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Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:32:00 - [1] I think it would be neat to allow outlaws to come back into high sec without faction police shooting them on site. Would concord still attack if the pirate commits a crime? Yes - infact response times vs outlaws could be enhanced (concord shadowing you). Would players still be allowed to freely agress AND pod kill the outlaw? Yes. Would outlaws be able to move around more without the need for carriers/freighters? Yes. Would the outlaws' friends get GCC and concord for remote assitance? Yes. Huge disadvantage for a pvp corp. More pvp and more customers for industrialists. Honestly its stacked in favor of non-pirates by a good bit. Thoughts?
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:34:00 - [2] No Your choice to be a pirate, accept the consequences. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:36:00 - [3] Originally by: Furb Killer No Your choice to be a pirate, accept the consequences. I don't think I said I don't accept the consequences. I'm trying to add more variety to the game. Do you wet yourself a little when someone goes flashy on your overview? Why would you feel so threatened by this change when you'd still have your precious concord there to save you from unwanted aggression?
Riga Mortiss	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:37:00 - [4] NO You chose your sec status when you decided to pirate and gate camp. Live with your choice. If you want to come back to empire grind SOH missions to rebuild your status like everyone else. Live with low status or grind missions..... those are your choices. Deal with it.
Terraform Gallente Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:38:00 - [5] Grind missions like the rest, or rat your way into good standing. What kind of easy-mode request is this anyway? what a ****y pirate.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:39:00 - [6] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Furb Killer No Your choice to be a pirate, accept the consequences. I don't think I said I don't accept the consequences. I'm trying to add more variety to the game. Do you wet yourself a little when someone goes flashy on your overview? Why would you feel so threatened by this change when you'd still have your precious concord there to save you from unwanted aggression? Oh yes, you are so big and scary mr piwate. Please don't hurt me. I am afwaid. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
I SoStoned	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:41:00 - [7] And it's always fun when a -10 comes wandering by in their POD. Happened to me one day, right after fitting out a Sabre. I came out of warp and there he was, slow-boating along on autopilot all nice and bright and flashy. With a 173m bounty that fit nicely into my darn near empty wallet, and his corpse in the cargohold. For a moment I felt like a frog idly snapping up a wandering fly.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:42:00 - [8] Originally by: Riga Mortiss NO You chose your sec status when you decided to pirate and gate camp. Live with your choice. If you want to come back to empire grind SOH missions to rebuild your status like everyone else. Live with low status or grind missions..... those are your choices. Deal with it. Can you explain why this would be a bad idea? Or do you just reject anything different out of habit? I accept my decision quite nicely - infact I can still move around as I need. I wouldn't mind seeing some high sec people trying to attack me though. You'd have all the advantages. Remote rep - Falcons to jam - Get to Fire first and when you're ready at YOUR optimals. You can even POD me! I don't see a good reason why this couldnt/shouldn't be implemented. If I need to travel I just have an alt cyno up a carrier with my things. Or a freighter, etc. Its more of an idea to get more fights.
Zytrel Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:43:00 - [9] I've been having the same thought for some time now. :) It would actually allow players to police highsec themselves with close to zero risk. But I doubt that the "OMG, accept the consequences"-brigade will ever be able to see the bigger picture, and instead keep yelling at you. :)
EnslaverOfMinmatar Yarsk Hunters DeaDSpace Coalition	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:43:00 - [10] Shouldn't you be ratting instead of making pointless threads? XD uʍop ǝpısdn ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ ƃuıpɐǝɹ ǝɹɐ noʎ

Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:44:00 - [11] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Furb Killer No Your choice to be a pirate, accept the consequences. I don't think I said I don't accept the consequences. I'm trying to add more variety to the game. Do you wet yourself a little when someone goes flashy on your overview? Why would you feel so threatened by this change when you'd still have your precious concord there to save you from unwanted aggression? Oh yes, you are so big and scary mr piwate. Please don't hurt me. I am afwaid. Exactly - its nothing but a 'hey free and easy target' to shoot at and pod. Why would this be a bad thing in high sec? People should JUMP at teh opportunity to get a fight with all the mechanics in THEIR favor!
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:45:00 - [12] i so stoned,you are so awsome i wish i could solo a pirate pod like you! Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
juduzz Amarr Atomic Battle Penguins The Darwin Award Foundation	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:46:00 - [13] Should be that way least into 0.5-0.7 ( someone sudgested this awhile ago)give me more stuff to shoot
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Terraform Grind missions like the rest, or rat your way into good standing. What kind of easy-mode request is this anyway? what a ****y pirate. I have 0 - NONE - NO desire to rat my sec status up to get into high sec. My suggestion was for a way to get more fights with the game mechanics stacked against me. Yet you reject it. I'm fine with the way things are - just seeing if anyone would like to increase pvp opportunities. I like the insults though - apparently a pirate must have gotten to you somehow.
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Omarvelous Can you explain why this would be a bad idea? Can you explain what the point of having a sec status is if you can freely travel to any system? -2.5 sec cant enter 0.9 systems. With your system, he can, and no one can shoot him as he is not an outlaw.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:48:00 - [16] Right now - a high sec player wanting to fight an outlaw - has to travel into low sec through gate camps and fight on the pirates' terms - I'm offering you guys a chance to fight on your terms!
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Lady Karma Originally by: Omarvelous Can you explain why this would be a bad idea? Can you explain what the point of having a sec status is if you can freely travel to any system? -2.5 sec cant enter 0.9 systems. With your system, he can, and no one can shoot him as he is not an outlaw. OK I'll meet you halfway. Anyone with a sec status lower than what the system allows would be free to shoot at by anyone with a high enough sec status. -2.5 player goes to 1.0 system. Status changes from yellow to flashy red (no GCC - just local killrights). High sec status gives you all the game mechanics in your favor then!
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:54:00 - [18] Quote: Can you explain what the point of having a sec status is if you can freely travel to any system? pritty simple rly the reason we want to travle to any system is becuse we dont want to have to use carriers and alts to move our ***,if this where implemnted we could travle around freely but yall have some huge ass advantages when it comes to killing us and geting our bountys cough* bounty hunters anyone? /cough short story 1.shoot pirate 2.attempt to kill pirate 3.???? 4.possible profit! Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Gone'Postal Minmatar Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:54:00 - [19] Originally by: Omarvelous Can you explain why this would be a bad idea? Or do you just reject anything different out of habit? Habit, however Its one of the most basic things about the sec status. But I'd love to see flashing red things on overview more often, as said, not like they can do anything. TBH tho, same could be said about capital ships in empire, I'd love to see more of them undocking and jumping out. Boost SISI VOTE NOW!
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Omarvelous I think it would be neat to allow outlaws to come back into high sec without faction police shooting them on site. Would concord still attack if the pirate commits a crime? Yes - infact response times vs outlaws could be enhanced (concord shadowing you). Would players still be allowed to freely agress AND pod kill the outlaw? Yes. Would outlaws be able to move around more without the need for carriers/freighters? Yes. Would the outlaws' friends get GCC and concord for remote assitance? Yes. Huge disadvantage for a pvp corp. More pvp and more customers for industrialists. Honestly its stacked in favor of non-pirates by a good bit. Thoughts? An old idea but still an excellent one. Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Death of Virtue is Recruiting

Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:56:00 - [21] Originally by: Po3tank Quote: Can you explain what the point of having a sec status is if you can freely travel to any system? pritty simple rly the reason we want to travle to any system is becuse we dont want to have to use carriers and alts to move our ***,if this where implemnted we could travle around freely but yall have some huge ass advantages when it comes to killing us and geting our bountys cough* bounty hunters anyone? /cough short story 1.shoot pirate 2.attempt to kill pirate 3.???? 4.possible profit! /me wishes people in this thread could see what I meant like you did...
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:57:00 - [22] Edited by: Lady Karma on 18/11/2008 17:59:23 Originally by: Omarvelous OK I'll meet you halfway. Anyone with a sec status lower than what the system allows would be free to shoot at by anyone with a high enough sec status. -2.5 player goes to 1.0 system. Status changes from yellow to flashy red (no GCC - just local killrights). High sec status gives you all the game mechanics in your favor then! I'm still puzzled as to how you think that will benefit your gameplay. People that don't want to shoot you, wont shoot you. The only benefit would be that you can shop in high sec without the hassle of moving your BS back to low sec. The motive for your change seems to be your own laziness. You did admit you cba to sec up Laziness motive reinforced by Po3tank (and please tell me how you scramble a pod without using a dictor bubble, to get the bounty)
Josef Odinssen	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:58:00 - [23] No. Because: Gatecampers pretty much close the door to lowsec/nullsec for everything but the most skilled blockade runners. Most of them dont even ask you any questions they just shoot on sight, so its only fair when you come onto carebear turf you get pwned utterly by the concord campers in a way they are completely helpless to avoid/combat. its a taste of your own medicine. drink it like a man.
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:58:00 - [24] see i have the heart of a pirate inside me and a carebear heart i came accross in my hand,both are still alive and pumping blood!this allows me to see benefits to both sides and not single minded nonsence
Gone'Postal Minmatar Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.18 17:59:00 - [25] Originally by: Josef Odinssen No. Because: Gatecampers pretty much close the door to lowsec/nullsec for everything but the most skilled blockade runners. Most of them dont even ask you any questions they just shoot on sight, so its only fair when you come onto carebear turf you get pwned utterly by the concord campers in a way they are completely helpless to avoid/combat. its a taste of your own medicine. drink it like a man. LMFAO I love your thinking and they way you put that.
Marchocias Silent Ninja's Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:00:00 - [26] I think its a rather good idea. Not necessarily the correct way to go, but to my mind it would slightly bridge the hisec/losec gap to some extent. Anything which could encourage carebears to actually have a fight is a good idea in my opinion. Ignore the flamers... anyone who doesn't actually give a reason for why they like/dislike this (or any other) idea, should be taken out and summarily executed. For the crime of ignorance.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:00:00 - [27] It would result mainly in noobs losing their ships because they shoot flashy reds. Next likely result is that when someone attacks the outlaw his friends from same corp jump in and kill you. And not being able to get stuff in high sec (too bad alts ruin this system, but it makes it at least a bit more work), is the entire point behind sec status.
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:01:00 - [28] Quote: Gatecampers pretty much close the door to lowsec/nullsec for everything but the most skilled blockade runners. Most of them dont even ask you any questions they just shoot on sight, so its only fair when you come onto carebear turf you get pwned utterly by the concord campers in a way they are completely helpless to avoid/combat. the reason why your logic is flawed is becuse carebears can bring lots of people to blob said camp and destroy it.. however no mater how many people the pirates bring to destroy the "highsec camp" we cant kill the faction police and we still die no mater what
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:02:00 - [29] Originally by: Lady Karma Edited by: Lady Karma on 18/11/2008 17:57:44 Originally by: Omarvelous OK I'll meet you halfway. Anyone with a sec status lower than what the system allows would be free to shoot at by anyone with a high enough sec status. -2.5 player goes to 1.0 system. Status changes from yellow to flashy red (no GCC - just local killrights). High sec status gives you all the game mechanics in your favor then! I'm still puzzled as to how you think that will benfit your gameplay. People that don't want to shoot you, wont shoot you. The only benefit would be that you can shop in high sec without the hassle of moving your BS back to low sec. The motive for your change seems to be your own laziness. You did admit you cba to sec up Laziness motive reinforced by Po3tank Think it through. Will I an outlaw go shopping in high sec? HELL NO! ie. I go to Jita to buy and fit up my ship. Sweet - I got it and I'm going to undock... BUT WAIT! 200 people undocked see me (outlaw) undocked in his ship. Seeing that they have free rights to shoot me and POD me, and that my corp mates cannot not assist me in anyway I die horribly. I dont want to shop with my outlaw character. I have an industrial alt to take care of all my high sec shopping needs. I in turn manufacture all my - and my corp's needs in low sec. I don't need high sec shopping. I want MORE fights - even if all the game mechanics favor YOU!
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:04:00 - [30] Quote: Next likely result is that when someone attacks the outlaw his friends from same corp jump in and kill you. this dose not work if you attack a flashy red and his corp member attacks you he gets concorded by concord!!and also he dies a misrable death becuse he attacked you when you never aggresed him befor you argue in a topic learn about aggresion stuff plz!

Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:05:00 - [31] Corp mates can assist you unless they completely change the system. When undocking you should have no issues warping before someone can kill you. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Lady Karma	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:05:00 - [32] Originally by: Omarvelous I don't need high sec shopping. I want MORE fights - even if all the game mechanics favor YOU! Well you shouldn't have over-fished you low sec pocket then. Move around, try a different area, it's not really that hard to get a fight in eve.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:05:00 - [33] Originally by: Josef Odinssen No. Because: Gatecampers pretty much close the door to lowsec/nullsec for everything but the most skilled blockade runners. Most of them dont even ask you any questions they just shoot on sight, so its only fair when you come onto carebear turf you get pwned utterly by the concord campers in a way they are completely helpless to avoid/combat. its a taste of your own medicine. drink it like a man. Stop being thick headed. You should have scouted/escorted yourself into low sec. Fun fact - outlaws and pirates have the SAME exact dangers that you do when crossing low sec gates (ie we can get BBQ'd by other pirates). We don't even get gate suns to help us. Yet we use scouts and our heads to avoid this as much as possible. I'm not upset over police attacking me. I want MORE fights...Sheeesh...
Zytrel Purgatorial Janitors Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:06:00 - [34] Originally by: Lady Karma I'm still puzzled as to how you think that will benefit your gameplay. People that don't want to shoot you, wont shoot you. The only benefit would be that you can shop in high sec without the hassle of moving your BS back to low sec. The motive for your change seems to be your own laziness. You did admit you cba to sec up Laziness motive reinforced by Po3tank (and please tell me how you scramble a pod without using a dictor bubble, to get the bounty) Well, as a player with no sec rating issues, I still support the idea. Simply because I'd like to see players themselves handling the job the NPCs are doing for them atm. It might have been necessary back when the EVE universe was sparsely populated, but nowadays the only excuse for having NPCs protect highsec is the laziness of the real players.
mamolian Madhatters Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:06:00 - [35] Make a generous donation to the Concord Social Fund, and get your sec status improved! -----------
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:07:00 - [36] Got better stuff to do than scouting myself, not everyone got an alt or people who can scout for you. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:07:00 - [37] Quote: Make a generous donation to the Concord Social Fund, and get your sec status improved! /thread Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:08:00 - [38] Originally by: Furb Killer It would result mainly in noobs losing their ships because they shoot flashy reds. Next likely result is that when someone attacks the outlaw his friends from same corp jump in and kill you. And not being able to get stuff in high sec (too bad alts ruin this system, but it makes it at least a bit more work), is the entire point behind sec status. Do you know game mechanics? Outlaws cannot receive assistance without their friends getting concorded. You attack me - I'm on my own. if my friend jams you or reps me - concord destroys him. As for noobs - hmmm maybe they'll learn a lot more from that fight than they ever would in the security of high sec? This would increase fights! Why is that BAD?!
Josef Odinssen	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:08:00 - [39] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Josef Odinssen No. Because: Gatecampers pretty much close the door to lowsec/nullsec for everything but the most skilled blockade runners. Most of them dont even ask you any questions they just shoot on sight, so its only fair when you come onto carebear turf you get pwned utterly by the concord campers in a way they are completely helpless to avoid/combat. its a taste of your own medicine. drink it like a man. Stop being thick headed. You should have scouted/escorted yourself into low sec. Fun fact - outlaws and pirates have the SAME exact dangers that you do when crossing low sec gates (ie we can get BBQ'd by other pirates). We don't even get gate suns to help us. Yet we use scouts and our heads to avoid this as much as possible. I'm not upset over police attacking me. I want MORE fights...Sheeesh... well you know not everyone wants to run 2 accounts just to move about the galaxy. After all, If i need a second account to scout the lowsec gate, surely as a crim you should have a second "fixer" account to do your hisec work for you, thus negating your need to come into empire as a crim.
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:09:00 - [40] becuse they want hello citty spaceship games Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal

Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:09:00 - [41] Originally by: Lady Karma Originally by: Omarvelous I don't need high sec shopping. I want MORE fights - even if all the game mechanics favor YOU! Well you shouldn't have over-fished you low sec pocket then. Move around, try a different area, it's not really that hard to get a fight in eve. I do - I already roam 20 jumps, head into different regions, etc. But I want more baby!
Julian Lynq	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:10:00 - [42] i see no need to change the current mechanic. there is a price you pay for certain carier decisions in eve. in your case, the price is a couple of days in sec status grinding. Which, while being pretty boring, really isnt that much of a burdon, and that many players before you had to go through aswell. in addition, there really is no applyable role-playing logic as to why faction police would not shoot outlaws. its their job, its what they are there for.
Terraform Gallente Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:10:00 - [43] Originally by: Furb Killer It would result mainly in noobs losing their ships because they shoot flashy reds. Next likely result is that when someone attacks the outlaw his friends from same corp jump in and kill you. And not being able to get stuff in high sec (too bad alts ruin this system, but it makes it at least a bit more work), is the entire point behind sec status. This.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:11:00 - [44] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Furb Killer It would result mainly in noobs losing their ships because they shoot flashy reds. Next likely result is that when someone attacks the outlaw his friends from same corp jump in and kill you. And not being able to get stuff in high sec (too bad alts ruin this system, but it makes it at least a bit more work), is the entire point behind sec status. Do you know game mechanics? Outlaws cannot receive assistance without their friends getting concorded. You attack me - I'm on my own. if my friend jams you or reps me - concord destroys him. As for noobs - hmmm maybe they'll learn a lot more from that fight than they ever would in the security of high sec? This would increase fights! Why is that BAD?! Probably true they cant get help, but how would noobs learn anything from seeing their ship disapear in seconds besides that they shouldnt attack reds? It is bad because you got to accept the consequences of your sec status, if you pirate, you cant enter high sec anymore, get over it. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:13:00 - [45] Quote: After all, If i need a second account to scout the lowsec gate, surely as a crim you should have a second "fixer" account to do your hisec work for you, thus negating your need to come into empire as a crim. just for refreance i only have 1 account but i have a alt for hauling.same account people!.... you dont need 2 accounts for scouting just get a friend to scout for you its a mmo or you can be balzy and charge threw like i do Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:13:00 - [46] Originally by: Josef Odinssen Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Josef Odinssen No. Because: Gatecampers pretty much close the door to lowsec/nullsec for everything but the most skilled blockade runners. Most of them dont even ask you any questions they just shoot on sight, so its only fair when you come onto carebear turf you get pwned utterly by the concord campers in a way they are completely helpless to avoid/combat. its a taste of your own medicine. drink it like a man. Stop being thick headed. You should have scouted/escorted yourself into low sec. Fun fact - outlaws and pirates have the SAME exact dangers that you do when crossing low sec gates (ie we can get BBQ'd by other pirates). We don't even get gate suns to help us. Yet we use scouts and our heads to avoid this as much as possible. I'm not upset over police attacking me. I want MORE fights...Sheeesh... well you know not everyone wants to run 2 accounts just to move about the galaxy. After all, If i need a second account to scout the lowsec gate, surely as a crim you should have a second "fixer" account to do your hisec work for you, thus negating your need to come into empire as a crim. Holy crap dude. Park your ship at a high sec station. Grab a shuttle - covops - blockade runner - recon. Go to low sec. Look around - no one at gate. Use your scanner (if you know how to use it). Hmm is it clear or not? If not - you saved yoru expensive ship. If its clear - hurry up and move! You just drastically cut yoru losses at low sec gate camps. I've done it myself countless times. Tip of the iceberg in escaping a low-sec gate camp.
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:15:00 - [47] Quote: Probably true they cant get help, but how would noobs learn anything from seeing their ship disapear in seconds besides that they shouldnt attack reds? so what you would rather them come into my lowsec and get killed and learn that way??? might even give them a fobie of low sec space.. o wait they alrdy are scared... Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:15:00 - [48] That roughly increases your travel time by a factor 5 at least, it isnt realistic to do that at every gate --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:18:00 - [49] Originally by: Furb Killer Probably true they cant get help, but how would noobs learn anything from seeing their ship disapear in seconds besides that they shouldnt attack reds? It is bad because you got to accept the consequences of your sec status, if you pirate, you cant enter high sec anymore, get over it. You mean like: - Everyone has kill rights on me - so they can freely attack as they like? - Everyone can POD me without consequences? Get that juicy bounty without sec status concerns. - My corpmates can do absolutely NOTHING to help me? - If I commit a crime in high sec I get bbqed by Concord with no insurance. So again I'm dealing with the consequences already!
Gone'Postal Minmatar Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:19:00 - [50] The view of a Empire gutter rat -> them Ebil -10's are just killmail *****s, serve no goal and are out to ruin my playstyle. The view of a Ebil -10 -> Them stupid empire gutter rats, won't fight, they won't change nor will they ever move out of high-sec. These views are almost written in stone, it's like a tigers hunting rabbits, they can't mingle, can't live together nor can they "get along" Welcome to EvE. Fustration city is just around the bend. not sure why i wrote this, but what the hell! Boost SISI VOTE NOW!

Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:19:00 - [51] Originally by: Furb Killer That roughly increases your travel time by a factor 5 at least, it isnt realistic to do that at every gate Look up travel fit. I move BS through low sec/hostile space by myself all the time. You can get by. No comparison to high sec and getting a 'dose of my own medicine'....
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:21:00 - [52] Edited by: Furb Killer on 18/11/2008 18:22:40 Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Furb Killer Probably true they cant get help, but how would noobs learn anything from seeing their ship disapear in seconds besides that they shouldnt attack reds? It is bad because you got to accept the consequences of your sec status, if you pirate, you cant enter high sec anymore, get over it. You mean like: - Everyone has kill rights on me - so they can freely attack as they like? - Everyone can POD me without consequences? Get that juicy bounty without sec status concerns. - My corpmates can do absolutely NOTHING to help me? - If I commit a crime in high sec I get bbqed by Concord with no insurance. So again I'm dealing with the consequences already! Now accept ALL the consequences, you cant move stuff in high sec, be happy you can go through high sec. And i dont use travel fit because i only go to low sec to shoot stuff --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:23:00 - [53] Originally by: Julian Lynq i see no need to change the current mechanic. there is a price you pay for certain carier decisions in eve. in your case, the price is a couple of days in sec status grinding. Which, while being pretty boring, really isnt that much of a burdon, and that many players before you had to go through aswell. in addition, there really is no applyable role-playing logic as to why faction police would not shoot outlaws. its their job, its what they are there for. I have no desire to increase my sec status. I can get by high sec just fine. I can get items and mods in high sec just fine. I'm not doing this to be able to TRAVEL in high sec - I want to get FIGHTS in high sec. I deal with the outlaw consequences already. My opponents can freely shoot me/pod me, my corpmates get GCC for helping me in anyway, I NEVER get sentry gun assistance... etc. You guys haven't given me 1 good reason why this shouldn't be implemented!
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:25:00 - [54] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Furb Killer No Your choice to be a pirate, accept the consequences. I don't think I said I don't accept the consequences. I'm trying to add more variety to the game. Do you wet yourself a little when someone goes flashy on your overview? Why would you feel so threatened by this change when you'd still have your precious concord there to save you from unwanted aggression? Let's say it like this(thread winner inc); If we allow pirates to high-sec freely, does this mean that we can go to 0.0 and be "invurnerable" to attacks? My opinions represent the opinions of my corporation completely. I'm the CEO damnit.
Julian Lynq	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:27:00 - [55] Originally by: Omarvelous You guys haven't given me 1 good reason why this shouldn't be implemented! what about this: Quote: in addition, there really is no applyable role-playing logic as to why faction police would not shoot outlaws. its their job, its what they are there for.
Kale Kold Caldari DEATH'S LEGION	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:27:00 - [56] Originally by: Omarvelous I don't see a good reason why this couldnt/shouldn't be implemented. If you we're a real pirate you should never want to go back to hisec, ever! We choose the life we lead because most pirates hate carebears. Why would we want to be amongst them? Let them come to us! Record of Destruction
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:32:00 - [57] I don't much see the utility in it, but I don't have any objections _____________________ My opinions plus a tablespoon of water may be substituted for your own.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:34:00 - [58] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Josef Odinssen No. Because: Gatecampers pretty much close the door to lowsec/nullsec for everything but the most skilled blockade runners. Most of them dont even ask you any questions they just shoot on sight, so its only fair when you come onto carebear turf you get pwned utterly by the concord campers in a way they are completely helpless to avoid/combat. its a taste of your own medicine. drink it like a man. Stop being thick headed. You should have scouted/escorted yourself into low sec. Fun fact - outlaws and pirates have the SAME exact dangers that you do when crossing low sec gates (ie we can get BBQ'd by other pirates). We don't even get gate suns to help us. Yet we use scouts and our heads to avoid this as much as possible. I'm not upset over police attacking me. I want MORE fights...Sheeesh... Mr. Odinssen was on the track, but his formulation was a bit wrong. The biggest inconvenience and the reason why the NPC police needs to hunt you down is to make logistics for your lawless character horrible. Of course you can use an alt for the minor shopping but ship purchases will always be an annoyance. Also, there are plenty of "dead end" low sec systems where a single 0.5 system is preventing the outlaw to pass between one low sec system to another. This is intentional. By having lawless characters movement limited to low sec space when they are a potential threat (in a ship) they are easier to track down and catch for those that wish to do so (in theory). ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Josef Odinssen	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:38:00 - [59] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Julian Lynq i see no need to change the current mechanic. there is a price you pay for certain carier decisions in eve. in your case, the price is a couple of days in sec status grinding. Which, while being pretty boring, really isnt that much of a burdon, and that many players before you had to go through aswell. in addition, there really is no applyable role-playing logic as to why faction police would not shoot outlaws. its their job, its what they are there for. I have no desire to increase my sec status. I can get by high sec just fine. I can get items and mods in high sec just fine. I'm not doing this to be able to TRAVEL in high sec - I want to get FIGHTS in high sec. I deal with the outlaw consequences already. My opponents can freely shoot me/pod me, my corpmates get GCC for helping me in anyway, I NEVER get sentry gun assistance... etc. You guys haven't given me 1 good reason why this shouldn't be implemented! 1 good reason: nullsec is for player driven politics and self government lowsec is for criminals to do WTF they like hisec is for law abiding citizens to wish to live under the rule of law. Everyone has their space to be happy. Your argument: I want my cake and to eat it. its not enough that i can get fights freely, without consequence in the entire of lowsec, and nullsec i now want to go and invade hisec where people stay because god forbid, they might want to do something other than fight that day (and you see enough nullsec players in empire going about their biz to prove its not just carebears) and fight them. Well im sure there is plenty of players in Empire who would love to go to Lowsec and farm the more valuable resources, trade routes, missions without fear of pirate ganking but they can't, because thats your turf, and you wants your cake and eats it.
Faife Noctiscion	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:39:00 - [60] military experts are calling the OP a failure

Grarr Dexx Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:45:00 - [61] Rat your way up, troll. You do the crime, you do the time.
Shirley Serious Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:52:00 - [62] Edited by: Shirley Serious on 18/11/2008 18:52:43 Pirates live in lowsec. Lowsec sucks, so nobody goes there, Pirates don't get fights. Pirates unhappy. CCP observes complaints and considers this a problem. Pirates allowed into highsec, Pirates get more fights, Pirates happy. CCP observe no complaints so considers problem solved. But lowsec still sucks and nobody goes there. Lowsec made interesting, people go there, Pirates get more fights, Pirates happy. CCP observe no complaints, so considers problem solved. Yes. Yes, I am.
truckdriverED	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:55:00 - [63] I remember a while back googling the best ways to make isk and ran across this guy's signature on an isk selling web site.... hmm....
Luther Gorn	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:56:00 - [64] Real pirates don't pine for Jita.
Game Ruiner	Posted - 2008.11.18 18:59:00 - [65] Edited by: Game Ruiner on 18/11/2008 18:59:33 Originally by: Shirley Serious Edited by: Shirley Serious on 18/11/2008 18:52:43 Pirates live in lowsec. Lowsec sucks, so nobody goes there, Pirates don't get fights. Pirates unhappy. CCP observes complaints and considers this a problem. Pirates allowed into highsec, Pirates get more fights, Pirates happy. CCP switchboard and email servers melt under the weight of 100,000 angry carebears so considers problem made much worse. But lowsec still sucks and nobody goes there, but now empire sucks as bad as lowsec and nobody goes there either. jita economy collapses and CCP is bankrupt due to carebear cancellations. Lowsec made interesting, people go there, Pirates get more fights, Pirates happy. CCP observe no complaints, so considers problem solved. fixed that for you
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:01:00 - [66] Hmmm. Not being able to travel in high sec seems like an effective penalty. It's a real disincentive to podkilling for example. This suggests to me it's working. Your way would allow those players to travel through high sec at will which removes a lot of the buggerance factor. Being flashy red... well that's hardly the end of the world for a PVP-er. Plus it'd allow you to pursue targets into high sec?
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:07:00 - [67] What the OP is suggesting is free kills for people in highsec. What most of the replyers seem to be thinking is that they're the only ones in this game, and that there isn't constantly empire PvPers and nullsec PvPers moving around in Eve. (note; just because your not willing to risk your ship to have a bit of fun doesn;t mean noone else is) It's not even like pirates would be able to roam highsec in large groups, because they'd just get picked off in a fight. I don't see any real reason against this.. except maybe limiting their movement to 0.5-0.7 space.
ouroboros trading Gallente Medics On Fire	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:08:00 - [68]
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:11:00 - [69] Originally by: Davina Braben Hmmm. Not being able to travel in high sec seems like an effective penalty. It's a real disincentive to podkilling for example. This suggests to me it's working. Your way would allow those players to travel through high sec at will which removes a lot of the buggerance factor. Being flashy red... well that's hardly the end of the world for a PVP-er. Plus it'd allow you to pursue targets into high sec? Couldnt pursue them if I committed a crime in low sec - Concord would still bbq me. Thats fine - the target could still escape with my request. A lot of the carebear responses I'm getting in this thread show me you guys have NO CLUE how pvp works in this game. I am NOT introducing non-consentual pvp into high sec. I STILL won't be able to gank you unless I want to lose my ship to concord. If you dont want to fight - YOU DONT HAVE TO!!!! You could see some flashy outlaws in high sec - and they couldnt do anything to you unless you decided to engage them. You could just pass them by and NOTHING would happen. A neat consequence of my idea would be for outlaws to be able to engage in war decs. Guess what - ALL of EVE could help you defend yourself against these outlaws. You could crash the party. Think of the fun - the chaos?! I am not much of a fan of war decs right now because if someone doesnt want a war - they can just run to alt corps/npc corps and avoid the war. If an outlaw decced you - you could have all of local come in and give you a hand. What outlaw corp in their right mind would camp a station when 50-60 ships in local could swarm in and attack them, and they'd only be able to respond to those that aggressed them?! If you DONT want a fight - my request does NOTHING to you. You carry on carebearing and outlaws STILL can't touch you.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:13:00 - [70] Originally by: ouroboros trading shopping Dude I explained already an outlaw would NOT want to shop in high sec. The second you undock in a trade hub you'd be roasted - with NO chance of help. I have an industrial alt to shop with - I dont need high sec - just looking to spice up the pvp in this game some more.

Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:14:00 - [71] Originally by: truckdriverED I remember a while back googling the best ways to make isk and ran across this guy's signature on an isk selling web site.... hmm.... Yep its a banner from an isk seller's website. http://www.swagvault.com/eve-online-c-904.html The poor english in the banner made me laugh, so I took it.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:15:00 - [72] No, if you can't resist the "laughs" to pod ppl.. then don't cry about coming to high sec. PS: you can still move through high sec, just use your pod, sometimes even a shuttle might make it, don't know these days with the changes.. In anycase, being flashy is hardly the end i hear, find your way to a friendly 0.0 and rat for a few days..
Terraform Gallente Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:16:00 - [73] Originally by: Shirley Serious Edited by: Shirley Serious on 18/11/2008 18:52:43 Pirates live in lowsec. Lowsec sucks, so nobody goes there, Pirates don't get fights. Pirates unhappy. CCP observes complaints and considers this a problem. Pirates allowed into highsec, Pirates get more fights, Pirates happy. CCP observe no complaints so considers problem solved. But lowsec still sucks and nobody goes there. Lowsec made interesting, people go there, Pirates get more fights, Pirates happy. CCP observe no complaints, so considers problem solved. Actually, i think this would be the thing that could solve both mr.marvelous AND everyone elses problems involving low-sec. GIVE PEOPLE SOME RESON TO GO THERE OTHER THAN JUST PASSING THROUGH! This is ofcourse directed at CCP as it's theirjob to change things radically in this game. Give people some reason to go there, not just some medium fancy asteroids, but a REAL purpose. 1. Missions in low-sec, good ones! 2. Nice minerals! 3. Rats that's worth more than 25k ISK (yes i know there's big rats out there, but they are pale in comparison to the rats in 0.0 and high-sec lvl 4's). 4. Add some kind of objective or attraction to it, not sure what, but think of SOMETHING. Regardless of the OP calling me a carebear i'd love more pvp activity.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:16:00 - [74] The result will be rookies get killed alot, and sec status basicly doesnt matter anymore
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:17:00 - [75] Come on in imo.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:18:00 - [76] If you want to go fight in highsec, you can just go and do it. If you want to do it without NPC involvement, you can just go and do that too. There is no problem here that needs solving.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:19:00 - [77] Originally by: Gnomes Rock What the OP is suggesting is free kills for people in highsec. What most of the replyers seem to be thinking is that they're the only ones in this game, and that there isn't constantly empire PvPers and nullsec PvPers moving around in Eve. (note; just because your not willing to risk your ship to have a bit of fun doesn;t mean noone else is) It's not even like pirates would be able to roam highsec in large groups, because they'd just get picked off in a fight. I don't see any real reason against this.. except maybe limiting their movement to 0.5-0.7 space. E X A C T L Y A gang of outlaws would get picked off 1 by 1. High sec players could develop a coordinated attack - the pirates could just fend for themselves BY themselves. Honestly an outlaw can fly up to a cruiser hull through high sec without getting stopped by the NPCs. Smart players on a stargate however can ruin that trip! I am not restricted in my movement through high sec one bit. If I really need to move things - I cyno up a carrier and go where I need to. This is NOT about high sec MOVEMENT - its about getting MORE fights!
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:20:00 - [78] Originally by: Grarr Dexx Rat your way up, troll. You do the crime, you do the time. What a fail attempt at flaming me. I'm asking for MORE fights in high sec that everyone can CHOOSE to engage in or NOT. With ALL the game mechanics in their favor!!! You seem to have a mistaken impression I wish to travel in and shop in high sec.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:21:00 - [79] Originally by: Faife military experts are calling the OP a failure I call your oversized sig a failure. Go away with your worthless input.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:27:00 - [80] Originally by: Black Scorpio No, if you can't resist the "laughs" to pod ppl.. then don't cry about coming to high sec. PS: you can still move through high sec, just use your pod, sometimes even a shuttle might make it, don't know these days with the changes.. In anycase, being flashy is hardly the end i hear, find your way to a friendly 0.0 and rat for a few days.. This thread went way over your head. I don't need tips on traveling through high sec - I can already go where I need to without any major problems. I'm not crying about not being able to TRAVEL in high sec. I want more pvp in EVE!!!

Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:28:00 - [81] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Gnomes Rock What the OP is suggesting is free kills for people in highsec. What most of the replyers seem to be thinking is that they're the only ones in this game, and that there isn't constantly empire PvPers and nullsec PvPers moving around in Eve. (note; just because your not willing to risk your ship to have a bit of fun doesn;t mean noone else is) It's not even like pirates would be able to roam highsec in large groups, because they'd just get picked off in a fight. I don't see any real reason against this.. except maybe limiting their movement to 0.5-0.7 space. E X A C T L Y A gang of outlaws would get picked off 1 by 1. High sec players could develop a coordinated attack - the pirates could just fend for themselves BY themselves. Honestly an outlaw can fly up to a cruiser hull through high sec without getting stopped by the NPCs. Smart players on a stargate however can ruin that trip! I am not restricted in my movement through high sec one bit. If I really need to move things - I cyno up a carrier and go where I need to. This is NOT about high sec MOVEMENT - its about getting MORE fights! Really? The way i see it is a flashy sits 10km off station in a well tanked BS, while his buddies in a nice safie. An idiot engages the flashy, the rest jump the idiot.. There you go.. i don't see why this commotion is required in high sec. There are already plenty of wars there..
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:31:00 - [82] Originally by: Black Scorpio Really? The way i see it is a flashy sits 10km off station in a well tanked BS, while his buddies in a nice safie. An idiot engages the flashy, the rest jump the idiot.. There you go.. i don't see why this commotion is required in high sec. There are already plenty of wars there.. Suicide attacks already happen (frequently). And I still see that well-tanked BS dieing as everyone who undocks see a flashy getting attacked and decide to join in the fun while the flashies mates get concorded.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:33:00 - [83] Edited by: Omarvelous on 18/11/2008 19:33:56 Originally by: Black Scorpio Really? The way i see it is a flashy sits 10km off station in a well tanked BS, while his buddies in a nice safie. An idiot engages the flashy, the rest jump the idiot.. There you go.. i don't see why this commotion is required in high sec. There are already plenty of wars there.. You have NO clue what so ever about outlaw game mechanics. The outlaw's corp get NO - ZERO - NADA rights to attack you for attacking him. They will NOT be free to attack you at all. You can abuse the oulaw all you want - only the outlaw himself will be able to engage you back. His friends cannot jam you. His friends cannot remote rep him. He is alone. YOU can shoot him. Your friends can shoot him. The random stranger in local passing by can shoot him. Your friends can jam him. Your friends can remote rep you!! Learn the rules before you comment on them!
Buhhdust Princess Fatality.	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:34:00 - [84] Originally by: Riga Mortiss NO You chose your sec status when you decided to pirate and gate camp. Live with your choice. If you want to come back to empire grind SOH missions to rebuild your status like everyone else. Live with low status or grind missions..... those are your choices. Deal with it. Why do you associate pirates and gatecamping? not all pirates do so screw u basically.. tbh, the others are right tho, the choice to go pirate is like choosing 2 different paths. Highsec carebearing and general fail, or lowsec ownage and 0.0 lolage for funtime... i prefer lowsec myself (-9.999999 ftw) GO PIRATES
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:34:00 - [85] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Davina Braben Hmmm. Not being able to travel in high sec seems like an effective penalty. It's a real disincentive to podkilling for example. This suggests to me it's working. Your way would allow those players to travel through high sec at will which removes a lot of the buggerance factor. Being flashy red... well that's hardly the end of the world for a PVP-er. Plus it'd allow you to pursue targets into high sec? Couldnt pursue them if I committed a crime in low sec - Concord would still bbq me. Thats fine - the target could still escape with my request. A lot of the carebear responses I'm getting in this thread show me you guys have NO CLUE how pvp works in this game. I am NOT introducing non-consentual pvp into high sec. I STILL won't be able to gank you unless I want to lose my ship to concord. If you dont want to fight - YOU DONT HAVE TO!!!! You could see some flashy outlaws in high sec - and they couldnt do anything to you unless you decided to engage them. You could just pass them by and NOTHING would happen. A neat consequence of my idea would be for outlaws to be able to engage in war decs. Guess what - ALL of EVE could help you defend yourself against these outlaws. You could crash the party. Think of the fun - the chaos?! I am not much of a fan of war decs right now because if someone doesnt want a war - they can just run to alt corps/npc corps and avoid the war. If an outlaw decced you - you could have all of local come in and give you a hand. What outlaw corp in their right mind would camp a station when 50-60 ships in local could swarm in and attack them, and they'd only be able to respond to those that aggressed them?! If you DONT want a fight - my request does NOTHING to you. You carry on carebearing and outlaws STILL can't touch you. What's fine is for you to get back to your gate camp and stfu, was i clear enough for you this time? You seem to not be able to comprehend it otherwise...
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:35:00 - [86] Edited by: Black Scorpio on 18/11/2008 19:35:36 Originally by: Buhhdust Princess Originally by: Riga Mortiss NO You chose your sec status when you decided to pirate and gate camp. Live with your choice. If you want to come back to empire grind SOH missions to rebuild your status like everyone else. Live with low status or grind missions..... those are your choices. Deal with it. Why do you associate pirates and gatecamping? not all pirates do so screw u basically.. tbh, the others are right tho, the choice to go pirate is like choosing 2 different paths. Highsec carebearing and general fail, or lowsec ownage and 0.0 lolage for funtime... i prefer lowsec myself (-9.999999 ftw) GO PIRATES Because it's easy. :) Edit: oh and yes, go... as long as it's not high sec :)
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:36:00 - [87] Originally by: Black Scorpio What's fine is for you to get back to your gate camp and stfu, was i clear enough for you this time? You seem to not be able to comprehend it otherwise... Great reason for why my OP is a bad idea! I see I frustrated you with superior logic and knowledge, and you are left gibbering 'STFU'. I pity you.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:36:00 - [88] Originally by: Buhhdust Princess Originally by: Riga Mortiss NO You chose your sec status when you decided to pirate and gate camp. Live with your choice. If you want to come back to empire grind SOH missions to rebuild your status like everyone else. Live with low status or grind missions..... those are your choices. Deal with it. Why do you associate pirates and gatecamping? not all pirates do so screw u basically.. tbh, the others are right tho, the choice to go pirate is like choosing 2 different paths. Highsec carebearing and general fail, or lowsec ownage and 0.0 lolage for funtime... i prefer lowsec myself (-9.999999 ftw) GO PIRATES Since you "own" so much in low sec, why don't you stay there in ... general? :P
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:37:00 - [89] Edited by: Gnomes Rock on 18/11/2008 19:37:31 Originally by: Black Scorpio What's fine is for you to get back to your gate camp and stfu, was i clear enough for you this time? You seem to not be able to comprehend it otherwise... You seem to believe that your point has significant benefit to the thread even when you neglect to add any reasons to support it and fail to show understanding of basic game mechanics. People like you are the reason GD is going to **** to be honest..
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:38:00 - [90] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Black Scorpio What's fine is for you to get back to your gate camp and stfu, was i clear enough for you this time? You seem to not be able to comprehend it otherwise... Great reason for why my OP is a bad idea! I see I frustrated you with superior logic and knowledge, and you are left gibbering 'STFU'. I pity you. So do i, seeing you drool around the gates of high sec, with an empty cargohold, and being bored b/c ppl prefer to wait and make you chew your nails with frustration :P

Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:39:00 - [91] Originally by: Gnomes Rock Edited by: Gnomes Rock on 18/11/2008 19:37:31 Originally by: Black Scorpio What's fine is for you to get back to your gate camp and stfu, was i clear enough for you this time? You seem to not be able to comprehend it otherwise... You seem to believe that your point has significant benefit to the thread even when you neglect to add any reasons to support it and fail to show understanding of basic game mechanics. People like you are the reason GD is going to **** to be honest.. You bet bro, as soon as the op convinces me he has a valid point, so will i start listing valid counter arguments. So far he has failed :PP
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:41:00 - [92] god i hate carebears Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:41:00 - [93] Originally by: Black Scorpio You bet bro, as soon as the op convinces me he has a valid point, so will i start listing valid counter arguments. So far he has failed :PP Damn, shoulda known I was getting trolled.
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:41:00 - [94] yup allow the pirate back in,and at the same time,to balance things out : 1. triple mission rewards and loot for missioners in empire 2. more valuable stuff for miners to mine in empire 3. complexes/exploration sites that drop officer stuff more regularly for the explorer 4. BPO lottery for builders 5. safe routes from empire to 0.0 for traders 6. triple yield high slots for chribba one item for each type in eve, only fair ====================
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:42:00 - [95] To all players saying No to a change to the current system, keep in mind that any serious pirate has a hauler alt, it takes 2 weeks to fly a proper hauler that can transport anything under bc size. What the op is asking for is generally just a less metagaming and more gamefitting solution. Personaly i see the current system flawed as any pirate has a hauler alt. Allowing -5 into highsec is a easy solution but it could be done alot better imo. Alter courier missions, create a middle way between current courier missions and buy-orders on the market. Ie. atm you can put buy orders on the market, but if youre looking for a ship with fitting in some lowsec system itll take weeks until you have the ship ready. If you want to create courier missions you have to be in the highsec trading system alrdy. A solution could be a courier mission, that a trader can accept, then buys the mods/ship/mods+ship in jita ro soemwhere and brings it to where the courier mission was created. Itll not only give -5 characters a alternative to metagaming but also add content for trader and generally newer players lookin for a moneysource. One possible change of so many the current lowsec needs. - Boosters and PirateProfessions
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:44:00 - [96] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists What the op is asking for is generally just a less metagaming and more gamefitting solution. What the OP is asking for is pointless — what he wants can already be done and the mechanics for it already exists in the game. He's just too lazy to actually play the game. No deal. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:44:00 - [97] Originally by: Bimjo yup allow the pirate back in,and at the same time,to balance things out : 1. triple mission rewards and loot for missioners in empire 2. more valuable stuff for miners to mine in empire 3. complexes/exploration sites that drop officer stuff more regularly for the explorer 4. BPO lottery for builders 5. safe routes from empire to 0.0 for traders 6. triple yield high slots for chribba one item for each type in eve, only fair Because people in empire have such a hard time making isk and defending space as is.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:46:00 - [98] Originally by: Gnomes Rock Originally by: Black Scorpio You bet bro, as soon as the op convinces me he has a valid point, so will i start listing valid counter arguments. So far he has failed :PP Damn, shoulda known I was getting trolled. Hahah, you don't know what you just did to yourself.. :)
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:46:00 - [99] Quote: What the OP is asking for is pointless ù what he wants can already be done and the mechanics for it already exists in the game. He's just too lazy to actually play the game. back up your statment plz i see no points on why he is lazy and i dont see how a -10 can praticipate in empire with current mechanics
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:48:00 - [100] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists What the op is asking for is generally just a less metagaming and more gamefitting solution. What the OP is asking for is pointless ù what he wants can already be done and the mechanics for it already exists in the game. He's just too lazy to actually play the game. No deal. Mind elaborating your pointless flame? How exactly am I lazy? How is ratting NPC's hard work? I don't NEED access to high sec - I'm asking for more fights through out the game. If this were implemented you could play the game EXACTLY as you are now - and you would NOT be affected in the slightest bit.

Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:48:00 - [101] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists To all players saying No to a change to the current system, keep in mind that any serious pirate has a hauler alt, it takes 2 weeks to fly a proper hauler that can transport anything under bc size. What the op is asking for is generally just a less metagaming and more gamefitting solution. Personaly i see the current system flawed as any pirate has a hauler alt. Allowing -5 into highsec is a easy solution but it could be done alot better imo. Alter courier missions, create a middle way between current courier missions and buy-orders on the market. Ie. atm you can put buy orders on the market, but if youre looking for a ship with fitting in some lowsec system itll take weeks until you have the ship ready. If you want to create courier missions you have to be in the highsec trading system alrdy. A solution could be a courier mission, that a trader can accept, then buys the mods/ship/mods+ship in jita ro soemwhere and brings it to where the courier mission was created. Itll not only give -5 characters a alternative to metagaming but also add content for trader and generally newer players lookin for a moneysource. One possible change of so many the current lowsec needs. Metagaming or not, it's still an effort that must be put in, which makes for some sort of a penalty. Doesn't matter if the guy is bending backwards, or just mildly inconvenienced.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:49:00 - [102] Originally by: Po3tank Quote: What the OP is asking for is pointless ù what he wants can already be done and the mechanics for it already exists in the game. He's just too lazy to actually play the game. back up your statment plz i see no points on why he is lazy and i dont see how a -10 can praticipate in empire with current mechanics Again, he doesn't have to backup anything, op needs to get up his ass and use the "current game mechanics already in place" to fix his sec status up if he wants to visit high sec in anything else than a pod. Case closed!
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:49:00 - [103] Originally by: Gnomes Rock Originally by: Bimjo yup allow the pirate back in,and at the same time,to balance things out : 1. triple mission rewards and loot for missioners in empire 2. more valuable stuff for miners to mine in empire 3. complexes/exploration sites that drop officer stuff more regularly for the explorer 4. BPO lottery for builders 5. safe routes from empire to 0.0 for traders 6. triple yield high slots for chribba one item for each type in eve, only fair Because people in empire have such a hard time making isk and defending space as is. hey,the pirate knew the game mechanics before he took that profession,now he wants a change in the rules,I say either NO , or only a YES if the above is implemented. I know lots of non-crybaby pirates who suck it in and accept the game mechanics, and they have an easy life of it in empire making their alt-iskies to support a profession that is only viable for the very few skillfull ones(yes , piracy is probably the most skillfull job in EVE,when done properly, hence why most need another source of income)
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:51:00 - [104] problem is those non crybaby pirates have a 2nd account to carebear for the yarr and ges what some of us dont
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:52:00 - [105] Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 18/11/2008 19:55:37 Originally by: Black Scorpio Metagaming or not, it's still an effort that must be put in, which makes for some sort of a penalty. Doesn't matter if the guy is bending backwards, or just mildly inconvenienced. A penalty would be getting shot in empire and loosing what youve bought, as well as having to pay someone to bring the stuff to you. Having an hauler alt would still be the safer and cheaper solution, unfortunately. Quote: Again, he doesn't have to backup anything, op needs to get up his ass and use the "current game mechanics already in place" to fix his sec status up if he wants to visit high sec in anything else than a pod. Case closed! If that wouldve been eves attitude wed been stuck in eve without battleships, Freighters or better yet more then half of eves current game contend. Lowsec`s current game mechanics need alot of work, and the issue brought up here is one of it.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:53:00 - [106] Originally by: Omarvelous I don't need high sec shopping. I want MORE fights - even if all the game mechanics favor YOU! The only reason I am opposed to this proposed change would be that it rather implies low-sec is broken (which is hardly news I know, since a 2004 player was in Features and Suggestions after a few years away and mentioning the exact same stuff has been going round and round since then). If outlaws have to come to high-sec to get fights, something is wrong. What I have always asked, and still ask today, is what is happening with all the movement of goods from null-sec to high-sec and back. It happens; those high-end minerals don't mine and move themselves; nor do faction and officer items. Why, and I ask this in genuine curiousity, isn't this enough for pirates to prey on? Too few moving? Jump freighters? This ignores the obvious issue that is raging in a nearby thread about why people, particularly non-combat pilots, don't go to low-sec - which seems so far to be boiling down to 'bring friends' on the pirating side and 'if I had the level of organisation and numbers to go to low-sec and deal with trouble/pirates, I'd be in 0.0' on the industrialist side. Nice idea - I just think it sends completely the wrong message. If anything we should have black market hubs like Jita in low-sec for pirates, with fights breaking out, and local 'enforcers' keeping a tenuous peace for the local crime lords - but we don't really, because crime in EVE doesn't seem to work, other than piracy.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:53:00 - [107] Originally by: Po3tank problem is those non crybaby pirates have a 2nd account to carebear for the yarr and ges what some of us dont As far as i'm concerned, this fact helps CCP thus helps the game :P This should then be encouraged, not removed. hah..
Gnomes Rock	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:54:00 - [108] Edited by: Gnomes Rock on 18/11/2008 19:55:54 Originally by: Bimjo hey,the pirate knew the game mechanics before he took that profession,now he wants a change in the rules,I say either NO , or only a YES if the above is implemented. I know lots of non-crybaby pirates who suck it in and accept the game mechanics, and they have an easy life of it in empire making their alt-iskies to support a profession that is only viable for the very few skillfull ones(yes , piracy is probably the most skillfull job in EVE,when done properly, hence why most need another source of income) Even though I don't see the connection between your requests and the OPs, the only change in mechanics would be instead of NPCs killing pirates, it would be high sec dwellers. If a pirate shops in highsec, that just means a player gets the loot instead of the navys. I forgot how adverse people are to risk and fun in a game. Edit; Originally by: Black Scorpio As far as i'm concerned, this fact helps CCP thus helps the game :P This should then be encouraged, not removed. hah.. Help CCP, maybe. Improve the game? For who? Metagaming is lame, it's sad that it's a necessity as it's incredibly boring.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:54:00 - [109] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Originally by: Black Scorpio Metagaming or not, it's still an effort that must be put in, which makes for some sort of a penalty. Doesn't matter if the guy is bending backwards, or just mildly inconvenienced. A penalty would be getting shot in empire and loosing what youve bought, as well as having to pay someone to bring the stuff to you. Having an hauler alt would still be the safer and cheaper solution, unfortunately. Well since CCP won't go against ppl opening more than 1 accounts, little can be done to prevent this. My point was that even if it's so, it is an inconvenience to not be able to go there with your main.
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:55:00 - [110] Originally by: Gnomes Rock Originally by: Bimjo hey,the pirate knew the game mechanics before he took that profession,now he wants a change in the rules,I say either NO , or only a YES if the above is implemented. I know lots of non-crybaby pirates who suck it in and accept the game mechanics, and they have an easy life of it in empire making their alt-iskies to support a profession that is only viable for the very few skillfull ones(yes , piracy is probably the most skillfull job in EVE,when done properly, hence why most need another source of income) Even though I don't see the connection between your requests and the OPs, the only change in mechanics would be instead of NPCs killing pirates, it would be high sec dwellers. If a pirate shops in highsec, that just means a player gets the loot instead of the navys. I forgot how adverse people are to risk and fun in a game. well I take risks and also do stupid things, like go hunting in 0.0 with +5s

Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:56:00 - [111] Originally by: Omarvelous Mind elaborating your pointless flame? How exactly am I lazy? How is ratting NPC's hard work? I don't NEED access to high sec - I'm asking for more fights through out the game. If you want to have your fun, you can work for it, just like everyone else in the game. No, it's not hard (no idea where you got that from), but neither is the work the other people do. Quote: If this were implemented you could play the game EXACTLY as you are now - and you would NOT be affected in the slightest bit. And you can do what you want already, leaving the game EXACTLY as it is right now.
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:58:00 - [112] Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 18/11/2008 19:59:20 Originally by: Black Scorpio Well since CCP won't go against ppl opening more than 1 accounts, little can be done to prevent this. My point was that even if it's so, it is an inconvenience to not be able to go there with your main. No need for a 2nd account, it takes 2 weeks to get a hauler alt up on the same account, at the same time - without it pirates without two chars would have a very very hard time getting ships together, because of the centralized market we have atm, ie. Jita etc. and because markets in lowsec are scarcely filled. edit Ill shamelessly quote myself here since the thread grew so rapidly ;) Quote: Quote: Again, he doesn't have to backup anything, op needs to get up his ass and use the "current game mechanics already in place" to fix his sec status up if he wants to visit high sec in anything else than a pod. Case closed! If that wouldve been eves attitude wed been stuck in eve without battleships, Freighters or better yet more then half of eves current game contend. Lowsec`s current game mechanics need alot of work, and the issue brought up here is one of it. - Boosters and PirateProfessions
charles laforge Freedom From Fear Industries The Second Genesis	Posted - 2008.11.18 19:59:00 - [113] ok so your saying the only reason you want to enter highsec is to possibly get more fights,, and just fights only,, so can you say why you wont consider faction warfare,, or even going to 0.0,, what will empire give that both those cant if your only interested in the fights? just curious as to me you seem to be heading the wrong way ,, literally go grab a coffee,, this could take a while...
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:00:00 - [114] Originally by: Gnomes Rock Edited by: Gnomes Rock on 18/11/2008 19:55:54 Originally by: Bimjo hey,the pirate knew the game mechanics before he took that profession,now he wants a change in the rules,I say either NO , or only a YES if the above is implemented. I know lots of non-crybaby pirates who suck it in and accept the game mechanics, and they have an easy life of it in empire making their alt-iskies to support a profession that is only viable for the very few skillfull ones(yes , piracy is probably the most skillfull job in EVE,when done properly, hence why most need another source of income) Even though I don't see the connection between your requests and the OPs, the only change in mechanics would be instead of NPCs killing pirates, it would be high sec dwellers. If a pirate shops in highsec, that just means a player gets the loot instead of the navys. I forgot how adverse people are to risk and fun in a game. Edit; Originally by: Black Scorpio As far as i'm concerned, this fact helps CCP thus helps the game :P This should then be encouraged, not removed. hah.. Help CCP, maybe. Improve the game? For who? Metagaming is lame, it's sad that it's a necessity as it's incredibly boring. It's better in terms that if CCP has more accounts, they have more resource and hopefully they'll use them to better the game. Also, if metagaming is bad, well don't do it, create contracts in low sec for the things you want brought to you, or use a corpy (if you don't have friends) :P
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:05:00 - [115] Originally by: Bimjo hey,the pirate knew the game mechanics before he took that profession,now he wants a change in the rules,I say either NO , or only a YES if the above is implemented. I know lots of non-crybaby pirates who suck it in and accept the game mechanics, and they have an easy life of it in empire making their alt-iskies to support a profession that is only viable for the very few skillfull ones(yes , piracy is probably the most skillfull job in EVE,when done properly, hence why most need another source of income) Hmmm I wasn't anticipating so much ignorant responses. Current mechanics. You want a fight in high sec. - Flip a can/wreck to get aggression rights. - war dec someone. - suicide attack and get concorded. No one else can interfere or do anything. - Pirate while not allowed to stay for long in high sec with a ship - can: - Still access high sec markets with alt/industrial friends. - Can still travel through high sec in cruiser hulls and smaller and get past police. If you allowed outlaws into high sec - they still can't initiate anything with anyone not outlaw. However others could engage them freely and without npc interference. There would be more fights for those that want them. For those that don't the situation remains the same and harmless. Not being able to FIGHT in high sec is the only thing I'm asking for a change. It would be a great way to bridge pvp for players.
Lillian D'Florite	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:05:00 - [116] Edited by: Lillian D''Florite on 18/11/2008 20:06:08 grind your sec status back up like everybody else. We will let you back in highsec as an outlaw the moment people can go to 0.0 and not be shot at? mkay?
Terraform Gallente Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:11:00 - [117] He's not asking for free passage but more fights? Marvelous, first of all, you're asking for the wrong thing, second of all, it's not high-sec that needs changing, it's low-sec. The solution you're really looking for is "make low-sec more attractive, thus creating a reason to fight over it. You do this, and the fights will come on their own.
Mika Meroko Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:11:00 - [118] I have to say, OP... you got to realize, Sec status, under CCP's vision, MEANS something. aside from "look at me, I am flashy, I am lewt ho ho, you are free to shoot me, ho ho.." your actions have consequences. and the consequence should hurt, not make you have more fun (in this case, stupid newbs ganking flashy to get his arse pwnt by you, your corpmate, etc etc.) I can understand your position in wanting to "spice things up" but it just doesnt really fly with CCP's establishment for eve. one of the intended mechanic for this is that sucide gankers WILL get kicked out of highsec if they cause enough trouble... I dont think they would go for that. and in my personal opinion, as someone who grinded up back from -5.0 and beyond afew times and back... it is NOT that hard to get your sec status back up. Go to NPC pirate 0.0 space for a week and you can get back in highsec again... Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:11:00 - [119] Originally by: Omarvelous There would be more fights for those that want them. Those who want fights already know where to find them. Why would there be more? No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:13:00 - [120] Originally by: charles laforge ok so your saying the only reason you want to enter highsec is to possibly get more fights,, and just fights only,, so can you say why you wont consider faction warfare,, or even going to 0.0,, what will empire give that both those cant if your only interested in the fights? just curious as to me you seem to be heading the wrong way ,, literally B L O B W A R F A R E High sec would have less potential for it - due to carebears/new pvpers being less organized for combat. I have no interest in pos warfare or 0.0 politics. They have completely forgotten its a game played for fun. Factional warfare has limits on ship types involved in plexes. I dont want a turkey shoot against dozens of frigates and destroyers.

Fred Ferrai	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:15:00 - [121] Why do you wana go to Highsec? If it is to aquire items then you have local markets, and if those by chance happen to be missing, build them yourself, it's not the industrialists jobs to provide you after all If it is to aquire targets due to your areas beeing dead then, again, it's your fault so let's count this out If it is to move around with less risk, well, maybe you shoulden't have shoot people at all? I mean, provide us with a proper reason you should be let back in... Otherwise you could just grow some hair ^_^
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:19:00 - [122] Originally by: Omarvelous Hmmm I wasn't anticipating so much ignorant responses. Erm no, most of us are suggesting changes, rather than ignoring your request. You are the ignorant one who only sees his own goals. You won't get anything in this world unless you give in return,remember that before using big words and bad grammar.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:21:00 - [123] Originally by: Fred Ferrai Why do you wana go to Highsec? If it is to aquire items then you have local markets, and if those by chance happen to be missing, build them yourself, it's not the industrialists jobs to provide you after all If it is to aquire targets due to your areas beeing dead then, again, it's your fault so let's count this out If it is to move around with less risk, well, maybe you shoulden't have shoot people at all? I mean, provide us with a proper reason you should be let back in... Otherwise you could just grow some hair ^_^ I have an industrial alt account I made last year for just that reason, I can take care of myself in low sec quite well, and I have little need for high sec markets. It is to acquire more targets. However there is little abuse possible with it because all the game mechanics favor a non-outlaw. Why is this a problem? I can still move about just fine. And I LOVE risk - its why I play this game. My suggestion would make it VERY risky for an outlaw to participate in high sec combat. Instead of NPC's YOU the player could send me on my way in a pod. You guys are incredibly terrified by this suggestion that would do nothing more than give you FREE TARGETS that can't shoot you unless YOU let them!
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:26:00 - [124] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Omarvelous Hmmm I wasn't anticipating so much ignorant responses. Erm no, most of us are suggesting changes, rather than ignoring your request. You are the ignorant one who only sees his own goals. You won't get anything in this world unless you give in return,remember that before using big words and bad grammar. Thank you grammar police. Instead of explaining why my idea is bad, you're attacking a grammatical mistake. My goal is for more combat in eve. It poses practically NO risk to those that DON'T want combat. I've repeatedly explained why this suggestion won't remove the penalties of piracy and low sec status (all the game mechanics favoring the high sec status player). If I need to move now - I can with a pod/shuttle/frigate/cruiser through high sec. Land in the next low sec pocket - pop a cyno and have a carrier bring my bigger ships to play with. If I need to shop - my high sec status industrial alt goes where she needs to get raw supplies for me to make my own gear in low sec and form my own mini-low sec market. Not to mention if I went shopping as an outlaw with my proposal - he would undock and essentially hand local his recent purchases.
Mal Lokrano Gallente LFC Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:26:00 - [125] I see it as this way. Think of it through the Empire's View. You have a outlaw, who has committted various acts of crime, is now in your space. You know he's going to do crime again, but possibly in your high sec space. So Concord takes the initiative and kills the pirate before they can start high sec crime waves. I like the idea but I see it as this way. What would happen if pirates were given high sec rights, sure carebears could fight back, but then what? I'm sure pirates wouldn't care about getting less sec status cause then sec status would lose all purpose (other than just making you blink red). So they would be more willing to fight carebears maybe even suicide carebears much, much, much more frequently. Then the carebears would be at the disadvantage, sure they can band up but then so can the pirates, and either way you stack it 5 carebears won't have a chance against 5 50 mil sp pirates who are only looking for easy loot in highsec. So basicly what I am saying is, if you remove the barrier it would upset the blalance of crime and punishment. Without some sort of punishment for doing crime such as banishment from highsec, then carebears would struggle. Materials might become harder to mine and drive up material prices due to pirates constantly harrasing minsers. Builders might have problems building because researched BPOs and BPCs are becoming haeder to reasearch now than High Sec POSs now can be attacked by experience pirate corps and alliances. Now understand this is all speculation and nothing above is sure to come true, but know this if this were to be implemented, it would upset the game ballance significantly and possibly make non pvp careers much less viable to work with (without some sort of armed guard).
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:30:00 - [126] OP, if a fight is all that you want, i'll point you to a few spots in low sec where you WILL get a fight.. the problem is you might end up losing, but it will be a good fight.. :)
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:32:00 - [127] Edited by: Bimjo on 18/11/2008 20:33:06 Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Omarvelous Hmmm I wasn't anticipating so much ignorant responses. Erm no, most of us are suggesting changes, rather than ignoring your request. You are the ignorant one who only sees his own goals. You won't get anything in this world unless you give in return,remember that before using big words and bad grammar. Thank you grammar police. Instead of explaining why my idea is bad, you're attacking a grammatical mistake. NO NO NO NO ! ! ! ! (Do caps make my statement truer than yours ?) 1. When flaming/insulting someone make sure your Grammar/Spelling is correct,as they will fight back,so don't cry about the reply you get 2. nothing wrong with bad spelling or grammar, as long as you observe point #1 (hell I am terrible at it myself) 3. FORCING YOUR POINT ON US BY USING CAPS is not going to make your point of view any better than everyone elses. 4. Yes , I do agree that you being allowed back into high sec would be a good idea, as long as others also get a treat, why should you be the only one to have your wish ? 5. To reitterate again,nothing wrong with bad Spelling/Grammar,until you start insulting us, or are you a pirate who doesn't like us to fight back ?
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:34:00 - [128] Originally by: Black Scorpio OP, if a fight is all that you want, i'll point you to a few spots in low sec where you WILL get a fight.. the problem is you might end up losing, but it will be a good fight.. :) You are a prime example of everything wrong with this thread, and the people who are killing this game. It took you FIVE pages to get the fact that all he wanted was more fights, which, if you didnt know, are getting near impossible to find in EVE outside fleet fights. CCP has spent the whole year makings sure that your either fighting in laggy FW blobs, laggy 0.0 blobs, or playing gay station docking games with some a$$ hat. The combat level of EVE has dropped a ridiculous amount this year, and your a liar and a fool if you think other wise. I'd support anything that puts the fight back in EVE
Cassandra Valieries	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:36:00 - [129] Originally by: Josef Odinssen No. Because: Gatecampers pretty much close the door to lowsec/nullsec for everything but the most skilled blockade runners. Most of them dont even ask you any questions they just shoot on sight, so its only fair when you come onto carebear turf you get pwned utterly by the concord campers in a way they are completely helpless to avoid/combat. its a taste of your own medicine. drink it like a man. I was about to write something but you sum it up better than I ever could
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:37:00 - [130] Edited by: Black Scorpio on 18/11/2008 20:38:40 Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Black Scorpio OP, if a fight is all that you want, i'll point you to a few spots in low sec where you WILL get a fight.. the problem is you might end up losing, but it will be a good fight.. :) You are a prime example of everything wrong with this thread, and the people who are killing this game. It took you FIVE pages to get the fact that all he wanted was more fights, which, if you didnt know, are getting near impossible to find in EVE outside fleet fights. CCP has spent the whole year makings sure that your either fighting in laggy FW blobs, laggy 0.0 blobs, or playing gay station docking games with some a$$ hat. The combat level of EVE has dropped a ridiculous amount this year, and your a liar and a fool if you think other wise. I'd support anything that puts the fight back in EVE Hahah, you are stupid aren't you. What OP wants is open the door to griefing online and in no way fosters good fights. My last post was b/c it's clear that he DOESN'T want fair fights or fights he would lose. Hence his lame pretext that he "wants fights". So why don't you shut up and let people who know what the OP really wants speak here.. Edit: There's nothing wrong with the game, or at least with the mechanics of pirates going below -5 to not be allowed to high sec. It's worked perfectly so far, and i don't see any reason for changing it. OPs lame attempt at something doesn't even begin to make me think a change is even to be hinted. Got it?

Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:37:00 - [131] Originally by: Sebea CCP has spent the whole year makings sure that your either fighting in laggy FW blobs, laggy 0.0 blobs, or playing gay station docking games with some a$$ hat. …and the OP's suggestion doesn't change this in any way. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:41:00 - [132] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Black Scorpio OP, if a fight is all that you want, i'll point you to a few spots in low sec where you WILL get a fight.. the problem is you might end up losing, but it will be a good fight.. :) You are a prime example of everything wrong with this thread, and the people who are killing this game. It took you FIVE pages to get the fact that all he wanted was more fights, which, if you didnt know, are getting near impossible to find in EVE outside fleet fights. CCP has spent the whole year makings sure that your either fighting in laggy FW blobs, laggy 0.0 blobs, or playing gay station docking games with some a$$ hat. The combat level of EVE has dropped a ridiculous amount this year, and your a liar and a fool if you think other wise. I'd support anything that puts the fight back in EVE DING DING DING! We have a winner!!!! I want more fights outside of fleet combat. I don't want BLOB vs. BLOB. I like nothing more in Even than small gang warfare between 5-6 pilots on each side or less. Its becoming very rare these days, and this suggestion I made was to try to address it. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:43:00 - [133] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Black Scorpio OP, if a fight is all that you want, i'll point you to a few spots in low sec where you WILL get a fight.. the problem is you might end up losing, but it will be a good fight.. :) You are a prime example of everything wrong with this thread, and the people who are killing this game. It took you FIVE pages to get the fact that all he wanted was more fights, which, if you didnt know, are getting near impossible to find in EVE outside fleet fights. CCP has spent the whole year makings sure that your either fighting in laggy FW blobs, laggy 0.0 blobs, or playing gay station docking games with some a$$ hat. The combat level of EVE has dropped a ridiculous amount this year, and your a liar and a fool if you think other wise. I'd support anything that puts the fight back in EVE DING DING DING! We have a winner!!!! I want more fights outside of fleet combat. I don't want BLOB vs. BLOB. I like nothing more in Even than small gang warfare between 5-6 pilots on each side or less. Its becoming very rare these days, and this suggestion I made was to try to address it. Well bro, you're simply doing it wrong then.. there're plenty of fights in low sec, that you obviously are oblivious about that do not involve blob vs. blob.. I'll let those to you to discover, instead of making an ass of yourself on the forums offering stupid ideas of -10's going to Jita and what not.. if you really and truly are trying to get a fight, hit me up in game when i'm on, instead of being an ass on the forums.
Terraform Gallente Recreation Of The World	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:44:00 - [134] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Black Scorpio OP, if a fight is all that you want, i'll point you to a few spots in low sec where you WILL get a fight.. the problem is you might end up losing, but it will be a good fight.. :) You are a prime example of everything wrong with this thread, and the people who are killing this game. It took you FIVE pages to get the fact that all he wanted was more fights, which, if you didnt know, are getting near impossible to find in EVE outside fleet fights. CCP has spent the whole year makings sure that your either fighting in laggy FW blobs, laggy 0.0 blobs, or playing gay station docking games with some a$$ hat. The combat level of EVE has dropped a ridiculous amount this year, and your a liar and a fool if you think other wise. I'd support anything that puts the fight back in EVE DING DING DING! We have a winner!!!! I want more fights outside of fleet combat. I don't want BLOB vs. BLOB. I like nothing more in Even than small gang warfare between 5-6 pilots on each side or less. Its becoming very rare these days, and this suggestion I made was to try to address it. I get what you're saying, I didn't get it the first 2 pages ,but I do now, and i support it, but you're still doing it wrong. Change low-sec, leave high-sec.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:44:00 - [135] While I appreciate your desire to drum up new targets, you've offered no compelling reason to support your change to the high-sec mechanics. It is clearly a benefit to outlaws (a risk of destruction, however high, is still better than guaranteed destruction), and therefore reduces the consequences endured for their crime. You argue that it would carry a benefit for high-sec residents in the form of more targets, yet if high-sec residents wanted more targets, they need only cross into low-sec to find them. One largely negative effect of this would be to encourage suicide ganking, in my opinion. Currently, suicide gankers lose their ship the first few times they try, then eventually lose the right to enter high-sec until they work off the sec status loss. Under your suggestion, the largest consequence (having to rat their way back into good standing) would be replaced with a marginal risk of being shot at as they moved their gank ships into position. Losing an insured ship in exchange for the contents of a hauler or freighter is not enough of a consequence. So no, I don't feel as though reducing the consequences of ganking benefits the game. Nor do I see any sensible reason why CONCORD would ignore the presence of outlaws in high-sec. After all, it's more or less the definition of outlaw... -- Becq Starforged Ushra'Khan The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:47:00 - [136] Originally by: Mal Lokrano good post Congratulations - you have posted a GREAT rebuttal to my OP. It took 5 pages for a good counter argument. My only way to address your concerns is. Having armed guards for peaceful operations - even in high sec would be a GREAT thing. PvP based corporations would have more services to offer people. More demand for ships is a good thing! My industrial alt makes a living in low-sec/0.0 exactly for this purpose - pvp ships and pvp modules are in high demand. resources are fought over and there is a purpose for fighting beyond piracy. If prices went up due to security costs - so what? Its time losing a fully fit BS meant something. Piracy would have value again. Industrialists with a savvy eye for the market could make a killing. As for suicide ganks increasing - my proposal would have Concord shadowing the outlaw the second he entered high sec. The second a hostile act was committed - concord would insta pwn them (whether its 1.0 or 0.5). I don't think you would see many outlaws participating in suicides with such little chance of success and no insurance.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:50:00 - [137] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Mal Lokrano good post Congratulations - you have posted a GREAT rebuttal to my OP. It took 5 pages for a good counter argument. My only way to address your concerns is. Having armed guards for peaceful operations - even in high sec would be a GREAT thing. PvP based corporations would have more services to offer people. More demand for ships is a good thing! My industrial alt makes a living in low-sec/0.0 exactly for this purpose - pvp ships and pvp modules are in high demand. resources are fought over and there is a purpose for fighting beyond piracy. If prices went up due to security costs - so what? Its time losing a fully fit BS meant something. Piracy would have value again. Industrialists with a savvy eye for the market could make a killing. As for suicide ganks increasing - my proposal would have Concord shadowing the outlaw the second he entered high sec. The second a hostile act was committed - concord would insta pwn them (whether its 1.0 or 0.5). I don't think you would see many outlaws participating in suicides with such little chance of success and no insurance. OP, you clearly, do not mean what you say, i.e. that you're looking for more fights, hence you're a troll. Ppl here do not need to counter any of your arguments, because you haven't given any good ones. Again if fights is what you want, please do travel to other regions of low sec. You may have not notices but you CAN travel solely through low sec around the map :P So please travel around and i'm sure you'll get in a few quite good fights if this is really what you're looking for. If not, i see no reason for your post.
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:51:00 - [138] hey OP, treat me with kid gloves here Do the game mechanics allow you to hunt other pilots without it affecting you security status ?(in a negative way) 1. If the answer is NO, then maybe you should be let back in and you have a point. 2. If the answer is YES, then you are doing it wrong, as you can be a pirate and enter high security. Is the answer yes or no ?
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:51:00 - [139] Edited by: The Djego on 18/11/2008 20:56:50 Actualy I would say this is a good idea(ofc a part of me disagrees, since Im dealing with Ships and Items in Low Sec ). Market in Low Sec is kind off bad(still trying to change this since over 6 Month but sill not realy close to what High Sec offers). Because most of the suff from loot is shiped into High Sec where it sells faster and I don¦t know many People that selling especialy Ships in Low Sec. They are bulky and you only can charge a bit more for them before the pirates get her Hauler Chars online and get it herself. Also most people simply won¦t take the risk selling a ship for more profit(like 1.5 M profit from a Cruiser instead of only 300k in the Tradehubs) at a place where you can get shoot and loose your cargo. Main purpose is shopping for Ships and Items anyway, and PVP when you only can shoot back is quite a bit meh(I know, preple try to pop my Trasport Ships with her Killrights ). You are afraid of People that can¦t do the first move in High Sec and even are free for all in Locals that have far more numbers of of People at the gate(Empire Wars anyone) that in Low Sec? Remember if you are Outlaw there is no Concord to save your sorryass even in High Sec...
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:53:00 - [140] Originally by: The Djego Actualy I would say this is a good idea(ofc a part of me disagrees, since Im dealing with Ships and Items in Low Sec ). Market in Low Sec is kind off bad(still trying to change this since over 6 Month but sill not realy close to what High Sec offers). Main purpose is shopping for Ships and Items anyway, and PVP when you only can shoot back is quite a bit meh(I know, preple try to pop my Trasport Ships with her Killrights ). You are afraid of People that can¦t do the first move in High Sec and even are free for all in Locals that have far more numbers of of People at the gate(Empire Wars anyone) that in Low Sec? Remember if you are Outlaw there is no Concord to save your sorryass even in High Sec... So you think once pirates are alowed to go to high sec they'll stop popping your ships?

Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.18 20:54:00 - [141] Edited by: Tippia on 18/11/2008 20:54:34 Originally by: Omarvelous I like nothing more in Even than small gang warfare between 5-6 pilots on each side or less. Its becoming very rare these days, and this suggestion I made was to try to address it. No. Your suggestion does not promote fights between small gangs. It only promotes the same many-vs-one ganks as we've had for ages. By your own description, the poor -10:er will not be able to receive any support, so he's on his own against the attackers, who will attack in larger numbers unless they're stupid. Again, you're saying that it's for people who want to fight, but the problem is that these people already know where to find those fights (making your addition pointless) and they'll know to bring more people to ensure that they win (removing your dream of more small and evenly balanced fights). The only ones I can se benefitting from your suggestion are suicide gankers who can now stay in highsec and go on proper killing sprees without ever having to worry about getting their status back up.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:01:00 - [142] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: The Djego Actualy I would say this is a good idea(ofc a part of me disagrees, since Im dealing with Ships and Items in Low Sec ). Market in Low Sec is kind off bad(still trying to change this since over 6 Month but sill not realy close to what High Sec offers). Main purpose is shopping for Ships and Items anyway, and PVP when you only can shoot back is quite a bit meh(I know, preple try to pop my Trasport Ships with her Killrights ). You are afraid of People that can¦t do the first move in High Sec and even are free for all in Locals that have far more numbers of of People at the gate(Empire Wars anyone) that in Low Sec? Remember if you are Outlaw there is no Concord to save your sorryass even in High Sec... So you think once pirates are alowed to go to high sec they'll stop popping your ships? Im a Pirate myself and I personaly have no problems with the locals, only with some people comming thrue when Im dooing my Hauling. I think you get me wrong, I just trade in Low Sec and do individual Orders so I know how crapy the Market is there. I personaly have no problems hauling stuff in Low Sec. Other People have problems getting suff from Empire when nobody is around to get the things to her place(especialy BCs and BS are ships that are generaly not on the open Market, I pack a full Cargo of BS everytime I do a frighter run because they are this hard to get in Low Sec in general if you/a Corpmate don¦t got a Alt that can fly BS you are basicly screwed).
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:03:00 - [143] Originally by: Black Scorpio Hahah, you are stupid aren't you. and your a giant *got, whats new? Originally by:** Black Scorpio What OP wants is open the door to griefing online and in no way fosters good fights. Your an idiot, with no understanding of the game mechanics, what he's proposing wouldnt allow griefing you low rent ****. He's explained how the game mechanics would work against him, your just so ing ****ed you don't get it. Also, there are not "good fights" in lowsec, just a bunch of station jockey's who dock up when they hit structure.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:03:00 - [144] Originally by: Black Scorpio OP, you clearly, do not mean what you say, i.e. that you're looking for more fights, hence you're a troll. Ppl here do not need to counter any of your arguments, because you haven't given any good ones. Again if fights is what you want, please do travel to other regions of low sec. You may have not notices but you CAN travel solely through low sec around the map :P So please travel around and i'm sure you'll get in a few quite good fights if this is really what you're looking for. If not, i see no reason for your post. I'm tired of your trolling. What about my proposal threatens your gameplay in ANY way shape or form? Yes I realize there are fights all over eve in low sec. A shame I have to travel dozens of star systems to get them at times. My proposal would allow for some fun casual combat in high sec as well. Instead of cynoing out 20 jumps - I could hop over a couple jumps and see if someone or his friends want to take some pot shots at me. As for people's concerns for suicide ganks - I was saying outlaw would instantly shadow you the moment you entered high sec. Aurora wouldn't finish her sentence, 'Your security status has been lowered' before you'd be in your pod. I dont think you would have to worry about outlaw's suicide ganking (you would still have to worry about non outlaws suicide ganking). That's my motive bro. More fights in eve - spicing up high sec from the snooze fest that it currently is. I'm giving carebears some free juicy targets - currently you have to brave low sec gate camps to get your jollies. I want you pick a fight with me in your backyard since you can't survive in my neighborhood.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:07:00 - [145] Originally by: Omarvelous More fights in eve […]. I'm giving carebears some free juicy targets These two sentences are mutually exclusive. How will your suggestion generate more fights?
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:09:00 - [146] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 18/11/2008 20:54:34 Originally by: Omarvelous I like nothing more in Even than small gang warfare between 5-6 pilots on each side or less. Its becoming very rare these days, and this suggestion I made was to try to address it. No. Your suggestion does not promote fights between small gangs. It only promotes the same many-vs-one ganks as we've had for ages. By your own description, the poor -10:er will not be able to receive any support, so he's on his own against the attackers, who will attack in larger numbers unless they're stupid. Again, you're saying that it's for people who want to fight, but the problem is that these people already know where to find those fights (making your addition pointless) and they'll know to bring more people to ensure that they win (removing your dream of more small and evenly balanced fights). The only ones I can se benefitting from your suggestion are suicide gankers who can now stay in highsec and go on proper killing sprees without ever having to worry about getting their status back up. Concord instantly shadows an outlaw entering high sec would be my suggestion. Ive posted that idea a few times now. I DO NOT want to boost suicide ganking. You're right - competant high sec dwellers could spank the outlaw by himself. Maybe outlaws could also participate in war decs and not have their targets vanish into high sec. Other people could crash the party - and you'd haev some interesting fights. War targets would have all of eve as free counter-mercs. More fighting. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:09:00 - [147] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Black Scorpio Hahah, you are stupid aren't you. and your a giant *got, whats new? Originally by:** Black Scorpio What OP wants is open the door to griefing online and in no way fosters good fights. Your an idiot, with no understanding of the game mechanics, what he's proposing wouldnt allow griefing you low rent ****. He's explained how the game mechanics would work against him, your just so ing ****ed you don't get it. Also, there are not "good fights" in lowsec, just a bunch of station jockey's who dock up when they hit structure. Hahah, alright then :P lowsy pirate manufacturing alt :D Are you really that dumb to think people would believe your idiotics or maybe you are that dumb to believe them. Pick one and stfu
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:12:00 - [148] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Black Scorpio OP, you clearly, do not mean what you say, i.e. that you're looking for more fights, hence you're a troll. Ppl here do not need to counter any of your arguments, because you haven't given any good ones. Again if fights is what you want, please do travel to other regions of low sec. You may have not notices but you CAN travel solely through low sec around the map :P So please travel around and i'm sure you'll get in a few quite good fights if this is really what you're looking for. If not, i see no reason for your post. I'm tired of your trolling. What about my proposal threatens your gameplay in ANY way shape or form? Yes I realize there are fights all over eve in low sec. A shame I have to travel dozens of star systems to get them at times. My proposal would allow for some fun casual combat in high sec as well. Instead of cynoing out 20 jumps - I could hop over a couple jumps and see if someone or his friends want to take some pot shots at me. As for people's concerns for suicide ganks - I was saying outlaw would instantly shadow you the moment you entered high sec. Aurora wouldn't finish her sentence, 'Your security status has been lowered' before you'd be in your pod. I dont think you would have to worry about outlaw's suicide ganking (you would still have to worry about non outlaws suicide ganking). That's my motive bro. More fights in eve - spicing up high sec from the snooze fest that it currently is. I'm giving carebears some free juicy targets - currently you have to brave low sec gate camps to get your jollies. I want you pick a fight with me in your backyard since you can't survive in my neighborhood. I told you, you opened a can of worms attracting me to your thread :P So explain to me how your idea of a good fight will happen with what you propose then.. so you sit in low sec ... bored.. then decide to get to high sec to pick a fight.. you jump through the gate.. what then.. please explain how you propose things are going to roll after you go through the gate so you pick up a fair fight...
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:13:00 - [149] Edited by: Sebea on 18/11/2008 21:13:53 Originally by: Black Scorpio Hahah, alright then :P lowsy pirate manufacturing alt :D Yes, you have me, your right, I am a "lowsy pirate manufacturing alt".. Originally by: Black Scorpio Are you really that dumb to think people would believe your idiotics or maybe you are that dumb to believe them. Pick one and stfu I assumed you weren't this stupid, but i went ahead and reported all your personal insults that you've made on all these forums today, enjoy your ban. Come back and hang out when your old enough to talk with the adults. Also, reading up on game mechanics may help you if you ever need to "discuss" something again EDIT: Originally by: Black Scorpio please explain how you propose things are going to roll after you go through the gate so you pick up a fair fight... He did, several times, I guess your 8th grade reading comprehension skills just missed it
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:13:00 - [150] Originally by: Omarvelous Maybe outlaws could also participate in war decs and not have their targets vanish into high sec. Other people could crash the party - and you'd haev some interesting fights. War targets would have all of eve as free counter-mercs. I.e. more blobs; more many-on-one fights. And you can still have what you want within the existing mechanics of the game, so why is the change needed? No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.

NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:16:00 - [151] Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:17:13 1st. Black Scorpio, your an idiot who doesn't understand a squat about what PVP is and how the PVP mechanics works. And you haven't readed much about what Omarvelous have been writing about the PVP mechanics. And you seems to be way to stupid to understand what he's telling. You only thing omg a pirate in high sec, welp. Let the peace heaven(risk free carebear heaven) be peace / carebear heaven. Anyone that fail to see what Omarvelous are talking about in this topic doesn't know much about EVE. Sadly but true. 2nd. Omarvelous, i fully support your idea. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:17:00 - [152] Originally by: Sebea Edited by: Sebea on 18/11/2008 21:13:53 Originally by: Black Scorpio Hahah, alright then :P lowsy pirate manufacturing alt :D Yes, you have me, your right, I am a "lowsy pirate manufacturing alt".. Originally by: Black Scorpio Are you really that dumb to think people would believe your idiotics or maybe you are that dumb to believe them. Pick one and stfu I assumed you weren't this stupid, but i went ahead and reported all your personal insults that you've made on all these forums today, enjoy your ban. Come back and hang out when your old enough to talk with the adults. Also, reading up on game mechanics may help you if you ever need to "discuss" something again EDIT: Originally by: Black Scorpio please explain how you propose things are going to roll after you go through the gate so you pick up a fair fight... He did, several times, I guess your 8th grade reading comprehension skills just missed it Yes i know for sure you are the alt pirate manufacturer you are. Your ban threats are laughable as you were the one that started to insult me. As for the 8th grade, certain individuals like you play dumb to get people to agree to their ridiculously stupid suggestions, and then play smart.. yeah i know it doesn't go well for those with brains.. so good bye alt/troll. Just keep manufacturing for your pirate alts cause it seems you aren't getting much action with them anyway :PP
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:18:00 - [153] Edited by: Black Scorpio on 18/11/2008 21:19:02 Originally by: NightmareX 1st. Black Scorpio, your an idiot who doesn't understand a squat about what PVP is and how the PVP mechanics works. And you haven't readed much about what Omarvelous have been writing about the PVP mechanics. And you seems to be way to stupid to understand what he's telling. You only thing omg a pirate in high sec, welp. Let the peace heaven be peace / carebear heaven. Anyone that fail to see what Omarvelous are talking about in this topic doesn't know much about EVE. Sadly but true. 2nd. Omarvelous, i fully support your idea. Hahah, well based on your ridiculous blabbing i'm fully convinced he's right then, hahah.. PS: Are tri so desperate to cry for their -10's to go to high sec? Ofc you're supporting the op, you're all bunch of blobbing -10's anyway :P
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:20:00 - [154] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Omarvelous Maybe outlaws could also participate in war decs and not have their targets vanish into high sec. Other people could crash the party - and you'd haev some interesting fights. War targets would have all of eve as free counter-mercs. I.e. more blobs; more many-on-one fights. And you can still have what you want within the existing mechanics of the game, so why is the change needed? It offers a venue for some casual combat in high sec that is currently unavailable. If its not your cup of tea then don't participate, the outlaw can't initiate anything. It would allow for more bounty hunting in this game. A pirate could particiapte in more high sec pvp activities. How will my idea negatively affect high sec? It just adds a chance for some more high sec shooting for people that are outlaws. I like being an outlaw - I like the challenge. I can still move through eve as I need, but I think its silly I have to lose my outlaw status to be able to engage in any activity in high sec. Let me in - and YOU the player have all the game mechanics at your disposal to kick me out (or at least try ). * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:20:00 - [155] Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:21:16 Originally by: Black Scorpio Hahah, well based on your ridiculous blabbing i'm fully convinced he's right then, hahah.. PS: Are tri so desperate to cry for their -10's to go to high sec? Ofc you're supporting the op, you're all bunch of blobbing -10's anyway :P And your babbling about welp a pirate in high sec must really be a stupid idea is any better?. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:22:00 - [156] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:21:16 Originally by: Black Scorpio Hahah, well based on your ridiculous blabbing i'm fully convinced he's right then, hahah.. PS: Are tri so desperate to cry for their -10's to go to high sec? Ofc you're supporting the op, you're all bunch of blobbing -10's anyway :P And your babbling about welp a pirate in high sec must really be a stupid idea is any better?. Are you babbling about the fact that you can't get any fights except for high sec? B/c op is apparently trying to get more fights there.. I didnt' know Tri is that desperate for fights :P
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:23:00 - [157] Originally by: Black Scorpio Yes i know for sure you are the alt pirate manufacturer you are. Really, who's my main? Originally by: Black Scorpio Your ban threats are laughable as you were the one that started to insult me. Really? I got this from page 3: Originally by: Black Scorpio What's fine is for you to get back to your gate camp and stfu, was i clear enough for you this time? You seem to not be able to comprehend it otherwise... sure does look like your insults started in a basically civil discussion Originally by: Black Scorpio As for the 8th grade, certain individuals like you play dumb to get people to agree to their ridiculously stupid suggestions, and then play smart.. yeah i know it doesn't go well for those with brains.. so good bye alt/troll. Just keep manufacturing for your pirate alts cause it seems you aren't getting much action with them anyway :PP what does this mean!?!?!?!
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:27:00 - [158] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:21:16 Originally by: Black Scorpio Hahah, well based on your ridiculous blabbing i'm fully convinced he's right then, hahah.. PS: Are tri so desperate to cry for their -10's to go to high sec? Ofc you're supporting the op, you're all bunch of blobbing -10's anyway :P And your babbling about welp a pirate in high sec must really be a stupid idea is any better?. Are you babbling about the fact that you can't get any fights except for high sec? B/c op is apparently trying to get more fights there.. I didnt' know Tri is that desperate for fights :P Ehh lol, i'm not telling about that i can't get fights. I'm telling you how stupid you are for not understanding what we are talking about in this topic. But keep going, for each reply your just getting more and more stupid and hilarous. BTW, i was even a PVP'er before your character was made. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:28:00 - [159] Originally by: Omarvelous It offers a venue for some casual combat in high sec that is currently unavailable. Why does it need to be in high-sec? Casual combat can be had without this mechanism. Quote: It would allow for more bounty hunting in this game. Not really. The amount of bounty hunting depends on the number of pirates, and that doesn't change with your suggestion. The entire BH system needs revamping from the ground up anyway, and needs to survive outside of these constraints. Quote: A pirate could particiapte in more high sec pvp activities. They already can. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:30:00 - [160] Edited by: Sebea on 18/11/2008 21:31:19 Originally by: Tippia Why does it need to be in high-sec? Casual combat can be had without this mechanism. Quote: No, it really can't, casual combat is pretty much gone from EVE

Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:32:00 - [161] Originally by: NightmareX BTW, i was even a PVP'er before your character was made. Well then that for certain proves that you have won the forums and EvE, NightmareX..
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:33:00 - [162] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Black Scorpio As for the 8th grade insult, certain individuals like you play dumb to get people to agree to their ridiculously stupid suggestions, and then play smart.. yeah i know it doesn't go well for those with brains.. so good bye alt/troll. Just keep manufacturing for your pirate alts cause it seems you aren't getting much action with them anyway :PP what does this mean!?!?!?! This you playing dumb and calling the other guy 8th grader!
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:33:00 - [163] Technically, you can go to highsec as an outlaw as long as you: a.) keep moving, and b.) have a modi****of a tank. When FW was introduced, the factional police were changed so that they no longer warp scramble you. In fact, they will web you into warp if you are in a large ship. They will also shoot at you, which is why you need a tank, and any players who happen to be nearby can still scramble you. I know I made about 20 jumps or so through highsec in recons while I was ratting up my sec status, and I never once lost a ship.
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:34:00 - [164] LOL Nightmare X dealing out some pain with the logic stick... only problem is he's holding it at the wrong end... Anyway, OPs idea sounds good, I very much like the idea of pirates being able to enter high sec and me being able to nail them as soon as I see them. Unfortunately, this isn't what would happen. Instead, the mechanic would be xploited and you'd find big pirate blobs making everyone's lives a misery. Unless the proposal is that the pirates can't fight back? How about that? Yes, pirates can come into high-sec, but you are killable by anyone and all your weapons are disabled. That fact that no pirate would want this will tell you how pure their motives are in the matter. It's not about getting access to high-sec, it's about getting access to more tears.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:34:00 - [165] Originally by: Black Scorpio This you playing dumb and calling the other guy 8th grader! Your honestly telling me that if you read that out loud it makes sense to you?
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:34:00 - [166] Originally by: Sebea No, it really can't, casual combat is pretty much gone from EVE Maybe that's because people don't actually want it as much as we would like them to want it… It can be had — people just choose not to engage in it. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:35:00 - [167] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Black Scorpio This you playing dumb and calling the other guy 8th grader! Your honestly telling me that if you read that out loud it makes sense to you? You bet. You don't get it? Hm.. i'm sure a highly intelligent creature like you would have been able to develop a clue by now.. :P
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:37:00 - [168] Originally by: Sebea Edited by: Sebea on 18/11/2008 21:31:19 Originally by: Tippia Why does it need to be in high-sec? Casual combat can be had without this mechanism. Quote: No, it really can't, casual combat is pretty much gone from EVE AHAHAHAHHAHAH, Casual combat has gone from EvE AAHAHAHHAHA. Your friend here Nightmare X would surely know, only way they do things is by blobbing, learn to play instead of blaming other people they don't know game mechanics, rookie.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:37:00 - [169] Originally by: Tiirae LOL Nightmare X dealing out some pain with the logic stick... only problem is he's holding it at the wrong end... Anyway, OPs idea sounds good, I very much like the idea of pirates being able to enter high sec and me being able to nail them as soon as I see them. Unfortunately, this isn't what would happen. Instead, the mechanic would be xploited and you'd find big pirate blobs making everyone's lives a misery. Unless the proposal is that the pirates can't fight back? How about that? Yes, pirates can come into high-sec, but you are killable by anyone and all your weapons are disabled. That fact that no pirate would want this will tell you how pure their motives are in the matter. It's not about getting access to high-sec, it's about getting access to more tears. Im thinking you didn't read something. Just because pirates come to high sec, doesn't mean they get to pirate in high sec. They are still bound by all the laws of high sec, and still bound by all the aggression laws. There is no real way to circumvent this, if they fire on a ship unlawfully, concord still blows them up. If they rep a pirate, they are still flagged (and in the right situation, blown up by concord). This actually wouldn't really hurt ANYTHING in the age of a million alts.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:38:00 - [170] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Sebea No, it really can't, casual combat is pretty much gone from EVE Maybe that's because people don't actually want it as much as we would like them to want ità It can be had ù people just choose not to engage in it. I roam solo, ALOT, and what i find to be the constant is that people A) dock when close to death B) jump back through gates C) call in massive numbers of support.

Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:39:00 - [171] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Tiirae LOL Nightmare X dealing out some pain with the logic stick... only problem is he's holding it at the wrong end... Anyway, OPs idea sounds good, I very much like the idea of pirates being able to enter high sec and me being able to nail them as soon as I see them. Unfortunately, this isn't what would happen. Instead, the mechanic would be xploited and you'd find big pirate blobs making everyone's lives a misery. Unless the proposal is that the pirates can't fight back? How about that? Yes, pirates can come into high-sec, but you are killable by anyone and all your weapons are disabled. That fact that no pirate would want this will tell you how pure their motives are in the matter. It's not about getting access to high-sec, it's about getting access to more tears. Im thinking you didn't read something. Just because pirates come to high sec, doesn't mean they get to pirate in high sec. They are still bound by all the laws of high sec, and still bound by all the aggression laws. There is no real way to circumvent this, if they fire on a ship unlawfully, concord still blows them up. If they rep a pirate, they are still flagged (and in the right situation, blown up by concord). This actually wouldn't really hurt ANYTHING in the age of a million alts. No I think you are reading in the wrong lines.. and pretending a guy is altruistically trying to have himself offered as a benevolent target for the masses.. I call this BS, as is anyone with brains. Go back to grinding your sec status up, like everyone else.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:39:00 - [172] I still dont see any reason why the penalties for low sec status should be made lower. When gateguns are improved we can talk about this. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:39:00 - [173] Originally by: Black Scorpio EDIT clean up your mis-guided attempt at replying and mesing up the post. Ill do my part, if you do yours by deleting all the gibberish you've spewed on here today.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:40:00 - [174] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Sebea No, it really can't, casual combat is pretty much gone from EVE Maybe that's because people don't actually want it as much as we would like them to want ità It can be had ù people just choose not to engage in it. I roam solo, ALOT, and what i find to be the constant is that people A) dock when close to death B) jump back through gates C) call in massive numbers of support. What did you expect, for them to stay out there for your enjoyment?
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:40:00 - [175] Sorry, no remorse for anyone whining about the lack of targets because they've killed so many they can't enter high-sec. Maybe if Pirates took the idea to not shoot and kill everything that thinks about entering low sec they'd have more kills over time then culling the population into never leaving high-sec. It appears you may have accepted the becoming a pirate and having to live in low-sec, but don't get all ****y when no one wants to be in the same space as you. Amarr for Life
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:41:00 - [176] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Black Scorpio EDIT clean up your mis-guided attempt at replying and mesing up the post. Ill do my part, if you do yours by deleting all the gibberish you've spewed on here today. You can consider it done, as long as you try to push ridiculous ideas and sugar coat them for the masses. We both know this suggestion is meant to benefit only outlaws, and i do not see any reason it should be allowed.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:41:00 - [177] Originally by: Black Scorpio Go back to grinding your sec status up, like everyone else. Wait, didn't you call me the "production alt of a pirate"? If that's the case, I shouldn't need to grind up my sec status
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:43:00 - [178] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Sebea No, it really can't, casual combat is pretty much gone from EVE Maybe that's because people don't actually want it as much as we would like them to want ità It can be had ù people just choose not to engage in it. I roam solo, ALOT, and what i find to be the constant is that people A) dock when close to death B) jump back through gates C) call in massive numbers of support. A. do not engage near stations, or don't let them get to one B. do not engage them near gates, or don't let them get to one C. You are taking too long ====================
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:43:00 - [179] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Black Scorpio Go back to grinding your sec status up, like everyone else. Wait, didn't you call me the "production alt of a pirate"? If that's the case, I shouldn't need to grind up my sec status Your main then, you get the point. I thought we'd be stopping with the bite-ful remarks
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:45:00 - [180] Originally by: Black Scorpio What did you expect, for them to stay out there for your enjoyment? Actually yes, since the entire point of the "nano nerf" was to make people have consequences for engaging. If you shoot me, you better be sure that your ready to engage, because your not supposed to be able to just back out of combat with ease. If you need me to, I can link you dozens of posts sighting THAT EXACT REASON for the nano nerf, from the devs themselves. So yes, basically, you are supposed to sit there, thats half the "content" of the QR expansion

Game Ruiner	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:46:00 - [181] btw why do you actually need this combat to be in hi-sec??? TBH i agree with CCP stance that you should be "punished" for your crimes, if you go round podkilling and ganking in hi-sec you should pay some social price for that either: 1: fiscally. you lose every isk you have in your bank account to your victim. 2: loss of liberty: you get "sinbinned" for anything from 1 hour of gametime to 1 week or whatever depending on your "criminal record" 3: you get relegated to the dregs of society i.e lowsec. Being able to commit crimes that cost you security status and get away with it and carry on regardless is not really a discouragement to people committing crimes, otherwise i would be out in Jita right now murdering everything in sight. cause/effect. The punishment for your errant ways is losing your hi-sec liberty. you have to "rehabilitate" your crimes by ratting and serve your debt to society. As eve stands there is no "criminal justice system". you commits your crime and you escape. therefore when the faction police spot you they "punish you" on the spot for your past crimes, that is unless you "rehabilitate" for those crimes. I would be happy to let you back into hisec however if you were forced to trade your security status increase for isk to your victims, that is a more real world price for your liberty, otherwise im content for concord to pwn your ass on behalf of the poor noobs you pirated. its a simple word, you may understand the concept if you were ever a victim. its called JUSTICE
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:46:00 - [182] Originally by: Bimjo A. do not engage near stations, or don't let them get to one B. do not engage them near gates, or don't let them get to one C. You are taking too long You realize that A and B ammounts to about 80% of the combat in EVE right?
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:47:00 - [183] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Bimjo A. do not engage near stations, or don't let them get to one B. do not engage them near gates, or don't let them get to one C. You are taking too long You realize that A and B ammounts to about 80% of the combat in EVE right? Only for those who don't know how to use a scanner ====================
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:47:00 - [184] Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:49:56 Anyways, there is not really a point by telling Black Scorpio anything here, because he doesn't understand what PVP is and doesn't understand what we are telling here. Just ignore him and just talk about what the topic is about. Stinky carebears who just want to live in a carebear heaven where the word PVP is so extremely disgusting and forbidden should just stick to their stinky NPC whoring and sucks on asteroids all day long. I'm in for everything that makes more risk and PVP in EVE. As long it's in a good way, like the OP here have a point on. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:50:00 - [185] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Bimjo A. do not engage near stations, or don't let them get to one B. do not engage them near gates, or don't let them get to one C. You are taking too long You realize that A and B ammounts to about 80% of the combat in EVE right? Then take his option 2 for A and B he posted, i.e. don't get them get to one. Unfortunately with the recent Web changes that would be somewhat difficult for a BS pilot (i assume you fly one of these if you solo) but if you employ 2x web you might be able to catch a BS before they can get to gate, same with stations that throw you out to a good 5+ km off.. I just don't see how being able to go to high sec, resolves, or helps you with any of these.. it's going to be the same in high sec. Only thing you'll try to do is bait other ppl into attacking you off stations/gates at best.. or can flipping.. I don't see how your planning to get other fights w/o wardecs..
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:51:00 - [186] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:49:56 Anyways, there is not really a point by telling Black Scorpio anything here, because he doesn't understand what PVP is and doesn't understand what we are telling here. Just ignore him and just talk about what the topic is about. Stinky carebears who just want to live in a carebear heaven where the word PVP is so extremely disgusting and forbidden should just stick to their stinky NPC whoring and sucks on asteroids all day long. I'm in for everything that makes more risk and PVP in EVE. As long it's in a good way, like the OP here have a point on. Talking in third person is really creative you know that.. Also, why are you still posting, we already established you have won the forums and EvE...
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:51:00 - [187] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:49:56 Anyways, there is not really a point by telling Black Scorpio anything here, because he doesn't understand what PVP is and doesn't understand what we are telling here. Just ignore him and just talk about what the topic is about. Stinky carebears who just want to live in a carebear heaven where the word PVP is so extremely disgusting and forbidden should just stick to their stinky NPC whoring and sucks on asteroids all day long. I'm in for everything that makes more risk and PVP in EVE. As long it's in a good way, like the OP here have a point on. By the way Nightmare you are an idiot, for thinking i'm a carebear :P
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:52:00 - [188] Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:53:53 Originally by: Black Scorpio Also, why are you still posting, we already established you have won the forums and EvE... If i have won now, then why are you replying to me then?. And you say your not a carebear Black Scorpio?, then for ** sake stop acting like a stupid carebear moron who doesn't know ** about PVP mechanics. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:52:00 - [189] Originally by: Bimjo Only for those who don't know how to use a scanner I said 80%, so yea, i can use a scanner, that would be the other 20%, but tbh, in lowsec, its not even a scanner, its scan probes, to find the 4 mission runners in all of EVE who still do lowsec missions (slight exageration). Nobody rat's in lowsec, and like 2 guys mine, once a year in lowsec, so its mission runners, who you either catch, on a gate, on a station. Other pirates who WANT to fight, you always catch here, theres no reason to scan for them, unless they are in pounce spots, and then your better off with probes. Please tell me how im wrong in stating that 80% of the combat, in lowsec, occurs on a gate or station, where current game mechanics favor letting you just run from the fight?
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:52:00 - [190] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:51:53 Originally by: Black Scorpio Also, why are you still posting, we already established you have won the forums and EvE... If i have won now, then why are you replying to me then?. I feel so good replying to the winnar.. :)

Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:52:00 - [191] Originally by: NightmareX Anyways, there is not really a point by telling Black Scorpio anything here, because he doesn't understand what PVP is and doesn't understand what we are telling here. But OP just proved to me he isn't much of a pirqate,since when is 1v1 piracy about tackling them at stations or gates ? Originally by: NightmareX Just ignore him and just talk about what the topic is about. Woah ! so we are only allowed to tell you what you want to hear ? total each poster and you will see you are in the minority here, but that doesn't mean we are right so grow up and allow us our opinions Originally by: NightmareX Stinky carebears who just want to live in a carebear heaven where the word PVP is so extremely disgusting should just stick to their stinky NPC's and sucks on asteroids all day long. this is a rant from a 12 year old, up to now you were scoring points, you lost it all here ====================
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:54:00 - [192] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Bimjo Only for those who don't know how to use a scanner I said 80%, so yea, i can use a scanner, that would be the other 20%, but tbh, in lowsec, its not even a scanner, its scan probes, to find the 4 mission runners in all of EVE who still do lowsec missions (slight exageration). Nobody rat's in lowsec, and like 2 guys mine, once a year in lowsec, so its mission runners, who you either catch, on a gate, on a station. Other pirates who WANT to fight, you always catch here, theres no reason to scan for them, unless they are in pounce spots, and then your better off with probes. Please tell me how im wrong in stating that 80% of the combat, in lowsec, occurs on a gate or station, where current game mechanics favor letting you just run from the fight? Sebea you're in the wrong regions of low sec :), no offense bro... but it seems so. Also what's so bad about fighting other .. pirates.. most of the time they pack quite good loot as well.. ofc, they also fire back so i see your point..
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:55:00 - [193] Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:49:29 Anyways, there is not really a point by telling Black Scorpio anything here, because he doesn't understand what PVP is and doesn't understand what we are telling here. Just ignore him and just talk about what the topic is about. Stinky care bears who just want to live in a care bear heaven where the word PVP is so extremely disgusting and forbidden should just stick to their stinky NPC whoring and sucks on asteroids all day long. I'm in for everything that makes more PVP in EVE. As long it's in a good way, like the OP here have a point on. See there is a small problem here, as a care bear I want to take my products I make to low sec to allow you to continue to pirate and kill everyone. I don't care who you kill or how many you kill. Some care bears are there to help you do your job more efficiently, however that concept doesn't allow me to get past gate camps in a freighter with 400,000m3 of ammo. So instead of losing all my stuff to a pirate that wants to kill everything I don't bother going into low-sec. I just sell my stuff at a slightly lower cost at boarder systems. I want to supply the pirates but they don't let me help them by supplies good products at a reasonable price away from everyone else. Amarr for Life
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:55:00 - [194] Allthough people got problems with me saying it, i will keep using it: Nightmare, you got issues... I am carebeary in high sec. Sometimes i go to low sec to pew pew. Well i always am in low sec if i have the isk, but my carebear side is strong on me so i get faction fitting for my mission ships so i need to carebear to make isk again. Anyway in low sec i am basicly only in one system, there are quite some fights, many of them consensual. I only shoot -5 or lower pirates, or self defense. Barely fighting on gates happens, most pirates use small ships so they cant even tank the gateguns, but it is also lame and boring to gatecamp. We do sometimes fight on stations, but not that often. If fighting happens at a station everyone realises that people can deagress and dock, that is the game. But usually those at a station are not intrested in fighting. Quite often for example me (+5.0) and a couple of -10 pirates are just hanging arround at a station, almost everyone can shoot each other, but it is guaranteed dead for those who start fighting (since they will be killed by the others), so it doesnt happen often. But in the meantime we are just chatting and watching scanner. Where the combat does happen is in the belts. And there happens quite some combat in those belts. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:56:00 - [195] Welp, look at all of the attacks of the angry carebears who are desperatly trying to have high sec as the Carebear Heaven status. NEVER NEVER EVER let a pirate into empire because that will destroy the amazing Carebear Heaven status of high sec. . Yes i'm just having fun with all of you. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:57:00 - [196] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Bimjo Only for those who don't know how to use a scanner I said 80%, so yea, i can use a scanner, that would be the other 20%, but tbh, in lowsec, its not even a scanner, its scan probes, to find the 4 mission runners in all of EVE who still do lowsec missions (slight exageration). Nobody rat's in lowsec, and like 2 guys mine, once a year in lowsec, so its mission runners, who you either catch, on a gate, on a station. Other pirates who WANT to fight, you always catch here, theres no reason to scan for them, unless they are in pounce spots, and then your better off with probes. Please tell me how im wrong in stating that 80% of the combat, in lowsec, occurs on a gate or station, where current game mechanics favor letting you just run from the fight? Sebea you're in the wrong regions of low sec :), no offense bro... but it seems so. Also what's so bad about fighting other .. pirates.. most of the time they pack quite good loot as well.. ofc, they also fire back so i see your point.. PS: I prefer to call them PvP-ers or opportunists. I know only few who are solely using 1 char and are -10 for their entire eve career...
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:58:00 - [197] Edited by: Black Scorpio on 18/11/2008 22:02:02 Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:57:36 Welp, look at all of the attacks of the angry carebears who are desperatly trying to have high sec as the Carebear Heaven status. NEVER NEVER EVER let a pirate into empire because that will destroy the amazing Carebear Heaven status of high sec. . Yes i'm just having fun with all of you. And i got issues?, lol, i think all of you that doesn't understand one single word of what the OP here is telling have 859674897 times bigger issues. As are we with you Nightmare :) (having fun that is...) but please the winnar should not be wasting such valuable time poasting on teh forums, instead you whould go own some more in your blobb, or in your pimped out faction BS.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:59:00 - [198] Why do rats exist in high sec? Shouldn't faction police insta spawn to them and kill them on site? There would be no asteroid rats in high sec. If concord and police can find me in a high sec deadspace complex - why can't they find the NPC rats and kill them? They clearly are criminals too and should be banned from high sec. NO NPC rats in high sec. Only in low-sec/0.0 should npc rats exist. If rats exist in hgih sec - so should I. Hell they don't get concorded for attacking innocent people!!!!
Speculative Sally	Posted - 2008.11.18 21:59:00 - [199] I'm pretty sure part of why we play EVE is because it has consequences, your easy-mode request would remove consequences from your actions. Also, in other news, WoW is that way ------------>
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:00:00 - [200] The simple answer is that it makes no sense from a role-play perspective. Metagaming aside - why wouldn't the security forces, Concord etc. shoot an outlaw on sight? Of course they would! Of course, I'm all for the idea of a more sensible Concord that you can fight and escape which means in some ways I sort of support the idea. But it should be hard to do and require cleverness and tricksy pirate stuff and shouldn't always work. ie no 'Works every time' solutions. If the pirates figure out a good way, Concord and the Empire security forces should eventually slam that loophole and force them to search for another. There should also be skills and the like to impersonate, etc. and the ability for folks to 'call the cops'. So I guess I support it but not the way the OP put it forth.

Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:03:00 - [201] Originally by: Omarvelous Why do rats exist in high sec? Shouldn't faction police insta spawn to them and kill them on site? There would be no asteroid rats in high sec. If concord and police can find me in a high sec deadspace complex - why can't they find the NPC rats and kill them? They clearly are criminals too and should be banned from high sec. NO NPC rats in high sec. Only in low-sec/0.0 should npc rats exist. If rats exist in hgih sec - so should I. Hell they don't get concorded for attacking innocent people!!!! You mean you failed to make your main point so you figure you're going to adulterate the topic with additionally and incidentally weaker suggestions? No dice.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:04:00 - [202] Originally by: Bimjo But OP just proved to me he isn't much of a pirqate,since when is 1v1 piracy about tackling them at stations or gates ? You realize im not the OP right? Also, if I'm so wrong, prove it to me, show me some statistical information, fraps, something that says your using your directional scanner to get good fights in low sec, off gates and stations. I KNOW ABOUT SCANNING DOWN MISSION RUNNERS, your a liar if you say your getting those guys with your directional scanner. Don't just tell me I'm wrong, show me with actual proof, otherwise, your just spouting words. I'm sticking by my statement that 80% of combat in lowsec occurs on gates and stations, and with the gay game mechanics, those fights rarely result in actual kills, be it the target pirate, or otherwise.
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:05:00 - [203] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom The simple answer is that it makes no sense from a role-play perspective. Metagaming aside - why wouldn't the security forces, Concord etc. shoot an outlaw on sight? Of course they would! Of course, I'm all for the idea of a more sensible Concord that you can fight and escape which means in some ways I sort of support the idea. But it should be hard to do and require cleverness and tricksy pirate stuff and shouldn't always work. ie no 'Works every time' solutions. If the pirates figure out a good way, Concord and the Empire security forces should eventually slam that loophole and force them to search for another. There should also be skills and the like to impersonate, etc. and the ability for folks to 'call the cops'. So I guess I support it but not the way the OP put it forth. Yes, new skills, "All Sneaky Like" modifier of x20, will lower the chance of detection by concord by 10%.. for a total of 50% :)
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:09:00 - [204] Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 18/11/2008 22:09:06 Didnt see much threads go downhill as fast and hard as this one went. Absolutely caod worthy and the posters in it dont even seem to notice how ridisulous its gotten, but keep entertaining the rest plz. - Boosters and PirateProfessions
Cyber Blue Gallente Cyber Blue Consulting	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:10:00 - [205] Wooh, read the whole thread finally. It seems that one of the main things pirates want is to be able to pursue war targets into hi-sec. Is this correct? I believe one of the main arguments against this is the fact that a whole lot of hi-sec dwellers do not care at all about attacking another player. Why would they want to allow pirates into hi-sec? Criminals that could surely find some way to bother them. Even if it is just more can-flipping. Furthermore, another problem they have is the destruction of immerison factor. It's not very realistic that known pirates would be allowed anywhere near hi-sec. That being said, the idea may need some looking into. If I remember correctly, CCP is looking for a way to allow the policing of low-sec by players. Perhaps it is just a matter of pirates waiting for this to happen. Once this is in place, maybe some aspects of it could be implemented into hi-sec. I'm going to think about it some more. In the meantime, please provide some more ideas, pirates. If you can point out more benefits to hi-sec dwellers besides "more fights", which many of them do not care about, they may listen more. End of line...
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:11:00 - [206] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 18/11/2008 22:09:06 Didnt see much threads go downhill as fast and hard as this one went. Absolutely caod worthy and the posters in it dont even seem to notice how ridisulous its gotten, but keep entertaining the rest plz. We've done our best to show how ridiculous it should have been from the beginning but there were a few who refused on the first few tries.. \o/
Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:11:00 - [207] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Bimjo But OP just proved to me he isn't much of a pirqate,since when is 1v1 piracy about tackling them at stations or gates ? You realize im not the OP right? Also, if I'm so wrong, prove it to me, show me some statistical information, fraps, something that says your using your directional scanner to get good fights in low sec, off gates and stations. I KNOW ABOUT SCANNING DOWN MISSION RUNNERS, your a liar if you say your getting those guys with your directional scanner. Don't just tell me I'm wrong, show me with actual proof, otherwise, your just spouting words. I'm sticking by my statement that 80% of combat in lowsec occurs on gates and stations, and with the gay game mechanics, those fights rarely result in actual kills, be it the target pirate, or otherwise. move along, nothing to see here, re read my post and you'll see I was reffering to the OP,which you are not,but you seem confused ? ====================
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:12:00 - [208] like everyone here is saying, lol cant do the time dont do the crime, think of being restricted to low sec as being in "prison" so to speak, if your on good behavior you get out earlier, lol harsh world Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:13:00 - [209] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Bimjo A. do not engage near stations, or don't let them get to one B. do not engage them near gates, or don't let them get to one C. You are taking too long You realize that A and B ammounts to about 80% of the combat in EVE right? Only for those who don't know how to use a scanner people dont tend to travel from one end of the system to the other by going through the asteroid belts and planets Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:14:00 - [210] Originally by: Bimjo but you seem confused ? Its been a long day

Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:23:00 - [211] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Bimjo but you seem confused ? Its been a long day heehee hey,if anything ,this thread proves we are passionate about EVE
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:26:00 - [212] Quote: Couldnt pursue them if I committed a crime in low sec - Concord would still bbq me. Thats fine - the target could still escape with my request. A lot of the carebear responses I'm getting in this thread show me you guys have NO CLUE how pvp works in this game. I am NOT introducing non-consentual pvp into high sec. I STILL won't be able to gank you unless I want to lose my ship to concord. If you dont want to fight - YOU DONT HAVE TO!!!! You could see some flashy outlaws in high sec - and they couldnt do anything to you unless you decided to engage them. You could just pass them by and NOTHING would happen. But if they engaged you first you wouldn't have a GCC and they'd be flashy red to you, right? Also if they engaged you first you could then run to high sec if you were camping a low sec-high sec gate? I'm not buying that being flashy red in high sec is a massive disadvantage since there's a fair amount of PVP that revolves around being flashy red on purpose in high sec. Also as I say, not being able to travel through high sec is a real inconvenience for pirates. I'm not sure my brain is up to working out what removing that would mean. Probably more people day tripping into low sec to PVP for a bit?
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:26:00 - [213] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Bimjo but you seem confused ? Its been a long day heehee hey,if anything ,this thread proves we are passionate about EVE :)
Slade Trillgon Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:52:00 - [214] What if pilots maintaining low sec status lost all protection from CONCORD, lost all rights too protection from corp mates when a non-war target attacks them for being a pirate in high sec, but restrict it to -5 to -.01 pirates? I also want to derail into bounty hunting options but I will refrain from that Slade Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine. ≡v≡
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:58:00 - [215] Im going to ignore the trolling and ask why are rats allowed in high sec? Look at the last page where I asked this. Why can't a similar system be in place for players. Outlaws ought to be allowed to fly in high sec and defend themselves vs players without NPC assistance. The game has given YOU all the advantages in dealing with an outlaw in high sec - what more can you want?! You are KOS to all of eve, and you cannot initiate a criminal act without concord destroying you and no insurance. I think its ludicrous that an NPC pirate can operate in high sec - and attack miners at belts, attack you in missions. Yet a player outlaw can't so much as step foot in high sec without being swarmed by NPC police. My suggestion will do NOTHING to those that have no interest in pvp. It will however give those in high sec a desire to pvp a good chance at it. Infact - pirates could attack other pirates in high sec as well - high sec players could in turn attack both sides. Think of the possibilities! I always thought it would be cool if pirate faction agents existed in low sec and could give you cool smuggling/criminal missions (maybe have another use for those NPC drugs, or maybe you could haul and trade boosters) to bring into high sec. High sec players could then engage you and screw up your mission. The roles would be reversed! I've said it a thousand times in this thread. I already have and accept the consequences of my actions: - Everyone can shoot me freely and pod me. - Sentry guns/concord will NEVER assist me. - My corpmates are not allowed to assist me. - If I were stupid enough to purchase a battleship in high sec and fit it out - I would be swarmed and destroyed. I would STILL use a high sec alt for my shopping needs. You know what? I'll make it even easier. An outlaw entering high sec could have a beacon on them (you could set your overview to show this). You could tell where they are at ALL times if they're undocked. You could warp to that beacon and dispose of the outlaw if you wanted to. You could then police your own high sec in much the same way the NPC police do. I want more options and diversity in this game. High sec is a snooze fest - my suggestion would spice it up a little. With NO risk to someone who doesn't want to participate. Its WIN freakin' WIN for non-outlaws!!! * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 23:05:00 - [216] Edited by: Omarvelous on 18/11/2008 23:05:39 Originally by: Davina Braben But if they engaged you first you wouldn't have a GCC and they'd be flashy red to you, right? Also if they engaged you first you could then run to high sec if you were camping a low sec-high sec gate? I'm not buying that being flashy red in high sec is a massive disadvantage since there's a fair amount of PVP that revolves around being flashy red on purpose in high sec. Also as I say, not being able to travel through high sec is a real inconvenience for pirates. I'm not sure my brain is up to working out what removing that would mean. Probably more people day tripping into low sec to PVP for a bit? Yes they would - I could engage freely in self defence. Yes I could pursue them into high sec with my proposal. - You can't shoot first. Everyone else can shoot at you first. - Concord/Sentries will NEVER assist you. - Your corpmates cannot remote rep or provide ewar assistance. - Your corpmates have no rights to attack your aggressor unless the aggressor attacks them too. How are those reasons ALONE not MASSIVE disadvantages to an outlaw? Currently travel from one place in eve to another with high sec in the way for a pirate consists of. - Hop in shuttle/pod/frigate/cruiser - travel to destination. - Have friend/alt in carrier store larger ships/mods/ - Light cyno for carrier pilot to move your goods. OR - Alt in freighter loads up your battleships and moves them to low sec for you under your protection when coming through into low sec. Day trips to low sec means passing through the gate camps that carebears whine about ALL the time. Now outlaws can be shot at in your neck of the woods - where you could setup a gate camp - without sentry fire so you could setup a FAR more effective one. Why wouldn't you want that?! * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Goyda Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 00:14:00 - [217] I think it's a good idea. I have no concern for my sec status, and for those who think using an alt is alot of work, well what's the diff than me flying myself there. If I'm flash red in high sec where why would I use this char to fly goods out ? I mean that makes no sense. And if I'm going to do it with this char, why would it be more work for me to use an alt....I think this is a good idea, however I have no desire to go to high sec. I always wondered why there were NPC pirates in high sec, that does make little sense.
Souvera Corvus Gallente SPORADIC MOVEMENT FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.11.19 00:36:00 - [218] Edited by: Souvera Corvus on 19/11/2008 00:36:37 Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Furb Killer No Your choice to be a pirate, accept the consequences. Do you wet yourself a little when someone goes flashy on your overview? Quote: No, I think 'Target'.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.19 00:37:00 - [219] Originally by: Omarvelous Im going to ignore the trolling and ask why are rats allowed in high sec? Look at the last page where I asked this. Why can't a similar system be in place for players. Outlaws ought to be allowed to fly in high sec and defend themselves vs players without NPC assistance. The game has given YOU all the advantages in dealing with an outlaw in high sec - what more can you want?! You are KOS to all of eve, and you cannot initiate a criminal act without concord destroying you and no insurance. I think its ludicrous that an NPC pirate can operate in high sec - and attack miners at belts, attack you in missions. Yet a player outlaw can't so much as step foot in high sec without being swarmed by NPC police. My suggestion will do NOTHING to those that have no interest in pvp. It will however give those in high sec a desire to pvp a good chance at it. Infact - pirates could attack other pirates in high sec as well - high sec players could in turn attack both sides. Think of the possibilities! I always thought it would be cool if pirate faction agents existed in low sec and could give you cool smuggling/criminal missions (maybe have another use for those NPC drugs, or maybe you could haul and trade boosters) to bring into high sec. High sec players could then engage you and screw up your mission. The roles would be reversed! I've said it a thousand times in this thread. I already have and accept the consequences of my actions: - Everyone can shoot me freely and pod me. - Sentry guns/concord will NEVER assist me. - My corpmates are not allowed to assist me. - If I were stupid enough to purchase a battleship in high sec and fit it out - I would be swarmed and destroyed. I would STILL use a high sec alt for my shopping needs. You know what? I'll make it even easier. An outlaw entering high sec could have a beacon on them (you could set your overview to show this). You could tell where they are at ALL times if they're undocked. You could warp to that beacon and dispose of the outlaw if you wanted to. You could then police your own high sec in much the same way the NPC police do. I want more options and diversity in this game. High sec is a snooze fest - my suggestion would spice it up a little. With NO risk to someone who doesn't want to participate. Its WIN freakin' WIN for non-outlaws!!! You should update your op with some of this juicy goodness, cause its got a lot of ideas that are good, and follows CCP's want to "give players the tools" bits. Its an idea that could use work, and polish, but its pretty good, and could bring some fun back into a game thats grinding down. If you remember the privateer wars, those, those were fun! There was fighting everywhere, constantly, and it was awesome. Ever since that went away, it felt like EVE lost a little something
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.19 01:05:00 - [220] aw man you have me in tears, its so damn obvious that oma is your char youre one special brand of moron unbelievable - Boosters and PirateProfessions

Xipheas Evolving Strategies	Posted - 2008.11.19 01:07:00 - [221] This is quite an interesting topic when you filter out all the idiotic flaming, name calling, pyramid quoting and all-round r etardedness in the last 8 pages and look at the sum total of, what, 5 posts that have any real content in them. It seems to me that the problem being faced is that there are no decent small-gang fights in Low-sec any more. I think this is mainly due to the effective and pervasive choke-point gate camps that have been going on for so many years practically non-stop, to be honest. My solution for low-sec Pirates to get more fights would be to stop camping the choke point gates, and allow more people to fly into low-sec. Then nobody would need to change any game mechanics, you wouldn't need an 8 page thread of stupidly banging heads against brick walls trying to explain the obvious, and at the end of the day the pirates could still have their tasty carebear tears when that low-sec mission lewt got popped 2 gates from the safety of high-sec. Just a suggestion :) No insurance for outlaws getting concorded should really be a no brainer tbh. It would also stop the odd bad-loser pirate from jumping into highsec to suicide their drake instead of giving the killmail to the people who jumped into their camp and deserved to get it (don't laugh, an ex-alliance mate did this once ). The issue with allowing outlaws into highsec is this, as I see it. Noobs might engage you, and you will pretty much insta-pop them. As most skilled players will do with noobs. Then there are the carebears who will go 'oh, flashy red, an opportunity to gank him' but will do so in their mission-fit ships, which gives you a nice pay day and an easy victory again. And you are also assuming that in this carebear heaven, people will actually be communicating with one another like you do in your effective corps and alliances. This is not going to be the case, you will not get multiple people attack you straight off the bat - you'll appear, and then individuals will attack you in dribs and drabs in ill-fit ships with no support for about 30 minutes. It's not going to be 'good fights', it's going to be like level 1 missions, where the worst part is travelling to the wrecks to salvage and loot, and finding nothing but crap in there. I see what you're saying, and I like why you're trying to do it, but imo this suggestion will not get you the epic small gang fights you want. I think it will just get you epic slaughter of one noob after another after another, which is neither fun nor profitable.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.11.19 01:22:00 - [222] Cleaned. Please stay on-topic and do not get sidetracked by discussion about posting styles. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.11.19 01:35:00 - [223] OP you choose your life of crime now you must live with the consinquences. Weekend pirates are not real pirates.
Lasus Tarheel Mining	Posted - 2008.11.19 02:00:00 - [224] At first glance your idea seems to have merit. However one thing I have learned by playing EVE is, if there is a way to exploit something it will happen. Suicide ganking would increase. Lowering of sec rating probably stops a lot of it. Also pod killing would increase, making ransoming harder to do. I am sure I have not thought of all the ways your idea could be abused. I also dont think you would get more fights. I mean if I saw you flashing red my poor combat skills would preclude me from attacking you regardless of how many people were attacking you. Pain n An unpleasant feeling or sensation usually caused by the good fortune of another
Nalar Marnith Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.11.19 02:59:00 - [225] Without supporting this one way or the other... Would be cool if you got gate/sentry aggro instead of faction police. Would force us evil pirates to fly something half decent to avoid getting insta'd by gates/stations (more guns than lowsec). Would also prevent suicide ganking in anything less than a BC. Having to use alts to bring ships through is a minor annoyance at best, additionally it actually makes it EASIER for us to get ships at lower risk. That said, they way things are now is no big deal, so either way.
Sulora Amarr Eve Liberation Force Liberty.	Posted - 2008.11.19 03:12:00 - [226] I agree with the OP that this would be a nice feature to add. No risk to those who don't want to pvp, but allows the pirate(s) to not have to use an alt to buy their crap. Although I like a previous poster's idea of only allowing this in .5 - .7 systems. I'm not a pirate btw, I live in 0.0, but I like this idea.
Mistress Frome SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.11.19 03:26:00 - [227] Originally by: Lasus At first glance your idea seems to have merit. However one thing I have learned by playing EVE is, if there is a way to exploit something it will happen. Suicide ganking would increase. Lowering of sec rating probably stops a lot of it. Since when is suicide ganking a bad thing? Quote: Also pod killing would increase, making ransoming harder to do. Don't really see how the number of pods killed in eve affects your ability to extract money from a target in the least. Quote: I am sure I have not thought of all the ways your idea could be abused. Tbh it doesn't seem like there'd be much room for abuse. Outlaws would still suffer from the same drawbacks as they did before. Only difference you wont have to run from the police while in hisec. Quote: I also dont think you would get more fights. I mean if I saw you flashing red my poor combat skills would preclude me from attacking you regardless of how many people were attacking you. You may not. Others might. And if another person gets a fight, then the outlaw also does whether or not he wants it >_>
Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.11.19 03:38:00 - [228] I've been a fan of this idea forever (even before I decided to go pirate). I do think, however, that the OP's reasons are flawed. The pirate would just get blobbed. Everywhere. Pirate gets fight -> Other people see him -> Pirate gets blobbed 50 to 1 If anything, hardly anything will change in game. Maybe the less traversed lanes will get travelled, but I can tell you that I wouldn't go into high sec. Go mission in high sec? Yea... right.... Soon as I undock, 50 friggin CNR's start firing. Insta-pop. Buy stuff in high sec? Sure.. undock, explode, redock, re-purchase my items. Sorry, but I have a freighter alt to do all of my industrial stuff. PS: For the people that say this makes no sense RP-wise.. well, by that logic, it doesn't make sense for pirate NPC's to be in high sec either then. So can we has all missions moved to low sec? Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
Ballamahamabad Madas	Posted - 2008.11.19 03:49:00 - [229] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:49:29 Anyways, there is not really a point by telling Black Scorpio anything here, because he doesn't understand what PVP is and doesn't understand what we are telling here. Just ignore him and just talk about what the topic is about. Stinky care bears who just want to live in a care bear heaven where the word PVP is so extremely disgusting and forbidden should just stick to their stinky NPC whoring and sucks on asteroids all day long. I'm in for everything that makes more PVP in EVE. As long it's in a good way, like the OP here have a point on. See there is a small problem here, as a care bear I want to take my products I make to low sec to allow you to continue to pirate and kill everyone. I don't care who you kill or how many you kill. Some care bears are there to help you do your job more efficiently, however that concept doesn't allow me to get past gate camps in a freighter with 400,000m3 of ammo. So instead of losing all my stuff to a pirate that wants to kill everything I don't bother going into low-sec. I just sell my stuff at a slightly lower cost at boarder systems. I want to supply the pirates but they don't let me help them by supplies good products at a reasonable price away from everyone else. Wrong. I have dealings with several pirate corporations allowing safe travel. Ya know that politics goes beyond 0.0, right? NBSI = piracy, and all pirates that I've met never shoot blues... except for the Goons.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2008.11.19 03:50:00 - [230] As an outlaw, personally I don't think its a good idea. If I need to go into high sec, I prepare and I have no issues whatsoever. Other than when I do that, there is no reason for me, or the majority of the outlaw population to be hanging around in high sec imho. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats

Korizan	Posted - 2008.11.19 04:21:00 - [231] I think not. This effectively means a person / group of people could suicide gank anybody of there choosing for as long as they want. Secondly considering the average member of high-sec does not know how to PvP. This is essentially throwing the fox into the chicken coop.
Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.11.19 05:05:00 - [232] I love when people say this idea gives free access to suicide ganking when YOU DO NOT GET INSURANCE FOR GETTING CONCORDED IF YOU ARE AN OUTLAW (if this was implemented) Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.19 05:35:00 - [233] I went shopping in Jita today. Bought a HAC and a Recon. Moved them through 6 nearby highsec systems to a lowsec one. I'm -4.2. Just sayin'.
Matting NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.11.19 05:57:00 - [234] I really like this idea, a lot of good points have been brought up and dealt with. There is slight risk that a newer player will attack a big pirate ship BUT everyone else can join in too. I think itÆs great as a MMO to encourage empire members to be the police instead of our current system of NPC navy as the real police are concord. I feel EVE has grown to a membership level where this is possible too where as a couple years ago empire was a bit more quiet. I think your reason for getting good fights as someone else mentioned is not quite right, you would get blobbed a lot. I think it would help have a general scary presence around the universe which has gotten a bit softer and too fluffy. The perception would help the atmosphere of the game while not affecting players who donÆt want to participate in it. IÆll agree with who ever said about limiting it to .7/.8 space which ever level is the last to have NPC rats in it. I canÆt really see any exploits that can be done and IÆm sure if this were to be implemented CCP would quickly ban and patch it. As a pirate you can already travel through high sec, thanks to the navy in some cases even in big ships (correct me if this has recently changed). This change would actually make it MORE dangerous to travel is an outlaw and I canÆt see any pirates really moving expensive ships around as they are too vulnerable to attack. Pretty much what Feng Schui said about the negatives for pirates. I really see this as all pros to a game that supposably encourages PVP and hopefully would get people a taste for killing earlier on. The only semi valid argument I saw after ignoring those who donÆt understand GCC and aggression was the penalty for being ônaughtyö I think the penalty is very hard at the moment and as others have mentioned it wonÆt let pirates operate in empire like nothing happened. Suicide attacks wonÆt really work as you need to wait around for a long time waiting for the right ship to attack, these are normally busy areas which have a lot of PVPers around them. If they did have shadow concord/navy then this would also help prevent flashys causing trouble but even without they could increase the response time for -5 aggressors to make it impossible maybe. Empire war deccing corps would love hunting these people down and also good for part time pirates who go to low sec for a bit of fun. I know I would attack any flashy around empire, it would be quite fun and I can even get corpies or random players to help. I can also see some nice griefing to be had in my alts falcon. Remember the outlaw CANNOT get help from anyone. Please poke holes ( :/ ) in my rambling.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 06:02:00 - [235] Originally by: Dianeces I went shopping in Jita today. Bought a HAC and a Recon. Moved them through 6 nearby highsec systems to a lowsec one. I'm -4.2. Just sayin'. Planet IV insta.
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 06:29:00 - [236] The Op really does have a solid idea here. There's a few reasons and he has pointed them out numerous times to all the carebears/trolls/flamers and general whiners. 1. It won't affect you if you don't want it to. 2. It will allow players to police their beloved high sec rather than NPC navies doing it for them. (CONCORD will always be needed to police up noob gankers and what not). 3. As the OP has pointed out, game mechanics make it so that anyone, ANYONE, assisting a pirate will be flagged and dealt with by CONCORD. 4. This system would boost the bull**** version of bounty hunting CCP currently has in place. For all those that are seriously in opposition and not just flaming/trolling, take not that the OP has stated multiple times that this is NOT about travel or ease of access to the high sec market. Personally, I think from a roleplay POV, pirates shouldn't be able to access the market in high security (a CONCORD controlled entity, SCC to be precise). This could also help to push for an official "black market" interface within the game (an idea I've seen tossed around by players a few times now). On a side note, CCP mentioned at Fanfest that they want players to start policing low sec via game mechanics (a viceroy I think they stated?). This could very well be an extension of said idea. I fully support and endorse this idea. This is an MMO that is greatly run by its players. Give the players a bit more control and have them enforce the law on their own. Anyway, that's my 2 isk. Good idea op and ignore the trolls/flamers. I'm not a pirate, have been ganked on countless gatecamps and really like this idea. It has potential; go with it.
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.19 06:34:00 - [237] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Dianeces I went shopping in Jita today. Bought a HAC and a Recon. Moved them through 6 nearby highsec systems to a lowsec one. I'm -4.2. Just sayin'. Planet IV insta. Police don't care where you are, they'll spawn on grid with you.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.19 06:48:00 - [238] I'll ask again, would the OP let people go to 0.0 space without the danger of being attacked, say, with CONCORD escort?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.19 06:58:00 - [239] Originally by: Feng Schui I love when people say this idea gives free access to suicide ganking when YOU DO NOT GET INSURANCE FOR GETTING CONCORDED IF YOU ARE AN OUTLAW (if this was implemented) No, it was not implemented, as you should know if you read the patch notes. Next whine please.
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.19 07:01:00 - [240] Originally by: Omarvelous I want more options and diversity in this game. High sec is a snooze fest - my suggestion would spice it up a little. With NO risk to someone who doesn't want to participate. If you don't like the snooze fest, why do you want to go back into it? Sounds to me like you want suicide gankers never to have the problem that's associated with a low sec rating. It also sounds like you're after free targets, ie: noobs who don't fully understand the game yet. Quote: Its WIN freakin' WIN for outlaws!!! Fix'd I fail to see how this would be a win for non-outlaws. The win is the current method of seeing you get your ass handed to you on a plate by police then, taking out your pod for the bounty before you can get to the gate to jump back out of the system. There are currently already ways you can get back into highsec if you want to. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again

EspionageX Perkone	Posted - 2008.11.19 07:37:00 - [241] Heh, what you outlined is acceptable. Although I can see how you can abuse your oh so shiny flashy red-ness against noob players who don't know better - perhaps mandatory lock out of starter systems?
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.19 07:43:00 - [242] Originally by: Dantes Revenge Originally by: Omarvelous I want more options and diversity in this game. High sec is a snooze fest - my suggestion would spice it up a little. With NO risk to someone who doesn't want to participate. If you don't like the snooze fest, why do you want to go back into it? Sounds to me like you want suicide gankers never to have the problem that's associated with a low sec rating. It also sounds like you're after free targets, ie: noobs who don't fully understand the game yet. Quote: Its WIN freakin' WIN for outlaws!!! Fix'd I fail to see how this would be a win for non-outlaws. The win is the current method of seeing you get your ass handed to you on a plate by police then, taking out your pod for the bounty before you can get to the gate to jump back out of the system. There are currently already ways you can get back into highsec if you want to. Way to totally not grasp a single argument presented in the whole thread, that must have taken effort
Cyber Blue Gallente Cyber Blue Consulting	Posted - 2008.11.19 08:27:00 - [243] Well, I had a long post, then lost it. That ***es me off, oh well. Short version. I believe your argument has merit, however, I am not convinced of how it should be set up. Would outlaws be able to move around more without the need for carriers/freighters? Yes. Explain this more for me, in case I ever become a pirate. Doesn't your alt do everything in high-sec already? Would the outlaws' friends get GCC and concord for remote assitance? Yes. Wouldn't you get tired of coming into high-sec alone and getting popped quickly? NPC pirate factions seem to have bases of operation in high-sec deadspace areas. This would explain why they are there and not to mention, they are there to give people something to do. I do not see them at gates or stations or anywhere else in high-sec but belts and missions. I had some ideas of ownership of deadspace for smuggling operations and what not. The ownership gave benefits to pirates or whoever owned them. For example, pirate friends can help each other as long as that deadspace is owned by them. Other people owning a deadspace stopped other people from entering their missions. Which I'm not sure why people can go into someone elses' mission anyways. Damn, I know next time to copy the text just in case. Too sleepy to try and think up all of it and write it again. End of line...
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.19 08:31:00 - [244] Personally i probably would enjoy it if outlaws actually went to high sec, wouldnt be station hugging and docking every time a non rookie attacked them, and besides that were just targets i can attack without seeing local spike immediatly. However lets stay realistic. OP can keep telling that he doesnt want to make travelling through high sec easier, it would still be the result. And i dont think it should be easier. Many rookies would open fire and then be killed by the piwates, without any chance to win. Suicide gankers could continue their stuff without having to worry about sec status. You cant do it when you want to suicide gank a freighter, but with weapons grouping it shouldnt be so hard to alpha strike an industrial. So then concord that shadows you wouldnt make a difference. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.19 08:43:00 - [245] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Sebea No, it really can't, casual combat is pretty much gone from EVE Maybe that's because people don't actually want it as much as we would like them to want it…It can be had — people just choose not to engage in it. I roam solo, ALOT, and what i find to be the constant is that people A) dock when close to death B) jump back through gates C) call in massive numbers of support. And that is exactly my point. The reason we're not seing a lot of casual combat right now is not because the mechanics don't allow for it, or because opportunities don't exist — it's that, apparently, people aren't interested in it (in a very general sense). The proposal does nothing to adress this lack of interest and the exceptions to this general rule — the ones who'd actually make use of such a change — don't need it because they can find or arrange fights even without it. So I don't see how it would improve anything, whereas I do see how it would make griefing far easier (the kinds of griefing that actually exist in the game, rather than the standard "waaah, he attacked me for no reason!1"-whines). No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Lionel Redstar	Posted - 2008.11.19 09:14:00 - [246] I agree with OP. Pirats have no gain from this except they are not shoot by the NPC police. The are still valid targets for players and will not be saved by concord. P.S. I bet that at least half of those who said it's a bad ideea are the same ppl who whine about low-sec gatecamps
Venduras	Posted - 2008.11.19 09:25:00 - [247] CONCORD response time would have to be greatly reduced towards outlaws, as they could suicide gank endlessly even at -10 in high-sec.
Durty Nell Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.19 10:54:00 - [248] I understand your points and the arguments you use to back them up. A guy from Ushra Khan gave a nice post earlier which you either ignored or somehow missed in the rabble. Any way even at that IÆm still a bit confused. The thing is my friend why would these people want to change the existing system? As it stands they can shoot a Blinky Red in any system from 0.0 to 0.4 and from 0.5 to 1.0 with impunity should they chose to hunt. It would appear to me that there would be absolutely no reason from the bearÆs perspective. This is where the confusion lays for me, what benefit, if any, do the bears get if such a plan was implemented?
TrulyKosh Gallente Solo for UNCLE	Posted - 2008.11.19 11:07:00 - [249] Edited by: TrulyKosh on 19/11/2008 11:36:00 Edited by: TrulyKosh on 19/11/2008 11:35:03 Originally by: Omarvelous Right now - a high sec player wanting to fight an outlaw - has to travel into low sec through gate camps and fight on the pirates' terms - I'm offering you guys a chance to fight on your terms! Most likely "your terms" would would mean you hanging out cloaked at a gate in your arazu, waiting to suicide juicy t1 haulers. Sorry, but wasn't a large part of past patches designed to get rid of that kind of thing? No need to bring it back. Other than that ... what's to stop the pirate's corp to war dec all the player corps in high sec with 1000s of potential targets which would normally be way out of reach because they never ever enter low sec? Once war is declared, all the fluffy game mechanics working in favor of the carebear cease working as intended, because the pirate is in a place where he should not be (and actively worked his way out of).
Prodigy Systems	Posted - 2008.11.19 11:31:00 - [250] Fail post. Fail pirate. You have to realise, if you are a piece of ***t, you better get used to living in a toilet.

Ratchman	Posted - 2008.11.19 11:55:00 - [251] I have no problem with the idea of outlaws being able to travel through high-sec (I'd like the option of hunting them down when they intrude), but you have to counter the suicide gank, and I'm not sure anyone has effectively solved that. It could be that any outlaw fleet is instantly ganked by concord upon entering, or formation in high-sec, thus preventing group organisation, but that doesn't stop the individual from doing that. Maybe if it can be made so it is just impossible for the outlaw to initiate combat (disabled keys or some other alternative). Perhaps they could only use weapons once fired upon, and only against their attacker. It's a thorny problem, and the reason pirates were prevented from entering highsec in the first place was because of suicide ganking, so an effective counter must be provided if this is to change. There does seem to be an awful lot of outlaw v carebear hate in here,and it is about time you all learned not to judge everyone with brush strokes. Not all carebears are PVP shy. I love PVP, and frequently indulge in factional warfare and dip into 0.0 now and again. Conversely, not all pirates are gatecampers and suicide gankers. There is enough to be annoying at those lowsec chokepoints, but they are only a percentage of the whole. Learn to appreciate that people play in different ways, and they both fill a niche in the game. Without carebears, there would be little in the way of economy, and without pirates, there would be little risk (and therefore excitement).
Rozoq	Posted - 2008.11.19 12:08:00 - [252] Edited by: Rozoq on 19/11/2008 12:35:04 Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Lady Karma Edited by: Lady Karma on 18/11/2008 17:57:44 Originally by: Omarvelous OK I'll meet you halfway. Anyone with a sec status lower than what the system allows would be free to shoot at by anyone with a high enough sec status. -2.5 player goes to 1.0 system. Status changes from yellow to flashy red (no GCC - just local killrights). High sec status gives you all the game mechanics in your favor then! I'm still puzzled as to how you think that will benfit your gameplay. People that don't want to shoot you, wont shoot you. The only benefit would be that you can shop in high sec without the hassle of moving your BS back to low sec. The motive for your change seems to be your own laziness. You did admit you cba to sec up Laziness motive reinforced by Po3tank Think it through. Will I an outlaw go shopping in high sec? HELL NO! ie. I go to Jita to buy and fit up my ship. Sweet - I got it and I'm going to undock... BUT WAIT! 200 people undocked see me (outlaw) undocked in his ship. Seeing that they have free rights to shoot me and POD me, and that my corp mates cannot not assist me in anyway I die horribly. I dont want to shop with my outlaw character. I have an industrial alt to take care of all my high sec shopping needs. I in turn manufacture all my - and my corp's needs in low sec. I don't need high sec shopping. I want MORE fights - even if all the game mechanics favor YOU! You know gate campers noob killers ummm i mean pirates such as yourself really give way too much credit to yourselves in the world of EVE.. so what you pop a few few shuttles or drunk players pffft!! You are not a bad guy your just actually an anchor tied around this games neck most are ready to move on a have a combat system worthy of EVE but it will never happen cause of players like you, and really you think like 200 players in Jita would even care or notice most would just have some pve set up and you could prolly escape without too much worry.. I look at low sec like this.. every friday after work i come home and take a shower then walk across a park to this bar on the other side when im sober its pretty easy to not step in Dog Sh!t but every once in while when im really smashed on my way home ill step in some and its sucks but oh well i guess. Low sec for me is just a walk in that park going to 0,0 then going through it again to get back home generally wasted, and you would be the thing i step in from time to time..I for the most part dont care what or how people play there game but this sounds like as if you have broke your toy and wonder why nobody wants to play.... have fun!! Another thing is everyone i know from carebear to alliance 0,0 people are sick of the gate camp thing and blobs are getting pretty old the thing is that most 0,0 people would prolly love to see blobs go bye bye and get into some good fights while on the other hand if CCP ever tried to fix the gate camp thing you guys would all ragequit and have to go back to WoW to corpse camp cause your game here would be over i couldnt imagine most of you actually having to hunt for your kills!! thanx for holding us back and making them keep a lame system in game.. But all and all we do need pirates and i respect that and i do go play with them sometimes and there are few that really just want a good fight and i enjoy that(props to some of the UPS guys in amarr low sec) but most just want to camp and really it just seems like a pathetic system for such a cool game..
Troezar Fatality. United Federation of Capsuleers	Posted - 2008.11.19 12:27:00 - [253] Let's face it CCP of old saw EVE as a niche PVP game, in fact it was the whole reason for EVE. More and more carebears flooded in and now it is seen as a cash cow. PVP especially non concensual threatens the cash flowing in hence PVP is getting harder. I'm betting if removal of PVP would double the income it would disappear tomorrow...the old EVE will never return
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.19 12:29:00 - [254] Originally by: Troezar Let's face it CCP of old saw EVE as a niche PVP game, in fact it was the whole reason for EVE. More and more carebears flooded in and now it is seen as a cash cow. PVP especially non concensual threatens the cash flowing in hence PVP is getting harder. I'm betting if removal of PVP would double the income it would disappear tomorrow...the old EVE will never return Want some cheese with that whine? --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
Troezar Fatality. United Federation of Capsuleers	Posted - 2008.11.19 12:34:00 - [255] Furb you are so original I would expect it though from a 12yr old No whine just the facts, it's a business I don't expect any changes for just me. More fights would be fun but there is a reason I and lots of others hang around still. Eve is a good game just not as fun as it was but us optimists keep hoping one day it might be... As an aside I used to love seeing M0o around back in the day, used to crap myself as a noob That was fun!
Rozoq	Posted - 2008.11.19 12:39:00 - [256] Edited by: Rozoq on 19/11/2008 12:40:56 Originally by: Troezar Furb you are so original I would expect it though from a 12yr old No whine just the facts, it's a business I don't expect any changes for just me. More fights would be fun but there is a reason I and lots of others hang around still. Eve is a good game just not as fun as it was but us optimists keep hoping one day it might be... As an aside I used to love seeing M0o around back in the day, used to crap myself as a noob That was fun! I dunno i think the PVP thing makes EVE what it is... scary as a noob and actually gets your heart pounding but as of late with blobs and gates its more like blah!! I dont think anyone has a problem getting killed in a fight but who actually fights now days?
Mashie Saldana Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.11.19 12:49:00 - [257] I see the advantage to kill more outlaws in highsec, however it would also bring suicide ganking to an all new level as those specialised in that can keep on doing it more or less as before without a real penalty.
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2008.11.19 13:04:00 - [258] **************** The reason high sec npc pirates are allowed in high sec without concord intervention is because the npc pirates are at war with the empires and concord does not interfere with war decs. **************** ----------------------------------------------- "I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation."
Lord Zoran House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.11.19 13:12:00 - [259] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Omarvelous I think it would be neat to allow outlaws to come back into high sec without faction police shooting them on site. Would concord still attack if the pirate commits a crime? Yes - infact response times vs outlaws could be enhanced (concord shadowing you). Would players still be allowed to freely agress AND pod kill the outlaw? Yes. Would outlaws be able to move around more without the need for carriers/freighters? Yes. Would the outlaws' friends get GCC and concord for remote assitance? Yes. Huge disadvantage for a pvp corp. More pvp and more customers for industrialists. Honestly its stacked in favor of non-pirates by a good bit. Thoughts? An old idea but still an excellent one. yup definately a great idea
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:07:00 - [260] Originally by: TrulyKosh Edited by: TrulyKosh on 19/11/2008 11:36:00 Edited by: TrulyKosh on 19/11/2008 11:35:03 Originally by: Omarvelous Right now - a high sec player wanting to fight an outlaw - has to travel into low sec through gate camps and fight on the pirates' terms - I'm offering you guys a chance to fight on your terms! Most likely "your terms" would would mean you hanging out cloaked at a gate in your arazu, waiting to suicide juicy t1 haulers. Sorry, but wasn't a large part of past patches designed to get rid of that kind of thing? No need to bring it back. Other than that ... what's to stop the pirate's corp to war dec all the player corps in high sec with 1000s of potential targets which would normally be way out of reach because they never ever enter low sec? Once war is declared, all the fluffy game mechanics working in favor of the carebear cease working as intended, because the pirate is in a place where he should not be (and actively worked his way out of). What Arazu pilot has the dps to insta a hauler and the tank to survive for a split second? Who would be stupid enough to haul valuables in an untanked t1 hauler? Have you missed my posts about concord shadowing you so you CANT suicide gank?! What's to stop ANYONE and EVERYONE from popping the outlaws 1 by 1 as they try to attack war targets?! Common dude THINK things through BEYOND your risk averse perspective!

Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:10:00 - [261] CONCORD COULD SHADOW YOU AND INSTA PWN AN OUTLAW FOR ANY CRIMNAL ACT IN 0.0 - ELIMINATING Outlaw suicide ganks in high sec. CONCORD COULD SHADOW YOU AND INSTA PWN AN OUTLAW FOR ANY CRIMNAL ACT IN 0.0 - ELIMINATING Outlaw suicide ganks in high sec. CONCORD COULD SHADOW YOU AND INSTA PWN AN OUTLAW FOR ANY CRIMNAL ACT IN 0.0 - ELIMINATING Outlaw suicide ganks in high sec. CONCORD COULD SHADOW YOU AND INSTA PWN AN OUTLAW FOR ANY CRIMNAL ACT IN 0.0 - ELIMINATING Outlaw suicide ganks in high sec. CONCORD COULD SHADOW YOU AND INSTA PWN AN OUTLAW FOR ANY CRIMNAL ACT IN 0.0 - ELIMINATING Outlaw suicide ganks in high sec. CONCORD COULD SHADOW YOU AND INSTA PWN AN OUTLAW FOR ANY CRIMNAL ACT IN 0.0 - ELIMINATING Outlaw suicide ganks in high sec. There - I repeated it often enough - I am NOT looking to boost suicide ganks for outlaws.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:16:00 - [262] Originally by: Durty Nell This is where the confusion lays for me, what benefit, if any, do the bears get if such a plan was implemented? If outlaws could participate in high sec they could engage in war decs - with the caveat that all of eve can interrupt their fight. Yes their movement would be greatly enhanced - there are dozens of penalties for going outlaw however - ALL the game mechanics work AGAINST you in empire pvp sceanario. Its an added bonus to me - I still move where I need to regardless. I just want to expand pvp - and make the policing situation less AI and more people oriented. Policing could be an excellent new occupation for high sec pvpers. For those worried about NOOB kills - an Outlaw would have to be extremely bored to waste a ship killing ibis's. If the insurance payout hasn't been canceled in the recent patch - It should be implemented for outlaws at the very least to further discourage suicide ganks by outlaws.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:24:00 - [263] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Durty Nell This is where the confusion lays for me, what benefit, if any, do the bears get if such a plan was implemented? If outlaws could participate in high sec they could engage in war decs - with the caveat that all of eve can interrupt their fight. […] Policing could be an excellent new occupation for high sec pvpers. Ok, but you didn't really asnwer the question: what benefit, if any, do the bears get if such a plan was implemented? No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:25:00 - [264] Edited by: Omarvelous on 19/11/2008 14:28:25 Originally by: Tippia So I don't see how it would improve anything, whereas I do see how it would make griefing far easier (the kinds of griefing that actually exist in the game, rather than the standard "waaah, he attacked me for no reason!1"-whines). I'v given some tweaks on concord to avoid griefing abuses. Why are you so opposed to a player oriented policing effort that I am trying to promote? All the game mechanics are already in place to assist you. I'm adding a few to help you even more. If you DONT want to pvp an outlaw you dont have to. They will be powerless to commit crimes in high sec with my proposal. They will be allowed to travel there and to engage war targets (until local forms up to push them out). War decee's would have ALL of Eve as their mercs to help them vs an outlaw corp. You could put a beacon on outlaws to assist locals in finding outlaws even more. A new level of cat and mouse. Outlaws could fight other outlaws in high sec - with the exceptino that others could crash the party. Right now high sec has VERY restricted and static PvP. A new player wishing to taste pvp has to travel to low sec - avoid getting ganked at teh gate - then HOPE to find a target - a target that has friends that shrug off sentries to help and destroy the noob. Now that same noob could get some experience in high sec with my system - AND have all the game mechanics at his disposal. Maybe he wouldd learn more - and get better - and head into low-sec/null-sec and start a good pvp career. My motives are for more pvp. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:27:00 - [265] Originally by: Tippia what benefit, if any, do the bears get if such a plan was implemented? Current game mechanics that give them ALL the advantages in a pvp encounter. - 1st strike - friendly assistance - hostile has NO support They have nothing to lose (since the outlaws can't commit crimes in high sec) so nothing more should be offered tbh. They won't be affected in the least should they choose to ignore the system. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
TrulyKosh Gallente Solo for UNCLE	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:28:00 - [266] Originally by: Omarvelous [ Who would be stupid enough to haul valuables in an untanked t1 hauler? Have you missed my posts about concord shadowing you so you CANT suicide gank?! What's to stop ANYONE and EVERYONE from popping the outlaws 1 by 1 as they try to attack war targets?! Common dude THINK things through BEYOND your risk averse perspective! a) people in high sec. you'd be surprised :) or probably not, that's why you want back into high sec :)) b) yep, sry. missed that one c) the same issues as in every war. you will not attack when you're in a hauler and flying one is one of the necessities of doing more than just mission running d) does spending years in 0.0 count as risk-averse? but, just for the fun of it: You are a known Somali/Etheopian pirate. What you want now is to travel freely to the Channel with docking rights in Southhampton and Calais. Add to that the ability to buy a Letter of Marque, do your business in the Channel and sell your loot in said ports. (I agree, business would be a lot easier for these guys, if they could just steer their tanker to Rotterdam) And on top, you do not even want to do your time in Somalia
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:31:00 - [267] Originally by: TrulyKosh You are a known Somali/Etheopian pirate. What you want now is to travel freely to the Channel with docking rights in Southhampton and Calais. Add to that the ability to buy a Letter of Marque, do your business in the Channel and sell your loot in said ports. (I agree, business would be a lot easier for these guys, if they could just steer their tanker to Rotterdam) And on top, you do not even want to do your time in Somalia I'll see your analogy and 1 up you with an in game analogy. Why are NPC rats (outlaw criminals with Concord bounties) allowed at all in high sec? They should be instantly bbqed by faction police. No belt rats. No mission rats (If I'm found at a deadspace - so can the rats). Get rid of NPC rats in high sec then. Just mine and trade in high sec. Orrrr - allow the rats to stay - and player outlaws as well! * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
TrulyKosh Gallente Solo for UNCLE	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:35:00 - [268] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: TrulyKosh Why are NPC rats (outlaw criminals with Concord bounties) allowed at all in high sec? They should be instantly bbqed by faction police. No belt rats. No mission rats (If I'm found at a deadspace - so can the rats). Simple, they are not. That's why 1000s of agents are sending 1000s of players after them
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:39:00 - [269] As a 3 months retired pirate i can say the system works fine as it is.Don't change it.
Tippia Caldari Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:47:00 - [270] Originally by: Omarvelous Why are you so opposed to a player oriented policing effort that I am trying to promote? I'm not. I'm just asking what it would actually add to the game? You assume that people will take advantage of this (supposedly) new opportunity when just about everything we see today suggests the opposite. I, on the other hand, assume that it will be abused — a lot speaks towards that happening. Quote: Right now high sec has VERY restricted and static PvP. A new player wishing to taste pvp has to travel to low sec - avoid getting ganked at teh gate - then HOPE to find a target - a target that has friends that shrug off sentries to help and destroy the noob. Now that same noob could get some experience in high sec with my system - AND have all the game mechanics at his disposal. Maybe he wouldd learn more - and get better - and head into low-sec/null-sec and start a good pvp career. …and I don't see this happening. It's a nice dream — no argument there — but what speaks in favour of this dream coming true? People who want to PvP can do it already. It's not hard to find. Yes, the PvP you find mostly sucks, but your suggestion does not adress the sucky parts — it only gives a few more opportunities for the same suckiness to happen. That's not an improvement, nor an worth-while addition. The same goes for the n00b experience: if he doesn't know what he's doing, the n00b is going to die in roughly no seconds flat (because he was dumb enough to attack a seasoned pirate). Will that really give him an incentive to seek out more of it? More importantly, if it does make him seek out more, it rather seems to me that he's the kind of person who seeks combat out already in the current system. In addition, if he does know what he's doing, then you won't enjoy the fight, and quite frankly, at that point, he'll know how to handle himself wherever there is PvP already. Your suggestion is just a displaced version of the regular "get more people into lowsec through mechanic X — it'll be more fun" suggestions. Just like those, you don't explain why X would actually work the way you envison it. The exact same goal as you're campaigning for can be achieved by saying "make it easier to get in and out of lowsec by making combat there consensual." The effect would be the same (and would fail for the same reasons); the only difference in what people you're trying to move, and to where. No sig for me, thankyouverymuch.

Huurtney Gurdsen	Posted - 2008.11.19 14:48:00 - [271] Ha ! Pirates whining about not being allowed in High Sec space, whoda thunk it. If you choose to behave in a criminal and predatory fashion, the game mechanic has evoloved to keep you away from those who do not. Two words for you: *HARD LUCK* Yea, though I wart through the valet of thy shadowy hut I will feed no norman.
Korizan	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:19:00 - [272] Edited by: Korizan on 19/11/2008 15:24:30 Originally by: Omarvelous Get rid of NPC rats in high sec then. Just mine and trade in high sec. Orrrr - allow the rats to stay - and player outlaws as well! Removing NPC RATS is a very week arguement and pointless. Removing RATS from High-sec would only hurt the very new players. Which by the way is the whole reason for them being there. Nobody else even considers them a ISK making option. They are not even remotely a threat and are the aquivelent of a newbie ship. So if you want to have the same rights as the high-sec RATS then.... You can fly a newbie ship / shuttle / maybe a t1 frigate with t1 or highsec faction items. Then you would have the same rights as the RATS in high-sec. Anything more then that and you basically throw the whole what about high-sec RATS out the window. Even from a RP this works. YOu might be a outlaw but you are not a threat to shipping there for Concord is not going to spend the effect to go after you. However if you are in a bigger ship you then have the potential of causing problems and this forces Concord to take action. In other words Concord wil take the lazy route if they can.
Tasty Bit Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:34:00 - [273] Just find a high sec system on your map, set your AP, and go afk. You'll get there eventually.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:38:00 - [274] OP is trying to disguise his unwillingness to put in effort with 'logic'. (in)actions have consequences, you had the action now deal with the consequences. If you don't like them then the joke's on you for not thinking ahead.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:45:00 - [275] Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 19/11/2008 15:28:27 Originally by: Omarvelous Get rid of NPC rats in high sec then. Just mine and trade in high sec. Orrrr - allow the rats to stay - and player outlaws as well! Removing NPC RATS is a very week arguement and pointless. Removing RATS from High-sec would only hurt the very new players. Which by the way is the whole reason for them being there. Nobody else even considers them a ISK making option. They are not even remotely a threat and are the aquivelent of a newbie ship. So if you want to have the same rights as the high-sec RATS then.... You can fly a newbie ship / shuttle / maybe a t1 frigate with t1 or highsec faction items. Then you would have the same rights as the RATS in high-sec. Anything more then that and you basically throw the whole what about high-sec RATS out the window. Even from a RP this works. YOu might be a outlaw but you are not a threat to shipping there for Concord is not going to spend the effort to go after you. However if you are in a bigger ship you then have the potential of causing problems and this forces Concord to take action. In other words Concord will take the lazy route if they can. I'm not suggesting to remove high sec rats - I realize that would hurt new players. I was just using an analogy. Its ludicrous that a rat in a battleship (high sec level IV's) can exist in high sec without the NPC police chasing them down - yet an outlaw player cannot. If you argue that they are not a threat - I argue with my suggestion an Outlaw is even LESS of a threat because an outlaw can not fire on you unless YOU agress them! The rats will aggress the hell out of you. All I'm saying is allow outlaws in high sec without NPC intereference. The players have all the game mechanics at their disposal to effectively police high sec (I'm even offering a beacon on outlaws for anyone in system to warp to). Now outlaws have more of eve to play in - just some areas are far more dangerous for them to step foot in than others. Just like a carebear can go anywhere - but they are in dangerous territory in low sec and 0.0. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:45:00 - [276] Originally by: Tzar'rim OP is trying to disguise his unwillingness to put in effort with 'logic'. (in)actions have consequences, you had the action now deal with the consequences. He's asking for different kind of consequences? Current ones dictate you must use a alt. Lighter consequences would maybe entice people to take the consequences instead of avoiding them altogether with a alt ironically Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:48:00 - [277] Originally by: Huurtney Gurdsen Ha ! Pirates whining about not being allowed in High Sec space, whoda thunk it. If you choose to behave in a criminal and predatory fashion, the game mechanic has evoloved to keep you away from those who do not. Two words for you: *HARD LUCK* The only prey in my suggestion would be outlaws in high sec. Get your head out of your ass - lets those little neurons in your brain spark for just a fleeting moment, and think this proposal through. I'm offering you a chance for revenge against outlaws where all the rules are stacked in your favor. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:51:00 - [278] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/11/2008 15:48:23 Originally by: Tzar'rim OP is trying to disguise his unwillingness to put in effort with 'logic'. (in)actions have consequences, you had the action now deal with the consequences. He's asking for different kind of consequences? Current ones dictate you must use a alt. Lighter consequences would maybe entice people to take the consequences instead of avoiding them altogether with a alt ironically I could not have possibly worded that any better. Thank you! * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.19 15:58:00 - [279] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/11/2008 15:48:23 Originally by: Tzar'rim OP is trying to disguise his unwillingness to put in effort with 'logic'. (in)actions have consequences, you had the action now deal with the consequences. He's asking for different kind of consequences? Current ones dictate you must use a alt. Lighter consequences would maybe entice people to take the consequences instead of avoiding them altogether with a alt ironically I guess that comes with the idea of being an outlaw, outlaws launder their money and do business through more legitimate friends to keep their cashflow going. As I see it it works just fine. An idea would be if the one attacking an outlaw does not in any way get flagged to the outlaw's friends, corp/fleet members and that assisting an outlaw will still result in concord coming over. ie; no one can help the target in any way and he can be attacked by anyone. What you then get ofcourse is gatehugging -5 folks, hoping for some idiot to attack them and if things seem bleak just jump out. So in essence you increase your working area and target pool, which would benefit the outlaws. Now why would concord agree to that?
Malcanis RuffRyders Eradication Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:02:00 - [280] Originally by: Furb Killer Originally by: Troezar Let's face it CCP of old saw EVE as a niche PVP game, in fact it was the whole reason for EVE. More and more carebears flooded in and now it is seen as a cash cow. PVP especially non concensual threatens the cash flowing in hence PVP is getting harder. I'm betting if removal of PVP would double the income it would disappear tomorrow...the old EVE will never return Want some cheese with that whine? Want to provide some data and arguments with that tired, borrowed meme?

Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:08:00 - [281] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Furb Killer Originally by: Troezar Let's face it CCP of old saw EVE as a niche PVP game, in fact it was the whole reason for EVE. More and more carebears flooded in and now it is seen as a cash cow. PVP especially non concensual threatens the cash flowing in hence PVP is getting harder. I'm betting if removal of PVP would double the income it would disappear tomorrow...the old EVE will never return Want some cheese with that whine? Want to provide some data and arguments with that tired, borrowed meme? He is the one with the borrowed meme (eve is dying, eve isnt harsh anymore, bla bla bla), so i guess he may first give me data. NPC rats may come in high sec because they dont have a very low sec status, they dont pod kill... Instapopping a hauler with a battleship isnt exactly hard, so the result would be that suicide gankers can just continue with -10 sec status.
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:11:00 - [282] People seem to keep forgetting that this is in no way a boost for the pirate. Suicide ganking? C'mon. If they really want to suicide gank, they'll do it. It's been happening for years. And again, ideas have been suggested to prevent this (instant CONCORD response time). I see this idea from the op as the biggest boost to bounty hunting and players policing the Empire that has ever come to eve. We all know there is a bounty system already in place and that it is fail; you have to travel through gate camps and slums of low sec to engage pirates on their terms. This idea would allow you to engage on YOUR terms. As for the "well pirates could then take advantage of noobs" age old saying. Ever heard of can flipping? Plenty of noobs fall for it yet its still allowed. Live and learn. In fact, you could have a warning displayed similar to the one when you engage any other player in high sec, but instead of it saying CONCORD will destroy you, just have it say that this pilot will be able to engage you freely now. Honestly, are you people really this afraid of the scary pirate reentering high sec? TBH this consequence would be better than now because now every player would have a chance to gang up and own the pirates ass for even considering entering high sec. I say it again; EvE is an MMO greatly run by its players. This idea would cater to this ideology so much more by putting in the mechanics to allow for players to take more control of the game.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:13:00 - [283] Originally by: Tzar'rim As I see it it works just fine. An idea would be if the one attacking an outlaw does not in any way get flagged to the outlaw's friends, corp/fleet members and that assisting an outlaw will still result in concord coming over. ie; no one can help the target in any way and he can be attacked by anyone. Your 'idea' is already a game mechanic. Anyone attacking an outlaw anywhere does NOT get flagged to the outlaw's corpmates. Anyone assisting in any way an outlaw gets GCC and concorded. Thats how a gang of outlaws could be picked off 1 by 1 in high sec.
NightmareX D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:20:00 - [284] Originally by: Emperor Salazar People seem to keep forgetting that this is in no way a boost for the pirate. Suicide ganking? C'mon. If they really want to suicide gank, they'll do it. It's been happening for years. And again, ideas have been suggested to prevent this (instant CONCORD response time). I see this idea from the op as the biggest boost to bounty hunting and players policing the Empire that has ever come to eve. We all know there is a bounty system already in place and that it is fail; you have to travel through gate camps and slums of low sec to engage pirates on their terms. This idea would allow you to engage on YOUR terms. As for the "well pirates could then take advantage of noobs" age old saying. Ever heard of can flipping? Plenty of noobs fall for it yet its still allowed. Live and learn. In fact, you could have a warning displayed similar to the one when you engage any other player in high sec, but instead of it saying CONCORD will destroy you, just have it say that this pilot will be able to engage you freely now. Honestly, are you people really this afraid of the scary pirate reentering high sec? TBH this consequence would be better than now because now every player would have a chance to gang up and own the pirates ass for even considering entering high sec. I say it again; EvE is an MMO greatly run by its players. This idea would cater to this ideology so much more by putting in the mechanics to allow for players to take more control of the game. Bingo, we have a winner. Check out my new flash web page 'Alpha Strike'
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:25:00 - [285] Originally by: Furb Killer NPC rats may come in high sec because they dont have a very low sec status, they dont pod kill... Instapopping a hauler with a battleship isnt exactly hard, so the result would be that suicide gankers can just continue with -10 sec status. What exactly IS the sec status of an NPC rat? Its an outlaw by definition since they can be freely shot at by ANYONE without consequences (hell you don't even get an aggression timer for doing it - no session change delay). An outlaw STILL wouldnt be allowed to podkill a non-war target in high sec without concord insta popping them. Is the hauler WTZ and actively flying? If so then no chance of a suicide gank. Is the hauler AFK flying? Is it not tanked? Is the AFK hauler pilot stupid enough to place hundreds of millions (ie more than the BS ganker's ship and mods that are lost and not insured) in an untanked hauler? If so the outlaw won't be the only one trying to suicide kill him. Why are you so threatened by this proposed change? Are you AFK flying untanked T1 haulers with billions in loot? Are you AFK flying expensive things untanked? If the aswer is no - then you will not be in any way threatened by this change. Afraid of being war decced by an outlaw corp? Hmm - scream in local and have everyone at your disposal to drive off the aggressors. Afraid of being chased by pirates when YOU engage them in low sec? I don't understand yours (and others flaming in this thread) FEAR of this proposal. There are plenty of penalties and disadvantages to being an outlaw - allowing them into high sec with my proposal WILL NOT allow them to grief in high sec. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Korizan	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:25:00 - [286] Originally by: Omarvelous I'm not suggesting to remove high sec rats - I realize that would hurt new players. I was just using an analogy. Its ludicrous that a rat in a battleship (high sec level IV's) can exist in high sec without the NPC police chasing them down - yet an outlaw player cannot. If you argue that they are not a threat - I argue with my suggestion an Outlaw is even LESS of a threat because an outlaw can not fire on you unless YOU agress them! The rats will aggress the hell out of you. All I'm saying is allow outlaws in high sec without NPC intereference. The players have all the game mechanics at their disposal to effectively police high sec (I'm even offering a beacon on outlaws for anyone in system to warp to). Now outlaws have more of eve to play in - just some areas are far more dangerous for them to step foot in than others. Just like a carebear can go anywhere - but they are in dangerous territory in low sec and 0.0. There are some HUGE Differences between a RAT and a player in a Battleship. But first lets talk about NPC Mission RATs as a RP story line breaker. Mission RATS are spawned as part of a story, they are not openly flying through gates. They are hiding using hidden gates and you get a mission to destroy them (ie Concord takes no action because some corporation stated they will deal with the problem) Mechanic wise PVE battleships are VERY Week. Everyone will openly admit that a PvE fitted ship will Fail in PvP. What you are proposing is putting PvP battleships in High-sec under the control of people who have already proved they are inclined disrupt high-sec traffic. And funny enough that is the whole reason there is concord and a security status. What you basically want is the removal of security status.
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:34:00 - [287] Edited by: Emperor Salazar on 19/11/2008 16:35:26 Originally by: Korizan What you basically want is the removal of security status. Fail. It's not a removal of security status as there is clearly a penalty (being allowed to be shot by the 300+ average amount of people in hubs isn't penalty?). You and many others seem to be suffering under the delusion that there are no pvpers in high sec; that they are all in either low or null sec. Any experienced player would be able to tell you that this is far from the truth. As for well tanked battleship on the pirates side; yeah the average noob or mission runner won't be able to take them on. So...they don't engage, and life moves on. But for those pvpers in high sec and those wanting to fashion themselves as "bounty hunters" this would allow them to do so. This idea has potential; stop shutting it down with ridiculously stupid reasons just so you can maintain the status quo (afraid of change much?). Edit: Quoted before Korizan edited his post. Sorry .
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:37:00 - [288] Originally by: Korizan What you basically want is the removal of security status. Your fear has narrowed your scope of perspective on this proposal. Sec status is MORE than just access to areas with certain security. Outlaws have several handicaps in place for high sec combat (read up on them I've only posted them dozens of times). I am not saying NPC rats and players are equal threats. I'm saying for RP purposes it makes no sense to allow outlaws of 1 kind (non pod pilots) and not outlaws that are pod pilots. How come NPC pirates can 'spawn' through hidden gates - yet when I warp to that same hidden area in anything other than my pod - the police can suddenly find me? How come Concord wont attack these NPC pirates - yet if you accidentally remote rep them (for example) - they instantly find you and destroy you?! Doesn't make any RP sense. How come Concord allows these outlaw NPCs to shoot innocent players without destroying them? Mechanics wise the player controlled outlaw is still just as restricted as anyone else in committing a crime in high sec and will have just as harsh a penalty for engaging in it. What I want is for players not the faction police to police their security status areas. What I want is for greater roaming possibilities without having to lose my outlaw status. Your relative safety in high sec will not be endangered unless you choose to aggress the outlaws. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Korizan	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:39:00 - [289] Originally by: Emperor Salazar Edited by: Emperor Salazar on 19/11/2008 16:35:26 Originally by: Korizan What you basically want is the removal of security status. Fail. It's not a removal of security status as there is clearly a penalty (being allowed to be shot by the 300+ average amount of people in hubs isn't penalty?). You and many others seem to be suffering under the delusion that there are no pvpers in high sec; that they are all in either low or null sec. Any experienced player would be able to tell you that this is far from the truth. As for well tanked battleship on the pirates side; yeah the average noob or mission runner won't be able to take them on. So...they don't engage, and life moves on. But for those pvpers in high sec and those wanting to fashion themselves as "bounty hunters" this would allow them to do so. This idea has potential; stop shutting it down with ridiculously stupid reasons just so you can maintain the status quo (afraid of change much?). Edit: Quoted before Korizan edited his post. Sorry . Yeh cause we were going in circles. Everything can be simplified to one simple question. Why do you want to go to high-sec ?
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:45:00 - [290] Originally by: Korizan Why do you want to go to high-sec ? IMO, the biggest reason this should be allowed is from a RP view and an advancement in the movement to allow players more control in the game. I agree with the NPC rat argument as silly as it comes across. Why the hell would the navies/CONCORD allow them in high sec? They are not just outlaws but allied to factions pitted against the Empire and the way of life in high sec. Mainly though, I really like the concept of the bounty hunter. Eve is lacking greatly in this area; I know many players that entered eve with the ambition to be one until realizing that the mechanics just aren't there for it yet. Finally, the idea of players having more control. Players should be securing high sec, not having some computer AI do it for them. CCP has already mentioned their ambition to move in this direction in regards to low sec; this idea simply expands it to high sec. The biggest thing to note is that this change would in no way endanger high sec citizens as is. They could simply ignore the outlaw and move about their business. But it would enable those who wish to take matters in their own hands. Since when has adding a bit of excitement to the game (yeah even high sec) been looked down on?

Korizan	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:48:00 - [291] Originally by: Emperor Salazar Originally by: Korizan Why do you want to go to high-sec ? IMO, the biggest reason this should be allowed is from a RP view and an advancement in the movement to allow players more control in the game. I agree with the NPC rat argument as silly as it comes across. Why the hell would the navies/CONCORD allow them in high sec? They are not just outlaws but allied to factions pitted against the Empire and the way of life in high sec. Mainly though, I really like the concept of the bounty hunter. Eve is lacking greatly in this area; I know many players that entered eve with the ambition to be one until realizing that the mechanics just aren't there for it yet. Finally, the idea of players having more control. Players should be securing high sec, not having some computer AI do it for them. CCP has already mentioned their ambition to move in this direction in regards to low sec; this idea simply expands it to high sec. The biggest thing to note is that this change would in no way endanger high sec citizens as is. They could simply ignore the outlaw and move about their business. But it would enable those who wish to take matters in their own hands. Since when has adding a bit of excitement to the game (yeah even high sec) been looked down on? This does NOT answer my question. You are stating what OTHER people should be doing in game. Why do YOU want to go to high-sec.
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:55:00 - [292] Originally by: Korizan This does NOT answer my question. You are stating what OTHER people should be doing in game. Why do YOU want to go to high-sec. I love idiot trolls. I already do enter high sec; I am not a pirate (I've stated this before, but thanks for the weak assumption). I simply see this as a damn good advancement for the game of eve. You on the other hand simply offer no reasonable argument as to why this shouldn't be implemented. I also never said this is what players should be doing; it is something I think players would love to see. This is what this is truly about, enabling players to run the player run game (redundancy intentional because you clearly want CCP to spoon feed you). Also, OP has stated before; he wants this for fights: plain and simple. And this would bring it. You would find many high sec pvpers answering the call and many pirate v. Empire dweller fights. More pvp in a pvp game? I know. So silly.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 16:56:00 - [293] Originally by: Korizan Why do YOU want to go to high-sec. To get more pvp than what is available in low sec. I dont want faction warfare blobs. I dont want 0.0 politics and 0.0 blobs.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:03:00 - [294] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Furb Killer NPC rats may come in high sec because they dont have a very low sec status, they dont pod kill... Instapopping a hauler with a battleship isnt exactly hard, so the result would be that suicide gankers can just continue with -10 sec status. What exactly IS the sec status of an NPC rat? Its an outlaw by definition since they can be freely shot at by ANYONE without consequences (hell you don't even get an aggression timer for doing it - no session change delay). An outlaw STILL wouldnt be allowed to podkill a non-war target in high sec without concord insta popping them. Is the hauler WTZ and actively flying? If so then no chance of a suicide gank. Is the hauler AFK flying? Is it not tanked? Is the AFK hauler pilot stupid enough to place hundreds of millions (ie more than the BS ganker's ship and mods that are lost and not insured) in an untanked hauler? If so the outlaw won't be the only one trying to suicide kill him. Why are you so threatened by this proposed change? Are you AFK flying untanked T1 haulers with billions in loot? Are you AFK flying expensive things untanked? If the aswer is no - then you will not be in any way threatened by this change. Afraid of being war decced by an outlaw corp? Hmm - scream in local and have everyone at your disposal to drive off the aggressors. Afraid of being chased by pirates when YOU engage them in low sec? I don't understand yours (and others flaming in this thread) FEAR of this proposal. There are plenty of penalties and disadvantages to being an outlaw - allowing them into high sec with my proposal WILL NOT allow them to grief in high sec. I personally would probably enjoy shooting pirates in high sec. However: 1. it would make sec status less important, and you can keep telling whatever you want, being bbq'ed by the navy is not the same as people might attack you. It would make it far easier to move arround in high sec (some whirates claim that wont be the case because they will be attacked immediatly by 100 players, then why do you want the entire mechanic?) 2. It would open a can filled with loopholes.
Korizan	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:04:00 - [295] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Korizan Why do YOU want to go to high-sec. To get more pvp than what is available in low sec. I dont want faction warfare blobs. I dont want 0.0 politics and 0.0 blobs. Now we are getting somewhere. And you are hoping somebody will just attack you because you can be fired on and you have a large bounty correct ? And no Emporer I am NOT trolling. Keep in mind that CCP has a long list of thinking they want to do. And if you want something changed then the quicK fix stuff will most likely come first. So something simple and that doesn't create any holes will come long before anything that changes a entire system. I am entirely nuatral to the whole pirate thing I have friends from old corporations that could be by there Concord status be considered pirates. The object is to find something that most everybody agrees to.
Troezar Fatality. United Federation of Capsuleers	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:05:00 - [296] Originally by: Furb Killer Want some cheese with that whine?[/quote Want to provide some data and arguments with that tired, borrowed meme? He is the one with the borrowed meme (eve is dying, eve isnt harsh anymore, bla bla bla), so i guess he may first give me data. NPC rats may come in high sec because they dont have a very low sec status, they dont pod kill... Instapopping a hauler with a battleship isnt exactly hard, so the result would be that suicide gankers can just continue with -10 sec status. Putting a label on an opinion doesn't make it less valid nor does your straw man argument. Note I didn't say Eve was dying it is thriving as never before. See what you see not what you want to see PVP however is stale, is predictable and has been eroded over time. I don't have -10 sec nor do I intend to get it however I can see the trend over the last 5 years and like it or not Eve was more fun when it was harsher and back then I was one of the carebears Oh and Eve isn't harsh any more and as you're so fond of labels go back to WoW PS Yes I've played WoW myself and guess what it became a boring grind with nothing to lose...
Cyber Blue Gallente Cyber Blue Consulting	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:08:00 - [297] I've continued to think about this situation. At the moment I've decided no player should be hindered completely from going anywhere within the game due to game design. That just doesn't seem right to me. As long as the proper security measures are in place, I don't have a problem with it. I understand the fears of many, however, the mother should not smother the child in order to protect it. Relax the restrictions on one part a bit while beefing up the restrictions on another part. Muzzle the bite a bit and allow more free breathing. It could possibly open up some new avenues of gameplay. End of line...
Crucifier The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:09:00 - [298] Edited by: Crucifier on 19/11/2008 17:09:15 HOW IS THAT ALMOST ALL THE POSTERS IN THIS THREAD ARE TOO **ING IGNORANT TO READ THE OP. The stupitidy in this thread is tilting me haaard. NO, OP'S MATES COULDN'T HELP HIM IF HE GOT ATTACKED. HE WOULD BE A - **ING - LONE.
Troezar Fatality. United Federation of Capsuleers	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:16:00 - [299] Originally by: Crucifier Edited by: Crucifier on 19/11/2008 17:09:15 HOW IS THAT ALMOST ALL THE POSTERS IN THIS THREAD ARE TOO **ING IGNORANT TO READ THE OP. The stupitidy in this thread is tilting me haaard. NO, OP'S MATES COULDN'T HELP HIM IF HE GOT ATTACKED. HE WOULD BE A - **ING - LONE. Simple answer carbears like safety as it equals no loss, no fear of loss means no need to worry and therefore think. If you don't have to think why would you know how game mechanics work, you wouldn't have to think about them Fear of loss and lack of understanding stresses them, they don't like stress hence they avoid pvp. Note they will do anything to protect this safety, except fight! Find a way for pvp to equal more revenue for CCP and the slaughter will begin On reflection I've remembered why I don't post a lot on internet forums
Korizan	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:25:00 - [300] Edited by: Korizan on 19/11/2008 17:35:58 Actually how about a much simpler solution. Right now the system goes from 0 to -10 IF CCP Increased or adjusted the standings soooo First half you become attackable in high-sec and the second half concord gets involved. So CCP could then tier the offenses accordingly. Suicide attacks give a bigger hit then lowsec gate camping etc etc. That would effectively open up the OPS requests and @ the same time keep the grief or suicide bunch happy as well. And as a side of this it you could also give more room for people to work in low-sec without totally destroying the rating ? So You become KOS to Players with the following; * -2.00 for access to 1.0 security level systems * -2.50 for access to 0.9 security level systems * -3.00 for access to 0.8 security level systems * -3.50 for access to 0.7 security level systems * -4.00 for access to 0.6 security level systems * -4.50 for access to 0.5 security level systems And You become CONCORD lunch @ the following; * -5.00 for access to 1.0 security level systems * -5.50 for access to 0.9 security level systems * -6.00 for access to 0.8 security level systems * -6.50 for access to 0.7 security level systems * -7.00 for access to 0.6 security level systems * -7.50 for access to 0.5 security level systems A little tweaking but doable. Would that work ?

Doctor Penguin Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:30:00 - [301] People, this is an obvious troll and lulz thread. You've all been trolled. -_-
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:38:00 - [302] Originally by: Korizan Edited by: Korizan on 19/11/2008 17:26:15 Actually how about a much simpler solution. Right now the system goes from 0 to -10 you could increase it to 0 to -20 IF CCP Increased or adjusted the standings soooo First half you become attackable in high-sec and the second half concord gets involved. So CCP could then tier the offenses accordingly. Suicide attacks give a bigger hit then lowsec gate camping etc etc. That would effectively open up the OPS requests and @ the same time keep the grief or suicide bunch happy as well. And as a side of this it you could also give more room for people to work in low-sec without totally destroying the rating ? Would that work ? It could work, but I don't think you are realizing the true nature of the -10.0 sec status. Its not just griefers and douchebags that have it. Most true pirates maintain it as an emblem so to speak. In all honesty, I don't see why you are opposed to this implementation as the op is putting it out. The main points I've seen against it are 1) increase in suicide ganks and 2) easy access to market. I've stated before as have others that the suicide ganking could be dealt with by increased monitoring by CCP of outlaws. As for the market, just ban them from it. On a RP level it is controlled by SCC which is part of CONCORD so yeah, ban them from it. Just remember that this really does not hinder them as alts are easily utilized. I understand that having SCC ban pirates from the market opens the question why DED doesn't engage the outlaws then? Here you just have to compromise. This system allows for players to control a little bit more how the game is run, how their security is maintained (the market is just something you can't control unless you were to camp every station 23/7, obviously not feasible). I suppose throwing out the SCC idea and rather having the empire factions and their respective corporations simply not allow docking access to outlaws? In this method you would maintain the idea that outlaws are an open target for any law abiding citizen to engage and also have no access to Empire stations. And to make it so its not simply pirates going to empire for lulz, you could have pirate faction missions in low sec that send pirates to high sec (I think someone touched on this, perhaps the op?). Now empire dwellers have the added incentive of really ruining a pirates day (revenge anyone?)
Cyprus Black Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:41:00 - [303] Originally by: Omarvelous Think it through. Will I an outlaw go shopping in high sec? HELL NO! ie. I go to Jita to buy and fit up my ship. Sweet - I got it and I'm going to undock... BUT WAIT! 200 people undocked see me (outlaw) undocked in his ship. Seeing that they have free rights to shoot me and POD me, and that my corp mates cannot not assist me in anyway I die horribly. I dont want to shop with my outlaw character. I have an industrial alt to take care of all my high sec shopping needs. I in turn manufacture all my - and my corp's needs in low sec. I don't need high sec shopping. I want MORE fights - even if all the game mechanics favor YOU! After thinking it through, the answer is still no. Sympathy for your self created situation just isn't coming. ___________________________________________________ The Escapist: EvE Online video review.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:42:00 - [304] You guys can't see this guy agenda? He clearly aims at suicide ganking in empire without the hassle of having to rebuild his standing.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:42:00 - [305] Originally by: Furb Killer 2. It would open a can filled with loopholes. Name 1. Current mechanics + what I have mentioned covers these imaginery loopholes you're conjuring up. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Cyber Blue Gallente Cyber Blue Consulting	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:44:00 - [306] Quote: I suppose throwing out the SCC idea and rather having the empire factions and their respective corporations simply not allow docking access to outlaws? In this method you would maintain the idea that outlaws are an open target for any law abiding citizen to engage and also have no access to Empire stations. And to make it so its not simply pirates going to empire for lulz, you could have pirate faction missions in low sec that send pirates to high sec (I think someone touched on this, perhaps the op?). Now empire dwellers have the added incentive of really ruining a pirates day (revenge anyone?) I would be for allowing outlaws access to stations they have positive standing with in order to make use of a "black market" so to speak. Criminal "pirate" factions should most certainly have agents in low-sec. Regardless this should be done. End of line...
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:44:00 - [307] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Furb Killer 2. It would open a can filled with loopholes. Name 1. Current mechanics + what I have mentioned covers these imaginery loopholes you're conjuring up. There are none. Hence the vague statement "a can filled with loopholes" and no elaboration.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:46:00 - [308] Originally by: Space Wanderer You guys can't see this guy agenda? He clearly aims at suicide ganking in empire without the hassle of having to rebuild his standing. EPIC FAIL. Read my posts about having Concord shadow an Outlaw and insta destrpy them if they commit a crime. Do YOU fly AFK untanked ship hauling billions? No? Then come up with something else to mask your fears. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:47:00 - [309] Originally by: Cyber Blue I would be for allowing outlaws access to stations they have positive standing with in order to make use of a "black market" so to speak. Criminal "pirate" factions should most certainly have agents in low-sec. Regardless this should be done. This would work as well. I really think it would be in CCP's best interest to expand the Pirate/smuggler professions and its counterpart, bounty hunters. The ops' proposition is an idea that would open up many doors to improving this aspect of the game.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:48:00 - [310] Originally by: Cyprus Black Originally by: Omarvelous Think it through. Will I an outlaw go shopping in high sec? HELL NO! ie. I go to Jita to buy and fit up my ship. Sweet - I got it and I'm going to undock... BUT WAIT! 200 people undocked see me (outlaw) undocked in his ship. Seeing that they have free rights to shoot me and POD me, and that my corp mates cannot not assist me in anyway I die horribly. I dont want to shop with my outlaw character. I have an industrial alt to take care of all my high sec shopping needs. I in turn manufacture all my - and my corp's needs in low sec. I don't need high sec shopping. I want MORE fights - even if all the game mechanics favor YOU! After thinking it through, the answer is still no. Sympathy for your self created situation just isn't coming. Your sympathy is as useless to me as your worthless response. I want to enhance eve - your fear of change is blinding you to a great pvp opportunity.

Korizan	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:48:00 - [311] Edited by: Korizan on 19/11/2008 17:49:11 Originally by: Emperor Salazar It could work, but I don't think you are realizing the true nature of the -10.0 sec status. Its not just griefers and douchebags that have it. Most true pirates maintain it as an emblem so to speak. In all honesty, I don't see why you are opposed to this implementation as the op is putting it out. The main points I've seen against it are 1) increase in suicide ganks and 2) easy access to market. I've stated before as have others that the suicide ganking could be dealt with by increased monitoring by CCP of outlaws. As for the market, just ban them from it. On a RP level it is controlled by SCC which is part of CONCORD so yeah, ban them from it. Just remember that this really does not hinder them as alts are easily utilized. I understand that having SCC ban pirates from the market opens the question why DED doesn't engage the outlaws then? Here you just have to compromise. This system allows for players to control a little bit more how the game is run, how their security is maintained (the market is just something you can't control unless you were to camp every station 23/7, obviously not feasible). I suppose throwing out the SCC idea and rather having the empire factions and their respective corporations simply not allow docking access to outlaws? In this method you would maintain the idea that outlaws are an open target for any law abiding citizen to engage and also have no access to Empire stations. And to make it so its not simply pirates going to empire for lulz, you could have pirate faction missions in low sec that send pirates to high sec (I think someone touched on this, perhaps the op?). Now empire dwellers have the added incentive of really ruining a pirates day (revenge anyone?) I see your point I modified my post to use the following So You become KOS to Players with the following; * -2.00 for access to 1.0 security level systems * -2.50 for access to 0.9 security level systems * -3.00 for access to 0.8 security level systems * -3.50 for access to 0.7 security level systems * -4.00 for access to 0.6 security level systems * -4.50 for access to 0.5 security level systems And You become CONCORD lunch @ the following; * -5.00 for access to 1.0 security level systems * -5.50 for access to 0.9 security level systems * -6.00 for access to 0.8 security level systems * -6.50 for access to 0.7 security level systems * -7.00 for access to 0.6 security level systems * -7.50 for access to 0.5 security level systems As you can see the -10 pirates will still be locked out. THe badge of honour has a price. BUT defending yourself will not hurt as much. The only thing I can think off hand is the penalaties for suicide ganking would have to be increased to account for the changes but I think they should leave low-sec penalties alone as this would give it a much needed boost.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:50:00 - [312] Originally by: Emperor Salazar Originally by: Cyber Blue I would be for allowing outlaws access to stations they have positive standing with in order to make use of a "black market" so to speak. Criminal "pirate" factions should most certainly have agents in low-sec. Regardless this should be done. This would work as well. I really think it would be in CCP's best interest to expand the Pirate/smuggler professions and its counterpart, bounty hunters. The ops' proposition is an idea that would open up many doors to improving this aspect of the game. Likewise - pirate factions ought to have NPC stations in low sec that offer missions to smuggle/steal things in high sec.
Cyber Blue Gallente Cyber Blue Consulting	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:56:00 - [313] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Emperor Salazar Originally by: Cyber Blue I would be for allowing outlaws access to stations they have positive standing with in order to make use of a "black market" so to speak. Criminal "pirate" factions should most certainly have agents in low-sec. Regardless this should be done. This would work as well. I really think it would be in CCP's best interest to expand the Pirate/smuggler professions and its counterpart, bounty hunters. The ops' proposition is an idea that would open up many doors to improving this aspect of the game. Likewise - pirate factions ought to have NPC stations in low sec that offer missions to smuggle/steal things in high sec. I will agree. After all, where's the security to stop them from setting up these stations low-sec. Since the Empires have chosen to not really worry about low-sec all that much, it's obvious the criminal element will set up shop there.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:56:00 - [314] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Space Wanderer You guys can't see this guy agenda? He clearly aims at suicide ganking in empire without the hassle of having to rebuild his standing. EPIC FAIL. Read my posts about having Concord shadow an Outlaw and insta destrpy them if they commit a crime. Epic Troll... seriously after saying "Im going to ignore the trolling" you should ignore yourself. Maybe you already do. Was going to ask more info on what the "instadestroy" would matter to alphastrike, but I really can't be bothered anymore with this thread.
tracykins	Posted - 2008.11.19 17:56:00 - [315] Originally by: Omarvelous I'll see your analogy and 1 up you with an in game analogy. Why are NPC rats (outlaw criminals with Concord bounties) allowed at all in high sec? They should be instantly bbqed by faction police. No belt rats. No mission rats (If I'm found at a deadspace - so can the rats). Get rid of NPC rats in high sec then. Just mine and trade in high sec. Orrrr - allow the rats to stay - and player outlaws as well! This has been answered already, the NPC rats are not outlaws they have are at WAR with the empires, concord does not interfere with wars.
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:01:00 - [316] Originally by: tracykins Edited by: tracykins on 19/11/2008 17:57:09 Originally by: Omarvelous I'll see your analogy and 1 up you with an in game analogy. Why are NPC rats (outlaw criminals with Concord bounties) allowed at all in high sec? They should be instantly bbqed by faction police. No belt rats. No mission rats (If I'm found at a deadspace - so can the rats). Get rid of NPC rats in high sec then. Just mine and trade in high sec. Orrrr - allow the rats to stay - and player outlaws as well! This has been answered already, the NPC rats are not outlaws they are at WAR with the empires, concord does not interfere with wars. Correct. And CONCORD doesn't come after outlaws. The navies do. Thus, shouldn't the navies be policing up the NPC rats they're AT WAR WITH? Nah. Better take care of that bad bad outlaw first. He'll scare the noobs away he will.
Cyber Blue Gallente Cyber Blue Consulting	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:01:00 - [317] Originally by: tracykins Edited by: tracykins on 19/11/2008 17:57:09 Originally by: Omarvelous I'll see your analogy and 1 up you with an in game analogy. Why are NPC rats (outlaw criminals with Concord bounties) allowed at all in high sec? They should be instantly bbqed by faction police. No belt rats. No mission rats (If I'm found at a deadspace - so can the rats). Get rid of NPC rats in high sec then. Just mine and trade in high sec. Orrrr - allow the rats to stay - and player outlaws as well! This has been answered already, the NPC rats are not outlaws they are at WAR with the empires, concord does not interfere with wars. Allow players to join these criminal "pirate" factions and thus enter faction wars. I would like to see that happen regardless.
Martin Mckenna Shake n Bake	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:06:00 - [318] why bother having a sec stats then?
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:06:00 - [319] Originally by: Cyber Blue Allow players to join these criminal "pirate" factions and thus enter faction wars. I would like to see that happen regardless. This actually came up at Fan Fest and the devs sort of did a silent thought, yeah we'll keep that in mind (as part of FW I believe, its in one of the released videos.) It would be another phenomenal expansion of the pirate/smuggler arena, a very underdeveloped aspect of EvE.
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:07:00 - [320] Quote: Name 1. Current mechanics + what I have mentioned covers these imaginery loopholes you're conjuring up. Wardecs, it will mean -10 pirates can go arround in empire shooting war targets. They can just dock whenever random people attack them, and go for wartargets. Or they attack a high sec POS of their targets, how many random people do you think will go to the pos to help defend it? low sec pockets which are cut off from rest of low sec by high sec systems. Sure you can go through them now with pod and use carrier to jump your ship there, but every time your ship is destroyed carrier jumping a new one is a bit more work than just going right through the high sec system. --------------------------------------------- Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.

Cyber Blue Gallente Cyber Blue Consulting	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:34:00 - [321] Originally by: Emperor Salazar Edited by: Emperor Salazar on 19/11/2008 18:13:03 Originally by: Cyber Blue Allow players to join these criminal "pirate" factions and thus enter faction wars. I would like to see that happen regardless. This actually came up at Fan Fest and the devs sort of did a silent thought, yeah we'll keep that in mind (as part of FW I believe, its in one of the released videos.) It would be another phenomenal expansion of the pirate/smuggler arena, a very underdeveloped aspect of EvE. EDIT: About 60 minutes into the "CCP Panel" video you can hear the devs take on this introduction. Thanks, just listened to it. Sounds like it may be done in the future. Perhaps it will take some pushing to let them know there is really a part of EvE that wants this type of thing. That means that threads like this that provide ideas for pirates and smugglers alike are a good thing and need to be done more often.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:39:00 - [322] Originally by: tracykins Edited by: tracykins on 19/11/2008 17:57:09 Originally by: Omarvelous I'll see your analogy and 1 up you with an in game analogy. Why are NPC rats (outlaw criminals with Concord bounties) allowed at all in high sec? They should be instantly bbqed by faction police. No belt rats. No mission rats (If I'm found at a deadspace - so can the rats). Get rid of NPC rats in high sec then. Just mine and trade in high sec. Orrrr - allow the rats to stay - and player outlaws as well! This has been answered already, the NPC rats are not outlaws they are at WAR with the empires, concord does not interfere with wars. Then why is CONCORD paying you bounties for killing outlaw rats? Why is your sec status with CONCORD improving when you kill rats? Its because they are criminals/outlaws and its hypocritical to allow them and not player controlled outlaws.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 18:54:00 - [323] Originally by: Furb Killer Quote: Name 1. Current mechanics + what I have mentioned covers these imaginery loopholes you're conjuring up. Wardecs, it will mean -10 pirates can go arround in empire shooting war targets. They can just dock whenever random people attack them, and go for wartargets. Or they attack a high sec POS of their targets, how many random people do you think will go to the pos to help defend it? low sec pockets which are cut off from rest of low sec by high sec systems. Sure you can go through them now with pod and use carrier to jump your ship there, but every time your ship is destroyed carrier jumping a new one is a bit more work than just going right through the high sec system. Can docked up outlaws still shoot you in space? NOPE - they're out of the playing field then. Aggression timers mean if an outlaw is firing back at you he has 1 min after he deagresses to be able to dock or jump. Its not an instant process. Hmmm high sec POSES... - No Capital ships allowed - check - All ewar batteries 100% effective - check (no siegeing dreads) - A large Caldari POS has 50,000,000 HP. Even 50 (1000 dps) Ravens would take 20 minutes to get the POS into reinforced. So POS guns + ANYONE else that wants to come shoot the outlaws isn't enough of a deterrent? Well you have stront - so you know EXACTLY when they'll be coming back to finish the job. You can't muster up a defence force? Are you not social enough to ask for help in local 'Hey guys free targets to shoot at'? Hell different outlaws may come after the war deccing outlaws and to get a good fight. You put up an expensive asset - have the means to defend it. I want more pvp in this game. Low sec pockets cut off from each other by 1 high sec system means nothing. You can still get through just fine. High sec alts still allow me to evade all of the system limiting repercussions of being an outlaw. I want to be able to engage in pvp anywhere in Eve, and I'm willing to do it in high sec with all the game mechanics working against me.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.11.19 19:02:00 - [324] Originally by: Martin Mckenna why bother having a sec stats then? Because undocking your hauler outside of Jita with being KOS to everyone would be slightly problematic? Etc?
Suzarn Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:30:00 - [325] I have read many posts stating that Omar's proposal is not sound from the Role Play perspective and I have to agree. It does not make any sense that an outlaw would be allowed into High-Sec under any circumstance. That being said, from a Role Play point of view, I do not believe that Concord or Navies would completely ignore mass amounts of NPC pirates to freely roam around High-Sec either. It also does not make any sense for an Agent to send the lone Merc (Player) to fight against twenty to a hundred or more NPC pirates when they have Concord and the Navies at their disposal in High-Sec. In Low-Sec this would make much more sense, since in Low-Sec, Concord and the Navies do not exist. Therefor NPC pirates should be completely removed from High-Sec and only be found in Low-Sec or Null-Sec, leaving only Courier missions and Factional encounter missions (Amarr Navy, Gallente Navy, etc) to be left in High-Sec. Then by adding a double or triple reward for Pirate faction encounters in Low-Sec. This would entice "carebears" to leave High-Sec and risk their ships for a more lucrative mission. This would accomplish the goals of both sides, keeping pirates out of High-Sec and creating more targets for PVP players.
Ana Vyr Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:53:00 - [326] Karma is a pain in the butt, isn't it? So, pirate players want more fights..this is completely understandable. The trouble is, you've got idiot pirate wannabes running around in high sec flipping cans and you've got low sec pirates camping gates, shooting anything that moves. This kinda stuff makes me rather unsympathetic to your plight. The lack of easy kills in areas you can actually use is, essentially, your own fault. I'd rather not have blinky red folks in high sec talking trash and generally trying to mess with me at every opportunity, thanks. I get plenty of that every time I get stupid and go into low sec. Its a shame that this is the case, but all the pirates I've ever run into don't like fair fights...they prefer lopsided fights followed by open mockery for being a newb pilot. Shrug.
Guttripper State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:56:00 - [327] Perhaps it was mentioned, but why not have "hidden" smuggler gates scattered around various systems of high sec? These gates are available for a limited time (day to a week), are mentioned by shady agents, and do not connect the systems directly as they are through normal means. That is, a gate from Jita might lead straight into Motsu while another gate from Motsu might really leap all the way to Amamake. Add that a key is required to activate them - offered through agents for ISK and / or loyalty points, and lower security pirates can casually mingle for a while. Meanwhile, high security players might be informed of these gates through a mission and have to guard it for a time. Any low security players arriving would require the high security player to engage - another reason to (occasionally) build a PVP ship in high security space. Of course, CCP would have to rework how Concord reacts without being the all-knowing, all-seeing entity that arrives instantaneously anywhere in the system and destroys without mercy. Just a thought.
Jazzebella	Posted - 2008.11.19 20:59:00 - [328] Looking at it from a RP perspective it doesn't make any sense to have criminals running around in secure areas. A terrorist or criminal wouldn't' be hanging around long in a police station or army base. As a matter of convince for players it was your choice and to get that security status. It was my choice to go get a lot of industrial skills, I want to PVP now, can I just have PVP skills given to me in place of my industrial skills? And would the opposite be true as well. If someone with high security status were to go into low sec would concord's protection extend further then just 0.5?
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 21:18:00 - [329] Edited by: Omarvelous on 19/11/2008 21:19:35 Originally by: Jazzebella Looking at it from a RP perspective it doesn't make any sense to have criminals running around in secure areas. A terrorist or criminal wouldn't' be hanging around long in a police station or army base. As a matter of convince for players it was your choice and to get that security status. It was my choice to go get a lot of industrial skills, I want to PVP now, can I just have PVP skills given to me in place of my industrial skills? And would the opposite be true as well. If someone with high security status were to go into low sec would concord's protection extend further then just 0.5? <Sigh> 1st paragraph - explain why NPC rats in high sec exist then. 2nd paragraph - How the hell do skills relate to being able to fly in a particular location?!?!? Your argument here would make sense if I was whining that I can't compete with an industrialist in making Ravens because I don't have a Hulk, I don't perfect refine skills, and I don't have perfect production efficiency, etc. My choices mean I will NEVER get sentry/Concord assistance. My corp mates cannot assist me without getting concord/sentries on themselves. I accept and deal with these consequences all the time. My point is that I want to be able to travel throughout Eve just like you. Except unlike you - I'm a valid target 100% of the time I am undocked wherever I am. That means I would need to get my head examined if I chose to undock at a crowded station. If someone with high sec status goes into low sec they have sentry gun assistance if a criminal act is committed against them. That's 300 dps for FREE. That means I can't use certain types of ships at a stargate or I will be destroyed (hence why gate camps in 0.0 are FAR more difficult to escape from aside from bubbles). Your friends can freely remote rep you and give you EWAR protection as long as you don't commit any crimes yourself. If you want a chance in low sec/null sec - realize the 1st thing anyone that lives in low sec/0.0 sec does. Fly a small escapable ship solo - fly in groups with bigger ships. Teamwork. You got ganked because you went alone. Pirates face the same problems in low sec that high sec people do without sentry gun assistance. They thrive because of teamwork. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Durty Nell Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.11.20 02:48:00 - [330] Mate I posted my question previously not for my benefit but for the benefit of your argument. IÆll give you a little more context for it, in the hope of shedding a little more light. When I started this game I ran missions. I had to travel to low sec during this time, where, I was inevitably relieved of my vessel and pod once or twice. Probably like you this mission running lasted all of say just a few days at most. I canÆt remember exactly since it was so long ago but I decided to move to low sec myself and work from there, thinking about it, it was somewhere between 3 and 5 days of starting my account. I made the choice because I enjoyed the challenge. Since then I have been involved in the type of policing action you described across the low sec area I worked in, and others, another month or so and I was successfully travelling between 0.0 and low sec, been involved in empire wars, moved into 0.0, been involved in massive fleet fights, contested space across multiple regions and much, much more. As youÆve by now no doubt guessed this toon is an alt. I chose to respond to your OP with this toon because I felt responses may have been coloured if I posted with my main. As I mentioned above I have lost ships and pods to outlaws in the past on quite a few occasions as a relatively new player. IÆve since returned the compliment to all but a very few of those pilots. The pilots I havenÆt as yet returned the compliment to have my utmost respect for the clever way in which they play. I guess this is just my nature and my ability to retain memories of competent competitive foes lol. In spite of that I canÆt discriminate between pirates or bears IÆve had the pleasure to call both styles of player my wingman in my time. I think both are necessary in EvE for very different reasons. I understand your motivation completely. I donÆt necessarily agree with your argument I think more work needs to be done in support of your initial premise, or possibly a complete reworking of your initial premise all together. I guess the main problem with your argument is the definition of PvP, which incidentally is in acceptance with my own definition of PvP. However many bears hold a very different notion of PvP. The development staff have encouraged PvP in many distinctly different ways. As a result of this encouragement many players have extended this to market superiority among other competitive player versus player possibilities. This is absolutely true to all but those hampered by incredulity. Wording is a very powerful tool to have at your fingertips, therefore from the above, PvP and fights are not necessarily perceived as the same thing depending upon which perspective it is viewed from. With that said if my initial question cannot be answered either succinctly or at length then the argument is at best incomplete, to all but the layman incongruous, and gives rise to yet further alarming caveat. Apologies to the tl;dr crowd. ------

AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.20 02:58:00 - [331] Edited by: AkRoYeR on 20/11/2008 03:00:33 Originally by: Po3tank i so stoned,you are so awsome i wish i could solo a pirate pod like you! Tank, you have no room to talk, all you do is hunt down mining ships anyway! And when competition does show up, you get your pirate buddies to come help you out.
Togg Bott Minmatar 801	Posted - 2008.11.20 02:58:00 - [332] even though i actually have a positive sec status... +0.6 iirc. i would LOVE to see this happen. i wouldnt have to go through 10-15 gate camps looking for a fight with someone who is not afraid to fight.. and having concord there to keep his buddies from blobbing me would be sweet as hell. sign me up NOW
Tatianna	Posted - 2008.11.20 03:22:00 - [333] Is this for real, pirates whining about being pirates?
Kirgan Caldari Pyrognome	Posted - 2008.11.20 04:07:00 - [334] Some of the best fights I have been involved in were with pirates in low sec, no smack or stupidity just a good fight had by all. Because of those experiences I would welcome the same in High sec, let the pirates in. Everyone seems to have issues with getting high sec players into low and null, this could help bridge that gap providing the opportunity some would normally not get. Though drop the beacon idea, seems a bit extreme. The Op's proposal is reasonable and well presented, though CCP could care less about players comments, so it's likely to never happen. Quote: Congress members should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.20 10:10:00 - [335] Originally by: Omarvelous CONCORD COULD SHADOW YOU AND INSTA PWN AN OUTLAW FOR ANY CRIMNAL ACT IN 0.0 - ELIMINATING Outlaw suicide ganks in high sec. There - I repeated it often enough - I am NOT looking to boost suicide ganks for outlaws. False: Concord can't block a alpha strike from a gun ship. Blocking outlaws fast enough to make impossible for them to suicide gank will simply make impossible to suicide gank for any players. So your idea will either: help suicide ganking allowing people to do if forever in high sec without problems from Concord before the attempt or make it impossible for all the players. both options are unacceptable.
Tzar'rim	Posted - 2008.11.20 10:15:00 - [336] Originally by: Venkul Mul So your idea will either: help suicide ganking allowing people to do if forever in high sec without problems from Concord before the attempt or make it impossible for all the players. both options are unacceptable. Oooh, I didn't even think of that, NOW I really understand why the OP want to get into high sec, being able to suicide gank till all eternity with no repercussions (apart from the shiploss). Hahahahha.... no!
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.20 10:23:00 - [337] Originally by: Emperor Salazar You and many others seem to be suffering under the delusion that there are no pvpers in high sec; that they are all in either low or null sec. Any experienced player would be able to tell you that this is far from the truth. We are not suffering of the delusion where every ship in high sec is a combat ship with a full PvP set up ready. Let's even suppose that Concord will istapop the pirate as soon as I fire, so he will get only 1 volley. Care to hypothesize how many more shuttle and pod kill we will get every day? For the cost of a insured T1 frigate (so practically 0) a pirate will be adding 1 killmail every 20 minutes or so. You doubt that they would not do that?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.20 10:32:00 - [338] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Space Wanderer You guys can't see this guy agenda? He clearly aims at suicide ganking in empire without the hassle of having to rebuild his standing. EPIC FAIL. Read my posts about having Concord shadow an Outlaw and insta destrpy them if they commit a crime. Do YOU fly AFK untanked ship hauling billions? No? Then come up with something else to mask your fears. Care to look the number of people that say they have got good BPO from shuttles? Your pirate in high sec will pilot a frigate and one volley any shuttle he see. Even if only 1 in 100 would drop something decent (no need for a BPO, even 10 m3 of salvage are sufficient) he will be ahead and at the same time he will be enjoying all the killmails he will get.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.20 10:35:00 - [339] Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Venkul Mul So your idea will either: help suicide ganking allowing people to do if forever in high sec without problems from Concord before the attempt or make it impossible for all the players. both options are unacceptable. Oooh, I didn't even think of that, NOW I really understand why the OP want to get into high sec, being able to suicide gank till all eternity with no repercussions (apart from the shiploss). Hahahahha.... no! The only repercussion from suicide ganking is that after getting to -5 you are not allowed in high sec. OP idea will remove that. Care to point out another repercussion? Being a valid target for other players is not one as most suicide gankers keep outside the gate grid, ready to warp wen a potential target appear.
Fennicus Amarr Shoot To Thrill	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:00:00 - [340] I support this idea and would like to join your newsletter, if and only if you are also prevented from docking at stations. The same holds for the NPC pirates, no? It would just be ludicrous if it were any other way. :)

Cadela Fria Amarr x13 X13 Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:07:00 - [341] You do the crime you do the time, simple as that. I've been -10 blinky, and I spent months getting back up so I could enter highsec again. This seemed and still seems fair to me. The argument "it's annoying that we can't get around without using carriers etc etc" is pathetic. If you want highsec access, put in the miniscule effort to get it..I pirated for a long time after my -10 time, and did so by the simple formula of: pirate, get sec status back up, pirate, sec status back up and so on.
Kia Corallis	Posted - 2008.11.20 11:40:00 - [342] Sorry but it needs to be said, no no no, explain instead why you have your nice 'Industrial alt', you want more fights? go attack another pirate, they enjoy that. you want to come to high sec then you have your 'alt' for it, pirates destroy, carebears build, in your nice low sec area with nobody building it soon stagnates where there is nobody to fight and no killmails coming, so why should you be allowed back into pastures green without working for it? If we work hard to try to break into low sec being podded by uber PvP pilot then you can do the same or ?
Tiirae The New Era HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.11.20 12:09:00 - [343] really op, you should just give up. All you want is the freedom to roam highsec as much as you want to get from A to B quicker or to pursue wartargets. You know full well that 99% of the people in highsec aren't going to attack a red blinker even if they are allowed to and have a huge advantage. They don't know how. All they care about is not losing ships and mods, and the best way to do that is not engage. the issue of rats being allowed in highsec is a non-starter. it's just a dumb gameplay fudge to allow people to run missions. it's got nothing to do with you. you keep hysterically listing all these so-called advantages you are giving away but you know full well they don't matter, cos as I said above, 99% of people in highsec just don't want to get involved. On the odd occasion you did find yourself confronted by a gang of anti-pirates in high sec you would just logoffski or dock up. with all those new rules against you there's no way you would ever fight. it really is incredibly sad that you have made low sec so hostile that you have nobody to shoot except other 'pirates', and you won't do that because gasp you might lose. tl;dr.... it's not gonna happen.
Caesar Khan	Posted - 2008.11.20 12:58:00 - [344] I have to kinda agree with OP here. As the game is now the trade as a bounty hunter is utterly useless. If the OP`s idea was included it would actually open up for alot of bounty hunter corp`s that could roam the empire looking for these pirates who was flashing red. They would be a new concorde wich killed "non aggro" pirates on sight.By "non aggro" i ofcourse mean that they havent fired at anyone yet. I think the idea is ok since,as OP says,it just benefit those who wants a free fight and collect a good bounty in high sec. This idea actually makes being a bounty hunter possible to the extent it was ment to be. So,i agree with OP
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:25:00 - [345] Originally by: Togg Bott even though i actually have a positive sec status... +0.6 iirc. i would LOVE to see this happen. i wouldnt have to go through 10-15 gate camps looking for a fight with someone who is not afraid to fight.. and having concord there to keep his buddies from blobbing me would be sweet as hell. sign me up NOW See - you get it - and ofc I would love to fight other outlaws in high sec with the threat of the party being crashed horribly by high sec characters. The chaos would be sweet! Originally by: Tatianna Is this for real, pirates whining about being pirates? Way to make yourself look like an idiot - this isn't a whine its a suggestion to enhance combat throughout Eve. Go back to your bridge. Originally by: Kirgan Everyone seems to have issues with getting high sec players into low and null, this could help bridge that gap providing the opportunity some would normally not get. Though drop the beacon idea, seems a bit extreme. The Op's proposal is reasonable and well presented, though CCP could care less about players comments, so it's likely to never happen. Great sig Exactly I want this to be a sort of a bridge betwen systems. I've ideas for adjusting low sec as well - but I'll start up another thread on that later. Originally by: Venkul Mul False: Concord can't block a alpha strike from a gun ship. The only ships that have to worry about an alpha strike from a high sec outlaw are AFK untanked ships. These ships currently have just as much to worry about being suicide ganked by non outlaws today. You deserve to lose your billions if you're stupid enough to AFK fly an untanked ship. Outlaws in highsec won't change that reality. Originally by: Tzar'rim Oooh, I didn't even think of that, NOW I really understand why the OP want to get into high sec, being able to suicide gank till all eternity with no repercussions (apart from the shiploss). Hahahahha.... no! Your intelligence seems to be dropping with every post you're making in this thread. You have NOT read what I've said abotu adjusting Concord towards Outlaws. - Outlaws would be shadowed by Concord ships the second they enter high sec. - The second they fire they would be insta popped by concord. - That leaves only ships weak enough to be alpha striked, vulnerable to suicide ganks. If you have billions - fit it in a properly tanked ship - and DON'T AFK fly. It takes time and coordination to coordinate a proper suicide gank with current mechanics - with mine the logistics would be impossible (assemble enough ships to alpha the target - AND make sure you're still coming out ahead cost wise since insurance won't cover your loss.) Originally by: Venkul Mul Care to hypothesize how many more shuttle and pod kill we will get every day? For the cost of a insured T1 frigate (so practically 0) a pirate will be adding 1 killmail every 20 minutes or so. You doubt that they would not do that? A non-AFK shuttle/frigate/pod is next to impossible to catch and kill in empire (no bubbles). The only thing that can is a smart bombing battleship. So let me get this straight, you think a pirate that is a valid target to ANYONE in Eve is going to sit his Battleship near a stargate to insta pop/pod kill pilots. Assuming NO one blobs him and removes him - he's willing to get concorded - and loses 80-100 mil (no insurance) just to get a shuttle/T1 ship/pod? You're saying hes going to do this every 20 minutes?! How paranoid are you?!?!?! cont... * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:28:00 - [346] Originally by: Venkul Mul Then come up with something else to mask your fears. Care to look the number of people that say they have got good BPO from shuttles? Your pirate in high sec will pilot a frigate and one volley any shuttle he see. Even if only 1 in 100 would drop something decent (no need for a BPO, even 10 m3 of salvage are sufficient) he will be ahead and at the same time he will be enjoying all the killmails he will get. Only smartbombs on a battleship (range and firepower are the issue - remember you can't be within 5km of stargates/statinos with smartbombs) will catch a piloted shuttle/T1 frigate. Unless you're hacking and know what every ship is carrying, you're not going to waste 100 mil isk every 20 minutes pumping out KMs. It happens in low sec because there is no concord there - you can just farm the gate provided no one else is willing to remove you. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Slinkus Gallentus Gallente Infinite Order	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:33:00 - [347] Edited by: Slinkus Gallentus on 20/11/2008 15:33:45 Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Furb Killer No Your choice to be a pirate, accept the consequences. I don't think I said I don't accept the consequences. Then you have no reason to post. If you accept the consequences then you really have nothing to say. Quote: I'm trying to add more variety to the game. No, you're trying to pick up cheap stuff from empire rather than paying lo-sec or 0.0 prices. You chose your game style. Live with it. cheers "Life is not one big joke. Life is 40,000 little jokes all lined up"
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:45:00 - [348] Edited by: Omarvelous on 20/11/2008 15:45:39 Originally by: Kia Corallis So why should you be allowed back into pastures green without working for it? If we work hard to try to break into low sec being podded by uber PvP pilot then you can do the same or ? Here's the problem. I 'DO THE TIME!!111eleventy!!1one' as everyone is so found of saying by ratting my sec status up. I'm no longer an outlaw. I can enter high sec. No one can legally shoot me anymore. No fights. ZZZZzzzzZZZZzzzz Originally by: Tiirae really op, you should just give up. tl;dr.... it's not gonna happen. I don't take suggestions from weak-minded people like you. You fear the possibilities of great fun in high sec. If you don't want to participate you don't have to - an outlaw in high sec won't initiate a damn thing with your carebear character. Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus No, you're trying to pick up cheap stuff from empire rather than paying lo-sec or 0.0 prices. You chose your game style. Live with it. You are DENSE. Read my posts on why I would NEVER shop for anything with an outlaw in high sec at a hub. Being kill on sight means my industrial high sec alt will continue to get me goods from high sec consequence free. You guys are showing how little pvp you have done and how little you know about game mechanics with stupid posts like this. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
faxtarious Minmatar Celestial Ascension	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:48:00 - [349] Originally by: Zytrel I've been having the same thought for some time now. :) It would actually allow players to police highsec themselves with close to zero risk. But I doubt that the "OMG, accept the consequences"-brigade will ever be able to see the bigger picture, and instead keep yelling at you. :) lol for a sec there I tough that eve was loaded with conservative carebears. I totaly agree with the idea
Slinkus Gallentus Gallente Infinite Order	Posted - 2008.11.20 15:58:00 - [350] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus No, you're trying to pick up cheap stuff from empire rather than paying lo-sec or 0.0 prices. You chose your game style. Live with it. You are DENSE. Read my posts on why I would NEVER shop for anything with an outlaw in high sec at a hub. Being kill on sight means my industrial high sec alt will continue to get me goods from high sec consequence free. You guys are showing how little pvp you have done and how little you know about game mechanics with stupid posts like this. Oooh tetchy. I read your whine yes. Who said you need to goto a hub? There are plenty of places you can buy cheaper than 0.0 ie. anywhere in Empire. You chose your game style. Live with it. cheers "Life is not one big joke. Life is 40,000 little jokes all lined up"

Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.20 16:17:00 - [351] Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus Oooh tetchy. I read your whine yes. Who said you need to goto a hub? There are plenty of places you can buy cheaper than 0.0 ie. anywhere in Empire. You chose your game style. Live with it. I'm sorry I didn't realize you are unable to comprehend the difference between a suggestion and a whine. I'm not saying - Crap! I cant get back into high sec!! This sucks!!! Now I have to rat my way back in!!!! I'm saying - I want more fights across eve! I COULD rat my sec status up and get back into high sec - but then no one would be allowed to shoot me. Why would I want that? Allow me into high sec and fight on YOUR terms. I enjoy my playstyle and the challenges it provides - I wish to be able to enjoy the outlaw playstyle all over eve. If you don't want to fight me in high sec you don't have to and you can keep on enjoying Eve the way you want to. Cheers. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Slinkus Gallentus Gallente Infinite Order	Posted - 2008.11.20 16:25:00 - [352] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus Oooh tetchy. I read your whine yes. Who said you need to goto a hub? There are plenty of places you can buy cheaper than 0.0 ie. anywhere in Empire. You chose your game style. Live with it. I'm sorry I didn't realize you are unable to comprehend the difference between a suggestion and a whine. I'm not saying - Crap! I cant get back into high sec!! This sucks!!! Now I have to rat my way back in!!!! I'm saying - I want more fights across eve! I COULD rat my sec status up and get back into high sec - but then no one would be allowed to shoot me. Why would I want that? Allow me into high sec and fight on YOUR terms. I enjoy my playstyle and the challenges it provides - I wish to be able to enjoy the outlaw playstyle all over eve. If you don't want to fight me in high sec you don't have to and you can keep on enjoying Eve the way you want to. Cheers. I'm sorry you are unable to start a reply without a personal attack. Maybe you should buy a copy of Dale Carnegie's classic book. I read your "point" and it's bogus. Hence why I called it a whine. If people want to have PvP then they know where to go - low sec or 0.0. The reason you want access to hi-sec empire is to take advantage of the better prices. When you lose your t2 ganker ship in a battle it costs you a lot more to replace it in 0.0 then in Empire. Your whine is fooling no-one. cheers "Life is not one big joke. Life is 40,000 little jokes all lined up"
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.20 16:28:00 - [353] Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus I read your "point" and it's bogus. Hence why I called it a whine. If people want to have PvP then they know where to go - low sec or 0.0. The reason you want access to hi-sec empire is to take advantage of the better prices. When you lose your t2 ganker ship in a battle it costs you a lot more to replace it in 0.0 then in Empire. Your whine is fooling no-one. I have a high-sec industrial hauler alt capable of getting AND making all the T2 ships and gear I need. So does any respectable pirate corp in Eve. I have 0 need to access high sec markets with this outlaw character directly.
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.	Posted - 2008.11.20 16:33:00 - [354] i like the idea myself, i mean yeah your an outlaw like everyone is saying no, u made your choice 2, but its alot worse for a pirate to be able to be shot by everyone in eve lol, not like they can attack first! so why not :)
Thudin	Posted - 2008.11.20 18:50:00 - [355] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus I read your "point" and it's bogus. Hence why I called it a whine. If people want to have PvP then they know where to go - low sec or 0.0. The reason you want access to hi-sec empire is to take advantage of the better prices. When you lose your t2 ganker ship in a battle it costs you a lot more to replace it in 0.0 then in Empire. Your whine is fooling no-one. I have a high-sec industrial hauler alt capable of getting AND making all the T2 ships and gear I need. So does any respectable pirate corp in Eve. I have 0 need to access high sec markets with this outlaw character directly. This! Best post ever!
Jazzebella	Posted - 2008.11.20 19:22:00 - [356] Quote: 1st paragraph - explain why NPC rats in high sec exist then. Faction's at War with one another, and they don't pod you so they never lose sec right? Navy fights hence all the missions to kill those factions from the agents. Quote: 2nd paragraph - How the hell do skills relate to being able to fly in a particular location?!?!? Your argument here would make sense if I was whining that I can't compete with an industrialist in making Ravens because I don't have a Hulk, I don't perfect refine skills, and I don't have perfect production efficiency, etc. You want to be given something instead of working/investing the time for it. Wanting the skills for something but not wanting to put in the time to get them.
Slinkus Gallentus Gallente Infinite Order	Posted - 2008.11.20 19:30:00 - [357] Originally by: Omarvelous I have a high-sec industrial hauler alt capable of getting AND making all the T2 ships and gear I need. So does any respectable pirate corp in Eve. I have 0 need to access high sec markets with this outlaw character directly. Ah so it must be the second reason then. You want to fly into hi-sec and look like a legitimate target. Then if someone does attack you can gang gank them. You want more opportunity to grief in hi-sec is all. cheers "Life is not one big joke. Life is 40,000 little jokes all lined up"
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.20 19:44:00 - [358] Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus Ah so it must be the second reason then. You want to fly into hi-sec and look like a legitimate target. Then if someone does attack you can gang gank them. You want more opportunity to grief in hi-sec is all. You seriously need to learn game mechanics. This is NOT possible at all with current game mechanics. If you attack an outlaw you are flagged to HIM and HIM alone. Not his corpmates. If his corpmates shot at you - they would get GCC (concorded in high sec). If his corpmates remote repaired him - they would get GCC. If his corpmates tried to jam you - they would get GCC. On the other hand. You, your friend - your friend's friend, even your enemies could show up. And start firing on the outlaw at any time or moment. If you're going to comment on pvp mechanics - make sure you actually know what you're talking about. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.20 19:49:00 - [359] Originally by: Jazzebella Quote: 1st paragraph - explain why NPC rats in high sec exist then. Faction's at War with one another, and they don't pod you so they never lose sec right? Navy fights hence all the missions to kill those factions from the agents. Quote: 2nd paragraph - How the hell do skills relate to being able to fly in a particular location?!?!? Your argument here would make sense if I was whining that I can't compete with an industrialist in making Ravens because I don't have a Hulk, I don't perfect refine skills, and I don't have perfect production efficiency, etc. You want to be given something instead of working/investing the time for it. Wanting the skills for something but not wanting to put in the time to get them. Why do you get a security status boost for killing people 'at war' with the factions? Concord likes you more for killing someone - because they are OUTLAWS. This is why you don't get bounties - just tags when you kill faction rats (Thukker Tribe) and you get bounties and sec status for killing outlaw pirate rats (Guristas). Sorry to burst your analogy. As for my motives. I want to be able to have more combat around eve. In high sec - if you choose to have nothing to do with it - you STILL will have that option. Currently - I rat up, and I'm a vlid target to no one - so no fighting occurs in high sec outside of stupid can flips, and wars. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Jazzebella	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:09:00 - [360] I really don't understand what he wants other then to pass through deserted high sec systems. He doesn't want to dock at stations to buy stuff alts can do that. He doesn't want assistance if attacked (no one in high sec PVPs unless they think they have a huge advantage). He doesn't want to go in any system with a decent number of people because he'll get killed pretty quickly so he won't risk anything more then a t1 frig or shuttle which is no difference from a pod except slower. Why not just use a pod? Did you want to hang out in the newbie areas and pop Ibis pilots or people afk in shuttles? Mine Veldspar? Whats the purpose? Trick people in attacking you? We have enough can flippers and we don't need you aswell. What you want to to essentially be blinky red in highsec. If you can't find PVP in low sec and 0.0 I don't know what to say. The purpose of High sec is to have a non PVP area. If the people in Highsec wanted to PVP you'd think they would come to low sec? Being Blinky red will not make people fight you. They will only fight you when they know you will lose.

Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:22:00 - [361] Edited by: Omarvelous on 20/11/2008 20:22:59 Originally by: Jazzebella The purpose of High sec is to have a non PVP area. If the people in Highsec wanted to PVP you'd think they would come to low sec? That in a nutshell explains how you've completely missed the point of Eve. You somehow think high sec is supposed to be perfectly safe. You've forgotten that Eve is supposed to be a harsh world. You essentially want Eve to be a consensual pvp game only. Check yes to fight - check no to be perfectly safe. L A M E
Zhenga Black Thorn Enterprises	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:27:00 - [362] NO
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:28:00 - [363] Originally by: Jazzebella he purpose of High sec is to have a non PVP area. If the people in Highsec wanted to PVP you'd think they would come to low sec? Being Blinky red will not make people fight you. They will only fight you when they know you will lose. War decs anyone? Again an idiot noob who know little of the game mechanics. Basically this idea would let you police your space (or someone competent, trust me there are pvpers in high sec). Going to low sec to hunt pirates is a *****; they can gang on you there not to mention the plethora of gatecamps. This way, you can own them in your home. But nah. Better to have CCP fight for you. That way you can hug your agent a little tighter in solace.
Jazzebella	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:38:00 - [364] Originally by: Omarvelous Edited by: Omarvelous on 20/11/2008 20:22:59 Originally by: Jazzebella The purpose of High sec is to have a non PVP area. If the people in Highsec wanted to PVP you'd think they would come to low sec? That in a nutshell explains how you've completely missed the point of Eve. You somehow think high sec is supposed to be perfectly safe. You've forgotten that Eve is supposed to be a harsh world. You essentially want Eve to be a consensual pvp game only. Check yes to fight - check no to be perfectly safe. Unfortunately for you the developers thus far, and most of the people here don't agree with your view of eve. High sec is very safe, and has been made even safer recently. Yes there are ways to die in PVP in highsec but they are costly, wardecs (if they are not in a NPC corp) and suicide gangs. Other then that highsec pvp IS consensual as intended. Apparently you missed the point on Security Status and why it the developers implemented it. I have seen your desired "Harsh" all out PVP before, Shadowbane, and its very bad for MMO business. Rule by 1 or 2 Corps/guilds everyone else dies and no new players allowed, they just get ganked when leaving the newbie zone and don't play again.
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:43:00 - [365] Originally by: Jazzebella Originally by: Omarvelous Edited by: Omarvelous on 20/11/2008 20:22:59 Originally by: Jazzebella The purpose of High sec is to have a non PVP area. If the people in Highsec wanted to PVP you'd think they would come to low sec? That in a nutshell explains how you've completely missed the point of Eve. You somehow think high sec is supposed to be perfectly safe. You've forgotten that Eve is supposed to be a harsh world. You essentially want Eve to be a consensual pvp game only. Check yes to fight - check no to be perfectly safe. Unfortunately for you the developers thus far, and most of the people here don't agree with your view of eve. High sec is very safe, and has been made even safer recently. Yes there are ways to die in PVP in highsec but they are costly, wardecs (if they are not in a NPC corp) and suicide gangs. Other then that highsec pvp IS consensual as intended. Apparently you missed the point on Security Status and why it the developers implemented it. I have seen your desired "Harsh" all out PVP before, Shadowbane, and its very bad for MMO business. Rule by 1 or 2 Corps/guilds everyone else dies and no new players allowed, they just get ganked when leaving the newbie zone and don't play again. PVP is not consensual. Consent would imply arena like scenarios. This is not the case. And high sec pvp is not expensive. You must be one of those people who again has no experience and believes the 50 million isk war dec fee that is posted on CCP's information page on wars. Not true at all. Hasn't been for a long time. High sec wars are cheap and easy to keep going. Hop corps? Another war dec on the way. Again? Sure I'll find you again. Yeah really consensual. As for suicide ganking/sec status; anyone can gank. With this system, those "known" gankers or potential gankers (as indicated by sec status and blinky red) will be KOS to everyone. SOOOO...those that are competent and who wish to engage on their terms can and will. Trust me. There are plenty of people that will fight while you carebear.
Jazzebella	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:49:00 - [366] Originally by: Emperor Salazar War decs anyone? Again an idiot noob who know little of the game mechanics. Basically this idea would let you police your space (or someone competent, trust me there are pvpers in high sec). Going to low sec to hunt pirates is a *****; they can gang on you there not to mention the plethora of gatecamps. This way, you can own them in your home. But nah. Better to have CCP fight for you. That way you can hug your agent a little tighter in solace. Yeah I have yet to be able to Wardec an NPC corp. Maybe you can tell me how since I am such a noob. And you can still avoid PVPing if your highsec corp is wardec'd. Log off and play another character or alt. Anyways the only time pvpers are in High sec is when they can't hack it in low sec or 0.0. They have to hope someone is dumb enough to attack them with 4 people waiting to rep them on the other side of the acceleration gate. And amazingly enough they are a lot of people that can't resist.
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.20 20:57:00 - [367] Edited by: Emperor Salazar on 20/11/2008 20:58:46 Originally by: Jazzebella Yeah I have yet to be able to Wardec an NPC corp. Maybe you can tell me how since I am such a noob. And you can still avoid PVPing if your highsec corp is wardec'd. Log off and play another character or alt. Anyways the only time pvpers are in High sec is when they can't hack it in low sec or 0.0. They have to hope someone is dumb enough to attack them with 4 people waiting to rep them on the other side of the acceleration gate. And amazingly enough they are a lot of people that can't resist. 1. I'd love to know where I mentioned NPC corps. 2. And avoiding pvp = pvp non consensual. If they are affecting your gameplay, clearly something non consensual has occurred. 3. Players who pvp in high sec do it for many reasons. Maybe they like to mission? Maybe they don't want to deal with pirates? Maybe they want to avoid the blobs of factional warfare and are instead looking for small side engagements? Maybe they are high sec pirates, hoping their targets will continue to do missions in their pimp mobiles during a war and provide a nice juicy target. I'm not going to say people don't use neutrals to rep them or what not in battles (seen it done and very annoying) but whatever. It's the nature of the beast. Again, you proving you know so little about this game. Experience comes with time my friend. Edit: if by NPCs you were referring to my CCP fighting for you statement: I was referring to the navies hunting outlaws for you aspect. Why have computer AI do something players could do themselves? Also, if you'd read some of my earlier posts in this thread, you'd see my reference to fan fest when the devs openly stated they are looking into having players police low sec. Why not extend to high sec as well?
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:10:00 - [368] Originally by: Jazzebella Originally by: Omarvelous Edited by: Omarvelous on 20/11/2008 20:22:59 Originally by: Jazzebella The purpose of High sec is to have a non PVP area. If the people in Highsec wanted to PVP you'd think they would come to low sec? That in a nutshell explains how you've completely missed the point of Eve. You somehow think high sec is supposed to be perfectly safe. You've forgotten that Eve is supposed to be a harsh world. You essentially want Eve to be a consensual pvp game only. Check yes to fight - check no to be perfectly safe. Unfortunately for you the developers thus far, and most of the people here don't agree with your view of eve. High sec is very safe, and has been made even safer recently. Yes there are ways to die in PVP in highsec but they are costly, wardecs (if they are not in a NPC corp) and suicide gangs. Other then that highsec pvp IS consensual as intended. Apparently you missed the point on Security Status and why it the developers implemented it. I have seen your desired "Harsh" all out PVP before, Shadowbane, and its very bad for MMO business. Rule by 1 or 2 Corps/guilds everyone else dies and no new players allowed, they just get ganked when leaving the newbie zone and don't play again. I can see why you post with an alt. With my suggestion of allowing outlaws in high sec they won't be able to do anything to you unless you attack them first. If you don't attack - then you just keep on doing your carebear thing. Nothing would change for you AT ALL. Again - how does my proposal THREATEN you in any way shape or form? Are the blinky red's on your overview going to throw you into a seizure? You are so BLIND and TERRIFIED of anything that you are missing out on a potentially amazing boost to combat in Eve. * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:14:00 - [369] Originally by: Jazzebella Unfortunately you don't have enough experience or friends to survive in low sec A witty retort used to stall for lack of anything better to say. BTW. Come up north (or even the low sec before tribute). I'll show you who has friends
Abduul Azeez Caldari Children Of Allah	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:16:00 - [370] Originally by: Omarvelous I can see why you post with an alt. Sadly I think this is his main Just check the character out in-game/corp/corp history. Just too young for the portrait to be coming through I guess (CCP portrait import thingy is the suck).

Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2008.11.20 21:52:00 - [371] I quite like the idea OP. Very nice.
FOl2TY8 Scorpion's Sting	Posted - 2008.11.20 22:52:00 - [372] I like the OP's idea as well. Nothing to lose as far as the empire people go and a very exciting junket for any flashy reds.
Kia Corallis	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:01:00 - [373] Okay it is getting rather long but managed to trudge through some of the drivel and weed out some useful bits, I think. I am a noob, only been playing for about 6 months, my only experience of PvP is having my haulers blown up by the inevitable gate campers. I can't say I wouldn't mind having a few easily recognisable Pirates/PvP players with experience flying around lets say 0.5 to 0.7 or something similar. Lets some of us small corp 'Carebears' get to know them, maybe get some info on how to PvP, assistance on how we actually get into Low/Null sec. Lets be honest there is no way I am going to even attempt to try and take on an experienced PvP pilot without dying horribly. Yes it may bring some of the PvP pilots back to become 'Bounty Hunters', it will help to bridge the ever increasing gap between the carebears and PvP as in the High sec low sec gap. Unfortunately there are still some people out there that can and do go through loopholes, don't ask me what, suicide gankers and the likes I have no idea of, that will be where some people get their kicks, if they do, blacklist them, concord them as they enter whatever. But sorry the original point is valid and is to me a good suggestion up to a point, with a little thought it could be possible, getting some good fights? not so sure about that, I in no way could supply you with that sport with my current knowledge.
Gorefacer Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works	Posted - 2008.11.20 23:32:00 - [374] I'm not a pirate and will probably never be one. Also when I go to empire I don't linger to PVP. However it sounds like this proposal is bad for none and potentially good for some. While it wouldn't likely benefit me in slightest I'd support this. Nothing wrong with having more options/freedoms in EVE. It's one of the main reasons I continue to play it. Irrational fear over danger in a virtual world is a sad thing to witness. "You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.21 00:02:00 - [375] Originally by: Gorefacer While it wouldn't likely benefit me in slightest I'd support this. Nothing wrong with having more options/freedoms in EVE. It's one of the main reasons I continue to play it. Irrational fear over danger in a virtual world is a sad thing to witness. My thoughts exactly. Maybe you haven't dabbled in pvp extensively - but this suggestion could give you a chance to check it out under circumstances that favor you greatly. If you tried to fight an Outlaw in low sec/0.0, there is no concord there to prevent his corpmates from overwhelming you. I'm happy to see you're willing to see more freedoms and options in a game! Originally by: Kia Corallis Okay it is getting rather long but managed to trudge through some of the drivel and weed out some useful bits, I think. I am a noob, only been playing for about 6 months, my only experience of PvP is having my haulers blown up by the inevitable gate campers. I can't say I wouldn't mind having a few easily recognisable Pirates/PvP players with experience flying around lets say 0.5 to 0.7 or something similar. Lets some of us small corp 'Carebears' get to know them, maybe get some info on how to PvP, assistance on how we actually get into Low/Null sec. Lets be honest there is no way I am going to even attempt to try and take on an experienced PvP pilot without dying horribly. Yes it may bring some of the PvP pilots back to become 'Bounty Hunters', it will help to bridge the ever increasing gap between the carebears and PvP as in the High sec low sec gap. Unfortunately there are still some people out there that can and do go through loopholes, don't ask me what, suicide gankers and the likes I have no idea of, that will be where some people get their kicks, if they do, blacklist them, concord them as they enter whatever. But sorry the original point is valid and is to me a good suggestion up to a point, with a little thought it could be possible, getting some good fights? not so sure about that, I in no way could supply you with that sport with my current knowledge. Your honesty and open mindedness would do wonders to your fellow 'carebears'. Your willingness to learn pvp is one of the main ways I have grown my corp. I took a complete NOOB in a T1 frigate who asked for help in the forums back in July, and now he is one of our top combat pilots because he had the same curiosity and desire to learn how to fight in this game. Currently its very difficult to recruit like-minded people because their first few tastes of pvp - the odds are horribly stacked against them. My suggestion would greatly open doors of opportunity for new people to try out pvp combat. I appreciate the support from the last few posters - people should work past an irrational fear of the unknown and take a hard look at this well-thought out proposal, and realize it would be a good thing for Eve. Even a carebear that chooses not to fire 1 single shot at another player (say a Hulk pilot) can benefit. WHy? More combat would greatly increase the demand for ships -> raw materials -> industry. I hear so much about price deflation in this game - more combat would be a great spark for generating more demand!
Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.11.21 03:06:00 - [376] Originally by: Space Wanderer You guys can't see this guy agenda? He clearly aims at suicide ganking in empire without the hassle of having to rebuild his standing. Lets say, for one moment, that the OP does, in fact, want to suicide gank without worrying about his security status. Now, according to his idea, you would not recieve insurance when concorded in highsec (as an outlaw). A battleship setup, to 1 shot a untanked T1 hauler would cost around 120 - 150 million isk. Now, considering on average, only 50% of the loot survives, the pirate would only suicide gank on someone hauling 300 million isk in "stuff", in an un-tanked, AFK hauler. I know some people do do that, but seriously.. do you think a pirate could "make a living" off of that? I seriously hope not! PS: I think its a bad idea, but not for the bears of highsec.. its a bad idea for pirates . I do support it though.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2008.11.23 10:18:00 - [377] Originally by: Ratchman I have no problem with the idea of outlaws being able to travel through high-sec (I'd like the option of hunting them down when they intrude), but you have to counter the suicide gank, and I'm not sure anyone has effectively solved that. The solution to that one is actually fairly easy (and one which should have been done long ago). Concord, being cops, declare the wreck a crime scene. Anyone attempting to access it are locked down and blown up by Concord for interfering with evidence/stealing. Thus you suicide and gain nothing because your hauler just got melted. Honestly - really should have been the case day one. Concord letting anyone loot a wreck of a ship illegally destroyed in front of them was always quite silly. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2008.11.23 10:35:00 - [378] Originally by: Emperor Salazar [In all honesty, I don't see why you are opposed to this implementation as the op is putting it out. The main points I've seen against it are 1) increase in suicide ganks and 2) easy access to market. Easy access to market is also fixed by a fairly simple mechanic. In Null Sec Alliances which control stations can limite who may dock there via standings settings (only Blue etc.) If we were to, say, allow pirates to come to High Sec and they were able to get to a station and were known outlaws they could simply find the same thing a red in null sec would find. The doors are closed and you're stuck outside, probably with sentry guns firing on you and Concord on the way. Access to market solved. If you're too much of a baddie they don't let you dock and call the cops. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
DiDGE1	Posted - 2008.11.24 17:20:00 - [379] I second Omarvelous' suggestion. As long as the noobs are made aware of the dangers of solo attacking an experienced capsuleer. (This is my only real concern, as id hope all obvious loop holes suicide ganking etc would be catered for) As a fairly new PVPer, id quite happily accept some legal targets without the worry of being mobbed by my target's friends. It would open up the PVP options, significantly... To those that WANTED it. From an outlaw's perspective i think it would give them a great sense of danger, to enter high sec. Just the same way as most people get a sense of danger from entering low sec. It would likely reduce entry point gate camps (a bit), thus, likely opening up low sec somewhat. It would get more peeeps pew pewing! It would potentially get people working together more, in high sec.... Im talking about ad hoc outlaw hunt fleets. Improving the MMO aspect of EVE. I would suggest 0.5 > 0.8 are valid systems for outlaws, above that i'd consider concord to be more strict, in a role play stance, fearing for core NPC corp assets. Giving the mega carebears a feeling of additional security in 0.9 & 1.0 (even though they are realistically no more safe in 1.0 as they are in 0.5). Peace!
Goyda Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.24 17:22:00 - [380] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom Originally by: Emperor Salazar [In all honesty, I don't see why you are opposed to this implementation as the op is putting it out. The main points I've seen against it are 1) increase in suicide ganks and 2) easy access to market. Easy access to market is also fixed by a fairly simple mechanic. In Null Sec Alliances which control stations can limite who may dock there via standings settings (only Blue etc.) If we were to, say, allow pirates to come to High Sec and they were able to get to a station and were known outlaws they could simply find the same thing a red in null sec would find. The doors are closed and you're stuck outside, probably with sentry guns firing on you and Concord on the way. Access to market solved. If you're too much of a baddie they don't let you dock and call the cops. Ok, for the record, I have access to the SAME market you all do. The idea of 'easy' access is simply stupid. We have ALTS, there are courier contracts... Also I can pod my way through high sec if need be, so again, SEC status means nothing in this sense. I'm thinking that the general against mentality is fear of pirates/low sec people ganking them while they're AFK mining or missioning. And truthfully it doesn't take that long ratting in 0.0 or .3 > to get to -4.0 and go back into high sec. maybe not 1.0 but still. So you're not really safe, jihadswarm proved that. Get used to it, the safest place is docked in a station. Do I want to go into 1.0 ? Not with this char, but I think the point is valid and is a good idea. I might be -10 but I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way.

AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.25 03:02:00 - [381]
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.26 17:50:00 - [382] I'd be happy to see this post moved to the game design forum if it would receive more attention from DEVs. Maybe less panicky responses there as well. To the last few supporters - thanks. Its hard to imagine with my suggestions (that eliminate the potential for abuse) why carebears in high sec would be terrified of a golden opportunity to fight in high sec on their terms.
Troezar Fatality.	Posted - 2008.11.26 18:21:00 - [383] Originally by: Omarvelous I'd be happy to see this post moved to the game design forum if it would receive more attention from DEVs. Maybe less panicky responses there as well. To the last few supporters - thanks. Its hard to imagine with my suggestions (that eliminate the potential for abuse) why carebears in high sec would be terrified of a golden opportunity to fight in high sec on their terms. Because carebears by definition don't want to fight on any terms
Azadeh Lawliet	Posted - 2008.11.26 19:15:00 - [384] I'm wondering why people continue to assume the OP wants to get into high-sec to buy things? He's already stated, in a lot of his posts in this thread, that the market isn't the reason behind his suggestion. At least attempt to read a few of the replies to the post, and get a feel for what was already discussed. I haven't formulated a complete opinion on this particular idea, but I do agree that low-sec definitely needs a jump-start. Also, I quite like you, Omarvelous. You aren't whining, or raging, at the responses you're getting. Good for you!
Jezala Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.11.26 19:20:00 - [385] The OP suggestion is actually a good one. It basically takes some of the enforcement actions out of the NPCs' hands and puts then in the hands of the players. In truth, all this really does is put the outlaws at more risk of getting killed by other players. Another positive aspect would be in the increase in socialization between the ebil piratey peeps and the rest of the general empire populace. What good is it to be an notorious 200 mil bounty outlaw when you can't even advertise yourself in Jita in anything but a shuttle or pod which is a hell of a lot harder to catch than say a cruiser or battleship. There are a few of issues that I feel needs to be addressed first. 1. Covert-ops cloaking ships will negate much of the risk of traveling through empire. Outlaws should not be allowed to travel unfettered through high-sec which covert-ops, recons, and blockade runners would allow them to do. Nor should outlaws be able to cloak-->align-->uncloak-->warp which would also give almost unrestricted access throughout high sec. 2. Players will need a new identification state different from "blinking red" to distinguish between outlaw and criminal activity. It's already there in the overview, all the players have to do is change their settings but this is something that needs to be fixed at the overview default level. 3. As for abusing the suicide ganking penalties....I don't have a good suggestion for that. It's not like we're going to see 10 outlaw BS hanging out at the gate in Niarja because that's just asking to get slaughtered by the local pvp corps. Then again it doesn't stop them from pre-postioning gank BS in a mission running system and suicide ganking the **** out of some stupid ass mission runner that was fitted with 5 bil worth of mods.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.26 20:12:00 - [386] Originally by: Jezala The OP suggestion is actually a good one. It basically takes some of the enforcement actions out of the NPCs' hands and puts then in the hands of the players. In truth, all this really does is put the outlaws at more risk of getting killed by other players. Another positive aspect would be in the increase in socialization between the ebil piratey peeps and the rest of the general empire populace. What good is it to be an notorious 200 mil bounty outlaw when you can't even advertise yourself in Jita in anything but a shuttle or pod which is a hell of a lot harder to catch than say a cruiser or battleship. There are a few of issues that I feel needs to be addressed first. 1. Covert-ops cloaking ships will negate much of the risk of traveling through empire. Outlaws should not be allowed to travel unfettered through high-sec which covert-ops, recons, and blockade runners would allow them to do. Nor should outlaws be able to cloak-->align-->uncloak-->warp which would also give almost unrestricted access throughout high sec. 2. Players will need a new identification state different from "blinking red" to distinguish between outlaw and criminal activity. It's already there in the overview, all the players have to do is change their settings but this is something that needs to be fixed at the overview default level. 3. As for abusing the suicide ganking penalties....I don't have a good suggestion for that. It's not like we're going to see 10 outlaw BS hanging out at the gate in Niarja because that's just asking to get slaughtered by the local pvp corps. Then again it doesn't stop them from pre-postioning gank BS in a mission running system and suicide ganking the **** out of some stupid ass mission runner that was fitted with 5 bil worth of mods. Allow me to address your concerns. 1) Cloaking is disabled by NPCs currently anyways - commit a crime in low sec - hop in a ship with a cloak and go to high sec. You get an error message when you try to activate your cloak. 2) Sure - I support an overview haul to distinguish a criminal from someone with killrights. 3) I already stated earlier, my suggestion would have Concord shadow the Criminal the second he jumps into high sec. They could even have the Outlaw perma locked (thus preventing a cloak). Should the Outlaw try to suicide gank - Concord would insta pop him and nullify his insurance. Then suicide ganking is left for people of a high sec status (yep its ironic).
Jezala Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.11.26 20:30:00 - [387] Originally by: Omarvelous Allow me to address your concerns. 1) Cloaking is disabled by NPCs currently anyways - commit a crime in low sec - hop in a ship with a cloak and go to high sec. You get an error message when you try to activate your cloak. 2) Sure - I support an overview haul to distinguish a criminal from someone with killrights. 3) I already stated earlier, my suggestion would have Concord shadow the Criminal the second he jumps into high sec. They could even have the Outlaw perma locked (thus preventing a cloak). Should the Outlaw try to suicide gank - Concord would insta pop him and nullify his insurance. Then suicide ganking is left for people of a high sec status (yep its ironic). On the cloaking topic, you're mixing global criminal status with outlaw status. With a global criminal status you're going to die either way to Concord. I was addressing the situation of an outlaw traveling through high-sec without a global criminal status. As for suicide ganking, I'm somewhat of mind to allow outlaws to participate in suicide ganking but with increased penalties. Maybe nullifying insurance is enough, maybe not. In practice though, distinguishing a suicide gank from an accidental aggression that results in a ship destruction is actually quite difficult to do via game algorithms.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.11.26 20:43:00 - [388] I've always been anti-pirate but this restriction always seemed a bit weird. I think this would be fine. Outlaws don't have a bright future in high-sec, and lockout from high-sec isn't so much a punishment as an inconvenience just due to the nature of the game (we all have three character slots and it takes mere hours to train for a hauler). What are they going to do anyway, go buy a HAC from Jita and try not to get popped on their journey back? Would be interesting, to say the least. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2008.11.26 21:05:00 - [389] Originally by: Goyda Ok, for the record, I have access to the SAME market you all do. The idea of 'easy' access is simply stupid. We have ALTS, there are courier contracts... Also I can pod my way through high sec if need be, <snip> Yeah - Alts are an entirely different problem. A lot of issues with EVE would be sorted (and probably different ones which would need addressing created) if there were a way to get rid of Alts. Obviously nothing stops an Alt but it is a level of extra effort. And it would also prevent an Outlaw from station jockeying. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.26 21:19:00 - [390] Instead of this Id rather lowsec get buffed/fixed first.

Maddrox27	Posted - 2008.11.26 21:33:00 - [391] I support letting outlaws back into high sec given that the circumstances or mechanics could be changed up a bit so that they didn't have any reason to start causing any trouble. Suggestions to change that Prohibit them from insuring ships or negate insurance payouts when killed by concord Limit market access Prohibit them from faction warfare ( price of low sec rating ) charge extra tax on buying and selling ( based on sec rating ) set system access based on rating for instance 0.9^ off limits to anyone with -9.0 or higher sec rating ect, ect ... I think that this would essentially give players more options and make the game overall more interesting, and yes i'm a carebear but i still do support this because i think it would be interesting and would open up more possibilities in the game.
Skraeling Shortbus Caldari Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.11.26 21:57:00 - [392] Originally by: Maddrox27 Suggestions to change that Prohibit them from insuring ships or negate insurance payouts when killed by concord Limit market access Prohibit them from faction warfare ( price of low sec rating ) charge extra tax on buying and selling ( based on sec rating ) set system access based on rating for instance 0.9^ off limits to anyone with -9.0 or higher sec rating ect, ect ... I think that this would essentially give players more options and make the game overall more interesting, and yes i'm a carebear but i still do support this because i think it would be interesting and would open up more possibilities in the game. More options your list would rule out even wanting to bother with it.
Gambit8	Posted - 2008.11.26 22:39:00 - [393] Edited by: Gambit8 on 26/11/2008 22:40:53 its called a compromise. Want back into high sec with a Low sec rating ? it wouldn't be fair to allow outlaws back into empire without some sort of compromise. Seems fair to me.. considering that allowing those deemed as outlaws back into empire is no benefit to a majority of the empire citizens.. It makes no difference to me whether or not it ever happens I just thought it would be interesting and give players more stuff to do ingame till ambulation. players that chose the Pirate path knew eventually they wouldn't be allowed back into empire.. but that didn't stop them , but now they want back into empire .. Ok thats cool , But should we really really give them all of the privledges in empire as players that have good sec standings ? NO.. they should be treated as criminals still .. They should be limited like a parolee. Edit: posted on wrong account
Vj Fury Caldari Elite Secret Society	Posted - 2008.11.26 23:28:00 - [394] TBH its not a bad idea Like others suggested there has to be some sort of balance. let pirates back into High security zones but at a disadvantage to them. Allow's us to police high sec ourselves and be able to hunt bounties and take breaks from our carebearism. but as mentioned there has to be some sort of disadvanages and i have seen some ok idea's posted that would be fair seeing as to how they have the advantage in low sec. we should have the advantage in high sec , Take away their insurance , they are freely attackable , Limit a few of their other options so that they don't have any reason to just hang around , but to allow those of us that don't feel like going lowsec to pvp the opportunity to fight when we feel the need or urge.
doom5673	Posted - 2008.11.27 01:23:00 - [395] What I want to see at a base level, is stopping the navies from attacking outlaws. Everything will remain the same, the outlaws will be able to be attacked by any player who wishes to do so, if the outlaw fires on a non-aggressed player, then he is merely concorded. Most people here seem to think that if outlaws are allowed into highsec, theyll just start ganking left and right, but thats not what is going to happen. We need none of this market restriction stuff, if you restrict the market for outlaws, then this would all be pointless. As someone said earlier, this would greatly help fill the gap that is being placed in between high sec and low/null. I hope to see this implemented, but I cant say I will get my hopes up. =/
DiDGE1	Posted - 2008.11.27 14:46:00 - [396] how about this in addition... Enter a whole new take on bounty hunting!... when you go to an agent, the agent will offer you a mission to pop an actual outlaw that is currently a few jumps inside high sec, roughly equating skills and ship to find a good match for the mission runner, the mission would have a beacon (justified through roleplay) on the mission target! - The missions will obviously be very time critical as the outlaw may not be in high sec for long. Hence the "few jumps inside". As its quite likely that the outlaw would get away, there should be minimal hit on standings for failure. Peace
Crucifier The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.11.27 15:12:00 - [397] Originally by: Kia Corallis Okay it is getting rather long but managed to trudge through some of the drivel and weed out some useful bits, I think. I am a noob, only been playing for about 6 months, my only experience of PvP is having my haulers blown up by the inevitable gate campers. I can't say I wouldn't mind having a few easily recognisable Pirates/PvP players with experience flying around lets say 0.5 to 0.7 or something similar. Lets some of us small corp 'Carebears' get to know them, maybe get some info on how to PvP, assistance on how we actually get into Low/Null sec. Lets be honest there is no way I am going to even attempt to try and take on an experienced PvP pilot without dying horribly. Yes it may bring some of the PvP pilots back to become 'Bounty Hunters', it will help to bridge the ever increasing gap between the carebears and PvP as in the High sec low sec gap. Unfortunately there are still some people out there that can and do go through loopholes, don't ask me what, suicide gankers and the likes I have no idea of, that will be where some people get their kicks, if they do, blacklist them, concord them as they enter whatever. But sorry the original point is valid and is to me a good suggestion up to a point, with a little thought it could be possible, getting some good fights? not so sure about that, I in no way could supply you with that sport with my current knowledge. This is exacly the mindset that makes you a non carebear. You should join a 0.0 corp imo.
5pinDizzy Amarr Umpteenth Podding	Posted - 2008.11.27 15:13:00 - [398] Makes me sad when people seriously comment. "Oh, EVERY PLAYER who isn't a noob or an idiot obviously organises a second account, paid or trial, logs it in simultaneously, and switches between sessions while they use it to get a peep into the next system". Welcome to alts online indeed. At least suggest that your corpmates love utterly dull and unwanted errands like scouting for you at a moments notice. Everyone in this thread who seriously suggests sec status ever had any real impact on most pirates anyway when this is Alts Online is deluding themselves. The OP suggestion is a good suggestion, because it makes it fairer for more honest players who choose not be part of alts online, they need a way for shopping/supplies whether it's likely to be a system where they are shot at by everyone in highsec or some sort of interbus system. I've been in several pirate corps at one time, and they ALL used alts to deliver their shopping. Because noone wants to spend 20 hours scraping bits together from the lowsec market running through the most dangerous systems of the game. Because anyone not using alts that runs out of cash, is not in an alliance and -10 in lowsec have a gigantic almost unassailable pit to dig themselves out of.
Mussaschi	Posted - 2008.11.27 15:15:00 - [399] Hm, still like the idea. As long as this could not be used for suicide ganks, it seems natural, though certain delicts like stealing would need to be addressed. Having bountry/pirate agents matching comparable SP characters for counter missions would be fun. eg. One giving the order to defend a cargo transport, one to destroy it. Could be some kind of mail logic. You e.g. contract such an agent like an R&D Agent, and get a mail from the agent, that such an event could take place now, when a pairing was found. Sounds like a lot of fun to me.


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