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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 100 post(s) |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
60
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:50:00 -
[241] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Then I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. :)
Yeah, I get the point, you're the CCP employee and I'm not, and I can't force you to publish the information I want to see.
However, you're going to see impressive new levels of outrage if you start "ending" alliances for RMTing without clearly defined procedures for how to do it and how to handle the impact on players who were not involved in RMTing themselves. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
493
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:50:00 -
[242] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:How do I know this person is trustworthy? In EvE none the less? It could be (and in my case was) a very trusted MD forum investors known for years by everyone as upstanding and clean.
I did all my duties yet he ended up being somewhat related to a RMTer.
Teach me how to avoid this, I am all ears. you could audi... oh wait only an idiot would trust your audits my mistake
Only an idiot could think he can read a second order transaction off a third party into an API key. Keep trying. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
4
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:50:00 -
[243] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:DeODokktor wrote:Adding a Secure Loan (Where the game holds all ITEMS in Escrow until the loan is repaid according to terms) would mean that all of my loans are 100% secure. And also 100% pointless, since if I can allow you to hold on to items worth what you're loaning me then I can just sell those items on the market myself (other than rigged ships, I suppose) and get the money.
Items sold on the market are done so at a loss. Also, Blueprints, UltraRare Items (currently being removed by CCP cause they are confused), Limited Items, and large bulks of items are not ideal things to sell. For some users who only deal with basic market items then I guess selling is the best option, some of us go well in excess of the limits of the ibis. |
orphenshadow
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
57
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:51:00 -
[244] - Quote
Merin Ryskin wrote:DeODokktor wrote:Adding a Secure Loan (Where the game holds all ITEMS in Escrow until the loan is repaid according to terms) would mean that all of my loans are 100% secure. And also 100% pointless, since if I can allow you to hold on to items worth what you're loaning me then I can just sell those items on the market myself (other than rigged ships, I suppose) and get the money.
A secure loan feature would be cooll
Something where you actually have to develop a credit rating with small loans.. and the loans are backed by your personal wallet..
Default on a loan.. = neg balance.
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EvilweaselFinance
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:51:00 -
[245] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier. You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThose may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is. I hope that helps.
Just a quick note, this is not correct: ccp has a sanctioned way you may trade a GTC securely to another player for isk (without plex) that can be accessed here: https://secure.eveonline.com/ETC |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
718
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:53:00 -
[246] - Quote
orphenshadow wrote:Sounds sexy..
One thing I'm curious about.. It's kind of a hypothetical scenario but...
How does one figure out what isk was generated with a bot vs actual work..
For instance. If a player spent a lot of time actually ratting and doing stuff. But decided to run a bot for a few hours while he/she goes pvp on another toon..
How would CCP know that x isk was from bot, and y isk was legit?
Not that this scenario is even realistic. I'm pretty sure those with access to bots would never have the desire to rat :P
We don't differentiate. Don't bot and you won't ever have to care. |
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Days Mahyisti
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:54:00 -
[247] - Quote
Sreegs, how would I go about doing the Bot report thing? Would I right click on the persons name, or..? |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
719
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:54:00 -
[248] - Quote
Shandir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier. You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThose may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is. I hope that helps. I believe this is inaccurate given there's a GTC > ISK trading forum and feature in account management on EVE's site. Legal ways to get 3rd party GTCs into ISK. Either GTC > PLEX conversion feature in game > ISK, or GTC > GTC trading feature on EVE's site > ISK.
That's what I get for reposting what someone else said v0v
If those things exist then yeah I guess you can use them. |
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
4
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Posted - 2012.04.03 21:59:00 -
[249] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Shandir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier. You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThose may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is. I hope that helps. I believe this is inaccurate given there's a GTC > ISK trading forum and feature in account management on EVE's site. Legal ways to get 3rd party GTCs into ISK. Either GTC > PLEX conversion feature in game > ISK, or GTC > GTC trading feature on EVE's site > ISK. That's what I get for reposting what someone else said v0v If those things exist then yeah I guess you can use them.
Nice, Another dev in charge of something who doesnt know of the mechanisms that the game has in play to support "Legal RMT". Lets hope he didnt ban every player from feb/march who traded GTC for ISK via the forums ;P... |
Victor Twenty
Odyssey Space Exploration
16
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:04:00 -
[250] - Quote
One small step for CCP, one giant leap for all EVE players.
Keep up the good work CCP.
Vic20 |
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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
1429
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:06:00 -
[251] - Quote
Quote:How do I know this person is trustworthy? In EvE none the less? It could be (and in my case was) a very trusted MD forum investors known for years by everyone as upstanding and clean.
I did all my duties yet he ended up being somewhat related to a RMTer.
Teach me how to avoid this, I am all ears.
I personally would not loan ISK (or cash for that matter) to anyone unless I personally knew them. I don't tend to go by reputation, as I have known players "reputed" to be very above board that ended up confessing that they purchased ISK outside of approved mechanics and never mentioned it to anyone until caught.
If I, who am well know to be very outspoken against RMT activities (and a generally all around nice guy ), asked you to loan me ISK common sense would dictate that you would not do so.
You don't know me, you only (at best) know OF me... and really have no idea what I do when nobody is watching.
However, if one of your buddies (that you know well and trust) asked for a loan I would say go for it. Unless, of course, you know he is one of those "buddies" that doesn't mind cheating and wouldn't take seriously anything that might happen to you in a game as a result.
Does it make it harder to gift some poor noob you'd like to help out? Yeah, it does.
But who do you blame for that... CCP? I really don't think so.
When I check troll in the dictionary, it has a photo shopped picture of you standing somewhere in the vicinity of a point.
Also, I can kill you with my brain. |
Blastcaps Madullier
Celestial Horizon Corp. Flatline.
17
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:06:00 -
[252] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:CRAP I REPLIED TOOO SOOOOOON
Think you just found your forum sig sreegs :P
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
719
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:10:00 -
[253] - Quote
DeODokktor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Shandir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier. You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThose may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is. I hope that helps. I believe this is inaccurate given there's a GTC > ISK trading forum and feature in account management on EVE's site. Legal ways to get 3rd party GTCs into ISK. Either GTC > PLEX conversion feature in game > ISK, or GTC > GTC trading feature on EVE's site > ISK. That's what I get for reposting what someone else said v0v If those things exist then yeah I guess you can use them. Nice, Another dev in charge of something who doesnt know of the mechanisms that the game has in play to support "Legal RMT". Lets hope he didnt ban every player from feb/march who traded GTC for ISK via the forums ;P...
To be fair you can't do anything with ETCs in game. All of the trading happens outside of the game on the website. |
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Jita Alt666
987
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:15:00 -
[254] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:DeODokktor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Shandir wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:To clarify on the ETC question regarding Shattered Crystal and our other resellers from earlier. You may purchase 60 day ETCs from official resellers: https://secure.eveonline.com/etc.aspxThose may then be converted for PLEX. They cannot be converted directly into isk. Only PLEX may be converted to isk. The only place to buy PLEX is from the account management section of our website or ingame for is. I hope that helps. I believe this is inaccurate given there's a GTC > ISK trading forum and feature in account management on EVE's site. Legal ways to get 3rd party GTCs into ISK. Either GTC > PLEX conversion feature in game > ISK, or GTC > GTC trading feature on EVE's site > ISK. That's what I get for reposting what someone else said v0v If those things exist then yeah I guess you can use them. Nice, Another dev in charge of something who doesnt know of the mechanisms that the game has in play to support "Legal RMT". Lets hope he didnt ban every player from feb/march who traded GTC for ISK via the forums ;P... To be fair you can't do anything with ETCs in game. All of the trading happens outside of the game on the website.
Which is completely outside of Sreegs scope.
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Cyclar
Rustbucket Industries
9
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:21:00 -
[255] - Quote
Great job Sreegs.
To all of you who worry that people might get wrongfully caught up in this: Don't worry. Im sure the methods and data mining technologies used for this is far more sophisticated than you can imagine.
I have complete confidence that this will not result in many false positives - if it over time results in one or two, im sure it will be sorted out.
Again, absolutely great job Sreegs!
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Catho Sharn
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
29
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:26:00 -
[256] - Quote
You know what we really need? A desktop-sized version of the Joe poster, that's what!
ps - Kudos to the security team.
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orphenshadow
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
57
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:32:00 -
[257] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:orphenshadow wrote:Sounds sexy..
One thing I'm curious about.. It's kind of a hypothetical scenario but...
How does one figure out what isk was generated with a bot vs actual work..
For instance. If a player spent a lot of time actually ratting and doing stuff. But decided to run a bot for a few hours while he/she goes pvp on another toon..
How would CCP know that x isk was from bot, and y isk was legit?
Not that this scenario is even realistic. I'm pretty sure those with access to bots would never have the desire to rat :P We don't differentiate. Don't bot and you won't ever have to care.
So. You steal money that was legally earned. Gotcha.
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Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Ev0ke
67
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:34:00 -
[258] - Quote
Buzzy Warstl wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Buzzy Warstl wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:What percentage of people do you suppose would actually use that? It's certainly feasible but adoption rates are abysmal out in the world. Debian signs their security announcements. They are completely accessible to people not using PGP/GPG and are authenticated for people who are using them. Yeah I know some people sign their emails, what I'm saying is given the work that would go into implementing such a system how many people would actually gain benefit from it. PGP signing adoption rates are terrible or were at least the last time I checked. True, I'd be surprised if the Debian security mailing list had more than a few thousand subscribers, and that may include everyone who uses GPG who isn't on FreeBSD. Also true (and a +like for FreeBSD).
Sadly, business-wise it probably isn't enough benefit to warrant any attention. Even though the marketing department would probably not have to script openssl into muttrc.
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Iniquita
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
48
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:34:00 -
[259] - Quote
Are you simply negging individuals or are corp wallets getting hit by this as well? |
Potamus Jenkins
The Lucky Bible Company
64
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:38:00 -
[260] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:CCP Guard wrote:Buying and selling ISK is bad m-Škay. And CCP Sreegs is here to tell you what Team Security is doing about it. Read the blog here and let us know if you have feedback or questions for us. I have a question CCP Guard "Neither RMT nor bot-related activity have any place in New Eden any longer" odd choice of phrasing on the dev blog, implication being CCP condoned botting till recently.... Also are CCP Games going to take actions against companys producing botting programs? activision-blizzard did a while ago against wow glider so might be worth CCPs legal department looking at the case files, judgements etc and see how/if they can be applied against bot producing companys selling their botting software commercialy
they stated in a blog or post somewhere that i believe during incarna and before they were pretty much asleep at the wheel as far as fighting bots. |
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Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
508
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:39:00 -
[261] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: To be fair you can't do anything with ETCs in game. All of the trading happens outside of the game on the website.
Which is completely outside of Sreegs scope. not really
the problem is that ever since CCP started sending newbies "PLEX are a great way to get ISK, buy some now!" emails, RMT sites have put the direct sale of ISK on the backburner and are instead emphasizing the sale of PLEX in their advertisements - because now everybody knows that buying PLEX to get some ISK is legit....
Back in the day the division was easy - GTCs are legit and everything else is bad RMT. There was no way a RMT site could have gotten their fingers on working GTCs without CCP seeing their cut.
Now CCP sells PLEX which is good. And RMT sites sell PLEX which is bad.
Every time CCP advertises PLEX as legal RMT, "bad" RMT sites profit because they sell the very same product as CCP (which was not possible with GTCs) and the "... but only if you buy it from eveonline.com" gets swept under the rug.
Anyone wanting to combat RMT has to deal with this issue sooner or later - and while Sreegs cannot solve it on his own (guess bizdev are happy that they can sell 2 PLEX for more $$ than 1 GTC and won't let go off that easily) he should at least be very aware of the problem.
If he himself has lost track of legal vs illegal RMT, how is he supposed to prevent Joe Rookie from stumbling into the same trap? Oh but he isn't supposed to prevent that? his job only involves technical detection means and infrequent appeals to the playerbase to please change their behavior? he doesn't care about anything outside that narrow field of vision?
well, you only solve a problem on the scale of RMT in EVE by taking a coordinated & holistic approach across departments. Not by saying "oh but this is the job of game design", "and this is due to business development", "and that's the work of GMs", ... If that is the case then get game design, Business Development and GMs on one table and solve the problem together.
CCP Sreegs will always end up as the spokesperson and player contact for any sort of bad behavior, no matter whether he thinks it falls into his responsibility or not.
edit: directionless post lacks direction, I'm too tired to write concisely but I hope the gist of it is clear |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
725
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:40:00 -
[262] - Quote
Iniquita wrote:Are you simply negging individuals or are corp wallets getting hit by this as well?
We're reversing RMT transactions wherever they ended up. |
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Allataria
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:44:00 -
[263] - Quote
Screegs,
Does ISBoxer count as a botting program to get banned? Someone was saying that that particular program was allowed by EVE but I can't see how any third party program that runs the game for you would be allowed. Please confirm? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
494
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:46:00 -
[264] - Quote
How long till Chribba and Grendell get both banned for having contracted RMTed supercapitals with their 3rd party services?
They transacted so many it's statistically impossible not one of them came from RMT yet they have the same tools I have (that is ZERO) to make sure who you deal with is not tied to RMT. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
726
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:47:00 -
[265] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Jita Alt666 wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: To be fair you can't do anything with ETCs in game. All of the trading happens outside of the game on the website.
Which is completely outside of Sreegs scope. not really the problem is that ever since CCP started sending newbies "PLEX are a great way to get ISK, buy some now!" emails, RMT sites have put the direct sale of ISK on the backburner and are instead emphasizing the sale of PLEX in their advertisements - because now everybody knows that buying PLEX to get some ISK is legit.... Back in the day the division was easy - GTCs are legit and everything else is bad RMT. There was no way a RMT site could have gotten their fingers on working GTCs without CCP seeing their cut. Now CCP sells PLEX which is good. And RMT sites sell PLEX which is bad. Every time CCP advertises PLEX as legal RMT, "bad" RMT sites profit because they sell the very same product as CCP (which was not possible with GTCs) and the "... but only if you buy it from eveonline.com" gets swept under the rug. Anyone wanting to combat RMT has to deal with this issue sooner or later - and while Sreegs cannot solve it on his own (guess bizdev are happy that they can sell 2 PLEX for more $$ than 1 GTC and won't let go off that easily) he should at least be very aware of the problem. If he himself has lost track of legal vs illegal RMT, how is he supposed to prevent Joe Rookie from stumbling into the same trap? Oh but he isn't supposed to prevent that? his job only involves technical detection means and infrequent appeals to the playerbase to please change their behavior? he doesn't care about anything outside that narrow field of vision? well, you only solve a problem on the scale of RMT in EVE by taking a coordinated & holistic approach across departments. Not by saying "oh but this is the job of game design", "and this is due to business development", "and that's the work of GMs", ... If that is the case then get game design, Business Development and GMs on one table and solve the problem together. CCP Sreegs will always end up as the spokesperson and player contact for any sort of bad behavior, no matter whether he thinks it falls into his responsibility or not. edit: directionless post lacks direction, I'm too tired to write concisely but I hope the gist of it is clear
Just to make sure we're clear unless the post comes from me in this thread or another blue poster it is conjecture and should be treated as such. I really don't need players answering questions about things they don't know anything about, least of all what my job responsibilities are. |
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Amanda Humphries
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:48:00 -
[266] - Quote
First of all, a big thumbs up to the CCP security team. This has been a long time coming and I'm sure this will have huge impacts on the quality of the game.
Secondly, I'm not sure if this has been looked into, but perhaps there should be a feature implemented where you have to approve of someone giving you isk before it goes into your wallet. This will prevent the tactic of sending RMT'd isk to your enemies and reduce the workload on the security team.
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
726
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:49:00 -
[267] - Quote
Allataria wrote:Screegs,
Does ISBoxer count as a botting program to get banned? Someone was saying that that particular program was allowed by EVE but I can't see how any third party program that runs the game for you would be allowed. Please confirm?
I won't say it's ok but people have said certain GMs have. I'm not banning for it today and given the way the subject has been communicated we'll send out an announcement before we do. |
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Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
201
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:51:00 -
[268] - Quote
Ugh this forum is literally the worst (or the best, depending on how you see it)-- press post, no posting happens.
Anyway, tl;dp: Given that RMTers will lie about why they want ISK, and perspective loans are usually evaluated based on the loanee's ability to repay the loan (their wealth, repayment track record, etc), how the hell are we supposed to magically know who is and who isn't an RMTer when we go to loan people ISK?
Serious question. I'm part of an alliance of 5k plus players (you may have heard of them). We have a whole sub-forum dedicated to player contracts (largely loans). I have a pile of spacebux of my own and loan some of that out to people periodically based on whether or not I think that person can and will pay me back. How is this supposed to continue to be a thing if you can find yourself permabanned not for botting or RMTing but merely for loaning isk to ONE CHARACTER of someone who does RMT (which could involve any of the accounts that person has on the books, including characters that may or may not be in your alliance at all)? |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
726
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:52:00 -
[269] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:How long till Chribba and Grendell get both banned for having contracted RMTed supercapitals with their 3rd party services?
They transacted so many it's statistically impossible not one of them came from RMT yet they have the same tools I have (that is ZERO) to make sure who you deal with is not tied to RMT.
I guess they can petition when it happens just like everyone else. (it hasn't happened) |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
726
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Posted - 2012.04.03 22:53:00 -
[270] - Quote
Amanda Humphries wrote:First of all, a big thumbs up to the CCP security team. This has been a long time coming and I'm sure this will have huge impacts on the quality of the game.
Secondly, I'm not sure if this has been looked into, but perhaps there should be a feature implemented where you have to approve of someone giving you isk before it goes into your wallet. This will prevent the tactic of sending RMT'd isk to your enemies and reduce the workload on the security team.
It doesn't change anything from our perspective. You'd in a worst case scenario be out the isk you received. |
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