i dont see a real use for this ship other then the next marketing move of ccp. Make a nice 3d model give it some attributes and make a crazy marketing ( Orca Orca Orca AAAArrrrgh the dev blog youve been waiting for aaaaaaggghhhhh everyone go crazy NOW ). The only guy in Eve who can fully use this ship and have a reason for it is probably chribba and his veldnaught... "I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day, when he said; 'Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?' Grandpa said, 'No, but I served in a company of heroes."
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:08:00 - [136] Why turrets? use mining drones if you want to exploit the cargo hold. You won't get anything effective out of it anyways. Turrets are totally unnecessary. -------- Ideas for: Mining
I SoStoned	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:11:00 - [137] Edited by: I SoStoned on 23/10/2008 21:15:08 Are you going to seed the BPO's where people can actually find them, not some ass-end-of-nowhere 0.0 system that gives the holding alliance 100% of the income since they keep those systems (only 2) locked down? There are some faults with it: No ore compression capability (1 or 2 would be nice, but make them 1/2 as fast as a Rorq). Not enough PG/CPU to fit a single gang module, much less 2 (notice: no bonuses for fitting gang modules!!! Base gang module CPU is 5000!) Not enough highslots for a big, slow, poorly armed (50m/3 dronebay? Come on!) ship. Without tractors it has to get up the ass of its mining fleet, or it has to fit multiple tractor beams, rendering it unable to use the gang modules (that it can't fit anyway).
ArymAramanska Minmatar m3 Corp BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:11:00 - [138] Originally by: Xessej I'm pretty sure I can use two low slots and 3 upgrade hardpoints to take 30k m3 well past 45km3 cargo capacity especially with +5% cargo cap per level of skill. it does say expandable out past 90k in the blog.
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:12:00 - [139] Originally by: Rramar Claime Ok im reading what you guys write, its a hisec hauler with cool bonuses No, its a command ship barge with a cool cargo bay. The primary reason for its inception was (to the best of my knowledge) the absense of a ship with a command bonus to mining links that could enter highsec.
Kamikazie Amarr AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:13:00 - [140] A buddy in my alliance swears its 94k with rigs and + corp hangars is 120k m3 cargohold. Dunno how true it is or how well his math was done.

Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:16:00 - [141] Originally by: I SoStoned Are you going to seed the BPO's where people can actually find them, not some ass-end-of-nowhere 0.0 system that gives the holding alliance 100% of the income since they keep those systems (only 2) locked down? Asked and answered on the first page of this thread by CCP Fallout
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:23:00 - [142] Edited by: Clansworth on 23/10/2008 21:22:50 Originally by: I SoStoned Edited by: I SoStoned on 23/10/2008 21:15:08 Are you going to seed the BPO's where people can actually find them, not some ass-end-of-nowhere 0.0 system that gives the holding alliance 100% of the income since they keep those systems (only 2) locked down? Already answered by the devs on page 1. It will be seeded in ORE stations, AND DMC stations (Deep Core Mining Inc.), as the ship was a joint venture between those two. The skill will be seeded throughout the empire school stations. Originally by: I SoStoned There are some faults with it: No ore compression capability (1 or 2 would be nice, but make them 1/2 as fast as a Rorq). honestly, this wouldn't work. It simply wouldn't be fast enough to keep up with ANY sort of a mining op, and would equate to a lot of wasted effort for little gain. Better option would be to allow freighter docking, so space isn't as much an issue. Originally by: I SoStoned Not enough PG/CPU to fit a single gang module, much less 2 (notice: no bonuses for fitting gang modules!!! Base gang module CPU is 5000!) It isn't typed out in the description, but rest assured, the fitting adjustment is there. If it isn't, it certainly will be before it reaches TQ. Originally by: I SoStoned Not enough highslots for a big, slow, poorly armed (50m/3 dronebay? Come on!) ship. Without tractors it has to get up the ass of its mining fleet, or it has to fit multiple tractor beams, rendering it unable to use the gang modules (that it can't fit anyway). Why do you say it can't fit tractors? It can fit a 2 mining links (the two useful ones), and one tractor, which can pull in a jetcan once every 70 seconds, minimum, from 70km away. That's enough to keep up with a pretty decent sized op. An op bigger than what that could keep up with would rapidly fill up the orca's hold anyways, so you'd still need multiple orcas, or some other large hauling o****ion (like the aforementioned freighter dock.
Icarus Starkiller Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:28:00 - [143] One thing, CCP, please I beg of you.... this ship is pretty snazzy, but you're missing something! CANNOT BE TRAINED/FLOWN IN NUUB CORPS! CANNOT BE FLOWN IN NPC CORPS! Period, gods get these things out of the NPC corps or you'll have one parked at every belt in highsec with 3 miner II's fitted!!!
Unity Love Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:28:00 - [144] Originally by: I SoStoned Not enough PG/CPU to fit a single gang module, much less 2 (notice: no bonuses for fitting gang modules!!! Base gang module CPU is 5000!) Yea it gets the same bonus as the rorq (on SiSi) for gang modules.
Rramar Claime Amarr Task Force Zener Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:29:00 - [145] Originally by: Mioelnir Originally by: Rramar Claime Ok im reading what you guys write, its a hisec hauler with cool bonuses No, its a command ship barge with a cool cargo bay. The primary reason for its inception was (to the best of my knowledge) the absense of a ship with a command bonus to mining links that could enter highsec. What do you mean enter hisec?? It can't leave hisec lol! M8 if you try to leave empire in a ship with those attributes your name will be famous on intel channels...
Fulber	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:30:00 - [146] Originally by: Icarus Starkiller One thing, CCP, please I beg of you.... this ship is pretty snazzy, but you're missing something! CANNOT BE TRAINED/FLOWN IN NUUB CORPS! CANNOT BE FLOWN IN NPC CORPS! Period, gods get these things out of the NPC corps or you'll have one parked at every belt in highsec with 3 miner II's fitted!!! It has no turret slots.
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:31:00 - [147] Originally by: Icarus Starkiller One thing, CCP, please I beg of you.... this ship is pretty snazzy, but you're missing something! CANNOT BE TRAINED/FLOWN IN NUUB CORPS! CANNOT BE FLOWN IN NPC CORPS! Period, gods get these things out of the NPC corps or you'll have one parked at every belt in highsec with 3 miner II's fitted!!! No turret points, can't fit Mining Lasers... most it could to is throw out 5 Mining Drone II's.. not much threat there.. besides, even with it's size, it is still quite suicidable.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:37:00 - [148] Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 23/10/2008 21:39:53 Originally by: Fulber Rorqual is a capital. Not a subcapital. Not a supercapital. Orca is a subcapital. Not a capital. Not a supercapital. Capital Ship components and Capital Ship construction skills are used for subcapitals, capitals, and supercapitals. Sure. But all three (sub, super, and regular) are all of a similar type, which I am (and have been) referring to as capital ships. Their general usage and scope is beyond that of most single pilots, and are largely intended for group and corporate use. Quote: - You stated the Orca is the same class as the Rorqual. - You stated all ORE ships require Mining Barge V. You misread me, x2. The Orca is a similar ship to the Rorqual, in that it falls under the general umbrella of capital (sub, super, and regular) ship, as I explained above. Both ships are produced by ORE, and because they're capitals, require their largest non-capital (sub, super, and regular) similar ship skillbook trained to five as a prereq (Gallente carrier requires Gal BS V, Caldari Freighter requires Caldari Industrial V). ORE doesn't have any others, so Mining barge it is. In short: -The Orca is a 'capital' ship, in that its usage is intended for multiple players -The Orca is produced by ORE -Therefore, the Orca is a 'capital' ORE ship -All 'capital' ships require a similar racial skillbook trained to five -As no others exist, the best racial skillbook is Mining Barges -Therefore, the Orca should require Barges V. Happy? _____________________ The unofficial faceless Achura alt of EVE Online
Icarus Starkiller Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:52:00 - [149] Originally by: Clansworth Originally by: Icarus Starkiller One thing, CCP, please I beg of you.... this ship is pretty snazzy, but you're missing something! CANNOT BE TRAINED/FLOWN IN NUUB CORPS! CANNOT BE FLOWN IN NPC CORPS! Period, gods get these things out of the NPC corps or you'll have one parked at every belt in highsec with 3 miner II's fitted!!! No turret points, can't fit Mining Lasers... most it could to is throw out 5 Mining Drone II's.. not much threat there.. besides, even with it's size, it is still quite suicidable. Who cares what it can or cannot fit in its highslots... just keep it out of the hands of people who don't want to play the game in the spirit the game was intended to be played (NPC corp invulnerability). NPC corps need a major nerf, especially with patches in the pipe to boost industrial classes. The war declaration system, and war flagging, also needs a distinct examination to improve functionality, especially against dodgers.
Red Harvest	Posted - 2008.10.23 22:03:00 - [150] Only thing im missing are 2-3 extra hi-slots, the 3 hi slots i has are a bit low if you actually plan to use it with 1-2 command modules. 2 command modules + 2-3 tractor beams would be perfect or 2-3 tractor beams and some salvagers the serious mission cleaners. (man i would love to ninja salvage with that one )



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