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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.25 13:48:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Sweetness Sideways
ShaderTesterTool
Mobile Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset Family Shader model 1.1 : yes Shader model 1.2 : yes Shader model 1.3 : yes Shader model 1.4 : yes Shader model 2.0 : yes Shader model 2 A : no Shader model 2 B : no Shader model 2 (software): no Shader model 3.0 : no
This is what I got. I assume that this means that I will not need to upgrade? Well at least I can log in and change skills considering that my laptop struggles with classic at this point.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
Kalith Steiner
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Posted - 2009.01.25 14:37:00 -
[302]
well, good to hear that you will at least in 2009 support SM2.0. I honestly hope 2010 will bring the same support!
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YaSiS
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:54:00 -
[303]
sm2.0 is gettin old its from 2002 and we are now at 2009.. people have to upgrade serously.
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Andresky
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.25 19:07:00 -
[304]
Originally by: YaSiS sm2.0 is gettin old its from 2002 and we are now at 2009.. people have to upgrade serously.
hehe, if you pay the upgrade? ;) why not?
@ CCP: do we have to expect a framerate loss with the move from classic to premium lite?
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Gavri'el
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Posted - 2009.01.25 21:04:00 -
[305]
Maybe I'm late... but what about Linux users? I struggled quite a few weeks to get this thing to work... my card is supported with sm3, but will Linux work? |
Komaito
Damage over Time The Second Genesis
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Posted - 2009.01.26 05:50:00 -
[306]
Oh well, its still some time till winter 2009.
But most probably I won't upgrade my system for of Eve then.
My computer is still good enough for the usual stuff, and upgrade just because of Eve? Really not sure about that, I rather stop playing. ------------------------------------ radiation... too much radiation... |
Gargamell Smurf
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Posted - 2009.01.26 06:18:00 -
[307]
Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 26/01/2009 06:25:32 Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 26/01/2009 06:23:40 Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 26/01/2009 06:20:57
Originally by: CCP Step 2: In the Winter Expansion 2009 we are -considering- discontinuing support for ShaderModel 2 and make the minimum specification ShaderModel 3(GeForce 6 class cards or ATi x1300 or compatible)
then everyone screamed on the forum.
Originally by: CCP We will however -not- pursue going to ShaderModel 3 as a minimum, at least for now. It's quite apparent that while an overwhelming majority has no problems with moving to ShaderModel 2, there are still quite a few (mostly laptop) users out there that cannot support ShaderModel 3 yet. We're going to continue monitoring hardware trends closely and will revise our plan on a regular basis.
So: They are NOT going with SM3. OK? Everyone get that?
Originally by: Andresky
@ CCP: do we have to expect a framerate loss with the move from classic to premium lite?
This is the real question. If the "downsampling" of SM2 "lite" does not match the performance of the current Classic client, then there is not much benefit to anyone. I EXPECT performance, NOT graphics. We will see. |
Varaxian
Amarr Corp 1 Allstars PuPPet MasTers
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Posted - 2009.01.26 07:26:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Ma'kal Edited by: Ma''kal on 19/01/2009 18:18:04 I was just wondering if the premium graphics client would require ShaderModel 3? If it did it would be awesome because who doesn't like shiny
....pvp'rs
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Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.01.26 10:52:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Lianti The only thing I'm really worried about now (have a SM 2.0 laptop), is the performance and visual quality of the low end graphics that will feature in the 'Lite' client. If you're just downscaling textures/meshes (and maybe even normal maps) you're likely going to end up with a far worse looking solution than the models and textures used in the Classic client, maybe even ending up with worse performance with the added shader effects.
SM3 and SM 2 differences are completely unrelated to texture and model sizes
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Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.01.26 12:31:00 -
[310]
The thing about eve is that a good many older players like myself play it. Players with families, bills and mortgages to pay. I have a cheap laptop that will run SM2 ok, but I'd need to buy a new one if CCP switch to SM3. There's no way I'm going to get rid of a perfectly servicable machine and buy a new one just to play Eve. I love the game (more than is probably natural) but I can't justify spending the amount of cash required to buy a new machine and continue to pay a subscription. At the end of the day, if CCP switch to SM3 as the minimum in the next couple of years I won't subscribe. Not a rage-quit, simple fact - my subscription will just have to sit idle till I upgrade.
I think it's great that CCP have decided not to implement SM3 this year, but if they go ahead and do it Jan 2010 it's pretty much the same thing. Tbh why not just upgrade the premium client and leave those of us with lower-end machines on stripped down SM2. Last time I looked the things people were griping about were not the graphics.
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Naga Ikia
Ero Guro DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2009.01.26 12:48:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Dagda Morr At the end of the day, if CCP switch to SM3 as the minimum in the next couple of years I won't subscribe. Not a rage-quit, simple fact - my subscription will just have to sit idle till I upgrade.
I think it's great that CCP have decided not to implement SM3 this year, but if they go ahead and do it Jan 2010 it's pretty much the same thing. Tbh why not just upgrade the premium client and leave those of us with lower-end machines on stripped down SM2. Last time I looked the things people were griping about were not the graphics.
Agreed, I'm not going to buy a new machine just to pay eve. Thanks for listening CCP. |
PJRiddick
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Posted - 2009.01.26 13:02:00 -
[312]
Dagda,..i totally agree,...EVE is like a COCANE addition, never been on drugs myself but one can only imagine. I refer back to a post that i did about a week ago. As i posted i made the plea to CCP to leave the classic client for those that do not have money to upgrade,.....WAIT! I got an idea!,.. OH THIS is soo good too,... You know how people buy GTCs with ISK!!! OMG THIS is soo good! HAY CCP,..... Why dont you supply brand new systems that are SM3 ready with all the bells and whistels for allthe people that can buy them with in game ISK! Oh a couple hundered billion ISK would probably cover it,...dont you think! Sarcasim is not my stroug point here,...bear with me.... but getting ack to reality here for jsut a sec,.....CCP,..this is where its going,....people not being able to afford your game anymore. The new lite client is a good idea actually i think its a great idea but as one person pointed out,."its not the graphics that one wants, its the performance" For me,..ive already spent the multibillion of isk and put together a system that i can be proud of, fast, reliable and, OH yes,...SM3 ready,...GaWD it feels like Y2K all over again. >R< Clatu Verada Nicto Fly safe and save yor ISK for when CCP starts selling SM3 boxes for ISK.
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Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 14:28:00 -
[313]
I do have to wonder if the same people on this thread moaning about their ancient computers (yes - 6 years+ is ancient in PC terms, we've only had the Web for 16 years, 3D acceleration for 12 years) not supporting SM2.0 are the same groups who complain loudly about lag?
It's a common misconception that all lag is server-bound, quite a bit is network-bound and some is client bound (especially if you have a lower-end processor, graphics card, amount of ram or a software sound card.
CCP are, at the end of the day, a business. They have to keep up with other MMOs out there or die, updating the graphics is just one way of acheiving this and that is becoming increasingly hard for them as they (up to now) have been saddled with having to support hardware that gamers in other areas would laugh at (try playing any other modern game with a PC from 2003).
As an example:
World of Warcraft (vomits, then OCD hand-washes), which was released in November 2004 needs, as a recommended spec (anyone who considers themself a "gamer" knows to ignore the minimum specs unless you like playing a powerpoint presentation):
Dual-core processor, such as the Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 X2. 1 GB RAM (2 GB for Vista users). 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT class card or better.
Of course, WoW hasn't had a major graphical overhaul unlike Eve.
Eve's requirements can be located on the Eve website
Disclaimer: I have never and will never actually play WoW.
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Anathema Silversky
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Posted - 2009.01.26 14:38:00 -
[314]
why don't you ccp just set up a shader enable/disable option like all normal mmo devs do? i think this will be the most diplomatic decision...u can work for premium only, and people like me wont have to throw away laptops which will be useless...
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JinChilla
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.26 16:16:00 -
[315]
Well I have upgraded to SM3, it was not a big deal. Why I have done that? Surly not because of flashy, shiny graphics awaiting me, I just want to see how T3 Ships, Arc Missions and the implementation of SIMS inside spacestations would be...
But what makes me really laugh is, as the devs stated the same thing with other words >>puuff<< everything will gonna be allright. This is a nice comercial move, at least for now
...we are considering discontinuing support for ShaderModel 2... ...we will however not pursue going to ShaderModel 3... , at least for now.
well is the bottle of beer half empty or half full now??
(sry for possibly bad english) MfG ========================================== [2009.01.26 13:48:00]CCP Claw to Kashimir: Don't say that out loud, people might think that we know what we're doing! |
Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
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Posted - 2009.01.26 16:50:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Elysarian I do have to wonder if the same people on this thread moaning about their ancient computers (yes - 6 years+ is ancient in PC terms, we've only had the Web for 16 years, 3D acceleration for 12 years) not supporting SM2.0 are the same groups who complain loudly about lag?
It's a common misconception that all lag is server-bound, quite a bit is network-bound and some is client bound (especially if you have a lower-end processor, graphics card, amount of ram or a software sound card.
CCP are, at the end of the day, a business. They have to keep up with other MMOs out there or die, updating the graphics is just one way of acheiving this and that is becoming increasingly hard for them as they (up to now) have been saddled with having to support hardware that gamers in other areas would laugh at (try playing any other modern game with a PC from 2003).
As an example:
World of Warcraft (vomits, then OCD hand-washes), which was released in November 2004 needs, as a recommended spec (anyone who considers themself a "gamer" knows to ignore the minimum specs unless you like playing a powerpoint presentation):
Dual-core processor, such as the Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 X2. 1 GB RAM (2 GB for Vista users). 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT class card or better.
Of course, WoW hasn't had a major graphical overhaul unlike Eve.
Eve's requirements can be located on the Eve website
Disclaimer: I have never and will never actually play WoW.
First up - I fully appreciate that lag is also client based - I run on a cheap laptop and appreciate that fact - I do not and have not ever complained about lag.
We're not just talking about laptops that are 6 years old here. I bought a brand-new machine just over a year ago - moving to SM2 will not be a problem - what will cause problems for myself and many others is switching to SM3.
Let's put it plainly - I do not care about how shiny eve is. I play most of the time with the overview zoomed right out or staring at a bunch of spreadsheet-like screens trading. Of all the complaints about the game, graphical considerations are the least whined about.
I fully appreciate the reasons for dropping classic - developing a single product (toned down for lite) makes good sense. Many of us though - even those who can run SM3 but like to multi-client or need high performance simply do not want an upgrade beyond SM2. If I want pretty graphics I'll play on a console, I the depth of the game which has no bearing on the graphics.
Given how long it's been seen the game was created then switching to SM2 - switching from SM2 to SM3 six months later is certainly going a bit fast.
I may be a lone voice crying out in the wilderness, but the simple fact is that many players have extensive financial commitments and buying a new PC just to play a game in this financial climate just isn't going to happen. This isn't some kiddies X-box game that mum and dad bought for christmas - grown-ups have different priorities and ú300 plus suscription to play Eve just isn't one.
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Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2009.01.26 20:21:00 -
[317]
After careful consideration of everyone's worries and complaints on this subject I have the following proposal:
Premium:
Keep as-is with option for future upgrade to SM4.0 or higher for those of us with the cash/system specs to support this (and the inclination)
but
have options built into this client to switch on/off any graphical niceties that may help the PvP people and others who don't require them - I can't see any reason why it would not be possible to code for different detail levels within the current engine.
Is there any way, using the API, that it would be possible to implement a web interface to chat, skill setting and market?
The latter would allow players to do those things whilst simultaneously reducing the strain on heavily-used nodes within the cluster (e.g. Jita) as the only access required by the web client would be to the database.
I, for one, actually like the premium graphics (and apologise to anyone I may have inadvertantly upset with my previous comments - though I stick by the comment that it's possible to upgrade any desktop with a 2GHz+ processor for a lot less than $100/ú100/Ç100 to run premium gfx). |
Sweetness Sideways
Gallente Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2009.01.26 21:44:00 -
[318]
Edited by: Sweetness Sideways on 26/01/2009 21:44:38
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Originally by: Sweetness Sideways
ShaderTesterTool
Mobile Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset Family Shader model 1.1 : yes Shader model 1.2 : yes Shader model 1.3 : yes Shader model 1.4 : yes Shader model 2.0 : yes Shader model 2 A : no Shader model 2 B : no Shader model 2 (software): no Shader model 3.0 : no
This is what I got. I assume that this means that I will not need to upgrade? Well at least I can log in and change skills considering that my laptop struggles with classic at this point.
Slade
yes you'll be able to run SM2 & premium Lite |
Johan Civire
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.26 21:49:00 -
[319]
Ok sounds nice but what about the agp versions ? Lets say for explane the 8x agp ati radeon hd3850 (512mb). This suport the 3.0 but, it is a agp. Some day i will hunt you! |
Sweetness Sideways
Gallente Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2009.01.26 22:13:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Johan Civire Ok sounds nice but what about the agp versions ? Lets say for explane the 8x agp ati radeon hd3850 (512mb). This suport the 3.0 but, it is a agp.
agp is still good, on my previous rig i had a amd64 X2 3800+ (so dual core) and a x1600pro 512MB... it was *and is* SM3 (premium GFX capable), just disable the shaddows and u'll get some fps boost :) |
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Qebh
Purifying Flame - Phoenix Reborn
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Posted - 2009.01.26 23:46:00 -
[321]
While this or that program can find out if your graphics hardware is AGP or PCI-E (or even plain old PCI, for that matter), it has no reason to care. The data gets transmitted either way.
For most purposes, AGP 8x isn't practically any slower than PCI-E yet, it's just easier to have a single standard, so AGP is being phased out early.
This is my understanding, anyway.
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Seirkanis
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Posted - 2009.01.26 23:55:00 -
[322]
Well, if it is possible to downsample the graphics to be compatable with SM2, that begs the question of why this cannot always be the case. Now, compared to the SM4 version, the client may look like crap, but it will still work. The drawback for CCP? Well, obviously maintaining it, but that probably isn't that big a problem since the current code is already there. It also means that they (may) have to keep a separate copy of the texture data and all that will be pushed to the SM2 versions.
As it stands now, it is nice to have the support. In all honesty, I many times turn the premium graphics off on my laptop, and this laptop is a AMD64 laptop with a SM4 NVIDIA card (9600M). It can more than handle it, but sometimes I don't care and like to be able to shift the laptop into what amounts to super-power-save mode. |
Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2009.01.27 04:34:00 -
[323]
How similar to Classic will the polygons/textures be? I didn't really like the direction some of the models took for Premium, and would be rather disappointed if I'm forced to play with 'inferior' looking toys. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Sari Ajantes
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Posted - 2009.01.27 08:04:00 -
[324]
Edited by: Sari Ajantes on 27/01/2009 08:12:55 Hy CCP .. this is my verry first feedback I never wanted to post anything .. but this subject interests me I have a good pc ,and a laptop, I run classic from both, I dont know if I will be able to use the premium on my laptop, my laptop has grafics issues with clasic client.. it drops fps heavyly I am not an expert but I can guess that he wont like premium.. I oftenly used my laptop at work , but this means I will never do anymore.. no problem , I will just play less from home, this however will totally ruin my plans in getting a second account.. What I want to point out is .. eventhough I had premium graphics capabilities on my desktop pc I still used classic, I hate dieing due to performance issues or bad network.. so i sometimes even turn off my effects, it is verry important not to die.. I hope you will conduct sufficient performance test for this "premium lite", I dont want to die while in a lvl 4 mission or while in fleet pvp, because of fancy grafic eye smacking stuff yes I like nice effects, but .. when performance is at stake I would trade effects for performance big time... Thank you!
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Darkeen
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.27 08:04:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Gut Punch
You are worried about making the payment on your house and utilities to keep youself (and possibly your family) dry, warm, and fed and you are even thinking about playing a monthly subscription game??? No wonder the economy is in the tank and people want handouts.
Thanks CCP for moving the game forward on the client side along with the servers.
My thoughts exactly. What a looser. If your so short of $$ then stop playnig computer games and pay off some debt with the money our paying per month on this game...
Otherwise buy a Laptop that isnt four years old... and isnt krap.
Regards,
Jason Brisbane
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Bo'Tox
Amarr Arkor Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.27 08:08:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Elysarian I do have to wonder if the same people on this thread moaning about their ancient computers (yes - 6 years+ is ancient in PC terms, we've only had the Web for 16 years, 3D acceleration for 12 years) not supporting SM2.0 are the same groups who complain loudly about lag?
I disagree...
3 years is old in the PC world. 4 years is possitively ancient!
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Darlon Shae
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:23:00 -
[327]
I have to inform CCP that all of my 3 accounts will be disabled as soon as Classic client is no longer supported. That is because my computer does not support requirements for new EVE.
Thus my all characters and accounts will be voided due this decision. I did love the decision during Trinity not making this stupid mistake CCP now does - that older ocmputers were not obsoleted for running EVE.
Yours Kautsu |
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:31:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Elysarian I do have to wonder if the same people on this thread moaning about their ancient computers (yes - 6 years+ is ancient in PC terms, we've only had the Web for 16 years, 3D acceleration for 12 years) not supporting SM2.0 are the same groups who complain loudly about lag?
It's a common misconception that all lag is server-bound, quite a bit is network-bound and some is client bound (especially if you have a lower-end processor, graphics card, amount of ram or a software sound card.
CCP are, at the end of the day, a business. They have to keep up with other MMOs out there or die, updating the graphics is just one way of acheiving this and that is becoming increasingly hard for them as they (up to now) have been saddled with having to support hardware that gamers in other areas would laugh at (try playing any other modern game with a PC from 2003).
As an example:
World of Warcraft (vomits, then OCD hand-washes), which was released in November 2004 needs, as a recommended spec (anyone who considers themself a "gamer" knows to ignore the minimum specs unless you like playing a powerpoint presentation):
Dual-core processor, such as the Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 X2. 1 GB RAM (2 GB for Vista users). 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT class card or better.
Of course, WoW hasn't had a major graphical overhaul unlike Eve.
Eve's requirements can be located on the Eve website
Disclaimer: I have never and will never actually play WoW.
CCP themselves stated numerous time that most of the lag (the modules not responding and ship not loading) is SERVER issue only!
I have a quad Core Processor 4 GB Ram a 280 series NV card and a 6 MB connection and I stil get the module lag whenever other have it. With my secoind computer with dual core atlhon 64 GF6600 GT and 1 GB ram i have exactly same performance.
And net6work is NOT the issue for sure. In a 200 people battle your computer will be transmitting around 5KBps . Yes I did measured a lot of times. NEver ever network got any close to be a bottleneck in eve. |
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:35:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Dagda Morr The thing about eve is that a good many older players like myself play it. Players with families, bills and mortgages to pay. I have a cheap laptop that will run SM2 ok, but I'd need to buy a new one if CCP switch to SM3. There's no way I'm going to get rid of a perfectly servicable machine and buy a new one just to play Eve. I love the game (more than is probably natural) but I can't justify spending the amount of cash required to buy a new machine and continue to pay a subscription. At the end of the day, if CCP switch to SM3 as the minimum in the next couple of years I won't subscribe. Not a rage-quit, simple fact - my subscription will just have to sit idle till I upgrade.
I think it's great that CCP have decided not to implement SM3 this year, but if they go ahead and do it Jan 2010 it's pretty much the same thing. Tbh why not just upgrade the premium client and leave those of us with lower-end machines on stripped down SM2. Last time I looked the things people were griping about were not the graphics.
so cancel your sub now. Because you may be sure SOMEDAY they will do this move. Its simply ilogical to not do so. Would you think is sane to keep support for Glide3D when the last implementation in hardware of that API was in 1999 ? Hell no! Same will happen to SM2 someday |
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:43:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Mene Ya well i will see what the light version will change to me... i buy 10 months ago a special 200$ boost Ati Saphire 2600 XT /512ram special for AGP platforms (have Direct X10 if you put Vista) running on Barton 2,6 GHz/1 G ram - to see premium... and? i can't see even now some constructions bunkers or sentry in missions in game. I send to CCP my directx and what they want. They say to me to disable the anti-aliasing... But heyyyoooo this graphic card DON'T HAVE the disable option, in fact have 4 option Smoothvision HD anti-aliasing and another Adaptive Anti-aliasing supersampling and multisampling so dear CCP ??... what i choose? heheheheheh
You may be sure it does have the option. Just likely somewhere else in the menu. Should be somethignlike "application controlled" |
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