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le'et
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Posted - 2004.07.17 17:31:00 -
[241]
The Tempest is lost when it comes to tanking. Giving min. bs a 25-50 cpu boost would help. Making shielding tanking stronger would only kill what little balence we have in this game. The raven does not need any help so all you raven pilots should stop using this post for your ravens needs.
The real problem is not its tanking ability, but its damage output. To cross the fine line of over damaging your opponents hp repair the temp pilot needs to sacrifice med and low slots for track/damage mods. Maybe an increase in damage or tracking would help. A 'match transverse velocity' option would help a tempest, and all other turret, users out alot.
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le'et
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Posted - 2004.07.17 17:31:00 -
[242]
The Tempest is lost when it comes to tanking. Giving min. bs a 25-50 cpu boost would help. Making shielding tanking stronger would only kill what little balence we have in this game. The raven does not need any help so all you raven pilots should stop using this post for your ravens needs.
The real problem is not its tanking ability, but its damage output. To cross the fine line of over damaging your opponents hp repair the temp pilot needs to sacrifice med and low slots for track/damage mods. Maybe an increase in damage or tracking would help. A 'match transverse velocity' option would help a tempest, and all other turret, users out alot.
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Kashre
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Posted - 2004.07.17 18:17:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Kashre on 17/07/2004 18:18:43
The tempest does not have a problem tanking (in my opinion). Use a cap booster with 800s and a 4 slot shield tank and you can run a shield tank effectively and still use a few of your low slots for gun/tracking mods.
Or, even better imo, armor tank it. Spend a little bit of money on a good named large armor repairer and throw a medium tech 2 on with 3 hardeners. I have been able to tank damage from everything Ive gone up against with that setup, except a blasterthon or a ravenwith torps, and when I added in a couple small launchers with defenders that went a long way to helping against the raven.
MAYBE the tempest could use a minute boost in DOT through tracking perhaps... but I kind of doubt it, because most long-range turret based ships can, at best stalemate me. Seldom have I run across a turret based long range setup that can overcome my armor repairers though, and just a couple of cap charger II will give you enough cap to run that setup for a long time.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
Kashre
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Posted - 2004.07.17 18:17:00 -
[244]
Edited by: Kashre on 17/07/2004 18:18:43
The tempest does not have a problem tanking (in my opinion). Use a cap booster with 800s and a 4 slot shield tank and you can run a shield tank effectively and still use a few of your low slots for gun/tracking mods.
Or, even better imo, armor tank it. Spend a little bit of money on a good named large armor repairer and throw a medium tech 2 on with 3 hardeners. I have been able to tank damage from everything Ive gone up against with that setup, except a blasterthon or a ravenwith torps, and when I added in a couple small launchers with defenders that went a long way to helping against the raven.
MAYBE the tempest could use a minute boost in DOT through tracking perhaps... but I kind of doubt it, because most long-range turret based ships can, at best stalemate me. Seldom have I run across a turret based long range setup that can overcome my armor repairers though, and just a couple of cap charger II will give you enough cap to run that setup for a long time.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.07.18 02:19:00 -
[245]
I really don't understand how this can even be an argument.
I mean... you can sit there and say that blasters do 7% more dmg.. not even factoring in the better hits they will get via tracking.... and say the tempest will beat a megathron? I don't know what game exists where you can have nearly equal defense, and one guy doing 7% more dmg (which we both know with your tracking is closer to 10-13%) is going to lose? Must be that fuzzy math 
If I toss in 2 dmg mods and a tracking mod to get my dot up to yours.. I blow my tank setup.
Even then, we are discussing the megathron... which is the most damaging ship in the game. You know, I can deal with and accept the fact that a mega will 97% of the time outclass a tempest under 10k.... but as it stands a raven with torps, an apoc with pulse... they all tank better, and do more dot.
Long range is another ball of wax altogether.. although, once again, megathron does most dot in the game.
slight tweak needed.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.07.18 02:19:00 -
[246]
I really don't understand how this can even be an argument.
I mean... you can sit there and say that blasters do 7% more dmg.. not even factoring in the better hits they will get via tracking.... and say the tempest will beat a megathron? I don't know what game exists where you can have nearly equal defense, and one guy doing 7% more dmg (which we both know with your tracking is closer to 10-13%) is going to lose? Must be that fuzzy math
If I toss in 2 dmg mods and a tracking mod to get my dot up to yours.. I blow my tank setup.
Even then, we are discussing the megathron... which is the most damaging ship in the game. You know, I can deal with and accept the fact that a mega will 97% of the time outclass a tempest under 10k.... but as it stands a raven with torps, an apoc with pulse... they all tank better, and do more dot.
Long range is another ball of wax altogether.. although, once again, megathron does most dot in the game.
slight tweak needed.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.07.18 02:42:00 -
[247]
PG, tracking doesn't really affect you when you go close range.
* If your opponent is close range too, you will web each other and tracking is not an issue.
* If your opponent is a raven, then you'll web him and stop your ship anyway and then tracking is not an issue.
* If your opponent is long range, well, he'll just die.
I would never consider fitting tracking mods on a closerange ship.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
dalman
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Posted - 2004.07.18 02:42:00 -
[248]
PG, tracking doesn't really affect you when you go close range.
* If your opponent is close range too, you will web each other and tracking is not an issue.
* If your opponent is a raven, then you'll web him and stop your ship anyway and then tracking is not an issue.
* If your opponent is long range, well, he'll just die.
I would never consider fitting tracking mods on a closerange ship.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Tar om
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Posted - 2004.07.18 11:25:00 -
[249]
I would go with a a ship bonus or proj damage multiplier boost over a tracking boost. 1400mm should deal great damage, but not at close range. Close range is mega/apoc turf and boosting tracking would allow the Tempest too much DoT close in.
I would also leave the tanking as it is, if we make all ships into good armour or shield tankers then its cookie cutter time. Boost the damage at range (preferably increase the falloff again too so you can do extreme long range setups with 2xf-90s at the expense of shield tanking) and leave the tanking alone.
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
Tar om
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Posted - 2004.07.18 11:25:00 -
[250]
I would go with a a ship bonus or proj damage multiplier boost over a tracking boost. 1400mm should deal great damage, but not at close range. Close range is mega/apoc turf and boosting tracking would allow the Tempest too much DoT close in.
I would also leave the tanking as it is, if we make all ships into good armour or shield tankers then its cookie cutter time. Boost the damage at range (preferably increase the falloff again too so you can do extreme long range setups with 2xf-90s at the expense of shield tanking) and leave the tanking alone.
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
JoCool
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Posted - 2004.07.18 13:43:00 -
[251]
That would leave shield tanking unbalanced (inferior) to armor tanking.
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JoCool
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Posted - 2004.07.18 13:43:00 -
[252]
That would leave shield tanking unbalanced (inferior) to armor tanking.
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Nieda
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Posted - 2004.07.18 16:32:00 -
[253]
Upclose and personal ? Like a real man !?
Fight is everybody's choice. Don't be so thin-minded.
---------------------------------------------
2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage. |
Nieda
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Posted - 2004.07.18 16:32:00 -
[254]
Upclose and personal ? Like a real man !?
Fight is everybody's choice. Don't be so thin-minded.
---------------------------------------------
2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage. |
Sewell
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Posted - 2004.07.19 00:16:00 -
[255]
 Quote:
Yes, with 1 more turret, 2-4 more drones and probably fitting 1 or even 2 more damagemods, the megathron will deal most damage. But the tempest will have much more cap, allowing it to run 2 repairers.
Not to be rude, but have you ever flown a Tempest (or Megathron) Dalman?
Cause I'd sure as hell would like to see a Tempest setup that could beat a Blasterthron at close range. The blasters will rip the tempest apart in no time, even with boths ships webbed.
I'd also like to see a Tempest setup that can run 2 L repairers and still do any kind of dmg.
Not saying that the tempest is a bad ship; just saying that the Megathron is better.
OTOH, after playing arund a bit more on TQ, I'm begining to think that a long range tempest might be good enough to compensate for it's inferior close range capabilities. Ah well... 
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Sewell
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Posted - 2004.07.19 00:16:00 -
[256]
Quote:
Yes, with 1 more turret, 2-4 more drones and probably fitting 1 or even 2 more damagemods, the megathron will deal most damage. But the tempest will have much more cap, allowing it to run 2 repairers.
Not to be rude, but have you ever flown a Tempest (or Megathron) Dalman?
Cause I'd sure as hell would like to see a Tempest setup that could beat a Blasterthron at close range. The blasters will rip the tempest apart in no time, even with boths ships webbed.
I'd also like to see a Tempest setup that can run 2 L repairers and still do any kind of dmg.
Not saying that the tempest is a bad ship; just saying that the Megathron is better.
OTOH, after playing arund a bit more on TQ, I'm begining to think that a long range tempest might be good enough to compensate for it's inferior close range capabilities. Ah well...
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dalman
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Posted - 2004.07.19 00:31:00 -
[257]
Sewell,
No, I don't fly a tempest. I fly megathron and raven.
But you know, "Know yourself and your enemy, and you'll never loose a battle"...
On the first page of this thread I posted a suggestion for a close range tempest setup. Go test it out.
Although I don't fly a tempest myself, I'm pretty sure more then 95% of the playerbase that does fly a tempest use a "much worse setup" than that.
And I'm also sure that setup would kick ass in a fight against an average blasterthron pilot.
Not saying the tempest will win in a "best of the best" fight between a mega and tempest, but a good tempest pilot will beat an average megathron pilot in a closerange fight.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
dalman
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Posted - 2004.07.19 00:31:00 -
[258]
Sewell,
No, I don't fly a tempest. I fly megathron and raven.
But you know, "Know yourself and your enemy, and you'll never loose a battle"...
On the first page of this thread I posted a suggestion for a close range tempest setup. Go test it out.
Although I don't fly a tempest myself, I'm pretty sure more then 95% of the playerbase that does fly a tempest use a "much worse setup" than that.
And I'm also sure that setup would kick ass in a fight against an average blasterthron pilot.
Not saying the tempest will win in a "best of the best" fight between a mega and tempest, but a good tempest pilot will beat an average megathron pilot in a closerange fight.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Iron Mike
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Posted - 2004.07.19 01:18:00 -
[259]
The tempest is the most versatile ship out there, before the turret changes, a tempest would kill anything with its 1400's now that has changed a bit and now the tempest needs to be put on equal footing with other ships of its class.
I think adding more CPU or a low slot is the wrong way to go about it
I want to see the tempest stay as the most versatile ship, but I dont want to tank with the same effectiveness of an Amarr ship or a Caldari ship.
I think what the tempest needs is better ammunition. Simply put, make projectile ammunition more powerful and have less of a range penalty. Maybe give the tempest some more shields.
I think if the best Minmatar ammunition was more powerful and only had a range penalty of 40%, it would be for the better. |
Iron Mike
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Posted - 2004.07.19 01:18:00 -
[260]
The tempest is the most versatile ship out there, before the turret changes, a tempest would kill anything with its 1400's now that has changed a bit and now the tempest needs to be put on equal footing with other ships of its class.
I think adding more CPU or a low slot is the wrong way to go about it
I want to see the tempest stay as the most versatile ship, but I dont want to tank with the same effectiveness of an Amarr ship or a Caldari ship.
I think what the tempest needs is better ammunition. Simply put, make projectile ammunition more powerful and have less of a range penalty. Maybe give the tempest some more shields.
I think if the best Minmatar ammunition was more powerful and only had a range penalty of 40%, it would be for the better. |
GFLTorque
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Posted - 2004.07.19 01:20:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Sewell
Quote:
Yes, with 1 more turret, 2-4 more drones and probably fitting 1 or even 2 more damagemods, the megathron will deal most damage. But the tempest will have much more cap, allowing it to run 2 repairers.
Not to be rude, but have you ever flown a Tempest (or Megathron) Dalman?
I'd also like to see a Tempest setup that can run 2 L repairers and still do any kind of dmg.
Not saying that the tempest is a bad ship; just saying that the Megathron is better.
Actually while I do think Tempest needs some adjustment, I do agree with Dalman that there are some close range setups that are far superior to what the vast majority of Eve uses on Tempests. And yes, you can run 2 L Armour Repairers.
As for long range, actually imo this is where the Tempest is currently at a loss. Its max default target range is like 70k but its main DOT is 50-60km when you take into account misses. Even then its not enough to scare even a decent BS setup.
Also, fyi Dalman owns a Mega, and does know how to fly it. 
4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions
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GFLTorque
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Posted - 2004.07.19 01:20:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Sewell
Quote:
Yes, with 1 more turret, 2-4 more drones and probably fitting 1 or even 2 more damagemods, the megathron will deal most damage. But the tempest will have much more cap, allowing it to run 2 repairers.
Not to be rude, but have you ever flown a Tempest (or Megathron) Dalman?
I'd also like to see a Tempest setup that can run 2 L repairers and still do any kind of dmg.
Not saying that the tempest is a bad ship; just saying that the Megathron is better.
Actually while I do think Tempest needs some adjustment, I do agree with Dalman that there are some close range setups that are far superior to what the vast majority of Eve uses on Tempests. And yes, you can run 2 L Armour Repairers.
As for long range, actually imo this is where the Tempest is currently at a loss. Its max default target range is like 70k but its main DOT is 50-60km when you take into account misses. Even then its not enough to scare even a decent BS setup.
Also, fyi Dalman owns a Mega, and does know how to fly it.
4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions
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Tar om
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Posted - 2004.07.19 02:55:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Tar om on 19/07/2004 03:04:41
Originally by: JoCool
That would leave shield tanking unbalanced (inferior) to armor tanking.
yep, I'm talking about what the Tempest would need in the current environment wrt tanking. I think the Tempest shield tanking is about right (one large shield booster and a couple of hardeners) IF the DOT is increased and preferably range increased too. If shield tanking is boosted then the Tempest could stand some tweak to keep it at the current level.
Then again, the shield tanking debate can probably be left to one side until we see what DOT the raven is capable of once the missiles get changed.
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
Tar om
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Posted - 2004.07.19 02:55:00 -
[264]
Edited by: Tar om on 19/07/2004 03:04:41
Originally by: JoCool
That would leave shield tanking unbalanced (inferior) to armor tanking.
yep, I'm talking about what the Tempest would need in the current environment wrt tanking. I think the Tempest shield tanking is about right (one large shield booster and a couple of hardeners) IF the DOT is increased and preferably range increased too. If shield tanking is boosted then the Tempest could stand some tweak to keep it at the current level.
Then again, the shield tanking debate can probably be left to one side until we see what DOT the raven is capable of once the missiles get changed.
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
Sewell
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Posted - 2004.07.19 10:31:00 -
[265]
Dalman,
That's what I get for reading 7 pages of posts - you forget the good ones at the start when it comes to posting your own..
;)
The setup you posted is pretty similar to what I've been using for a while, tho I thend to favour 800 repeating artilleries instead of autocannons.
Quote:
Not saying the tempest will win in a "best of the best" fight between a mega and tempest, but a good tempest pilot will beat an average megathron pilot in a closerange fight.
Yes, but with equal skills the Mega will win. That would be fine if the tempest would have an advatage in other situations.
As I said in my last post I tend to favour long range (1400) with the tempest now, and the guns do good dmg - the problem is that they just miss to much for the DOT to be good.
:/
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Sewell
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Posted - 2004.07.19 10:31:00 -
[266]
Dalman,
That's what I get for reading 7 pages of posts - you forget the good ones at the start when it comes to posting your own..
;)
The setup you posted is pretty similar to what I've been using for a while, tho I thend to favour 800 repeating artilleries instead of autocannons.
Quote:
Not saying the tempest will win in a "best of the best" fight between a mega and tempest, but a good tempest pilot will beat an average megathron pilot in a closerange fight.
Yes, but with equal skills the Mega will win. That would be fine if the tempest would have an advatage in other situations.
As I said in my last post I tend to favour long range (1400) with the tempest now, and the guns do good dmg - the problem is that they just miss to much for the DOT to be good.
:/
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allmus
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Posted - 2004.07.19 11:59:00 -
[267]
i may get blasted for saying this, but i don't care
i use a tempest, it's my only ship, and without named items or damage mods it sucks
give it 1 more low slot, but change 2 of the now 7 low slot's into damage/tracking mod's only fitting(if it's possable) as most people use atleast 1 damage mod's or tracting for long range set's it would help them out by increasing the turret tracking or damage that tempest do.
about 1 1/2 to 2 weeks ago(after the patch) i could be hitting NPC BS's worth 500k-1.5mill and i was getting wreaking hit's for 800 using 1400mm un-named gun's, now(yesterday) i couldn't hit more than 250, something was nerfed, as i'm using the EXACT setup as before, can anyone tell me what's been nerfed in past week???? |
allmus
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Posted - 2004.07.19 11:59:00 -
[268]
i may get blasted for saying this, but i don't care
i use a tempest, it's my only ship, and without named items or damage mods it sucks
give it 1 more low slot, but change 2 of the now 7 low slot's into damage/tracking mod's only fitting(if it's possable) as most people use atleast 1 damage mod's or tracting for long range set's it would help them out by increasing the turret tracking or damage that tempest do.
about 1 1/2 to 2 weeks ago(after the patch) i could be hitting NPC BS's worth 500k-1.5mill and i was getting wreaking hit's for 800 using 1400mm un-named gun's, now(yesterday) i couldn't hit more than 250, something was nerfed, as i'm using the EXACT setup as before, can anyone tell me what's been nerfed in past week???? |
Golgrath
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Posted - 2004.07.19 12:10:00 -
[269]
Adding a low slot would make Tempest overpowered imo. It would be the only tier 2 battleship with 12 meds+lows. But, it could use a slight increase in capacitor or making it a 7 turret, 3 launcher ship.
Minmatar specialty is speed. Wow. Too bad orbiting someone also has an effect on your own ability to hit (which it in reality shouldnt).
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Golgrath
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Posted - 2004.07.19 12:10:00 -
[270]
Adding a low slot would make Tempest overpowered imo. It would be the only tier 2 battleship with 12 meds+lows. But, it could use a slight increase in capacitor or making it a 7 turret, 3 launcher ship.
Minmatar specialty is speed. Wow. Too bad orbiting someone also has an effect on your own ability to hit (which it in reality shouldnt).
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