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Quantum Kill Patch - Caldari Unplayable

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Framerunner Caldari New Eden Freedom Inc. Die Asteroiden Pluenderer	Posted - 2008.11.12 18:53:00 - [1] Since the new patch the Caldari is a ****ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Caldari is no longer useful... No PVP no Missions... One more reason to quit from eve online....
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.12 18:55:00 - [2] THE SKY IS FALLING! Hint: I'm ratting in my cerb right now and it's fine.
Popsikle Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.11.12 18:56:00 - [3] Quick! someone call the WHAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE! For far too long you got used to being overpowered, now welcome to real EVE where stuff is not handed to you on a silver platter. Learn to adapt, or move on. All the other races had to a long long long time ago. ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime.
Encon Caldari Raging God's	Posted - 2008.11.12 18:56:00 - [4] can i get your stuff? no use for a sig
Rhatar Khurin Minmatar Free Ammatar Aid Organisation	Posted - 2008.11.12 18:56:00 - [5] Ca... ah nevermind. Byeeeeeeeeee!
Kransthow The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.12 18:57:00 - [6] Adapt or die
Ultrakorne	Posted - 2008.11.12 18:58:00 - [7] i have a 20 day character on a caracal... i cannot do mission anymore.. from easy to impossible... i tryed a quest for 6 hours... its a bug, obviously. i ll wait until they fix, i cannot do missions now.. this is not a nerf, this is unplayable.
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:01:00 - [8] Originally by: Ultrakorne i have a 20 day character on a caracal... i cannot do mission anymore.. from easy to impossible... i tryed a quest for 6 hours... its a bug, obviously. i ll wait until they fix, i cannot do missions now.. this is not a nerf, this is unplayable. Go back to L1 missions till you have more SP? Try hybrid turrets instead? Maybe the erra of the 4 week character in a raven sleeping through L4s is finally coming to an end.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:02:00 - [9] Mission Complete!
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Product Number 3	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Nekopyat Originally by: Ultrakorne i have a 20 day character on a caracal... i cannot do mission anymore.. from easy to impossible... i tryed a quest for 6 hours... its a bug, obviously. i ll wait until they fix, i cannot do missions now.. this is not a nerf, this is unplayable. Go back to L1 missions till you have more SP? Try hybrid turrets instead? Maybe the erra of the 4 week character in a raven sleeping through L4s is finally coming to an end. It never existed, but maybe the era of incorrect generalizations is coming to an end?

Mithfindel Gallente Gariushi Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:03:00 - [11] Edited by: Mithfindel on 12/11/2008 19:04:21 Impressive. No one has yet asked for the OP's stuff. Or suggested going to a certain another MMO. In any case, consider fitting mods that help on the points you are not happy with. Though if finding a good fit on yourself is totally impossible, there will soonish be adequate fits published I'm sure. On the positive side, warping into a mission/belt and going F1, F2, F3 has been changed to warping to a belt and just pressing F1. Unless using mentioned modules that might help, in that case you might need a few extra keypresses, but still less than before. (Edit: Clarified)
S1r Minealot Shade. Penumbra Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:04:00 - [12] Originally by: Framerunner Since the new patch the Caldari is a ****ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Caldari is no longer useful... No PVP no Missions... One more reason to quit from eve online.... wherent you one of the guys whining about the nano's
Madmartigane	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:05:00 - [13] Farewell peck. I will miss you.
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:07:00 - [14] Goog job I can only use guns then. ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Meister75th Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:07:00 - [15] Originally by: Framerunner Since the new patch the Caldari is a **ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Caldari is no longer useful... No PVP no Missions... One more reason to quit from eve online.... so gtfo outta the raven and fly a drake like I do... the drake now most definately has the better tank.. and more consistant dps.. and probably as much as the raven... plus it can only use light drones so no worries about drones that cant hit everything! well looky here the BC is now better than the BS.. so whaddya do? Get in the mother***** BC... if not please send all your isk to me ;)
Ultrakorne	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Nekopyat Originally by: Ultrakorne i have a 20 day character on a caracal... i cannot do mission anymore.. from easy to impossible... i tryed a quest for 6 hours... its a bug, obviously. i ll wait until they fix, i cannot do missions now.. this is not a nerf, this is unplayable. Go back to L1 missions till you have more SP? Try hybrid turrets instead? Maybe the erra of the 4 week character in a raven sleeping through L4s is finally coming to an end. the problem is i need 12-14 light missile to kill a frigate... and L1 quests are full.. yes of course i can go back to an ibis and redo the tutorial, why not? yes the solution is using hybrit turrets.. but this is what we are talking about. missile are useless and if u say to use turrets to do L1-2 missions you get the point
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Ultrakorne and L1 quests are full.. yes of course i can go back to an ibis and redo the tutorial, why not? yes the solution is using hybrit turrets.. but this is what we are talking about. missile are useless and if u say to use turrets to do L1-2 missions you get the point Hello troll You posted same in another thread even with the obvious flame bait quest references. Now move back under bridge, and try harder.
Vengal Seyhan Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:13:00 - [18] You know, with the amazing amount of whining about PvP that was going on, it's entirely possible that CCP haven't had the time to properly look at and re-balance mission NPCs for the new system. You can blame yourselves for all the flameage that was going back and forth :D Personally I've been hearing a lot of complaints about medium drones vs frigates in missions from amongst my corp.
Ultrakorne	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:14:00 - [19] Originally by: Lady Karma Originally by: Ultrakorne and L1 quests are full.. yes of course i can go back to an ibis and redo the tutorial, why not? yes the solution is using hybrit turrets.. but this is what we are talking about. missile are useless and if u say to use turrets to do L1-2 missions you get the point Hello troll You posted same in another thread even with the obvious flame bait quest references. Now move back under bridge, and try harder. so what :) i cannot do missions so i spend my time surfing the forum. i am not flaming anyone btw
WhiteSavage Gallente Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:16:00 - [20] You should whine about it. People care. ___________________________________________ ..My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes

Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:16:00 - [21] Originally by: Ultrakorne so what :) i cannot do missions so i spend my time surfing the forum. i am not flaming anyone btw Ok, I'll bite then. It's because you are **** and have no skills. You should just biomass your character and quit eve. Is that what you were looking for?
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:17:00 - [22] Originally by: Ultrakorne the problem is i need 12-14 light missile to kill a frigate... and L1 quests are full.. yes of course i can go back to an ibis and redo the tutorial, why not? are.. full? full of what? Quote: yes the solution is using hybrit turrets.. but this is what we are talking about. missile are useless and if u say to use turrets to do L1-2 missions you get the point Missiles still have variable damage type (with no penalty) and FoF rounds, something that weapon types don't have. And from listing to other threads it STILL sounds like cruise missiles do more damage to small targets then turrets so they are far from useless.
Dr Pang	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:18:00 - [23] Originally by: Ultrakorne the problem is i need 12-14 light missile to kill a frigate... and L1 quests are full.. yes of course i can go back to an ibis and redo the tutorial, why not? yes the solution is using hybrit turrets.. but this is what we are talking about. missile are useless and if u say to use turrets to do L1-2 missions you get the point L1 missions... get in a cormarant.. works fine, and lvl2's the Moa is a fine ship, guns, 2 launchers and a smattering of drones... adapt.
Ultrakorne	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:22:00 - [24] Originally by: Lady Karma Originally by: Ultrakorne so what :) i cannot do missions so i spend my time surfing the forum. i am not flaming anyone btw Ok, I'll bite then. It's because you are **** and have no skills. You should just biomass your character and quit eve. Is that what you were looking for? something like that :) be serious, what's the problem? if u could try a low char versus frigate you would change you mind i bet
Bren Kasir Caldari Space Defence	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:25:00 - [25] Nighthawk FTW tbh imo, Drop a target painter on it and utter pwnage awaits --- You want fries with that?
Ultrakorne	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:26:00 - [26] Originally by: Nekopyat Originally by: Ultrakorne the problem is i need 12-14 light missile to kill a frigate... and L1 quests are full.. yes of course i can go back to an ibis and redo the tutorial, why not? are.. full? full of what? Quote: yes the solution is using hybrit turrets.. but this is what we are talking about. missile are useless and if u say to use turrets to do L1-2 missions you get the point Missiles still have variable damage type (with no penalty) and FoF rounds, something that weapon types don't have. And from listing to other threads it STILL sounds like cruise missiles do more damage to small targets then turrets so they are far from useless. full of frigate rats :) i dont know if cruise do more damage to small targets, i can tell for sure that light missiles and even rockets(they suppose to be intended for small targets) do 1/4 damage they should (i think because of the explosion velocity) rockets have 80m/s explosion velocity frigate rats 400~
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:26:00 - [27] Originally by: Ultrakorne something like that :) be serious, what's the problem? if u could try a low char versus frigate you would change you mind i bet When I started, I was doing level 2's in a rifter, and level 3's in a rupture. I didn't fly a BS for about a year. We've all been there in small ships, just sometimes you have to be a little more creative than "sit still, spam missiles" tl/dr: you are doing it wrong
Arianhod	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:28:00 - [28] I recommend the OP refers to this thread. Haruhiists - Overloading Out of Pod discussions since 2007.
Arakidias Murky Inc. Power Of 3	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:30:00 - [29] have you tried using a target painter? might help.
Zeko Rena Caldari Tankt Spectrum Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:31:00 - [30] Nighthawk --------------------------

MenanceWhite Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:31:00 - [31] well look at that. another achura complaining. looks like the whine unill nerf because I suck too much tactic backfired, didnt it -copy paste for every whining achura thread- --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Sirial Soulfly	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:33:00 - [32] Before you whine, please remember everyone is in the same boat, all you need to do is adapt and try to become better then others.
Corwain Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:35:00 - [33] I ran missions yesterday, minor difference if any. Train some (in-game) skills, or learn some (RL) skill. -- Distortion\| Distortion 2 Preview
Ultrakorne	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:35:00 - [34] Originally by: Lady Karma Originally by: Ultrakorne something like that :) be serious, what's the problem? if u could try a low char versus frigate you would change you mind i bet When I started, I was doing level 2's in a rifter, and level 3's in a rupture. I didn't fly a BS for about a year. We've all been there in small ships, just sometimes you have to be a little more creative than "sit still, spam missiles" tl/dr: you are doing it wrong i got that, i have missile bonus ship / class and skill.. its normal that i want to use missiles (and there are a plenty of types) today i spent hours trying fits, changing modules, trying rockets, light, heavy missiles. web, painters belive me. btw i bet they will change something. u think i just whine for nothing because i want to quest with a unfitted ship spamming missiles, i assure i am not.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:43:00 - [35] Edited by: Shadowsword on 12/11/2008 19:44:00 Originally by: Zeko Rena Nighthawk My toughts exactly. Fast enough that going without an AB isn't too painfull, nice 700m3 cargo, nice tank, decent gank, and heavy missiles should be reasonnably effective against anything... And the best is, unlike the fugly raven, the NH actually look good. ------------------------------------------
Asestorian Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:48:00 - [36] I'm getting quite the sense of deja vu here. I feel sorry for the better Caldari players, having to put up with a group as whiny as the rest of them are. Every time something changes with Caldari there are loads of whines. --- Originally by: CCP Atropos Destiny Balls
Ayeless	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:52:00 - [37] I closed two accounts when they nerfed ghost training, now I canceled this account (my last - ends in two days) now my CNR is useless, cya eve :D I've given all my stuff away too
Jazlina	Posted - 2008.11.12 19:56:00 - [38] I have noticed a significant drop in cruise missle effectiveness, even against battleships, it takes me noticably longer to kill battleships and then my raven LIMPS to the wreckage, its sad. My harbinger could kill the battelships faster than my raven could, that is a little backwards. Please UN nerf missles...
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:00:00 - [39] Originally by: Ayeless I closed two accounts when they nerfed ghost training, now I canceled this account (my last - ends in two days) now my CNR is useless, cya eve :D I've given all my stuff away too Still, at least you made a genuine effort to try and adapt before you gave up and threw away millions of SP and billions of ISK. Oh, wait.
Tsual Minmatar Iikhelahii khulemah'lal	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:00:00 - [40] Edited by: Tsual on 12/11/2008 20:07:38 Edited by: Tsual on 12/11/2008 20:02:18 Originally by: Nekopyat Originally by: Ultrakorne the problem is i need 12-14 light missile to kill a frigate... and L1 quests are full.. yes of course i can go back to an ibis and redo the tutorial, why not? are.. full? full of what? Trolls? ******************** Moral is only usefull so far as society demands it from one to accept his presence.

Jhered Stern Caldari x-- Ultima Ratio --x	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:09:00 - [41] Use frig's to kill frig's, crusiers and battle crusiers to kill crusiers and Battlecrusiers and Batleships to kill Battleships. Easy. The missils work fine. there is a diversity of missils in this game for a reason. I do not think CCP is going to apologise to you for taking away your "I WIN" button. Tray a tanked out frigate with rockets..that is fun. Oh and by the way, fight stuff within your skill and experiance range. Take a look at your certificates...if you have none then that should tell you something. Certificates help you see where you are lacking and could help clarify why you can't kill a frigate with heavy missils. Oh and by the way. Caldari Ships have always been slow. I have been flying them since 2003. They are fine. Jhered Out!
NyteTyger	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:10:00 - [42] So, the missiles designed to be launched from slow, heavy boats to hit other slow heavy boats can no longer WTF PWN small, agile fast ships. OH NOES! And finally, Battleships have a reason to carry the heavy drones they are supposed to. I found the addition of target painters, heavy drones, and drone navigation mods (that increase those heavies speeds) let me not only hit frigates, but destroy them. Of course, it was easier to web 'em and let the heavies eat them. Sure, you can't use the same old fit and expect the same old results (OMG who would have thought), but battleships still carry assloads of power, and deliver it well. Not to mention more realistically. Best option though in the frigate heavy missions, where you need to bridge the gap between smaller ships and and the large ships, using the boat DEIGNED FOR THAT EXACT SCENARIO is most effective. Once again, OMG NOES!!!! Go refit, and quit expecting the same fit with the same results after a significant modification. Just to reinforce - OMG, THAT MAKES NO SENSE!!!
Ultrakorne	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:12:00 - [43] Originally by: Tsual Edited by: Tsual on 12/11/2008 20:07:38 Trolls? anyway Assuming he is not one then 12 to 14 are a bit much I also think, so either never looked at the topic npcs and according damage type, or not trained any specialisation skills or an error got into the table for npc ship signatures last but not least formular has a little sign error. Nothing that can't be solved. i assure you i was using the correct damage, i was using ligh missile on frigates (signature 45m). look guys i ll stop whine here (i am going out with my girlfriend i''ll whine with her) but i think there's some mess with the explosion velocity. lets assume damage is "as intended" why lighmissiles has 170m/s velocity and rockets 80 ?? so what the use for rockets? agains bs?
Chlamydia Blunderbuss	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:15:00 - [44] I'm Caldari, my Battleship is working absolutely fine thank you very much. Good job CCP, missiles are finally fixed
Darth Sith Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:16:00 - [45] I've been playing this game since the beginning ..seen all the changes, nerfs , boosts, et all. Never has it been more true then now: ADAPT, CHANGE or get the hell out of the way. Tested my Nighthawk out last night vs smaller ships in missions, yeah it took some tweeking but in the end, worked out a fit that seems to work well. I used to fly Nano... I hated Nano. I like the idea that someone now has to commit to a fight, not zip in, shoot and run like a little schoolgirl when the going gets tough. I love the idea now that the regional gates are huge. Means you can get by the choke point blobs now and get into real fights without having to take 30 of your mates with you every time. Only beef with this patch is the lack of new toys, but meh.. can't win them all . My thumbs are up on this one.
AleRiperKilt	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:22:00 - [46] Edited by: AleRiperKilt on 12/11/2008 20:24:11 Balance it is. I hate to feed the troll but for months I have been ratting in 0.0 with my Domi, I got used to take a few minutes to kill battleship rats with my T1 sentries. A couple weeks ago some miner ask for help cleaning a 3 Dark Lord spawn, raven pilot and me go to belt. While I slowly chewed one with my drones, the raven guy obliterated the other two with 3 volleys to each Glad I didn't start cross-training raven right there --- "I live in Los Angeles, where driving is non-consensual pvp" - Arric Rohr
Rystan Wildstar Caldari Deep Core Mineral Extraction	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:22:00 - [47] I ran massive attack just now in my Golem. No difference at all. I use regular Wraths, no target painter or AB. Just a tank, 3 BCS 2, and 4 Arbelest Cruise Launchers. I don't know what my Golem's speed was pre-patch but it moves at 125m/s now. I aggro everything and release my T2 Hammers and don't even pay attention to them. They go from target to target easily killing them. BC still die in 2 Volleys and Frigs 50km out still die in 1 or 2 volleys. I also did Duo of Death and once again, no difference. My Hammers killed the Spider Drones in practically the same time as pre-patch. The only thing I noticed were BS coming straight at me as I sat there motionless took less damage. Not being a simpleton I hit my orbit button and started moving so they were not coming in a straight line at me. Problem solved. I'd probably do better if I bothered to use T2 missiles or Torps. As it is now, I blow thru missions fast enough that using more expensive ammo is irrelevant to me. Seems to me that if people really are having problems with missions using cruise missiles, it's a skills problem.
Opertone Caldari SIEGE. United Legion	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:26:00 - [48] Edited by: Opertone on 12/11/2008 20:26:17 i support the original poster, the caldari race has been seriously weakened, the missile based ships are twice weaker, non missile based ships with missile hardpoints are even worse now.
Mistress Evita Caldari Booze and Hookers	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:27:00 - [49] Originally by: Zeko Rena Nighthawk And it looks like a Ferox. What's not to like?
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Product Number 3	Posted - 2008.11.12 20:31:00 - [50] Originally by: Chlamydia Blunderbuss I'm Caldari, my Battleship is working absolutely fine thank you very much. Good job CCP, missiles are finally fixed "fixed"- read: neutered. Not sure what you're playing, or how much you sacrificed your survivability to make it work fine. Unless of course your version of fine is different than everyone elses, because I sure as hell can't get my battleship to work fine.

Innui	Posted - 2008.11.12 21:01:00 - [51] I wouldn't say unplayable, just the balance is out of whack, not purely from a missle DPS point of view alone. I tested my drake, sans BCS, with kinetic heavy missiles against a single guristas BS ship type, 119 per missile on shields, then warped off, got in the raven (CN BCS) and returned to try with wrath cruise missiles. Think it was about 140-144 per hit, with one less launcher too. Drones I'm not really noticing any real difference with, they take elite frigs down a fraction slower than usual, regular frigs seem to blow up as fast as always. My main concern is tweaking caldari ships to include the use of a painter/web, shield tanking is pretty tight, there's little room for anything else once you're cap stable, although a CNR with a gisti type x-large shield booster would be perfect since it found drop a cap recharger II and fit a target painter :p I feel happy enough about the change with missiles and smaller/faster targets but a tad annoyed that an hour long mission is probably going to take me an hour and a half and without a break/change I'm going to claw my eyes out especially when I take into account that apart from being limited to light drones, a drake is actually very close in terms of DPS with a bog standard raven and can fit a target painter as well! <Disclaimer: I am a still a bit of a noob after 4 months of playing but at least I went and tried out the difference myself :p>
rValdez5987 Amarr 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2008.11.12 21:04:00 - [52] I just used a scorpion geddon combo in a mission last night. It was BETTER then before overall. Then again im using full T2 gear with high sp so meh.
Scagga Laebetrovo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.11.12 21:09:00 - [53] Well see, if missiles have suddenly become so bad, I understand that caldari can use hybrid weapons-based ships as well. Scagga is running for the CSM, see his campaign thread to know of his standpoints!
RedSplat Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2008.11.12 21:09:00 - [54] Abrupt or Pie
Minny Sky	Posted - 2008.11.12 21:18:00 - [55] lul! but hey you wanted nano nerf carebear! blbhaha loololol
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:03:00 - [56] Originally by: Framerunner Since the new patch the Caldari is a ****ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Caldari is no longer useful... No PVP no Missions... One more reason to quit from eve online.... Blatant exaggeration and lies. Feel free to quit though. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
rofflesausage	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:14:00 - [57] Originally by: Gorefacer Originally by: Framerunner Since the new patch the Caldari is a ****ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Blatant exaggeration and lies. To be fair to the guy, it's not lies. Exaggeration? not really either - standard Raven speed now hovers around 100m/s depending on skill. Drones and missiles are considerably nerfed. ....
Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:16:00 - [58] STFU with the anti-whining bull****... they really hit the caldari hard with this nerf.. so everyone says use a target painter... a mid slot.. caldari shield tank remember?
Piper Halliwell Minmatar Phantom Squad Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:20:00 - [59] Edited by: Piper Halliwell on 12/11/2008 22:24:05 One day you carebears will realize that you whining has repercussions. You whined about the pirates in low sec and what happened, now you get blobbed so they can tank the guns and still kill you. You whined about warping to 15 and getting ganked, now they wait for you to jump to the high sec side and gank you with more numbers. YOU cause this, YOU are responsible. Now take your medicine and STFU. Learn how to play the game. No more can you sleep through your missions with minimal skills trained. I do have a mission running alt, but I have the skills to fly the ships I am in and have noticed little to no change. Finally CCP has made it to where you have to (sit down for this one) HAVE SKILLS TO FLY SHIPS. Have fun with your nano nerf....idiots! Originally by: Demonic Sentiment STFU with the anti-whining bull****... they really hit the caldari hard with this nerf.. so everyone says use a target painter... a mid slot.. caldari shield tank remember? Tried flying Minmatar who base over half their ships on surviving on speed since nothing else is a viable option? Didn't thinks so! You wanna talk about hard hit talk to a Matari pilot. Caldari Theme Song -------------------- You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:21:00 - [60] It is silly when a BC performs better then a BS. So the BS has no role left anymore :/

Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:22:00 - [61] Originally by: KhaniKirai It is silly when a BC performs better then a BS. So the BS has no role left anymore :/ i guees a raven can still hit a carrier... mabey : P
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:25:00 - [62] Um...no. My Nighthawk is at least as good as it ever was. My CNR is a bit gimped but there's an obvious solution to that. Golem is probably unchanged. So the only problems I see are for those pilots that are incapable or unwilling to change. Welcome to Eve. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:29:00 - [63] Edited by: Demonic Sentiment on 12/11/2008 22:28:43 Originally by: Andrue Um...no. My Nighthawk is at least as good as it ever was. My CNR is a bit gimped but there's an obvious solution to that. Golem is probably unchanged. So the only problems I see are for those pilots that are incapable or unwilling to change. Welcome to Eve. guess u missed the post were the guy hit for 30 dmg with his golem
Lone Hitman	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:30:00 - [64] Originally by: Andrue Um...no. My Nighthawk is at least as good as it ever was. My CNR is a bit gimped but there's an obvious solution to that. Golem is probably unchanged. Golems have changed I'm afraid... for the worse. So badly, that I'm considering selling mine.
EnslaverOfMinmatar Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:35:00 - [65] Mission Impossible 4: Tom Cruise-Missile launcher ahahahahaha see wut I did thar? uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ
0vermind	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:38:00 - [66] enjoy the nanonerf
Tom Perrish Mystic Lion Hearts Sev3rance	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:38:00 - [67] Originally by: Malcanis THE SKY IS FALLING! Hint: I'm ratting in my cerb right now and it's fine. QFT, doing the same in my cerb
Ghostwarden	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:43:00 - [68] Hell, I never liked the Raven anyway....always thought it was a piece of sh*t (Even went back and shored up a bunch of skills and retried it). Been using a Nighthawk for almost a year now and I will not look back. Ghost
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:47:00 - [69] Originally by: Tom Perrish Originally by: Malcanis THE SKY IS FALLING! Hint: I'm ratting in my cerb right now and it's fine. QFT, doing the same in my cerb Exactly, thats the problem now. Raven has no more use, its cheaper to use hac or bc and use t2 heavy assault or heavy missiles to rat with. Why spent extra isk for a bigger target with less resist, with bonusses on weapon systems, that are no good against their own size and 1 size smaller? I dont see the use of a raven anymore. People say fit a target painter. Last time i checked these t2 things have like 30km optimal with 60km fall off or something. Bit silly if you were sniping with a raven before.
Mara Rinn Minmatar	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:48:00 - [70] I had a ball of a time last night running level 4s with my Drake. I had a friend along in a Hyperion blaster boat. No complaints from me!

Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:56:00 - [71] damnit, i JUST bought a pvp cnr before the patch, fool on me tbh :(
Terror Rising Death Of Fallen Angels	Posted - 2008.11.12 22:57:00 - [72] My alt's 7bn isk fitted Golem is fine after the patch... what are you all whining about anyway?
kworld modro	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:06:00 - [73] Edited by: kworld on 12/11/2008 23:07:02 Originally by: Ultrakorne Originally by: Nekopyat Originally by: Ultrakorne i have a 20 day character on a caracal... i cannot do mission anymore.. from easy to impossible... i tryed a quest for 6 hours... its a bug, obviously. i ll wait until they fix, i cannot do missions now.. this is not a nerf, this is unplayable. Go back to L1 missions till you have more SP? Try hybrid turrets instead? Maybe the erra of the 4 week character in a raven sleeping through L4s is finally coming to an end. the problem is i need 12-14 light missile to kill a frigate... and L1 quests are full.. yes of course i can go back to an ibis and redo the tutorial, why not? yes the solution is using hybrit turrets.. but this is what we are talking about. missile are useless and if u say to use turrets to do L1-2 missions you get the point Me thinks the chinese are ****ed right now and you other people who happily macro rat in 0.0.... finally all the races are pretty much getting even.
Davik Rendar Open All Hours	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:06:00 - [74] Originally by: Ultrakorne full of frigate rats :) i dont know if cruise do more damage to small targets, i can tell for sure that light missiles and even rockets(they suppose to be intended for small targets) do 1/4 damage they should (i think because of the explosion velocity) rockets have 80m/s explosion velocity frigate rats 400~ I have no idea what your whining about, I had no problems bbq'ing some frigs with my rocket fitted Vengeance earlier today
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:08:00 - [75] I'm liking it actually. I can hit frigates for useful amounts of damage, even when they're zooming around. Not _ownage_ levels of damage, but no longer is an inty immune to heavy missiles. I like this. -- 249km locking?
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:23:00 - [76] Originally by: rofflesausage Originally by: Gorefacer Originally by: Framerunner Since the new patch the Caldari is a **ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Blatant exaggeration and lies. To be fair to the guy, it's not lies. Exaggeration? not really either - standard Raven speed now hovers around 100m/s depending on skill. Drones and missiles are considerably nerfed. .... Caldari isn't a "crashed" race. There's one lie right there. Ok maybe he's just ignorant and believes the garbage he says. I'll give him that much benefit of the doubt. You left out the other half of his quote as well, mostly where my comment was targeted. Originally by:** Framerunner Caldari is no longer useful... No PVP no Missions... "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:28:00 - [77] Originally by: Bren Kasir Nighthawk FTW tbh imo, Drop a target painter on it and utter pwnage awaits :-) I love the pun! :) - -
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:31:00 - [78] Originally by: Demonic Sentiment STFU with the anti-whining bull****... they really hit the caldari hard with this nerf.. so everyone says use a target painter... a mid slot.. caldari shield tank remember? Sorry as an only Caldari specced pilot and having tried my Raven post nerf I have no sympathy for fellow Caldari pilots. I apologize I interrupted your complaining though - I'll leave you to it in peace. My Raven works just fine for me. And even if it didn't I have Cerb/Falcon/Onyx/Basilisk/Kitsune/etc. to fall back on. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:35:00 - [79] Originally by: Gorefacer Originally by: Demonic Sentiment STFU with the anti-whining bull****... they really hit the caldari hard with this nerf.. so everyone says use a target painter... a mid slot.. caldari shield tank remember? Sorry as an only Caldari specced pilot and having tried my Raven post nerf I have no sympathy for fellow Caldari pilots. I apologize I interrupted your complaining though - I'll leave you to it in peace. My Raven works just fine for me. And even if it didn't I have Cerb/Falcon/Onyx/Basilisk/Kitsune/etc. to fall back on. mind shareing your setup : P have u fitted a target painter ?
Zi'a Baptism oF Fire	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:39:00 - [80] meh, drop a bit of tank on bs's for that target painter .. you just have to be active in your missions now and like all others my cerb is still fun

Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:41:00 - [81] Originally by: Zi'a meh, drop a bit of tank on bs's for that target painter .. you just have to be active in your missions now and like all others my cerb is still fun i guys droping a shield amp isnt gonna hurt to bad lol : P
Tobin Shalim Vulcan Foundry OPUS Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:42:00 - [82] Originally by: KhaniKirai It is silly when a BC performs better then a BS. So the BS has no role left anymore :/ quotin' dis for truth ----- Originally by: Haakkon I feel a great deal of patriotism at being a part of Goonswarm. We've accomplished great things... we're just mainly jerks about it
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:46:00 - [83] Edited by: Zeba on 12/11/2008 23:46:49 Originally by: rValdez5987 I just used a scorpion geddon combo in a mission last night. It was BETTER then before overall. Then again im using full T2 gear with high sp so meh. And this is where the whinging is coming from: People who tossed off a few missile skills and hopped in a level 2 raven to run missions are now feeling how turret users have had it for ages. Got sp? inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Killer Kelly The Social Club	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:49:00 - [84] Originally by: Meister75th Originally by: Framerunner Since the new patch the Caldari is a **ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Caldari is no longer useful... No PVP no Missions... One more reason to quit from eve online.... so gtfo outta the raven and fly a drake like I do... the drake now most definately has the better tank.. and more consistant dps.. and probably as much as the raven... plus it can only use light drones so no worries about drones that cant hit everything! well looky here the BC is now better than the BS.. so whaddya do? Get in the mother***** BC... if not please send all your isk to me ;) OOH OOH DOES THE DRAKE STILL WORK?! I just finished Battlecruisers V and IT BETTER BE WORTH SOMETHING GODDAMMIT
Blastil	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:49:00 - [85] My Ewar Blackbird that I skilled up for still jams a BS, so I'm pretty damn happy.
Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:53:00 - [86] Originally by: Blastil My Ewar Blackbird that I skilled up for still jams a BS, so I'm pretty damn happy. so umm.. when nobody flies bs's anymore? what was the point : P
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:55:00 - [87] Originally by: Demonic Sentiment Originally by: Blastil My Ewar Blackbird that I skilled up for still jams a BS, so I'm pretty damn happy. so umm.. when nobody flies bs's anymore? what was the point : P Why won't people fly bs anymore? inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:56:00 - [88] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Demonic Sentiment Originally by: Blastil My Ewar Blackbird that I skilled up for still jams a BS, so I'm pretty damn happy. so umm.. when nobody flies bs's anymore? what was the point : P Why won't people fly bs anymore? cause they are slow as ****...
Discrodia Gallente Independent Miners Guild	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:56:00 - [89] QUITCH YO WHINING. You choose the bad race, now deal with it. _______________ I mine rocks. Big rocks. :D
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:58:00 - [90] Originally by: Demonic Sentiment Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Demonic Sentiment Originally by: Blastil My Ewar Blackbird that I skilled up for still jams a BS, so I'm pretty damn happy. so umm.. when nobody flies bs's anymore? what was the point : P Why won't people fly bs anymore? cause they are slow as ****... LOL you fail EVE hard, and i mean SERIOUSLY hard. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'

Phony v2 Caldari Heavens Gate Consortium	Posted - 2008.11.12 23:58:00 - [91] wrong, Im very happy with this patch finally my nighthawk is not the only option for missions out of ships i fly. Now I can use my absolution which is actually fun to fly. ______________________________________________ Save a flame, post with your main!
Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:05:00 - [92] Originally by: Blastil My Ewar Blackbird that I skilled up for still jams a BS, so I'm pretty damn happy. so umm.. when nobody flies bs's anymore? what was the point : P Why won't people fly bs anymore? cause they are slow as ****... LOL you fail EVE hard, and i mean SERIOUSLY hard. thxs : )
Blastil	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:05:00 - [93] Originally by: Demonic Sentiment Originally by: Blastil My Ewar Blackbird that I skilled up for still jams a BS, so I'm pretty damn happy. so umm.. when nobody flies bs's anymore? what was the point : P The point is that not only can it jam a BS, but it can jam HAC's, Cruisers, frigates, AF, Ceptors, barges, Indies, logistics, BC, Cov ops, Recons, stealth bombers, And your mum. But since the BS/Caldari/Nano nerf is OBVIOUSLY the end of the ****ing world, cue the drama: OH NOES!!!11!ELEVENTYONE!!! ALL CALDARI SHIPS ARE USELESS AND THE 15 DAYS IT TOOK TO CROSSTRAIN ARE WASTED! BAAAAAAAWWWW!
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:07:00 - [94] CAN I HAVE YOUR STUFF? SKUNK Originally by: CCP Navigator People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
Lone Hitman	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:09:00 - [95] Originally by: Blastil OH NOES!!!11!ELEVENTYONE!!! ALL CALDARI SHIPS ARE USELESS AND THE 15 DAYS IT TOOK TO CROSSTRAIN ARE WASTED! BAAAAAAAWWWW! More like 15 months to get good missile & Marauder skills wasted.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:13:00 - [96] Originally by: Lone Hitman Originally by: Blastil OH NOES!!!11!ELEVENTYONE!!! ALL CALDARI SHIPS ARE USELESS AND THE 15 DAYS IT TOOK TO CROSSTRAIN ARE WASTED! BAAAAAAAWWWW! More like 15 months to get good missile & Marauder skills wasted. [dev]Golem was totally overpowered and is now in line with the other Marauders.[/dev] except for the Vaygur, it still sucks exceptional arse inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan
Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:13:00 - [97] Originally by: Lone Hitman Originally by: Blastil OH NOES!!!11!ELEVENTYONE!!! ALL CALDARI SHIPS ARE USELESS AND THE 15 DAYS IT TOOK TO CROSSTRAIN ARE WASTED! BAAAAAAAWWWW! More like 15 months to get good missile & Marauder skills wasted. havent even been playing 15mths lol.. and no maurader here.. but for the fact i have put nearly a year of my ingame time into training things that are now completely useless... is abit.. well bulls.H.i.T
Anig Browl Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:15:00 - [98] Originally by: Demonic Sentiment mind shareing your setup : P have u fitted a target painter ? Fit 2; unlike a BCS they don't have stacking penalties. I am still rearranging my fits and trying to decide how to optimize with a smaller tank. Against some targets I am performing much better with 2 x TP + 1 x BCS than with the usual 3 x BCS. Maybe I fill low slots with more cap relays and run more active boosting, or armor repper or something, don't know yet.
Nexus Kinnon Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:15:00 - [99] just quit already
Renee Alexis Luminous Love Brewery	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:17:00 - [100] Originally by: Blastil OH NOES!!!11!ELEVENTYONE!!! ALL CALDARI SHIPS ARE USELESS! BAAAAAAAWWWW! I know, right? I totally agree with this post! _____________________________________

StainLessStealRat Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:19:00 - [101] Edited by: StainLessStealRat on 13/11/2008 00:24:34 A high slot exposion velocity MOD would be nice to help balance the differance in missiles not having a tracking Mod or a larger drone bay (not higher bandwith) so a combination of painting and web and combat drones could be stored. As it is other races BS all have a larger drone bay and have a tracking mod and from what i see traget painter has no where near the affect that a tracking computer does with hybrids. And to the you still have a falcon crowd ,the falcons ECM range is about to be very hard hit making it useless in anything but ganking gangs and falcons are useless in a ganking gang.
Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:20:00 - [102] Originally by: Anig Browl Originally by: Demonic Sentiment mind shareing your setup : P have u fitted a target painter ? Fit 2; unlike a BCS they don't have stacking penalties. I am still rearranging my fits and trying to decide how to optimize with a smaller tank. Against some targets I am performing much better with 2 x TP + 1 x BCS than with the usual 3 x BCS. Maybe I fill low slots with more cap relays and run more active boosting, or armor repper or something, don't know yet. ok cool... mabey judt fill lows with pdu2s? will increase the shield recharge and cap regen so longer active tank and stronger passive.. mabey that will make up for the dual amps
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:23:00 - [103] Edited by: Hyveres on 13/11/2008 00:24:17 Its very very playable , remember most gunnery and ship skills depend on Perception & Willpower. As caldari you will train them faster than the other races :) And tbh with the exception of angel & merc missions I have yet to notice real damagereduction from cruisers & battleships. But then I do have decent TP skills , running a lazy tank setup with 1 TP, 4 hardeners a shield booster and 4 BCU.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:51:00 - [104] Originally by: Hyveres Edited by: Hyveres on 13/11/2008 00:24:17 Its very very playable , remember most gunnery and ship skills depend on Perception & Willpower. As caldari you will train them faster than the other races :) And tbh with the exception of angel & merc missions I have yet to notice real damagereduction from cruisers & battleships. But then I do have decent TP skills , running a lazy tank setup with 1 TP, 4 hardeners a shield booster and 4 BCU. But you don't permarun a XL deadspace booster with 5 hardeners! How can you possibly do missions with that?!? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Demonic Sentiment Caldari Dissonance Corp Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:52:00 - [105] redoing the bcu bonuses is the answer lol.. lower dmg bonus and include some kind of explosion velocity bonus... nothing so large that u are single shotting frigs.. but enough that u are hitting other bs's and doing some what better against cruisers... not a bad idea.. opinions?
Turin Caldari Eternity INC.	Posted - 2008.11.13 00:53:00 - [106] I get the nerf. I dont really have an issue with it. But the balancing IS bad. Someone else made the point. And I have yet to see a valid argument against it. when a BC can do more dmg to a BS than another BS, doesnt it seem like there is something wrong there? Honestly? the DPS in my Drake is better than my DPS in my raven, against another battleship. That is clearly inequitable.
Delta Kiri Delta Innovative Tech and Cat House	Posted - 2008.11.13 01:07:00 - [107] Caldari players whine about nano-gangs in Faction Warfare. Nano-gangs nerfed with the side-effect of uber missle spewing Ravens being brought back to the effectiveness of every other PvE battleship. I see no problem here.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.13 01:11:00 - [108] Originally by: Delta Kiri Caldari players whine about nano-gangs in Faction Warfare. Nano-gangs nerfed with the side-effect of uber missle spewing Ravens being brought back to the effectiveness of every other PvE battleship. I see no problem here. Then why does the Tempest Fleet issue do close to twice the damage a cnr can put out?. Why does domi's easily outDPS ravens. Its not brought back in line , its made weaker than the ships it was once comparable with.
Caiman Graystock Comrades in Construction Anarchy.	Posted - 2008.11.13 01:39:00 - [109] WTF, these are the worst trolls ever. At worst, my missiles are doing a few less HP damage per hit, it's certainly not unplayable nor a massive increase in time. Skill the **** up and shut up.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.11.13 02:10:00 - [110] Hint: You're doing it wrong. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"

Colonel Bloodtide	Posted - 2008.11.13 02:39:00 - [111] As i said yesterday in a thread which got locked... Let The Whining Commence!! Seriously its like everyone whos moaning has been living in a box for 2 months. I pay vague attention at best to the forums and updates and even i knew that people who played on the test server reported this damage reduction to missiles ages ago. Where have you all been?? However as an amarr pilot who abhors missiles i am very happy thank you muchly
KingOzar Caldari Thorn Executor THORN Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.13 02:44:00 - [112] Lol, now you Caldari can be like every other race and use drones to kill frigs in missions. Stop complaining.
Mutabae	Posted - 2008.11.13 02:52:00 - [113] Am I too late to laugh at the unimaginative caldari whiners? No? Good! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Your easy mode is dead. Good riddance to bad game design. Adapt or go play something else.
Minny Sky	Posted - 2008.11.13 03:01:00 - [114] buhahaahahahaa lololooloololl Want to cry about nano again?? That is what you get. Go play wow now.
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.11.13 03:11:00 - [115] The cycle is complete, we are back to where we were before the HP buff. Have faith Caldari brethren, if things hold true; the Gallente should get the next buff....and then its us!!!! its only 60 or so days to cross-train amarr (bs and t2 cruisers with t2 med guns) for any char over about 10mil sp so might as well try out laz0rs while you wait for Caldari uberness to cycle! -- Originally by: CCP Oveur Just donæt forget the reach-around.
Malleer	Posted - 2008.11.13 03:20:00 - [116] Originally by: Demonic Sentiment Originally by: Lone Hitman More like 15 months to get good missile & Marauder skills wasted. havent even been playing 15mths lol.. and no maurader here.. but for the fact i have put nearly a year of my ingame time into training things that are now completely useless... is abit.. well bulls.H.i.T Your the only useless one here. There is missile ships and fittings that will allow you to do lvl4's just fine. Try to adjust your fittings and experiment or STFU and just quit already, whiner.
Celeritas 5k Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.11.13 04:07:00 - [117] missiles aren't that bad stfu gtfo adapt or die and so on - Always be Happy, Never be satisfied.
Khamal Jolstien Caldari Product Number 3	Posted - 2008.11.13 04:18:00 - [118] Originally by: Celeritas 5k missiles aren't that bad stfu gtfo adapt or die and so on Ignorant troll is ignorant. Balance is one thing, but these things are completely broken. I shouldn't have to use target painters just to hit my own ship class. It's okay, I think you are just scared that CCP knows we're right, and will fix it.
Julius Rigel House Rigel	Posted - 2008.11.13 04:19:00 - [119] Your stuff please! Scared of the events forum?
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.11.13 04:21:00 - [120] Its not the ships which are useless its the pilot flying them..... get back to the mmos you came from and stop the whining already.... yes i know ccp will lose money if you quit, but well... ccp survived when they had like 2,5k players online on sunday evenings and they will still survive if a few simple minded people just leave and hopefully never come back.. Reading all the crap after the patch just makes me feel sad that eve ever became that popular, things were much better b4 all the idiots started playing eve. AND DAMN EVE IS SO MUCH EASIER THAN IT USED TO BE BACK IN 2003. You should be happy about the way eve is today. If you would have started back in the days where I started you would have quit the game after 2 days because you would have to mine your ass off for weeks to get the ISK and skills for a cruiser...

InSession Minmatar Mafia Black Hand.	Posted - 2008.11.13 04:43:00 - [121] No more Ravens wtfowning the rats so easily. Everyone was like "haha you nano*** you're gonna suck after this patch." Now I'm killing these Raven noobs even faster. Use a Cerb to rat. And use drones in your missions to kill small stuff. Stop being so lazy and play EVE like the rest of us do and utilize everything you are given. Raven has a drone bay, use it.
Bad Messenger Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2008.11.13 04:54:00 - [122] It is nice to notice that there is no one post yet where someone says missiles are fine and can say how they are fine. Missiles are not totally broken but there is some situtations where missiles are totallu useless, like against afterburning ships no matter ship size or type of missile in use. It is only matter of time when all enemies uses all tricks to fool missiles and then caldari pvp pilot can not do much. You can try to use target painter, web , web drones and target painter drones, but there is no much slots or bonuses for those in caldari ships and even if you use those it may not help much.
haz bro Caldari Doom Guard Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.11.13 05:06:00 - [123] Edited by: haz bro on 13/11/2008 05:06:50 Edited by: haz bro on 13/11/2008 05:06:01 They actualy bogged it up lol... they did't take in account that npc BS do still unchanged speeds. CCP looked only at the player based ships...but hell i won the bet we made hehe iam one happy caldari now :D (we knew CCP would bog it up) Ohw i forgot to mention iam caldari to cheers*
Ian Luxor Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.13 08:40:00 - [124] I tried some Missions in my Torp-Golem yesterday and i only recognized that torps, even with a Target Painter are not able to kill for example a Guristas Webifier in reasonable time. So i only got problems with Frigs or Elite Frigs. The solution to that problem was deploying T2 Light Drones.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.11.13 08:44:00 - [125] Originally by: Ian Luxor I tried some Missions in my Torp-Golem yesterday and i only recognized that torps, even with a Target Painter are not able to kill for example a Guristas Webifier in reasonable time. So i only got problems with Frigs or Elite Frigs. The solution to that problem was deploying T2 Light Drones. Exactly. Just like every other damn battleship in the game needs to do, when facing small ships. The fact that the Raven has been able to use a "one size fits all" solution (and skip drone skills) has been the problem -- and the reason there are a bazillion-and-one low-skill Raven mission runners soloing lvl4s. That has now been fixed. Welcome to Eve, guys!
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core	Posted - 2008.11.13 08:50:00 - [126] get`s popcorn and soda to watch the show.. www.garia.net
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.13 08:56:00 - [127] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 13/11/2008 08:56:23 Anyone complaining about killing web-frigates or elite frigates...try tachyons That's why my drone bay has those smoking, rude talking, "Hoo-a!" shouting light drones that get the job done Also, do it "dummy" style and fit one rocket launcher My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.13 09:39:00 - [128] Originally by: Khamal Jolstien I shouldn't have to use target painters just to hit my own ship class. Good news! You don't.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.13 09:44:00 - [129] Tachs instapop frigs if you can get em at range .. take worlds collide first room as an example where you simply shoot em from extreme range so transversal is not a factor. Ofcourse once they are up close and starts orbiting there are problems but if you catch em at range turretbased battleships got no major problems blowing up frigates.
Ultrakorne	Posted - 2008.11.13 09:46:00 - [130] Originally by: Bad Messenger It is nice to notice that there is no one post yet where someone says missiles are fine and can say how they are fine. Missiles are not totally broken but there is some situtations where missiles are totallu useless, like against afterburning ships no matter ship size or type of missile in use. It is only matter of time when all enemies uses all tricks to fool missiles and then caldari pvp pilot can not do much. You can try to use target painter, web , web drones and target painter drones, but there is no much slots or bonuses for those in caldari ships and even if you use those it may not help much. that's it ... rocket and light missile SHOULD be fine with small ships... io dont know how cruiser / torpedo are now but rockets and light missile are not fine now

AlexFaith	Posted - 2008.11.13 09:50:00 - [131] Originally by: Framerunner Since the new patch the Caldari is a ****ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Caldari is no longer useful... No PVP no Missions... One more reason to quit from eve online.... whats your missile sp ?? whats your support skills?? what missions you running? what fit you got ? my cnr strolls through missions just as easy as it ever did..... couple mins and a few bits of extra ammo needed. swap the med drones out for light. whats your issue? and 100m/s? really? 100m/s jesus, something that is about 100x bigger than a shuttle is doing a 6th of the speed? outrageous isnt it i mean there ought to be a law or something quit ? please dont........
eliminator2 Gallente Fatality. Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.11.13 09:50:00 - [132] Originally by: Framerunner Since the new patch the Caldari is a ****ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Caldari is no longer useful... No PVP no Missions... One more reason to quit from eve online.... i luv reading caldari whines there the biggest whiners of all and over dramatic ^^ PVE caldari are still good for it ou claim your ship goes 100m/s my abaddon goes slower than that because i have rigs onit as well and its base speed is 101m/s without rigs so dnt complain about speed because gallente are most hit with that since we need speed for getting in range PVP: caldari are still the actually most used race for PVP because of there falcon and scorp and crow everyone uses the falcon over any of the other caldari ships before and after patch crow was second most used caldari ship for pvp before and after so dont complaiun about no more pvp and you so they ruined u bah i no more about your race and im gallente/amarr but the biggest hit race is minmatar so how about caldari stfu and let minmatar say about there problems ADAPT is your friend if not DIE is your friend
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.13 09:52:00 - [133] Edited by: Hyveres on 13/11/2008 09:55:48 Edited by: Hyveres on 13/11/2008 09:55:25 Originally by: Bad Messenger It is nice to notice that there is no one post yet where someone says missiles are fine and can say how they are fine. Missiles are not totally broken but there is some situtations where missiles are totallu useless, like against afterburning ships no matter ship size or type of missile in use. It is only matter of time when all enemies uses all tricks to fool missiles and then caldari pvp pilot can not do much. You can try to use target painter, web , web drones and target painter drones, but there is no much slots or bonuses for those in caldari ships and even if you use those it may not help much. In a decent gang with other people tackling and ewar support missiles should still do "full" damage. Once you slap several webs on a cruiser then have it dualpainted even cruise missiles will hurt it quite badly. Ofcourse being dependant on gang support in order to PvP means no soloplay for missileusers.
Ackwell Imperial Pharmacy	Posted - 2008.11.13 10:07:00 - [134] Originally by: Framerunner Since the new patch the Caldari is a ****ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Get a Rokh, laddie! Born in Caldari State Raised by Khanid Kingdom Living for Amarr Empire Dying for Imperial Pharmacy
Andrea Tesla Caldari Crazy Clone Warriors of Disaster	Posted - 2008.11.13 10:11:00 - [135] When I was testing L4 Missions last night, I was kind of concentrating... Judging by the ammount of whine, I had expected to explode and loose my Pod and my wallet, when entering a mission already. Instead I was met with pretty much low risk and same reward as before. Yes, I admit, that I am using a Nighthawk and got pretty good missile skills... Only thing I noticed is that some frigs take longer to kill than cruisers.. so what. They still do not harm me in any substantial way. I am waiting to get the "the Buzz" mission, where there is something around 90 frigs as targets. Maybe that mission will be more of a challenge now (so far it was FOF missiles ready, engage, sleep, reload, fire, sleep) AT
Le Cardinal Black Plague.	Posted - 2008.11.13 10:14:00 - [136] Cerb and Nighthawk. Enuff said really. I tested them yesterday and they still rock. I agree with alot here regarding skills. No more easyride for missilepilots. Personally i have peaked most of my missileskills and do good dmg. If your missiles dont hit properly. Learn how to use them. But there is a point with fitting TP's and webs. Caldari have to sacrifice their tank for it. Other races dont. This being said, i like the new patch (and i prefer caldariships). Back to more oldschool tanking and spanking. No more flashman ships as prepatch had. Oh and for the record to the trolls. I never mission and last time i ratted was 6 months ago ;)
AlexFaith	Posted - 2008.11.13 10:16:00 - [137] Originally by: eliminator2 Originally by: Framerunner Since the new patch the Caldari is a ****ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Caldari is no longer useful... No PVP no Missions... One more reason to quit from eve online.... i luv reading caldari whines there the biggest whiners of all and over dramatic ^^ PVE caldari are still good for it ou claim your ship goes 100m/s my abaddon goes slower than that because i have rigs onit as well and its base speed is 101m/s without rigs so dnt complain about speed because gallente are most hit with that since we need speed for getting in range PVP: caldari are still the actually most used race for PVP because of there falcon and scorp and crow everyone uses the falcon over any of the other caldari ships before and after patch crow was second most used caldari ship for pvp before and after so dont complaiun about no more pvp and you so they ruined u bah i no more about your race and im gallente/amarr but the biggest hit race is minmatar so how about caldari stfu and let minmatar say about there problems ADAPT is your friend if not DIE is your friend my mini alt wants to marry you....
Nsiah The Perfect Storm	Posted - 2008.11.13 10:41:00 - [138] I had quite some trouble with the intys on level 4 missions - what I did in the end was use my drake to kill the small stuff then switched to my ravens for the BS. (only because my skills in the drake prevented me from breaking the BS tanks). Think im gonna go back and refine my BC skills then move on to command ship training. Amarr Militia Pilot Armada Corporation
TradePirate	Posted - 2008.11.13 10:43:00 - [139] hahahaha Gotta love the "OMG MY MISSION RAVEN NO LONGER WORKS, THE SKY IS FALLING" Rage Quit threads.
Major Templar Caldari DFX Industries	Posted - 2008.11.13 10:51:00 - [140] I'm Caldari, I saw this coming, the overpowered Caldari missile issue. Pre-Patch I was flying Caracal, missiles and all, Post-Patch, I'm flying a Moa, rail guns loaded, I'm doing perfectly fine on Lvl 2 missions right now and some Lvl 3 with friends. Not that hard to make the switch between missiles and guns. Just adapt to it or stop running missions.

easylad Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:03:00 - [141] Could make a mint with all the carebear tears in here. Now you know how us nano pilots felt. Adapt or Die
Kaaii Caldari PixelJuice Design Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:07:00 - [142] I like the new missile patch Yes I fly caldari Yes I use painters and light drones killed officer just this morning with my raven, wheres the problem? I don't really get the issue here. According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:42:00 - [143] Edited by: KhaniKirai on 13/11/2008 11:42:34 Still its ridiculous that hacs and bc outperform a raven now in loads of roles. They forgot 1 thing in this patch: They should give all the missile ships bonus to ALL types of missiles. So a raven also get bonus if using heavy and heavy assault. That would make a raven still valid, but otherwise its better to buy a cheaper ship, that has more dps vs your bs sized ratting targets, that has better resist, that is faster, that get hit less easily etc. They changed the way bonusses were working on these ships long long ago and told everyone, you need to fit the weapon types against your own size. Well, that has changed, but the bonusses were not changed back. Pretty weird. Another issue, that also needs a FIX FAST: Now drones are getting basically NEEDED, when are the caldari getting a decent drone bay and bandwith? When are the eagle and cerberus getting also drone space?
Schalac Caldari Apocalypse Reign	Posted - 2008.11.13 11:46:00 - [144] Originally by: Framerunner Since the new patch the Caldari is a ****ing crashed race... My raven Speed is now only 100 m/s, Missile damage is gone down too.... Drones are shooting like kids... Caldari is no longer useful... No PVP no Missions... One more reason to quit from eve online.... Fortunately for Caldari, station spinning still works the same as it did in beta.
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:02:00 - [145] "Fit 2 (TPs); unlike a BCS they don't have stacking penalties. I am still rearranging my fits and trying to decide how to optimize with a smaller tank." People keep spewing this BS, TP's are subject to stacking penalties. People who tell you differently lie. /Riv
ekalami	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:18:00 - [146] Originally by: KhaniKirai They forgot 1 thing in this patch: They should give all the missile ships bonus to ALL types of missiles. So a raven also get bonus if using heavy and heavy assault. Thats fine as long as all gunnery ships get bonus to all gun sizes too. Or do you think that caldari should have an advantage over everyone else? I for one would love a dominix with a full rack of bonused heavy (cruiser size) neutron blasters and awesome tank
Lorna Loot Caldari Maximum Yarrage	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:23:00 - [147] AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA That's for my nano's ****tards ----------
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:26:00 - [148] Originally by: KhaniKirai They forgot 1 thing in this patch: They should give all the missile ships bonus to ALL types of missiles. So a raven also get bonus if using heavy and heavy assault. WTB gun using ship with a bonus on all the guns sizes. Or even 2 guns sizes, as some Caldari missile ships as with the Heavy/assault launcher bonus.
a3hayman	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:33:00 - [149] i am true caldari its all i fly and after readign i thought i better try a mission as have not since the patch and have not tried my missiles yet,well i see no difference my raven is set up the same and does the same job as it did before,i always used drones to kill frigs and soem cruisers cus its free(tight i know) and saves me missiles,so i dont see what eveyr one is moaning on about.I have 9 mill sp in missiles so just skill up ppl and there is no diff imho
Valandria Koshun Caldari Atum Nocturnem	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:40:00 - [150] Originally by: KhaniKirai It is silly when a BC performs better then a BS. So the BS has no role left anymore :/ thats the point im really mad about an cnr worth 10times a drake is now quite a joke i dont think that this is intendet

Serax eXceeded DeStInY.	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:47:00 - [151] 'omg nerf nanos!' 'WTF you nerfed my overpowered **** too?!?!' AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA
Azeryn	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:48:00 - [152] Funny how those ppl saying "easy, switch from missiles to turrets" are the same who, when told "use missiles instead of turrets", whould wield their raighteus fire as both a weapon and a shield and yell "Why should I cross-train into a different weapon skill tree? I want to use turrets, not missiles, dammit!!!". And those thinking that raven pilots spent their time slinging cruise missiles or even torps at orbiting frigates are just raving mad: frigates would require more time to kill than a BS. Even a flight of 3 light tech 1 drones (less than a day required to skill up to) of the wrong dmg type would kill an orbiting frigate faster than multiple barrages of cruise missiles on steroids. I am really happy to have given up on missioning a week ago to join a pvp corp in 0.0, looks like I milked every last drop from missions before the catastrophe
Sal 'acho	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:52:00 - [153] Originally by: Le Cardinal Cerb and Nighthawk. Enuff said really. I tested them yesterday and they still rock. I agree with alot here regarding skills. No more easyride for missilepilots. Personally i have peaked most of my missileskills and do good dmg. If your missiles dont hit properly. Learn how to use them. ^^ This Especially as I make them - Can't wait for the price to start rising
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2008.11.13 12:57:00 - [154] Actually, the prises are, at least for the Nighthawk, dropping. Seems like everybody now tries to sell them.
Jim Hazard	Posted - 2008.11.13 13:09:00 - [155] Originally by: Azeryn Funny how those ppl saying "easy, switch from missiles to turrets" are the same who, when told "use missiles instead of turrets", whould wield their raighteus fire as both a weapon and a shield and yell "Why should I cross-train into a different weapon skill tree? I want to use turrets, not missiles, dammit!!!". And those thinking that raven pilots spent their time slinging cruise missiles or even torps at orbiting frigates are just raving mad: frigates would require more time to kill than a BS. Even a flight of 3 light tech 1 drones (less than a day required to skill up to) of the wrong dmg type would kill an orbiting frigate faster than multiple barrages of cruise missiles on steroids. I am really happy to have given up on missioning a week ago to join a pvp corp in 0.0, looks like I milked every last drop from missions before the catastrophe and thats why most 0.0 alliances suck.. they recruit everyone....
Sal 'acho	Posted - 2008.11.13 13:10:00 - [156] Originally by: Karl Luckner Actually, the prises are, at least for the Nighthawk, dropping. Seems like everybody now tries to sell them. They have been for a while now - give it a couple of weeks and I reckon they'll start to rise
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.13 13:11:00 - [157] Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 13/11/2008 13:11:31 Originally by: Azeryn Funny how those ppl saying "easy, switch from missiles to turrets" are the same who, when told "use missiles instead of turrets", whould wield their raighteus fire as both a weapon and a shield and yell "Why should I cross-train into a different weapon skill tree? I want to use turrets, not missiles, dammit!!!". Ask any (edit: any smarter then a tadpole)amarr and they'll tell you they've trained drones, missiles and guns You need to suck to learn adaptation! My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Jelek Coro Caldari Art of War Exalted.	Posted - 2008.11.13 13:18:00 - [158] Originally by: Valandria Koshun Originally by: KhaniKirai It is silly when a BC performs better then a BS. So the BS has no role left anymore :/ thats the point im really mad about an cnr worth 10times a drake is now quite a joke i dont think that this is intendet The CNR is still capable. Try to fit it properly. Then that would require thought and investing in correct skills instead of using a cookie cutter approach. Far easier to go cry about it on the forums eh? Wah wah wah wah wah wah!! I bet you never went on SISI either? Cry more.
TeaDaze Sablenacht	Posted - 2008.11.13 13:43:00 - [159] Originally by: Jelek Coro The CNR is still capable. Try to fit it properly. Then that would require thought and investing in correct skills instead of using a cookie cutter approach. Far easier to go cry about it on the forums eh? This! I really don't understand the level of whine over this from a PvE point of view. I have an alt in a CNR (decent skills, T2 / Caldari navy tank and cruise launchers) and he ripped through L4 guristas extra last night with no noticeable issues. My main flies matari and I've not done L4s with them since the patch (so can only go on previous experience). They have never been able to hit frigs close in with BS guns (that is 0 damage as opposed to missiles which actually do some) so this is just bringing the raven into line. Train drone skills and T2 hammerheads will take the frigs out pretty fast. As far as PvE goes, the Cnr still blows the maelstrom away on dps, still hits frigs and cruisers, still pwns BC and BS. Might take an extra volley here or there but it is far from being gimped or unplayable. I've made 0 changes to the setup since before QR and was sitting still because I wanted to see if anything had changed. I don't Pvp much with caldari, but if you are complaining that a solo raven can't kill the tackler frigs then you are in line with any other BS not setup to deal with them. Hint - heavy neuts. If you are missing key missile skills then perhaps that is the problem and maybe you are not ready for a BS yet...
waruiushiro	Posted - 2008.11.13 15:07:00 - [160] Originally by: Azeryn Funny how those ppl saying "easy, switch from missiles to turrets" are the same who, when told "use missiles instead of turrets", whould wield their raighteus fire as both a weapon and a shield and yell "Why should I cross-train into a different weapon skill tree? I want to use turrets, not missiles, dammit!!!". Hi, hello, Minmatar here. Let me list the skills that my brothers and sisters and I must train to do ANYTHING and usually without complaining (unless there's Caldaris crying somewhere, then we gotta say something): Drones Shield Tanking Armour Tanking Missiles Speed Turrets What Caldari players had to previously train to do level 4 missions: Missiles Away-From-Keyboard V (trains itself, really) ... So yeah. It's not uncommon for Minmatar to say, "oh, this ship will be good. I'll just train all the related skills for it, and in a couple months, I can fly it." These days, I'm seeing a lot of Caldari say, "OMGZORS!!!1 I HAVE TO TRAIN A SKILL OTHER THAN MISSILES OMGWTFRAGEQUIT!!!!!!!!11" For me, I've just completed a training course for drones that would make most Gallente players wince. My turrets skills still need a massive boost, my missile skills are always in need of more days, more days... for missions I had to train shield tanking but all the PvP I do is with armour tanking, so that skill is nowhere near optimal. And on and on. Basically what I'm getting at here is that people who can't deal with their Raven not killing frigates with weapons NEVER intended for killing frigates fail at EVE and life in general. Know what happens when you shoot at a frigate with large artillery? 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely That's not nerfed damage, IT'S NO DAMAGE. So, we use drones only, or get creative and find ways to reduce transversal. Your race has turrets to, so really you shouldn't complain about training them. Maybe it'll be about the Ferox rather than the Drake/Raven combo that must be just so incredibly boring.

Squably Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.11.13 15:21:00 - [161] Well its so easy, Ppl complaining about their ravens being **** etc etc just should learn how to fit a ship, all they probably know is a standard fit posted on some forum. I have been doing plexes in my Raven and it still rocks, no it does not take longer, yes i need about 5% more ammo but hell who cares. Also strop training FOTM junk to V, go train stuff you WANT to do not what everyone else does. Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:19:00 - [162] Originally by: Jelek Coro Originally by: Valandria Koshun Originally by: KhaniKirai It is silly when a BC performs better then a BS. So the BS has no role left anymore :/ thats the point im really mad about an cnr worth 10times a drake is now quite a joke i dont think that this is intendet The CNR is still capable. Try to fit it properly. Then that would require thought and investing in correct skills instead of using a cookie cutter approach. Far easier to go cry about it on the forums eh? Wah wah wah wah wah wah!! I bet you never went on SISI either? Cry more. 65+ mil sp here, yes the BC is better to fit and performs in a lot of roles now better then the raven. I suggest you work a bit more on your skills as well and try out more types of ships and fittings. There are on this moment some serious balance problems with missiles and shiptypes, that cant be fixed by things: train this or that anymore. I advise most new people to pick minmatar these days or amarr and if they really want to get into drones, to use gallente. Caldari still got ewar, but thats it. Their industrials are worse then other races. Their transporters are worse then other races. Their dronebays stink, IF the ship even has them. You would think the drone bays would have been improved a bit, when the t2 drones came into the game, but nope. Railsguns have nice range, but so do lasers and projectiles nowadays. Shield tanking was good, but with the reduction on the explosive resist in last big patch, the other races became better overall. Caldari ships are still like blocks of concrete, when it comes to turning and get in warp. And why do they have that penalty, because there is not a single advantage left to it? Maybe you train some more skills and look deeper in what goes on and what has been changed the last 4 years and add it all together. Luckily I got well trained alts and are bit crosstrained myself, so i got enough options to fly other races. But this missile nerf just is too much and not any new skill or module to overcome the problems. Why for example are their no modules that lower explosion radius or affect that dumb damage reduction factor? Why dont caldari have skill bonus on missiles for more types of launchers? Why are there no launcher versions of cruise launchers, that are a socalled module to hit smaller stuff, but do less damage? Turrets have multiple versions for each small,medium, large class? Example: dual 250mm rail guns, things like that? Some people bring up: but turrets need to fit other types of weapons to hit small stuff nearby!! Yeah, thats why they fit often smart bombs. The only difference is, a missile ship is losing his own dps when using such modules, but a turret user has no trouble with his own smartbomb. So, that excuse is not even valid.... Then again, I will adapt, but this time, it wont be changing setup, since that has barely any impact, but it will the only efficient adapting, invest in another race weapon system now, instead of specializing further in caldari stuff. Some people say: use a target painter.... Those people I guess have never trained target painting skills or looked on the stats, but 30-40km optimal with 60-70km falloff is not enough, if you are firing cruise missiles over longer range. This option would be only valid, if the target painter had WAY more range as well.
Harrii Karrie	Posted - 2008.11.13 23:56:00 - [163] Some people say: use a target painter.... Those people I guess have never trained target painting skills or looked on the stats, but 30-40km optimal with 60-70km falloff is not enough, if you are firing cruise missiles over longer range. This option would be only valid, if the target painter had WAY more range as well. you paint a target at 100km plus opt + falloff and thats not enougth, Try being in a rail, artiy, or beam laser equipped ship, dammped down to about 10 km,s. at least you can still do damage using fof,s I actually think blaster boats may well be the biggest loosers when things settle down, torp ravens may well be able to kill em now before a blastethon gets in range. hence the raven speed drop. Seeems its the caldari flyers who are crying loudest, yet the gallente may be the biggest loosers.
Hyveres Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.14 00:15:00 - [164] Afaik maxed out TP skills = 45 km optimal , 90 km falloff. Dont see the problem.
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.11.14 11:20:00 - [165] Originally by: Harrii Karrie Some people say: use a target painter.... Those people I guess have never trained target painting skills or looked on the stats, but 30-40km optimal with 60-70km falloff is not enough, if you are firing cruise missiles over longer range. This option would be only valid, if the target painter had WAY more range as well. you paint a target at 100km plus opt + falloff and thats not enougth, Try being in a rail, artiy, or beam laser equipped ship, dammped down to about 10 km,s. at least you can still do damage using fof,s I actually think blaster boats may well be the biggest loosers when things settle down, torp ravens may well be able to kill em now before a blastethon gets in range. hence the raven speed drop. Seeems its the caldari flyers who are crying loudest, yet the gallente may be the biggest loosers. Fire FOF??? and hit your own alliance mates? Damped down? Missile boats also suffer from that and several types of launchers dont have fof. You do realize how falloff and optimal work on target painters? Its barely effective over the optimal, so it doesnt fit with cruise missiles. They are only effective with short range ships, like torps and blasters.
Killer Gandry Caldari Red Horizon Inc	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:01:00 - [166] Edited by: Killer Gandry on 14/11/2008 12:01:15 Well I don't see a problem, merely a challenge to get another setup working. I feel for those who can't seem to get out of their rusted habbits of warping in, target and spam cruisemissiles till all is dead. If you really are against using a targetpainter you might want to look into some droneskills, throw in a nice mix of targetpainting drones along with some webbing drones, use the nice module in high for more range on drones and voila, no need to sacrifice a midslot. Yes it requires some training, but atleast you wont break down on your tank. Next to that I don't see the need of the flaming that people throw back and forth. Not only in this thread but in virtually any thread. It's very obvious we tend to forget one major thing here and that is that people log in to have fun in the game. Be it PvE, PvP, mining, researching, production and so on. I have done my share of PvP in the passt and will go back to it in the future again, but for now I do PvE. Does that make me less of a player compared to the hardcore PvP players? I think not. There is no dark side and no light side, neither is there a right and a wrong side, there are merely different types of gamestyle. And badly enough each side seems to mainly think they are right and can only express it by overyelling eachother's opinions with flames and namecalling. For your mutual information: When entering an arguement, yelling doesn't make you right, it only weakens your position. A bit of sarcasm is fine but people tend to forget there are things as borders and behaviour when it comes to posting on the internet. They can hide behind a big wall of annonimity which, in my opinion, makes them more a coward then someone who can really discuss and point out his idea's and suggestions. Moral degradations are easy accepted and even adapted into by others because a lot of times it's easier to just follow the masses you allready hang out with then stippulating your own opinions in a normal manner. I read a lot "Adapt" "Learn to play" and not even going to list the unneeded namecallings I have watched and read for several years now. But what if I don't want to adapt and get into a line with people who think common normal behaviour isn't needed in social interaction? I am sorry for the parent of those players who think any type of behaviour is acceptable because it's merely a MMO, and for those with own children I feel sorry because of what they actually teach their children by behaving like this in a gameforum and in gamechats. The minute you start accepting anti social behaviour as part of any socidty, be it in real life or in any game where communication is a vital part of the game and you just say adapt to it then you loose an important part of what should set us apart from hooligans. You can shoot someone without behaving like a raving lunatic and you can loose a ship to someone without going into a huge fit and insult the player who just podkilled you. It's a game Ladies and Gentelmen, and in every game you have winners and losers and just people who participate to enjoy. So don't only be a sportive loser, try to be a sportive winner aswell. Thank you for taking your time to read through this wall of text. And have a nice time ingame in whatever your goals are.
DrefsabZN Caldari Butterfly Effect Corp.	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:26:00 - [167] WAWAWAWAWAWAWA cry more noob's, the tears of my Caldari brethren is like music to my ears. Im a Caldari pilot, I fly a CNR, I use missiles and I do lvl 4's with ease. Did about 20 last night nice and easy, infact the hardest thing was traveling from one gate to another. My cruise were popping battleships so quick, cruisers even quicker. My drones (yes drones I know shock horror) were tearing frigs to shrews. Once the Battleships and cruiser's were down I launched my missiles at the frigs and they went down easy enough. My corp has several caldari pilots all doing lvl 4's easy enough. Some are having to put a little more work into their supporting skills but thats to be expected, everyone else has to do that so its damned right Caldari do to :). As for pvp not tried it recently but well caldari sucked at pvp before (well part from EW) so if thats still the case then its no change there. Though I doubt its all that bad just like missions arnt really that bad.
Ackwell Imperial Pharmacy	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:47:00 - [168] Not to mention Caldari really does have pretty good hybrid platforms. Those have just been overpowered before by missile ships. I love how two my all time favorite ships, Ferox and Rokh are now actually more viable choice for a Caldari pilot. Born in Caldari State Raised by Khanid Kingdom Living for Amarr Empire Dying for Imperial Pharmacy
Leonardo Sabrioski Caldari Infernal Doom House of Mercury	Posted - 2008.11.14 12:54:00 - [169] Use an AB Don't use fricking cruise/torps on cruisers or frigs Use Tech 2 light drones. Im still using Caldari. Its actually way more effective now than it was before. So stop whining you fricking 3 million sper misison runner. Go complain somewhere else. ----------------------------------------------
Hecate Shaw Caldari The Green Machine Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.11.14 13:03:00 - [170] Originally by: KhaniKirai Originally by: Tom Perrish Originally by: Malcanis THE SKY IS FALLING! Hint: I'm ratting in my cerb right now and it's fine. QFT, doing the same in my cerb Exactly, thats the problem now. Raven has no more use, its cheaper to use hac or bc and use t2 heavy assault or heavy missiles to rat with. Why spent extra isk for a bigger target with less resist, with bonusses on weapon systems, that are no good against their own size and 1 size smaller? I dont see the use of a raven anymore. People say fit a target painter. Last time i checked these t2 things have like 30km optimal with 60km fall off or something. Bit silly if you were sniping with a raven before. I've tried flying my Raven since the patch, and while I noticed a difference, I don't think it was at all unusable. The cruise missiles worked quite well on BS's, and with my character's moderately good missile skills they even took out the BC's and cruisers efficiently enough. I definitely felt the sting from the frigs, but a few drones made them pop readily enough, and my drone skills are not what one might call "stellar". I did notice that standard missiles seem much weaker against frigs than they used to be. I must confess to a bit of confusion on that score, since they are the "right size" for frigs. Anyone know if CCP meant for that to happen?

Killer Gandry Caldari Red Horizon Inc	Posted - 2008.11.14 13:43:00 - [171] Originally by: DrefsabZN WAWAWAWAWAWAWA cry more noob's, the tears of my Caldari brethren is like music to my ears. This is a fine example of someone who thinks he makes himself better by talking other people down. Just for your information, I have no problems with lvl 4 missions or lvl 5's. But calling someone a n00b just proves you still have a lot to learn about normal behaviour. Ow and by the way, the one who actually wastes missiles in frigates while flying a BS shouldn't cry wolf too often.
Warspawn	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:10:00 - [172] Edited by: Warspawn on 14/11/2008 14:14:46 Edited by: Warspawn on 14/11/2008 14:12:03 Originally by: waruiushiro Basically what I'm getting at here is that people who can't deal with their Raven not killing frigates with weapons NEVER intended for killing frigates fail at EVE and life in general. Know what happens when you shoot at a frigate with large artillery? 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely That's not nerfed damage, IT'S NO DAMAGE. So, we use drones only, or get creative and find ways to reduce transversal. Your race has turrets to, so really you shouldn't complain about training them. Great post there, very true. I trained my Minmatar up for months to be almost as capable as a Caldari just comming off of trial. My favorite email was from a friend playing Caldari, when I asked him if he needed any skillbooks or rails that I'd looted. "Nope, no reason to do that. Missles pretty much take care of anything I run into.." This patch just adds some dimension to the Caldari. They're still fun and effective, but they have to diversify their training a bit more, just like all the other races. It's actually fun to fly a cruiser again, without being instantly obliterated by a barrage of cruise missles. Puts alot more ships on the field being useful, instead of just missle boats, which should never have been firing their larger ordinance at smaller ships.
TimGascoigne The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:30:00 - [173] Originally by: Serax 'omg nerf nanos!' 'WTF you nerfed my overpowered **** too?!?!' AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA lol so on the spot. PS I love winners they make my day.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:39:00 - [174] I think by now there is more than enough evidence that missiles are still very effective, they just require fitting slightly differently, and perhaps a change in emphasis in your training and tactics. It is now getting to the point where people doing the emoragequit threads are starting to look more than a little silly.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.14 14:45:00 - [175] My Crow, Rokh, Phoenix and whatever else I may fly are still working just fine. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Squably Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.11.14 15:07:00 - [176] cough bull**** opcough
Zillazuki Terran Robotics Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.11.14 15:28:00 - [177] Originally by: Ultrakorne i tryed a quest for 6 hours... Quest?
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.11.14 15:57:00 - [178] Quest? We don't do ... "Quests". GTFO and Go Back to WOW!11 Originally by: KhaniKirai Edited by: KhaniKirai on 13/11/2008 11:42:34 that also needs a FIX FAST: Now drones are getting basically NEEDED, when are the caldari getting a decent drone bay and bandwith? When are the eagle and cerberus getting also drone space? This caught my interest. As an amarr player. You mean Ravens could get away with doing level 4's before with no 5xtech 2 medium drones to pull their ass out the fire in the worse situation? OOoooo Also, whats wrong with the Raven drone bay? 75m3 space and bandwidth, same as all the other tier 2 tech 1 battleships, no?
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Cr4ck Whores	Posted - 2008.11.14 16:12:00 - [179] Right. I'm going to hopefully sort this out once and for all so everyone can shut up. Missiles have been nerfed, and they have been nerfed hard by this patch. Anyone denying that is ignorant. It has made a lot of the standard setups that are stable for mission running break, especially, like always, for low SP characters. However, it brings them into line with turrets and the other races, so actually this makes them more realistic. The new missile mechanics are also more realistic in their design and we should cheer CCP for doing this. Turrets have always had it harder than missiles for PVP and PVE, and which is why I have trained missiles a lot. Target painters and webs are now your tracking enhancers. Previously, we didn't need them. All turret ships need them, so why not us eh? So you are going to have to fit them. Complaining about shield tanking all day gets you no where. Minmatar have the Maelstrom and the Tempest, both which shield tank and have had to deal with this for a long time. Infact they have it worse because their guns suck aswell, so think yourself lucky. In missions, I have noticed that my missiles now do variations in damage due to the speed of rats. Cruise missiles are the equivalent of Arts or rails. So by and by, hitting ships that move fast, even cruisers is hard. We don't suffer from trans velocity, we suffer from speed. The only solution is to make the target bigger and slower. The issue with the changes, is that the values for Explosion velocity etc, need to be changed slightly. At the moment, even a BS can speed tank a cruise missile, and reduce damage by about 50% + if it isn't painted. It doesn't even have to be moving very fast. This shouldn't happen. I have no problem with anything below BS's being harder to hit and do damage to, but hitting a big big ship with a cruise missile shouldn't be an issue. A bit less damage is fine. But when I hit for 300 when the target is slow and hit for 100 when its going slightly faster for a BS, that is a bit odd I think. It is simply a matter of tweaking the stats a bit more. Which I think they will. To deal with this in missions, paint the target, and move so the target ship has to change its direction, thus reducing its velocity. Remember your velocity has no bearing like a turret ship, you just have to change the opponents velocity. This might mean flying the raven or whatever about, rather than sitting in a spot shooting missiles and tanking like a giant floating platform. Play around with reducing your tank for painters and increasing your cap regen and booster regen. So less hardners and more boost and more cap. Play with the ships and experiment. I can get by by just taking off 1 hardner and fitting a painter. But in a minute I'm going to try fitting lots of painters and 2 amps instead, maybe lose a few of my CN BCU's. I have no turret skills at all, and my drone skills suck, so I'm having to really try to deal with what they have done. The reason everyone is going crazy is that all the setups people are happy with have to be changed, and for caldari ships taking off the shield tank hurts a lot. Don't quit eve, its still great. Ammar have been crap for a long time, gallente got drone's nerfed and now have issues getting close for blasters, Minmatar have it worse than us probably. Now Ammar are the uber race, I don't get upset. They were so **** for so long I'm happy they are better than what I fly. Lasers are cool. Yes it has hit us hard, but that's eve and that's life. I think the changes are for the good of the game. The game is still fun, the game still gets my heart pounding for PVP and I will still specialize in Caldari because they have cool turret ships as well and I love the cerb and have yet to fly the nighthawk, which looks uber. I would still fly a CNR cruise raven over a turret ship for missions. The only one that is possibly better now is the Domi or Golem.
Murk Loar Polytope	Posted - 2008.11.14 16:13:00 - [180] My Manti is still scarey. My Falcon still annoys the hell out of red gangs. My Drake still handles 98% of Level 4's with no trouble. T2 Light Drones still tear out NPC frig/cruiser rectum. Nothing to see here,move along. PS:I'll take your stuff.

Dracthera	Posted - 2008.11.14 16:15:00 - [181] Plenty of people flying Ravens and CNRs figured out how to adapt and make the new missile damage formula still work for them. Not much has changed for them. This change has really highlighted the conventional wisdom that you can't simply plop into a BS as soon as you have the skills to fly one without the accompanying skills it takes to fly it effectively. That's a good thing in the long run. Missions shouldn't be automatic, and shouldn't be AFK-able unless you have an uber ship with mad skills and expensive mods (i.e. to the point where you might begin wondering about soloing L5s). You'll just need to work a bit harder at this game. Adapt and profit.
Sal 'acho	Posted - 2008.11.14 16:18:00 - [182] Originally by: waruiushiro Originally by: Azeryn Funny how those ppl saying "easy, switch from missiles to turrets" are the same who, when told "use missiles instead of turrets", whould wield their raighteus fire as both a weapon and a shield and yell "Why should I cross-train into a different weapon skill tree? I want to use turrets, not missiles, dammit!!!". Hi, hello, Minmatar here. Let me list the skills that my brothers and sisters and I must train to do ANYTHING and usually without complaining (unless there's Caldaris crying somewhere, then we gotta say something): Drones Shield Tanking Armour Tanking Missiles Speed Turrets What Caldari players had to previously train to do level 4 missions: Missiles Away-From-Keyboard V (trains itself, really) ... So yeah. It's not uncommon for Minmatar to say, "oh, this ship will be good. I'll just train all the related skills for it, and in a couple months, I can fly it." These days, I'm seeing a lot of Caldari say, "OMGZORS!!!1 I HAVE TO TRAIN A SKILL OTHER THAN MISSILES OMGWTFRAGEQUIT!!!!!!!!11" For me, I've just completed a training course for drones that would make most Gallente players wince. My turrets skills still need a massive boost, my missile skills are always in need of more days, more days... for missions I had to train shield tanking but all the PvP I do is with armour tanking, so that skill is nowhere near optimal. And on and on. Basically what I'm getting at here is that people who can't deal with their Raven not killing frigates with weapons NEVER intended for killing frigates fail at EVE and life in general. Know what happens when you shoot at a frigate with large artillery? 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely That's not nerfed damage, IT'S NO DAMAGE. So, we use drones only, or get creative and find ways to reduce transversal. Your race has turrets to, so really you shouldn't complain about training them. Maybe it'll be about the Ferox rather than the Drake/Raven combo that must be just so incredibly boring. Hmm... not totally true. I used to fit 1 large turret to my raven to pwn structures. Sometimes I'd shoot off a couple at incoming frigs... 2007.06.09 12:12:13 Combat Your 1400mm Prototype I Siege Cannon perfectly Strikes Strain Decimator Alvi, wrecking for 971.5 damage. But I'll admit it was a bit of a lucky hit
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.11.14 16:21:00 - [183] I said along time back in this very forum that you cant fly battleships with low skills & now the Raven's principle weapon-the good old cruise missile now needs the higher skills to match. This change has been a long time coming & I'm glad of it. I have battleship 5, tec2 cruise skills at 5 & most other missile skills at 4. Why should I not feel superior against a player who has only been playing for 4 weeks & is flying a Raven with virtually no skills & yet was able to take out NPC battleships with near absolute safety. Well done CCP & if the noobs don't like it let me remind them of the tangible benefits of skill training & that includes missiles.
Kormorant Gallente Franklin Federation	Posted - 2008.11.14 16:26:00 - [184] So much crying. I have just done a few level 4 missions in a regular raven (including wc). I had a set of t2 light and mediums, and a target painter. I had no problems whatsoever. The target painter lit up the frigates well and they went pop as well just fine with cruises (although better to use the drones). Using the TP makes a noticable different to damage, even on bs targets. So use one. Caldari are far from nerfed. Like the other races, they now require some thought rather than, lets stick that and that on. I am far from an "expert", so if I can do it just fine, those having difficulties must be either, a) lacking in relevent skill points, b) lacking in knowledge of how to fit a ship, c) useless. I think in most cases c) would apply. Especially afer viewing the fittings that many people lose... The most apt phrase applies as always, "Adapt or die".
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.11.14 16:59:00 - [185] Edited by: KhaniKirai on 14/11/2008 16:59:52 Originally by: Warspawn Edited by: Warspawn on 14/11/2008 14:14:46 Edited by: Warspawn on 14/11/2008 14:12:03 Originally by: waruiushiro Basically what I'm getting at here is that people who can't deal with their Raven not killing frigates with weapons NEVER intended for killing frigates fail at EVE and life in general. Know what happens when you shoot at a frigate with large artillery? 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely That's not nerfed damage, IT'S NO DAMAGE. So, we use drones only, or get creative and find ways to reduce transversal. Your race has turrets to, so really you shouldn't complain about training them. Great post there, very true. I trained my Minmatar up for months to be almost as capable as a Caldari just comming off of trial. My favorite email was from a friend playing Caldari, when I asked him if he needed any skillbooks or rails that I'd looted. "Nope, no reason to do that. Missles pretty much take care of anything I run into.." This patch just adds some dimension to the Caldari. They're still fun and effective, but they have to diversify their training a bit more, just like all the other races. It's actually fun to fly a cruiser again, without being instantly obliterated by a barrage of cruise missles. Puts alot more ships on the field being useful, instead of just missle boats, which should never have been firing their larger ordinance at smaller ships. May i give you both an advise? Fit the correct weapon on your ship, if you want to have at least some chance to hit frigs. Stop with the silly extreme examples, you could also fitted a large projectile with higher tracking. The last time i checked minmatar BS ships give BONUS on different LARGE projectile weapons. These different times of weapons are already split up in artillery and autocannons. They have their ups and downs. Some have worthless tracking, other have good tracking, which can be modified by modules as well. You can trade in damage for being able to hit smaller/faster stuff. Compare this with BS missiles: The weapons were they get bonus on are cruise and torp. Thats it, no further choise at all. There are no modules in game, that help with improving HOW your damage does vs small stuff, like tracking computers and all. Missiles are getting a very hard penalty, with no fitting options or choises to improve it really. Now silly enough, you pick the worst/highest damage turret and compare that with missiles in average. Which is not valid comparison. Its comparing apples with plums. A raven doesnt get bonus on heavy assault, heavy missiles, assault missile launchers ANYMORE. This however was the case long ago in game, but then they nerved missiles on a certain moment and put some extra skills in, that if trained put you back on the same spot as before that patch. If ccp wants to balance stuff better, they should change all missile bonus on ships back to the old settings, where the bonus works on ALL size of launchers. Then people have no problem either with: change your fitting advises. Be glad you have lots of choises what turret types to fit, that even get bonus from your ship platform. Not my fault, you insist on using 1400mm projectiles and dont bother to fit some smaller/higher tracking guns as well and still get bonus...
Exlegion New Light	Posted - 2008.11.14 17:08:00 - [186] Fit a target painter. Trust me, it helps. I run missions... A lot! PWNGE painters are worth fitting now. Cruise missiles are actually more effective with a painter now than pre-patch. Give it a try. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2008.11.14 17:15:00 - [187] Not everyone plays in a region, where the targets only do 1 or 2 types of damage, if that was the case, yes I do understand that people say: fit a target painter, because in that scenario, it doesnt bother your tank that much at all. Now go play in a region where the rats do all kinds of damage....
Exlegion New Light	Posted - 2008.11.14 17:21:00 - [188] I'll admit I haven't tried the changes against all rat types yet. But so far a painter seems to be doing the trick. It looks like a painter now is a 'must' fit for a Lvl 4 mission ship. But along with having to fit one you get slightly better damage against smaller radius targets.
Carrot Toss Caritas.	Posted - 2008.11.14 17:27:00 - [189] Edited by: Carrot Toss on 14/11/2008 17:27:47 Originally by: waruiushiro Know what happens when you shoot at a frigate with large artillery? 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely 1400mm Large Artillery II misses insert frigate here completely That's not nerfed damage, IT'S NO DAMAGE. So, shooting a bike sized projectile at a frigate that is 1/10th the size of your ship (a little bigger than the size of one of your guns), with slow tracking (they are HUGE guns, fyi) and it missing is unreasonable? For Caldari players, your ships have enough room for light drones. Use them. 5x warrior IIs or hobgob IIs will eat a frigate.
Donkee Punch	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:32:00 - [190] Newsflash.. Many of Caldari ships HAVE NO DRONE SPACE.. or so little that it effectively is usless. Missiles only have whatever bonuses come with the ship and the BCU to modify their dmg. Target Painters do NOT have the range missiles do so effectively they are usless unless you're going to be within your TP's range. ALL of these "adapt or die" flamers forget that to "adapt" requres the use of Mid-Slots that directly affect our ability to tank. Never in the history of Eve has one patch so effectively rendered an entire Race such a handicap. Black Prophecy and Jumpgate are coming online soon.... They look very interesting and not a Warlock or Goblin among them..

Cambarus The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:50:00 - [191] I think I'm going to go and post this in al;l the missile whine threads, because TBFH it needs to be said: Well let's look at the nerfs and some buffs of the last year or so, and see how caldari compares to other races: Tier II BCs introduced, caldari and gallente both get a BC capable of fielding >BS sized tanks. Nice Buff IMO (though they later get nerfed a bit, they still field awesome tanks) Nos nerf. Affects everyone but mostly the gallente with their nos Domis. Drone bandwidth. Gallente get a huge nerf that hits 2 of their best ships (Eos and Myrmi) Required? Of course, but the nerf was over the top. The ishkur also took a beating with this one. Drone shield recharge nerf. Gallente get hit really hard with this one as recalling/relaunching drones is no longer very viable. First nano nerf. Nanophoons and nanodomis are no more. Gallente and minmatar get nerfed. I know at some point the calldari recons got boosted, though I don't remember exactly how Razz If someone can point out the change to me that'd be appreciated. Resistance nerf. Armor lost some EM, shields lost some explosive, everyone gets nerfed. Torp Buff. All of a sudden the raven becomes a very viable option in pvp. A raven + a tackler is a dangerous combination when the raven can easily hit >1k DPS Sensor damps reduced massively in effectiveness (by about 50%) HUGE gallente recon nerf. Second nano nerf. Many matari (as well as some gallente + amarr) ships become far less useful in pvp. Those who were paying attention earlier may have noticed that drone boats got nerfed pretty hard a while back. But blaster ships are still viable in pvp! Oh wait... Web nerf. Blaster boats do not have the optimal to work without a good web. The web reduction results in a required tracking several times greater then before, and much more then blasters have. The missile nerf. The raven is no longer the powerhouse of mission running. I'm pretty sure that caldari have had it easy for quite some time now, it amazes me how quickly people complain the instant CCP changes their PVE boats. You'll get used to it, it's not like you're competing against other people in the mission... And as far as PvP goes, Torp raven is still awesome, all ECM ships are as well, and I will be soon flying a blasteRokh as it'll be one of the few blaster boats with the range to track targets. Everyone gets nerfed, the ships are far from useless. There will still be more caldari pilots and caldari raven mission runners then any other race, and the price on CNRs is a hundred freaking mil higher then the navythron... This is the first nerf felt by mission runners in years, which is why we're seeing so much complaining, eventually they will realize that the sky is not, in fact, falling and we will all resume our normal eve lives.
Lorzion Minmatar IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:52:00 - [192] Adapt or Die.
Hannibal Ord Minmatar Cr4ck Whores	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:54:00 - [193] Originally by: Donkee Punch Newsflash.. Many of Caldari ships HAVE NO DRONE SPACE.. or so little that it effectively is usless. Missiles only have whatever bonuses come with the ship and the BCU to modify their dmg. Target Painters do NOT have the range missiles do so effectively they are usless unless you're going to be within your TP's range. ALL of these "adapt or die" flamers forget that to "adapt" requres the use of Mid-Slots that directly affect our ability to tank. If they have no drone space then the weapon system they carry should be able to hit small targets. I.e, if its a Caracal with no drone space, then it should be able to use Heavies or Lights or Hams with painters and hit small targets. If its a Raven there is enough space for 5 lights plus 5 meds. Target painters do work, most of the time you WILL be in target painting range. The only exception to this is sniping with them, and whilst I agree on that point, sniping with missiles stinks of fail anyway. And that doesn't mean you can't get just a LITTLE bit close and still pwn targets. Everything moves slower now, so being 90 - 100km away and painting a target is safer than it was. Come on, you are sad players who are quitting just because of this. To be honest, brutally honest if you have invested lots of time into this game and enjoy it very much like many of us do and you guys are going to quit or jump to another game because missiles are a bit less good than before, then I don't think CCP or the eve community wants you here in the first place. Never has eve handicapped one race? Oh my god are you serious? Ammar were so full of fail about 1 year ago that it was amazing. Minmatar are still worse than Caldari. Ships like the Demios that were amazing about 1 year ago are often quoted now as being death traps. Caldari still have ECM which is uber EWAR and far better than any other races. We still NEVER miss. We still have FOF and all that other jazz and defenders. Even I am annoyed about these changes. I have NO skills in guns and noob skills in drones. I have millions in missiles. So I'm screwed according to all your logic, and yet how come I am still raping missions in my CNR and how come I went toe to toe PVP in a Caracal today with a stabber and wiped the floor with it? I thought I suck at eve, but clearly you guys do. Its not THAT big a thing.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:07:00 - [194] Originally by: Donkee Punch Newsflash.. Many of Caldari ships HAVE NO DRONE SPACE.. or so little that it effectively is usless. In order to short smaller targets, you need to be using light drones. Even the Caracal has room for 2 light drones. -- 249km locking?
Juicy Fruits Empyrean Age	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:14:00 - [195] broken broken broken. Originally by: DHB WildCat The raven is a useless POS now. /me cries a tear. WildCat If BE are telling you its broken, its broken!
Guttripper State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:16:00 - [196] *points and laughs at his fellow Caldarian pilots. For years, I have heard ridicule and taunts about how I played the game wrong because as a Caldari: - I picked Civire over Achura. - I picked turrets over missiles. - I picked the Ferox over the Drake. I survived quite well over the years. Granted, I was not the best of the best, but I took what was considered by most to be the worst aspects of play and made them work. My gaming style has always preferred to be the under achiever instead of the top of the heap - easier not to get knocked off the pedestal like this ~nerf~ has them crying about today.
LC Sulla Caldari House Mekarae	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:19:00 - [197] Originally by: Pteranodon I said along time back in this very forum that you cant fly battleships with low skills & now the Raven's principle weapon-the good old cruise missile now needs the higher skills to match. This change has been a long time coming & I'm glad of it. I have battleship 5, tec2 cruise skills at 5 & most other missile skills at 4. Why should I not feel superior against a player who has only been playing for 4 weeks & is flying a Raven with virtually no skills & yet was able to take out NPC battleships with near absolute safety. Well done CCP & if the noobs don't like it let me remind them of the tangible benefits of skill training & that includes missiles. This! Pretty much sums up my POV to be honest. Hated seeing 3 week old nublets running around in ravens doing lvl IVs. I've got about 8 million in missiles and 3-4 million in engineering with BS-V. CNR with those skills and a few good implants is fine. After years of training I've earned the right to cut through NPCs like a mower to grass. It's that simple... ------------------
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.14 19:26:00 - [198] Originally by: Donkee Punch Newsflash.. Many of Caldari ships HAVE NO DRONE SPACE.. or so little that it effectively is usless. Newsflash… Many Caldari ships DON'T USE MISSILES… or so little that it's effectively irrelevant. For your pleasure: Non-missile ships Harpy — Hybrids. Ferox — Hybrids + Launcher + 5x Drones. Rokh — Hybrids + Launchers + 5x Drones. Scorpion — Turrets + Launchers + 5x Drones. Chimera — More drones than your mom can handle. Vulture — Hybrids + Launchers + 5x Drones. Blackbird — Turrets + Launchers. Moa — Hybrids + Launchers + 3x Drones. Osprey — Turrets + Launchers + 4x Drones. Cormorant — Hybrids + Launcher. Falcon — Turrets + Launchers. Bantam — Turrets + 1x Drone. Merlin — Hybrids + Launchers. Eagle — Hybrids + Launchers. Badger — Turret. Bardger Mk II — Turret. Raptor — Hybrids + Launchers. Wyvern — More drones than your mom and her dog can handle. Missile + Drone ships Drake — Missiles + 5x Drones. Raven — Missiles + 5x Drones. Widow — Missiles + 5x Drones. Nighthawk — Missiles (+ turret) + 5x Drones. Caracal — Missiles (+ turrets) + 2x Drones. Phoenix — Missiles (+ turret) + 5x Drones. Griffin — Missiles (+ turret) + 1x Drone. Heron — Missiles (+ turret) + 1x Drone. Basilisk – Missiles (+ turret) + 5x Drones. Golem — Missiles + 5x Drones. Leviathan — Missiles + 5x Drones. Missile ships with turret slots Buzzard. Kitsune. Condor. Crow. Flycatcher. Manticore. Missile-only ships Hawk. Rook. Kestrel. Cerberus. Onyx. Crane. Of the 41 Caldari ships that can fit some kind of weapon, 23 are missile-oriented. Of those 23, 11 can field drones. Of the 12 that remain, 3 are not really combat ships and 6 can fit turrets for things the missiles can't catch. A total of 6 out of 41 ships (14%) have no option but to use missiles. Of those 6, two have better ways of ruining the enemy's day, and one isn't a combat ship. Out of the 41 ships, 20 can carry drones — 14 can field a full drone swarm. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Sikander 2 Caldari Quietly Confident Inc	Posted - 2008.11.14 20:21:00 - [199] For pvp, at least, i feel that some caldari ships have in fact been boosted! Consider the raptor, which can now shut off MWDs from outside of 10km, and, with a faction web, you can web them from 14km too. Another good thing currently is that its harder to outrun the missiles...whats better, doing less damage than normal or doing no damage cos they're not hitting?
Kormorant Gallente Franklin Federation	Posted - 2008.11.14 22:42:00 - [200] Originally by: Donkee Punch Newsflash.. Many of Caldari ships HAVE NO DRONE SPACE.. or so little that it effectively is usless. Missiles only have whatever bonuses come with the ship and the BCU to modify their dmg. Target Painters do NOT have the range missiles do so effectively they are usless unless you're going to be within your TP's range. ALL of these "adapt or die" flamers forget that to "adapt" requres the use of Mid-Slots that directly affect our ability to tank. Never in the history of Eve has one patch so effectively rendered an entire Race such a handicap. Black Prophecy and Jumpgate are coming online soon.... They look very interesting and not a Warlock or Goblin among them.. Newsflash... crybaby spotted. Caldari have enough drone space to fit mediums and lights. I don't seem to have any problems... perhaps it's you who is the problem? You can always use faction missiles. There are also implants that affect missiles in several ways. Do you bother to use the nice implants that are available? 100km range for TP is more than enough otherwise I run the risk of either being jammed or damped (depending on the rats) which results in wasted ammo. No change there really. You really need to try harder... crying more won't help. ALL of these crybabies complaining about "adapt or die" forget that it is quite possible to "adapt" the fitting to include a target painter and even an afterburner!! shock horror. You don't need an uber doober tank... that means you are doing it wrong... armour tankers rely on low slots for their tank... oh dear... thats where damage mods go... or tracking/power stuff!! shock horror. Never in the history of Eve has one patch so effectively made all the incompetent I wanna be uber by myself in easy mode cry out aloud. The race and ships are not handicapped. It appears many of the players are since they are clearly clueless. Black Prophecy and Jumpgate are coming online soon.... perhaps I can jerk off by myself and pretend I am uber without actually having to do anything. Go play space invaders and cry more. kthxbye



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