| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 20 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
ProphetGuru
   |
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: ProphetGuru on 14/07/2004 20:33:39
Edited by: ProphetGuru on 14/07/2004 20:31:26
Ok, I am a long time tempest pilot. I flew them well before they became the "in" ship. I have bship 5.. lrg proj 5.. and all gunnery support skills at 5.
I have tried a myriad of setups since our latest patch. The patch certainly improved performance of projectiles quite a bit, and that is good.
I guess my beef at the moment, is the lack of tanking ability with the tempest.
After extensive testing, I have come to the conclusion that the tempest simply cannot tank dmg from a comparable lvl 2 bship. My testing is concerning close range setups. Tempest v armor tanked apoc=apoc teh win. Tempest v megathron= mega win. Insane dmg the mega puts out.=mega win
Raven-tanked with torps. We all know the answer to that fight.
Tempest needs another lowslot to armor tank effectively. OR it needs a cpu boost to shield tank effectively. Currently the tempest is cited as being, "very versatile" Wow... thanks, I have a lvl 2 dominix now? Given the backstory, I think minmatar should get a cpu boost and rely more heavily on shields, as amarr lean towards armor.
The tempest lost out quite a bit with the hit to heavy launchers, and gets no bonus to siege/cruise launchers furthur dropping the dot of the ship itself vs other tier 2 bships.
The Tempest needs to become good at something, rather then be almost good at everything. Almost good gets you killed.
I would just like to point out, before the inevitable "omg j00 sux" crowd chimes in, I pvp daily, and have 15mill skillpoints. I'm not a n00b, I know how to fit a ship, and ....... I am right.
Edit- why cap relays effect shield boosting ability, while med slot cap chargers do not effect armor tanking ability, is beyond me. The cpr nerf needs to be undone, and another solution found.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
ProphetGuru
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:29:00 -
[2]
Edited by: ProphetGuru on 14/07/2004 20:33:39
Edited by: ProphetGuru on 14/07/2004 20:31:26
Ok, I am a long time tempest pilot. I flew them well before they became the "in" ship. I have bship 5.. lrg proj 5.. and all gunnery support skills at 5.
I have tried a myriad of setups since our latest patch. The patch certainly improved performance of projectiles quite a bit, and that is good.
I guess my beef at the moment, is the lack of tanking ability with the tempest.
After extensive testing, I have come to the conclusion that the tempest simply cannot tank dmg from a comparable lvl 2 bship. My testing is concerning close range setups. Tempest v armor tanked apoc=apoc teh win. Tempest v megathron= mega win. Insane dmg the mega puts out.=mega win
Raven-tanked with torps. We all know the answer to that fight.
Tempest needs another lowslot to armor tank effectively. OR it needs a cpu boost to shield tank effectively. Currently the tempest is cited as being, "very versatile" Wow... thanks, I have a lvl 2 dominix now? Given the backstory, I think minmatar should get a cpu boost and rely more heavily on shields, as amarr lean towards armor.
The tempest lost out quite a bit with the hit to heavy launchers, and gets no bonus to siege/cruise launchers furthur dropping the dot of the ship itself vs other tier 2 bships.
The Tempest needs to become good at something, rather then be almost good at everything. Almost good gets you killed.
I would just like to point out, before the inevitable "omg j00 sux" crowd chimes in, I pvp daily, and have 15mill skillpoints. I'm not a n00b, I know how to fit a ship, and ....... I am right.
Edit- why cap relays effect shield boosting ability, while med slot cap chargers do not effect armor tanking ability, is beyond me. The cpr nerf needs to be undone, and another solution found.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
Phonix
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:41:00 -
[3]
I agree the tempest isnt worth damn any more..
CCP pls balance all ships not just a few!
And Cap Relays need to come back no one uses them any more. Maybe people that ammor tank but when you have a effective true ammor tank you dont have enough low slots to fight them..
Bring Cap relays back or give PDU's more cap recharge.
--------------
Notferr has been pwned by CCP..
|
Phonix
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:41:00 -
[4]
I agree the tempest isnt worth damn any more..
CCP pls balance all ships not just a few!
And Cap Relays need to come back no one uses them any more. Maybe people that ammor tank but when you have a effective true ammor tank you dont have enough low slots to fight them..
Bring Cap relays back or give PDU's more cap recharge.
--------------
Notferr has been pwned by CCP..
|
darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:44:00 -
[5]
u are correct... im also a tempest pilot, and all my skills are around them...
but i have found a setup that squeezes every bit of power from it... AND allows me to armour tank well.
ill tell u how it goes, as im yet to test it 1v1 on anyone other than my corp mates...
But it does look VERY tasty.
d solo
|
darth solo
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:44:00 -
[6]
u are correct... im also a tempest pilot, and all my skills are around them...
but i have found a setup that squeezes every bit of power from it... AND allows me to armour tank well.
ill tell u how it goes, as im yet to test it 1v1 on anyone other than my corp mates...
But it does look VERY tasty.
d solo
|
Hanns
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:46:00 -
[7]
I agree the Tempest is no the ship it used to be, and armor tanking is way to powerful, either Shield tanking ships need some love, or armor tanking needs a nerf!
|
Hanns
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:46:00 -
[8]
I agree the Tempest is no the ship it used to be, and armor tanking is way to powerful, either Shield tanking ships need some love, or armor tanking needs a nerf!
|
Valeria
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:51:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Valeria on 14/07/2004 20:53:18
Yeah... I agree. I bought a Tempest yesterday to deal kinetic damage against Guristas with, but I couldn't get a setup that could stand a chance against my Apocalypse even though it deals mostly EM damage which Guristas eat for breakfeast.
With 6 800 mm's and two Dam. mods it deals a bit more damage over the Apoc with 8 Mega Pulse (I have Minmatar Bship 5 aswell, but only Amarr Bship 3), but you have to be so damn close and I can't find a way to run both a MWD and a Large Repairer at once, so i'll have to slowly tug towards my targets with a LiF.
On the Apoc I can run MWD (well not run, but have online) and TWO Large Repairers, and lasers on top of that. 
I was just thinking earlier that maybe the CPR could come with a small power-grid hit or so. A really small one, haven't calculated any good number though. As it is now I don't know how people can shield tank ANY ship. 
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Valeria
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:51:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Valeria on 14/07/2004 20:53:18
Yeah... I agree. I bought a Tempest yesterday to deal kinetic damage against Guristas with, but I couldn't get a setup that could stand a chance against my Apocalypse even though it deals mostly EM damage which Guristas eat for breakfeast.
With 6 800 mm's and two Dam. mods it deals a bit more damage over the Apoc with 8 Mega Pulse (I have Minmatar Bship 5 aswell, but only Amarr Bship 3), but you have to be so damn close and I can't find a way to run both a MWD and a Large Repairer at once, so i'll have to slowly tug towards my targets with a LiF.
On the Apoc I can run MWD (well not run, but have online) and TWO Large Repairers, and lasers on top of that.
I was just thinking earlier that maybe the CPR could come with a small power-grid hit or so. A really small one, haven't calculated any good number though. As it is now I don't know how people can shield tank ANY ship.
Your 425mm Prototype I Gauss Gun perfectly strikes some nublar, wrecking for 1155.0 damage. |
Veneth
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:53:00 -
[11]
I totally agree Guru. The Tempest isn't really good for much anymore. I've flown one for quiet a long time (about 5 months now) and since the patch I just learned to fly an apoc (about 8 days) and am doing much much better in it.. something just seems so wrong about that to me :)
|
Veneth
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 20:53:00 -
[12]
I totally agree Guru. The Tempest isn't really good for much anymore. I've flown one for quiet a long time (about 5 months now) and since the patch I just learned to fly an apoc (about 8 days) and am doing much much better in it.. something just seems so wrong about that to me :)
|
Mikelangelo
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 21:04:00 -
[13]
I see others are having the same problem as myself.
Tempest cannot really shield tank. Fitting a shield amp with an XL booster, 3 hardeners (insert your favorite hardeners here) and 6x power diagnostics (or 5 PD's and a damage mod), is impossible, even with named equipment, due to lack of CPU. Forget fitting even 2 siege launchers with a decent shield tank setup.
Armor tanking is a bit more forgiving, but you run into CPU problems also, even before running into grid problems. This is with maxed skills.
Tempest needs 25-50 more CPU for sure.
|
Mikelangelo
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 21:04:00 -
[14]
I see others are having the same problem as myself.
Tempest cannot really shield tank. Fitting a shield amp with an XL booster, 3 hardeners (insert your favorite hardeners here) and 6x power diagnostics (or 5 PD's and a damage mod), is impossible, even with named equipment, due to lack of CPU. Forget fitting even 2 siege launchers with a decent shield tank setup.
Armor tanking is a bit more forgiving, but you run into CPU problems also, even before running into grid problems. This is with maxed skills.
Tempest needs 25-50 more CPU for sure.
|
ProphetGuru
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 21:47:00 -
[15]
hrm. 4 out of the 6 responses here are by well known, and accomplished pvp'ers. (the other 2 peeps I just don't know).
Anyways, my point being, I would welcome tomB to take a peek at this thread, and listen to the wealth of experience here, and hopefully, address the issue.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
ProphetGuru
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 21:47:00 -
[16]
hrm. 4 out of the 6 responses here are by well known, and accomplished pvp'ers. (the other 2 peeps I just don't know).
Anyways, my point being, I would welcome tomB to take a peek at this thread, and listen to the wealth of experience here, and hopefully, address the issue.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 21:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 14/07/2004 22:02:08
Tempest just happens to suffer the most from the current state of shield-tanking.
Tempests lo-slots are much more valuable than the lo-slots of other lvl2 BS, I feel, because you really need to get the rof down or the dmg up and that takes up lo-slots.
In effect, I don't think the Tempest is wrong.
It's shield-tanking thats wrong.
Having said that, you guys all have Min BS 5 and probably know more about Tempests than me  even though my gunnery supports are at 5 too.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 21:59:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Joshua Calvert on 14/07/2004 22:02:08
Tempest just happens to suffer the most from the current state of shield-tanking.
Tempests lo-slots are much more valuable than the lo-slots of other lvl2 BS, I feel, because you really need to get the rof down or the dmg up and that takes up lo-slots.
In effect, I don't think the Tempest is wrong.
It's shield-tanking thats wrong.
Having said that, you guys all have Min BS 5 and probably know more about Tempests than me even though my gunnery supports are at 5 too.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:25:00 -
[19]
I think the same, tempest is just not as good anymore since the cap relay nerf. Then they added the missile changes.
Tempest needs a change, so it has a speciality.
It's not a complete gunship with 6 turret slots, doesn't get a missile bonus for it's 4 launchers.
It doesn't have cpu/cap to shield tank.
Something should be done, maybe make it 7turrets, 3 launcher. And give a cpu boost.
Simply removing the cap relay nerf might help a lot too.
An other solution would be to actually make the Shield Recharge Rate attribute usefull. |
Arthur Guinness
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:25:00 -
[20]
I think the same, tempest is just not as good anymore since the cap relay nerf. Then they added the missile changes.
Tempest needs a change, so it has a speciality.
It's not a complete gunship with 6 turret slots, doesn't get a missile bonus for it's 4 launchers.
It doesn't have cpu/cap to shield tank.
Something should be done, maybe make it 7turrets, 3 launcher. And give a cpu boost.
Simply removing the cap relay nerf might help a lot too.
An other solution would be to actually make the Shield Recharge Rate attribute usefull. |
Admiral IceBlock
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:30:00 -
[21]
Minmatar ships is suppose to have low CPU.
Highest PG
Amarr
Minmatar
Gallente
Caldari
Highest CPU
Caldari
Gallente
Minmatar
Amarr
See? its all balanced..
now shield tanking vs armor tanking is NOT balanced...
"We brake for nobody"
|
Admiral IceBlock
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:30:00 -
[22]
Minmatar ships is suppose to have low CPU.
Highest PG
Amarr
Minmatar
Gallente
Caldari
Highest CPU
Caldari
Gallente
Minmatar
Amarr
See? its all balanced..
now shield tanking vs armor tanking is NOT balanced...
"We brake for nobody"
|
Tsual
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:36:00 -
[23]
Yesterday I saw a Tempest two times making a draw versus two different Apoc in duels.
(ask zoolkhan of FU2 and Golan Trevize of PIE about that.)
It was not the tanking that enable the tempest to do this, rather it were the dampers, what I would then call thinking out of the box.
--------------------------------------
Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life.
Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Tsual
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:36:00 -
[24]
Yesterday I saw a Tempest two times making a draw versus two different Apoc in duels.
(ask zoolkhan of FU2 and Golan Trevize of PIE about that.)
It was not the tanking that enable the tempest to do this, rather it were the dampers, what I would then call thinking out of the box.
--------------------------------------
Tsual - Miner from faith, frigat junky for life.
Ritual of the Qua'nadhar. |
Beseb
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:40:00 -
[25]
Minmatar specialty is supposed to be speed, but 30ms over other T2 battleships is too paltry to be signficant on the battlefield.
I'd like to see something that allows us highly specialized Minmatar pilots (I too have Min BS 5)to leverage that speed.
Either increase the base speed to 200/225 (Tempest/Typhoon) or give us something unique like bonuses to AB/MWD.
The damage potential is still quite excellent, but our cap situation is so bad we cannot defend ourselves as pointed out by Prophet. TomB has always had a vision of Minmatar fighters being "get in, tear em up and get out". Seems Gallente's fit that bill better with the Blasterthron.
|
Beseb
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:40:00 -
[26]
Minmatar specialty is supposed to be speed, but 30ms over other T2 battleships is too paltry to be signficant on the battlefield.
I'd like to see something that allows us highly specialized Minmatar pilots (I too have Min BS 5)to leverage that speed.
Either increase the base speed to 200/225 (Tempest/Typhoon) or give us something unique like bonuses to AB/MWD.
The damage potential is still quite excellent, but our cap situation is so bad we cannot defend ourselves as pointed out by Prophet. TomB has always had a vision of Minmatar fighters being "get in, tear em up and get out". Seems Gallente's fit that bill better with the Blasterthron.
|
ProphetGuru
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:42:00 -
[27]
 Originally by: Tsual
It was not the tanking that enable the tempest to do this, rather it were the dampers, what I would then call thinking out of the box.
Yeah and everyone knows dampers are very balanced
Come on. Yes you can come up with a setup on any ship to counter a specific setup of another ship. GL playing fulltime on chaos though.... 
Those setups do not translate over to tq in a viable fashion.
Putting ew into the equation when we are discussing tanking and dot is nothing short of retarded.
bye.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
ProphetGuru
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tsual
It was not the tanking that enable the tempest to do this, rather it were the dampers, what I would then call thinking out of the box.
Yeah and everyone knows dampers are very balanced
Come on. Yes you can come up with a setup on any ship to counter a specific setup of another ship. GL playing fulltime on chaos though....
Those setups do not translate over to tq in a viable fashion.
Putting ew into the equation when we are discussing tanking and dot is nothing short of retarded.
bye.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
dalman
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:46:00 -
[29]
Edited by: dalman on 14/07/2004 22:55:04
Hmmm
I'm not sure on this.
I don't fly a Tempest myself, but I'm pretty sure it can be fitted to be a monster at close range.
I'd go something like this:
6x dual650mm scouts
2x heavy nosferaty
quad lif MWD
heavy electro cap injector
fleeting web
7.5km scrambler
tech 2 damagemod
3 hardeners
2 L accomodation repairers
Unsure about the last medslot.
With BS lvl 5 projectiles comes very close to blasters in damage output.
While a megathron has one more turret and 2-4 more drones,
* I'd say the projectile EM/exp combo is better than the hybrid th/kin combo against BOTH armor tanking and shield tanking opponents.
* Due to weapons hardly using cap, and 2 nosferatu, the tempest can actually keep all guns and 2 L acco repairers running as long as it has cap charges left. A Megathron can't run more than guns + 1 L acco.
* The higher max speed of a tempest surely helps alot to get in range faster and waste less cap charges on MWD.
Or you could switch one repairer for a damagemod and a nosferatu for a siege with torps to go with a more damage setup.
However, I agree with the shield boosting...
The cap relay nerf was wrong IMO. They shouldn't affect shield boosting. But their cpu usage could be upped alot to get them on pair with powerdiags/rechargers.
Originally by: Beseb
Minmatar specialty is supposed to be speed, but 30ms over other T2 battleships is too paltry to be signficant on the battlefield.
I'd like to see something that allows us highly specialized Minmatar pilots (I too have Min BS 5)to leverage that speed.
Either increase the base speed to 200/225 (Tempest/Typhoon) or give us something unique like bonuses to AB/MWD..
200 - LOL
Damn, I'd be jumping of joy if my megathron would have 30 m/s higher base speed.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
dalman
|
Posted - 2004.07.14 22:46:00 -
[30]
Edited by: dalman on 14/07/2004 22:55:04
Hmmm
I'm not sure on this.
I don't fly a Tempest myself, but I'm pretty sure it can be fitted to be a monster at close range.
I'd go something like this:
6x dual650mm scouts
2x heavy nosferaty
quad lif MWD
heavy electro cap injector
fleeting web
7.5km scrambler
tech 2 damagemod
3 hardeners
2 L accomodation repairers
Unsure about the last medslot.
With BS lvl 5 projectiles comes very close to blasters in damage output.
While a megathron has one more turret and 2-4 more drones,
* I'd say the projectile EM/exp combo is better than the hybrid th/kin combo against BOTH armor tanking and shield tanking opponents.
* Due to weapons hardly using cap, and 2 nosferatu, the tempest can actually keep all guns and 2 L acco repairers running as long as it has cap charges left. A Megathron can't run more than guns + 1 L acco.
* The higher max speed of a tempest surely helps alot to get in range faster and waste less cap charges on MWD.
Or you could switch one repairer for a damagemod and a nosferatu for a siege with torps to go with a more damage setup.
However, I agree with the shield boosting...
The cap relay nerf was wrong IMO. They shouldn't affect shield boosting. But their cpu usage could be upped alot to get them on pair with powerdiags/rechargers.
Originally by: Beseb
Minmatar specialty is supposed to be speed, but 30ms over other T2 battleships is too paltry to be signficant on the battlefield.
I'd like to see something that allows us highly specialized Minmatar pilots (I too have Min BS 5)to leverage that speed.
Either increase the base speed to 200/225 (Tempest/Typhoon) or give us something unique like bonuses to AB/MWD..
200 - LOL
Damn, I'd be jumping of joy if my megathron would have 30 m/s higher base speed.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 20 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |