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Doctor Penguin
Amarr
Imperial Academy
   |
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:30:00 -
[301]
People, this is an obvious troll and lulz thread. You've all been trolled. -_- |
Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:38:00 -
[302]
 Originally by: Korizan
Edited by: Korizan on 19/11/2008 17:26:15
Actually how about a much simpler solution.
Right now the system goes from 0 to -10 you could increase it to 0 to -20
IF CCP Increased or adjusted the standings soooo
First half you become attackable in high-sec and the second half concord gets involved.
So CCP could then tier the offenses accordingly.
Suicide attacks give a bigger hit then lowsec gate camping etc etc.
That would effectively open up the OPS requests and @ the same time keep the grief or suicide bunch happy as well.
And as a side of this it you could also give more room for people to work in low-sec without totally destroying the rating ?
Would that work ?
It could work, but I don't think you are realizing the true nature of the -10.0 sec status. Its not just griefers and douchebags that have it. Most true pirates maintain it as an emblem so to speak.
In all honesty, I don't see why you are opposed to this implementation as the op is putting it out. The main points I've seen against it are 1) increase in suicide ganks and 2) easy access to market.
I've stated before as have others that the suicide ganking could be dealt with by increased monitoring by CCP of outlaws. As for the market, just ban them from it. On a RP level it is controlled by SCC which is part of CONCORD so yeah, ban them from it. Just remember that this really does not hinder them as alts are easily utilized.
I understand that having SCC ban pirates from the market opens the question why DED doesn't engage the outlaws then? Here you just have to compromise. This system allows for players to control a little bit more how the game is run, how their security is maintained (the market is just something you can't control unless you were to camp every station 23/7, obviously not feasible).
I suppose throwing out the SCC idea and rather having the empire factions and their respective corporations simply not allow docking access to outlaws? In this method you would maintain the idea that outlaws are an open target for any law abiding citizen to engage and also have no access to Empire stations.
And to make it so its not simply pirates going to empire for lulz, you could have pirate faction missions in low sec that send pirates to high sec (I think someone touched on this, perhaps the op?). Now empire dwellers have the added incentive of really ruining a pirates day (revenge anyone?)
|
Cyprus Black
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:41:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Omarvelous
 Think it through.
Will I an outlaw go shopping in high sec?
HELL NO!
ie. I go to Jita to buy and fit up my ship. Sweet - I got it and I'm going to undock...
BUT WAIT!
200 people undocked see me (outlaw) undocked in his ship. Seeing that they have free rights to shoot me and POD me, and that my corp mates cannot not assist me in anyway I die horribly.
I dont want to shop with my outlaw character. I have an industrial alt to take care of all my high sec shopping needs. I in turn manufacture all my - and my corp's needs in low sec.
I don't need high sec shopping. I want MORE fights - even if all the game mechanics favor YOU!
After thinking it through, the answer is still no. Sympathy for your self created situation just isn't coming.
___________________________________________________
The Escapist: EvE Online video review. |
Space Wanderer
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:42:00 -
[304]
You guys can't see this guy agenda? He clearly aims at suicide ganking in empire without the hassle of having to rebuild his standing.
|
Omarvelous
Caldari
Destry's Lounge
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:42:00 -
[305]
Originally by: Furb Killer
2. It would open a can filled with loopholes.
Name 1. Current mechanics + what I have mentioned covers these imaginery loopholes you're conjuring up.
* your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout |
Cyber Blue
Gallente
Cyber Blue Consulting
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:44:00 -
[306]
Quote:
I suppose throwing out the SCC idea and rather having the empire factions and their respective corporations simply not allow docking access to outlaws? In this method you would maintain the idea that outlaws are an open target for any law abiding citizen to engage and also have no access to Empire stations.
And to make it so its not simply pirates going to empire for lulz, you could have pirate faction missions in low sec that send pirates to high sec (I think someone touched on this, perhaps the op?). Now empire dwellers have the added incentive of really ruining a pirates day (revenge anyone?)
I would be for allowing outlaws access to stations they have positive standing with in order to make use of a "black market" so to speak.
Criminal "pirate" factions should most certainly have agents in low-sec. Regardless this should be done.
End of line... |
Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:44:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Omarvelous
Originally by: Furb Killer
2. It would open a can filled with loopholes.
Name 1. Current mechanics + what I have mentioned covers these imaginery loopholes you're conjuring up.
There are none. Hence the vague statement "a can filled with loopholes" and no elaboration.
|
Omarvelous
Caldari
Destry's Lounge
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:46:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
You guys can't see this guy agenda? He clearly aims at suicide ganking in empire without the hassle of having to rebuild his standing.
EPIC FAIL.
Read my posts about having Concord shadow an Outlaw and insta destrpy them if they commit a crime.
Do YOU fly AFK untanked ship hauling billions? No?
Then come up with something else to mask your fears.
* your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout |
Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:47:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Cyber Blue
I would be for allowing outlaws access to stations they have positive standing with in order to make use of a "black market" so to speak.
Criminal "pirate" factions should most certainly have agents in low-sec. Regardless this should be done.
This would work as well. I really think it would be in CCP's best interest to expand the Pirate/smuggler professions and its counterpart, bounty hunters. The ops' proposition is an idea that would open up many doors to improving this aspect of the game. |
Omarvelous
Caldari
Destry's Lounge
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:48:00 -
[310]
Originally by: Cyprus Black
Originally by: Omarvelous
Think it through.
Will I an outlaw go shopping in high sec?
HELL NO!
ie. I go to Jita to buy and fit up my ship. Sweet - I got it and I'm going to undock...
BUT WAIT!
200 people undocked see me (outlaw) undocked in his ship. Seeing that they have free rights to shoot me and POD me, and that my corp mates cannot not assist me in anyway I die horribly.
I dont want to shop with my outlaw character. I have an industrial alt to take care of all my high sec shopping needs. I in turn manufacture all my - and my corp's needs in low sec.
I don't need high sec shopping. I want MORE fights - even if all the game mechanics favor YOU!
After thinking it through, the answer is still no. Sympathy for your self created situation just isn't coming.
Your sympathy is as useless to me as your worthless response.
I want to enhance eve - your fear of change is blinding you to a great pvp opportunity. |
Korizan
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:48:00 -
[311]
Edited by: Korizan on 19/11/2008 17:49:11
Originally by: Emperor Salazar
It could work, but I don't think you are realizing the true nature of the -10.0 sec status. Its not just griefers and douchebags that have it. Most true pirates maintain it as an emblem so to speak.
In all honesty, I don't see why you are opposed to this implementation as the op is putting it out. The main points I've seen against it are 1) increase in suicide ganks and 2) easy access to market.
I've stated before as have others that the suicide ganking could be dealt with by increased monitoring by CCP of outlaws. As for the market, just ban them from it. On a RP level it is controlled by SCC which is part of CONCORD so yeah, ban them from it. Just remember that this really does not hinder them as alts are easily utilized.
I understand that having SCC ban pirates from the market opens the question why DED doesn't engage the outlaws then? Here you just have to compromise. This system allows for players to control a little bit more how the game is run, how their security is maintained (the market is just something you can't control unless you were to camp every station 23/7, obviously not feasible).
I suppose throwing out the SCC idea and rather having the empire factions and their respective corporations simply not allow docking access to outlaws? In this method you would maintain the idea that outlaws are an open target for any law abiding citizen to engage and also have no access to Empire stations.
And to make it so its not simply pirates going to empire for lulz, you could have pirate faction missions in low sec that send pirates to high sec (I think someone touched on this, perhaps the op?). Now empire dwellers have the added incentive of really ruining a pirates day (revenge anyone?)
I see your point I modified my post to use the following
So
You become KOS to Players with the following;
* -2.00 for access to 1.0 security level systems
* -2.50 for access to 0.9 security level systems
* -3.00 for access to 0.8 security level systems
* -3.50 for access to 0.7 security level systems
* -4.00 for access to 0.6 security level systems
* -4.50 for access to 0.5 security level systems
And
You become CONCORD lunch @ the following;
* -5.00 for access to 1.0 security level systems
* -5.50 for access to 0.9 security level systems
* -6.00 for access to 0.8 security level systems
* -6.50 for access to 0.7 security level systems
* -7.00 for access to 0.6 security level systems
* -7.50 for access to 0.5 security level systems
As you can see the -10 pirates will still be locked out.
THe badge of honour has a price.
BUT defending yourself will not hurt as much.
The only thing I can think off hand is the penalaties for suicide ganking would have to be increased to account for the changes but I think they should leave low-sec penalties alone as this would give it a much needed boost. |
Omarvelous
Caldari
Destry's Lounge
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:50:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Emperor Salazar
Originally by: Cyber Blue
I would be for allowing outlaws access to stations they have positive standing with in order to make use of a "black market" so to speak.
Criminal "pirate" factions should most certainly have agents in low-sec. Regardless this should be done.
This would work as well. I really think it would be in CCP's best interest to expand the Pirate/smuggler professions and its counterpart, bounty hunters. The ops' proposition is an idea that would open up many doors to improving this aspect of the game.
Likewise - pirate factions ought to have NPC stations in low sec that offer missions to smuggle/steal things in high sec.  |
Cyber Blue
Gallente
Cyber Blue Consulting
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:56:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Omarvelous
Originally by: Emperor Salazar
Originally by: Cyber Blue
I would be for allowing outlaws access to stations they have positive standing with in order to make use of a "black market" so to speak.
Criminal "pirate" factions should most certainly have agents in low-sec. Regardless this should be done.
This would work as well. I really think it would be in CCP's best interest to expand the Pirate/smuggler professions and its counterpart, bounty hunters. The ops' proposition is an idea that would open up many doors to improving this aspect of the game.
Likewise - pirate factions ought to have NPC stations in low sec that offer missions to smuggle/steal things in high sec.
I will agree. After all, where's the security to stop them from setting up these stations low-sec. Since the Empires have chosen to not really worry about low-sec all that much, it's obvious the criminal element will set up shop there. |
Space Wanderer
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:56:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Omarvelous
Originally by: Space Wanderer
You guys can't see this guy agenda? He clearly aims at suicide ganking in empire without the hassle of having to rebuild his standing.
EPIC FAIL.
Read my posts about having Concord shadow an Outlaw and insta destrpy them if they commit a crime.
Epic Troll... seriously after saying "Im going to ignore the trolling" you should ignore yourself. Maybe you already do.
Was going to ask more info on what the "instadestroy" would matter to alphastrike, but I really can't be bothered anymore with this thread. |
tracykins
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 17:56:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Omarvelous
I'll see your analogy and 1 up you with an in game analogy.
Why are NPC rats (outlaw criminals with Concord bounties) allowed at all in high sec? They should be instantly bbqed by faction police. No belt rats. No mission rats (If I'm found at a deadspace - so can the rats).
Get rid of NPC rats in high sec then. Just mine and trade in high sec. Orrrr - allow the rats to stay - and player outlaws as well!
This has been answered already, the NPC rats are not outlaws they have are at WAR with the empires, concord does not interfere with wars. |
Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:01:00 -
[316]
Originally by: tracykins
Edited by: tracykins on 19/11/2008 17:57:09
Originally by: Omarvelous
I'll see your analogy and 1 up you with an in game analogy.
Why are NPC rats (outlaw criminals with Concord bounties) allowed at all in high sec? They should be instantly bbqed by faction police. No belt rats. No mission rats (If I'm found at a deadspace - so can the rats).
Get rid of NPC rats in high sec then. Just mine and trade in high sec. Orrrr - allow the rats to stay - and player outlaws as well!
This has been answered already, the NPC rats are not outlaws they are at WAR with the empires, concord does not interfere with wars.
Correct. And CONCORD doesn't come after outlaws. The navies do.
Thus, shouldn't the navies be policing up the NPC rats they're AT WAR WITH? Nah. Better take care of that bad bad outlaw first. He'll scare the noobs away he will. |
Cyber Blue
Gallente
Cyber Blue Consulting
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:01:00 -
[317]
Originally by: tracykins
Edited by: tracykins on 19/11/2008 17:57:09
Originally by: Omarvelous
I'll see your analogy and 1 up you with an in game analogy.
Why are NPC rats (outlaw criminals with Concord bounties) allowed at all in high sec? They should be instantly bbqed by faction police. No belt rats. No mission rats (If I'm found at a deadspace - so can the rats).
Get rid of NPC rats in high sec then. Just mine and trade in high sec. Orrrr - allow the rats to stay - and player outlaws as well!
This has been answered already, the NPC rats are not outlaws they are at WAR with the empires, concord does not interfere with wars.
Allow players to join these criminal "pirate" factions and thus enter faction wars. I would like to see that happen regardless. |
Martin Mckenna
Shake n Bake
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:06:00 -
[318]
why bother having a sec stats then? |
Emperor Salazar
Caldari
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:06:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Cyber Blue
Allow players to join these criminal "pirate" factions and thus enter faction wars. I would like to see that happen regardless.
This actually came up at Fan Fest and the devs sort of did a silent thought, yeah we'll keep that in mind (as part of FW I believe, its in one of the released videos.)
It would be another phenomenal expansion of the pirate/smuggler arena, a very underdeveloped aspect of EvE. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:07:00 -
[320]
Quote:
Name 1. Current mechanics + what I have mentioned covers these imaginery loopholes you're conjuring up.
Wardecs, it will mean -10 pirates can go arround in empire shooting war targets. They can just dock whenever random people attack them, and go for wartargets. Or they attack a high sec POS of their targets, how many random people do you think will go to the pos to help defend it?
low sec pockets which are cut off from rest of low sec by high sec systems. Sure you can go through them now with pod and use carrier to jump your ship there, but every time your ship is destroyed carrier jumping a new one is a bit more work than just going right through the high sec system.
---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae
Military experts are calling this a troll.
|
Cyber Blue
Gallente
Cyber Blue Consulting
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:34:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Emperor Salazar
Edited by: Emperor Salazar on 19/11/2008 18:13:03
Originally by: Cyber Blue
Allow players to join these criminal "pirate" factions and thus enter faction wars. I would like to see that happen regardless.
This actually came up at Fan Fest and the devs sort of did a silent thought, yeah we'll keep that in mind (as part of FW I believe, its in one of the released videos.)
It would be another phenomenal expansion of the pirate/smuggler arena, a very underdeveloped aspect of EvE.
EDIT: About 60 minutes into the "CCP Panel" video you can hear the devs take on this introduction.
Thanks, just listened to it. Sounds like it may be done in the future. Perhaps it will take some pushing to let them know there is really a part of EvE that wants this type of thing. That means that threads like this that provide ideas for pirates and smugglers alike are a good thing and need to be done more often. |
Omarvelous
Caldari
Destry's Lounge
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:39:00 -
[322]
Originally by: tracykins
Edited by: tracykins on 19/11/2008 17:57:09
Originally by: Omarvelous
I'll see your analogy and 1 up you with an in game analogy.
Why are NPC rats (outlaw criminals with Concord bounties) allowed at all in high sec? They should be instantly bbqed by faction police. No belt rats. No mission rats (If I'm found at a deadspace - so can the rats).
Get rid of NPC rats in high sec then. Just mine and trade in high sec. Orrrr - allow the rats to stay - and player outlaws as well!
This has been answered already, the NPC rats are not outlaws they are at WAR with the empires, concord does not interfere with wars.
Then why is CONCORD paying you bounties for killing outlaw rats?
Why is your sec status with CONCORD improving when you kill rats?
Its because they are criminals/outlaws and its hypocritical to allow them and not player controlled outlaws. |
Omarvelous
Caldari
Destry's Lounge
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 18:54:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Quote:
Name 1. Current mechanics + what I have mentioned covers these imaginery loopholes you're conjuring up.
Wardecs, it will mean -10 pirates can go arround in empire shooting war targets. They can just dock whenever random people attack them, and go for wartargets. Or they attack a high sec POS of their targets, how many random people do you think will go to the pos to help defend it?
low sec pockets which are cut off from rest of low sec by high sec systems. Sure you can go through them now with pod and use carrier to jump your ship there, but every time your ship is destroyed carrier jumping a new one is a bit more work than just going right through the high sec system.
Can docked up outlaws still shoot you in space? NOPE - they're out of the playing field then.
Aggression timers mean if an outlaw is firing back at you he has 1 min after he deagresses to be able to dock or jump. Its not an instant process.
Hmmm high sec POSES...
- No Capital ships allowed - check
- All ewar batteries 100% effective - check (no siegeing dreads)
- A large Caldari POS has 50,000,000 HP. Even 50 (1000 dps) Ravens would take 20 minutes to get the POS into reinforced. So POS guns + ANYONE else that wants to come shoot the outlaws isn't enough of a deterrent?
Well you have stront - so you know EXACTLY when they'll be coming back to finish the job. You can't muster up a defence force? Are you not social enough to ask for help in local 'Hey guys free targets to shoot at'? Hell different outlaws may come after the war deccing outlaws and to get a good fight. You put up an expensive asset - have the means to defend it. I want more pvp in this game.
Low sec pockets cut off from each other by 1 high sec system means nothing. You can still get through just fine.
High sec alts still allow me to evade all of the system limiting repercussions of being an outlaw.
I want to be able to engage in pvp anywhere in Eve, and I'm willing to do it in high sec with all the game mechanics working against me. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 19:02:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Martin Mckenna
why bother having a sec stats then?
Because undocking your hauler outside of Jita with being KOS to everyone would be slightly problematic? Etc?
|
Suzarn
Caldari
Destry's Lounge
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 20:30:00 -
[325]
I have read many posts stating that Omar's proposal is not sound from the Role Play perspective and I have to agree. It does not make any sense that an outlaw would be allowed into High-Sec under any circumstance.
That being said, from a Role Play point of view, I do not believe that Concord or Navies would completely ignore mass amounts of NPC pirates to freely roam around High-Sec either. It also does not make any sense for an Agent to send the lone Merc (Player) to fight against twenty to a hundred or more NPC pirates when they have Concord and the Navies at their disposal in High-Sec. In Low-Sec this would make much more sense, since in Low-Sec, Concord and the Navies do not exist.
Therefor NPC pirates should be completely removed from High-Sec and only be found in Low-Sec or Null-Sec, leaving only Courier missions and Factional encounter missions (Amarr Navy, Gallente Navy, etc) to be left in High-Sec. Then by adding a double or triple reward for Pirate faction encounters in Low-Sec. This would entice "carebears" to leave High-Sec and risk their ships for a more lucrative mission.
This would accomplish the goals of both sides, keeping pirates out of High-Sec and creating more targets for PVP players.
|
Ana Vyr
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 20:53:00 -
[326]
Karma is a pain in the butt, isn't it?
So, pirate players want more fights..this is completely understandable.
The trouble is, you've got idiot pirate wannabes running around in high sec flipping cans and you've got low sec pirates camping gates, shooting anything that moves. This kinda stuff makes me rather unsympathetic to your plight. The lack of easy kills in areas you can actually use is, essentially, your own fault.
I'd rather not have blinky red folks in high sec talking trash and generally trying to mess with me at every opportunity, thanks. I get plenty of that every time I get stupid and go into low sec.
Its a shame that this is the case, but all the pirates I've ever run into don't like fair fights...they prefer lopsided fights followed by open mockery for being a newb pilot. Shrug.
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Guttripper
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 20:56:00 -
[327]
Perhaps it was mentioned, but why not have "hidden" smuggler gates scattered around various systems of high sec? These gates are available for a limited time (day to a week), are mentioned by shady agents, and do not connect the systems directly as they are through normal means. That is, a gate from Jita might lead straight into Motsu while another gate from Motsu might really leap all the way to Amamake. Add that a key is required to activate them - offered through agents for ISK and / or loyalty points, and lower security pirates can casually mingle for a while. Meanwhile, high security players might be informed of these gates through a mission and have to guard it for a time. Any low security players arriving would require the high security player to engage - another reason to (occasionally) build a PVP ship in high security space.
Of course, CCP would have to rework how Concord reacts without being the all-knowing, all-seeing entity that arrives instantaneously anywhere in the system and destroys without mercy.
Just a thought.
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Jazzebella
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 20:59:00 -
[328]
Looking at it from a RP perspective it doesn't make any sense to have criminals running around in secure areas. A terrorist or criminal wouldn't' be hanging around long in a police station or army base.
As a matter of convince for players it was your choice and to get that security status. It was my choice to go get a lot of industrial skills, I want to PVP now, can I just have PVP skills given to me in place of my industrial skills?
And would the opposite be true as well. If someone with high security status were to go into low sec would concord's protection extend further then just 0.5? |
Omarvelous
Caldari
Destry's Lounge
|
Posted - 2008.11.19 21:18:00 -
[329]
Edited by: Omarvelous on 19/11/2008 21:19:35
Originally by: Jazzebella
Looking at it from a RP perspective it doesn't make any sense to have criminals running around in secure areas. A terrorist or criminal wouldn't' be hanging around long in a police station or army base.
As a matter of convince for players it was your choice and to get that security status. It was my choice to go get a lot of industrial skills, I want to PVP now, can I just have PVP skills given to me in place of my industrial skills?
And would the opposite be true as well. If someone with high security status were to go into low sec would concord's protection extend further then just 0.5?
<Sigh>
1st paragraph - explain why NPC rats in high sec exist then.
2nd paragraph - How the hell do skills relate to being able to fly in a particular location?!?!? Your argument here would make sense if I was whining that I can't compete with an industrialist in making Ravens because I don't have a Hulk, I don't perfect refine skills, and I don't have perfect production efficiency, etc.
My choices mean I will NEVER get sentry/Concord assistance. My corp mates cannot assist me without getting concord/sentries on themselves. I accept and deal with these consequences all the time. My point is that I want to be able to travel throughout Eve just like you. Except unlike you - I'm a valid target 100% of the time I am undocked wherever I am. That means I would need to get my head examined if I chose to undock at a crowded station.
If someone with high sec status goes into low sec they have sentry gun assistance if a criminal act is committed against them. That's 300 dps for FREE. That means I can't use certain types of ships at a stargate or I will be destroyed (hence why gate camps in 0.0 are FAR more difficult to escape from aside from bubbles). Your friends can freely remote rep you and give you EWAR protection as long as you don't commit any crimes yourself.
If you want a chance in low sec/null sec - realize the 1st thing anyone that lives in low sec/0.0 sec does. Fly a small escapable ship solo - fly in groups with bigger ships. Teamwork. You got ganked because you went alone. Pirates face the same problems in low sec that high sec people do without sentry gun assistance. They thrive because of teamwork.
* your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout |
Durty Nell
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.11.20 02:48:00 -
[330]
Mate I posted my question previously not for my benefit but for the benefit of your argument. IÆll give you a little more context for it, in the hope of shedding a little more light.
When I started this game I ran missions. I had to travel to low sec during this time, where, I was inevitably relieved of my vessel and pod once or twice. Probably like you this mission running lasted all of say just a few days at most. I canÆt remember exactly since it was so long ago but I decided to move to low sec myself and work from there, thinking about it, it was somewhere between 3 and 5 days of starting my account.
I made the choice because I enjoyed the challenge. Since then I have been involved in the type of policing action you described across the low sec area I worked in, and others, another month or so and I was successfully travelling between 0.0 and low sec, been involved in empire wars, moved into 0.0, been involved in massive fleet fights, contested space across multiple regions and much, much more.
As youÆve by now no doubt guessed this toon is an alt. I chose to respond to your OP with this toon because I felt responses may have been coloured if I posted with my main.
As I mentioned above I have lost ships and pods to outlaws in the past on quite a few occasions as a relatively new player. IÆve since returned the compliment to all but a very few of those pilots. The pilots I havenÆt as yet returned the compliment to have my utmost respect for the clever way in which they play. I guess this is just my nature and my ability to retain memories of competent competitive foes lol.
In spite of that I canÆt discriminate between pirates or bears IÆve had the pleasure to call both styles of player my wingman in my time. I think both are necessary in EvE for very different reasons. I understand your motivation completely. I donÆt necessarily agree with your argument I think more work needs to be done in support of your initial premise, or possibly a complete reworking of your initial premise all together.
I guess the main problem with your argument is the definition of PvP, which incidentally is in acceptance with my own definition of PvP. However many bears hold a very different notion of PvP. The development staff have encouraged PvP in many distinctly different ways. As a result of this encouragement many players have extended this to market superiority among other competitive player versus player possibilities. This is absolutely true to all but those hampered by incredulity.
Wording is a very powerful tool to have at your fingertips, therefore from the above, PvP and fights are not necessarily perceived as the same thing depending upon which perspective it is viewed from.
With that said if my initial question cannot be answered either succinctly or at length then the argument is at best incomplete, to all but the layman incongruous, and gives rise to yet further alarming caveat.
Apologies to the tl;dr crowd.
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