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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 100 post(s) |
Grikath
T.E.L.O.G.S.
28
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Posted - 2012.04.03 23:48:00 -
[301] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:For those who are concerned about Loosing your money to RMTer activities, loan your money to me. I will carefully loose you money in a strategic way that not be taken by CCP. My money loosing ideas include: Ratting in a Titan in Hostile Space, Self Destructing Super Cap for the insurance pay out, and Placing Plex in can in front of Jita where I will shoot at people who try and take it!
Loose your money to me! I Guarantee it will be SECURE from being lost because of RMT actions... while it lasts....
May your intestines knot horribly overnight for getting that one in before me!! :P
But anyways...hells yeah! Finally some serious tough love on the botting/RMT front.
Eagerly awaiting Graphs!! and Pict0rz!! when you have them ready. And the economic point of view. and.... [/drool]
And to all the whiners/pedants... If you feel it necessary to dig trenches around your "position" already, you do realise all that happens is people getting curious about when you are going to be Tagged for Special Attention, do you? Gotta love the sudden Angst and dread emanating from some posts.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
736
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Posted - 2012.04.03 23:48:00 -
[302] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:I suppose if the loan market dries up-- not completely, but a large portion of it-- due to fear of bans, more people will need to turn to CCP-sanctioned RMTing to get money, right?
Personally I won't be loaning out ISK anymore. Making a few billion isn't worth jeopardizing six years of work.
People are paranoid enough ok |
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Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
201
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Posted - 2012.04.03 23:50:00 -
[303] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:I suppose if the loan market dries up-- not completely, but a large portion of it-- due to fear of bans, more people will need to turn to CCP-sanctioned RMTing to get money, right?
Personally I won't be loaning out ISK anymore. Making a few billion isn't worth jeopardizing six years of work. People are paranoid enough ok
:tinfoil: |
Shaera Taam
Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
34
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Posted - 2012.04.03 23:50:00 -
[304] - Quote
oh hell yeah!
bring on the dead bots!
too bad we cant call dibs on the salvage, lol!
Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess! |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
201
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Posted - 2012.04.03 23:51:00 -
[305] - Quote
Good job banning bots, though. It's just a pity this wasn't done before the whole bot-fueled supercap armsrace. |
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
519
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Posted - 2012.04.03 23:55:00 -
[306] - Quote
What about taking the isk that is on banned accounts or removed due to botting and using it to reimburse people who where scammed? I was promised a spot in Pandemic Legion if I paid a fee of 500M and now I barely have enough to replace my scythe and can't mine because of an afk cloacker which is a different issue but it basically keeps me from enjoying the game. |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
91
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Posted - 2012.04.03 23:58:00 -
[307] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Good job banning bots, though. It's just a pity this wasn't done before the whole bot-fueled supercap armsrace. I'm actually going to be a bit surprised if any nullsec alliances are seriously impacted by this, despite the rumors that have run rampant for years.
But if the rumors are *true* it might open up some nice opportunities. |
Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
70
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:00:00 -
[308] - Quote
Woo Glin wrote:What about taking the isk that is on banned accounts or removed due to botting and using it to reimburse people who where scammed? I was promised a spot in Pandemic Legion if I paid a fee of 500M and now I barely have enough to replace my scythe and can't mine because of an afk cloacker which is a different issue but it basically keeps me from enjoying the game.
What a lot of goon need to realise is that its not because we hate you that we do these things Its because -áWE LOVE YOU Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume! |
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:00:00 -
[309] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.
Just cyan. I don't disagree. We also don't support loan systems. This is why if I'm correct you have a subforum as you stated for loans and the punishment for defaulting on said loan is player justice not an in-game action from CCP. We didn't design a loan system. Maybe it's something we should do, maybe not, the point is that yourself and others are making a big to-do about A) Something that we haven't had to do anything about yet because nobody's been snagged wrongly to date B) Something that is a player-run mechanic. I can't provide validation around something we didn't create.
i just want to know about the loan thing.... that troubles me.
will bans be implemented for some1 who loans money to some1 who is a RMT or if the isk is just gone. isk gone i'm fine with, account actions of any kind....not so much. then the "knowing" part comes in.... you are putting the cart before the horse ... so to speak. you never answered my original question which was this exactly. again... i'm not looking to get around the rules but you never even made it clear. loans happen.... its part of any game, supported or not. eve is supposed to be a sand box. so now i can't make loans cause its not in the game structure? of course not. this is ridiculous. so again
-tldr version-
Can an account get banned for making a loan to an account involved in RMT, knowningly or not? the loaned iskies lost is a risk of playing the game... but are there other actions beyond that?
- /tldr-
answer those 2 questions and 90% of the crap u have been getting will go away. from what i can see ccp did well on this...except for the transparency part....not about how the individuals are caught (that would be plain stupid). but definitively the rules of what is allowed (hypothetical or not... the elusiveness seems to be because nobody knows exactly what is going on) as well as the punishments need to be known. that's just a huge DUH |
Cpt Arareb
Ideal Machine Many Reckless Corps
14
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:02:00 -
[310] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:General Abrams wrote:Awesome Work! I certainly hope the Bans include Mission botters!
They do market bots ? Yes them too
here goes Jita local
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
736
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:02:00 -
[311] - Quote
Woo Glin wrote:What about taking the isk that is on banned accounts or removed due to botting and using it to reimburse people who where scammed? I was promised a spot in Pandemic Legion if I paid a fee of 500M and now I barely have enough to replace my scythe and can't mine because of an afk cloacker which is a different issue but it basically keeps me from enjoying the game.
ugh |
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Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:04:00 -
[312] - Quote
Woo Glin wrote:What about taking the isk that is on banned accounts or removed due to botting and using it to reimburse people who where scammed? I was promised a spot in Pandemic Legion if I paid a fee of 500M and now I barely have enough to replace my scythe and can't mine because of an afk cloacker which is a different issue but it basically keeps me from enjoying the game.
best troll ever or... go back to wow idiot |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
739
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:06:00 -
[313] - Quote
Z2ZzzzZ2Z wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Ganthrithor wrote:You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.
Just cyan. I don't disagree. We also don't support loan systems. This is why if I'm correct you have a subforum as you stated for loans and the punishment for defaulting on said loan is player justice not an in-game action from CCP. We didn't design a loan system. Maybe it's something we should do, maybe not, the point is that yourself and others are making a big to-do about A) Something that we haven't had to do anything about yet because nobody's been snagged wrongly to date B) Something that is a player-run mechanic. I can't provide validation around something we didn't create. i just want to know about the loan thing.... that troubles me. will bans be implemented for some1 who loans money to some1 who is a RMT or if the isk is just gone. isk gone i'm fine with, account actions of any kind....not so much. then the "knowing" part comes in.... you are putting the cart before the horse ... so to speak. you never answered my original question which was this exactly. again... i'm not looking to get around the rules but you never even made it clear. loans happen.... its part of any game, supported or not. eve is supposed to be a sand box. so now i can't make loans cause its not in the game structure? of course not. this is ridiculous. so again -tldr version- Can an account get banned for making a loan to an account involved in RMT, knowningly or not? the loaned iskies lost is a risk of playing the game... but are there other actions beyond that? - /tldr- answer those 2 questions and 90% of the crap u have been getting will go away. from what i can see ccp did well on this...except for the transparency part....not about how the individuals are caught (that would be plain stupid). but definitively the rules of what is allowed (hypothetical or not... the elusiveness seems to be because nobody knows exactly what is going on) as well as the punishments need to be known. that's just a huge DUH
We do not nor will we ever secure a loan. From our perspective if you make a loan you may as well be giving it away regardless of whether the guy's an rmter or not.
If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.
In other words "loan" can mean a lot of things and I can't judge a case that hasn't happened as I've been saying. The case itself would be judged on its own merits and likely no two would be the same. You will NOT get a blanket answer from me on this question other than "We do not secure loans ever". |
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Sturmwolke
157
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:10:00 -
[314] - Quote
Can we expect quarterly updates on RMT & bots (ala QEN)? (mainly for visibility purposes). Whats your comment on isk laundering schemes? |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
739
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:13:00 -
[315] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:Can we expect quarterly updates on RMT & bots (ala QEN)? (mainly for visibility purposes). Whats your comment of isk laundering schemes?
You can expect regular reports. You've gotten two blogs out of me in a month plus fanfest. What we'll look to do in the least is have Stillman show results, graphs, numbers and statistics regularly and I'll probably moonwalk away until something changes. I'll work on schedules with him in the morning as I would like to commit to having things out regularly. |
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Recoil Happens
Debatable Results
38
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:14:00 -
[316] - Quote
Yeaah, BAY BEE !!
Rip some new fecal spreading orifices for those lying, cheating, "I dunno know who my daddy is?!" perps.
This game will do perfectly well without them, never relent, never cut them slack, Death Sentences to all cheating accounts!!
I have not been more happy with you, CCP, since Unholy Rage. Just don't let this be a one off grandstand like that was and have business as usual a few hours later.
Make them understand, that you will take the mins from the super caps they reprocess to hide them from being confiscated.
Use the RICO act outline from the United States to crack down on organizations involved in criminal activity. Take the one piece of trit from all their rookie ships. Seize their slaverhounds. Drop them off in an asteroid belt and make them walk home then ban 'em!!
Go after your GTC resellers who also are doing RMT - get cyber sniffing bloodhounds to find any links between the GTC resellers with the RMT sites and go back in history as far as you like.
Institute safeguards to prevent those banned from re-birthing themselves as innocents. Do as other game companies have done by including machine specific ID points and put it into the EULA, so if cheaters want to re-birth themselves, they will have to just about replace their entire computer computer.
Bad seeds need to fall to the ground and rot.
N E V E R G I V E U P !! The people who are not trying to screw (think of a thin metal cylindrical item with threads on it which is used to hold together two pieces of would when screwed together) your company are behind you. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
496
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:18:00 -
[317] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.
First of all I apologize for having been so suspicious, the "customer service" made me jaded about EvE enough that I quit over it in the past.
Now on the question: what does "flagged" mean? Is it a ban? Or half ban? Or you go in some black list? Or wach list? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
cyndrogen
Occultum Scientia
37
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:20:00 -
[318] - Quote
I am 110% against BOTS and RMT farmers etc..... however I would REALLY like a serious answer to this question.
The reason BOTS exist is because a game mechanic exists where no human intelligence is required to complete the task. A BOT is capable of performing a game task much better then a human because this is actually a GAME DESIGN FLAW.
I hate to say it but botting exists because the activity of mining ore and ice is brainless, requiers no skills and can be automated.
Several people have made good suggestions on how to improve the game and make it more fun while making it harder for botting to occur, yet here we are banning accounts.You would not need to pay a security team a ton of REAL money if you actually use that money to fix the game mechanics.
Which begs the question, is it cheaper to pay a security team money to ban botters instead of fixing the actual game mechanics? |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
201
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:21:00 -
[319] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: We do not nor will we ever secure a loan. From our perspective if you make a loan you may as well be giving it away regardless of whether the guy's an rmter or not.
If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.
In other words "loan" can mean a lot of things and I can't judge a case that hasn't happened as I've been saying. The case itself would be judged on its own merits and likely no two would be the same. You will NOT get a blanket answer from me on this question other than "We do not secure loans ever".
This already sounds a lot better than the "unwittingly loan isk to RMTer, get permabanned" thing everyone thought was going on.
I think I see what you meant now when you said "CCP doesn't secure your loans." People (ok, maybe I speak for myself here) aren't worried about losing the loaned isk, they're worried about "hey I loaned a guy isk, now all my accounts are perma'd." If you're accidentally flagged and you can explain the situation to a GM and get the ban reversed, that's not nearly as big of a deal. |
Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:22:00 -
[320] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Neither RMT nor bot-related activity have any place in New Eden any longer and the security team is willing to play chicken as long as it takes to get that message across.
I love the work you're doing on this and look forward to seeing the long term effects in the game.
Back in love with CCP again! |
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Potamus Jenkins
The Lucky Bible Company
64
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:23:00 -
[321] - Quote
loving this post
whiners:
"I COULD BE BANNED FOR RECEIVING RMT'D ISK"
CCP : "YOU WONT BE BANNED YOU MAY JUST LOSE THE RMT'D MONEY
WHINERS : "BUT ILL BE BANNED?!?!"
CCP : "YOU WONT GET BANNED JUST MONEY REMOVED
WHINERS : "ILL BE BANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNED..." |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
742
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:27:00 -
[322] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.
First of all I apologize for having been so suspicious, the "customer service" made me jaded about EvE enough that I quit over it in the past. Now on the question: what does "flagged" mean? Is it a ban? Or half ban? Or you go in some black list? Or wach list?
That just means activity has occurred that we're going to perform some action on. That action would depend on the activity at the time. |
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Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:28:00 -
[323] - Quote
cyndrogen wrote:I am 110% against BOTS and RMT farmers etc..... however I would REALLY like a serious answer to this question.
The reason BOTS exist is because a game mechanic exists where no human intelligence is required to complete the task. A BOT is capable of performing a game task much better then a human because this is actually a GAME DESIGN FLAW.
I hate to say it but botting exists because the activity of mining ore and ice is brainless, requiers no skills and can be automated.
Several people have made good suggestions on how to improve the game and make it more fun while making it harder for botting to occur, yet here we are banning accounts.You would not need to pay a security team a ton of REAL money if you actually use that money to fix the game mechanics.
Which begs the question, is it cheaper to pay a security team money to ban botters instead of fixing the actual game mechanics?
To quote Raph Koster's Laws of Online World Design (http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/laws.shtml) : "No matter what you do, someone is going to automate the process of playing your world."
Pretty much all PvE can be automated, it's not necessarily entirely an issue with game mechanics. I know people who mine lots. |
Hamster Too
Golden Fowl Silent Requiem
30
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:29:00 -
[324] - Quote
Allataria wrote: All I see here is I'm a pubbie who likes to mission customer the how I play. Try ratting in null sec for 6 hours a day and tell me its more fun and productive then missions. Oh that's right its not. CCP is failing to look at reasons and causes to hitting and is lazy going for the easy fix. Long time players have tried in vain to express the shortcomings of the game but it has fallen on deaf ears time and time again. Maybe when these bots get banned and loads of long timers stop subbing and the in game market falls apart and CCP starts to.lose.money they will see the larger picture.
Stop whining. If none of the multitude of ways to make ISK does not appeal to you then leave it to people enjoying those activities and use PLEX and/or GTC to fund your PvP habit. Spend those 6 hours in RL job, convert the earned money to ISK using one of the official, legal ways and have fun blowing up the ships.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
742
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:31:00 -
[325] - Quote
cyndrogen wrote:I am 110% against BOTS and RMT farmers etc..... however I would REALLY like a serious answer to this question.
The reason BOTS exist is because a game mechanic exists where no human intelligence is required to complete the task. A BOT is capable of performing a game task much better then a human because this is actually a GAME DESIGN FLAW.
I hate to say it but botting exists because the activity of mining ore and ice is brainless, requiers no skills and can be automated.
Several people have made good suggestions on how to improve the game and make it more fun while making it harder for botting to occur, yet here we are banning accounts.You would not need to pay a security team a ton of REAL money if you actually use that money to fix the game mechanics.
Which begs the question, is it cheaper to pay a security team money to ban botters instead of fixing the actual game mechanics?
Yeah posting the same question that's already been answered in this thread isn't going to get you an answer you like better. I believe your assertion to be absolutely incorrect 100%.
By this standard, as I said earlier, every MMO ever was a boring noninteractive game and every one in the future will be as well.
I'm glad you got your message out though. Again. Stay Strong! |
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ISquishWorms
109
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:31:00 -
[326] - Quote
Been waiting a long time for this.
One of the most welcome threads ever great work CCP Sreegs you have my full support and I guess I have your love as I don't cheat (it ruins games and makes them pointless well in my eyes) even though I give you lot at CCP a hard time now and then. |
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:31:00 -
[327] - Quote
[quote=CCP Sreegs
We do not nor will we ever secure a loan. From our perspective if you make a loan you may as well be giving it away regardless of whether the guy's an rmter or not
If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.
In other words "loan" can mean a lot of things and I can't judge a case that hasn't happened as I've been saying. The case itself would be judged on its own merits and likely no two would be the same. You will NOT get a blanket answer from me on this question other than "We do not secure loans ever".[/quote
as i said. i don't care about the isk. again; risk you take. anybody that expects loans secured or reimbursed is .... well like that goon earlier. belong playing something simpler...like farmville...that caters to their particular mindset.
the slight risk sounds innocuous and i understand your hesitance to commit to anything but (maybe not here) this needs to be further elaborated on. slight risk? so if my buddy who played in my alliance for years goes out and buys a couple bill from a RMT and gets caught. but not before i borrow isk from him...am i in trouble? i still owe a buddy almost a bill from...i dunno a month ago when an account needed a gtc. this stuff happens all the time
"i need a ship but i'm broke "here is isk go get a ship pay me back when you can [person you have known for a while]
ALL THE TIME
i do it when i have money and my friends do it when they do....help each out. that's what we do.
my point is that ( AGAIN!!!! ) ccp seems to have jumped the gun....gone off half cocked...prematurely....yeah anyways.. they didn't fully consider the ramifacations of their actions. even if its not something that i will get in trouble for, its something that i worry about. given ccp's track record of "our logs are useless and show about as much mormon ****" just makes me even more uneasy.
i need more than what has been given. i consider myself a citizen of new eden (without going all rp). a member of the community. i have been since 2003. i expect to know the rules of the society in which i chose to participate. i know the laws in my own country better than most lawyers...or try to... best way to stay out of trouble is to know what will get you into it. so please. you don't seem to admit that there is anything even wrong with how this is handled. that is almost as troubling.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
742
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:32:00 -
[328] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: We do not nor will we ever secure a loan. From our perspective if you make a loan you may as well be giving it away regardless of whether the guy's an rmter or not.
If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.
In other words "loan" can mean a lot of things and I can't judge a case that hasn't happened as I've been saying. The case itself would be judged on its own merits and likely no two would be the same. You will NOT get a blanket answer from me on this question other than "We do not secure loans ever".
This already sounds a lot better than the "unwittingly loan isk to RMTer, get permabanned" thing everyone thought was going on. I think I see what you meant now when you said "CCP doesn't secure your loans." People (ok, maybe I speak for myself here) aren't worried about losing the loaned isk, they're worried about "hey I loaned a guy isk, now all my accounts are perma'd." If you're accidentally flagged and you can explain the situation to a GM and get the ban reversed, that's not nearly as big of a deal. As you said, any capital we hand over to loan-seekers comes with the risk of not getting it back.
The GMs would hand the query over to us to run at this point and we do the inspection. We just don't directly handle petitions. |
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Hans Tria
Dark Matter Inc
7
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:35:00 -
[329] - Quote
I have reported a lot of suspected RMT, but have always done so by petition (the EULA, etc section).
Is it better to report via the security email address?
Does the way it is reported affect the possibility of earning plex for your trouble? I have gone through quite a bit of work to trace rings and corps engaged in RMT by digging through contract history and "following-the-money." I am also quite sure that many of these petitions have resulted in busts as certain of these characters and corps. no longer seem to exist :). |
Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
70
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Posted - 2012.04.04 00:36:00 -
[330] - Quote
CCP Sreegs do you watch the prices from RMTers ?
would be interresting if prices go up now What a lot of goon need to realise is that its not because we hate you that we do these things Its because -áWE LOVE YOU Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume! |
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