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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:07:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 23/07/2004 12:09:18
First off, thanks for finally trying to make cruisers userful again!
In my opinion the rupture and moa both need turret damage bonuses in their respective turret types. The rupture has missles, but its not a missle boat, let those medium proj hit hard. And that extra shield boosting on a moa probably still wont' be enough to stop the massive damage output of a thorax.
I do like the armor resistance bonus on the maller, but I still think the maller needs a tiny bit of drone space and/or the option of using 1 launcher. I recommend giving it the same drone space as a moa.
The thorax drone nerf should be to 1500, not 1000. The thorax is a fine combat ship, but is mostly used for mining. Miners rely on drones for defense, don't take that away, or you will get ganked by a lot of angry carebears...
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:07:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 23/07/2004 12:09:18
First off, thanks for finally trying to make cruisers userful again!
In my opinion the rupture and moa both need turret damage bonuses in their respective turret types. The rupture has missles, but its not a missle boat, let those medium proj hit hard. And that extra shield boosting on a moa probably still wont' be enough to stop the massive damage output of a thorax.
I do like the armor resistance bonus on the maller, but I still think the maller needs a tiny bit of drone space and/or the option of using 1 launcher. I recommend giving it the same drone space as a moa.
The thorax drone nerf should be to 1500, not 1000. The thorax is a fine combat ship, but is mostly used for mining. Miners rely on drones for defense, don't take that away, or you will get ganked by a lot of angry carebears...
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Traderjohn
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:11:00 -
[123]
Like many people I use the thorax for a lot of solo mining. You can load it up with reactor controls and fit it with 5 mining lasers and have the best cruiser mining platform out there. Of course, you then rely on your drones for all of your defense. Now you want to cut my defense capabilities in half? That seems so drastic. Thorax miners are now supposed to go back to safe space or upgrade to a dominix?
Why a tracking bonus? I would rather keep the drone bay over any kind of extra bonus.
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Traderjohn
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:11:00 -
[124]
Like many people I use the thorax for a lot of solo mining. You can load it up with reactor controls and fit it with 5 mining lasers and have the best cruiser mining platform out there. Of course, you then rely on your drones for all of your defense. Now you want to cut my defense capabilities in half? That seems so drastic. Thorax miners are now supposed to go back to safe space or upgrade to a dominix?
Why a tracking bonus? I would rather keep the drone bay over any kind of extra bonus.
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Azur
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:18:00 -
[125]
I've got to admit I'd rather keep the Drone bay too. I'm not sure I understand why the Thorax loses half of it's drone bay and then has the Vexor overtake it as a drone carrying cruiser.
The whole point of the Rax is that it carries huge amount of drones. Maybe the drone changes will actually make Medium drones more useful. That's the only way I can see this working.
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Azur
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:18:00 -
[126]
I've got to admit I'd rather keep the Drone bay too. I'm not sure I understand why the Thorax loses half of it's drone bay and then has the Vexor overtake it as a drone carrying cruiser.
The whole point of the Rax is that it carries huge amount of drones. Maybe the drone changes will actually make Medium drones more useful. That's the only way I can see this working.
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Perry
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:18:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Perry on 23/07/2004 12:54:13
Overall fine changes, but here are my 2 cents:
The Auguror is still inferior due to only being able to fit 3 guns, while the other T1 cruisers have 4-5 weapons avaiable. On Top of that the Auguror has less cap and less powergrid than the Exequror, making the Exe a overall better Combat ship then the Auguror, which cant be right?!
edit: just checked armor values with lvl 5 skills, not bad, i think i withdraw my rant. 
The 5% rof bonus to Caracal looks evil... 
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Perry
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:18:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Perry on 23/07/2004 12:54:13
Overall fine changes, but here are my 2 cents:
The Auguror is still inferior due to only being able to fit 3 guns, while the other T1 cruisers have 4-5 weapons avaiable. On Top of that the Auguror has less cap and less powergrid than the Exequror, making the Exe a overall better Combat ship then the Auguror, which cant be right?!
edit: just checked armor values with lvl 5 skills, not bad, i think i withdraw my rant.
The 5% rof bonus to Caracal looks evil...
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:21:00 -
[129]
The maller bonus is nice, at lvl 5 thats 25% to EVERY armour risistance. now THAT is going to make a good armour tank.
Not sure I'm liking the Thorax's drone bay nerf, I mean, gallente = drones, maybe 1200? I also agree that an MWD bonus would be nice, maybe at lvl 5 it removes the shield/cap nerf of the MWD, thereby encouraging people to use Blaster setups as intended rather than long range railgun setups.
The Arbitrators Drone capabilities will be *almost* equal to the new best gallente drone cruiser, the vexor.
IMHO the vexor needs a 2k drone bay, the arb needs a +5% drone hitpoints or a +5% to drone bay size or something, the Vexor would definately be the better drone ship then.
Other than this, it really does achive 2 very nice goals:
1) crusiers are usefull in pvp again!
2) low end cruisers have some advantages to high end ones!
I also congratulate the devs on some very creative bonuses, rather than just '+5% dmg +5% tracking' on all gallente ships!
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:21:00 -
[130]
The maller bonus is nice, at lvl 5 thats 25% to EVERY armour risistance. now THAT is going to make a good armour tank.
Not sure I'm liking the Thorax's drone bay nerf, I mean, gallente = drones, maybe 1200? I also agree that an MWD bonus would be nice, maybe at lvl 5 it removes the shield/cap nerf of the MWD, thereby encouraging people to use Blaster setups as intended rather than long range railgun setups.
The Arbitrators Drone capabilities will be *almost* equal to the new best gallente drone cruiser, the vexor.
IMHO the vexor needs a 2k drone bay, the arb needs a +5% drone hitpoints or a +5% to drone bay size or something, the Vexor would definately be the better drone ship then.
Other than this, it really does achive 2 very nice goals:
1) crusiers are usefull in pvp again!
2) low end cruisers have some advantages to high end ones!
I also congratulate the devs on some very creative bonuses, rather than just '+5% dmg +5% tracking' on all gallente ships!
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Venril
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:22:00 -
[131]
a 1k drone bay on a thorax is entirely to small. it saids "hordes of combat drones" yet now it has a pitifully small drone bay. and a vexor now will probably beat a thorax in combat.
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Venril
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:22:00 -
[132]
a 1k drone bay on a thorax is entirely to small. it saids "hordes of combat drones" yet now it has a pitifully small drone bay. and a vexor now will probably beat a thorax in combat.
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Teutobod
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:25:00 -
[133]
 Originally by: sableye
Edited by: sableye on 23/07/2004 12:00:42
Originally by: Teutobod[:?
I would agree that if you wish to fit 5x250mm Railguns or 5x Heavy Neutron you'll have definataly have to use grid enhancers. But, there are other guns in the pond you know.
Electrons blasters are quite good and so are Ions.
Maybe try 5x 200mm railguns on for size?
snipped...
the carcal a level 2 cruiser can fit 5 heavy launchers (so full power offense) and has room spare to fit anything else you could want, it does'nt require and slots ot be taken up for power or cpu needs.
And the Thorax can outdamage the Caracal even tough it is not fitting 5x Neutrons.
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Teutobod
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:25:00 -
[134]
Originally by: sableye
Edited by: sableye on 23/07/2004 12:00:42
Originally by: Teutobod[:?
I would agree that if you wish to fit 5x250mm Railguns or 5x Heavy Neutron you'll have definataly have to use grid enhancers. But, there are other guns in the pond you know.
Electrons blasters are quite good and so are Ions.
Maybe try 5x 200mm railguns on for size?
snipped...
the carcal a level 2 cruiser can fit 5 heavy launchers (so full power offense) and has room spare to fit anything else you could want, it does'nt require and slots ot be taken up for power or cpu needs.
And the Thorax can outdamage the Caracal even tough it is not fitting 5x Neutrons.
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NemesisNL
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:27:00 -
[135]
the 1k drone bay on the thorax is not to bad the 5% tracking bonus we get in return just isnt enough to compensate for the loss. |
NemesisNL
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:27:00 -
[136]
the 1k drone bay on the thorax is not to bad the 5% tracking bonus we get in return just isnt enough to compensate for the loss. |
Starwolf
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:28:00 -
[137]
Not so good on the Thorax 
You took away it's main defensive capability, gave it a useless 5% tracking bonus per level and didn't increase it's CPU output. How the hell are we meant to use this ship in combat now....oh, it's ok, we can rename "wtfpwnd by every interceptor"
Get a grip CCP, stop making frigates/ceptors the ultimate ships in Eve.
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Starwolf
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:28:00 -
[138]
Not so good on the Thorax
You took away it's main defensive capability, gave it a useless 5% tracking bonus per level and didn't increase it's CPU output. How the hell are we meant to use this ship in combat now....oh, it's ok, we can rename "wtfpwnd by every interceptor"
Get a grip CCP, stop making frigates/ceptors the ultimate ships in Eve.
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sim2killa
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:34:00 -
[139]
Thorax should be very similar to a domninx only smaller.
Large drone bay maybe even a drone bonus.
Afterall if has less highs than most ships with only the ability to mount turrets.powergrid isnt very good either.
Sure its damaging IF YOU LIVE TO GET IN RANGE WITH YOUR BLASTERS.
Id rather have the thorax with 1 bonus than this new piece of crap :(
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sim2killa
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:34:00 -
[140]
Thorax should be very similar to a domninx only smaller.
Large drone bay maybe even a drone bonus.
Afterall if has less highs than most ships with only the ability to mount turrets.powergrid isnt very good either.
Sure its damaging IF YOU LIVE TO GET IN RANGE WITH YOUR BLASTERS.
Id rather have the thorax with 1 bonus than this new piece of crap :(
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Teutobod
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:34:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Starwolf
Not so good on the Thorax
You took away it's main defensive capability, gave it a useless 5% tracking bonus per level and didn't increase it's CPU output. How the hell are we meant to use this ship in combat now....oh, it's ok, we can rename "wtfpwnd by every interceptor"
Get a grip CCP, stop making frigates/ceptors the ultimate ships in Eve.
Blaster already ahve good tracking, and he smacks on a 20% bonus at Cruiser IV and you call it bad? Better tracking = more and better hits = more damage.
Not too shabby in my mind. Dronebaby might need to be on par with Vexor, but, let us see what he has up his sleaves regarding drones. Medium ones might become very usefull and heavy not the "be-all-end-all" that they are today.
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Teutobod
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:34:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Starwolf
Not so good on the Thorax
You took away it's main defensive capability, gave it a useless 5% tracking bonus per level and didn't increase it's CPU output. How the hell are we meant to use this ship in combat now....oh, it's ok, we can rename "wtfpwnd by every interceptor"
Get a grip CCP, stop making frigates/ceptors the ultimate ships in Eve.
Blaster already ahve good tracking, and he smacks on a 20% bonus at Cruiser IV and you call it bad? Better tracking = more and better hits = more damage.
Not too shabby in my mind. Dronebaby might need to be on par with Vexor, but, let us see what he has up his sleaves regarding drones. Medium ones might become very usefull and heavy not the "be-all-end-all" that they are today.
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starius3
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:35:00 -
[143]
the thorax 1000m3 is not good.. medium hybrids do so little damge against .4 security npc thats why i had all my drones for but now ya'll just take it away |
starius3
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:35:00 -
[144]
the thorax 1000m3 is not good.. medium hybrids do so little damge against .4 security npc thats why i had all my drones for but now ya'll just take it away |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:36:00 -
[145]
Wow, this is rather good news :D
One thing I'm concerned about, though, will the +% shieldboost, or +% armor resistances be affected by the StackNerf, when you fit actual shield boost or armour resistance equipment?
I'm not sure if that is the case already, if it isn't, pelase consider not applying the StackNerf to the bonusses 
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:36:00 -
[146]
Wow, this is rather good news :D
One thing I'm concerned about, though, will the +% shieldboost, or +% armor resistances be affected by the StackNerf, when you fit actual shield boost or armour resistance equipment?
I'm not sure if that is the case already, if it isn't, pelase consider not applying the StackNerf to the bonusses
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:38:00 -
[147]
Everybody knows why it had to be done to nerfe Thorax: Zombies and TDG sink BS in Thoraxes.
Ok, CCP: next ship is MOA...you¦ll see! Why don¦t you nerfe yourself and retire, sell the game code to cool people. A nerfe of 50% cannot be ok! It would mean that the Thorax was wrong 1 year but it was not! It¦s simply a direct pirate nerfe again (another direct reation on succesfull palyers like Zombies and TDG) and we will go through all ships, you¦ll see. CCP, you can already start to nerfe the Apoc because we will use 10 of them to instagank traffic. We wont even need warpscramblers or webber - only pure firepower.
CCP - it¦s not the game that has to be nerfed...most players are simply stupid or how can it be explained that we are able to sink BS with a Thorax and 4 standard frigs?
End yourself
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:38:00 -
[148]
Everybody knows why it had to be done to nerfe Thorax: Zombies and TDG sink BS in Thoraxes.
Ok, CCP: next ship is MOA...you¦ll see! Why don¦t you nerfe yourself and retire, sell the game code to cool people. A nerfe of 50% cannot be ok! It would mean that the Thorax was wrong 1 year but it was not! It¦s simply a direct pirate nerfe again (another direct reation on succesfull palyers like Zombies and TDG) and we will go through all ships, you¦ll see. CCP, you can already start to nerfe the Apoc because we will use 10 of them to instagank traffic. We wont even need warpscramblers or webber - only pure firepower.
CCP - it¦s not the game that has to be nerfed...most players are simply stupid or how can it be explained that we are able to sink BS with a Thorax and 4 standard frigs?
End yourself
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Seleene
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:38:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Seleene on 23/07/2004 12:39:35
I still think that the Thorax should not be nerfed to 1000 (maybe 1500), but other than I like what I see. I particuarly like the second bonus on the Blackbird...
/emote has research alt make a new copy of the Multispec Jammer BPO.
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
Seleene
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Posted - 2004.07.23 12:38:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Seleene on 23/07/2004 12:39:35
I still think that the Thorax should not be nerfed to 1000 (maybe 1500), but other than I like what I see. I particuarly like the second bonus on the Blackbird...
/emote has research alt make a new copy of the Multispec Jammer BPO.
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T2 Weapons Testing in progress! Volunteer today! |
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