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Armaki Kalear	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:06:00 - [181] Originally by: Perry The Auguror is still inferior due to only being able to fit 3 guns, while the other T1 cruisers have 4-5 weapons avaiable. On Top of that the Auguror has less cap and less powergrid than the Exequror, making the Exe a overall better Combat ship then the Auguror, which cant be right? I must say I agree, I think the Augoror will continue to be one of the least used cruisers with these proposed changes. Amongst the tier one cruisers it is getting the least interesting bonus. They all have 3 turret slots except the Exequror. The Osprey and Scythe are both getting 20% mining yield bonus. The Exequror is getting a really interesting cargo bonus. TomB, I just don't see what purpose you have in mind for the Augoror. The price and skill difference between it and either the Omen or Arbitrator doesn't justify it being a dedicated combat ship. I really want to avoid saying 'give it the mining bonus too' because that would be boring. What about giving it an extra high slot (not turret) and giving it a boost to cap regen or something... make it a support cruiser (for cap transfer or maybe shield) Everything else seems really creative, good work -- Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOÆs
Armaki Kalear	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:06:00 - [182] Originally by: Perry The Auguror is still inferior due to only being able to fit 3 guns, while the other T1 cruisers have 4-5 weapons avaiable. On Top of that the Auguror has less cap and less powergrid than the Exequror, making the Exe a overall better Combat ship then the Auguror, which cant be right? I must say I agree, I think the Augoror will continue to be one of the least used cruisers with these proposed changes. Amongst the tier one cruisers it is getting the least interesting bonus. They all have 3 turret slots except the Exequror. The Osprey and Scythe are both getting 20% mining yield bonus. The Exequror is getting a really interesting cargo bonus. TomB, I just don't see what purpose you have in mind for the Augoror. The price and skill difference between it and either the Omen or Arbitrator doesn't justify it being a dedicated combat ship. I really want to avoid saying 'give it the mining bonus too' because that would be boring. What about giving it an extra high slot (not turret) and giving it a boost to cap regen or something... make it a support cruiser (for cap transfer or maybe shield) Everything else seems really creative, good work -- Top 5 corporation improvements as requested by CEOÆs
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:13:00 - [183] A couple of suggestions. Bellicose is primarily a missile ship, as it has only 3 turret slots and not enough powergrid to mount the heavy howitzers. Give the Bellicose the 5% explosive missile damage bonus, and give the Rupture the 10% turret optimal range bonus. That way both cruisers will match their descriptions more closely. Also, I think the Bellicose's drone bay should be increased to 1000 cubic meters. This would make it more versatile, and more suited to it's combat role of "leading frigate wings" as stated in its description (i.e. protecting frigate wings).
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:13:00 - [184] A couple of suggestions. Bellicose is primarily a missile ship, as it has only 3 turret slots and not enough powergrid to mount the heavy howitzers. Give the Bellicose the 5% explosive missile damage bonus, and give the Rupture the 10% turret optimal range bonus. That way both cruisers will match their descriptions more closely. Also, I think the Bellicose's drone bay should be increased to 1000 cubic meters. This would make it more versatile, and more suited to it's combat role of "leading frigate wings" as stated in its description (i.e. protecting frigate wings).
Caldorous	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:20:00 - [185] I disagree with the thorax nerf, but if the things must be done, do it well: -Change the descriptions of the Ships: "The hordes of combat drones it carries allow it to strike against unwary opponents far away and to easily fight many opponents at the same time." Hordes of what? light drones for a cruiser is not a horde, and with 10 as max amount, u cant carry more drones that the ones in use so the description is wrong ----------------------------- 2005.03.13 01:11:29combatYour 350mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar), wrecking for 0.0 damage.
Caldorous	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:20:00 - [186] I disagree with the thorax nerf, but if the things must be done, do it well: -Change the descriptions of the Ships: "The hordes of combat drones it carries allow it to strike against unwary opponents far away and to easily fight many opponents at the same time." Hordes of what? light drones for a cruiser is not a horde, and with 10 as max amount, u cant carry more drones that the ones in use so the description is wrong ----------------------------- 2005.03.13 01:11:29combatYour 350mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar), wrecking for 0.0 damage.
splattercat	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:23:00 - [187] Love 99% of the changes...very well done CCP. 1% i dont like is the rax...i think a speed bounis or less cap use per lev for mwd/ab so the rax can close faster will be better. ( note i dont even fly a Rax so im not asking out of some need to keep my ship overpowered buti can see the need for speed)
splattercat	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:23:00 - [188] Love 99% of the changes...very well done CCP. 1% i dont like is the rax...i think a speed bounis or less cap use per lev for mwd/ab so the rax can close faster will be better. ( note i dont even fly a Rax so im not asking out of some need to keep my ship overpowered buti can see the need for speed)
Bohr	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:24:00 - [189] Originally by: slothe Originally by: Bohr And here I thought Gallente were supposed to be the miners. Just lost a lot of love for my ninjamining thorax :( personally (and having both) ive always preferred the vexor for mining, its more agile and now , like the dom is engineered for such. The thorax has always been a combat vessel , and now finally has that role. Vexor is no doubt gonna be a fine ship for ninjamining, with the drone upgrades. 4 lasers on a crok roid and 13 mining drones on a dark ochre or jaspet roid will do good. But still nothing the 3 mil more expensive cruiser could'nt do, better even.
Bohr	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:24:00 - [190] Originally by: slothe Originally by: Bohr And here I thought Gallente were supposed to be the miners. Just lost a lot of love for my ninjamining thorax :( personally (and having both) ive always preferred the vexor for mining, its more agile and now , like the dom is engineered for such. The thorax has always been a combat vessel , and now finally has that role. Vexor is no doubt gonna be a fine ship for ninjamining, with the drone upgrades. 4 lasers on a crok roid and 13 mining drones on a dark ochre or jaspet roid will do good. But still nothing the 3 mil more expensive cruiser could'nt do, better even.
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:25:00 - [191] I like my caldari cruisers, but I don't mount sheild boosters on my moas or use ECMs on my blackbirds. Caracal bounus looks nice though
Lao Tzu	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:25:00 - [192] I like my caldari cruisers, but I don't mount sheild boosters on my moas or use ECMs on my blackbirds. Caracal bounus looks nice though
Asfa	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:28:00 - [193] Originally by: Mechkilla Originally by: sim2killa Thorax should be very similar to a domninx only smaller. Large drone bay maybe even a drone bonus. ... No, think it is more like that: Thorax = Megathron Light Dominix = Vexor Deluxe I agree that this should be the line up. Does mean that the Thorax should probably have a single launcher hardpoint though. Currently the Thorax has very little defense against missles - a smartbomb simply isn't much help if you plan on using any drones.
Asfa	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:28:00 - [194] Originally by: Mechkilla Originally by: sim2killa Thorax should be very similar to a domninx only smaller. Large drone bay maybe even a drone bonus. ... No, think it is more like that: Thorax = Megathron Light Dominix = Vexor Deluxe I agree that this should be the line up. Does mean that the Thorax should probably have a single launcher hardpoint though. Currently the Thorax has very little defense against missles - a smartbomb simply isn't much help if you plan on using any drones.
Chrome Born	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:28:00 - [195] Being a Gallente solo pilot, I have to dissagree with the Thorax changes, no I dont care that I wont be able to carry 10 Heavy's (or whatever the Thorax fits in its drone bay). I currently use a Dom for low sec to 0.0 mining so the change will actually not affect me personally, my concern with the changes is more for the new players looking to venture out and make enough isk for thier firs BS. My main concern is not being able to use it as a viable low sec miner, currently if you are in below .5 even .5, in a cruiser you will struggle to survive a heavy spawn without guns to back up your drones thats with using heavy drones..... Are you trying to force grouping like every other mmporg seems to be doing, I for one hope not. I understand you will be giving the drones a lil luvin, so will obviously wait to see what happens there. Last objection to the lowering of the drone bay size is mining drones, yet again with 8-10 mining drones you will be left with next to no defense with drones. I hope the above is constructive rather than a rant. Chrome Born. P.S. Maybe not the right forum to ask on but any plans to give us more control over what drones we launch ? Currently its a bit hit and miss if you can select the right drones at the right time ie: drag in the miners and loose scouts, This will obviously become even more awkward if the drones are segragated into roles ie small for frigs, medium cruisers, heavy's BS defence/offence.
Chrome Born	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:28:00 - [196] Being a Gallente solo pilot, I have to dissagree with the Thorax changes, no I dont care that I wont be able to carry 10 Heavy's (or whatever the Thorax fits in its drone bay). I currently use a Dom for low sec to 0.0 mining so the change will actually not affect me personally, my concern with the changes is more for the new players looking to venture out and make enough isk for thier firs BS. My main concern is not being able to use it as a viable low sec miner, currently if you are in below .5 even .5, in a cruiser you will struggle to survive a heavy spawn without guns to back up your drones thats with using heavy drones..... Are you trying to force grouping like every other mmporg seems to be doing, I for one hope not. I understand you will be giving the drones a lil luvin, so will obviously wait to see what happens there. Last objection to the lowering of the drone bay size is mining drones, yet again with 8-10 mining drones you will be left with next to no defense with drones. I hope the above is constructive rather than a rant. Chrome Born. P.S. Maybe not the right forum to ask on but any plans to give us more control over what drones we launch ? Currently its a bit hit and miss if you can select the right drones at the right time ie: drag in the miners and loose scouts, This will obviously become even more awkward if the drones are segragated into roles ie small for frigs, medium cruisers, heavy's BS defence/offence.
Helmut 314	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:31:00 - [197] Im very happy about these suggested cruiser upgrades. The cruisers will be much more useable and fun when this goes through (tomorrow, please ?). To those who complain about the Thorax changes, well no top cruiser can fit 5 of the heaviest medium weapons without RCU:s or PDU:s. The thorax CAN fit 5 big turrets and has a big drone bay too, that isnt bad even after the change. Maller for instance can fit 5 turrets too, but has no drone bay. Arbitrators are really going to be quite useful now, since they always have depended on drones to do decent damage. An Arbitrator has 2 turrets and 1 launcher slot, which means that its very dependent on the drones to do good damage. The drone bay is a reasonable size for the new bonus, 15 hammerheads will fit nicely and give the arbitrator a decent damage output even when drones are tuned. So dont complain, just embrace the new goodness :) ___________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Helmut 314	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:31:00 - [198] Im very happy about these suggested cruiser upgrades. The cruisers will be much more useable and fun when this goes through (tomorrow, please ?). To those who complain about the Thorax changes, well no top cruiser can fit 5 of the heaviest medium weapons without RCU:s or PDU:s. The thorax CAN fit 5 big turrets and has a big drone bay too, that isnt bad even after the change. Maller for instance can fit 5 turrets too, but has no drone bay. Arbitrators are really going to be quite useful now, since they always have depended on drones to do decent damage. An Arbitrator has 2 turrets and 1 launcher slot, which means that its very dependent on the drones to do good damage. The drone bay is a reasonable size for the new bonus, 15 hammerheads will fit nicely and give the arbitrator a decent damage output even when drones are tuned. So dont complain, just embrace the new goodness :) ___________________________________ Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson
Ukiah	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:31:00 - [199] Quote: Celestis Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level. Addon: 10% bonus to Hybrid Optimal Range per level. Instant hard on, this is my favorite Cruiser. It's a Moa light. Quote: Maller Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level Addon: 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level Yeah, this'll go live I can hear the screaming now. I think it's a GREAT change, but every NON Maller pilot will scream for a nerf. Quote: Exequror Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level. Addon: 10% bonus to Cargo Capacity per level. Boost: Cargo Capacity increased from 425.0 to 600.0 Brilliant, you're starting to 'differentiate' the gallente cruisers some now. Instead of a 'treadmill' they'll each have a 'role'. Quote: Vexor Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level. Addon: +1 extra Drone controlled per level Boost: dronebay from 1200 to 1800 More of the same. Good deal. I've always thought the Vexxor was an overlooked ship. Quote: Thorax Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level. Addon: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking per level. Nerf: take drone bay from 2000 to 1000 Comment: still the most destructive cruiser out there You just jumped the shark on me there, TomB. No need for this. Yes, it is a VERY powerful cruiser. Why don't we see how the other changes to the other cruisers fit BEFORE we start nerfing things.
Ukiah	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:31:00 - [200] Quote: Celestis Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level. Addon: 10% bonus to Hybrid Optimal Range per level. Instant hard on, this is my favorite Cruiser. It's a Moa light. Quote: Maller Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level Addon: 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level Yeah, this'll go live I can hear the screaming now. I think it's a GREAT change, but every NON Maller pilot will scream for a nerf. Quote: Exequror Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level. Addon: 10% bonus to Cargo Capacity per level. Boost: Cargo Capacity increased from 425.0 to 600.0 Brilliant, you're starting to 'differentiate' the gallente cruisers some now. Instead of a 'treadmill' they'll each have a 'role'. Quote: Vexor Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level. Addon: +1 extra Drone controlled per level Boost: dronebay from 1200 to 1800 More of the same. Good deal. I've always thought the Vexxor was an overlooked ship. Quote: Thorax Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level. Addon: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking per level. Nerf: take drone bay from 2000 to 1000 Comment: still the most destructive cruiser out there You just jumped the shark on me there, TomB. No need for this. Yes, it is a VERY powerful cruiser. Why don't we see how the other changes to the other cruisers fit BEFORE we start nerfing things.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:33:00 - [201] Originally by: TomB Currently on Entropy we are testing 2nd bonuses addon to cruisers and minor changes to current balance on them, feel free to test these out as much as you want/can and give feedback. Please note that anything posted below might change, also various others stats or descriptions of the ships: Amarr Augoror Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level Addon: 10% bonus to max armor hitpoints per level I gotta get me one of those. They look gorgeous. Nice bonus. Quote: Omen Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level Addon: 5% bonus to Armor Repairer output per level I'm not convinced that the Omen will ever have a purpose in PvP unless you can give it a bit more agility. Make it more of a ninja strike ship and perhaps it would be good. Quote: Maller Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level Addon: 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level I think that could make the Maller quite handy in a battle. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:33:00 - [202] Originally by: TomB Currently on Entropy we are testing 2nd bonuses addon to cruisers and minor changes to current balance on them, feel free to test these out as much as you want/can and give feedback. Please note that anything posted below might change, also various others stats or descriptions of the ships: Amarr Augoror Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level Addon: 10% bonus to max armor hitpoints per level I gotta get me one of those. They look gorgeous. Nice bonus. Quote: Omen Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level Addon: 5% bonus to Armor Repairer output per level I'm not convinced that the Omen will ever have a purpose in PvP unless you can give it a bit more agility. Make it more of a ninja strike ship and perhaps it would be good. Quote: Maller Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level Addon: 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level I think that could make the Maller quite handy in a battle. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Nieda	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:35:00 - [203] TomB, I hope Rupture will get this gun range bonus instead of explosive missle bonus, its our gunboat after all and it should be specialized this way. Lets take a look at Scythe and Bellicose. Both cruisers can mount 3 Turrets, Scythe hast drone cargo for 1 harvester, Belli has cargo for 7 and a small drone as well. Assuming Minmatar Cruiser skill is at lvl4, Scythe gets 80% bonus per turret. Is this better than Belli with 3 "normal" turrets and 6 harvesters more ? I dont think so. Some math, not taking skills into mind. 1 Harvester = 30 mining amount; 6 harv + 1 small = 195 units advantage for Bellicose. 1 Miner II = 60 mining amount; 80% of 60 = 48; 3x 48 = 144 units advantage for Scythe. 195 - 148 = 47 units total advantage for Bellicose. So why use Scythe ? --------------------------------------------- 2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage.
Nieda	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:35:00 - [204] TomB, I hope Rupture will get this gun range bonus instead of explosive missle bonus, its our gunboat after all and it should be specialized this way. Lets take a look at Scythe and Bellicose. Both cruisers can mount 3 Turrets, Scythe hast drone cargo for 1 harvester, Belli has cargo for 7 and a small drone as well. Assuming Minmatar Cruiser skill is at lvl4, Scythe gets 80% bonus per turret. Is this better than Belli with 3 "normal" turrets and 6 harvesters more ? I dont think so. Some math, not taking skills into mind. 1 Harvester = 30 mining amount; 6 harv + 1 small = 195 units advantage for Bellicose. 1 Miner II = 60 mining amount; 80% of 60 = 48; 3x 48 = 144 units advantage for Scythe. 195 - 148 = 47 units total advantage for Bellicose. So why use Scythe ? --------------------------------------------- 2004.08.12 14:50:32combatYour 720mm Carbine Howitzer I perfectly strikes Guristas Destructor, wrecking for 543.9 damage.
corporal hicks	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:37:00 - [205] Just wondering but are these updates going to apply to the Guardian vexor? " Stay Frosty "
corporal hicks	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:37:00 - [206] Just wondering but are these updates going to apply to the Guardian vexor? " Stay Frosty "
Altai Saker	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:39:00 - [207] Edited by: Altai Saker on 23/07/2004 13:42:19 Vexor needs even bigger dronebay or the +1 drone control will be wasted on most people. What on earth do you mean cut down on its combat power, the need to get within 10km AND UNDER TO HIT AT ALL FOR ANY DAMAGE already fills that role. Quit making it out like the thorax is some kind of uber ship, it isn't. All anyone has to do is keep range and you win.
Altai Saker	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:39:00 - [208] Edited by: Altai Saker on 23/07/2004 13:42:19 Vexor needs even bigger dronebay or the +1 drone control will be wasted on most people. What on earth do you mean cut down on its combat power, the need to get within 10km AND UNDER TO HIT AT ALL FOR ANY DAMAGE already fills that role. Quit making it out like the thorax is some kind of uber ship, it isn't. All anyone has to do is keep range and you win.
Severus Trajan	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:39:00 - [209] Originally by: Azur I've got to admit I'd rather keep the Drone bay too. The description of the Thorax does indeed seem to suggest that it relies heavily on drones. Perhaps removing a turret would be another reasonable action to cut down on the Thorax' combat power somewhat, compared to other cruisers.
Severus Trajan	Posted - 2004.07.23 13:39:00 - [210] Originally by: Azur I've got to admit I'd rather keep the Drone bay too. The description of the Thorax does indeed seem to suggest that it relies heavily on drones. Perhaps removing a turret would be another reasonable action to cut down on the Thorax' combat power somewhat, compared to other cruisers.

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