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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:32:00 -
[91]
 Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Quote:
perhaps switch the turret / bay slots round? 4 launchers, 2 turrets or perhaps 3/3
4 Launcher / 2 Turret would make the Caracal Obsolete.
3 Launcher / 3 Turret would make it weaker.
well, with 4/2 the caracal would still have the extra launcher point & a bonus to ROF
hmm on reflection you're right re 3/3 as any dmg mods would only apply to half your weaponry.
perhaps a % reduction in fitting requirements on cruise missile launchers ;-) ?
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Gunstar Zero
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:32:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Quote:
perhaps switch the turret / bay slots round? 4 launchers, 2 turrets or perhaps 3/3
4 Launcher / 2 Turret would make the Caracal Obsolete.
3 Launcher / 3 Turret would make it weaker.
well, with 4/2 the caracal would still have the extra launcher point & a bonus to ROF
hmm on reflection you're right re 3/3 as any dmg mods would only apply to half your weaponry.
perhaps a % reduction in fitting requirements on cruise missile launchers ;-) ?
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Teutobod
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:32:00 -
[93]
Originally by: sableye
Originally by: Teutobod
I'd say no.
It would overpower it.
with the ability to only use 4 heavy drone or medfium drones it would be weak, you can't even fit good weapons now without filling your low full of reactor controls and if you do you have no room for any type defense.
I would agree that if you wish to fit 5x250mm Railguns or 5x Heavy Neutron you'll have definataly have to use grid enhancers. But, there are other guns in the pond you know.
Electrons blasters are quite good and so are Ions.
Maybe try 5x 200mm railguns on for size?
You are not supposed to fit a full array of the best guns and be able to sustain a lot of damage. That is at least how I understand it.
That the apoc can do it rigth now is another matter
Let's assume a 5% bonus to grid for now. 700*1,25 is 875. With Cruiser IV you'll get a grid of 1050 and still have all low available. 5 neutrons eat 1125 PG. You'll be short 75 PG.
You'll still need some PG enahcners to make a decent fit, but not nearly as many as before.
Now let's look at Ions. They are very good guns and often used.
150 mW * 5 = 750 PG. You'll have 300 PG spare. That should leave room to fit Armor rep, hardners and probably a damage mod. Then some cap batteries/recharges in med perhaps.
I think it would overpower it.
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Teutobod
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:32:00 -
[94]
Originally by: sableye
Originally by: Teutobod
I'd say no.
It would overpower it.
with the ability to only use 4 heavy drone or medfium drones it would be weak, you can't even fit good weapons now without filling your low full of reactor controls and if you do you have no room for any type defense.
I would agree that if you wish to fit 5x250mm Railguns or 5x Heavy Neutron you'll have definataly have to use grid enhancers. But, there are other guns in the pond you know.
Electrons blasters are quite good and so are Ions.
Maybe try 5x 200mm railguns on for size?
You are not supposed to fit a full array of the best guns and be able to sustain a lot of damage. That is at least how I understand it.
That the apoc can do it rigth now is another matter
Let's assume a 5% bonus to grid for now. 700*1,25 is 875. With Cruiser IV you'll get a grid of 1050 and still have all low available. 5 neutrons eat 1125 PG. You'll be short 75 PG.
You'll still need some PG enahcners to make a decent fit, but not nearly as many as before.
Now let's look at Ions. They are very good guns and often used.
150 mW * 5 = 750 PG. You'll have 300 PG spare. That should leave room to fit Armor rep, hardners and probably a damage mod. Then some cap batteries/recharges in med perhaps.
I think it would overpower it.
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:33:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Jarjar
Time to look out for blackbirds with 5 multispecs and Moa's with some really niec tanking ability 
Yeah cycle jammer's gallore.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:33:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Jarjar
Time to look out for blackbirds with 5 multispecs and Moa's with some really niec tanking ability
Yeah cycle jammer's gallore.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:35:00 -
[97]
All the changes look awesome, just what we needed, good job
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K. Raven
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Kalast Raven
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:35:00 -
[98]
All the changes look awesome, just what we needed, good job
-------
K. Raven
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:35:00 -
[99]
I'm pretty much in agreement with the ideas set out in this, however I still firmly believe (as has been said before in this thread and many others) Cruisers need more base hitpoints.
As for the Amarr cruisers, can you turn the free high slot on them into another turret? Keeping the current CPU and powergrid the same will mean you wont be able to shoe horn another medium gun on there (apart from the arbi) but some of us turret ***** Amarr's feel that a non turret high slot is a travesty
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Parallax Error
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:35:00 -
[100]
I'm pretty much in agreement with the ideas set out in this, however I still firmly believe (as has been said before in this thread and many others) Cruisers need more base hitpoints.
As for the Amarr cruisers, can you turn the free high slot on them into another turret? Keeping the current CPU and powergrid the same will mean you wont be able to shoe horn another medium gun on there (apart from the arbi) but some of us turret ***** Amarr's feel that a non turret high slot is a travesty
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:45:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Originally by: Grimpak
Nerf: take drone bay from 2000 to 1000
Comment: still the most destructive cruiser out there
fine.. but i think the nerf is too big, because the descriptiom of the thorax says:
Quote:
The Thorax-class cruisers are the latest combat ships commissioned by the Federation. In the few times it has seen action since its christening, it has performed admirably. The hordes of combat drones it carries allow it to strike against unwary opponents far away and to easily fight many opponents at the same time.
TomB stated in his first comment:
Quote:
Please note that anything posted below might change, also various others stats or descriptions of the ships:
yeah.. but maybe 1200 or even 1500 inestead of 1000? think that would be enough. That and increas survivability of the light and medium drones, and introduction of 2 new medium drones, because just thermal and EM damage is kinda limiting.
-------------------
Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:45:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
Originally by: Grimpak
Nerf: take drone bay from 2000 to 1000
Comment: still the most destructive cruiser out there
fine.. but i think the nerf is too big, because the descriptiom of the thorax says:
Quote:
The Thorax-class cruisers are the latest combat ships commissioned by the Federation. In the few times it has seen action since its christening, it has performed admirably. The hordes of combat drones it carries allow it to strike against unwary opponents far away and to easily fight many opponents at the same time.
TomB stated in his first comment:
Quote:
Please note that anything posted below might change, also various others stats or descriptions of the ships:
yeah.. but maybe 1200 or even 1500 inestead of 1000? think that would be enough. That and increas survivability of the light and medium drones, and introduction of 2 new medium drones, because just thermal and EM damage is kinda limiting.
-------------------
Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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COUGAR ONE
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:48:00 -
[103]
Edited by: COUGAR ONE on 23/07/2004 11:52:45
As for the Shield boosting bonus for the Moa, that would be great except for one thing, you need cap for the shield boosting, how do you recharge the capacitor, with low slot power relays. That will nerf you whole bonus to shield boosting with the nerf on power relays.
The Maller ? Come on TomB give it a power grid boost. Most of the other cruisers yo can fit 3 or 4 medium guns on them, have you tried doing that with a maller, not happening. Nice bonus that you give it, but as is doesnt stand a chance against other tier 3 cruisers, it just doesnt match up in firepower. Not to mention that it doesnt have any drones or any missle launchers. What do you say TomB give the maller some loving. Other than that Nice work, look forward to the changes.
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COUGAR ONE
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:48:00 -
[104]
Edited by: COUGAR ONE on 23/07/2004 11:52:45
As for the Shield boosting bonus for the Moa, that would be great except for one thing, you need cap for the shield boosting, how do you recharge the capacitor, with low slot power relays. That will nerf you whole bonus to shield boosting with the nerf on power relays.
The Maller ? Come on TomB give it a power grid boost. Most of the other cruisers yo can fit 3 or 4 medium guns on them, have you tried doing that with a maller, not happening. Nice bonus that you give it, but as is doesnt stand a chance against other tier 3 cruisers, it just doesnt match up in firepower. Not to mention that it doesnt have any drones or any missle launchers. What do you say TomB give the maller some loving. Other than that Nice work, look forward to the changes.
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Mechkilla
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:48:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Mechkilla on 23/07/2004 11:53:56
As some mentioned already. I also like the great variety of new ship bonus too. But I hope you will also take a look into the normal attributes.
Blackbird: as an EW plattform, it should have good targeting range and a nice scan resolution. Maybe you can increase the signature radius as penalty because EW modules boost your radiation.
Caracal: since I looked into the specs I didn't like the ability to mount turrents on a missile plattform. Rip em off .
Moa: its role is a Gunship, isn't it? Increase the mountable turrets from 4 to 5. Maybe with an powergrid increase (but not really necessary).
I can't wait to test those new improvements on Entropy ... damn work  .
____________________________________________
CEO of Asgard Schiffswerften
*** Proud member of [G] ***
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Mechkilla
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:48:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Mechkilla on 23/07/2004 11:53:56
As some mentioned already. I also like the great variety of new ship bonus too. But I hope you will also take a look into the normal attributes.
Blackbird: as an EW plattform, it should have good targeting range and a nice scan resolution. Maybe you can increase the signature radius as penalty because EW modules boost your radiation.
Caracal: since I looked into the specs I didn't like the ability to mount turrents on a missile plattform. Rip em off .
Moa: its role is a Gunship, isn't it? Increase the mountable turrets from 4 to 5. Maybe with an powergrid increase (but not really necessary).
I can't wait to test those new improvements on Entropy ... damn work .
____________________________________________
CEO of Asgard Schiffswerften
*** Proud member of [G] ***
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NemesisNL
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:53:00 -
[107]
I would agree that if you wish to fit 5x250mm Railguns or 5x Heavy Neutron you'll have definataly have to use grid enhancers. But, there are other guns in the pond you know.
Electrons blasters are quite good and so are Ions.
Maybe try 5x 200mm railguns on for size?
You are not supposed to fit a full array of the best guns and be able to sustain a lot of damage. That is at least how I understand it.
That the apoc can do it rigth now is another matter
Let's assume a 5% bonus to grid for now. 700*1,25 is 875. With Cruiser IV you'll get a grid of 1050 and still have all low available. 5 neutrons eat 1125 PG. You'll be short 75 PG.
You'll still need some PG enahcners to make a decent fit, but not nearly as many as before.
Now let's look at Ions. They are very good guns and often used.
150 mW * 5 = 750 PG. You'll have 300 PG spare. That should leave room to fit Armor rep, hardners and probably a damage mod. Then some cap batteries/recharges in med perhaps.
I think it would overpower it.
then lets compare to the MOA
it can fit 4x250mm like thorax and 2 heavy launchers on top of that.
it gets a shield boosting bonus so it defences improve.
it has 50 more base grid so you need less grid boosters to get a decent fitting.
agreed it doenst get the damage bonus of the thorax but it does get a range bonus meaning it can pound away on the rax before even recieving any damage.
if not a grid bonus then maybe an extra low or medium slot. |
NemesisNL
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:53:00 -
[108]
I would agree that if you wish to fit 5x250mm Railguns or 5x Heavy Neutron you'll have definataly have to use grid enhancers. But, there are other guns in the pond you know.
Electrons blasters are quite good and so are Ions.
Maybe try 5x 200mm railguns on for size?
You are not supposed to fit a full array of the best guns and be able to sustain a lot of damage. That is at least how I understand it.
That the apoc can do it rigth now is another matter
Let's assume a 5% bonus to grid for now. 700*1,25 is 875. With Cruiser IV you'll get a grid of 1050 and still have all low available. 5 neutrons eat 1125 PG. You'll be short 75 PG.
You'll still need some PG enahcners to make a decent fit, but not nearly as many as before.
Now let's look at Ions. They are very good guns and often used.
150 mW * 5 = 750 PG. You'll have 300 PG spare. That should leave room to fit Armor rep, hardners and probably a damage mod. Then some cap batteries/recharges in med perhaps.
I think it would overpower it.
then lets compare to the MOA
it can fit 4x250mm like thorax and 2 heavy launchers on top of that.
it gets a shield boosting bonus so it defences improve.
it has 50 more base grid so you need less grid boosters to get a decent fitting.
agreed it doenst get the damage bonus of the thorax but it does get a range bonus meaning it can pound away on the rax before even recieving any damage.
if not a grid bonus then maybe an extra low or medium slot. |
Hellek
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:56:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Teutobod
Since I fly Amarr ships only I got to say I like the 2nd bonus. With Amarr Cruiser IV and an Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II you get the following resistance.
EM: 74,4%
Expl: 48,16%
Kin: 52%
Thrm: 58,4%
Not bad for the cost of just 1 low. And, the Energized is passive.
I don't think that the majority of the maller pilots have Hull Upgrades lvl5 and want to fit a 5mill mod. Still, the bonus is pretty nice, yep.
With the T1, its 72, 45, 49, 55 (em/expl./kin./thermal)
The BB looks pretty powerful now, with that big amount of cap it has, I mean imagine a BB cycle-jamming multiple BS, making them totally unable to fire anything, a bit too much in my opinion but I can't try how much cap that ship really has (if it really can cycle jam for a while) as I can't fly it. Just thinking it makes it overpowered because its already one of the most important cruisers so I assume a 5% per level would be sufficient (a nice bonus which does not change too much though).
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Hellek
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:56:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Teutobod
Since I fly Amarr ships only I got to say I like the 2nd bonus. With Amarr Cruiser IV and an Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II you get the following resistance.
EM: 74,4%
Expl: 48,16%
Kin: 52%
Thrm: 58,4%
Not bad for the cost of just 1 low. And, the Energized is passive.
I don't think that the majority of the maller pilots have Hull Upgrades lvl5 and want to fit a 5mill mod. Still, the bonus is pretty nice, yep.
With the T1, its 72, 45, 49, 55 (em/expl./kin./thermal)
The BB looks pretty powerful now, with that big amount of cap it has, I mean imagine a BB cycle-jamming multiple BS, making them totally unable to fire anything, a bit too much in my opinion but I can't try how much cap that ship really has (if it really can cycle jam for a while) as I can't fly it. Just thinking it makes it overpowered because its already one of the most important cruisers so I assume a 5% per level would be sufficient (a nice bonus which does not change too much though).
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Teutobod
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:57:00 -
[111]
Originally by: NemesisNL
I would agree that if you wish to fit 5x250mm Railguns or 5x Heavy Neutron you'll have definataly have to use grid enhancers. But, there are other guns in the pond you know.
Electrons blasters are quite good and so are Ions.
Maybe try 5x 200mm railguns on for size?
You are not supposed to fit a full array of the best guns and be able to sustain a lot of damage. That is at least how I understand it.
That the apoc can do it rigth now is another matter
Let's assume a 5% bonus to grid for now. 700*1,25 is 875. With Cruiser IV you'll get a grid of 1050 and still have all low available. 5 neutrons eat 1125 PG. You'll be short 75 PG.
You'll still need some PG enahcners to make a decent fit, but not nearly as many as before.
Now let's look at Ions. They are very good guns and often used.
150 mW * 5 = 750 PG. You'll have 300 PG spare. That should leave room to fit Armor rep, hardners and probably a damage mod. Then some cap batteries/recharges in med perhaps.
I think it would overpower it.
then lets compare to the MOA
it can fit 4x250mm like thorax and 2 heavy launchers on top of that.
it gets a shield boosting bonus so it defences improve.
it has 50 more base grid so you need less grid boosters to get a decent fitting.
agreed it doenst get the damage bonus of the thorax but it does get a range bonus meaning it can pound away on the rax before even recieving any damage.
if not a grid bonus then maybe an extra low or medium slot.
And the Thorax can use MWD to close the gap rather fast plus despite a nerf to the dones bay it can still use uite a lot of drones.
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Teutobod
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:57:00 -
[112]
Originally by: NemesisNL
I would agree that if you wish to fit 5x250mm Railguns or 5x Heavy Neutron you'll have definataly have to use grid enhancers. But, there are other guns in the pond you know.
Electrons blasters are quite good and so are Ions.
Maybe try 5x 200mm railguns on for size?
You are not supposed to fit a full array of the best guns and be able to sustain a lot of damage. That is at least how I understand it.
That the apoc can do it rigth now is another matter
Let's assume a 5% bonus to grid for now. 700*1,25 is 875. With Cruiser IV you'll get a grid of 1050 and still have all low available. 5 neutrons eat 1125 PG. You'll be short 75 PG.
You'll still need some PG enahcners to make a decent fit, but not nearly as many as before.
Now let's look at Ions. They are very good guns and often used.
150 mW * 5 = 750 PG. You'll have 300 PG spare. That should leave room to fit Armor rep, hardners and probably a damage mod. Then some cap batteries/recharges in med perhaps.
I think it would overpower it.
then lets compare to the MOA
it can fit 4x250mm like thorax and 2 heavy launchers on top of that.
it gets a shield boosting bonus so it defences improve.
it has 50 more base grid so you need less grid boosters to get a decent fitting.
agreed it doenst get the damage bonus of the thorax but it does get a range bonus meaning it can pound away on the rax before even recieving any damage.
if not a grid bonus then maybe an extra low or medium slot.
And the Thorax can use MWD to close the gap rather fast plus despite a nerf to the dones bay it can still use uite a lot of drones.
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Elrathias
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:59:00 -
[113]
well i have to agree i like these changes. the thorax was way overpowered anyway.
just dont listen to the morons complaining they cant fit 8 wasps/ogres and then put on 5 modal heavy neutrons.
first thaughts on it,
maller:
Nice bonus u are giving it.. suppose thats to compensat for having so little pg u have to fit alot of PDU's to fit a full set of lasers.. even less-than-beam variants.
Exequror:
Love it. finaly a mini-infy that can fit mwds.
--------------------------
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Elrathias
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:59:00 -
[114]
well i have to agree i like these changes. the thorax was way overpowered anyway.
just dont listen to the morons complaining they cant fit 8 wasps/ogres and then put on 5 modal heavy neutrons.
first thaughts on it,
maller:
Nice bonus u are giving it.. suppose thats to compensat for having so little pg u have to fit alot of PDU's to fit a full set of lasers.. even less-than-beam variants.
Exequror:
Love it. finaly a mini-infy that can fit mwds.
--------------------------
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sableye
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:59:00 -
[115]
Edited by: sableye on 23/07/2004 12:00:42
Originally by: Teutobod[:?
I would agree that if you wish to fit 5x250mm Railguns or 5x Heavy Neutron you'll have definataly have to use grid enhancers. But, there are other guns in the pond you know.
Electrons blasters are quite good and so are Ions.
Maybe try 5x 200mm railguns on for size?
snipped...
the carcal a level 2 cruiser can fit 5 heavy launchers (so full power offense) and has room spare to fit anything else you could want, it does'nt require and slots ot be taken up for power or cpu needs.
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sableye
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Posted - 2004.07.23 11:59:00 -
[116]
Edited by: sableye on 23/07/2004 12:00:42
Originally by: Teutobod[:?
I would agree that if you wish to fit 5x250mm Railguns or 5x Heavy Neutron you'll have definataly have to use grid enhancers. But, there are other guns in the pond you know.
Electrons blasters are quite good and so are Ions.
Maybe try 5x 200mm railguns on for size?
snipped...
the carcal a level 2 cruiser can fit 5 heavy launchers (so full power offense) and has room spare to fit anything else you could want, it does'nt require and slots ot be taken up for power or cpu needs.
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Waagaa Ktlehr
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:01:00 -
[117]
@Thorax drones bay "nerf": 1000 drone space is still 10 medium drones, when drone changes come in (planned together with these changes?!) then it won't make that much sense packing ogres/wasps in a thorax anymore methinks. looks balanced :)
------------------------------------------
I am a love machine, feeding my fantasy, give me a kiss or three, have fun!
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Waagaa Ktlehr
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:01:00 -
[118]
@Thorax drones bay "nerf": 1000 drone space is still 10 medium drones, when drone changes come in (planned together with these changes?!) then it won't make that much sense packing ogres/wasps in a thorax anymore methinks. looks balanced :)
------------------------------------------
I am a love machine, feeding my fantasy, give me a kiss or three, have fun!
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NemesisNL
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:04:00 -
[119]
Edited by: NemesisNL on 23/07/2004 12:13:50
Edited by: NemesisNL on 23/07/2004 12:12:37
Quote:
And the Thorax can use MWD to close the gap rather fast plus despite a nerf to the dones bay it can still use uite a lot of drones.
and the MOA can fit MWD to stay at range...
Quote:
just dont listen to the morons complaining they cant fit 8 wasps/ogres and then put on 5 modal heavy neutrons.
why the name calling... |
NemesisNL
|
Posted - 2004.07.23 12:04:00 -
[120]
Edited by: NemesisNL on 23/07/2004 12:13:50
Edited by: NemesisNL on 23/07/2004 12:12:37
Quote:
And the Thorax can use MWD to close the gap rather fast plus despite a nerf to the dones bay it can still use uite a lot of drones.
and the MOA can fit MWD to stay at range...
Quote:
just dont listen to the morons complaining they cant fit 8 wasps/ogres and then put on 5 modal heavy neutrons.
why the name calling... |
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