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Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.07.23 18:39:00 - [361] Tempest doesn't need an extra turret and nor does it need more powergrid. It just happens to have been hit hardest by the CPR change. The Raven would've been just as bad but, fortuntely, missiles were given a boost which balanced it out. As it is, Ravens are much weaker than they used to be defensively, at least. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.07.23 18:39:00 - [362] Tempest doesn't need an extra turret and nor does it need more powergrid. It just happens to have been hit hardest by the CPR change. The Raven would've been just as bad but, fortuntely, missiles were given a boost which balanced it out. As it is, Ravens are much weaker than they used to be defensively, at least. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Beseb	Posted - 2004.07.23 19:51:00 - [363] Overkill, balance has to be struck amongst 1v1 and smallish engagements. The reasons are obvious and CCP knows it - a signficant percentage of the players play solo or with a small group of close friends. Excluding one ship so it can't be competitive in this area is seriously flawed logic. The fact that anyone would actually support this defies comprehension. Fleet engagements are nice and all, but forcing players into that sort of PvP exclusively is ludicrous at every level and CCP knows it.
Beseb	Posted - 2004.07.23 19:51:00 - [364] Overkill, balance has to be struck amongst 1v1 and smallish engagements. The reasons are obvious and CCP knows it - a signficant percentage of the players play solo or with a small group of close friends. Excluding one ship so it can't be competitive in this area is seriously flawed logic. The fact that anyone would actually support this defies comprehension. Fleet engagements are nice and all, but forcing players into that sort of PvP exclusively is ludicrous at every level and CCP knows it.
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.07.23 21:14:00 - [365] another thing which has been forgotten: The Tempest suffers from the poor tech 1 tracking guns but plz dont forget that named guns and tech 2 will improve tracking and even more the Tempest will get the most bonus dmg out of these tech 2 guns compared to any other ship. So actually all I think is needed, is a slight tracking boost for the stock (tech 1) guns. (or even an overall +10% tracking boost to all projectile guns) On the other hand which is off topic tho: Pulse lasers are overpowerd in terms of tracking!!! They have no problem at all to hit even cruisers very hard and the tracking will even improve with named and tech 2 guns!!! (overall about -15% tracking for all pulse lasers) Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.07.23 21:14:00 - [366] another thing which has been forgotten: The Tempest suffers from the poor tech 1 tracking guns but plz dont forget that named guns and tech 2 will improve tracking and even more the Tempest will get the most bonus dmg out of these tech 2 guns compared to any other ship. So actually all I think is needed, is a slight tracking boost for the stock (tech 1) guns. (or even an overall +10% tracking boost to all projectile guns) On the other hand which is off topic tho: Pulse lasers are overpowerd in terms of tracking!!! They have no problem at all to hit even cruisers very hard and the tracking will even improve with named and tech 2 guns!!! (overall about -15% tracking for all pulse lasers) Greetings Grim
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.07.23 21:17:00 - [367] Perhaps a reduction in signature radius and a boost in agility would be useful? That way Tempests fit into their description as raiders/plunderer's while being harder to lock, with a smaller tracking radius, and an added bonus of mwd usage (via the agility boost)? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.07.23 21:17:00 - [368] Perhaps a reduction in signature radius and a boost in agility would be useful? That way Tempests fit into their description as raiders/plunderer's while being harder to lock, with a smaller tracking radius, and an added bonus of mwd usage (via the agility boost)? LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Estarriol	Posted - 2004.07.24 08:56:00 - [369] Originally by: OverKill By suggesting people train other ships for different purposes it allows for specialization...Its a matter of a pilot assessing what it is he is fighting against and using the strenghts of his or her vessel to their advantage. In your opinion, what are the strengths of the Tempest, in relation to other level 2 battleships? Quote: I've tried it on Tranq. No need to try on entropy. The Tempest, with the configuration I use, is a more than competent support vessel with a wingman present. Every battleship is competent against an enemy battleship, when you fly with a wingman. Quote: What is not heavy hitting about the Tempest? So what, it can't do the damage a Megathron can do at close range but take into consideration the time it takes a Megathron to get IN TO range. A tempest can eat away at it while its enroute. Yes, but Megathron can fit rails and best the Tempest from range as well. Your argument only addresses the relative merits of long range and close range setups, not the balancing of the Tempest class. Quote: Battleships are too expensive to just toss away in fleet engagements for nothing but the sake of PvP. Please explain what this means? Estarriol
Estarriol	Posted - 2004.07.24 08:56:00 - [370] Originally by: OverKill By suggesting people train other ships for different purposes it allows for specialization...Its a matter of a pilot assessing what it is he is fighting against and using the strenghts of his or her vessel to their advantage. In your opinion, what are the strengths of the Tempest, in relation to other level 2 battleships? Quote: I've tried it on Tranq. No need to try on entropy. The Tempest, with the configuration I use, is a more than competent support vessel with a wingman present. Every battleship is competent against an enemy battleship, when you fly with a wingman. Quote: What is not heavy hitting about the Tempest? So what, it can't do the damage a Megathron can do at close range but take into consideration the time it takes a Megathron to get IN TO range. A tempest can eat away at it while its enroute. Yes, but Megathron can fit rails and best the Tempest from range as well. Your argument only addresses the relative merits of long range and close range setups, not the balancing of the Tempest class. Quote: Battleships are too expensive to just toss away in fleet engagements for nothing but the sake of PvP. Please explain what this means? Estarriol
OverKill	Posted - 2004.07.24 09:44:00 - [371] Edited by: OverKill on 24/07/2004 09:56:15 Originally by: Estarriol In your opinion, what are the strengths of the Tempest, in relation to other level 2 battleships? Its range. The sheer load of firepower that the Tempest can deliver at ranges longer than any other turret based vessel in the game. 1400's against battleships are fairly powerful weapons. The time it takes one of the other 3 battleships to get within range means that the Tempest has a longer period to work it over. I've tested it, it works for me and I've seen it work for others. Originally by: Estarriol Every battleship is competent against an enemy battleship, when you fly with a wingman. And......? Originally by: Estarriol Yes, but Megathron can fit rails and best the Tempest from range as well. Your argument only addresses the relative merits of long range and close range setups, not the balancing of the Tempest class. I tried that once actually and I had the Megathron shot out from underneath me. The Tempest pilot later showed me the loadout he used and how it complimented the ships strengths. He was pounding me from 80-90km in addition to missiles. Then when I got in closer he was using dual 800's. On the inside of close it was drones, in addition to everything else. As I hit him in return he was shield tanking. Originally by: Estarriol Please explain what this means? Sure... A ship, which costs 100m average, is simply too expensive to go out and PvP in every single day. Not everyone is a guru at combat and would potentially lose hundreds of millions per week to PvP. I'm finding more people are coming to the fight in Cruisers and Frigates because they can replace them cheaper and faster than a battleship. OverKill [email protected] - http://www.hadean.org Chief Executive Officer - Hadean Drive Yards
OverKill	Posted - 2004.07.24 09:44:00 - [372] Edited by: OverKill on 24/07/2004 09:56:15 Originally by: Estarriol In your opinion, what are the strengths of the Tempest, in relation to other level 2 battleships? Its range. The sheer load of firepower that the Tempest can deliver at ranges longer than any other turret based vessel in the game. 1400's against battleships are fairly powerful weapons. The time it takes one of the other 3 battleships to get within range means that the Tempest has a longer period to work it over. I've tested it, it works for me and I've seen it work for others. Originally by: Estarriol Every battleship is competent against an enemy battleship, when you fly with a wingman. And......? Originally by: Estarriol Yes, but Megathron can fit rails and best the Tempest from range as well. Your argument only addresses the relative merits of long range and close range setups, not the balancing of the Tempest class. I tried that once actually and I had the Megathron shot out from underneath me. The Tempest pilot later showed me the loadout he used and how it complimented the ships strengths. He was pounding me from 80-90km in addition to missiles. Then when I got in closer he was using dual 800's. On the inside of close it was drones, in addition to everything else. As I hit him in return he was shield tanking. Originally by: Estarriol Please explain what this means? Sure... A ship, which costs 100m average, is simply too expensive to go out and PvP in every single day. Not everyone is a guru at combat and would potentially lose hundreds of millions per week to PvP. I'm finding more people are coming to the fight in Cruisers and Frigates because they can replace them cheaper and faster than a battleship. OverKill [email protected] - http://www.hadean.org Chief Executive Officer - Hadean Drive Yards
Sewell	Posted - 2004.07.24 10:34:00 - [373] Quote: I tried that once actually and I had the Megathron shot out from underneath me. The Tempest pilot later showed me the loadout he used and how it complimented the ships strengths. He was pounding me from 80-90km in addition to missiles. Then when I got in closer he was using dual 800's. On the inside of close it was drones, in addition to everything else. As I hit him in return he was shield tanking. Well, ask someone for a better megathron setup and try again. If you lost to a tempest setup with both 1400 (long range) and 800 (short range), you are, frankly, doing something horribly wrong. And overkill, if you have a point to make - do so - but plese stop trolling in this oterwise prefectly sensible thread.
Sewell	Posted - 2004.07.24 10:34:00 - [374] Quote: I tried that once actually and I had the Megathron shot out from underneath me. The Tempest pilot later showed me the loadout he used and how it complimented the ships strengths. He was pounding me from 80-90km in addition to missiles. Then when I got in closer he was using dual 800's. On the inside of close it was drones, in addition to everything else. As I hit him in return he was shield tanking. Well, ask someone for a better megathron setup and try again. If you lost to a tempest setup with both 1400 (long range) and 800 (short range), you are, frankly, doing something horribly wrong. And overkill, if you have a point to make - do so - but plese stop trolling in this oterwise prefectly sensible thread.
Estarriol	Posted - 2004.07.24 15:00:00 - [375] Okay, sorry, just have one more thing to ask... Originally by: OverKill A ship, which costs 100m average, is simply too expensive to go out and PvP in every single day. If you feel that it is too risky to go out and PvP in a battleship every day, then why are you arguing with people who actually do it? Estarriol
Estarriol	Posted - 2004.07.24 15:00:00 - [376] Okay, sorry, just have one more thing to ask... Originally by: OverKill A ship, which costs 100m average, is simply too expensive to go out and PvP in every single day. If you feel that it is too risky to go out and PvP in a battleship every day, then why are you arguing with people who actually do it? Estarriol
Hellek	Posted - 2004.07.24 15:13:00 - [377] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Perhaps a reduction in signature radius and a boost in agility would be useful? That way Tempests fit into their description as raiders/plunderer's while being harder to lock, with a smaller tracking radius, and an added bonus of mwd usage (via the agility boost)? Well, using a MWD will make the smaller sig-radius very useless unless a third bonus which counters the MWD sig radius nerf would be introduced. I know the 1vs1 guys would cry out aloud (as I doubt it would help much for 1vs1), but in other forms of combat, it would allow interesting tactics I think.
Hellek	Posted - 2004.07.24 15:13:00 - [378] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Perhaps a reduction in signature radius and a boost in agility would be useful? That way Tempests fit into their description as raiders/plunderer's while being harder to lock, with a smaller tracking radius, and an added bonus of mwd usage (via the agility boost)? Well, using a MWD will make the smaller sig-radius very useless unless a third bonus which counters the MWD sig radius nerf would be introduced. I know the 1vs1 guys would cry out aloud (as I doubt it would help much for 1vs1), but in other forms of combat, it would allow interesting tactics I think.
Siddy	Posted - 2004.07.24 15:51:00 - [379] Originally by: OverKill Edited by: OverKill on 24/07/2004 09:56:15 Originally by: Estarriol In your opinion, what are the strengths of the Tempest, in relation to other level 2 battleships? Its range. The sheer load of firepower that the Tempest can deliver at ranges longer than any other turret based vessel in the game. 1400's against battleships are fairly powerful weapons. The time it takes one of the other 3 battleships to get within range means that the Tempest has a longer period to work it over. I've tested it, it works for me and I've seen it work for others. Ok - lets spekulate abaut some scenarios REaction of Railtron/tachapoch or Raven against Howizer Tempest on 60 -70km + Megatron/apoch/raven: oh look! - a tempest far out on horizont, but whit nerffed faalof range it got to use some crappeh ammo and my defenses can hold 1400mm's off anyway and if things get scary i just warp out ... Reactions on 15 - 20km range (were 1400mm's trakking dont work) Railtron: Darng .. why oh why i didint take blasters - oh well, i still outdamage it and if i move a bit the thing dont hit a p00 Tach apoch: RoFL - that tikkles, do that insane Tempest user realy think i run out of cap Raven: PWNED /emote add's another "kill" mark aside of ship Now lets take a closer look on Close range combat reactions Blastertron: Pwned apoch: Pwned Raven: pwned yes - as you see at close and long range setups the nerf of tempest equipments has been so drastik that it cant operate at any range and the thing that amazes me is that long range ammo in projektiles got crappier damage than shortrange ammo WHY? -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.07.24 15:51:00 - [380] Originally by: OverKill Edited by: OverKill on 24/07/2004 09:56:15 Originally by: Estarriol In your opinion, what are the strengths of the Tempest, in relation to other level 2 battleships? Its range. The sheer load of firepower that the Tempest can deliver at ranges longer than any other turret based vessel in the game. 1400's against battleships are fairly powerful weapons. The time it takes one of the other 3 battleships to get within range means that the Tempest has a longer period to work it over. I've tested it, it works for me and I've seen it work for others. Ok - lets spekulate abaut some scenarios REaction of Railtron/tachapoch or Raven against Howizer Tempest on 60 -70km + Megatron/apoch/raven: oh look! - a tempest far out on horizont, but whit nerffed faalof range it got to use some crappeh ammo and my defenses can hold 1400mm's off anyway and if things get scary i just warp out ... Reactions on 15 - 20km range (were 1400mm's trakking dont work) Railtron: Darng .. why oh why i didint take blasters - oh well, i still outdamage it and if i move a bit the thing dont hit a p00 Tach apoch: RoFL - that tikkles, do that insane Tempest user realy think i run out of cap Raven: PWNED /emote add's another "kill" mark aside of ship Now lets take a closer look on Close range combat reactions Blastertron: Pwned apoch: Pwned Raven: pwned yes - as you see at close and long range setups the nerf of tempest equipments has been so drastik that it cant operate at any range and the thing that amazes me is that long range ammo in projektiles got crappier damage than shortrange ammo WHY? -------------------------------------------
Zu Lu	Posted - 2004.07.25 16:59:00 - [381] Edited by: Zu Lu on 25/07/2004 18:41:05 Edited by: Zu Lu on 25/07/2004 17:11:00 What worries me is what Tomb said in the last big turret thread ; 'No nerfs have happened to Minmatar or Projectiles: 1. Artilleries have better tracking than before, currently on Entropy 2. All ammo's besides Phased Plasma and EMP have gotten damage increase 3. AutoCannons / Repeating Artilleries have more range with the fall off changes The bonus you have with projectiles is that you can continue your fire none stop while going full defence, where as Laser users or Hybrid users have to stop their fire to concentrate on defence. Another bonus is that you can do all 4 damage types and with the damage increase in various ammo types it can now ... be thought over and seen how good it works. Pulse Lasers also got boosted and can now be used aOK for Laser users, although they do not do as much damage as Blasters, it's a start for their balance as well. I wonder why so many are calling the boosts already done for projectiles a nerf.' My thoughts on points and quote... 1. Tomb calls this a boost but it actually was needed for artilleries to hit at all. They do not hit better now (tracking-wise) than they did before all the tracking changes took place. 2. All the pretty useless ammo then eh, which do such low damage anyway it is laughable. 3. Maybe, but if you are doing the warp scrambling you still need to get under 7.5 km. Also about the no cap weapons bonus he states above, yes it is a significant advantage but the Tempest has been weakened defensively. For the long range shield tank set up nerfs are 1) CPR 2) major cpu issues as powerdiags have to be used instead of CPR and also the cruise missile changes meaning to fire them need to use more cpu than previously - yes projectiles dont use loads of cpu but shield tanking does and so do missile launchers - did anyone think the Tempest needed a cpu nerf ?? thought not as it was tight before anyway. Millions of named equipment and it still struggles. You can have a defensively good long range set up using armor tanking but the damage out put is laughable and not worth it at all imo. Also other ships do not need to use as much cap for defence when fighting a tempest cos it has lowest damage output of tier 2 bs whereas if the tempest is fighting a damage dealer like mega,raven and apoc it has to use a lot of cap to keep up. Tempest also has poor base cap. Also having to use a tracking comp in most situations means you lose a midslot which could be used for cap recharger 2 or whatever on other ships. The cruise missile DOT has suffered cos cruise launchers require bonuses and mods to make them worthwhile and siege launchers have very high fitting. Close range armor tanking set up has also suffered in fitting as using 800mm's and siege is too much for grid. Tracking doesn't figure in the turret comparison graphs that tomb posted which means that projectiles are even worse than displayed. Just my opinions, now where is that Minmatar boycott thread edit : forgot to mention the mysterious decrease in damage on the 1400mm's which is one of the main issues..
Zu Lu	Posted - 2004.07.25 16:59:00 - [382] Edited by: Zu Lu on 25/07/2004 18:41:05 Edited by: Zu Lu on 25/07/2004 17:11:00 What worries me is what Tomb said in the last big turret thread ; 'No nerfs have happened to Minmatar or Projectiles: 1. Artilleries have better tracking than before, currently on Entropy 2. All ammo's besides Phased Plasma and EMP have gotten damage increase 3. AutoCannons / Repeating Artilleries have more range with the fall off changes The bonus you have with projectiles is that you can continue your fire none stop while going full defence, where as Laser users or Hybrid users have to stop their fire to concentrate on defence. Another bonus is that you can do all 4 damage types and with the damage increase in various ammo types it can now ... be thought over and seen how good it works. Pulse Lasers also got boosted and can now be used aOK for Laser users, although they do not do as much damage as Blasters, it's a start for their balance as well. I wonder why so many are calling the boosts already done for projectiles a nerf.' My thoughts on points and quote... 1. Tomb calls this a boost but it actually was needed for artilleries to hit at all. They do not hit better now (tracking-wise) than they did before all the tracking changes took place. 2. All the pretty useless ammo then eh, which do such low damage anyway it is laughable. 3. Maybe, but if you are doing the warp scrambling you still need to get under 7.5 km. Also about the no cap weapons bonus he states above, yes it is a significant advantage but the Tempest has been weakened defensively. For the long range shield tank set up nerfs are 1) CPR 2) major cpu issues as powerdiags have to be used instead of CPR and also the cruise missile changes meaning to fire them need to use more cpu than previously - yes projectiles dont use loads of cpu but shield tanking does and so do missile launchers - did anyone think the Tempest needed a cpu nerf ?? thought not as it was tight before anyway. Millions of named equipment and it still struggles. You can have a defensively good long range set up using armor tanking but the damage out put is laughable and not worth it at all imo. Also other ships do not need to use as much cap for defence when fighting a tempest cos it has lowest damage output of tier 2 bs whereas if the tempest is fighting a damage dealer like mega,raven and apoc it has to use a lot of cap to keep up. Tempest also has poor base cap. Also having to use a tracking comp in most situations means you lose a midslot which could be used for cap recharger 2 or whatever on other ships. The cruise missile DOT has suffered cos cruise launchers require bonuses and mods to make them worthwhile and siege launchers have very high fitting. Close range armor tanking set up has also suffered in fitting as using 800mm's and siege is too much for grid. Tracking doesn't figure in the turret comparison graphs that tomb posted which means that projectiles are even worse than displayed. Just my opinions, now where is that Minmatar boycott thread edit : forgot to mention the mysterious decrease in damage on the 1400mm's which is one of the main issues..
Kalarin	Posted - 2004.07.26 08:14:00 - [383] Tempest are realy bad ship now. To low damage (I have 150-200 damage most of time from 1400mm), bad ability to shield tanking (after nerf of Cap Power Relay), requrement to have a tracking mods - it simple can't survive against of other BS (2 level). I don't know, is devs testing changes at all.
Kalarin	Posted - 2004.07.26 08:14:00 - [384] Tempest are realy bad ship now. To low damage (I have 150-200 damage most of time from 1400mm), bad ability to shield tanking (after nerf of Cap Power Relay), requrement to have a tracking mods - it simple can't survive against of other BS (2 level). I don't know, is devs testing changes at all.
allmus	Posted - 2004.07.26 10:54:00 - [385] i'm just curious, what's the top damages everyone get's in the past week with 1400mm guns(not named, just basic) i'm wondering coz 3-4 weeks ago i was getting (rare) wreaking hit's of 700-850 when i could hit atall but in the past 2 weeks even with wreaking shot's using the EXACT same setup as 3-4 weeks ago i can't get beyond 300 it's really annoying having 4 1400mm guns and not even be able top solo BS npc's as they tank more then my max damage at my op range(and i used phased plasma and titanium sabots, and both weren't above 300 at both there op range) i think if the proj guns got some un-nerfing tempest would be a viable ship again, but at the moment they are useless just coz they can't last. if they fit 6 1400mm guns then... they haven't got the cpu's for shield tank they haven't got power grid to armor tank they haven't got enough cpu's or power grids to even put on damage mod's, or tracking mod's also for the 6x1400mm guns they need added reactor powergrid mod's fitted this post was funded by Quafe now available in minmatar red. try our new product. Quafe's caldari version "press missiles 4TW" limited sales offer before the next universal improvement
allmus	Posted - 2004.07.26 10:54:00 - [386] i'm just curious, what's the top damages everyone get's in the past week with 1400mm guns(not named, just basic) i'm wondering coz 3-4 weeks ago i was getting (rare) wreaking hit's of 700-850 when i could hit atall but in the past 2 weeks even with wreaking shot's using the EXACT same setup as 3-4 weeks ago i can't get beyond 300 it's really annoying having 4 1400mm guns and not even be able top solo BS npc's as they tank more then my max damage at my op range(and i used phased plasma and titanium sabots, and both weren't above 300 at both there op range) i think if the proj guns got some un-nerfing tempest would be a viable ship again, but at the moment they are useless just coz they can't last. if they fit 6 1400mm guns then... they haven't got the cpu's for shield tank they haven't got power grid to armor tank they haven't got enough cpu's or power grids to even put on damage mod's, or tracking mod's also for the 6x1400mm guns they need added reactor powergrid mod's fitted this post was funded by Quafe now available in minmatar red. try our new product. Quafe's caldari version "press missiles 4TW" limited sales offer before the next universal improvement
Estios	Posted - 2004.07.26 11:22:00 - [387] Edited by: Estios on 26/07/2004 11:30:01 I have just bought a Apoc, I feel so dirty Prophet, can't get some of the GM's in your corp to address my beloved Tempest Siddy - you forget Fusion ammo dude, it rocks against Armour, if you are ignoring it its a shame Deadzone and Overkill you probably should listen to his advice and unplug your keyboards. Your arguments are pitiful at best. It actually hurts my eyes reading it. Did one of you clowns say Minmatar only have long range guns and therefore are long range ships. Yes those Dual 425 and Dual 650's are such long range guns . Ravens used to get a range bonus for Rail guns, omg therefore they are long range range Rail specialists...I demand you all stop using missle launchers and torps at 15km So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Estios	Posted - 2004.07.26 11:22:00 - [388] Edited by: Estios on 26/07/2004 11:30:01 I have just bought a Apoc, I feel so dirty Prophet, can't get some of the GM's in your corp to address my beloved Tempest Siddy - you forget Fusion ammo dude, it rocks against Armour, if you are ignoring it its a shame Deadzone and Overkill you probably should listen to his advice and unplug your keyboards. Your arguments are pitiful at best. It actually hurts my eyes reading it. Did one of you clowns say Minmatar only have long range guns and therefore are long range ships. Yes those Dual 425 and Dual 650's are such long range guns . Ravens used to get a range bonus for Rail guns, omg therefore they are long range range Rail specialists...I demand you all stop using missle launchers and torps at 15km So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Siddy	Posted - 2004.07.26 15:15:00 - [389] Originally by: Estios Edited by: Estios on 26/07/2004 11:30:01 Siddy - you forget Fusion ammo dude, it rocks against Armour, if you are ignoring it its a shame Works only in autocannons too short range for 1400mm's and yes - its currently the only ammo that can even tickle armor tanks -------------------------------------------
Siddy	Posted - 2004.07.26 15:15:00 - [390] Originally by: Estios Edited by: Estios on 26/07/2004 11:30:01 Siddy - you forget Fusion ammo dude, it rocks against Armour, if you are ignoring it its a shame Works only in autocannons too short range for 1400mm's and yes - its currently the only ammo that can even tickle armor tanks -------------------------------------------

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