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Bimjo Caldari Domination. Sc0rched Earth	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:23:00 - [211] Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Bimjo but you seem confused ? Its been a long day heehee hey,if anything ,this thread proves we are passionate about EVE
Davina Braben	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:26:00 - [212] Quote: Couldnt pursue them if I committed a crime in low sec - Concord would still bbq me. Thats fine - the target could still escape with my request. A lot of the carebear responses I'm getting in this thread show me you guys have NO CLUE how pvp works in this game. I am NOT introducing non-consentual pvp into high sec. I STILL won't be able to gank you unless I want to lose my ship to concord. If you dont want to fight - YOU DONT HAVE TO!!!! You could see some flashy outlaws in high sec - and they couldnt do anything to you unless you decided to engage them. You could just pass them by and NOTHING would happen. But if they engaged you first you wouldn't have a GCC and they'd be flashy red to you, right? Also if they engaged you first you could then run to high sec if you were camping a low sec-high sec gate? I'm not buying that being flashy red in high sec is a massive disadvantage since there's a fair amount of PVP that revolves around being flashy red on purpose in high sec. Also as I say, not being able to travel through high sec is a real inconvenience for pirates. I'm not sure my brain is up to working out what removing that would mean. Probably more people day tripping into low sec to PVP for a bit?
Black Scorpio	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:26:00 - [213] Originally by: Bimjo Originally by: Sebea Originally by: Bimjo but you seem confused ? Its been a long day heehee hey,if anything ,this thread proves we are passionate about EVE :)
Slade Trillgon Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:52:00 - [214] What if pilots maintaining low sec status lost all protection from CONCORD, lost all rights too protection from corp mates when a non-war target attacks them for being a pirate in high sec, but restrict it to -5 to -.01 pirates? I also want to derail into bounty hunting options but I will refrain from that Slade Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine. ≡v≡
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 22:58:00 - [215] Im going to ignore the trolling and ask why are rats allowed in high sec? Look at the last page where I asked this. Why can't a similar system be in place for players. Outlaws ought to be allowed to fly in high sec and defend themselves vs players without NPC assistance. The game has given YOU all the advantages in dealing with an outlaw in high sec - what more can you want?! You are KOS to all of eve, and you cannot initiate a criminal act without concord destroying you and no insurance. I think its ludicrous that an NPC pirate can operate in high sec - and attack miners at belts, attack you in missions. Yet a player outlaw can't so much as step foot in high sec without being swarmed by NPC police. My suggestion will do NOTHING to those that have no interest in pvp. It will however give those in high sec a desire to pvp a good chance at it. Infact - pirates could attack other pirates in high sec as well - high sec players could in turn attack both sides. Think of the possibilities! I always thought it would be cool if pirate faction agents existed in low sec and could give you cool smuggling/criminal missions (maybe have another use for those NPC drugs, or maybe you could haul and trade boosters) to bring into high sec. High sec players could then engage you and screw up your mission. The roles would be reversed! I've said it a thousand times in this thread. I already have and accept the consequences of my actions: - Everyone can shoot me freely and pod me. - Sentry guns/concord will NEVER assist me. - My corpmates are not allowed to assist me. - If I were stupid enough to purchase a battleship in high sec and fit it out - I would be swarmed and destroyed. I would STILL use a high sec alt for my shopping needs. You know what? I'll make it even easier. An outlaw entering high sec could have a beacon on them (you could set your overview to show this). You could tell where they are at ALL times if they're undocked. You could warp to that beacon and dispose of the outlaw if you wanted to. You could then police your own high sec in much the same way the NPC police do. I want more options and diversity in this game. High sec is a snooze fest - my suggestion would spice it up a little. With NO risk to someone who doesn't want to participate. Its WIN freakin' WIN for non-outlaws!!! * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.18 23:05:00 - [216] Edited by: Omarvelous on 18/11/2008 23:05:39 Originally by: Davina Braben But if they engaged you first you wouldn't have a GCC and they'd be flashy red to you, right? Also if they engaged you first you could then run to high sec if you were camping a low sec-high sec gate? I'm not buying that being flashy red in high sec is a massive disadvantage since there's a fair amount of PVP that revolves around being flashy red on purpose in high sec. Also as I say, not being able to travel through high sec is a real inconvenience for pirates. I'm not sure my brain is up to working out what removing that would mean. Probably more people day tripping into low sec to PVP for a bit? Yes they would - I could engage freely in self defence. Yes I could pursue them into high sec with my proposal. - You can't shoot first. Everyone else can shoot at you first. - Concord/Sentries will NEVER assist you. - Your corpmates cannot remote rep or provide ewar assistance. - Your corpmates have no rights to attack your aggressor unless the aggressor attacks them too. How are those reasons ALONE not MASSIVE disadvantages to an outlaw? Currently travel from one place in eve to another with high sec in the way for a pirate consists of. - Hop in shuttle/pod/frigate/cruiser - travel to destination. - Have friend/alt in carrier store larger ships/mods/ - Light cyno for carrier pilot to move your goods. OR - Alt in freighter loads up your battleships and moves them to low sec for you under your protection when coming through into low sec. Day trips to low sec means passing through the gate camps that carebears whine about ALL the time. Now outlaws can be shot at in your neck of the woods - where you could setup a gate camp - without sentry fire so you could setup a FAR more effective one. Why wouldn't you want that?! * your signature file is too wide. Please note that we allow images no larger than 400x120 at 24,000 kb. - Fallout
Goyda Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 00:14:00 - [217] I think it's a good idea. I have no concern for my sec status, and for those who think using an alt is alot of work, well what's the diff than me flying myself there. If I'm flash red in high sec where why would I use this char to fly goods out ? I mean that makes no sense. And if I'm going to do it with this char, why would it be more work for me to use an alt....I think this is a good idea, however I have no desire to go to high sec. I always wondered why there were NPC pirates in high sec, that does make little sense.
Souvera Corvus Gallente SPORADIC MOVEMENT FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.11.19 00:36:00 - [218] Edited by: Souvera Corvus on 19/11/2008 00:36:37 Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Furb Killer No Your choice to be a pirate, accept the consequences. Do you wet yourself a little when someone goes flashy on your overview? Quote: No, I think 'Target'.
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.11.19 00:37:00 - [219] Originally by: Omarvelous Im going to ignore the trolling and ask why are rats allowed in high sec? Look at the last page where I asked this. Why can't a similar system be in place for players. Outlaws ought to be allowed to fly in high sec and defend themselves vs players without NPC assistance. The game has given YOU all the advantages in dealing with an outlaw in high sec - what more can you want?! You are KOS to all of eve, and you cannot initiate a criminal act without concord destroying you and no insurance. I think its ludicrous that an NPC pirate can operate in high sec - and attack miners at belts, attack you in missions. Yet a player outlaw can't so much as step foot in high sec without being swarmed by NPC police. My suggestion will do NOTHING to those that have no interest in pvp. It will however give those in high sec a desire to pvp a good chance at it. Infact - pirates could attack other pirates in high sec as well - high sec players could in turn attack both sides. Think of the possibilities! I always thought it would be cool if pirate faction agents existed in low sec and could give you cool smuggling/criminal missions (maybe have another use for those NPC drugs, or maybe you could haul and trade boosters) to bring into high sec. High sec players could then engage you and screw up your mission. The roles would be reversed! I've said it a thousand times in this thread. I already have and accept the consequences of my actions: - Everyone can shoot me freely and pod me. - Sentry guns/concord will NEVER assist me. - My corpmates are not allowed to assist me. - If I were stupid enough to purchase a battleship in high sec and fit it out - I would be swarmed and destroyed. I would STILL use a high sec alt for my shopping needs. You know what? I'll make it even easier. An outlaw entering high sec could have a beacon on them (you could set your overview to show this). You could tell where they are at ALL times if they're undocked. You could warp to that beacon and dispose of the outlaw if you wanted to. You could then police your own high sec in much the same way the NPC police do. I want more options and diversity in this game. High sec is a snooze fest - my suggestion would spice it up a little. With NO risk to someone who doesn't want to participate. Its WIN freakin' WIN for non-outlaws!!! You should update your op with some of this juicy goodness, cause its got a lot of ideas that are good, and follows CCP's want to "give players the tools" bits. Its an idea that could use work, and polish, but its pretty good, and could bring some fun back into a game thats grinding down. If you remember the privateer wars, those, those were fun! There was fighting everywhere, constantly, and it was awesome. Ever since that went away, it felt like EVE lost a little something
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno	Posted - 2008.11.19 01:05:00 - [220] aw man you have me in tears, its so damn obvious that oma is your char youre one special brand of moron unbelievable - Boosters and PirateProfessions
Xipheas Evolving Strategies	Posted - 2008.11.19 01:07:00 - [221] This is quite an interesting topic when you filter out all the idiotic flaming, name calling, pyramid quoting and all-round r etardedness in the last 8 pages and look at the sum total of, what, 5 posts that have any real content in them. It seems to me that the problem being faced is that there are no decent small-gang fights in Low-sec any more. I think this is mainly due to the effective and pervasive choke-point gate camps that have been going on for so many years practically non-stop, to be honest. My solution for low-sec Pirates to get more fights would be to stop camping the choke point gates, and allow more people to fly into low-sec. Then nobody would need to change any game mechanics, you wouldn't need an 8 page thread of stupidly banging heads against brick walls trying to explain the obvious, and at the end of the day the pirates could still have their tasty carebear tears when that low-sec mission lewt got popped 2 gates from the safety of high-sec. Just a suggestion :) No insurance for outlaws getting concorded should really be a no brainer tbh. It would also stop the odd bad-loser pirate from jumping into highsec to suicide their drake instead of giving the killmail to the people who jumped into their camp and deserved to get it (don't laugh, an ex-alliance mate did this once ). The issue with allowing outlaws into highsec is this, as I see it. Noobs might engage you, and you will pretty much insta-pop them. As most skilled players will do with noobs. Then there are the carebears who will go 'oh, flashy red, an opportunity to gank him' but will do so in their mission-fit ships, which gives you a nice pay day and an easy victory again. And you are also assuming that in this carebear heaven, people will actually be communicating with one another like you do in your effective corps and alliances. This is not going to be the case, you will not get multiple people attack you straight off the bat - you'll appear, and then individuals will attack you in dribs and drabs in ill-fit ships with no support for about 30 minutes. It's not going to be 'good fights', it's going to be like level 1 missions, where the worst part is travelling to the wrecks to salvage and loot, and finding nothing but crap in there. I see what you're saying, and I like why you're trying to do it, but imo this suggestion will not get you the epic small gang fights you want. I think it will just get you epic slaughter of one noob after another after another, which is neither fun nor profitable.

CCP Mitnal C C P	Posted - 2008.11.19 01:22:00 - [222] Cleaned. Please stay on-topic and do not get sidetracked by discussion about posting styles. Mitnal Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang

Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.11.19 01:35:00 - [223] OP you choose your life of crime now you must live with the consinquences. Weekend pirates are not real pirates.
Lasus Tarheel Mining	Posted - 2008.11.19 02:00:00 - [224] At first glance your idea seems to have merit. However one thing I have learned by playing EVE is, if there is a way to exploit something it will happen. Suicide ganking would increase. Lowering of sec rating probably stops a lot of it. Also pod killing would increase, making ransoming harder to do. I am sure I have not thought of all the ways your idea could be abused. I also dont think you would get more fights. I mean if I saw you flashing red my poor combat skills would preclude me from attacking you regardless of how many people were attacking you. Pain n An unpleasant feeling or sensation usually caused by the good fortune of another
Nalar Marnith Minmatar SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.11.19 02:59:00 - [225] Without supporting this one way or the other... Would be cool if you got gate/sentry aggro instead of faction police. Would force us evil pirates to fly something half decent to avoid getting insta'd by gates/stations (more guns than lowsec). Would also prevent suicide ganking in anything less than a BC. Having to use alts to bring ships through is a minor annoyance at best, additionally it actually makes it EASIER for us to get ships at lower risk. That said, they way things are now is no big deal, so either way.
Sulora Amarr Eve Liberation Force Liberty.	Posted - 2008.11.19 03:12:00 - [226] I agree with the OP that this would be a nice feature to add. No risk to those who don't want to pvp, but allows the pirate(s) to not have to use an alt to buy their crap. Although I like a previous poster's idea of only allowing this in .5 - .7 systems. I'm not a pirate btw, I live in 0.0, but I like this idea.
Mistress Frome SniggWaffe	Posted - 2008.11.19 03:26:00 - [227] Originally by: Lasus At first glance your idea seems to have merit. However one thing I have learned by playing EVE is, if there is a way to exploit something it will happen. Suicide ganking would increase. Lowering of sec rating probably stops a lot of it. Since when is suicide ganking a bad thing? Quote: Also pod killing would increase, making ransoming harder to do. Don't really see how the number of pods killed in eve affects your ability to extract money from a target in the least. Quote: I am sure I have not thought of all the ways your idea could be abused. Tbh it doesn't seem like there'd be much room for abuse. Outlaws would still suffer from the same drawbacks as they did before. Only difference you wont have to run from the police while in hisec. Quote: I also dont think you would get more fights. I mean if I saw you flashing red my poor combat skills would preclude me from attacking you regardless of how many people were attacking you. You may not. Others might. And if another person gets a fight, then the outlaw also does whether or not he wants it >_>
Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.11.19 03:38:00 - [228] I've been a fan of this idea forever (even before I decided to go pirate). I do think, however, that the OP's reasons are flawed. The pirate would just get blobbed. Everywhere. Pirate gets fight -> Other people see him -> Pirate gets blobbed 50 to 1 If anything, hardly anything will change in game. Maybe the less traversed lanes will get travelled, but I can tell you that I wouldn't go into high sec. Go mission in high sec? Yea... right.... Soon as I undock, 50 friggin CNR's start firing. Insta-pop. Buy stuff in high sec? Sure.. undock, explode, redock, re-purchase my items. Sorry, but I have a freighter alt to do all of my industrial stuff. PS: For the people that say this makes no sense RP-wise.. well, by that logic, it doesn't make sense for pirate NPC's to be in high sec either then. So can we has all missions moved to low sec? Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
Ballamahamabad Madas	Posted - 2008.11.19 03:49:00 - [229] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: NightmareX Edited by: NightmareX on 18/11/2008 21:49:29 Anyways, there is not really a point by telling Black Scorpio anything here, because he doesn't understand what PVP is and doesn't understand what we are telling here. Just ignore him and just talk about what the topic is about. Stinky care bears who just want to live in a care bear heaven where the word PVP is so extremely disgusting and forbidden should just stick to their stinky NPC whoring and sucks on asteroids all day long. I'm in for everything that makes more PVP in EVE. As long it's in a good way, like the OP here have a point on. See there is a small problem here, as a care bear I want to take my products I make to low sec to allow you to continue to pirate and kill everyone. I don't care who you kill or how many you kill. Some care bears are there to help you do your job more efficiently, however that concept doesn't allow me to get past gate camps in a freighter with 400,000m3 of ammo. So instead of losing all my stuff to a pirate that wants to kill everything I don't bother going into low-sec. I just sell my stuff at a slightly lower cost at boarder systems. I want to supply the pirates but they don't let me help them by supplies good products at a reasonable price away from everyone else. Wrong. I have dealings with several pirate corporations allowing safe travel. Ya know that politics goes beyond 0.0, right? NBSI = piracy, and all pirates that I've met never shoot blues... except for the Goons.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2008.11.19 03:50:00 - [230] As an outlaw, personally I don't think its a good idea. If I need to go into high sec, I prepare and I have no issues whatsoever. Other than when I do that, there is no reason for me, or the majority of the outlaw population to be hanging around in high sec imho. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Korizan	Posted - 2008.11.19 04:21:00 - [231] I think not. This effectively means a person / group of people could suicide gank anybody of there choosing for as long as they want. Secondly considering the average member of high-sec does not know how to PvP. This is essentially throwing the fox into the chicken coop.
Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.11.19 05:05:00 - [232] I love when people say this idea gives free access to suicide ganking when YOU DO NOT GET INSURANCE FOR GETTING CONCORDED IF YOU ARE AN OUTLAW (if this was implemented) Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.19 05:35:00 - [233] I went shopping in Jita today. Bought a HAC and a Recon. Moved them through 6 nearby highsec systems to a lowsec one. I'm -4.2. Just sayin'.
Matting NQX Innovations	Posted - 2008.11.19 05:57:00 - [234] I really like this idea, a lot of good points have been brought up and dealt with. There is slight risk that a newer player will attack a big pirate ship BUT everyone else can join in too. I think itÆs great as a MMO to encourage empire members to be the police instead of our current system of NPC navy as the real police are concord. I feel EVE has grown to a membership level where this is possible too where as a couple years ago empire was a bit more quiet. I think your reason for getting good fights as someone else mentioned is not quite right, you would get blobbed a lot. I think it would help have a general scary presence around the universe which has gotten a bit softer and too fluffy. The perception would help the atmosphere of the game while not affecting players who donÆt want to participate in it. IÆll agree with who ever said about limiting it to .7/.8 space which ever level is the last to have NPC rats in it. I canÆt really see any exploits that can be done and IÆm sure if this were to be implemented CCP would quickly ban and patch it. As a pirate you can already travel through high sec, thanks to the navy in some cases even in big ships (correct me if this has recently changed). This change would actually make it MORE dangerous to travel is an outlaw and I canÆt see any pirates really moving expensive ships around as they are too vulnerable to attack. Pretty much what Feng Schui said about the negatives for pirates. I really see this as all pros to a game that supposably encourages PVP and hopefully would get people a taste for killing earlier on. The only semi valid argument I saw after ignoring those who donÆt understand GCC and aggression was the penalty for being ônaughtyö I think the penalty is very hard at the moment and as others have mentioned it wonÆt let pirates operate in empire like nothing happened. Suicide attacks wonÆt really work as you need to wait around for a long time waiting for the right ship to attack, these are normally busy areas which have a lot of PVPers around them. If they did have shadow concord/navy then this would also help prevent flashys causing trouble but even without they could increase the response time for -5 aggressors to make it impossible maybe. Empire war deccing corps would love hunting these people down and also good for part time pirates who go to low sec for a bit of fun. I know I would attack any flashy around empire, it would be quite fun and I can even get corpies or random players to help. I can also see some nice griefing to be had in my alts falcon. Remember the outlaw CANNOT get help from anyone. Please poke holes ( :/ ) in my rambling.
Omarvelous Caldari Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2008.11.19 06:02:00 - [235] Originally by: Dianeces I went shopping in Jita today. Bought a HAC and a Recon. Moved them through 6 nearby highsec systems to a lowsec one. I'm -4.2. Just sayin'. Planet IV insta.
Emperor Salazar Caldari Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.19 06:29:00 - [236] The Op really does have a solid idea here. There's a few reasons and he has pointed them out numerous times to all the carebears/trolls/flamers and general whiners. 1. It won't affect you if you don't want it to. 2. It will allow players to police their beloved high sec rather than NPC navies doing it for them. (CONCORD will always be needed to police up noob gankers and what not). 3. As the OP has pointed out, game mechanics make it so that anyone, ANYONE, assisting a pirate will be flagged and dealt with by CONCORD. 4. This system would boost the bull**** version of bounty hunting CCP currently has in place. For all those that are seriously in opposition and not just flaming/trolling, take not that the OP has stated multiple times that this is NOT about travel or ease of access to the high sec market. Personally, I think from a roleplay POV, pirates shouldn't be able to access the market in high security (a CONCORD controlled entity, SCC to be precise). This could also help to push for an official "black market" interface within the game (an idea I've seen tossed around by players a few times now). On a side note, CCP mentioned at Fanfest that they want players to start policing low sec via game mechanics (a viceroy I think they stated?). This could very well be an extension of said idea. I fully support and endorse this idea. This is an MMO that is greatly run by its players. Give the players a bit more control and have them enforce the law on their own. Anyway, that's my 2 isk. Good idea op and ignore the trolls/flamers. I'm not a pirate, have been ganked on countless gatecamps and really like this idea. It has potential; go with it.
Dianeces The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.11.19 06:34:00 - [237] Originally by: Omarvelous Originally by: Dianeces I went shopping in Jita today. Bought a HAC and a Recon. Moved them through 6 nearby highsec systems to a lowsec one. I'm -4.2. Just sayin'. Planet IV insta. Police don't care where you are, they'll spawn on grid with you.
Sheriff Jones Amarr Clinical Experiment	Posted - 2008.11.19 06:48:00 - [238] I'll ask again, would the OP let people go to 0.0 space without the danger of being attacked, say, with CONCORD escort?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.11.19 06:58:00 - [239] Originally by: Feng Schui I love when people say this idea gives free access to suicide ganking when YOU DO NOT GET INSURANCE FOR GETTING CONCORDED IF YOU ARE AN OUTLAW (if this was implemented) No, it was not implemented, as you should know if you read the patch notes. Next whine please.
Dantes Revenge Caldari	Posted - 2008.11.19 07:01:00 - [240] Originally by: Omarvelous I want more options and diversity in this game. High sec is a snooze fest - my suggestion would spice it up a little. With NO risk to someone who doesn't want to participate. If you don't like the snooze fest, why do you want to go back into it? Sounds to me like you want suicide gankers never to have the problem that's associated with a low sec rating. It also sounds like you're after free targets, ie: noobs who don't fully understand the game yet. Quote: Its WIN freakin' WIN for outlaws!!! Fix'd I fail to see how this would be a win for non-outlaws. The win is the current method of seeing you get your ass handed to you on a plate by police then, taking out your pod for the bounty before you can get to the gate to jump back out of the system. There are currently already ways you can get back into highsec if you want to. -- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again

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