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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:45:00 -
[211]
Hey I LOVE the maller upgrade, can you guys also think about giving it a slight PG boost, like 100 or even less, just a bit more please!
................. |
Cruz
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:45:00 -
[212]
Hey I LOVE the maller upgrade, can you guys also think about giving it a slight PG boost, like 100 or even less, just a bit more please!
................. |
TomB
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:47:00 -
[213]
TESTS MOVED TO CHAOS
2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything. |
TomB
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:47:00 -
[214]
TESTS MOVED TO CHAOS
2004.07.06 19:30:45combatTomB strikes you critically with his Nerf Bat, pwning you for -100% everything. |
Ukiah
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:47:00 -
[215]
Oh, I freaking LOVE the Maller change. It makes the maller a viable pvp ship now. You could tank the bejeezus outta it now.
I started Gallente but trained Amarr interceptors.... I was planning on training Gallente cruisers to 5, but if this chave goes thru, I'll continue training Amarr ships all the way up....
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Ukiah
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:47:00 -
[216]
Oh, I freaking LOVE the Maller change. It makes the maller a viable pvp ship now. You could tank the bejeezus outta it now.
I started Gallente but trained Amarr interceptors.... I was planning on training Gallente cruisers to 5, but if this chave goes thru, I'll continue training Amarr ships all the way up....
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:49:00 -
[217]
 Originally by: Nieda
TomB,
I hope Rupture will get this gun range bonus instead of explosive missle bonus, its our gunboat after all and it should be specialized this way.
Lets take a look at Scythe and Bellicose. Both cruisers can mount 3 Turrets, Scythe hast drone cargo for 1 harvester, Belli has cargo for 7 and a small drone as well. Assuming Minmatar Cruiser skill is at lvl4, Scythe gets 80% bonus per turret.
Is this better than Belli with 3 "normal" turrets and 6 harvesters more ? I dont think so. Some math, not taking skills into mind.
1 Harvester = 30 mining amount; 6 harv + 1 small = 195 units advantage for Bellicose.
1 Miner II = 60 mining amount; 80% of 60 = 48; 3x 48 = 144 units advantage for Scythe.
195 - 148 = 47 units total advantage for Bellicose.
So why use Scythe ?
Harvesters 1-2 million isk a piece and easy to lose if there's any kind of rat in the belt.
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Valentine Keen
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:49:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Nieda
TomB,
I hope Rupture will get this gun range bonus instead of explosive missle bonus, its our gunboat after all and it should be specialized this way.
Lets take a look at Scythe and Bellicose. Both cruisers can mount 3 Turrets, Scythe hast drone cargo for 1 harvester, Belli has cargo for 7 and a small drone as well. Assuming Minmatar Cruiser skill is at lvl4, Scythe gets 80% bonus per turret.
Is this better than Belli with 3 "normal" turrets and 6 harvesters more ? I dont think so. Some math, not taking skills into mind.
1 Harvester = 30 mining amount; 6 harv + 1 small = 195 units advantage for Bellicose.
1 Miner II = 60 mining amount; 80% of 60 = 48; 3x 48 = 144 units advantage for Scythe.
195 - 148 = 47 units total advantage for Bellicose.
So why use Scythe ?
Harvesters 1-2 million isk a piece and easy to lose if there's any kind of rat in the belt.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:50:00 -
[219]
Like most of the changes with one exception.
Rupture addon bonus is not very impressive.
Give it rof/dmg like the tempest.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:50:00 -
[220]
Like most of the changes with one exception.
Rupture addon bonus is not very impressive.
Give it rof/dmg like the tempest.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:52:00 -
[221]
First off, nice creative work TomB, i do have some tweaking ideas and questions :P
Originally by: TomB
Amarr
Augoror
Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level
Addon: 10% bonus to max armor hitpoints per level
Will that bonus only apply to base armor, or to plates too?
Originally by: TomB
Omen
Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level
Addon: 5% bonus to Armor Repairer output per level
Maller
Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level
Addon: 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level
Maybe that's the love the maller needed, omen bonus is really nice too.
Originally by: TomB
Caldari
Moa
Existing: 10% bonus to Hybrid Turret optimal range per level
Addon: 5% bonus to shield boosting per level
What about a 5% shield capacity bonus? (like the scorpion)
Originally by: TomB
Gallente
Thorax
Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level.
Addon: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking per level.
Nerf: take drone bay from 2000 to 1000
Comment: still the most destructive cruiser out there
Think a mwd or agility bonus would be better, tracking doesn't seem an issue on cruiser level.
Originally by: TomB
Minmatar
Rupture
Existing: 5% bonus to Projectile Turret firing speed per level
Addon: 5% bonus to explosive damage missiles per level
I dunno, but i do think that bonus does only really help in for one out of 10 setups.
I'd personally prefer a 5% rof bonus, next to the 5% dmg bonus, just like the tempest.
Dunno if that makes the rupture to versatile tough.
Anyway looking forward to test this a bit more on entropy.... just had a 3on3 in cruiser, great fun :)
And a general idea, you might want to look at total hp of cruiser, i do think a 20-50% increase in total hp wouldn't hurt anyone.... |
Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:52:00 -
[222]
First off, nice creative work TomB, i do have some tweaking ideas and questions :P
Originally by: TomB
Amarr
Augoror
Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level
Addon: 10% bonus to max armor hitpoints per level
Will that bonus only apply to base armor, or to plates too?
Originally by: TomB
Omen
Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level
Addon: 5% bonus to Armor Repairer output per level
Maller
Existing: 10% bonus to Energy Turret capacitor use per level
Addon: 5% bonus to all armor resistances per level
Maybe that's the love the maller needed, omen bonus is really nice too.
Originally by: TomB
Caldari
Moa
Existing: 10% bonus to Hybrid Turret optimal range per level
Addon: 5% bonus to shield boosting per level
What about a 5% shield capacity bonus? (like the scorpion)
Originally by: TomB
Gallente
Thorax
Existing: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret damage per level.
Addon: 5% bonus to Hybrid Turret tracking per level.
Nerf: take drone bay from 2000 to 1000
Comment: still the most destructive cruiser out there
Think a mwd or agility bonus would be better, tracking doesn't seem an issue on cruiser level.
Originally by: TomB
Minmatar
Rupture
Existing: 5% bonus to Projectile Turret firing speed per level
Addon: 5% bonus to explosive damage missiles per level
I dunno, but i do think that bonus does only really help in for one out of 10 setups.
I'd personally prefer a 5% rof bonus, next to the 5% dmg bonus, just like the tempest.
Dunno if that makes the rupture to versatile tough.
Anyway looking forward to test this a bit more on entropy.... just had a 3on3 in cruiser, great fun :)
And a general idea, you might want to look at total hp of cruiser, i do think a 20-50% increase in total hp wouldn't hurt anyone.... |
NemesisNL
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:52:00 -
[223]
i know you cant 5 of the best medium guns without using pdu/rcu but if you want to fit a thorax with 5 250mm then you need to fit 4 or 5 rcu depending on skills to be able to fit anything else but the 250mm.
if you want to fit for example the MOA with 4x 250mm and 2x heavy launcher you dont need as much grid so les grid boosters needed.
the reduction in drone bay i can live with but the rax just needs more in return then just the 5% tracking bonus.
btw what ever happend to the planned grid reduction for turrets ? |
NemesisNL
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:52:00 -
[224]
i know you cant 5 of the best medium guns without using pdu/rcu but if you want to fit a thorax with 5 250mm then you need to fit 4 or 5 rcu depending on skills to be able to fit anything else but the 250mm.
if you want to fit for example the MOA with 4x 250mm and 2x heavy launcher you dont need as much grid so les grid boosters needed.
the reduction in drone bay i can live with but the rax just needs more in return then just the 5% tracking bonus.
btw what ever happend to the planned grid reduction for turrets ? |
John Bishop
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:54:00 -
[225]
i like most of these changes, and i belive the moa needs a damage for its turrets maybey 5%- 10% better damage per level? im not good with math so i dont know what would be too much, but enough to offset the damge of a thorax.
not to over power the moa but to give it equal standing.
the maller needs some love to a powgrid bonus would be nice.
i also agree that all cruisers should be beefed up 10%-15% more hit points than current.
a lone cruiser should waorry bout one or two friagtes, but a horder should be able to kill a cruiser, also the extra hit points would give cruisers a chance to make a stand in groupes agaisnt battlships, or at least time to escape if lucky
_______________________________________________
sorry for the spelling and gramtic errors,,, im a redneck cowboy what did you expect anyways????
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John Bishop
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Posted - 2004.07.23 13:54:00 -
[226]
i like most of these changes, and i belive the moa needs a damage for its turrets maybey 5%- 10% better damage per level? im not good with math so i dont know what would be too much, but enough to offset the damge of a thorax.
not to over power the moa but to give it equal standing.
the maller needs some love to a powgrid bonus would be nice.
i also agree that all cruisers should be beefed up 10%-15% more hit points than current.
a lone cruiser should waorry bout one or two friagtes, but a horder should be able to kill a cruiser, also the extra hit points would give cruisers a chance to make a stand in groupes agaisnt battlships, or at least time to escape if lucky
_______________________________________________
sorry for the spelling and gramtic errors,,, im a redneck cowboy what did you expect anyways????
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Dirtball
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:16:00 -
[227]
I think cruisers should take less time to enter warp, I don't know for sure but it seems as though a maller takes just as long or longer to enter warp as a scorpion.
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Dirtball
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:16:00 -
[228]
I think cruisers should take less time to enter warp, I don't know for sure but it seems as though a maller takes just as long or longer to enter warp as a scorpion.
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Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:16:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Eyeshadow on 23/07/2004 14:19:21
Edited by: Eyeshadow on 23/07/2004 14:18:30
i would love a 5%dmg bonus per level to the moa, but it would just wtfpwn any cruiser and give some tier1 BS a run for theyre money (as the thorax does now)
the reason is with a set of 250 proto gauss on my moa, with a tech2 dmg mod, medium hydrid at lvl4, surgical strike at lvl4 i get a dmg mod of just shy of 5. if u add 20% for cruiser 4 aswell it would then be over 6!! i use anti-matter at 40k range atm and get hits over 100 consistently in armour/structure and find cruisers quite easy to take out, usually about 5/6 salvos from all 4 weapons
this is not taking into account the heavy launchers i have aswell. so as u can see, a dmg bonus to medium hybrid to moa would seriously unbalance things (not that i would complain if it happened)
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Eyeshadow
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:16:00 -
[230]
Edited by: Eyeshadow on 23/07/2004 14:19:21
Edited by: Eyeshadow on 23/07/2004 14:18:30
i would love a 5%dmg bonus per level to the moa, but it would just wtfpwn any cruiser and give some tier1 BS a run for theyre money (as the thorax does now)
the reason is with a set of 250 proto gauss on my moa, with a tech2 dmg mod, medium hydrid at lvl4, surgical strike at lvl4 i get a dmg mod of just shy of 5. if u add 20% for cruiser 4 aswell it would then be over 6!! i use anti-matter at 40k range atm and get hits over 100 consistently in armour/structure and find cruisers quite easy to take out, usually about 5/6 salvos from all 4 weapons
this is not taking into account the heavy launchers i have aswell. so as u can see, a dmg bonus to medium hybrid to moa would seriously unbalance things (not that i would complain if it happened)
Forums: Sharks - MC |
Mned Graydroggen
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:20:00 -
[231]
Love what you have planned for the Gallente ships. Especialy the execuror will now live up to its descrition. I think it will get a second live as agent running cruiser with these changes
keep it up
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Mned Graydroggen
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:20:00 -
[232]
Love what you have planned for the Gallente ships. Especialy the execuror will now live up to its descrition. I think it will get a second live as agent running cruiser with these changes
keep it up
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:24:00 -
[233]
The Thorax just lost most of its ability to fight while jammed.
How about switching that worthless tracking bonus for +2 magnetometric sensor strength per level?
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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RollinDutchMasters
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:24:00 -
[234]
The Thorax just lost most of its ability to fight while jammed.
How about switching that worthless tracking bonus for +2 magnetometric sensor strength per level?
Originally by: Sochin
CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
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Ebedar
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:26:00 -
[235]
Like a lot of people I saw the intended nerf to the Thorax's drone bay and my immediate reaction was to shout, "NO!" Having calmed down, I can see the necessity for a nerf (to some extent) but I think - as do many others - that the second bonus needs replacing with something more viable.
My thoughts about drones are that the devs intend to make them ship class specific (this is pure opinion, not based on anything they have said). So we would see drones becoming like missiles, somewhat: frigs could only use lights, cruisers only lights and meds, BS could use all 3 types. That's pure conjecture on my part but it seems to me that the way is being paved to make lower classes of drone more used on higher end ships and that they are being remodelled to suit such purposes. That drones still need balancing is a related but separate issue (not least because of the missing medium drones...)
Moving on to the current changes intended, I would personally like to see the Rax have around 1500 drone space and a boost to speed as its second bonus. This would allow the ship to get into range quicker, hopefully helping to compensate for the reduction in damage output (bearing in mind that I've seen Raxes used to take down BS - with hard work and skill - and they need their own drones not only to give out damage but also to take out any drones the BS may have on board...)
Alternatively, keep the drone space at 1000 (/me shudders at having uttered such horrible words) or increase it slightly and make the second bonus a boost to drone damage. This could either be to all drones doing one type of damage or to all drones of one class (specifically, med drones - given what I think will happen to drones in the future).
My life in pictures:
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Ebedar
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:26:00 -
[236]
Like a lot of people I saw the intended nerf to the Thorax's drone bay and my immediate reaction was to shout, "NO!" Having calmed down, I can see the necessity for a nerf (to some extent) but I think - as do many others - that the second bonus needs replacing with something more viable.
My thoughts about drones are that the devs intend to make them ship class specific (this is pure opinion, not based on anything they have said). So we would see drones becoming like missiles, somewhat: frigs could only use lights, cruisers only lights and meds, BS could use all 3 types. That's pure conjecture on my part but it seems to me that the way is being paved to make lower classes of drone more used on higher end ships and that they are being remodelled to suit such purposes. That drones still need balancing is a related but separate issue (not least because of the missing medium drones...)
Moving on to the current changes intended, I would personally like to see the Rax have around 1500 drone space and a boost to speed as its second bonus. This would allow the ship to get into range quicker, hopefully helping to compensate for the reduction in damage output (bearing in mind that I've seen Raxes used to take down BS - with hard work and skill - and they need their own drones not only to give out damage but also to take out any drones the BS may have on board...)
Alternatively, keep the drone space at 1000 (/me shudders at having uttered such horrible words) or increase it slightly and make the second bonus a boost to drone damage. This could either be to all drones doing one type of damage or to all drones of one class (specifically, med drones - given what I think will happen to drones in the future).
My life in pictures:
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:29:00 -
[237]
You preempted me. :)
I was going to do a write-up on cruisers since cruiser balancing was supposed to be coming up.
Amarr: I like all the Amarr bonuses, very good. The only thing I would add is a small drone bay for the Maller. Of 16 cruisrs only 2 don't have any drones. The Caldari dislike drones so the Blackbirds lack makes sense but why no drones for the Maller?
Caldari: perfect as they are, the Moa doesn't need to be a missile boat the Caracal fills that role. Moa's tanking and shooting backed by Caracals firing missile barrages with Blackbird EW support, excellent combined arms force.
Gallante: I agree that the Thorax was overpowered, that many drones plus 5 blasters was too much. Moving the drones to the Vexor makes it more than just the Thorax's little brother. I think maybe just a straight switch in drone bay might work, 2000 for the Vexor and 1200 for the Thorax. Gallente are the drone masters, the Vexor should be significantly better than the Arbitrator (and the Arbitrator is good as is).
Minmatar: As several have already mentioned the Bellicose is much more a missile ship than a gun ship. Switching the bonuses for the Bellicose and Rupture would be good. Scythe and Stabber bonuses are good. One other thing, the Minmatar BS and frigates have the second largest drone bays after the Gallente but in cruisers they don't even match the smallest Gallente cruiser. The probe's 150 drone bay is bigger than any non-gallente frigate, the Typhoon's drone bay is bigger than all but the Dom's. Boost the Bellicose to 1000 so its better than the 800 on the Exequror and Celestis?
PS: I was also going to suggest adding slots to most of the cruisers.
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:29:00 -
[238]
You preempted me. :)
I was going to do a write-up on cruisers since cruiser balancing was supposed to be coming up.
Amarr: I like all the Amarr bonuses, very good. The only thing I would add is a small drone bay for the Maller. Of 16 cruisrs only 2 don't have any drones. The Caldari dislike drones so the Blackbirds lack makes sense but why no drones for the Maller?
Caldari: perfect as they are, the Moa doesn't need to be a missile boat the Caracal fills that role. Moa's tanking and shooting backed by Caracals firing missile barrages with Blackbird EW support, excellent combined arms force.
Gallante: I agree that the Thorax was overpowered, that many drones plus 5 blasters was too much. Moving the drones to the Vexor makes it more than just the Thorax's little brother. I think maybe just a straight switch in drone bay might work, 2000 for the Vexor and 1200 for the Thorax. Gallente are the drone masters, the Vexor should be significantly better than the Arbitrator (and the Arbitrator is good as is).
Minmatar: As several have already mentioned the Bellicose is much more a missile ship than a gun ship. Switching the bonuses for the Bellicose and Rupture would be good. Scythe and Stabber bonuses are good. One other thing, the Minmatar BS and frigates have the second largest drone bays after the Gallente but in cruisers they don't even match the smallest Gallente cruiser. The probe's 150 drone bay is bigger than any non-gallente frigate, the Typhoon's drone bay is bigger than all but the Dom's. Boost the Bellicose to 1000 so its better than the 800 on the Exequror and Celestis?
PS: I was also going to suggest adding slots to most of the cruisers.
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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:30:00 -
[239]
Amarr - all these bonuses are great, makes the ships fit a role. I love the bonuses for the Arbi and maller.
Caldari - Again each has a role. great work.
Gallente - Nice mainly, but the celistis seems a little left out.
Minmatar - I dont know, none of these bonuses really seemas exciting as the other races. The stabber & Scythe are nice but the Rupture and Bellicose bonuses just dont sound as exciting as the other changes.
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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2004.07.23 14:30:00 -
[240]
Amarr - all these bonuses are great, makes the ships fit a role. I love the bonuses for the Arbi and maller.
Caldari - Again each has a role. great work.
Gallente - Nice mainly, but the celistis seems a little left out.
Minmatar - I dont know, none of these bonuses really seemas exciting as the other races. The stabber & Scythe are nice but the Rupture and Bellicose bonuses just dont sound as exciting as the other changes.
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