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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Noin
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Posted - 2004.07.20 04:50:00 -
[301]
I'd still like to see the Minmatars be the 'long range specialists' with their Howitsers, and the Gallente being the 'short range specialists' with their Blasters.
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Noin
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Posted - 2004.07.20 04:50:00 -
[302]
I'd still like to see the Minmatars be the 'long range specialists' with their Howitsers, and the Gallente being the 'short range specialists' with their Blasters.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.07.20 13:24:00 -
[303]
Increased ammo dmg is good, otoh, when ever 5th shot misses it has not as big an effect as may be intended.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.07.20 13:24:00 -
[304]
Increased ammo dmg is good, otoh, when ever 5th shot misses it has not as big an effect as may be intended.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.07.20 14:14:00 -
[305]
 Originally by: ProphetGuru
Needs a tweak tomB. Don't make me go raynor on you and start 250threads about the tempest.
ROFL ... i just dropped to that statement... 
anyway. to the busines!
The big problem in balansing 1400mm's is the Relativly Big default Damage mod ( 5 )
if you compare the skill bonuses on tachs, Blasters and Rails
The 1400mm's Benefit the most from anykind of skill bonuses cause 5% variation in 1400mm's is grater than Variation on tachs or Rails!
This has caused most of Tempest pilots to max theyr skills to lvl5
On the contruary, maxing tachyon or any other wepon type skills other than projektile makes lesser point! 
ofcorse, nerffing projektiles to the FUBAR-state is also wrong to the most Tempest pilots, cause the time spent training thees skils!
now that raven pilot whit 3 or 4 milion skillpoints sacrifised to raven Own Tempest pilot that got 10+ Skill points spent on Tempest is uterly unfair
as for this discussion turning into Tempest VS Mega treadh
it can be explaned by the simple fackt that Mega in 1 0n 1 situations simpply needs to push "keep at range: 500M" button - fire up 2 or 3 times MWD - push Webber and Scrambler on line and start pusshing F1 F2 F3 F4 etc...
Lagg dont bother in such proses so much, and i had Dsconection once when i was fighting Blaster tron - Disconection occured when Mega launched all its drones 
Tempest cant handle it self as easily - it needs to be kept at sertain range from it foe due to crap trakking of it armaments - and everybody knows how darn dificult is keeping your range from Mega Guzzling 600M/S+ At you
Maynly thats why This tread is Temppy VS MEga - you can run from Raven, and you can run from sluggish apoch! But you cant run from Blaster MWD tron!
and Megatron is only ship that got Huge advantage despite MWD penaltys to use MWD ( Tempest's cap is to feable to handle it )
Solution whuld be either adding tempest its lost ability to tank agen ( by un nerffing Cap relays or adding more cap to tempest or something else..) or making Tempest spesiality in its class ( Tire 2 BS's)
The basik philosophy behind Minmatar combat ships is Speed and firepover
Right now they Lack Firepower and speed diference is making Tempest Obsoleet
Using MWD on Tempest will make it to ginpped!
Maybe adding More speed and decreeding Signature radius on abaut all minmatar ships in Exchange of Tankking whuld make beter choise then adding tankking ability to them
Looking at minmatar ship models i cant see how they can Possibly tank whit armor
shields are maybe the only viable option - but the lack of capasitor make that more like secondary defense
Combining Speed whit Shields to whitstand the damage whuld be something new and intriquing to test out 
The only Problem that stand in it way is unperfekt Orbit modelling
as some peoples has alredy stated it out - if you are orbiing ship that is standing still, you will not gain any penalties but the ship that is standing will ... or atleast it shuld be so 
right now its not. So the fact that projektiles got crapes trakking combined to minmatar best speed isint workking out wery well
sorry for all my typos
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.07.20 14:14:00 -
[306]
Originally by: ProphetGuru
Needs a tweak tomB. Don't make me go raynor on you and start 250threads about the tempest.
ROFL ... i just dropped to that statement...
anyway. to the busines!
The big problem in balansing 1400mm's is the Relativly Big default Damage mod ( 5 )
if you compare the skill bonuses on tachs, Blasters and Rails
The 1400mm's Benefit the most from anykind of skill bonuses cause 5% variation in 1400mm's is grater than Variation on tachs or Rails!
This has caused most of Tempest pilots to max theyr skills to lvl5
On the contruary, maxing tachyon or any other wepon type skills other than projektile makes lesser point!
ofcorse, nerffing projektiles to the FUBAR-state is also wrong to the most Tempest pilots, cause the time spent training thees skils!
now that raven pilot whit 3 or 4 milion skillpoints sacrifised to raven Own Tempest pilot that got 10+ Skill points spent on Tempest is uterly unfair
as for this discussion turning into Tempest VS Mega treadh
it can be explaned by the simple fackt that Mega in 1 0n 1 situations simpply needs to push "keep at range: 500M" button - fire up 2 or 3 times MWD - push Webber and Scrambler on line and start pusshing F1 F2 F3 F4 etc...
Lagg dont bother in such proses so much, and i had Dsconection once when i was fighting Blaster tron - Disconection occured when Mega launched all its drones
Tempest cant handle it self as easily - it needs to be kept at sertain range from it foe due to crap trakking of it armaments - and everybody knows how darn dificult is keeping your range from Mega Guzzling 600M/S+ At you
Maynly thats why This tread is Temppy VS MEga - you can run from Raven, and you can run from sluggish apoch! But you cant run from Blaster MWD tron!
and Megatron is only ship that got Huge advantage despite MWD penaltys to use MWD ( Tempest's cap is to feable to handle it )
Solution whuld be either adding tempest its lost ability to tank agen ( by un nerffing Cap relays or adding more cap to tempest or something else..) or making Tempest spesiality in its class ( Tire 2 BS's)
The basik philosophy behind Minmatar combat ships is Speed and firepover
Right now they Lack Firepower and speed diference is making Tempest Obsoleet
Using MWD on Tempest will make it to ginpped!
Maybe adding More speed and decreeding Signature radius on abaut all minmatar ships in Exchange of Tankking whuld make beter choise then adding tankking ability to them
Looking at minmatar ship models i cant see how they can Possibly tank whit armor
shields are maybe the only viable option - but the lack of capasitor make that more like secondary defense
Combining Speed whit Shields to whitstand the damage whuld be something new and intriquing to test out
The only Problem that stand in it way is unperfekt Orbit modelling
as some peoples has alredy stated it out - if you are orbiing ship that is standing still, you will not gain any penalties but the ship that is standing will ... or atleast it shuld be so
right now its not. So the fact that projektiles got crapes trakking combined to minmatar best speed isint workking out wery well
sorry for all my typos
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Praetorias
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Posted - 2004.07.20 23:52:00 -
[307]
Edited by: Praetorias on 20/07/2004 23:54:09
What I find most annoying is the power, still too low for my liking and has a low slot deficiency. I would appreciate if I could speak to someone in game sometime soon, like ProphetGuru to get a few ideas, as my deliberations are too numerous to list here.
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Praetorias
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Posted - 2004.07.20 23:52:00 -
[308]
Edited by: Praetorias on 20/07/2004 23:54:09
What I find most annoying is the power, still too low for my liking and has a low slot deficiency. I would appreciate if I could speak to someone in game sometime soon, like ProphetGuru to get a few ideas, as my deliberations are too numerous to list here.
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RedElite
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Posted - 2004.07.21 05:01:00 -
[309]
Last time I checked the tempest was the only bs that had 2 huge solar panels, and yet no bonus to cap recharge, I would take a nerf to the max capacitor there was a NOTICEABLE boost to the cap recharge. The powergrid to me has been no problem after the last patch, i mean omg! 6 1400mm's with 1 rcu, can you not remember having to use 1 rcu just for 5?
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RedElite
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Posted - 2004.07.21 05:01:00 -
[310]
Last time I checked the tempest was the only bs that had 2 huge solar panels, and yet no bonus to cap recharge, I would take a nerf to the max capacitor there was a NOTICEABLE boost to the cap recharge. The powergrid to me has been no problem after the last patch, i mean omg! 6 1400mm's with 1 rcu, can you not remember having to use 1 rcu just for 5?
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Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.07.21 05:17:00 -
[311]
One thing that keeps popping up. And it's annoying the hell out of me is the Tempest cap sucks. Here's the rundown for those unable to READ the stats of ships in game.
Tempest has 4250 base cap, 923.9 recharge time. 0 cap drain from turrets.
Megathron has 4500 base cap, 923.9 recharge time. 30 a sec cap drain from turrets is not unlikely.
Statements.
Tempest can't tank like a megathron or at best can tank equally well.
Tempest can't use a mwd like a mega.
Look at those stats, look at those statements, look at the stats again, and now keep on looking till you get it.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Gariuys
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Posted - 2004.07.21 05:17:00 -
[312]
One thing that keeps popping up. And it's annoying the hell out of me is the Tempest cap sucks. Here's the rundown for those unable to READ the stats of ships in game.
Tempest has 4250 base cap, 923.9 recharge time. 0 cap drain from turrets.
Megathron has 4500 base cap, 923.9 recharge time. 30 a sec cap drain from turrets is not unlikely.
Statements.
Tempest can't tank like a megathron or at best can tank equally well.
Tempest can't use a mwd like a mega.
Look at those stats, look at those statements, look at the stats again, and now keep on looking till you get it.
~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~
A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX
The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.07.21 10:30:00 -
[313]
One thing to beef the howitzers up could be to change the ammo in terms of less range penalty. Like emp -25% optimal range instead of -50% since the howitzer dont even work at optimal range of emp ammo.
regarding defence: missile will be changed, they will do less dmg vs smaller sig radius eg. -20% dmg from a torp vs a typhoon = 360dmg instead of 450
and btw I would think about tracking disruptors!!! they work great in combination with the minmatars small sig radius.
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.07.21 10:30:00 -
[314]
One thing to beef the howitzers up could be to change the ammo in terms of less range penalty. Like emp -25% optimal range instead of -50% since the howitzer dont even work at optimal range of emp ammo.
regarding defence: missile will be changed, they will do less dmg vs smaller sig radius eg. -20% dmg from a torp vs a typhoon = 360dmg instead of 450
and btw I would think about tracking disruptors!!! they work great in combination with the minmatars small sig radius.
Greetings Grim |
Siddy
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Posted - 2004.07.21 10:46:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Grim Vandal
One thing to beef the howitzers up could be to change the ammo in terms of less range penalty. Like emp -25% optimal range instead of -50% since the howitzer dont even work at optimal range of emp ammo.
regarding defence: missile will be changed, they will do less dmg vs smaller sig radius eg. -20% dmg from a torp vs a typhoon = 360dmg instead of 450
and btw I would think about tracking disruptors!!! they work great in combination with the minmatars small sig radius.
yes - the missile changes also make torps hit less hard an orbiting objekt
if Typhoon is beefed whit 2 Owerdrives and 1 Lif AB
it can laught at raven when orbiting it at speed of 400M/S and fiaring back missiles and god know what else
Im beginning to think that Typhoon is beter ship that Tempest if used at close ranges
(I had 2 close range Armor Typhoons so i know what im talkking abaut)
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.07.21 10:46:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Grim Vandal
One thing to beef the howitzers up could be to change the ammo in terms of less range penalty. Like emp -25% optimal range instead of -50% since the howitzer dont even work at optimal range of emp ammo.
regarding defence: missile will be changed, they will do less dmg vs smaller sig radius eg. -20% dmg from a torp vs a typhoon = 360dmg instead of 450
and btw I would think about tracking disruptors!!! they work great in combination with the minmatars small sig radius.
yes - the missile changes also make torps hit less hard an orbiting objekt
if Typhoon is beefed whit 2 Owerdrives and 1 Lif AB
it can laught at raven when orbiting it at speed of 400M/S and fiaring back missiles and god know what else
Im beginning to think that Typhoon is beter ship that Tempest if used at close ranges
(I had 2 close range Armor Typhoons so i know what im talkking abaut)
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.07.21 14:55:00 -
[317]
Originally by: RedElite
Last time I checked the tempest was the only bs that had 2 huge solar panels, and yet no bonus to cap recharge,
Errr ... they arent Solar panels .... Dooooooh 
They are Heat Sinks's
Minnies use Nuclear Fission Reactors, prolly because they are still in "Stoned" age ... but still, they arent FRIKING SOLAR PANELS !!!1111ElevenTWELW
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.07.21 14:55:00 -
[318]
Originally by: RedElite
Last time I checked the tempest was the only bs that had 2 huge solar panels, and yet no bonus to cap recharge,
Errr ... they arent Solar panels .... Dooooooh
They are Heat Sinks's
Minnies use Nuclear Fission Reactors, prolly because they are still in "Stoned" age ... but still, they arent FRIKING SOLAR PANELS !!!1111ElevenTWELW
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Noin
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Posted - 2004.07.21 15:09:00 -
[319]
I heard rumours that they were secret solar sails. Thats why a Minmatar BS is 5m/s faster than another races thingy. hush hush ;)
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Noin
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Posted - 2004.07.21 15:09:00 -
[320]
I heard rumours that they were secret solar sails. Thats why a Minmatar BS is 5m/s faster than another races thingy. hush hush ;)
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.07.21 15:14:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Noin
I heard rumours that they were secret solar sails. Thats why a Minmatar BS is 5m/s faster than another races thingy. hush hush ;)
Nope!
They are Heat Sinks and thats that ... minmatars still generate Electricy by giant Steam turbines
and that steam needs to be cooled down somewere
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.07.21 15:14:00 -
[322]
Originally by: Noin
I heard rumours that they were secret solar sails. Thats why a Minmatar BS is 5m/s faster than another races thingy. hush hush ;)
Nope!
They are Heat Sinks and thats that ... minmatars still generate Electricy by giant Steam turbines
and that steam needs to be cooled down somewere
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.07.21 16:55:00 -
[323]
And the one thing that keeps being brought up that bugs me....
Stop comparing the tempest to the megathron for f sake. YES they are very very similar in stats. Yes they can probably tank about the same amount. They ALSO have the most damaging turrets at all VIABLE pvp ranges! All thing being equal, the megathron doesn't NEED to tank better then any one else, as it does more damage then everyone else.
Megathron=most dmg in game
Tempest=Lowest dmg in game
Saying they have = defense, while knowing the truth of the above statement, is saying- Make sure you have platinum insurance if you fly a tempest.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.07.21 16:55:00 -
[324]
And the one thing that keeps being brought up that bugs me....
Stop comparing the tempest to the megathron for f sake. YES they are very very similar in stats. Yes they can probably tank about the same amount. They ALSO have the most damaging turrets at all VIABLE pvp ranges! All thing being equal, the megathron doesn't NEED to tank better then any one else, as it does more damage then everyone else.
Megathron=most dmg in game
Tempest=Lowest dmg in game
Saying they have = defense, while knowing the truth of the above statement, is saying- Make sure you have platinum insurance if you fly a tempest.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.07.21 17:01:00 -
[325]
I think it's just a case of the projectiles/minmatar ships having their turn at the nerf end of the scale.
This isn't likely to change until after Shiva (unless the tech II guns/ammo change things around).
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.07.21 17:01:00 -
[326]
I think it's just a case of the projectiles/minmatar ships having their turn at the nerf end of the scale.
This isn't likely to change until after Shiva (unless the tech II guns/ammo change things around).
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Noin
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Posted - 2004.07.21 21:07:00 -
[327]
The thing I don't understand is this: if you nerf a gun it gets worse.
Then, another gun is 'the best' so then you nerf that one.
Then another gun is the best, so you nerf that one too.
In the end, all you have is crappy weapons for everyone.
Instead of nerfing something, wouldn't it be better to make the other things slightly better?
So if a ship X is too good at long range, amke ships Y and Z better at long range.
I know it's more work to make 3 ships better than to make 1 thing worse, but the end result is a lot more fun to play with imho.
the end.
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Noin
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Posted - 2004.07.21 21:07:00 -
[328]
The thing I don't understand is this: if you nerf a gun it gets worse.
Then, another gun is 'the best' so then you nerf that one.
Then another gun is the best, so you nerf that one too.
In the end, all you have is crappy weapons for everyone.
Instead of nerfing something, wouldn't it be better to make the other things slightly better?
So if a ship X is too good at long range, amke ships Y and Z better at long range.
I know it's more work to make 3 ships better than to make 1 thing worse, but the end result is a lot more fun to play with imho.
the end.
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fras
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Posted - 2004.07.22 13:15:00 -
[329]
I think the Tempest was hit quite a bit by the falloff nerf on repeating artillery. It used to be quite viable to stack some damage mods making the 800's hit as hard as blasters and shield tank with no MWD.
Nowadays the effective range of 800's is closer to 15k rather than the 20-25k of old. I'm sure the 800's should have an extra 2k falloff though according to tomb's thread - It states 18k yet they are 16k in game.
One thing I will say though is the tempest wasn't hit as hard as the Typhoon. I think pre-patch it was tied with the scorp as the best lvl 1 pvp BS, nowadays I would place it equal bottom with the dom.
all imho
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fras
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Posted - 2004.07.22 13:15:00 -
[330]
I think the Tempest was hit quite a bit by the falloff nerf on repeating artillery. It used to be quite viable to stack some damage mods making the 800's hit as hard as blasters and shield tank with no MWD.
Nowadays the effective range of 800's is closer to 15k rather than the 20-25k of old. I'm sure the 800's should have an extra 2k falloff though according to tomb's thread - It states 18k yet they are 16k in game.
One thing I will say though is the tempest wasn't hit as hard as the Typhoon. I think pre-patch it was tied with the scorp as the best lvl 1 pvp BS, nowadays I would place it equal bottom with the dom.
all imho
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