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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Viktor Speranza White Wolf Enterprises Harmonious Ascent	Posted - 2008.10.23 15:51:00 - [31] Mining Foreman 3? That sounds a touch low. You need Mining Director for the mining warfare gang links. So why would you not need Mining Director for the Orca? Also 3 high slots, good idea. Anymore and you will see mission runners using these to just salvage and not for their purpose. Anyhow only "Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization" is really of any use since its the only one that helps Ice Mining. The "Harvester Capacitor Efficiency" is really only needed in conjunction with the Laser Optimization because of the long cycle time on strip miners. So those 2 plus a tractor beam is the way to go. There is nothing on this side or the other side of the EVE Gate to convince me that Mining Laser Field Enhancement is worth spitting on. IE: fix it. Come to Penirgman VII û Ministry of Internal Order Assembly Plant to apply for WWES!
sdchew Gallente Jazz Associates Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.10.23 15:57:00 - [32] If only it could haul 1 rigged Battleship/Marauder. Would make the perfect mission runner mobile HQ packing the mission ship, an unassembled salvage boat, all your ammo and modules.
Xessej	Posted - 2008.10.23 15:58:00 - [33] I'm pretty sure I can use two low slots and 3 upgrade hardpoints to take 30k m3 well past 45km3 cargo capacity especially with +5% cargo cap per level of skill.
Romanov DeBeers Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.23 15:58:00 - [34] A cloak, a SS and you have a very nice mobile exploration/ ninja ratting mothership. Could also have uses in high sec small gangs warfare
Karbowiak Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.23 15:59:00 - [35] PVP Orca here i come! srs, people pvp in hulks - so i can pvp in an Orca!. I'LL TAKE 3 PLEASE! edit:// in all seriousness, its a beauty - just as i'd have wanted a hauler to look. But its not a hauler, its much more. <3
Zareph Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:01:00 - [36] Originally by: Viktor Speranza Mining Foreman 3? That sounds a touch low. You need Mining Director for the mining warfare gang links. So why would you not need Mining Director for the Orca? This sounds pretty good to me as well. Director 1 would be plenty, it turns on the links. Any more is up to you. Foreman 3 seems out of place. * Industrial Command Ships 1 (new skill) * Spaceship Command 5 * Mining Barge 5 * Mining Foreman 3 Looking at this list, the only one that gives me a 'wtf?' is Mining Barge 5. I'm thinking 4. Seriously. 5 is the Rorqual, 4 is the Orca. Since you can't even mine with the thing (in this iteration). Personally I like the idea of two compression lines as I've already said but I wanted to expand on the skills by saying tihs: * Industrial Command Ships 1 (new skill) * Spaceship Command 5 * Mining Barge 4 * Mining Director 1 * Refining 5 * Mass Production 4 So now you have a different type of 'industrial core' that works on this guy that only works with the Refinery 5 minerals. Veld/Scord/Plagio/Omber minerals that you can specialize in without the need for Refinery Efficiency. The compression works the same way, BPO reqs don't need to be adjusted because they need rock processing 4. This core just only works with the 'low ends' I really think four highs is needed, not being able to fit 3 links + a tractor for mining op support. you can shuffle the rest for compression later but four highs is a big one I think we're missing. I don't think this should be able to mine be design, maybe you can crazy bolt it but I think this is a true support ship / hauler / bonuser /compression platform for empire.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:04:00 - [37] Wow, I'm actually surprised at the low cost and skill reqs, was expecting much worse. Definately going to get one...
Hertford Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:07:00 - [38] Cargo Capacity: For 400mil, I expect more, really. Ore Compression: Can it, or can't it? Tank: If it can't tank belt rats, your Mining Foreman would be better off in a BC/CS, unless you like having two people doing the job of one. Ore Compression: Can it, or can't it? Tractor Beams: 70km is pretty small, and 1km/s is pretty slow. It would be quicker to warp to a bookmark/can 200km above the belt and then warp to the jetcan as opposed to tractoring the same can for over a minute. Unless this thing is meant to tank belt rats (doesn't look like it), in which case it's even worse off, as it can't warp about to grab the cans more than 70km off. Ore Compression: Can it, or can't it? Gang Bonuses: 3 High slots for tractor(s) and command link(s). Looking good... Ore Compression: Can it, or can't it?
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:24:00 - [39] Originally by: Viktor Speranza Mining Foreman 3? That sounds a touch low. You need Mining Director for the mining warfare gang links. So why would you not need Mining Director for the Orca? Also 3 high slots, good idea. Anymore and you will see mission runners using these to just salvage and not for their purpose. Anyhow only "Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization" is really of any use since its the only one that helps Ice Mining. The "Harvester Capacitor Efficiency" is really only needed in conjunction with the Laser Optimization because of the long cycle time on strip miners. So those 2 plus a tractor beam is the way to go. There is nothing on this side or the other side of the EVE Gate to convince me that Mining Laser Field Enhancement is worth spitting on. IE: fix it. While I agree Mining Foreman 3 might seem a bit low, also realize that this ship is also designed as a big hauler, and many will use it for just that purpose, not touching the mining links. I'm more concerned with Mining Barge V, though I honestly don't like the idea of Transports V either. Transports is a tech II skill, and as such, shouldn't be used for any non-tech II ship pre-reqs. Also, isn't Transport Ships a Rank 6 skill vs. Mining Barge as a Rank 4? This would mean Transport Ships would take considerable longer to train to V. And I do find the Mining Range link useful, but mostly as it makes the haulers jobs easier, as the barges can sit a bit more out of the belt, so less barge billiards when the haulers warp in and out. Though with an Orca there, with the 70km tractor range, this isn't much of an issue, as the haulers could just warp to the orca.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:32:00 - [40] Edited by: Shadowsword on 23/10/2008 16:33:00 The ship look and sound nice, but I have a couple of questions. - Will it be able to tank 0.0 spawns? What does it's peak cap recharge looks like? If it's not possible, it's utility in a belt will be limited to big mining ops, or you might as well use a fleet command ship for both command links and spawn tanking and that will free a slot for another hulk. - 30k base cargo seem a bit small. I think 50k would be much nicer. - What is it's volume once assembled? Can a carrier carry one Orca? - What about giving it a 600k ship maintenance bay so it can carry a single rigged battleship? - How about 4 or even 5 highs so it can use both the 3 command links and one or two tractors?
Mashie Saldana Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:32:00 - [41] Impressive, one of the best looking ships in game will be an industrial.
Leumas Kharzim Amarr Intaki Armaments	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:33:00 - [42] Originally by: Zareph Originally by: Viktor Speranza Mining Foreman 3? That sounds a touch low. You need Mining Director for the mining warfare gang links. So why would you not need Mining Director for the Orca? This sounds pretty good to me as well. Director 1 would be plenty, it turns on the links. Any more is up to you. Foreman 3 seems out of place. This. Mining Director 1 instead of Foreman 3. Originally by: jughernot I think that the Orca should have at least a mediocre level of defense, say something about as tough as your average BC (Able to tank 0.0 BS spawns). 50mbps drone bandwidth should be a minimum imo, since 1) that's what the hulk has and 2) 5 mediums can kill at least the tackling rats in an NPC spawn, if not slowly kill the BSes. I would suggest 5-6 total mid slots, but nothing more than that seems to be needed. It would be nice if it could use more than 1 gang link by default, especially since it is a command ship. An extra high slot would really help facilitate the use of gang links. I would like to see the tractor range improved a bit, as I'm used to pulling in cans from 150km+ with the Rorqual. 70km is great, but I think 100km would be just perfect for the Orca. All of this. Great ship. Looking forward to it.
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:38:00 - [43] Originally by: Hertford Cargo Capacity: For 400mil, I expect more, really. Well, compared to Freighter cost, and the added agility/speed this has over the freighter, this seems reasonable Originally by: Hertford Ore Compression: Can it, or can't it? It appears no. Originally by: Hertford Tank: If it can't tank belt rats, your Mining Foreman would be better off in a BC/CS, unless you like having two people doing the job of one. I believe your hulks would be able to tank most belt rats, if not, a Hulk with some shield Maintenance bots has little to no trouble. Originally by: Hertford Tractor Beams: 70km is pretty small, and 1km/s is pretty slow. It would be quicker to warp to a bookmark/can 200km above the belt and then warp to the jetcan as opposed to tractoring the same can for over a minute. Unless this thing is meant to tank belt rats (doesn't look like it), in which case it's even worse off, as it can't warp about to grab the cans more than 70km off. 70km is plenty for most mining operations. The Orca, in the middle of the belt, has itself a spread of 140km. Hulks sitting 70km from the orca then can mine up to 22km from there, so an overall operational span of (70km+70km+22km+22km=)184km without any ships moving. That would encompass any high-sec belt, and provide quite some time before a shift is needed in null-sec. Originally by: Hertford Gang Bonuses: 3 High slots for tractor(s) and command link(s). Looking good... It does seem a bit cramped, Though as mentioned previously, only 2 links would be used, and the third slot would work for a single tractor. Tractoring a single can in from 70km would take 70 seconds, so it's not like you'll get behind with just a single tractor working. (That'd take a LOT of hulks filling cans)
Saulvo Vernilis 3M Industries	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:39:00 - [44] Saints be praised! Great job CCP. This turned out really well.
Pater Deus	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:45:00 - [45] It sure is good to have a new ship like Orca. Thanks CCP! Can`t wait to get an Industrial Command Ship book in my hands and read it from beginning to end. Among other roles Orca is supposed to fill the gap between Industrial and the Freighters but it`s my impression that we will use it as a Mining Command Ship. Want your 90,000M3 of cargohold to take around? 1 Orca = 400,000,000.- 3 Optimization Cargohold II rigs = about 250,000,000 each ? A lot of money to fill a gap in the transportation business, uh? I`ll stick to my Obelisk to transport mining goodies, but will get an Orca to use as a Mining Command Ship. Why only 10 scout sized drones, five miners and five defenders/attackers or at best medium sized drones stucked in a ship of this class and proportions? Wouldn`t it be great to have a 125M3 dedicated mining drone bay? Heavy mining drones would be superb to have. I pray to the Gods of CCP to eventually redeem themselves and surprise us EVE mortals with *real T2 mining drones* in a near future, not the whimpy T2 ones we now have to use. A Mining Command Ship (Orca) pilot will still lack this skills: - Drone Foreman - Drone Director - Advanced Mining Drone Interfacing - Heavy Mining Drones and a ship with a Dedicated Heavy Mining Drone bay and only then Drone Mining Augmentor Rigs will give real benefit$ and payback for our inve$tment. Last but not least, 70kms range of tractor beams and 125kms survey scanner range? Am I missing something or are we to see double sized belts in high sec?
Vigilant Gallente Vigilant's Vigilante's	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:46:00 - [46] Have to LOL a bit... It's a "high security" ship, why does it need "OMG UBER" tank? The only thing screwy with is the skill set. Mining barge is still wierd to me. More slots are always nice, but CCP is not looking to fill every "niche" job with ship, and that is what I keep seeing people trying to do by tweaking the Orca to suit their "niche".
Hertford Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:47:00 - [47] Originally by: Clansworth Originally by: Hertford Cargo Capacity: For 400mil, I expect more, really. Well, compared to Freighter cost, and the added agility/speed this has over the freighter, this seems reasonable Half the price of a freighter for... not even close to a quarter of the cargo capacity of a freighter. You're right about the agility and speed though.
Hertford Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:48:00 - [48] Originally by: Vigilant Have to LOL a bit... It's a "high security" ship, why does it need "OMG UBER" tank? The only thing screwy with is the skill set. Mining barge is still wierd to me. More slots are always nice, but CCP is not looking to fill every "niche" job with ship, and that is what I keep seeing people trying to do by tweaking the Orca to suit their "niche". I was expecting CCP to create a mini-rorqual. Silly me!
Arcanne Perkone	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:51:00 - [49] oooh god ! I need one with the Christmas tree
Una D Ex Coelis The Bantam Menace	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:52:00 - [50] Originally by: Hertford Originally by: Vigilant Have to LOL a bit... It's a "high security" ship, why does it need "OMG UBER" tank? The only thing screwy with is the skill set. Mining barge is still wierd to me. More slots are always nice, but CCP is not looking to fill every "niche" job with ship, and that is what I keep seeing people trying to do by tweaking the Orca to suit their "niche". I was expecting CCP to create a mini-rorqual. Silly me! Yea, having a useful ship seems to be against CCPs principles. This reminds me of black ops ships. Utterly useless and far from worth the money. Time to make a petition for a mini rorqual, freighters work well enough. High sec carrier for rigged ships would be nice but not at 400k m3.
Alz Shado Ever Flow Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:53:00 - [51] Edited by: Alz Shado on 23/10/2008 16:53:26 Originally by: Chaos Incarnate -A mini-freighter should be able to hold a giant freight container/max courier contract without much fiddling ... A 120k m3 minifreighter with a strong tank that can move all my stuff? Who'd say no? This. This is what I wanted. I'm definately more interested in a minifreighter then I ever was a Rorqual 1.5 //// ---------=== []= ---------=== \\\\ Rifter(RedBad) "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand
Unity Love Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:56:00 - [52] Anyone found out what prereqs are for Industrial Command Ship are? And I think Mining Barge V is fair, as this should be a miner's ship, and miner's do need something post hulk to keep them occupied.
Jonathan Calvert Minmatar Empire Mining and Trade	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:58:00 - [53] Any idea which capital components will be needed to build this?
Seragon Caldari VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:59:00 - [54] Seriously, I love it. I think people are wanting too much out of the ship. I like that it forces you to make choices about how to fit it. I like that it is flexible enough to fill several roles. I like the amount of space it gives. It feels balanced and flexible. It can't tank, so won't replace belt tanks, it can't haul a tonne so won't replace freighters, it costs a tonne so won't completely replace industrials, it doesn't compress or jump so it won't replace the rorqual. It fills a nice niche between all of these. I just like it overall and will be getting one as soon as I can. I stick to 0.0 for the most part, but I can see a lot of can flipper tears in the future as soon as people figure out they can mine directly into the corp hanger instead of a jet can.
Arkady Sadik Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.23 16:59:00 - [55] Awesome. We're already redesigning our mining op setups. :-) For our combat logistics on the other hand, the ship maintenance bay is a bit lacking. 400km3 means you can't fit a single BS into that ship, which is a bit annoying. Rigged ships are either T2 cruisers or battleships, and T2 cruisers aren't such a problem to transport yourself - battleships take time. To make it worthwhile, it should be able to fit two battleships, which would mean it should have 900km3 - 990km3 SMB. Any chance on this? :-]
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.10.23 17:00:00 - [56] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 23/10/2008 17:01:07 First off, yay! It looks nothing like a whale though (I actually really love the look, nice job) I think my gut reaction is that it's a tad over-complicated, whilst being given relatively few slots to allow that complexity to be exploited. For example, as has been said already 3 highs means either mining links or sacrificing one for a tractor. I'd opt either for 2 highs and make it quite clear that for full benefits you'll need two of these things, or 4 and let it do the role fully. Lows seem ok, though the total max cargo of 90k or more is slightly disappointing for the cost and when compared to what a freighter can give you. Mediums I think are a bit unfortunate. I'd have preferred 4 to enable better use outside of high-sec. Given the bonuses, one at least will be a survey scanner, so that leaves just two for any sort of shield tank. I suppose the big question I have is whether CCP intend it as a compliment to or a smaller less capable version of the Rorqual. If the latter, then fair enough. If the former, it really needs to shine in one area and let the Rorqual shine in another. All that said, YAY YAY YAY! Originally by: Vigilant Have to LOL a bit... It's a "high security" ship, why does it need "OMG UBER" tank? Is it? It can be used anywhere; it seems foolish to deliberately limit it to high-sec applications only simply due to lack of slots. Why not let player ingenuity find the uses for it instead of assuming it will only be used in high-sec?
FFH Marketscan	Posted - 2008.10.23 17:13:00 - [57] Originally by: Shadowsword Edited by: Shadowsword on 23/10/2008 16:33:00 - How about 4 or even 5 highs so it can use both the 3 command links and one or two tractors? This is my question, are you going to be able to run 2 or 3 command links like the roqual? if so, why only 3 high slots? The one thing that CCP seems to forget is that Null sec and Hi-sec are essentially dependent on each other, as is stated elsewhere, trit needs to be moved out there, just as the lo-sec mins are needed in hi-sec. One fails with out the other. While I realize that Null sec is supposed to be "End Game Content" it is not something all of us aspire to... To be totally honest with you, I am a bit disappointed in this ship, I was hoping for a bit more cargo cap, and 1 or 2 more high slots, and the ability to run 2 or 3 command links at the same time.
Moon Dogg Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.23 17:15:00 - [58] Perhaps the Industrial Command Ship skill could boost drone bay size by 5m3 per skill level? Regardless, I think I will want one of these to play around in.
Jonak Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.23 17:22:00 - [59] I'm liking most of what I'm seeing and I do plan to get one.. But I do see a couple of downers. I'd have to say add 1 more slot for hi/mid/lo. Like others have stated, 3 hi slots just don't cut it. A 4th would be just enough. Same for the mid slots to help provide some better protection. That "base" cargo amount of 30k, that's not even a well fitted Iteron V (38km3). Expandable to 90km3? Is that including or excluding the Corp bay of another 30k, so you're looking at about 120km3? Is that with T2 rigs? You are still going to need haulers with this. 120km3 is just a little more than 3 Itty 5 runs. That's nothing. This doesn't say "Mini-Freighter" to me. But I'm liking it other than these limitations.
Inanna Zuni Minmatar The Causality Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.23 17:24:00 - [60] Originally by: Bado Sten but why does it need Mining Barge 5? It is not a mining ship, but has great hauling capabilities. Why not make it Transport ships 4 or 5 instead? Anyone with Barge 5 should be out mining, not in a support ship This. My carting-stuff-around alt wanted something between a maxed-out indy and a too-big freighter. This could have been it but the mining requirements are out of place for what is more of a courier than a mining tool.

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