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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2009.01.19 17:30:00 -
[1]
Following the previous blog on ShaderModel support we recieved a lot of feedback and made a decision based on that. We're sure this will please many of you laptop owners out there, the full details are in Zulupark's dev blog: The results are in; EVE and ShaderModel support. |
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Ariel Acterus
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Posted - 2009.01.19 17:48:00 -
[2]
Good move. Nice one :) |
Spindeln
Duty.
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Posted - 2009.01.19 17:53:00 -
[3]
It would be interesting to get some info on what the trade-off was.
How much extra work to maintain 2.0 support and did you drop any graphics candy from ambulation to make this possible?
I don't mind about the decision, just curious. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.19 17:54:00 -
[4]
Windows Mobile here I come! |
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Sky Grunthor
Minmatar The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.19 17:56:00 -
[5]
YES!!!!!! |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:00:00 -
[6]
Well, my laptop is now junk.
Thanks a lot.
Please send replacement to the address on my account details. Thx.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Ix Forres
Caldari Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:02:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Avon Well, my laptop is now junk.
Thanks a lot.
Please send replacement to the address on my account details. Thx.
If you're running a laptop without SM2, time to upgrade. My EeePC can do SM2. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer ISKsense | EVE Metrics (NEW) | I Tweet |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:04:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Avon Well, my laptop is now junk.
Thanks a lot.
Please send replacement to the address on my account details. Thx.
If you're running a laptop without SM2, time to upgrade. My EeePC can do SM2.
If you are paying I am happy to upgrade.
Otherwise I'll just spend the money on my mortgage, bills, and just generally surviving if that is okay with you.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Ma'kal
Caldari SUNDERING Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:18:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ma''kal on 19/01/2009 18:18:04 I was just wondering if the premium graphics client would require ShaderModel 3? If it did it would be awesome because who doesn't like shiny |
Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:27:00 -
[10]
Good decision. If they can make a shader 2 graphics set out of an automatic downsample, then it's a no brainer to keep that support indefinitely. We want more players not fewer.
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ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:28:00 -
[11]
good move ccp thanks for listening this time |
Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:28:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ma'kal Edited by: Ma''kal on 19/01/2009 18:18:04 I was just wondering if the premium graphics client would require ShaderModel 3? If it did it would be awesome because who doesn't like shiny
Premium already requires Shader 3.
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Altridge McAltpherson
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:29:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Avon Well, my laptop is now junk.
Thanks a lot.
Please send replacement to the address on my account details. Thx.
If you're running a laptop without SM2, time to upgrade. My EeePC can do SM2.
If you are paying I am happy to upgrade.
Otherwise I'll just spend the money on my mortgage, bills, and just generally surviving if that is okay with you.
If you can't afford a new ú300 laptop then frankly you should have bigger concerns than computer games. |
Ma'kal
Caldari SUNDERING Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan
Originally by: Ma'kal Edited by: Ma''kal on 19/01/2009 18:18:04 I was just wondering if the premium graphics client would require ShaderModel 3? If it did it would be awesome because who doesn't like shiny
Premium already requires Shader 3.
Didn't know that thanks :) |
Lucy Lou
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:35:00 -
[15]
Cool, hope it does not hold the premium engine back too much :) |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Altridge McAltpherson
If you can't afford a new ú300 laptop then frankly you should have bigger concerns than computer games.
If 300 quid is nothing to you I accept paypal. |
Jack Gilligan
Dragon's Rage KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lucy Lou Cool, hope it does not hold the premium engine back too much :)
It shouldn't. All the artists have to do is make their art down-sample friendly which shouldn't be too hard, and certainly a LOT less time consuming than maintaining a completely separate art object set for a separate client.
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clone 1
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation Lotto Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:47:00 -
[18]
Good choice, I am curious, what model Vaio, has enough welly to run classic client but doesn't have SM2? -------------------------------------------------- The Angels Have the Phone Box |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:49:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Spindeln It would be interesting to get some info on what the trade-off was.
How much extra work to maintain 2.0 support and did you drop any graphics candy from ambulation to make this possible?
I don't mind about the decision, just curious.
The trade off? The original blog was probably a "feel the water temperature" to have a "go / don't go" impression off the player base. In the first case, more development savings, in the latter, less development savings.
This is wise. Other companies would have just run headbutting against their playerbase and would wake up with a cold shower. I.e. Mythic Entertrainment.
About the BLOG:
Quote:
We will however not pursue going to ShaderModel 3 as a minimum, at least for now. It's quite apparent that while an overwhelming majority has no problems with moving to ShaderModel 2, there are still quite a few (mostly laptop) users out there that cannot support ShaderModel 3 yet. We're going to continue monitoring hardware trends closely and will revise our plan on a regular basis.
This is as close as a good sentence we could get. Only detail I find amiss, you should add "AGP desktop users" to the laptop.
While an AGP SM3 card has the price of fried chips, as AGP desktop user (for my alts, I also have a SM2 laptop and SM4 "main" computer) I immediately see:
- Cheap but hard to get in many countries
- Requires a new PSU => PC is cheaper to just be fed to the garbage bin. Can't find said PSU in several countries any more anyway.
- In any case, the latest AGP cards run with a bus multiplier the computer can't even use at half => no performance gain at all => game still unplayable beyond Powerpoint slide show even for mining with the new deluxe mini client.
Result: someone with a working AGP computer sporting 30+ FPS like in my case would have to trash it. And not everyone are lucky like me to have a "real" SM4 main computer.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:57:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Avon on 19/01/2009 18:57:24
Originally by: clone 1 Good choice, I am curious, what model Vaio, has enough welly to run classic client but doesn't have SM2?
PCG-K115Z |
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.19 18:57:00 -
[21]
Good decision, CCP although perhaps more warning would have been nice.
It's unfortunate that you've left it late to warn people about SM1 but TBH people must be using some really ratty laptops if they can't even handle SM2. My own is over two years old now and was one of the cheapest on the market at the time. Replacing a laptop isn't something most people can do at the drop of a hat. The sooner you get the message out the longer people will have to start saving.
It would be good if you could add a warning for SM2 users. Maybe a warning on the login page? |
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CCP Zulupark
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:00:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Andrue
It would be good if you could add a warning for SM2 users. Maybe a warning on the login page?
Capital idea, we're looking into spreading this message as far as possible to give everyone affected notice. |
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Gut Punch
Shade. Penumbra Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:05:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Gut Punch on 19/01/2009 19:05:28
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Avon Well, my laptop is now junk.
Thanks a lot.
Please send replacement to the address on my account details. Thx.
If you're running a laptop without SM2, time to upgrade. My EeePC can do SM2.
If you are paying I am happy to upgrade.
Otherwise I'll just spend the money on my mortgage, bills, and just generally surviving if that is okay with you.
You are worried about making the payment on your house and utilities to keep youself (and possibly your family) dry, warm, and fed and you are even thinking about playing a monthly subscription game??? No wonder the economy is in the tank and people want handouts. |
Gaius Proeliator
Caldari Omega Propulsion
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:05:00 -
[24]
I approve your decision, CCP. I think you're moving in the right direction, without moving too quickly by maintaining support for SM2. Thank you for listening to the community, and realizing that removing SM2 support would be a hardship for many. |
Helison
Gallente GREY COUNCIL
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Capital idea, we're looking into spreading this message as far as possible to give everyone affected notice.
Yeah, please add it to the motd for TQ. It would be also great if the system requirements (for example in the Knowledge Base or on Evelopedia) could be updated as soon as possible.
Btw: Is there already any answer to what will happen with the official Linux client? |
Grigori Black
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:07:00 -
[26]
So how do you check to see if your computer runs Shader Model 2? |
Altridge McAltpherson
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Avon If 300 quid is nothing to you I accept paypal.
If ú300 is an issue for you and you are old enough to be working, you shouldn't be whining about video games. |
Kweel Nakashyn
Minmatar Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Originally by: Andrue
It would be good if you could add a warning for SM2 users. Maybe a warning on the login page?
Capital idea, we're looking into spreading this message as far as possible to give everyone affected notice.
Could you autodetect the gcards that won't work in loggin screen and warn guys ? A lot of people ask if their computer will work in less than two monthes. |
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 19/01/2009 18:57:24
Originally by: clone 1 Good choice, I am curious, what model Vaio, has enough welly to run classic client but doesn't have SM2?
PCG-K115Z
I'm impressed EVE even works on a 5 year old laptop. |
Mikalya
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:16:00 -
[30]
Thank you
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Samshel
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:18:00 -
[31]
I won't be able to use my laptop anymore |
Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:23:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana I'm impressed EVE even works on a 5 year old laptop.
Like they said in the previous blog: "One of EVE's unique features (along with being an awesome game on a single server) is that it can run on pretty much any computer built after 1998."
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Soi Mala
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:24:00 -
[33]
As someone suggested in a previous thread, a small trial client to render a scene inside station or something would be great for people to test compatibility/performance.
Also, i'm glad you guys have delayed the SM3 thing, i'l still be upgrading soon anyway, just now i don't feel anyone twisting my arm. :P
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LooknSee
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:35:00 -
[34]
I travel a lot, so the ability to login from a laptop in a hotel to change skills is very useful.
Of course, if an alternative to that necessity were added... say, skill queues or the ability to change skills via cell phone then I wouldn't need to login via laptop.... *not to subtle hint* ;) |
Scilent Enigma
Minmatar Vae Victis Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:39:00 -
[35]
I'm really glad CCP decided to make a poll about SM3, Cudos for taking the user feedback into consideration.
Will be looking forward to checking the Premium Lite version out.
Any chance of a public beta for the test server to check how well it works on our computers before a full launch to Tranq |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:39:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Grigori Black So how do you check to see if your computer runs Shader Model 2?
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/
- Free
- No troyans / adware / registration / bull
- No installer
- Small
Launch it, tell to not update, look to the right where it says "SM" in a little cell. |
Malrock
Caldari Mea Culpa Enigma Nexus-Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:47:00 -
[37]
Quality move CCP.
It is long overdue that you would invest into cranking up the visuals. For one, can you please start making all of eve solar systems unique looking, changing backdrop color is kind of boring. Making systems unique in color and content would be a verry good move (nebulae, large asteroid fields, spacial distortions, binary stars, other space phenomena), give us some motivation to explore every system in eve universe ;)
Give us a visit. |
Ki Tarra
Caldari Ki Tech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:48:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Scilent Enigma Any chance of a public beta for the test server to check how well it works on our computers before a full launch to Tranq
Count on it.
Every other client update was available before launch, including the Premium client.
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AnyOldIron
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:48:00 -
[39]
Well done CCP i`m very pleased you listened to both sides ,it`s a refreshing change from other companies i`ve known.
Most of my friends can stay and we`re happy about that.
Thank you very very much.
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.19 19:52:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 19/01/2009 20:04:03
This dev blog do NOT retire the fact that CCP prevent players only 2 months before a major change in the game, asking to pay to be able to play for some.
2 months is not enough.
CCP did an error but don't want recognize it. They just give the impression to listen players, not more, but in final they don't care.
Quote: We had far more feedback than we even hoped for, which has helped us a great deal in reaching our conclusion.
A conclusion ? As your previous conclusion to retire SM 3.0 at end 2009 was realistic...
CCP do the same than politicmen. Say the worse, then give the impression to retreat (but keep some of the annoying measures), then everyone are happy. We forget the 2 months delay and everything. The first posts already confirm that. At least it works well. ___________________
EVE "Community" become more like WoW each day, with his fanboy attitude. Simplistic logic, Lazy thinking, No capacity to comprehend same a justified whine... |
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Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.19 20:01:00 -
[41]
Good move. I still hope you drop SM2 for Ambulation.
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Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.19 20:03:00 -
[42]
Actually, this blog just confirms what the last one said.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.01.19 20:11:00 -
[43]
Great that CCP listened to their playerbase. That shows quality.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.01.19 20:20:00 -
[44]
Nice move. Now people know the change is coming at some point, but don't have to panic about it. If they update their machines like you predict, the delay will propably only be an expansion or two.
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Deva Blackfire
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.01.19 20:21:00 -
[45]
FOR LOVE OF GOD - SAVE MY OVERVIEW SETTINGS. If i change from classic to premium whatever i DO NOT WANT TO SET UP ALL MY CHARACTER WINDOWS/OW SETTINGS AGAIN.
Thank you.
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Solanio
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Posted - 2009.01.19 20:43:00 -
[46]
Originally by: CCP Zulupark We had far more feedback than we even hoped for, which has helped us a great deal in reaching our conclusion.
Thank you CCP. Web2.0 at work. I nearly lost my faith in changing the world via blogs and forums.
btw, any answer to this question: If people just subscribed for a long period and now find out they cannot play after March 10th, will they get any reimbursements? Or do you just dont care? |
Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2009.01.19 20:52:00 -
[47]
I can only repeat my question to CCP, since it was unanswered in the last thread:
Is there any chance or thought to make the new SM2 premium lite client compatible with Swiftshader 2.0 from Transgaming?
This would mean software emulation of SM2 for SM1 computers. Right now the EVE client doesn't allow for non-EVE dlls in the EVE-Folder and i don't want to mess around with it.
A demo can be found here: http://www.transgaming.com/products/swiftshader/
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.19 20:56:00 -
[48]
Again, Don't call it "Premium Lite"!
There's either Premium or Lite - not both! When both clients are called Premium, the "Premium" Part of the name becomes meaningless. Who is the guy that comes up with the names for the clients? Fire that guy! Or throw him off the roof! --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
Kaahles
n0thing Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.19 21:09:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Kaahles on 19/01/2009 21:10:04 Edited by: Kaahles on 19/01/2009 21:09:21
Originally by: Katana Seiko [...] Or throw him off the roof!
Or maybe from the "Tower of Commerce"? It's slightly higher and would make a better show on impact. ----------------------------- OMG THE SKY IS FALLING! Contract me all your stuff so I can save it! |
Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.19 21:26:00 -
[50]
I like the plan shader model 2 is well time model 3 would be to soon at least for this year... maybe end of next year will be a better time for it.
Anyway, please release more information about the new expansion I mean blogs and piles of them I know it is still a little while before we see the actuall patch but having blogs now one a week for instance will keep us busy till then |
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Luke S
Yanacocha
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Posted - 2009.01.19 21:36:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kaahles Edited by: Kaahles on 19/01/2009 21:10:04 Edited by: Kaahles on 19/01/2009 21:09:21
Originally by: Katana Seiko [...] Or throw him off the roof!
Or maybe from the "Tower of Commerce"? It's slightly higher and would make a better show on impact.
Don't forget to video tape it like you did with the Boot.ini video |
redCube
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.19 21:41:00 -
[52]
Wont it be possible to add a "send my hardware spec to ccp" option with one of the following patches? I mean a one time OPTIONAL request to send the hardware info to ccp. This will most likly generate a far better statistic than monitoring a forum thread, especially as there are enough people who do not read the devblogs and forum. (sometimes because of only basic knownledge of the english language) |
padraig animal
Minmatar Vanguard Frontiers Sc0rched Earth
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Posted - 2009.01.19 21:49:00 -
[53]
Step 2: In the Winter Expansion 2009 we are considering discontinuing support for ShaderModel 2 and make the minimum specification ShaderModel 3(GeForce 6 class cards or ATi x1300 or compatible)
So you would need at least a gf 6 to run on max graphics ?
Would be very low ... thinking more of a XFX GeForce 9800 GTx ,anyway i need to upgrade :(
Atm running on a radeon x1650 can run 6 classic clients at once .. doubt that will work in the futhere ... :( |
CyberGh0st
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.01.19 21:50:00 -
[54]
Great news indeed.
Obviously the people at CCP have not lost their mind ( yet :p )
This will allow to keep the balance between good content, nice graphics and low hardware requirements.
Next we need that barebone client with the following : - A still image of the station you are in and the ship you are flying on the background. - The complete interface as you have on the normal client. - Only allow logon on this client when previously docked in a station. - You can not exit the station with this client.
And to push people a bit more towards SM 3.0 : Only allow SM 3.0 users to Walk in Stations
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:17:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Katana Seiko on 19/01/2009 22:25:57
Originally by: CyberGh0st
Only allow SM 3.0 users to Walk in Stations
Imagine that: "Hello? Anyone here?" - "Yes, but we don't have Shader Model 4.0 so we can't walk around - the newest graphics cards didn't ship yet. How comes you have one?"
I vote for the "send my specs to CCP" button (after login on the ESC Menu to prevent spamming CCP with the results). Steam did something similar, and there were lots of people participating in that...
How many people are there with only a Laptop? Haven't those people heard that Laptops are polluting the environment because they're not upgradable? You have to buy the whole stuff again when you want something better... Besides: A premium capable PC costs around 200 $ (GeForce 8300 onboard, Athlon X2 CPU, 1 GiB RAM, 80GB/74GiB HDD), you just have to add a monitor... A Laptop with those things costs about five times that much - the only difference is that you can carry it around. Very useful advantage while playing EVE... |
Murdock Jern
Caldari Gears of Progress
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:18:00 -
[56]
Good Move, CCP.
Personally, I thought it a bit ambitious to move to SM3 so quickly (and yes 12 months is moving quickly for the general population), but I believe realigning the client to SM2 will have a considerable boost to your internal development resources... so I think it's a win-win for CCP and for the consumer.
Now, when will all the new great features be listed for the new client
MJ |
Borgholio
Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:18:00 -
[57]
Good move, CCP. Getting rid of Shader 1 is about time but Shader 2 is still required for many people, especially laptop users. If you postpone scrapping Shader 2 for at least another year or two, then that will give people plenty of time to upgrade. |
zen kei
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:25:00 -
[58]
I dont like your idea ...
First : the classic graphic are more beautiful than new ... You have really watch the new texture ? Less color, less light, all are less beautiful than classic. Check a little the amarr ship/station/... from classic to premium.
Second : EvE not need high graphic ! You need only overview for play and if you don't want a lot of lag zoom OUT ... Don't take more ressources for NOTHING !
For me, remove premium graphic and let only classic ! |
Sprobe
Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:39:00 -
[59]
go ahead guys, my acer aspire A110 has a GMA 950 as far as I can see... it supports SM2 |
Kinomoto Sakura
FW Scuad Black Core Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:44:00 -
[60]
Thanks for continuing with S2 support for now, gives me time to save more money and get some other stuff out of the way first |
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.01.19 22:47:00 -
[61]
Originally by: zen kei
For me, remove premium graphic and let only classic !
But it is not all about you. CCP needs to pull in new players all the time because existing players quit all the time also.
And it is much easier to advertise a game which has good graphics where you can show around most beautiful screenshots.
And we all want that CCP can pay lots of developers to improve the gameplay, don't we? So they need new players, they need the shiny pictures at least to some degee.
Keeping the balance between going for pure profit and making Eve a cash-cow and spending either to much money into developing so that CCP goes bankrupt or focussing on such a small niche that Eve cannot survive is not an easy task.
At the moment I think CCP is doing okay, maybe a bit too focussed on their scrum stuff with their sprints so that they start living in a bubble, being a bit disconnected with Eve and the rest of the world...but hey! as long as they listen to the feedback they get all is good I guess
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ElMo's Ghost
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2009.01.19 23:07:00 -
[62]
Sadly the laptop (Mobility Radeon 7500) that I run my 2nd account on doesn't support SM2. Depending on how my desktop (Radeon X1950 Pro) runs two clients on separate monitors I might just bump down to one account.
It's really a shame because I liked having 2 accounts open while being able to watch both screens. I'm at a point in my life where I don't really need to be buying upgraded gaming computers. I suppose the graphics upgrade will finally help me decide whether or not I really should be paying for 2 accounts.
Overall I'm happy the devs listened to the posts on the last blog but still a bit sad that I'll be forced down to 1 account. Life goes on.
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TalonClark
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Posted - 2009.01.19 23:21:00 -
[63]
Well, i agree on moving to SM2.0, for the sake of laptop users that is.
But, if you are progressing on this road, i think its time now to think about a EVE-Lite Client for mobile platforms (mobile phone, netbooks, organizer, blackbarry, the new e-book readers or tablet pcs....)
Dont miss the trend guys, stay on top!
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Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2009.01.19 23:33:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Doublewhopper on 19/01/2009 23:34:19
Originally by: TalonClark Well, i agree on moving to SM2.0, for the sake of laptop users that is.
But, if you are progressing on this road, i think its time now to think about a EVE-Lite Client for mobile platforms (mobile phone, netbooks, organizer, blackbarry, the new e-book readers or tablet pcs....)
Dont miss the trend guys, stay on top!
Seems you don't realize that they just killed their lightweight client, which used to run perfect on current generation netbooks and also tablet pcs.
Now the Lite client won't run on my tablet pc (geforce 4) and i think ccp will have angry netbook owners on their hand. On the paper netbooks support SM2, but i predict that they will perform at around 1-2 fps and their owners will be very loud on the forums...
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.19 23:35:00 -
[65]
You just eliminated 5/8 of my friends who are playing eve with this change... all of them if you discontinue shader 2.0 support.
and for the record:
they are not upgrading computers just for a game... since they are all adults with families and other priorities... and dont see point in forking over 300 dollars (installation fees and stuff.. and no, they arent computer literate..so a technician has to do the power supply/other thing for them...)
but yeah, it seems CCP is narrowing down on the younger gamers who feel getting an uber-rig is a priority...
instead of keeping it accessible for everyone.
This WILL hurt subs in the long run.
I can honestly say, (my opinion)
the people who prefers to keep a top of the line machine arent going to be the ones playing eve.
again, my opinion and observation.
cant say thats true for all uber computer owners, but yeah.. eve is a slow paced game...
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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TalonClark
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 23:45:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Doublewhopper Edited by: Doublewhopper on 19/01/2009 23:34:19
Originally by: TalonClark Well, i agree on moving to SM2.0, for the sake of laptop users that is.
But, if you are progressing on this road, i think its time now to think about a EVE-Lite Client for mobile platforms (mobile phone, netbooks, organizer, blackbarry, the new e-book readers or tablet pcs....)
Dont miss the trend guys, stay on top!
Seems you don't realize that they just killed their lightweight client, which used to run perfect on current generation netbooks and also tablet pcs.
Now the Lite client won't run on my tablet pc (geforce 4) and i think ccp will have angry netbook owners on their hand. On the paper netbooks support SM2, but i predict that they will perform at around 1-2 fps and their owners will be very loud on the forums...
Oh i realize, thats why i said i'm glad they didnt move to SM3.0.
I'm all for the new mobile platforms, and thats why i think if they go for "high-end grafics" they should also make a 2nd client for mobile platforms, but not as the classic-client was, it should be a tool without 3d, for chat/skill change/market.
Thats the difference.
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.19 23:58:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Mika Meroko I guess I wont be renewing my sub for my 3 remaining accounts either.
Can I have your stuff?
Seriously... Upgrading a PC to SM3 capability is 20$ - not 300... And I just got an answer from a friend of mine - he'll take the rig that I currently use as a server (worth about 100$) - add a new Graphics card and it's absolutely SM3 capable.
I don't think that EVE Lite will take much more resources than EVE Classic - people with an SM2 capable rig will even see an advancement in speed since the client will loose quite some weight. --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 00:04:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Mika Meroko on 20/01/2009 00:05:36
Originally by: Katana Seiko
Originally by: Mika Meroko I guess I wont be renewing my sub for my 3 remaining accounts either.
Can I have your stuff?
Seriously... Upgrading a PC to SM3 capability is 20$ - not 300... And I just got an answer from a friend of mine - he'll take the rig that I currently use as a server (worth about 100$) - add a new Graphics card and it's absolutely SM3 capable.
I don't think that EVE Lite will take much more resources than EVE Classic - people with an SM2 capable rig will even see an advancement in speed since the client will loose quite some weight.
yes, you can have my stuff if my computer cant run the clients anymore.
will be playing with myself after March with a card that barely supports it.
if they move to 3.0. then I am out myself.
and no, not everybody knows how to install things correctly. so is about 300$ at futureshop to get a good card and have it installed.
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Tareen Kashaar
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 00:15:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire FOR LOVE OF GOD - SAVE MY OVERVIEW SETTINGS. If i change from classic to premium whatever i DO NOT WANT TO SET UP ALL MY CHARACTER WINDOWS/OW SETTINGS AGAIN.
Thank you.
Dude, just back them up. ____________
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medecau
Gallente Super Bock Preta
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 00:57:00 -
[70]
Even though gma x3100 has sm4. i appreciate that ccp is willing to slow down on sm2.
also, make it faster and less prone to crashes on mac, please.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 00:59:00 -
[71]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 20/01/2009 01:03:00 Instead of 2 clinet will be possible to make it all big download?
And then just turn down the graphics by click the SM number?
It just seems like only 2 texture maps have to use sm3, so if there was way to just make it part of the game, then you wouldn't have to develop 2 clients.
I can't help but wonder what might be stopping this from happening...
also you could just keep ambulation to SM3 only, I mean it's not like it's coming out at the end of the year :P |
Icecreamvan
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 01:02:00 -
[72]
Well, I think this will make two of my three accounts useless.
Thanks.
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Saturous
Amarr Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 01:09:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Saturous on 20/01/2009 01:09:34 Oh! here is an idea,
Why not instead of cutting off more players to the universe by eyecandifying this game, still give them the option to play by keeping classic? As big as EVE is, there are other games with a much bigger fanbase (thy shall not mention for it is sin) that can afford to do it and not care, but it's obvious. All you're doing is kicking both your members and your 'milestone' in the teeth and saying 'laters!'
I'd, as a personal opinion, think it's slightly lazy. "We can't be bothered to add our eye candy to the classic version so we're cutting our work in half at the expense of fewer players, and fewer 'interested' people wanting to play because they can't run it and cannot afford to fork out money to play, A game.
It's the small things which would make all the difference to this game. Another example of laziness, why is it every time everyone ****ies their pants to the sound of "HICS!" and other new ships, it ends up being a ten minute job of grabbing an older model, adding a different colour and a newer name. PLEASE, stop using the same ship models OVER and OVER and OVER again, Moa > Eagle > Onyx. etc. It's irritating, you've got incredibly talented artists in CCP, which could slap a few polygons about on whatever program you use, and get some different models in store. I'm going to place bets that these 't3' ships are the same as the older ships, only you can take the Ferox's left in-symetrical wing off to stick it on the top instead.
Rant over.
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Lianti
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Posted - 2009.01.20 02:37:00 -
[74]
The only thing I'm really worried about now (have a SM 2.0 laptop), is the performance and visual quality of the low end graphics that will feature in the 'Lite' client. If you're just downscaling textures/meshes (and maybe even normal maps) you're likely going to end up with a far worse looking solution than the models and textures used in the Classic client, maybe even ending up with worse performance with the added shader effects.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 03:19:00 -
[75]
Big thumbs up from me. I'll buy you all a round of drinks if I ever make it out to Fanfest one of these years :) |
Mos7Wan7ed
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 03:26:00 -
[76]
i have one question... those players using premium lite.. will ambulation work for them? |
Nitinol
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 03:27:00 -
[77]
Rather than having to handle multiple client versions, just put an option in the client that lets you render low LOD wireframes, with no textures or lighting effects.
This would be awesome, could achieve high FPS on crap computers, and would be reminiscent of asteroids.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
I know it sounds like a joke, but this is a serious suggestion - it would be awesome. I've actually been wishing for something like this since I started playing eve. |
Glen Morange
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 03:39:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Glen Morange on 20/01/2009 03:43:55 I would second both the call for a small utility to upload computer specs to CCP (This would allow you to have a sense of memory, processor, network device, and videocard). I would note that this will probably need to run on all supported OSes.
I would also love to see some lightweight method (this could be an api/web page) for updating your skill training.
I would also love to be able to hit up my (non-npc) corp chat ((s)irc would seem like an ideal gateway). I might even be willing to pay for this sort of feature. |
Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 03:44:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Glen Morange I would second both the call for a small utility to upload computer specs to CCP (This would allow you to have a sense of memory, processor, network device, and videocard).
I'm honestly surprised the client doesn't do this already. I know WoW has sent computer spec / state information back to Blizzard for years (ostensibly to catch cheaters, but it'd be stupid to not use it to tweak the client and set performance minimums) and nobody really cares. |
Viper ShizzIe
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 03:45:00 -
[80]
Good idea. If people can't/don't want to update their computers past 2002 then they don't have to. All games have system requirements, this one's just got a bit more hefty. |
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Jack Hellbender
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 03:50:00 -
[81]
So, when are we going to get the premium lite client to test on test server?
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Franga
Gristle Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 03:51:00 -
[82]
/me kicks his old XT-086.
Friggin' piece of crap! ----------
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Franga
Gristle Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 03:52:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Nitinol Rather than having to handle multiple client versions, just put an option in the client that lets you render low LOD wireframes, with no textures or lighting effects.
This would be awesome, could achieve high FPS on crap computers, and would be reminiscent of asteroids.
I know it sounds like a joke, but this is a serious suggestion - it would be awesome. I've actually been wishing for something like this since I started playing eve.
I concur. ----------
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ElMo's Ghost
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 04:08:00 -
[84]
Edited by: ElMo''s Ghost on 20/01/2009 04:09:20
Originally by: Kessiaan Edited by: Kessiaan on 20/01/2009 03:36:54 And SM2 cards are dirt cheap ($20), even SM2 laptops don't cost a whole hell of a lot (new EEEs are SM2 capable and only cost like $300 at the low end) - people who are affected to the point they have to quit have bigger issues IRL than EvE, IMO.
I'm sure I could afford a new laptop if I really wanted to. The problem is that I've already got 2 laptops that currently run Eve just fine but won't work at all after the patch. I don't want to buy yet another mediocre computer that will be made obsolete as soon as CCP decides to upgrade the graphics engine again.
I'm not going to emo rage quit. I will just cancel one account and switch to a single account running on my desktop. The reason I'm complaining is because this change will reduce the enjoyment that I will get from Eve by forcing me to run one account or to frequently upgrade my hardware.
Also I support Even in Astroids form. Wireframe would solve most of my gripes.
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Miss IskDigger
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Posted - 2009.01.20 04:48:00 -
[85]
Originally by: ElMo's Ghost Edited by: ElMo''s Ghost on 20/01/2009 04:09:20
Originally by: Kessiaan Edited by: Kessiaan on 20/01/2009 03:36:54 And SM2 cards are dirt cheap ($20), even SM2 laptops don't cost a whole hell of a lot (new EEEs are SM2 capable and only cost like $300 at the low end) - people who are affected to the point they have to quit have bigger issues IRL than EvE, IMO.
I'm sure I could afford a new laptop if I really wanted to. The problem is that I've already got 2 laptops that currently run Eve just fine but won't work at all after the patch. I don't want to buy yet another mediocre computer that will be made obsolete as soon as CCP decides to upgrade the graphics engine again.
I'm not going to emo rage quit. I will just cancel one account and switch to a single account running on my desktop. The reason I'm complaining is because this change will reduce the enjoyment that I will get from Eve by forcing me to run one account or to frequently upgrade my hardware.
Also I support Even in Astroids form. Wireframe would solve most of my gripes.
Under that logic we should be on 386's running MS-Dos and playing pong. Video games have always pushed the system requirements further to keep the interest of people. EVE might be a bit different that your favorite brand of FPS but it too much move forward.
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ElMo's Ghost
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 05:21:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Miss IskDigger
Under that logic we should be on 386's running MS-Dos and playing pong. Video games have always pushed the system requirements further to keep the interest of people. EVE might be a bit different that your favorite brand of FPS but it too much move forward.
No, under my logic we should still be able to play pong on a 386... |
Ephemeral Waves
Federation of Freedom Fighters
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 05:26:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Avon Well, my laptop is now junk.
Thanks a lot.
Please send replacement to the address on my account details. Thx.
If you're running a laptop without SM2, time to upgrade. My EeePC can do SM2.
I'm happy that you're happy. Do you have $2,000 for me to upgrade my laptop? Otherwise, this change sucks for many of us.
|
corElement
hirr
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 05:57:00 -
[88]
Dear CCP
The move to min sm2 is a good choice because there are people with medium quality hardware which run sm3 badly but run sm2 very well.
So my suggestion is that please try and push maximum performance out of the lite version using sm3 models without making it look as old as classic.
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Borgholio
Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 06:41:00 -
[89]
Originally by: ElMo's Ghost
Originally by: Miss IskDigger
Under that logic we should be on 386's running MS-Dos and playing pong. Video games have always pushed the system requirements further to keep the interest of people. EVE might be a bit different that your favorite brand of FPS but it too much move forward.
No, under my logic we should still be able to play pong on a 386...
I actually got Seti@home running on a 386sx once. 3 years for a single work unit....got it down to 1 year by adding the optional 387 co-processor. That was fun. Yes, I'm a nerd. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole! |
Lisaveta Ivanovna
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 07:14:00 -
[90]
I'm not sure about what to think about these changes yet, however I do have a suggestion which may or may not have been suggested many times:
-Some kind of chat, market, skill changing, map client. Make it a text-based terminal if you have to, but something to help the eve junkies log into their world remotely to some degree. (by remotely, I mean away from our home 'Control Center')
My main beef here is with this l337 eve community who troll every CCP update with "Fail" as if this were a bloody YouTube video. It seems that most of the people who threatened to quit playing EVE when they said they were going to in a juvenile attempt to get CCP to change their mind (as if anyone cares), are right back here at the next update pitching the same fit every subsequent update later. EVE is the only mmo I'd ever seriously consider playing because no other mmo even grazes the sheer amount of complexity and depth that EVE has. On top of that, EVE is the ultimate dynamic environment. CCP has always been adding, removing and modifying mass amounts of critical content to the game to even the fields, provide more stimulation and even dimentions to the game. Every change that has come along has been met with SO much opposition in these forums and in-game discussions, but yet for the most part, EVE continues to maintain a huge group of long-time loyal subscribers who continue playing it despite their pre-pubescent ways of showing disapproval. IMHO, I see ccp as artists who don't compromise a 'good-idea' with what the consumer says he wants. They make their game exactly the way they see it in their minds, and the consumers flock to it because it surpasses their original expectations. So even though I may never get the dual-client thing down, and I may need to spend $20 on a new video card for my old computer on ebay, I will be enjoying the update like most of you. |
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Psihius
Caldari Atomic Scrapyard
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 07:47:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Psihius on 20/01/2009 07:51:09 I'm with previous user post.
I'm a new player, just 2 months in game (but quite experienced gamer in the past, grown-up now) and the more I read forum, the more I get he impression that official board is filled with trolls and trolls don't give a f**c about what is really happening - he can sit on a high-end PC and write that he is disappointed about SM model upgrade required. If you really want to get a good impression on what people think, read a few big user created EVE forums - I haven't seen many complaints about SM2 or SM3. Russian eve-ru.com for example haven't had few posts about not been able to run SM2 graphics, got some people who have laptops unable to run SM3 (yea, they play at work - they better be working ;) ), but most plan to upgrade them soon (Windows 7 or hardware is just to old to work on it). Really, today to get a SM3 card you need what? 50$? For 100$ card you will be able to run EVE Premium Lite for years.
P.S. I expect Premium full to upgrade it's graphics even more - Cosmos is great beauty, I'd really want EVE to be able to load a 9800/260GTX card to make it a beautiful game (and dual monitor support :) )
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Hi Lo
Faulty Solutions
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 08:24:00 -
[92]
I support this. Nice to see the ball and chains being cut loose on the possibilities of Eve. now lose the gigabit Ethernet and go infiniband on the cluster. My company bought us infiniband and cisco switches for the SAN cluster and it does not disappoint. Karl Kopalnia > omg Hi Lo is the name I use for all my gaming characters for 15 years--you're the one that took it :*( |
Andrue
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 08:31:00 -
[93]
Originally by: zen kei I dont like your idea ...
First : the classic graphic are more beautiful than new ... You have really watch the new texture ? Less color, less light, all are less beautiful than classic. Check a little the amarr ship/station/... from classic to premium.
Er..I think you should be the one having your eyes checked, lol.
Some of the colour schemes are dissappointing (the Nighthawk is not black enough) but the level of detail and reflections from armour is excellent. I play Premium on my desktop and Classic on the laptop and Premium is definitely better. Classic looks like what it is - nearly ten year old technology with a few tweaks to remove some of the worst rough edges. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Vir Hellnamin
Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 09:00:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Borgholio
I actually got Seti@home running on a 386sx once. 3 years for a single work unit....got it down to 1 year by adding the optional 387 co-processor. That was fun. Yes, I'm a nerd.
Pure combination of Argh and Awesome. |
Shevar
Minmatar Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 09:01:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Mika Meroko
You just eliminated 5/8 of my friends who are playing eve with this change in march... all of them if you discontinue shader 2.0 support.
they are not upgrading computers just for a game... since they are all adults with families and other priorities... and dont see point in forking over 300 dollars for a game they already pay 30 dollars plus (husband and wife teams 2 accounts min per household) to play.
(installation fees and stuff.. and no, they arent computer literate..so a technician has to do the power supply/other thing for them...and no, I dont know how to upgrade a power supply required for those vid cards SAFELY either...)
the people who prefers to keep a top of the line machine arent going to be the ones playing eve.
cant say thats true for all uber computer owners, but yeah.. eve is a slow paced game... and that says a lot in what will become the most likely scenario...
but yeah, these changes will cut out alot of casual players. (I guess mostly those who are parents, older and put less priority on gaming)
I feel sad now....
Srsly a second hand card with sm2 support and no PSU required upgrade costs roughly 10 dollars (getting a medium end 2 year old card is more then enough...). |
Fujiko MaXjolt
Caldari Templar Republic Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 09:37:00 -
[96]
First, I love how you just asked us what would be acceptable - that's why i play eve for the fourth year running Second, does the fact that the textures on premium are fugly count as a concern ? (hello, navy mega with grey patches, ark with almost no red, etc) Personally, I play in classic because of this - even though my current machine has no problem running the premium client... |
Yiasa
KronDair
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 10:10:00 -
[97]
Omg people, stop complaining!, if u don't have sm 2.0 you can get a grapihcs card that does for less then 30 bucks that does sm 3.0 |
Vampiress
Minmatar Enterprise Estonia Cult of War
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 10:18:00 -
[98]
in my computer eve crashed with 8800gt in random times in premium if i run 2 clients. so i have to use classic. if this problem stais with premium lite then it sucks ... |
Azuraito
Caldari Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 11:04:00 -
[99]
To lag or not to lag that is the Premium Lite question?
Enlighten us CCP, will the premium lite client be more laggy in fleet ops?
LaVista Vista for president! .
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Slab Drinklots
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 11:15:00 -
[100]
Enough about the graphics, I want to hear about the new shiny internet spaceship toys we get!
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Scherbe
Caldari Dragon Clan Guardian Federation
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 11:18:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Scherbe on 20/01/2009 11:18:35 The step to ShadeModel 2 is ok for me, BUT if you discontinue Support for ShadeModel 2 in Winter-Expansion i have to cancel the subscription for at least 2 or 3 accounts of my 4 accounts because i have only 1 pc currently capable of ShaderModel 3. My other 2 pcs only have ShaderModel 2 graphiccards. I don't have money to upgrade... oh wait, if i cancel the accounts i will have a lot of money, but do i want to support eve futher after this? ... ---------------------------------
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Squably
Minmatar Invenio Inceptum
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 11:21:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Scherbe Edited by: Scherbe on 20/01/2009 11:18:35 The step to ShadeModel 2 is ok for me, BUT if you discontinue Support for ShadeModel 2 in Winter-Expansion i have to cancel the subscription for at least 2 or 3 accounts of my 4 accounts because i have only 1 pc currently capable of ShaderModel 3. My other 2 pcs only have ShaderModel 2 graphiccards. I don't have money to upgrade... oh wait, if i cancel the accounts i will have a lot of money, but do i want to support eve futher after this? ...
Dude read the damn dev blog before posting will ya Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 11:29:00 -
[103]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 20/01/2009 11:31:43
Originally by: Mika Meroko
but yeah, it seems CCP is narrowing down on the younger gamers who feel getting an uber-rig is a priority...
a 20$ card is considered uber now?
edit: I mean 10$, the 20$ card is SM3. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 11:33:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Ephemeral Waves
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Avon Well, my laptop is now junk.
Thanks a lot.
Please send replacement to the address on my account details. Thx.
If you're running a laptop without SM2, time to upgrade. My EeePC can do SM2.
I'm happy that you're happy. Do you have $2,000 for me to upgrade my laptop? Otherwise, this change sucks for many of us.
and EEEPC is a 200$ low end laptop.
fool |
Baru NaRok
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 12:00:00 -
[105]
Hi all.
What the...? I can't believe this discussion is really going on. Hardware that isn't capable of SM2? Sorry I have to say that but, that machines are from stone-age if you think in technological scale. Other MMORPGs never ever supported SM1 cards *cough* e.g. WoW *cough*. Also not further supporting/offering the classic client will result in better support for the Premium (Light/Lite/Delight ;)) version.
Greets, Baru
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lolie
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 12:05:00 -
[106]
Hi CCP
Is the premium client officialy supported on Linux ?
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achoura
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 12:07:00 -
[107]
Seems to be a fair bit of misconception about cards here, i mean people not knowing what their card supports but pc users using sm 1 cards (pc, not laptop) complaining about cost when you can, literally, get sm2 and bottom end sm3 cards for ú10-15...
also, to quite the blog "We're going to continue monitoring hardware trends closely and will revise our plan on a regular basis." how exactly does ccp do this? Last time i checked I'd never been asked for my hardware stats, nor has anyone i know. It seems strange that ccp would say this unless they're spying on me
Steam got around this problem years ago with their survey tool which is why their games run so well on most pc, even laptops. This thing i'm using right now will get around 12 fps on crysis set at low, a game built on the hardware data conveniently supplied to the developers by nividia, tf2 does a happy 50 because it was built with accurate data from the user base rather than the "this is our newest card wich were going to use game x/y/z to push onto people" data.
What's my point? Afew simple lines of code added to the client would give ccp a 100% accurate set of data showing the hardware spread across their user base, add afew more lines of code and it could warn people that the next patch their system won't be able to run eve. Perhaps better, knowing the exact hardware reduces guesswork for development staff and give simple targets for optimising code = better eve for everyone. |
Mordrake
Orbital Anvil Technologies
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 12:11:00 -
[108]
Who are you! And what have you done with the REAL CCP?
This is either:
1- The culmination of a brilliant plan to stop support for classic EVE with a forced upgrade to SM 2 and minimal complaining from the community at large (possibly even an outpouring of love for CCP)
2- Genuine concern for the opinion of the customer base and a swift change of plans to be more supportive of the community.
Either way, good job keep it up.
As to those of you not in the position to upgrade to SM 2, get freaking REAL!!! Stop smoking for a month or collect all the spare change you get between now and March in a jar.
If you seriously can't swing that then...
Can I have your stuff?
|
Hell March
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 12:12:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Hell March on 20/01/2009 12:14:57 So! How am I supposed to run 5 clients from my old crap rig eh? x300 ati card and 1.5 gigs of ram and a 2.8 gig processor. Yes I do run 5 clients at the same time. Not fun when you get disconnected or crash by any means. Not to mention I have to start all the clients before actaully logging in each charecter or again I crash. So this beeing the case how much can I actaully strip eve down graphically? No I am not to well concerned with eye candy. I play games that are well past there age. Some of them go back 10 or even 15 years. Also how is this going to effect me running say just 1 client during large scale battles? If I cant run at least 4 clients at the same time then there goes a large source of my income which really kills my desire to even play. Most of the peple I am sure you read use multible accounts. Are we going to get alot of options to strip downt he graphics and i dont mean just hitting check marks. I used to play half life mods where I woudl run in 400x300 ona pentium 2 and from the games console I could tone down the texturing size to practailly nothing and I did to turning preety much all graphical features off. THing is I could still kill you just as easily even though my crosshair would take up half the screen LOL.
Basiclly I want to have as many options as absolutely possible to save on graphics cpu and any other system resource that I possibly can.
Also if you really consider most of the people complaining about the graphics switch are the 1's runnign multible clients such as myself |
Golden Gnu
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.20 12:12:00 -
[110]
Thank you for keeping SM2 compatibility :) Please keep it as long as possible (Read: Always)
That just saved me a new computer, plus I'll have awesome models... pure cheer! |
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Zostera
Minmatar SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:29:00 -
[111]
Thank you CCP.
Retaining support for shader model 2 means I can continue to enjoy EvE, since upgrading my PC would not be possible due to financial considerations.
On a side note it is interesting to see the level of flaming directed against those who have said they cannot afford to upgrade. Personally I live with a disability that means I am currently unable to work, I receive very little financial help and live off the savings I put away through many years of working hard and paying taxes.
My EvE subscription is my only "leisure" cost, and the value of entertainment received on a cost per hour basis is far less than probably any other thing I can think of.
I am pretty sure this is the case for many, many others.
So to those you that seem to enjoy flaming those less fortunate than yourselves, remember this before you post.
"There but for the grace of god go I"
Thank you CCP for listening to the many that enjoy your game, and will now continue to do so.
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Solanio
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:34:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Solanio If people just subscribed for a long period and now find out they cannot play after March 10th, will they get any reimbursements?
Still no answer to my question CCP. |
Gawain Hill
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:39:00 -
[113]
why do so many people want to play computer games and not get a computer or laptop capable of playing said computer games? I supose they'd like all computer games companies to make games to run with graphics that look like they come from the 80's?
Personally I like my games with pretty graphics and if they're that hard up they can't get a laptop or pc that'll run shader model 2 then look up something called swiftshader turns out it'll fake it for you and all you do is take a fps hit.
Personally I think ccp should scrap shader model 2 and move right up to 3 I want my games pretty damn it and yes it means I'll be getting a new graphics card for shader model 3 and yes I'm just as poor as the next guy.
Put nicly for the people who use laptops out of convience and not as their main playing platform apparently there is something called swiftshader that can emulate a shader model 2 graphics card, it'll mean a hit to your fps but all you need to do to not notice is take part in some huge fleet battles and it'll be just like normal :D |
Fujiko MaXjolt
Caldari Templar Republic Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:53:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Solanio
Originally by: Solanio If people just subscribed for a long period and now find out they cannot play after March 10th, will they get any reimbursements?
Still no answer to my question CCP.
Here, i'll answer for you : No. Never. Not ever. No.
You already played the time you paid for. You wouldn't go down to the store after they stopped selling your favorite candy-bar and expect a reimbursement for all the candy-bars you ever bought - now that you can't buy anymore ? Or would you.... |
Keiko Kobayashi
Amarr IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:55:00 -
[115]
Actually, this will be interesting! Ever since I installed Premium, my three year old laptop canÆt run EVE on its native resolution (1680x1024) anymore, and I didnÆt want to run the classic client. Hopefully this æPremium LiteÆ setting will let me run on native resolution again, without too much loss of graphical detail. |
Keiko Kobayashi
Amarr IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:13:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Fujiko MaXjolt You already played the time you paid for. You wouldn't go down to the store after they stopped selling your favorite candy-bar and expect a reimbursement for all the candy-bars you ever bought - now that you can't buy anymore ? Or would you....
I think you missed the point ù you can buy game time in advance for many months. This is the time he is talking about, and wants reimbursed if he cannot play anymore due to increased system requirements, not the already used months of game time.
But IÆm sure if youÆre in this situation, after a call to support they will happily reimburse you, it wonÆt be many players who will be in this situation anyway. |
Desmont McCallock
Interstellar Enterprises of EVE
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:13:00 -
[117]
Well. As I am concerned, I have three Desktop PC's with the wicker carrying a GF6600GT, the middle one a GF7200 and the stronger a GF8500GT. As you all figured out this change on EVE classic client won't affect me at all. Now, as for the laptop users, come on... have you seen the prices on the market for one? Even I am thinking of buying one just for the fun of it. |
PJRiddick
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:34:00 -
[118]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 20/01/2009 11:31:43
Originally by: Mika Meroko
but yeah, it seems CCP is narrowing down on the younger gamers who feel getting an uber-rig is a priority...
a 20$ card is considered uber now?
edit: I mean 10$, the 20$ card is SM3.
Then why did i just pay $175.00 or there abouts for an ATI 3850 AGP? And yes i got it just for playing EVE along with the 32 inch LCD that is sitting on my desk!
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Keiko Kobayashi
Amarr IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:36:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Keiko Kobayashi on 20/01/2009 13:36:44 I bought a laptop for when I was studying abroad for a year (obviously I couldnÆt bring my desktop with me in the plane). Also, once you have a laptop, it seems kind of wasteful to buy a desktop as well (even though I have one now). So there are definitely good reasons for not owning a desktop. However that laptop, that I now have 3 years, can run shader model 3, soà
Admittedly, I bought the laptop version with Radeon Mobility graphics card, not the cheaper one with integrated graphics, but hey, everybody knows integrated graphics cards are not very suitable for games. |
Hidden Snake
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:42:00 -
[120]
well it doesn't matter you can run it on amiga if lag will kill it completely. faction warfare in blackrise is completely cripled by this as big fleet engangements always end up in complete lagstuck. SO PLEASE FIX THE LAG FIRST AND THEN SMACKTALK ABOUT HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS. This is the biggest bug of quantum rise. It was not so bad 2 months ago, but now it sucks. |
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Luteros
Minmatar Corps der Traenen
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Posted - 2009.01.20 14:03:00 -
[121]
I guess all this is about the Windows client, what about Linux? Do we get premium? Do we get a native running Client?
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.01.20 14:27:00 -
[122]
I think this was the best possible compromise.
I am, however, curious if you are planning to step up the hardware requirements in other areas as well, now that the classic client will be discontinued. For example, CPUs.
The system requirements of EVE read thus: - Classic --- Minimum: 800MHz Pentium 3 (MMX, SSE) or AMD Athlon (MMX) --- Recommended: 1,5 GHz Pentium 4 (MMX, SSE, SSE2) or Athlon XP (MMX, SSE) - Premium --- Minimum: 1,5 GHz Pentium 4 (MMX, SSE, SSE2) or Athlon XP (MMX, SSE) --- Recommended: 2,0 GHz Pentium 4 (MMX, SSE, SSE2) or Athlon XP (MMX, SSE)
From this lineup, I can deduct that the client is compiled with MMX extensions, but without using SSE extensions. These extensions are special instructions that are necessary to allow a CPU to use its full set of internal functionalities when processing code, and can make staggering differences (using a SSE3 engine instead of a non-SSE engine for Seti@Home, for example, more than doubles (!) processing speed). Modern CPUs can use up to SSE4.2, which is the sixth or seventh iteration of the set.
However, if CCP were to discontinue supporting the AMD Athlon CPU, and instead require Athlon XPs (like the Premium client already does), then the client could be compiled using at least the first-gen SSE extensions. This can potentially make the client much more performant on (surprisingly enough) the remaining CPUs on the low-end of the spectrum, because it is those which are having to work the hardest. It would also improve multi-accounting, provided the video card can handle it.
On the other hand, the original Athlon was a tremendously popular CPU. CCP would have to look into how many of those are still around. And of course, check into how much performance the EVE client does in fact gain from the first-gen SSE set (I'm only throwing around theories here).
Furthermore:
Considering that the classic client is being dropped, and the Premium client lists the Athlon XP as minimum requirement, people with original Athlons or Pentium 3's may experience problems anyway. Has CCP considered the impact of the new "Lite" client on old CPU architectures? If it will not run properly anymore because the CPU can't cope with what the SM2 video card asks of it, then this should be mentioned by CCP in their warnings about the discontinuation of the classic content so that people who plan their upgrades know what they need.
-
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Jai Cee
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:01:00 -
[123]
It would be nice if people had a chance to try out the new Premium Lite client on TQ too BEFORE you cut off support for Classic. While I begrudgingly (since I like to do in station stuff on my laptop which is SM1 and was working just fine thanks) accept Classic is going it would seem incredibly unprofessional to not release Premium Lite ASAP.
I find that even on my desktop which is very high end (Quad 3.3GHz, 8800GTS graphics) running two clients at the same time results in a slide show where I normally get 140fps wit all settings on high with a single client. Given that two clients is so important to a lot of the player base I can't see how you could countenance not having a transition period where Classic, Lite and Premium are all supported.
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Malusae
Caldari House CHOAM Terrebellum
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:03:00 -
[124]
CCP should do like steam does and do a hardware survey every once in a while.
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Freemancos
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:06:00 -
[125]
Hey, sometimes i'm playing eve on asus eeepc 4G with great 15 fps. So, what I suppose to do now?
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:08:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Jai Cee (...) I can't see how you could countenance not having a transition period where Classic, Lite and Premium are all supported.
The very reason for discontinuing the classic client prevents this.
Apocrypha brings us Tech 3 ships.
There are no art assets (models, textures, etc) for Tech 3 ships being developed the classic client, because it takes way too many development resources.
Therefore the classic client can not, in any way, shape or form, possibly continue to exist even one day after the expansion is released. |
Jen Lee
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:09:00 -
[127]
So I have my laptop with Radeon express 200m graphics. Which according to the linked Wiki page does not support shader model 2.0 but 1.4.
The GPU-Z program says the card supports Shader 2.0. And I have found other support pages to confirm SM 2.0 also.
Is the Wiki page incorrect or the GPU-Z program?
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Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:20:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Baru NaRok Hi all.
What the...? I can't believe this discussion is really going on. Hardware that isn't capable of SM2? Sorry I have to say that but, that machines are from stone-age if you think in technological scale. Other MMORPGs never ever supported SM1 cards *cough* e.g. WoW *cough*. Also not further supporting/offering the classic client will result in better support for the Premium (Light/Lite/Delight ;)) version.
Greets, Baru
What is the technological scale? How does it fit with you that today SM2 machines (netbooks) are sold while SM4 is available and SM5 is on the horizon?
Also don't post pure lies...the current requirements for WoW is right at the time of this posting:
3D graphics processor with Hardware Transform and Lighting with 32 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon 7200 or NVIDIA GeForce 2 class card or better
If you don't know what SM1 or SM2 means, please don't post here!
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Ishina Fel
Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:24:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Jen Lee So I have my laptop with Radeon express 200m graphics. Which according to the linked Wiki page does not support shader model 2.0 but 1.4.
The GPU-Z program says the card supports Shader 2.0. And I have found other support pages to confirm SM 2.0 also.
Is the Wiki page incorrect or the GPU-Z program?
When in doubt, contact ATI technical support... but in this case, I'm inclined to believe GPU-Z over the wiki.
-
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ElMo's Ghost
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:33:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Freemancos Hey, sometimes i'm playing eve on asus eeepc 4G with great 15 fps. So, what I suppose to do now?
Wait so you're telling me that you can't run eve very well on a $300 laptop. I guess the solution for those of us with laptops isn't going to involve a $300 fix as stated before.
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Haral Reimo
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:34:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Jen Lee So I have my laptop with Radeon express 200m graphics. Which according to the linked Wiki page does not support shader model 2.0 but 1.4.
The GPU-Z program says the card supports Shader 2.0. And I have found other support pages to confirm SM 2.0 also.
Is the Wiki page incorrect or the GPU-Z program?
GPU-Z is correct. My old laptop has a Radeon Express 200m chipset, and can definitely run shader model 2.0 software. I suspect you're confusing it with the R200, which is the chip used in the Radeon 8500 cards and can only support SM 1.4
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Njord V
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:38:00 -
[132]
Nice!
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Jen Lee
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:44:00 -
[133]
Thanks for clearing that for me.
Since the Wiki page does not have "all" the specifics, um maybe CCP shouldn't be pointing us in that direction but in a better one?
0/
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Freemancos
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:53:00 -
[134]
Originally by: ElMo's Ghost
Originally by: Freemancos Hey, sometimes i'm playing eve on asus eeepc 4G with great 15 fps. So, what I suppose to do now?
Wait so you're telling me that you can't run eve very well on a $300 laptop. I guess the solution for those of us with laptops isn't going to involve a $300 fix as stated before.
What? 15fps is great for me, but with the elimination of the classic client perhaps I will have less fps, or directly don't run |
Wolfie276
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:58:00 -
[135]
nice move :D
but still a bit unfair for the people with not enough money for upgrade
just keep the classic client as a 3rd opinion please :)
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Rhibhinn
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:02:00 -
[136]
Thanks for listening to the army of laptop users out there CCP. Good compromise.
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Haral Reimo
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:05:00 -
[137]
Originally by: ElMo's Ghost
Originally by: Freemancos Hey, sometimes i'm playing eve on asus eeepc 4G with great 15 fps. So, what I suppose to do now?
Wait so you're telling me that you can't run eve very well on a $300 laptop. I guess the solution for those of us with laptops isn't going to involve a $300 fix as stated before.
The eeepc isn't a laptop. It's a netbook, which have massively reduced performance compared to a laptop.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:26:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Freemancos
Originally by: ElMo's Ghost
Originally by: Freemancos Hey, sometimes i'm playing eve on asus eeepc 4G with great 15 fps. So, what I suppose to do now?
Wait so you're telling me that you can't run eve very well on a $300 laptop. I guess the solution for those of us with laptops isn't going to involve a $300 fix as stated before.
What? 15fps is great for me, but with the elimination of the classic client perhaps I will have less fps, or directly don't run
I play EvE regularly on my 1000H and usually get 30-40. Granted I zoom out all the way in 'busy' scenes and I've tweaked on a lot of my video settings (not to mention disabling sound, which for some reason greatly boosts FPS in Classic), but it gets the job done.
I still expect better performance from a 'Premium Lite', as Premium utilizes the GPU a lot better.
And either way, this change is coming whether you like it or not, so deal with it or quit, tbh. |
Deva Blackfire
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.01.20 17:29:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Tareen Kashaar
Originally by: Deva Blackfire FOR LOVE OF GOD - SAVE MY OVERVIEW SETTINGS. If i change from classic to premium whatever i DO NOT WANT TO SET UP ALL MY CHARACTER WINDOWS/OW SETTINGS AGAIN.
Thank you.
Dude, just back them up.
Dude - backup doesnt always work. |
ElMo's Ghost
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:00:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Kessiaan And either way, this change is coming whether you like it or not, so deal with it or quit, tbh.
This thread was created so players could post their opinions on the new changes. Close the thread or deal with the complaints, tbh.
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PJRiddick
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:09:00 -
[141]
To CCP: To address a couple things here, 1) If you do take the classic client out of use, there are going to be a percentage of people that are not going to be able toplay only because they will not have themoney to upgrade there systems to play. Remember that there are a lot of people here that are using mommy and daddys system, a system that they got at tigerdirect or rprobably went strait to DELL and got the cheepest system that they could find jsut to satisfy there need to keep up with the jonses, and these are the systems that JR ar eplaying EVE on, >i shoudl know, with in my corp there are several in that respect now< and if you do discontinue the classic client, they will not be able to play at all. 2) using a client that requires a heaftier vid card in it only limits the players that can play eve,...again see #1 for that answer. Heres the solution: Go ahead and produce and put into production the new PREMIUM LITE package client of EVE and get it up and running. Leave the classic client on line for the time being with a time limit of one year til lyou actually remove it form service thus allowing people time to either upgrade or get a new system to play eve. I actually think that you at CCP are a bit harsh to just spring this on us all at once at least as fast as yo all did. i think its cool that you are putting out a new client and all but give us a little more advanced notice, you got to think about the little guys here that play your game. I for one can afford the better graphics. Resontly i upgraded my system to 4 gig of ram, an ATI 3850 AGP,...and a new 32 inch LCD display. Talk about tracking that killing shot in for the winning hit,...I have to track it with my head just to see the whole thing! anyway the point is CCP,......if you were to take the classic client out totally, then there are going to be a large percentage of people that are not going to be able to play for what ever reason mostly becasue of money and upgrades. Give it some thought,...You all havent disapointed me yet,...i doube that you will this time.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:21:00 -
[142]
I'm extremely pleased that CCP listened to the feedback of the majority, instead of doing what the vast majority of companies do, which is just plow on ahead regardless.
Originally by: Ishina Fel I am, however, curious if you are planning to step up the hardware requirements in other areas as well, now that the classic client will be discontinued. For example, CPUs.
Superb spot. This is an excellent question and worthy of feedback from CCP.
The other possibility is that rather than a specific difference in SSE, the minimum clock speed of 1.5GHz is the reason they favour the Athlon XP. The maximum Thunderbird speed is 1.4Ghz and may have been deemed below the bar.
If we assume it is due to SSE, a lot would depend on what compilers and languages are actually used throughout the client, beyond the obvious Python. Quite a few compilers won't select SSE or other instructions such that the code will no longer run without it - instead, the programmer must explicitly use SSE intrinisics in the code - one major exception that comes to mind is the Intel C/C++ compiler which can add those sorts of instructions natively during compilation.
From what you describe, it would indeed seem that the Athlon Classic/Thunderbird processors would be incompatible if SSE is the issue, unless the Premium Lite and thus the Premium client (since it's implied to be shared code) are adapted to allow for the lack of SSE. Given that every SSE function can be emulated more slowly in 'normal' code, that is at least feasible. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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joydivisionn
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:28:00 -
[143]
Iam afraid that both my laptop AND pc are not going to like this.... and me neighter.
i love to play eve but i cant afford to buy 2 new systems, hell, i cant affort to buy 1 new system...
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Adam Reed
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:49:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Altridge McAltpherson
If you can't afford a new ú300 laptop then frankly you should have bigger concerns than computer games.
If 300 quid is nothing to you I accept paypal.
What he said. My god, what senseless middle-class arrogance.
To CCP, right decision I think. It means no more laptop EVE for me but it makes sense for the future of the game, while ditching Shader 2 at this point would have been going too far due to the point addressed in my first sentence and the words "economic downturn". |
Claude Jorgen
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:27:00 -
[145]
Stop messing around and make peops upgrade to sm4.
All those eve junkies heading out to by new cards will revive the economy and save the world \0/.
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Rakivic
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:29:00 -
[146]
I hope that your going to finaly fix the Nvidea rendering problem that some people are having (like me for one) ----------------------------------------------- [Image Removed] CCP did not like my signature so I had to replace it with this one |
zen kei
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:31:00 -
[147]
Gnulpie
You have watch a station Amarr with classic graphic ? Light which move near the station, station have the color of gold. Take the premium graphic and light dissapear, the gold is transformed to dark bronze.
Watch a lot of amarr ship t2, the classical graphic are really more beautiful than premium. Crusader, ark, guardian, ... and all other, check the red, the gold.
And why you can like a game which take more ressources for nothing ? There are probably enough thing to unbug, improve before that ...
CCP have say than concentrate their team for resolve bug. 10 bugs for 1 one thing add.
For the moment its a 1 bug corrected for 10 add and 10 old thing removed too or change for cant by used anymore.
I put that in the list with all other errors from CCP.
Price of gtc increased, some gtc removed, a lot of players have cancel their accounts because the price is too expensive. Yes ccp win more money but lost many accounts. If CCP prefer have 10 players which pay 1000$/month than 10k players which pay 10$/month, it's the CCP problem ! But when the people have some problem of money, the first thing stopped are the useless thing like online game !
Bye CCP, its too much for me.
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Bibi
Basic Tritanium Mining North
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:49:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Bibi on 20/01/2009 20:54:22 I got mixed feeling about this change. At first I only got very angry, but I understand that the game must move forward. But I think this is the wrong way, as far as I know its not been a lot complains on the eve classic client if any. So why change it even if more work.
I understand that people with good or latest hardware want to see support for it in the game and so they should get it from CCP thats good. But would have been very nice to see classic version survive as well, just because a lot of eve customers liked it a lot.
For myself the eve playing is over for now, when subscription run out this month, but I will be back for sure when I get new computers ofcurse even if it will take a few years as I study atm I can't afford new computers at this point. I did run multiple accounts in the game and there is no way I would play eve without being able to use all accounts at the same time as I can now with classic. Maybe selfish I don't know...
later people o/
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zacuis
Great Big Research
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:11:00 -
[149]
Edited by: zacuis on 20/01/2009 21:12:11 So will lite work better or worse than classic on my advent 4490 netbook ? really looking forward to the test release.
frankly i cant understand why u guys arnt just releaseing 1 client that has the options to reduce visual quality to the point u can run it on anything. i know it would be popular. guess it shows my lack of understanding into programming.
oh and thanks for not killing shader model 2 just bought this netbook and the only reason i got it was to play eve ( at work ).
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Ragya
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:35:00 -
[150]
S3, S4, S5, Sn ok, but please please change the background of system. No need of further Ssomething... |
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Windryder
Caldari BlackScope Black Scope Project
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:38:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Altridge McAltpherson
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Avon Well, my laptop is now junk.
Thanks a lot.
Please send replacement to the address on my account details. Thx.
If you're running a laptop without SM2, time to upgrade. My EeePC can do SM2.
If you are paying I am happy to upgrade.
Otherwise I'll just spend the money on my mortgage, bills, and just generally surviving if that is okay with you.
If you can't afford a new ú300 laptop then frankly you should have bigger concerns than computer games.
No I think the point is that we have perfectly good laptops that can still run everything BUT the new EvE client.
Yes I'm also one of those gameplay>graphics people who will be losing an eve-capable laptop that we used to use for running our freighter-pilot/cyno-alt/pos-monkey/scan-alt/leadership-booster while we did stuff on our main.
I think getting us to junk our old laptops during an economic meltdown is only going to hurt CCP in the long run as people drop accounts they can no longer fully utilise because they are unable to use otherwise viable hardware.
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Dentad
Price of Progress Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.20 22:30:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Grigori Black So how do you check to see if your computer runs Shader Model 2?
Run utility http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/ Look in DirectX Support box. |
AonChilo
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.20 23:33:00 -
[153]
I plan to upgrade after Windows 7 is released. For now I have WinXP with a SM v2.0b card: ATI Radeon X800 Pro 256mb RAM. This card is very sufficient to run my computer. Of course I can always temporarily cancel my game subscription of CCP cannot wait for Win 7 to release. |
Morgaaan
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2009.01.21 00:28:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Mika Meroko Edited by: Mika Meroko on 20/01/2009 00:15:25
Originally by: Katana Seiko
Originally by: Mika Meroko I guess I wont be renewing my sub for my 3 remaining accounts either.
Can I have your stuff?
Seriously... Upgrading a PC to SM3 capability is 20$ - not 300... And I just got an answer from a friend of mine - he'll take the rig that I currently use as a server (worth about 100$) - add a new Graphics card and it's absolutely SM3 capable.
I don't think that EVE Lite will take much more resources than EVE Classic - people with an SM2 capable rig will even see an advancement in speed since the client will loose quite some weight.
PS: Question: where do you find 20$ (canadian) cards in stores? ... the cheapest I seen are about 60 dollars atleast.
and no... ordering over the net wouldnt help... Canadian customs are nasty, last card I ordered over the net for cheap I ended up paying import fees/taxes to the point where is cheaper to buy local.
meh...
http://www.ncix.com/
Goto that link if yer Canadian and lookin for good deals for web shopping.No customs to worry about,the store is in BC and if you live outside BC then you pay 0% sales tax.(which in alot of cases can more than cover air freight).They also have forums so you can ask some guru for an opinion on something if your not sure.
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Tweakalvos
Your Cute When You Scream
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Posted - 2009.01.21 01:07:00 -
[155]
Well I'll say this we are getting an unproven product with premium lite. I for one am one of those that will be left out in the cold. These changes in my opinion were not only rushed but more of a modernization. I can understand this but as many have put premium atm isn't stable. We still have bugs with the classic client. The new one will be unproven if not anything not well bug tested like many of the products that have been put forth. QR patch for weeks had bugs. We still stick with you ccp because of your game is great. I will upgrade as soon as I can. But still think this is something that should have been given more time for the folks that need to upgrade. Instead of 1 month of yeah you need to upgrade because it cost you too much to maintain the old client. I can understand these things. But in the end after my argument i can understand and am willing to press on. It is a game. I will be hopefully purchasing a new computer soon. If not I will be out due to these changes. My only wish is that these changes could have been pushed more toward summer. But these things are understandable. |
Shereza
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Posted - 2009.01.21 02:47:00 -
[156]
Can you please fix the problems with Premium graphics and ATI cards before discontinuing the Classic graphics?
The Classic graphics package is, so far, the only one that has not given my computer a BSoD. Premium graphics did it back with the May release of ATI's drivers whenever my nightmare was loaded, video BSoD when logging in with me in it and a hard drive BSoD of all things when I switched to the nightmare after logging in.
In addition, with the December release, at least, of ATI drivers mouse clicks in the graphics window crash EVE when running in Premium graphics.
Both problems are solved by using Omega drivers but that creates severe client instability when running 3 clients that often causes my computer to lock up solid without even giving me a BSoD or crash message of any sort.
It's been over a year since the last Omega ATI drivers were released and so much can change in a year that I'm questioning using them, but when Premium graphics is so horribly unstable with the official drivers from ATI I'm not sure what to do except ask that these issues be removed from the Premium graphics engine before you phase out the Classic engine.
I'm not against phasing out the Classic engine, though it will make it harder to get a second EVE machine going (one computer I was looking at can't fit a full height AGP card), but I am against phasing out the most stable and compatible graphics engine in favor of something that reacts badly (crashes, BSoDs, etc.) to official drivers. |
Myntelle NicAtoch
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Posted - 2009.01.21 02:52:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Myntelle NicAtoch on 21/01/2009 02:54:29
My laptop claims graphics claims to be run by an ATI Radeon Mobility 7500. I don't think that even has Shader 2. My desktop is slighty better, being AGP with an NVidia 5700LE. A few years ago, I used to run five accounts simultaneously across the pair of machines. Even when running ONE account, I don't WANT the fancy graphics in normal game play. If there was a graphics option to reduce down to Braben and Bell's Elite level, I would almost always use that. I deduce from this that despite my five accounts, I do not fit the profile of customer that CCP are chasing. Or am I wrong?
Myn |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.21 03:08:00 -
[158]
CCP can remove the need for SM3.0 by providing an option to render EVE using wireframe or untextured, gaussian shaded polygons. Think of "Battlezone" or "Elite"
CCP could then require SM3 or SM4 for people who want to have fancy textures, allowing everyone else to do their skill swaps, hauling and mining with ships that look like paper cutouts.
A "send my graphics card details to CCP" option in the Graphics options should help somewhat.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.01.21 03:36:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Mara Rinn CCP can remove the need for SM3.0 by providing an option to render EVE using wireframe or untextured, gaussian shaded polygons. Think of "Battlezone" or "Elite"
CCP could then require SM3 or SM4 for people who want to have fancy textures, allowing everyone else to do their skill swaps, hauling and mining with ships that look like paper cutouts.
A "send my graphics card details to CCP" option in the Graphics options should help somewhat.
you and your 5 accounts are not the kind of customer CCP is chasing after. |
Borgholio
Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2009.01.21 04:49:00 -
[160]
Originally by: MotherMoon
you and your 5 accounts are not the kind of customer CCP is chasing after.
If CCP wasn't chasing after multi-account users, why do they keep offering Power of Two deals? |
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.01.21 06:48:00 -
[161]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 21/01/2009 06:48:44
Originally by: Borgholio
Originally by: MotherMoon
you and your 5 accounts are not the kind of customer CCP is chasing after.
If CCP wasn't chasing after multi-account users, why do they keep offering Power of Two deals?
I'm sorry but what part of that reads power of 5?
|
Axium Cog
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Posted - 2009.01.21 06:51:00 -
[162]
Personally the Shader3 would kill me. I fall into the laptop group and while I can support Shader2 the 3 upgrade would bump me from Eve permanently. Im a college student and I cant just upgrade on a whim to continue playing a game. Its my opinion that there should be a distinct difference between light and premium. It allows a window for more players those that want the eye candy can always upgrade to the premium package, and those that simply dont want a graphics intensive version or cant afford it can play around with the light. Why alienate players simply because they cant afford to buy a new computer?
Here's to hoping i dont get forced out in a year due to sysreq changes.
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Thrymren
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Posted - 2009.01.21 07:30:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Axium Cog Personally the Shader3 would kill me. I fall into the laptop group and while I can support Shader2 the 3 upgrade would bump me from Eve permanently. Im a college student and I cant just upgrade on a whim to continue playing a game. Its my opinion that there should be a distinct difference between light and premium. It allows a window for more players those that want the eye candy can always upgrade to the premium package, and those that simply dont want a graphics intensive version or cant afford it can play around with the light. Why alienate players simply because they cant afford to buy a new computer?
Here's to hoping i dont get forced out in a year due to sysreq changes.
oh my... we aretalking about shader2! if u do have a computer that supports any agp/pcie graphics cards go into a store and spend 20$ on a 'new' graphics card... i'd be surprized if theres anyone out there playing eve who can't afford that! at least there are 15$ monthly subscription fees... u finance your account by isk? the go buy 2 PLEX and trade them in forum for a new graphics card that supports the 'new' shader, i'm pretty shure there will be someone willing to trade :)
for the 'hope not to be out in a year' part i'll take a look into my magic mirror... aaah! it sais by the time ccp changes eve onlines minimum graphic requirements again the graphics cards to support it will be 20$ maximum...
;)
regards thrym
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Halvus
Minmatar Wolfington Industries Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 07:31:00 -
[164]
This is excellent news. I have two Dell laptops that are just a year old, both of which support SM2 only. Its good to know that I can continue to play eve :)
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Borgholio
Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2009.01.21 07:33:00 -
[165]
Originally by: MotherMoon
I'm sorry but what part of that reads power of 5?
You miss the point. Regardless of the actual number of accounts, CCP deliberately tries to get their customers to subscribe to multiple accounts. Whether it's only two or something ridiculous like five is irrelevant. The point is that since CCP wants people to get multiple accounts, it is a reasonable assumption that one would be allowed to play more than one instance of EVE the same time on a single computer. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole! |
Halvus
Minmatar Wolfington Industries Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 07:34:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Thrymren
Originally by: Axium Cog Personally the Shader3 would kill me. I fall into the laptop group and while I can support Shader2 the 3 upgrade would bump me from Eve permanently. Im a college student and I cant just upgrade on a whim to continue playing a game. Its my opinion that there should be a distinct difference between light and premium. It allows a window for more players those that want the eye candy can always upgrade to the premium package, and those that simply dont want a graphics intensive version or cant afford it can play around with the light. Why alienate players simply because they cant afford to buy a new computer?
Here's to hoping i dont get forced out in a year due to sysreq changes.
oh my... we aretalking about shader2! if u do have a computer that supports any agp/pcie graphics cards go into a store and spend 20$ on a 'new' graphics card... i'd be surprized if theres anyone out there playing eve who can't afford that! at least there are 15$ monthly subscription fees... u finance your account by isk? the go buy 2 PLEX and trade them in forum for a new graphics card that supports the 'new' shader, i'm pretty shure there will be someone willing to trade :)
for the 'hope not to be out in a year' part i'll take a look into my magic mirror... aaah! it sais by the time ccp changes eve onlines minimum graphic requirements again the graphics cards to support it will be 20$ maximum...
;)
regards thrym
You can't change the graphics card in a laptop if its built onto the board. e.g. with the intel GMA900 chips.
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Pammie Anderson
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Posted - 2009.01.21 07:42:00 -
[167]
Can we have a wireframe and market version of Eve please with no graphics at all?
Trade, Mining and multiple clients |
Shereza
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Posted - 2009.01.21 08:02:00 -
[168]
Something more important than the "Power of two" campaign to look at when considering that CCP wants multiple account users is the simple fact that despite not "officially" supporting multiple accounts they still put in fixes in one of the recent patches to boost dual client performance.
That aside, I'd be up for a wire-frame graphics option. That was one of the coolest features when playing MechWarrior 2. Nevermind the fact that it also made the game *much* more playable, it looked awesome. |
Mrs Yutty
Janeway's Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.21 08:02:00 -
[169]
This is a great decision. I have only just recently brought a Radeon Graphic card that can also run 4.0 shader. However on playing eve If I try running it on shader 3.0 it crashes my PC on a hourly basis. ive tried every thing and its some problem that only happens with eve. So until it is sorted forcing Radeon users to crash on a hourly basis is not really a valid option. So im stuck with shader 2.0 for the forseeable future. I noticed im not the only one looking at this discussion thread.
I quote" "Can you please fix the problems with Premium graphics and ATI cards before discontinuing the Classic graphics?" |
Calranthe
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Posted - 2009.01.21 08:12:00 -
[170]
I am very happy about this and btw a desktop capable of running the premium client can be put together (minus mouse/keyboard/monitor) for ú200 |
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Calranthe
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Posted - 2009.01.21 08:14:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Mrs Yutty This is a great decision. I have only just recently brought a Radeon Graphic card that can also run 4.0 shader. However on playing eve If I try running it on shader 3.0 it crashes my PC on a hourly basis. ive tried every thing and its some problem that only happens with eve. So until it is sorted forcing Radeon users to crash on a hourly basis is not really a valid option. So im stuck with shader 2.0 for the forseeable future. I noticed im not the only one looking at this discussion thread.
I quote" "Can you please fix the problems with Premium graphics and ATI cards before discontinuing the Classic graphics?"
Sorry to double post but what problem, I have as my second pc a mitac laptop with an ati 1600 256mb card and haven't seen any problems with the premium client. |
Shereza
|
Posted - 2009.01.21 09:55:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Mrs Yutty This is a great decision. I have only just recently brought a Radeon Graphic card that can also run 4.0 shader. However on playing eve If I try running it on shader 3.0 it crashes my PC on a hourly basis. ive tried every thing and its some problem that only happens with eve. So until it is sorted forcing Radeon users to crash on a hourly basis is not really a valid option. So im stuck with shader 2.0 for the forseeable future. I noticed im not the only one looking at this discussion thread.
I quote" "Can you please fix the problems with Premium graphics and ATI cards before discontinuing the Classic graphics?"
For the sake of confirmation, you have played other games on your machine that use Shader 3.0 and they did not crash, correct? And the crashing with EVE is just a program crash and not a complete system crash, correct?
I had a problem last year where my machine would crash, BSOD style of badly, whenever I ran games that used a specific Shader version, 2.0 I believe. 1.1 and 3.0 games ran fine, but 2.0 games like Hellgate London and Titan Quest gave me flashbacks to DOS. This problem was likely the result of ATI drivers becoming corrupt and their installation/uninstallation software being ****-poor and not properly deleting and/or overwriting driver files thus leaving the damaged files intact between a couple of reinstalls. I eventually solved it by installing Omega Radeon drivers and when I next installed ATI Radeon drivers the problem was no longer there. |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2009.01.21 10:51:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Mara Rinn CCP can remove the need for SM3.0 by providing an option to render EVE using wireframe or untextured, gaussian shaded polygons. Think of "Battlezone" or "Elite"
It's all about the APIs, not prettiness.
|
Franga
Gristle Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 11:14:00 -
[174]
As promised:
MOAR DEV BLOGS |
CyberGh0st
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.01.21 11:29:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Lisaveta Ivanovna I'm not sure about what to think about these changes yet, however I do have a suggestion which may or may not have been suggested many times:
-Some kind of chat, market, skill changing, map client. Make it a text-based terminal if you have to, but something to help the eve junkies log into their world remotely to some degree. (by remotely, I mean away from our home 'Control Center')
My main beef here is with this l337 eve community who troll every CCP update with "Fail" as if this were a bloody YouTube video. It seems that most of the people who threatened to quit playing EVE when they said they were going to in a juvenile attempt to get CCP to change their mind (as if anyone cares), are right back here at the next update pitching the same fit every subsequent update later. EVE is the only mmo I'd ever seriously consider playing because no other mmo even grazes the sheer amount of complexity and depth that EVE has. On top of that, EVE is the ultimate dynamic environment. CCP has always been adding, removing and modifying mass amounts of critical content to the game to even the fields, provide more stimulation and even dimentions to the game. Every change that has come along has been met with SO much opposition in these forums and in-game discussions, but yet for the most part, EVE continues to maintain a huge group of long-time loyal subscribers who continue playing it despite their pre-pubescent ways of showing disapproval. IMHO, I see ccp as artists who don't compromise a 'good-idea' with what the consumer says he wants. They make their game exactly the way they see it in their minds, and the consumers flock to it because it surpasses their original expectations. So even though I may never get the dual-client thing down, and I may need to spend $20 on a new video card for my old computer on ebay, I will be enjoying the update like most of you.
Well said !
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Lord Timelord
Point of No Return
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Posted - 2009.01.21 11:34:00 -
[176]
I am glad that you are going to keep Shader 2.0 compatibility for the foreseeable future. I can continue to run my 2nd account on my laptop!
When you eventually make the switch to Shader 3.0 or better... the laptop will have to be replaced. However I now know about this forehand, which will give me considerable time to save my cash for a better laptop. Looks like any of us that will be upgrading their laptops will have to get one that can do Shader 4.0, which will no doubt cost some serious cash.
Time to start researching those newer 'modular' laptops where you build them yourself and can switch video card modules down the road as needed! |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2009.01.21 11:34:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Axium Cog Personally the Shader3 would kill me.
Originally by: AonChilo I plan to upgrade after Windows 7 is released. For now I have WinXP with a SM v2.0b card: ATI Radeon X800 Pro 256mb RAM. This card is very sufficient to run my computer. Of course I can always temporarily cancel my game subscription of CCP cannot wait for Win 7 to release.
You're missing the point of the dev blog. Your PC will continue to run the EVE client, because you have Shader Model 2 support. They are not dropping SM2 support.
Originally by: Shereza It's been over a year since the last Omega ATI drivers were released and so much can change in a year that I'm questioning using them, but when Premium graphics is so horribly unstable with the official drivers from ATI I'm not sure what to do except ask that these issues be removed from the Premium graphics engine before you phase out the Classic engine.
It may be small comfort, but the multinational software firm I work with is even partnered with Nvidia and ATI, along with the likes of Microsoft, and we can rarely get ATI or Nvidia to a) admit their drivers have bugs and b) fix the darned things. It's also quite difficult to work around driver bugs when you're using a higher level API from OpenGL or Microsoft that (deliberately) obscures the low-level driver accesses. I have sympathy for both your and CCP's positions.
The real 'solution' is for everyone having issues that are clearly linked to drivers to repeatedly bug the hell out of ATI/Nvidia, whether directly or indirectly via the programs that crash. I've always found it ironic that no matter what card I choose, I just know from our own crash reports at work that something somewhere won't work properly with it. |
CyberGh0st
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
|
Posted - 2009.01.21 11:36:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Hell March Edited by: Hell March on 20/01/2009 12:14:57 So! How am I supposed to run 5 clients from my old crap rig eh? x300 ati card and 1.5 gigs of ram and a 2.8 gig processor. Yes I do run 5 clients at the same time. Not fun when you get disconnected or crash by any means. Not to mention I have to start all the clients before actaully logging in each charecter or again I crash. So this beeing the case how much can I actaully strip eve down graphically? No I am not to well concerned with eye candy. I play games that are well past there age. Some of them go back 10 or even 15 years. Also how is this going to effect me running say just 1 client during large scale battles? If I cant run at least 4 clients at the same time then there goes a large source of my income which really kills my desire to even play. Most of the peple I am sure you read use multible accounts. Are we going to get alot of options to strip downt he graphics and i dont mean just hitting check marks. I used to play half life mods where I woudl run in 400x300 ona pentium 2 and from the games console I could tone down the texturing size to practailly nothing and I did to turning preety much all graphical features off. THing is I could still kill you just as easily even though my crosshair would take up half the screen LOL.
Basiclly I want to have as many options as absolutely possible to save on graphics cpu and any other system resource that I possibly can.
Also if you really consider most of the people complaining about the graphics switch are the 1's runnign multible clients such as myself
lol, if you run 5 clients you can afford an upgrade :p
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.01.21 11:39:00 -
[179]
Originally by: AonChilo I plan to upgrade after Windows 7 is released. For now I have WinXP with a SM v2.0b card: ATI Radeon X800 Pro 256mb RAM. This card is very sufficient to run my computer. Of course I can always temporarily cancel my game subscription of CCP cannot wait for Win 7 to release.
Read the blog ... your card will do fine
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John plissken
Caldari Terminal Logic NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2009.01.21 12:02:00 -
[180]
are there any near future plans for the support of pixel shader 4.0 / 4.1? while it is respectful to think of the people with older pc's, & make sure they have the capability to run eve, it seems a shame that the people with decent pc's have to take a step down from their gpu's true potential. almost seems like the people with older pc's are holding eve back.
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Suga H
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.21 12:44:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Suga H on 21/01/2009 12:46:22 Did you guys not read the dev blog? They're not requiring sm3. Just sm2. If you don't have a computer that supports sm2, then you should upgrade. sm2 is not perfectly good and capable of running everything. It's getting quite old, actually. There's plenty of games that've come out that can't be run on sm2, and plenty that are terribly downgraded for it. If you're really still on sm1, I'd wonder what other games you can even play. If you're too tight on money, then you shouldn't be spending it on a game. If you've got multiple accounts, then you should be able to save up enough money for a cheap sm2 upgrade and be set for a year or so, with some money management. And yes, computers do go obsolete within a couple years, that's just the way technology works. If you're running an ancient machine, you should EXPECT not to be able to play new, or updated games. And as a laptop user, you should already know that the gaming performance is going to come at a higher cost compared to a desktop's gaming performance. And if you're worried about having enough money to survive.. why are paying for games?
Also.. CCP.. You guys working on skill queues, or a remote client with skill, market, and chat access yet? For those that won't be able to continue playing.. a subscription refund would probably be a bit difficult to do. What about a subscription pause option? Have it simply pause the subscription count down, pause the skill training, etc. Effectively be like cancelling an account instantly, but saving the credit left on the account for later use after re-activation. Of course you could put limitations on it so that it couldn't be abused. |
PJRiddick
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Posted - 2009.01.21 13:14:00 -
[182]
Well said my friend,.....and i do agree whole heartedly on the pausing aspect of it too. >R< |
Essack Leadae
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:04:00 -
[183]
Edited by: Essack Leadae on 21/01/2009 14:04:41
Quote: If you're too tight on money, then you shouldn't be spending it on a game.
Yeah, if you are too tight on money, you shouldn't try to have same one leisure, you have better things to do... Just survive and shut up.
More seriously, it is annoying to read this **** all the time.
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Aragote
Gallente Spricer
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Posted - 2009.01.21 15:39:00 -
[184]
Originally by: AonChilo I plan to upgrade after Windows 7 is released. For now I have WinXP with a SM v2.0b card: ATI Radeon X800 Pro 256mb RAM. This card is very sufficient to run my computer. Of course I can always temporarily cancel my game subscription of CCP cannot wait for Win 7 to release.
Aon please read the dev blog in question before you post, they wont be requiring sm3 support for a while so your x800 radeon will still work with eve.
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Martin Dos
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Posted - 2009.01.21 15:47:00 -
[185]
I have a suggestion for the benefit of the non-techincal players:
Put something in the client that checks what the client can handle (whether it's SM1, SM2, SM3, or any other hardware thing you plan to have affect minimum requirements sometime) and report to the user on the login screen a warning if their hardware is not up to running the expanion.
Distribute this well before changing the graphics requirements so that those who need to can order new cards far enough in advance.
It won't completely prevent problems, but it will certainly cut down on the number of surprised (and therefor angry) customers. Besides, it'd be a whole lot easier to tell my parents to update the client on their old machine before next I visit them and tell me if there is any big red warning text, than to talk them through checking what their onboard graphics supports.
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Lexandrius Megens
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:13:00 -
[186]
Quote:
On March 10th, after the Apocrypha expansion, having a graphics card that supports ShaderModel 2 will be the minimum to run EVE. This means GeForce FX (5 series) or ATI R300 (9500, x300) or compatible. EVE Classic will be replaced with EVE Premium Lite. There are no plans to change the specifications further this year.
Great so both my notebook and my PC wont be able to run eve after this crap update. WTF? Great work CCP!
I got a AMD 2600XP with G-force 4 Ti 4600 128MB and 1GB ram as system and i got a P4 HT 3.2 Ghz with 1GB ram and a Ati 9700 mobile GFX card and both work perfect with eve classic atm.. now i see that both systems are unable to run eve after march ? WTF man!
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DarkAstoria
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:14:00 -
[187]
Thank you! Thank you! I was one of the ones that runs both Premium and Classic on different machines, one Shader 3 and one shader 2. Was really upset at the prospect of not being able to play on business trips/on the couch with the girlfriend.
Also, really new to the game, and was considering getting a second account, but (among several other factors) was wondering about the Devs/Support for this game, since that has made a huge difference as to which games I have stuck with in the past (CoX - good - still sub'd, RGTR - bad - cancel'd).
So in sum, really appreciate the Devs listening and keeping shader 2.0, will add an account soon.
Also, in case you are keeping tabs in these fora for future dev focus. I am in the 'meh shiny graphics' camp. I like the complexity and variety in EVE, Classic looks great already, though I can run premium with high framerate on the desktop with full settings, I don't because it will NEVER lag on Classic, yeah looks a little better on Prem, but the half to 1 second of lag I occassionally get in premium is not worth it.
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Lexandrius Megens
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:15:00 -
[188]
Quote: We estimate that about 95% of all subscribers currently have hardware that is SM2 compatible. We further predict that in q4 this year over 97% of subscribers will have SM3 capable hardware. This means that an estimate of anywhere from 3%-5% of current subscribers would have to update their computers or graphics cards to be able to continue playing.
Omfg.. you GUESS that? Do your research before stating that kind of thing and taking action redering thousands of computers useless. |
Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:39:00 -
[189]
Originally by: lolie Hi CCP
Is the premium client officialy supported on Linux ?
This is my concern. My Linux machine is good enough to play classic. My uber main PC died a horrible short-circuit/smoke everywhere death a few weeks ago so I bought a laptop on sale. It's barely good enough to play on premium, but it works.
They said they had indications of how many people could play on premium, yet I wonder if that was checked before or after my quad core 4G ram uber video card died and if it also logged I have a laptop and old pc running Linux now.
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T Op
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:45:00 -
[190]
although i am capable of running premium, (nvidia 6 series) i choose to run classic... and still degrade the graphics to the lowest possible settings.
like a lot of eve players, i fly camera so far out, i wouldn't know where my ship was if it wasn't always centered in the screen...
there was a time that i did ogle all the pretty ships flying around in local space... then that aspect of the game became trivial, as the richness of the game started to unfold. the only time i actually see the ship i'm flying is in-station... and that is a static environment.
i don't want to burst the bubbles of the graphics department, cause i know some of the work that goes into 3d rendering, but i would choose to lose the 'premium' content.
why not give us a classic 'heavy' version instead, for those that consider high-end graphics important...that way, the SM2/SM3 debate would be moot.
no matter which graphics format you finally choose, i will be flying at 'minimum' resolutions... because performance is my priority.
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Axium Cog
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Posted - 2009.01.21 17:15:00 -
[191]
Edited by: Axium Cog on 21/01/2009 17:19:56
Originally by: Thrymren
Originally by: Axium Cog Personally the Shader3 would kill me. I fall into the laptop group and while I can support Shader2 the 3 upgrade would bump me from Eve permanently. Im a college student and I cant just upgrade on a whim to continue playing a game. Its my opinion that there should be a distinct difference between light and premium. It allows a window for more players those that want the eye candy can always upgrade to the premium package, and those that simply dont want a graphics intensive version or cant afford it can play around with the light. Why alienate players simply because they cant afford to buy a new computer?
Here's to hoping i dont get forced out in a year due to sysreq changes.
oh my... we aretalking about shader2! if u do have a computer that supports any agp/pcie graphics cards go into a store and spend 20$ on a 'new' graphics card... i'd be surprized if theres anyone out there playing eve who can't afford that! at least there are 15$ monthly subscription fees... u finance your account by isk? the go buy 2 PLEX and trade them in forum for a new graphics card that supports the 'new' shader, i'm pretty shure there will be someone willing to trade :)
for the 'hope not to be out in a year' part i'll take a look into my magic mirror... aaah! it sais by the time ccp changes eve onlines minimum graphic requirements again the graphics cards to support it will be 20$ maximum...
;)
regards thrym
Youre forgetting that laptops cant be upgraded. My boards are fully integrated so unless you built the laptop yourself you have to buy a completely new one to upgrade to a new graphics card. Trust me ive looked into it you have no idea how many games i cant play because of my graphics card. So my point still stands.
Oh... and try reading the post before you reply to it... i said the debated Shader3 requirement in a year would bump me from the game, not the Shader2 coming in a few months...and not everyone is to the point of playing indefinitely from isk farming.
You assume too much my friend |
Hisomi
Gallente Suicidal Intentions Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2009.01.21 17:39:00 -
[192]
Originally by: John plissken are there any near future plans for the support of pixel shader 4.0 / 4.1? while it is respectful to think of the people with older pc's, & make sure they have the capability to run eve, it seems a shame that the people with decent pc's have to take a step down from their gpu's true potential. almost seems like the people with older pc's are holding eve back.
True... That sure would be a big step forward again, just like Trinity ;)
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Lexandrius Megens
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Posted - 2009.01.21 17:43:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Lexandrius Megens on 21/01/2009 17:45:22
Originally by: Mika Meroko Edited by: Mika Meroko on 19/01/2009 23:45:54 You just eliminated 5/8 of my friends who are playing eve with this change in march... all of them if you discontinue shader 2.0 support.
and for the record:
they are not upgrading computers just for a game... since they are all adults with families and other priorities... and dont see point in forking over 300 dollars for a game they already pay 30 dollars plus (husband and wife teams 2 accounts min per household) to play.
SIGNED
Computers work fine on classic content.. why force everyone to go this premium thing... its the same as MS forcing everyone over to go to vista asap... forget it wont do it! Got other interests then to upgrade 2 new systems for a game called eve... lolz |
DarthJesseBob
Sicarri Covenant Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.21 17:50:00 -
[194]
While MMORG's are generally thought to be for the hardcore gamer, it doesn't necessarily follow that we all have hardcore gamer PC's.
While the move to Shader Model 2.0 is probably at the right time, I am still running an FX5200 and i'd imagine a lot of other people will struggle if Shader 3.0 is the Minimum.
To ostracise those who can't keep up with the relentless pace of development when they may have already invested hundreds of Euros into the game would be grossly unfair given the relatively small benefits of streamlined development for other players.
I hope CCP hold back on this for several years! |
Gabrielle Rammaninov
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:04:00 -
[195]
Jesus Christ people... what's the big fuss about this, if you can affort paying for 2-3 accounts , or even if you can afford to monthly pay just to play a game i really don't think that you can't afford a decent gcard. Plus 90 to 95% of gamers really invest in their PC's. Why should CCP have a draw back in the game graphics evolution. What the hell, for example, me, i live in...we can say poorer country, i have a stupid months pay of 600EUR and i could afford to buy me a NVidia 9800GTX+ 2 months ago, and a core 2 duo pc with 4gb ddr2 one year ago... so stop moaning... the world evolves even if you want it to or not.
Cheers all you happy capsuleers :) Gab.
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Brzhk
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:22:00 -
[196]
does that mean the linux client will be upgraded to premium or will linux support stop ? :( :(
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Commander Crumple
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:29:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Lexandrius Megens
SIGNED
Computers work fine on classic content.. why force everyone to go this premium thing... its the same as MS forcing everyone over to go to vista asap... forget it wont do it! Got other interests then to upgrade 2 new systems for a game called eve... lolz
Heh heh heh Lex if your "New" computers suck that much then I'm quite happy to sell you a brand spanking new one on the market with the latest Shader Model 2! I'll do you a deal since you need something that will run eve, yours for just 1500 quid. Obviously I'm giving you a significant discount on the latest hardware here because your an eve dude so please get in touch
Oh and to those asking for a wireframe edition, I can source an original BBC Basic micro with Elite on it if you like. Yours for only 3,000 and your i.p. address since you're the sort of folks who love to keep using that old insecure software too.
I also have a special on software that will detect any Dev post on the forums and immediately post "Rabble Rabble Rabble" thereby saving you the trouble, I can probably engineer it to give you a wireframe forum or indeed some kind of early unix interface.
I can also supply a Hoop, great for Hula-ing, and a Stick which I understand is good for playing stick. Both these support all shader models and can be played even during downtime!
I can probably find some sabots laying around somewhere if any luddites are that desperate to find something to do. |
Erim Solfara
Amarr House of Solfara
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:32:00 -
[198]
Shame the old models are going to expire then, they still look more like massive space ships than the premium graphics, there's no sense of scale to the new models and textures, everything looks like frigates, and there's no weathering on anything, it's TOO shiny!
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Akina Abo
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:49:00 -
[199]
Originally by: CyberGh0st
Originally by: Lisaveta Ivanovna I'm not sure about what to think about these changes yet, however I do have a suggestion which may or may not have been suggested many times:
-Some kind of chat, market, skill changing, map client. Make it a text-based terminal if you have to, but something to help the eve junkies log into their world remotely to some degree. (by remotely, I mean away from our home 'Control Center')
My main beef here is with this l337 eve community who troll every CCP update with "Fail" as if this were a bloody YouTube video. It seems that most of the people who threatened to quit playing EVE when they said they were going to in a juvenile attempt to get CCP to change their mind (as if anyone cares), are right back here at the next update pitching the same fit every subsequent update later. EVE is the only mmo I'd ever seriously consider playing because no other mmo even grazes the sheer amount of complexity and depth that EVE has. On top of that, EVE is the ultimate dynamic environment. CCP has always been adding, removing and modifying mass amounts of critical content to the game to even the fields, provide more stimulation and even dimentions to the game. Every change that has come along has been met with SO much opposition in these forums and in-game discussions, but yet for the most part, EVE continues to maintain a huge group of long-time loyal subscribers who continue playing it despite their pre-pubescent ways of showing disapproval. IMHO, I see ccp as artists who don't compromise a 'good-idea' with what the consumer says he wants. They make their game exactly the way they see it in their minds, and the consumers flock to it because it surpasses their original expectations. So even though I may never get the dual-client thing down, and I may need to spend $20 on a new video card for my old computer on ebay, I will be enjoying the update like most of you.
Well said !
I agree with the statements,,,, This game is for all not just a small group of people that want it there way. I just spent some $$$ for a new grapics card for my PC and know that it will be a benefit in the long run as other games upgrade to compete for the market shares. Also it will not just be games it is also the DirectX components that have been and will be added in the future (directx 10 in a short time). |
CyberGh0st
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.01.21 21:29:00 -
[200]
When the classic client is removed, will you then finally support AA on the premium client?!
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Burger2
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.21 21:31:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Grigori Black So how do you check to see if your computer runs Shader Model 2?
download gpu-z and check gpu-z |
Burger2
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.21 21:38:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Soi Mala As someone suggested in a previous thread, a small trial client to render a scene inside station or something would be great for people to test compatibility/performance.
Also, i'm glad you guys have delayed the SM3 thing, i'l still be upgrading soon anyway, just now i don't feel anyone twisting my arm. :P
I like that idea with a small client to test the preformance of the computers cpu and gfx card. |
CloseLook
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Posted - 2009.01.21 21:51:00 -
[203]
Do not know yet, but depending on premium lite specs I'l decide if I upgrade (maybe new pc) or stop playing eve.
Fiew things to say about these wil not say them now, here.
o7
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Lexandrius Megens
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Posted - 2009.01.21 22:01:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Commander Crumple
Originally by: Lexandrius Megens
SIGNED
Computers work fine on classic content.. why force everyone to go this premium thing... its the same as MS forcing everyone over to go to vista asap... forget it wont do it! Got other interests then to upgrade 2 new systems for a game called eve... lolz
Heh heh heh Lex if your "New" computers suck that much then I'm quite happy to sell you a brand spanking new one on the market with the latest Shader Model 2! I'll do you a deal since you need something that will run eve, yours for just 1500 quid. Obviously I'm giving you a significant discount on the latest hardware here because your an eve dude so please get in touch
READ !
Who sayd something about new computers? Its a principle we are talking about. Its not only me but lots of players that now have to buy new comps if they want to keep up with this shader 2 crap. They are FORCED to upgrade... while with this classic version we can have a choice, now with this primium light we are forced! Thats what this is about.
The rest of ur post i dont give a ****. |
Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.01.21 22:06:00 -
[205]
Still got no idea if I'll be able to play anymore...
My hardware supports what's needed, saphirre 3850, however since I never ever hear back when you file a bug report, I have no way of knowing if and when you guys can figure out why my computer can only run classic and can't run premium despite having the right hardware.
Is premium lite going to be enough different from premium that it will no longer trigger the instacrash the moment you try to run the game in that mode?
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Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2009.01.21 22:19:00 -
[206]
1st off, I fully support this decision by CCP.
Desktop users: anyone running a pre-SM2 card really has no business complaining because they can't run a game - the FX-series (5-series) Geforce cards which support SM2 were released in 2003 - desktop users can obtain an AGP FX5200 in the UK from Aria for the princely sum of ú21.56 inc. VAT, if you have a PCI-E slot then you can get a SM4.0 card for less than a fiver more! (if you only have PCI slots then Scan have a SM3.0 card for you at ú36.23 Inc VAT).
Laptop users: the only Intel graphics Chipsets which support SM2.0 are the GMA 950, 3000 and 3100, The X3000 Supports SM3.0 & the X3100 upwards support SM4.0 - check your device manager or run DXDiag to check what's in your machine - if it's an Intel 845 or 815 then you're out of luck.
If the whiners on this thread were to be listened to, we'd still be playing Doom on 386's (or even Elite on BBC model B's/Sinclair Sprctrums) - Technology moves on and so do the expectations of gamers, if Eve is to attract new "victims for the pirates"/players (delete as applicable) then it needs to look like a modern game - not one that's stuck 11 years in the past.
TL/DR? - you can upgrade a desktop for the price of 2 monthly subs payments no matter how obsolete the slots are on the motherboard - laptops are obviously another issue but try this: take an 18-month break (assuming 1 account is taken "offline") and save up your sub money - you'll find that you can probably afford a laptop like this & install your current copy of XP on it. |
Shereza
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Posted - 2009.01.21 23:10:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Gabrielle Rammaninov Jesus Christ people... what's the big fuss about this, if you can affort paying for 2-3 accounts , or even if you can afford to monthly pay just to play a game i really don't think that you can't afford a decent gcard.
Let's think about this for a moment. I spend $45/month on EVE. A card like the one I eBay'd a few months ago would cost about $90 new, minimum, possibly more since it's AGP which isn't being made anymore and therefore price will go up as stock goes down. I've seen SDRAM and EDO cost 10-20x as much as DDR2 after all.
So let's look at it logically. Player A is playing on an SM1 card, or let's say SM2 if/when CCP makes SM3 mandatory, and can't afford the $500+ to get a new machine that supports PCI-E and all the necessaries to go with it so just wants to upgrade the card. They also pay what I do which means they'll have to stop playing for 2 months to afford to buy a new card.
Let's say player B is also on the same tight budget as me and Player A but can only afford one account. It'll take them 6 months by which time that $90 card might be $80 or might be $100.
Do you really expect players on limited budgets to either stop playing the game for months in order to play it again due to "upgrades" or to, I don't know, pick up a second job? Maybe sell their body to medical research?
Originally by: Gabrielle Rammaninov Plus 90 to 95% of gamers really invest in their PC's. Why should CCP have a draw back in the game graphics evolution. What the hell, for example, me, i live in...we can say poorer country, i have a stupid months pay of 600EUR and i could afford to buy me a NVidia 9800GTX+ 2 months ago, and a core 2 duo pc with 4gb ddr2 one year ago... so stop moaning... the world evolves even if you want it to or not.
Not to belittle your low income, and unless it's a 2.0 multiplier going from Euros to dollars it's lower than the minimum wage where I live, but if your cost of living is low too then you've got the same percentage of disposable income as many others who have a higher income with a higher cost of living. IOW, posting your income alone is almost pointless.
That aside, as you said, there was a 10 month gap between the computer purchase and the video card. Was it because you didn't need it or because it took you 10 months to afford it?
I ask because if it took you 10 months to save the money to buy the card it just goes to reinforce my point about people on limited budgets having to consider quitting EVE for months at a stretch just to be able to buy a card to play it again.
The world evolves, and I've no problem with that, however if the difference between an SM3 and an SM2 graphics client is so much smaller than the difference between Premium and Classic why can't CCP support SM1, 2, and 3 and then when 4 becomes fully mainstream, or when CCP decides to support it, bring in SM4 support, take a poll, and then, probably, phase out SM1 support.
Removing the Classic client, outside of the fact that it is currently the most stable and bug-free graphics engine of the two, is a fine move, but unless SM1 is radically different from SM2 and 3 (in the same fashion that AGP2 was radically different from AGP4 and 8 in terms of power supply/requirements) I'm not sure why "Premium Lite" is using SM2 for its minimum and not SM1.
Of course all this would be solved by a simple wire-frame client ala Mechwarrior 2 so...
Any rate, I'm a very hardcore gamer, I put a minimum of 60 hours/week into various games, on-line and off-line, but I simply cannot afford to "really invest in (my) PC." I still, however, cannot afford to upgrade my computer very often. I've had the same Gigabyte G7-VAXP motherboard for over 5 years now, one stick of RAM almost as long, and a hard drive for longer.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not being obstructionist because my machine's too outdated, my x1650 supports SM3, but swapping Classic for SM2 bugs me, a lot. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2009.01.21 23:22:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Elysarian on 21/01/2009 23:24:15
Originally by: Shereza
Let's think about this for a moment. I spend $45/month on EVE. A card like the one I eBay'd a few months ago would cost about $90 new, minimum, possibly more since it's AGP which isn't being made anymore and therefore price will go up as stock goes down. I've seen SDRAM and EDO cost 10-20x as much as DDR2 after all.
I take it you failed to read my post there where I quoted prices for SM2.0 upwards gfx cards for all 3 slot types (PCI, AGP and PCI-E)?
*sigh*
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Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.01.22 01:09:00 -
[209]
Edited by: Thresh Avery on 22/01/2009 01:12:33
Okay, firstly thanks CCP for saying you won't make ShaderModel 3.0 the minimum come Winter 2009. However i am very concerned about the "for the moment" part, which suggests you're going to do it anyway at some point.
Remember, this is a game where you cannot afford to alienate even 0.1% of your clientbase. These people are paying customers and deserve the right to play the game without being forced to upgrade their hardware. And i speak as a ShaderModel 4.0 user!
Anyway, what i mainly wanted to say was that i feel the fact you're discontinuing the classic client is a big mistake, although i suspect it's too late to changes your collective mind. I can run the premium version on my laptop (i'm an ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2400 user) yet i genuinely experience slow-response and general lag when i'm undocked alone. Imagine how i would survive in a 20 man engagement, or worse still a fleet battle. This is a very real prospect for me too, as i play the game for these reasons specifically!
So what i'm saying is, forcing the players to use the premium graphics because they are capable, doesn't mean it's the right move. No matter how you dress it up, "premium lite" is still premium graphics and it's going to really ruin the enjoyment and actual whole experience of the game for laptop users.
This isn't a rhetorical question, but is there any chance you can convince me that premium lite won't be that much more laggy to use than the current classic client? And the two will be quite comparable in performance? |
Koyama Ise
Caldari Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
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Posted - 2009.01.22 01:39:00 -
[210]
Edited by: Koyama Ise on 22/01/2009 01:39:15
Originally by: Thresh Avery
Okay, firstly thanks CCP for saying you won't make ShaderModel 3.0 the minimum come Winter 2009. However i am very concerned about the "for the moment" part, which suggests you're going to do it anyway at some point.
Well assuming EVE (Not saying that it will or won't) lives this long there will be a point where it's no longer necessary or viable to retain the SM 2.0 compatibility. Which based on the removal of SM 1 compatibility could be after SM 5 has been out for a while. Though based on the speed now in which the Shader Models are upgraded could possibly be when or if SM 6/7 come into existence. Either that or when we all move from rasterization to ray-tracing and no longer need pixel shaders. All of this is also assuming these new technologies are actually used in the end as well. --- Trolling a forum near you.
Originally by: rValdez5987 I dont like your sig. It fills me with rage.
I want it removed. Reported.
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Dorh Uemh
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Posted - 2009.01.22 05:05:00 -
[211]
CCP made the right choice.
I can't understand why ppl are still complaining about this new requirement. Anyone with 2 braincells rubbing together knows that any PC you buy will be out of date within a few years.
I save a few bucks a week and toss it into my savings account and earmark it for future PC upgrades. After 1 year I have enough for minor changes like video card or new stick of RAM. If I don't spend anything on my PC for 3 years I usually end up with more than $500 for PC upgrades or complete replacement. If I need to use that money for emergencies/bills/etc then EVE is not a necessity that I would or could pay for.
If you don't have the funds to upgrade a 6+ year old machine then what the hell have you been wasting your money on? Did you think that if you ignored it the problem would just go away?
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MrDover
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Posted - 2009.01.22 05:14:00 -
[212]
Thank you CCP! I believe it was a good decision for the time being.
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Gargamell Smurf
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Posted - 2009.01.22 07:12:00 -
[213]
Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 22/01/2009 07:18:16 Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 22/01/2009 07:13:16
Quote: ...-We won't stop there - we are providing two flavors of ShaderModel 2.0 compatible shaders, currently named "lo" and "hi". What does this mean? It means that framerate enthusiasts can get even more performance when running under ShaderModel 2.0. We will also allow people to select any ShaderModel below what their hardware supports - thus allowing players to trade quality for performance and vice versa.-...
...-1. We can use the same assets as Premium. Admittedly people will most likely choose to run with textures that have lower resolution as well, but these will simply be downsampled (lower resolution mipmaps) from the existing Premium textures. Some textures will also be skipped entirely like, for instance, normal maps-...
This is a HUGE step in the right direction! Finally! Now continue along with the concept of 'allowing players to trade quality for performance'. Take it even farther. I want FPS! I want those internet-spaceships to look like old 8 bit Nintendo! Give me frame rates and lightning fast load times! thank you.
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
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Posted - 2009.01.22 07:20:00 -
[214]
Of course, people who complain about CCP losing subs completely ignore the overhead costs of having to build the same assets for 2 different engines, essentially.
As i see it, they had a choice of either building models, textures and all that for 2 different engines and keep a few more subs, or focus on one engine and lose some subs. It cost them less to focus on one engine and lose some subs, than to try and maintain 2 engines for the minority that couldn't run the newer one.
Simple business, really. Also, focusing on one engine has the advantage of being able to push out more and better content, because they don't have to mind 2 engines anymore - Which in turn means keeping up with the times, and being able to market the game to more people who'd make up for the people who couldn't play anymore.
And lastly, desktop users who cannot afford to upgrade to an SM2 card have no right to whine about this change. If you cannot afford the $50 it costs to upgrade, why are you playing a monthly subscription computer game?
Laptop users should understand that the game can't remain stagnant. MMO's which do not update themselves die off, or at best, have a sharp drop of subs down to a low, stagnant level. Whether you like it or not, you're in a very small minority that doesn't have or can afford the hardware to play SM2+ games.
As a thought.... People would be whining about this change, even if it was announced 5 years beforehand. This is a videogame. What's the harm of not being able to play this particular one anymore?
EVE History Wiki
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CloseLook
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Posted - 2009.01.22 09:10:00 -
[215]
I play on a p4 2.6ghz with 1gb ddr and a 256mb Ati radeon 9250 on agp.
So for me it's not 50$ to upgrade the computer. To play premium I'l need totally new hardware wich donno If I can get it from under 500eu (like cheapest possible to make it work wich would mean 10/20 fps tops and that's when you mine alone in the system, dont wanna go for large fleets of 400vs400 that we started to have).
To take a brake from eve to go work second job so I can get a new pc to get back in the game... yeah right wait for me ccp till I get back, but dont hold your breath.
As for the aford for accounts and not 50$ to upgrade thing. Yeah I have 2 accounts but I dont pay them with cash I pay them with etc's bought with isk, (wich ccp already make shure I dont enjoi by taking out the 90day ones btw).
Overall, eves power so far stood in the comunity and social interaction, people (like me) been ready to play a crap graphics game just to be with those they came to be friends with, either to go with them in fleets or other pvp combat actions or just to complete there tasks they choose to have in there corporation/alliance.
Moveng to premium will reach for those that seek graphics and fx so thats another kind of market so to speak.
So I kindof understand CCP going for max profit (less work, more dudes getting in than out...etc) in the end that's what it's all about isnt it?
Yeah eve will look better yeah maybe more will get in it than out, in the end that's the gamble I think ccp is ready to take and most prolly will win. |
Miraqu
Caldari Amarrian Heavy Industries German Wing
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Posted - 2009.01.22 09:25:00 -
[216]
I think it's basically the right choice. My Laptop can do SM2 so I still keep the ability to log in from a hotel to change skills.
Just hope that CCP will not break wine compatibility with the new client since I have long given up to wait for anyone at transgaming to get a halfway eve client done.
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Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2009.01.22 10:28:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Elysarian on 22/01/2009 10:28:16
Originally by: CloseLook I play on a p4 2.6ghz with 1gb ddr and a 256mb Ati radeon 9250 on agp.
So for me it's not 50$ to upgrade the computer. To play premium I'l need totally new hardware wich donno If I can get it from under 500eu (like cheapest possible to make it work wich would mean 10/20 fps tops and that's when you mine alone in the system, dont wanna go for large fleets of 400vs400 that we started to have).
I refer you to my post on page 7... factor in an extra 1Gig stick of RAM and you'd still be looking at a shade under $50 (at current rates) - leaving you with a PC that would be faster in general use as well as being capable of running Eve post-update.
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Midshipman
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.22 11:20:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Dentad
Originally by: Grigori Black So how do you check to see if your computer runs Shader Model 2?
Run utility http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/ Look in DirectX Support box.
I've got a laptop with a S3 Unichrome Pro IGP running on a VIA K8M800 IGP chipset. GPU-Z doesn't recognize this GPU. Anyone know what Shader Model it supports? S3 and VIA's websites don't offer any useful technical specs. --- *snip* - Not really an appropriate signature, please email mods@ccpgames if you have any questions - Tallan |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.01.22 11:23:00 -
[219]
At least you realized the mistake of trying to end shader 2.0 support. Probably a very good move. Look to perhaps 2011 to make that change if you need to.
Graphics to me don't matter though, I"m much more interested in gameplay. Some of my favorite single player games are over a decade old.
I'd much rather see the time spent fixing broken bits of the game and expanding gameplay rather than making it look pretty.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Deira Lenia
Carebear Evolution
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Posted - 2009.01.22 11:35:00 -
[220]
Well, i guess this is a good reason to quit and say goodbye then.
Much like others im not gonna stuff 400-500 bucks of upgrades in a computer just to play a game. Which is harldy playable half of the time anyway.
This ol ati radeon 9800 pro has been in service for 8 years now, and it will not get replaced anytime soon seeing games like WoW, WAR, L2 and even the new CoD works fine with it. Might not get more then 30 fps, but it works fine.
I dont get my computer for free Wrangler, too bad you do. -- Real men corpse tank Void Forums The Chaotic Order Forums |
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.01.22 11:48:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Deira Lenia Well, i guess this is a good reason to quit and say goodbye then.
Much like others im not gonna stuff 400-500 bucks of upgrades in a computer just to play a game. Which is harldy playable half of the time anyway.
This ol ati radeon 9800 pro has been in service for 8 years now, and it will not get replaced anytime soon seeing games like WoW, WAR, L2 and even the new CoD works fine with it. Might not get more then 30 fps, but it works fine.
I dont get my computer for free Wrangler, too bad you do.
You should be okay I think that supports Shader 2.0. So you should be okay for march and for the near term they've abandoned upgrade to min of shader 3.0. Like me you'll just have to use premium lite.
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Jarakun
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Posted - 2009.01.22 12:02:00 -
[222]
CCP, while I see you are trying hard to keep the game to not just a decent standard, but a high standard, by upgrading the minimum SM requirements, it seems you have given in to user demand, while not necessarily being a bad thing to adapt your plans to your players, sometimes it is necessary to not only reach the boundry of gaming graphics, but push past it. If in forcing your large group of customers to upgrade their minimum specs, you are then forcing the market to compete with you, which hopefully will cause greater advancements in the gaming industry. As most companies will try to make their games hit max on the systems they run on.
Keep SM2 for now guys but set a definate date for SM3 minimum, get those slackers up-to-date its for the good of us all.
Ps. Your going to need to change the monthly cost of the game guys, incase you hadn't noticed there is a global recession, the exchange rate is slowly making me pay more than I can afford, soon I may have to lose an account, maybe both if it gets much worse... and I hear it will.
Pps you ****ed us on the 1 skill per account. 1 skill per character!!!!
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Sonya Rayner
REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.01.22 12:12:00 -
[223]
It would be really nice of you, dear CCP developers, if you'd offered a bit more graphics options in settings. Like completely disabling some graphics features, that is not necessary to run client - give us ability to scale client performance in hardware resource-tight situations, like fleet battles atc. I'm already running powerpoint presentations in fleet fights with over 300 players on classic client, and my machine is SM3-compatible! Give us option to completely turn off pixel shaders, even if it leaves us with textures only. Tat'd be fine. For most of the fleet fights i bet many players would turn off shaders, textures and other effects completely, since we're dealing with overview and a few sprites (brackets, etc) scattered here and there anyway. That wouldn't require you to create more, if any at all, new graphic assets!
And i surely hope, that spare time from dealing with additional client model will be spent on performance tuning of the other.
____________________
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Naga Tokiba
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 12:23:00 -
[224]
Will onboard graphics cards be supported, for example the Intel GMA 4500 ? (It supports DirectX10 and Shader 4.0) |
T 2
Minmatar Tribal Core
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 13:47:00 -
[225]
I think that CCP made the correct choice. This is the only way to move the game graphics properly forward without having too much effort to have two different full clients to develop.
Props for that!
Meanwhile. I think that CCP needs to start to think about the people that play eve at work while doing a dozen other things. A lot of people do corporation management, chatting, mailing, market orders etc. and newer leaves the station. In time all this will be impossible as the work-computers wont keep up with newest SharderModels.
I think a "EVE-docked up" -client would be a very usefull thing in the future. With this client you could not undock your ship. It would be only to do the micromanagement, chatting and whatever can be done while not flying. With this - you would not have to have two full clients to develop with all the graphic stuff. The docked-up client dont need to have too much gfx in it. Just a interface to eve.
Please consider this when going forward with developing EVE. I feel that this kind of EVE-light client would be usefull to a lot of people out in the world.
Best Regards, T 2 ----------- Member of Tribal Core - fighting for Minmatar Militia. Death to Amarr; long live the Minmatar Nation.
|
strcpy
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 14:40:00 -
[226]
So the ccp want less accounts running in the same time :) but you will fail losing a lot of people. Anyway is a game for rich ppl and sooner or later your actions will doom your business. And NO we won`t play Darkness online. |
Mistress Nyissa
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 15:42:00 -
[227]
Great, it was obvious from that thread that what everyone wanted was SM2 as a minimum because all those SM1 users who posted are worthless users CCP didn't want anyway...
Does "we recieved a lot of feedback" translate to "we couldn't be arsed to read it"?
Thank god our beloved games company will be spending their time promoting more graphical pretties rather than fixing game mechanics, balancing gameplay and doing something actually productive.
Did you even bother to look at how many people use Classic Vs those that use Premium because everyone I know uses Classic. The gains from Premium aren't noticable and the fps loss is.
Still, we're surrounded by politicians that can't make a common sense decision, why should we expect more from a games company? |
Thresh Avery
Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 15:47:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Sonya Rayner It would be really nice of you, dear CCP developers, if you'd offered a bit more graphics options in settings. Like completely disabling some graphics features, that is not necessary to run client - give us ability to scale client performance in hardware resource-tight situations, like fleet battles atc. I'm already running powerpoint presentations in fleet fights with over 300 players on classic client, and my machine is SM3-compatible! Give us option to completely turn off pixel shaders, even if it leaves us with textures only. Tat'd be fine. For most of the fleet fights i bet many players would turn off shaders, textures and other effects completely, since we're dealing with overview and a few sprites (brackets, etc) scattered here and there anyway. That wouldn't require you to create more, if any at all, new graphic assets!
And i surely hope, that spare time from dealing with additional client model will be spent on performance tuning of the other.
CCP should definately take note of this.
If the only reason you're removing the classic client from the game is because:
1. You aren't easily able to manage two sets of graphics models for everything etc. 2. To make the game look better for everyone.
Then you can afford to make people use the Premium graphics, but allow a large degree of user-controlled scaling down of resource-hungry graphics settings so fleet fights will be manageble.
Of course, i know you will do this because of the time you've just saved your employees from dealing with the classic client, right? There has to be a good high performance option in the game, simply because of the way a large portion of the playerbase play the game. |
javer
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 15:51:00 -
[229]
good call and im happy enough that both my laptops are set to keep working :-) |
Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 16:25:00 -
[230]
Edited by: Poreuomai on 22/01/2009 16:30:32
Quote: We will however not pursue going to ShaderModel 3 as a minimum, at least for now.
Thank you for listing to the community.
Let My People Go |
|
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 18:00:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Naga Tokiba Will onboard graphics cards be supported, for example the Intel GMA 4500 ? (It supports DirectX10 and Shader 4.0)
You shouldn't have any problem with that.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
Doublewhopper
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 18:05:00 -
[232]
Maybe someone could enlighten me about Shader Models...
If it is easy to automatically generate SM 2.0 models out of SM 3.0 models, then why can't you take those SM 2.0 models and automatically generate/downgrade them into SM 1.0 models?
Why can't you create a SM 1.0 premium lite client automatically?
|
chatgris
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 18:14:00 -
[233]
One thing, if you are going to disable support for low-end machines, how about adding a skill queue or a web-based interface for changing skills? I can foresee times when the only net access I have on a holiday is some ****ty machine in a net cafe, and that skill needs to be changed. |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 18:17:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Reiisha Of course, people who complain about CCP losing subs completely ignore the overhead costs of having to build the same assets for 2 different engines, essentially.
Actually I addressed it quite specifically. 5% churn is over $2mil per year in lost revenue. That's a lot of man-hours. |
Aethrwolf
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 19:48:00 -
[235]
Edited by: Aethrwolf on 22/01/2009 19:54:07
Originally by: Desmont McCallock ... Now, as for the laptop users, come on... have you seen the prices on the market for one? Even I am thinking of buying one just for the fun of it.
Yes, I have seen the prices... Have YOU seen the unemployment rate for Michigan?? last month was 10.6% and its still going up. I'm only playing because I can make enough ISK to buy gtc's. I will most likely be unable to upgrade my laptop any time soon. I can run sm2 on it, but I CANNOT run it on my desktop.
I understand ccp's need to consolidate their client in the current economic situation around the world, and I am glad they are taking steps to be more efficeint rather than just raising what they charge their player base. Hopefully they can balance the client with what their player base actually can run. Another vote for a hardware survey here.
BTW: to all of you who continually cut/flame those of us who have money issues... theres a reason you say that here and most likely not IRL. Please consider that those words hurt or anger people just as much here as they would to their faces.
|
Danky Nuggets
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 21:45:00 -
[236]
I can garuntee that this will not help everyone but that bieng said for thoes desktop users that have a PCI express slot in the motherboard http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814162026 . $20 and you won't have to worry about what CCP decides to do for a long time to come. |
Marcus Arelios
Caldari Global Sheep Enterprises
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 22:34:00 -
[237]
Edited by: Marcus Arelios on 22/01/2009 22:41:05 AH HA! I told ya the devs listen to us. No SM3 requirement yet! I say yet, since one day it will come, but at least its not planned now.
Although I do smell less linux support in the future...although I don't see how you can get less than what we have. Wine ran eve beautifully for me, but the official linux "client" didn't work for crap. Hopefully wine can run this new premium lite with the same quality. |
Marcus Arelios
Caldari Global Sheep Enterprises
|
Posted - 2009.01.22 22:39:00 -
[238]
Originally by: T 2 I think that CCP made the correct choice. This is the only way to move the game graphics properly forward without having too much effort to have two different full clients to develop.
Props for that!
Meanwhile. I think that CCP needs to start to think about the people that play eve at work while doing a dozen other things. A lot of people do corporation management, chatting, mailing, market orders etc. and newer leaves the station. In time all this will be impossible as the work-computers wont keep up with newest SharderModels.
I think a "EVE-docked up" -client would be a very usefull thing in the future. With this client you could not undock your ship. It would be only to do the micromanagement, chatting and whatever can be done while not flying. With this - you would not have to have two full clients to develop with all the graphic stuff. The docked-up client dont need to have too much gfx in it. Just a interface to eve.
Please consider this when going forward with developing EVE. I feel that this kind of EVE-light client would be usefull to a lot of people out in the world.
Best Regards, T 2
Thats actually not a bad idea and I don't think it would be ridiculously hard to implement. The main reason for not wanting a skill queue was so players would have to login and interact with the world at least on some level, this would provide that plus more. |
Wacktopia
Infinity Miners Union Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 00:03:00 -
[239]
I think you made the right decision CCP. Improving the game and driving it forward without compromising accessibility must be difficult.
Im on a sm2 laptop so clearly pleased-prob upgrade soon tho as premium looks sweet.
Shame there are people whining in quite such a negative way. Probably the same people that would whine if you never upgraded the content, i guess.
T3, better gfx, ambulation (*prepares flame proof shield*).... 2009 jools like a good year so far :)
|
Aten Hau
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 00:18:00 -
[240]
Ill keep this simple, I love eve and am not incredibly knowledgeable about computer terminology.
My lap top plays premium right now....that means I'm good right?
Silly question I know, but I just want to be 100% sure
|
|
Kataapa
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 00:34:00 -
[241]
Admittedly, I'm not very computer literate about the configurations of my laptop, but I love to play EVE anyway. My concern is that with the new minimum SM2 requirement, I won't be able to use EVE anymore.
I currently have a laptop (about 1 1/2 years old) running in the basic version of the program. it's an HP Pavilion dv2500 with an AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-58 1.90 GHz processor, 2 GB memory, and an NVIDIA 7150M/nforce 630M with 287 MB Shared memory. I'm using the Vista operating system.
I'm not running on the premium version because with the classic version I usually am operating at 10 or less FPS, often only 3.0 fps. I have a sneaking suspicion that it's a VISTA problem, because EVE runs just fine on a desktop that I've got running XP (2nd account).
I've have no idea if the above hardware will support SM2 and wasn't able to find out anything about the video card on NVVIDA's web site. But I'd sure be disappointed to give up this account because of hardware limitations. |
Eleana Tomelac
Gallente Eclats de verre
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 00:54:00 -
[242]
That's great that eee pc can still run eve after this.
Before you move to SM3 as a minimum, look for SM3 small stuff like eee pc to be out and a bit cheaper than what a 1000 series would cost. Then, you may be good to go, well, I guess it's a reference for laptops.
You should seriously think about sending an eve newsletter to all active accounts NOW, so people who can't run it will have some time to choose and buy something to run eve.
Also, it would be good if people (at least those that don't know really what's in their computer) could download some program to check their computer specs. Include this in the newsletter too, that's useful.
With those two ideas, the whole playerbase can know very soon if their computer will run the premium lite client.
PS : I didn't read 9 pages, so people could have already pushed forward such ideas. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
|
Lyssa T'Kran
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 01:48:00 -
[243]
Anyone know if the intel 945 chipset for laptops is supported? I can't find any definitely information.
I really don't want to have to buy a new laptop |
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 02:10:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Kataapa Admittedly, I'm not very computer literate about the configurations of my laptop, but I love to play EVE anyway. My concern is that with the new minimum SM2 requirement, I won't be able to use EVE anymore.
I currently have a laptop (about 1 1/2 years old) running in the basic version of the program. it's an HP Pavilion dv2500 with an AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-58 1.90 GHz processor, 2 GB memory, and an NVIDIA 7150M/nforce 630M with 287 MB Shared memory. I'm using the Vista operating system.
I'm not running on the premium version because with the classic version I usually am operating at 10 or less FPS, often only 3.0 fps. I have a sneaking suspicion that it's a VISTA problem, because EVE runs just fine on a desktop that I've got running XP (2nd account).
I've have no idea if the above hardware will support SM2 and wasn't able to find out anything about the video card on NVVIDA's web site. But I'd sure be disappointed to give up this account because of hardware limitations.
Originally by: Lyssa T'Kran Anyone know if the intel 945 chipset for laptops is supported? I can't find any definitely information.
I really don't want to have to buy a new laptop
Quote1: you could actually play Premium at reduced resolution...
Quote2: I answered this on another thread... 945 chipset is supposed to have GMA950 graphics which can run SM2.0...
both should be good to go after the update in March
|
Highwind Cid
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 02:25:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Avon Well, my laptop was junk.
Thanks for the epiphany.
Please send replacement to the address on my account details. Thx.
Corrections have been made. |
Tabea Knute
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 02:26:00 -
[246]
Ok, I'm out. Nearly 3 years of playing and paying. This comes now to an end. Thank you very much CCP.
First, I like the classic client and the not so shiny graphics. It's a loss to the game in my eyes.
Second, I can not afford a new laptop or desktop computer. My option is only: Stop payment immediatly and switch to GTC until March 10.
It's your decision, your loss, not mine. Maybe it's time to switch to other games.
-1 paying customer. |
Malliw
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 02:46:00 -
[247]
CCP,
I appreciate the support effort there was so far for the Linux operating system. I appreciate the quest to move forward. I also appreciate the heads-up that you gave us.
You are obviously dodging the Linux question. We are paying customers just like everyone else. I don't appreciate the lack of anything that even resembles an attempt to answer the "what about Linux" question.
I gave Eve up before when I finally completely gave up on the Windows Operating system, and was very excited about the attempt to support Linux.
CCP you wouldn't believe the number of Linux users out there that only keep their Windows systems around to play games.
For me its simple. If Linux support is out then I'm out. I absolutely will not keep a Windows system around even for Eve. I will just be come one of your "3%-5%".
Believe it or not I keep in-touch with one of my son's who is a computer security expert for a very successful company, and the other who is in the Army by playing Eve with them on a regular schedule. It really burns me to have to give this up and so far I'm very disappointed with your apparent lack of concern for those of us who have Linux.
It would be nice if you would make an attempt to answer this question.
|
minerboob
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 03:07:00 -
[248]
THIS IS NOT COOL!
As of the end of this year I need to pay... what? $700 for a new computer to play eve? F THAT! :P
|
Leenaa
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 03:22:00 -
[249]
I'm out.
There was really no need for you to push this on us CCP. I'm all happy for those that can support Shader 2 and up. But I'm not one of them and I'm not about to go out and buy a couple GeForce 5/6 cards (and a new laptop) just to help you keep bragging about all your player concurrencies numbers (with NO lag to boot!)
Seems to me you are trying to keep your stock holder dividends up by reducing the amount of payroll you would need to maintain Classic Client. Great business move, poor customer service. But my experience is this is exactly what happens when a company grows to be very successful. They forget the people that got them there. Instead of Leenaa, I am now truly Caldari Citizen 8315678.
I'm sure my accounts leaving will be trivial, so I don't know why I even bother. |
Amar'u Deltmartuk
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 03:49:00 -
[250]
Again, I'd like to reiterate the point that there's a distinction between minimal *support* and *playability*. That is, I'd better not friggin lose FPS over having to go from Classic to your Premium Lite stuff...(intel x3100 laptop user here...)
Also, you'd I'd like to add in my support for the many subscribers who are running non-fleet/non-combat alts on their secondary low end machines (laptops); while some may be paying for those with ISK, there might be many who are still paying for those accounts out of pocket. Definitely be conscientious about your cost-benefit analysis here - and I can't repeat this enough: even if you implement some kind of Steam-style hardware spec sender, be careful about claimed support and playability - I'd bet my 1yr old laptop would get 1FPS running SM4 (or possibly even SM3) code, for example. |
|
Amar'u Deltmartuk
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 03:52:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Eleana Tomelac
You should seriously think about sending an eve newsletter to all active accounts NOW, so people who can't run it will have some time to choose and buy something to run eve.
Did you check your email yet? I got my newsletter at 2217 UTC :) |
MinorFreak
Amarr ADVANCED Combat and Engineering Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 04:08:00 -
[252]
whaddya mean "continue to monitor trends on a regular basis"? monthly? yearly? till you damn well feel like it? flip a coin? Sounds to me like the end of next year is when your 'spin' is going to be complete and you'll foist this hardware upgrade on us with a "hardware companies have stopped support of [insert convenient statistic] and we're continuing as planned with no changes cuz we know best"
*shrug* why don't you guys just admit that you didn't make a proper vote. there's polls available on the forums. use it, don't waste our time with "we listen to the little people"...noone believes you.
It'll be a shame i can use my old 1999 computer to run alts on the side, even trial accounts, but *shrug* that's no loss. I'm just feeling pity for a company that's chomping on a bit over a plan to force it's customers to upgrade **** they really don't need to, just cuz you think you can convince all of us premium lite will run smoother on older models than classic.
your base assumption is that there's no need to explain why premium lite is better than classic (other than patting yourselves on the back for cutting down on your own staff loads) ______________________ Best darned links ingame and out (backup) |
T 2
Minmatar Tribal Core
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 07:53:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Marcus Arelios
Originally by: T 2
**Quote cutted ** ... I think a "EVE-docked up" -client would be a very usefull thing in the future. With this client you could not undock your ship. It would be only to do the micromanagement, chatting and whatever can be done while not flying. With this - you would not have to have two full clients to develop with all the graphic stuff. The docked-up client dont need to have too much gfx in it. Just a interface to eve.
Please consider this when going forward with developing EVE. I feel that this kind of EVE-light client would be usefull to a lot of people out in the world.
Thats actually not a bad idea and I don't think it would be ridiculously hard to implement. The main reason for not wanting a skill queue was so players would have to login and interact with the world at least on some level, this would provide that plus more.
I'd think that an eve-light would solve quite a lot of the issues that people are having with the SM2 and the upgrade of computers. The light version would have very low requirements and it could be easily installed even to the odd internet-cafe computers so peeps could get ingame to change skills, hook up with corp mates in chat and spend half of their holidays in internet cafes tuning marketing orders.
Best Regards, T2 |
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari Hammers Academy
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 07:54:00 -
[254]
Edited by: Sargeant HAmmer on 23/01/2009 07:54:40 how the hell am i supposed to check for sm2, at least when you announced upgrade to sm3 you gave a link to a program that could tell you.
p.s. british players are paying more and more as is |
Galax Jin
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 08:55:00 -
[255]
As I see it CCP, you all love the new people that just got into EVE or came back to it from your advertising campaign. Most of them, like me, love the Idea of EVE. But what the @#$* are you trying to do, be like Microsoft and ram Vista down our throats? Saying we need to upgrade our computers. You see how that worked for them. I think your customer base will die off fast with that approach. Being compatible with 5 year old computers is still a need. Whomever you got your data from is not seeing the whole picture when it comes to upgrading computers. Here is some things that have not been taken into account.
1) Most of the world is in a recession. 2) Job market is shrinking. 3) People do not upgrade there computers to satisfy one game. 4) People play more than one game. 5) Graphics is eye-candy, not the most important aspect of a game.
Most importantly, the space pilot type games (STO, SGW, SWO), that are coming out this year have computer requirements of ONBOARD graphics, pentium II. And why do you think they have this as there minimum requirements?
It's because, if you keep upping the requirements for the game they will go find another game to play, not get a better computer. Especially if they already did this once for the game. |
Zeni Chan
Capital Experiments Infernal Experiments
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 10:13:00 -
[256]
While I do feel for the people who are going to not be able to follow the EvE client, I look forward to the new features they will be able to introduce.
To help my alliance mates who I know are not all computer types, I asked them to send me their make/model of video card or laptop and I will tell them what it will support. I have offered my hardware expertise to my friends to help them upgrade their video card if needed. If you have a desktop system then chances are very good for minimal cash you can upgrade it. SM 2.0 cards are really inexpensive. In fact I gave my old one ( Radeon x850 ) away to another EvE player in my corp since they are almost worth nothing they are so old.
I would go as far as to find out how many of us tech-rats have old SM 2.0 video cards we could simply give away to people who needed them. I can count 3 on my back desk right now. Yes, I mean you, the person with more computers in your house than people... See what you have in your drawer and ask around your corp or alliance to see who could use the hardware. I have an old AGP ATI All-In-Wonder 9800 around here somewhere that is SM 2.0 hardware, even have the remote control for it still. So dig you tech-rats and get rid of some of your hardware for a good reason.
|
omgdutch2005
Gallente Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 10:18:00 -
[257]
Originally by: ElMo's Ghost Sadly the laptop (Mobility Radeon 7500) that I run my 2nd account on doesn't support SM2. Depending on how my desktop (Radeon X1950 Pro) runs two clients on separate monitors I might just bump down to one account.
It's really a shame because I liked having 2 accounts open while being able to watch both screens. I'm at a point in my life where I don't really need to be buying upgraded gaming computers. I suppose the graphics upgrade will finally help me decide whether or not I really should be paying for 2 accounts.
Overall I'm happy the devs listened to the posts on the last blog but still a bit sad that I'll be forced down to 1 account. Life goes on.
i ran dual premium gfx on a x1600pro, worked just fine :) x1900 will do better |
StoneRhino
Ramm's RDI
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 14:25:00 -
[258]
So, let me get this straight... You want to cut your nose off in spite of your face? We're not talking missile nurf or ship nurf. We are talking about a serious threat to your (CCP's) wallet.
And it seems only two folks have mentioned in this post that economic strife is going to kill your player base if you change the hardware specs. They are exactly correct in this sense. I can tell you right now that the majority of the folks still TRYING to play classic client are on Intel Extreme 2 graphics chips, AGP based Radeon 9xxx series, or Nvidia 4xxx's.
Sure, you save tons of code by not having to support old hardware. I'd love to not have to burn up 1.2GB downloading premium client.
Look what happened when you stopped supporting windows 98. Two things happened: Loss of player base (10-20%), and slightly less buggy client. But still, the consequence was grave.
Oh, but wait, I forgot. Its things like this that drive the hardware industry.
Being an avid systems builder for basic gaming machines, this... is just sad.
Now, unless you really want to help folks upgrade their cards, you need to work out some kind of deal with card manufacturers. Thing's like a rebate, discount, 2-4 extra months of play for buying a card or something.
Now down to the real money. AGP cards that support SM2 are practically GONE from the market. When was the last time someone went PC building? Let me give you a hand here.
Radeon AGP HD3650 = 100$ Nvidia PCIE 8400GS = 30$ New motherboard, celeron processor, 2GB of DDR2-800, powersupply, case = 394$ for something that run vista just fine.
You tell me where this is going. But, I'm sorry folks, this whole post is going to fall on deaf ears. So its pointless to even discuss it. |
Aunicor
Caldari Atra Mortis Industries Free Worlds Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 15:01:00 -
[259]
i have geforce 6600 fx will i need to change?? |
Ryfaen Ren
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 15:41:00 -
[260]
I am currently runing on a laptop as well. Has an ATI Radeon 9800 so at least it will still work in march as it supports shader 2.0 However I'll be gone in winter 2009 if this support is dropped. My laptop is one of 4 computers in the house and actually has the best specifications. No way will be able to justify an upgrade for at least 2 or 3 more years.
For now it would be great if you could create a small program that just tests the capabilities you use and could give a yes/no answer as to whether it will run the new "lite" version as well as listing the features that are missing. I find it very annoying when the client says I can't run premium graphics (even to see them since I'm sure I can't run them normally due to performance) but doesn't tell me why.
|
|
alexxr
Gallente Trader's Academy Blue Sky Consortium
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 15:56:00 -
[261]
Edited by: alexxr on 23/01/2009 16:01:20 Well i was going to argue about not being able to support it as this comp has a Gforce 3 MX 440, but then i realized hey i am getting a new computer with a Geforce 9400 GT 512mb but i still feel for those of you who have the lower modules and like the idea of a second platform or site for which people can change skills/chat and maybe even check markets. It would help those that are on trips or away from home. Also what new space mmos are coming out besides Kotor? (sorry reference to last post as people kept mentioning competing games) |
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 16:44:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Aunicor i have geforce 6600 fx will i need to change??
You won't need to change that one - it will continue to work just fine.
|
Jim Rockford
|
Posted - 2009.01.23 17:58:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Jim Rockford on 23/01/2009 18:01:54 Lets see, $300 for a xbox, $400. for playstation 3 or 2 new computers to run my clients. I guess CCP doesn't want my money because there is no way I'm spending thousands to play Eve. There's no way I would be able to convince the wife of that. BTW, my accounts are out of pocket & getting tired of hearing the flack from my wife as it is
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Celaz
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Posted - 2009.01.23 19:58:00 -
[264]
Yep, prolly the kiss of death for me too - no way can I afford to upgrade 3 cards. tbh the classic graphics worked just fine for me, why force the change? |
Jag Cancer
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Posted - 2009.01.23 20:11:00 -
[265]
What I find quite interesting is the fact that they are advertising world records for concurent users. I suppose they should milk it now as I seriously suspect they won't be breaking that record again for a while.
My PC will be fine - however, I know 8 clients (over 6 people) IRL and know for a fact that 5 will stop paying: 2 older desktops and 3 laptops.
That's more than a 50% drop. And to be honest, I play MMOs for the social aspect so if my friends leave then I probably will. I'm guessing that I'm not the only person that plays in a RL group so...
I'm curious if CCP will release the subscription and concurrent user numbers in the months following Apochrypha.
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Andresky
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.23 20:30:00 -
[266]
I've a GMA 950 and perhaps 10-15 FPS mostly. I don't thing FPS will be the same with "Premium Lite". I expect lower FPS... and it only supports Shader 2.0 without TnL.
The worldwide financial crisis won't allow any new and latest high end hardware for most players I think!
When will the "Premium Lite" be available on Singularity? |
xxxak
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Posted - 2009.01.23 22:40:00 -
[267]
If any of you can read, you will know the following is true:
Almost any desktop made in the last 8-9 years can have a video card dropped in it for about $50/Euro50 that will allow it to run EVE Lite.
Some very old laptops cannot run EVE and cannot be upgraded. Most of the affected laptops are at least 4-5 years old and were fairly cheap when purchased.
ENTIRE new computers/laptops that can run EVE well can be purchased for $200-400.
Thus, my response: if you cannot afford the $50 to $400 to continue playing EVE, I don't care if you quit, you are a loser. |
Gargamell Smurf
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Posted - 2009.01.23 22:42:00 -
[268]
FFS. I can't believe how many d+++++++s are whining about "have to Quit EVE, thanks a lot CCP". WTF?! DID YOU READ THE ARTICLE?!?! DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT "SM2" is? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT KIND OF EQUIPMENT YOU HAVE IN YOUR COMPUTER?!?! The 2 or 3 people who are actually not able to run the new lite version are people who are very knowledgeable about computers and hardware. They have to be very competent with computers and hardware or they wouldn't even be able to play EVE on ancient stone age rigs! All you other D+++++++s will STILL BE ABLE TO PLAY EVE JUST FINE! I am REALLY impressed by those of you who say things like, 'i choose not to run the premium client.... now i am forced to quit'... -NEWS FLASH- If you have the option to run the Premium client on your current computer... THEN YOU WILL BE MORE THAN ABLE TO RUN "PREMIUM LITE"! It is made specifically for you! Or those of you who say things like 'my computer is like 2 years old... i can't afford to pay $500 for a new computer... duhhhhhh.... -NEWS FLASH- If your computer is only a couple years old, WTF would it not support the SM2 PREMIUM LITE?!?! Those are the computers that Premium Lite is MADE FOR! $500?!? WTF?!?! you can play EVE on a STINKING $100 computer!!!!!!!! You can put $20 into your mediocre rig and improve game play drastically! If you don't understand, then don't come and whine and make a fool of yourself. Just state what you have/ don't understand, and someone will explain it to you.
If you don't know if you will be able to run the new client, then you probably WILL be able to. Like i said, the people who are running rigs to old to handle the upgrade, are already quite aware of their status and aware of just how little it will take to upgrade their old hobbyhorse. Everyone else, Stop embarrassing yourselves please! |
DarkStar251
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Posted - 2009.01.23 23:02:00 -
[269]
The most amusing thing is that almost everyone worried about if they can run it is posting replies like "I have a Core i7 Quad core and Geforce GTX295 Quad SLI and am worried I wont be able to run premium...."
Yes, the many 6600s out there will run premium, AND premium lite.
Yes, any Geforce 5 (including the ancient and **** Geforce FX5200) will run premium lite.
Yes, your random Geforce 7150 integrated chipset would run both premium and premium lite.
You may currently run classic as you like to run eleventy billion accounts on a 2 mhz CPU, and avoid Premium for this reason, but you havent tried Premium Lite yet, it may well be just as lightweight as Classic.
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.24 00:42:00 -
[270]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 24/01/2009 00:44:36
Originally by: Gargamell Smurf -NEWS FLASH- If your computer is only a couple years old, WTF would it not support the SM2 PREMIUM LITE?!?! Those are the computers that Premium Lite is MADE FOR!
-NEWS FLASH- He didn't try to seriously read this topic, and the precedent one too I guess.
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StoneRhino
Ramm's RDI
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Posted - 2009.01.24 01:26:00 -
[271]
Edited by: StoneRhino on 24/01/2009 01:33:56 Thanks Sky Marshal for that. I was going to say that as well.
If you've gotten this far, then I think you can tell that some folks just dont seem to give a ******* **** these past few posts. Thats fine. Some folks are given everything in life and never had to work for a single nickel, or known what its like making a choice between feeding their kids or buying a few dimebags of weed when they don't have a job. Oh, I'm sorry for offending those addicts out there, your kids are starving. (STFU KTHX)
Now, me? Well, going to be honest. I've made 8000$ last year working my job. I OWN my car. I put gas in it, even at 5$/gal. I have no more than 300$ at any given time. My medication costs on average 600$/mo. I do not live with my parents. I do not receive wellfare. I do not receive any kind of free money. Why? oh wait, that's what poverty is folks. OH and by the way, I've already talked to 3 ppl in eve and given them some of my old gear. GIVEN it. Because I'm a nice person and its good karma.
Now. If anyone wants to start another post about "LOLZ U R POOR!!", please feel free.
I'm posting as to voice my concerns that others share. I can already run 12 eve accounts with classic or 8 with premium content all on the same pc. Oh, and by the way, my rig costs less than 700$ (nope, not even quad core, or SLI/Crossfire). It took me 1 year to make the machine what it is.
It's already bad enough that folks cant pay their subscription. So I am going to ask YOU, CCP. Should people spend 2 months of their subscription to buy a card that can barely run Eve, then get ****ed off because later, you will be removing the support for that card they just bought.
For those folks still reading, the Intel GMA graphics hub does NOT, repeat, NOT support 2.0 shader. There are driver hacks available to trick games into running anyways. I did it so I could play UT2k4 on my laptop, but it looks like ****. Classic client on the Intel GMA only goes 10-15 fps anyhow. Good old Verite Rendition chips, good move Intel.
Chipsets older than these, will NOT function with shader 2.0: PCI-E and AGP Nvidia Geforce 6100's PCI-E and AGP ATI Radeon x300's PCI/PCI-E/AGP Nvidia FX cards? I can't call that one, It's for the most part a crap-shoot. Consider yourself good if your FX card is PCI-E.
For those curious about an app that can test for shader 2.0, CCP released one about a year or so ago for when trinity was initially released. You MAY be able to still find it on the forums. Try searching for it. I will scour my servers for a spare copy.
Moderator, I'm making a point here. The truth hurts. Nuff said My Previous Post
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Zoink Bshhh
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Posted - 2009.01.24 01:27:00 -
[272]
Edited by: Zoink Bshhh on 24/01/2009 01:27:07 yes yes i did what CCP could have done :)
--> http://www.apeocorp.com/shadertester/ShaderModelTest.exe
its a installer it will install 2 things
1) the tool to check what shaders are supported 2) XNA 3.0 framework (the tool uses this framework from microsoft)
First it installs the tester, then it autostarts the xna installer (mandatory else it wont work)
once the XNA setup is done (just press next for a few time)
the tester will load this dos style box and state what shader is, and what shader is NOT supported...
Cheers!
omgdutch2005 (ingame)
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Kar'vel
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Posted - 2009.01.24 02:51:00 -
[273]
So why would you want to make it so you would have 1/3 or your players have to leave eve as tehy can't afford to upgrade tehre systems during this resession? This is not the time to make your players have to deside if they should try to upgrade a computer or feed there families and pay bills as the computer will loose. I for one will be unable to upgrade to what you are asking and so I will have to be leaving eve. I wish it was not the case but it seem to be. |
Gummychaos
Caldari Red Star Navy Ethikos Trade Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.24 05:08:00 -
[274]
Well I'm thankful to CCP for making the updated graphics the standard and also finally bringing the mac platform in line with the PC version, graphics wise, the premium graphics run amazing. As for my specs, I run a Macbook Pro with a Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz processor with 4 GB of RAM and a GeForce 8600M GT with 256 MB VRAM. So hate on me for having an expensive laptop thats gonna last me a while, it was only $2100...although for those of you considering a new mac laptop, the new macbook, not pro with the GeForce 9400 M graphics chipset, not dedicated, can run EVE and it does have ShaderModel 3.0 support. Its only $1200, so take it for what it is. It is up to you to keep up with the way the game is going, I personally like this new direction we may lose lifelong players who've been here since the beginning, but its life, and we'll gain new players as well, those of you running multiple accounts on classic but can only run one on premium oh well, I don't feel one way or the other on that you either run it with the new premium lite or dont, personally imho, I like running one account and working in a corp with other people to do all those other jobs. But you do what you want with all that money you got going for ya. Also, note to CCP fix somethings with the mac client, allow a windowed mode from the settings screen instead of searching through a file and changing it. And also be able to actually go to the log out screen instead of quitting and rebooting. Other than that keep up the good work! |
Gargamell Smurf
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Posted - 2009.01.24 05:39:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 24/01/2009 05:43:37
Quote: So why would you want to make it so you would have 1/3 or your players have to leave eve as tehy can't afford to upgrade tehre systems during this resession? ... I for one will be unable to upgrade to what you are asking and so I will have to be leaving eve. I wish it was not the case but it seem to be.
1/3?!?!?!
you can't upgrade WHAT? what is it that you will have to upgrade in order to play the updated client? explain to me in detail please.
I run EVE on a $75 refurbished office workstation that i got 5 years ago at a online junk sale. Windows 2000. 512 RAM. 500Mhz processor. (upgraded to 1Ghz for $40)I think i may have to get a slightly less sh***y GPU for the SM2, so that will probably cost me another $40. Is your computer like that?
If you have to decide between a $40 GPU upgrade and feeding your family then WHY THE F*** ARE YOU PLAYING A STUPID ONLINE GAME FOR $15 PER MONTH?!?!?! This forum is getting stupider by the hour! |
Hyena Jade
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Posted - 2009.01.24 06:10:00 -
[276]
Hello,
whats about all the Ship or Station Graphics? I mean, i play the game on two PC, Desktop on Premium Graphics, Laptop on Classic Graphics:
My Final Conclusion: - for Ships like the Providence or the Prorator = Classic looks more awesome then Premium - for Stations like the Quafe or others (docked) = Classic looks more awesome (exclude the Minmatar Outpost docked on Premium ^^) - For Stations = has some Outside Fire Effects
Think about it...
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Tionisla
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Posted - 2009.01.24 06:22:00 -
[277]
Does this mean AT LAST that anti-aliasing will be part of the engine? |
Astraal Forever
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Posted - 2009.01.24 07:33:00 -
[278]
Why isn't there simply a 'minimum requirements' blog or a list of all stuff that will be able to run the new expansion? That will tell us what to get at the least and that's it, no more 'will it work?' questions. No problems on my PC if this is the tradition of concerning
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Andresky
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.24 08:48:00 -
[279]
Originally by: xxxak If any of you can read, you will know the following is true:
Almost any desktop made in the last 8-9 years can have a video card dropped in it for about $50/Euro50 that will allow it to run EVE Lite.
Some very old laptops cannot run EVE and cannot be upgraded. Most of the affected laptops are at least 4-5 years old and were fairly cheap when purchased.
ENTIRE new computers/laptops that can run EVE well can be purchased for $200-400.
Thus, my response: if you cannot afford the $50 to $400 to continue playing EVE, I don't care if you quit, you are a loser.
hey you ignorant idiot... notebooks have onboard graphic... no change possible. a nnew notebook costs 700 euro upwards... you have the money? give it to me ;)
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2009.01.24 09:47:00 -
[280]
Whiner whiner your pants are on fire.
Go dumpster-diving or buy an old used rig. Getting your hands on something that can play premium lite does not need to entail buying the latest laptop model from dell. |
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Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2009.01.24 10:27:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Gummychaos Well I'm thankful to CCP for making the updated graphics the standard and also finally bringing the mac platform in line with the PC version, graphics wise, the premium graphics run amazing. As for my specs, I run a Macbook Pro with a Intel Core 2 Duo 2.4Ghz processor with 4 GB of RAM and a GeForce 8600M GT with 256 MB VRAM. So hate on me for having an expensive laptop thats gonna last me a while, it was only $2100...although for those of you considering a new mac laptop, the new macbook, not pro with the GeForce 9400 M graphics chipset, not dedicated, can run EVE and it does have ShaderModel 3.0 support. Its only $1200, so take it for what it is. It is up to you to keep up with the way the game is going, I personally like this new direction we may lose lifelong players who've been here since the beginning, but its life, and we'll gain new players as well, those of you running multiple accounts on classic but can only run one on premium oh well, I don't feel one way or the other on that you either run it with the new premium lite or dont, personally imho, I like running one account and working in a corp with other people to do all those other jobs. But you do what you want with all that money you got going for ya. Also, note to CCP fix somethings with the mac client, allow a windowed mode from the settings screen instead of searching through a file and changing it. And also be able to actually go to the log out screen instead of quitting and rebooting. Other than that keep up the good work!
Or... you could go get a WINDOWS laptop with the same specs for over $200 less?
Seriously... Mac fanboys annoy me, especially when the only real difference nowadays between their machines and PC's is the OS - Personally I'm not willing to pay close to a $300 premium for the OS (if I want to use 'nix I'll buy a machine with no OS and install Ubuntu on it for nothing, saving even more). |
DarkAssasain
Amarr The Underground Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.24 10:35:00 -
[282]
very nice, though he premium lite with shader 2 or 3 should run fine with a graphics card like Nvidia GeForce 8500 GT? |
Andresky
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.24 10:57:00 -
[283]
Edited by: Andresky on 24/01/2009 10:58:31
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Getting your hands on something that can play premium lite does not need to entail buying the latest laptop model from dell.
Why shall I buy a new Notebook because of a game?
A question to CCP:
For me EVE says "Premium Content not supported". Does this also affect the upcoming "Premium Lite" version? |
Master Roll
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Posted - 2009.01.24 11:28:00 -
[284]
3 -5%!! not from what im reading and hearing maybe you should publish (if u havent already) how u arrived at that figure. Bad move!!
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2009.01.24 12:10:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Andresky Edited by: Andresky on 24/01/2009 10:58:31
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Getting your hands on something that can play premium lite does not need to entail buying the latest laptop model from dell.
Why shall I buy a new Notebook because of a game?
No one is forcing you to play EVE. |
Andresky
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.24 12:42:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Andresky Edited by: Andresky on 24/01/2009 10:58:31
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Getting your hands on something that can play premium lite does not need to entail buying the latest laptop model from dell.
Why shall I buy a new Notebook because of a game?
No one is forcing you to play EVE.
Correct. Thats why I am asking "Why shall I buy..." ;) Just read the previous posts.
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Zeimanov Kalzumaan
Caldari Haruspex Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.24 13:15:00 -
[287]
At the risk of sounding incredibly stupid, I'm not a computer person, how do I know if I can support shader 3?
I use a laptop with built-in graphice support rather than a dedicated card (mobile intel(R) 915GMS Express chipset). Without a dedicated IT bod, how am I supposed to be able to tell what I can and can't run?
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YaSiS
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Posted - 2009.01.24 13:50:00 -
[288]
where is our sm 4.0 support ? first of all Laptop isnt made for gaming, you wanna game then build a desktop rig. second instead of putting time and effort in sm2.0 put some more time in visual upgrade like sm4.0 Graphics cards that deliver performance and visual experience are cheap these days for examble geforce 8/9 Radeon 4x series. latest generation graphics card supports 8x texture resolution and all kind of texture compression to hardware bumpmapping.
pricewatch Club3D GeForce 8800 GTGF 8800 GT512MBPCI-e2x DVI Ç 128,33 Asus Asus EN9600GT MG/HTDP/512MD2GF 9600 GT512MBPCI-e2x DVI, TV Ç 83,17 Sapphire HD 4830 512MB GDDR3 PCI-ERad. HD4830512MBPCI-e2x DVI DL, TV Ç 92,03 Sapphire HD 4850 512MB GDDR3 PCI-ERad. HD4850512MBPCI-e2x DVI DL, TV Ç 119,90
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Sweetness Sideways
Gallente Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2009.01.24 17:06:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Andresky Edited by: Andresky on 24/01/2009 10:58:31
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Getting your hands on something that can play premium lite does not need to entail buying the latest laptop model from dell.
Why shall I buy a new Notebook because of a game?
A question to CCP:
For me EVE says "Premium Content not supported". Does this also affect the upcoming "Premium Lite" version?
ShaderTesterTool
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Anubis Sobek
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Posted - 2009.01.24 18:07:00 -
[290]
Edited by: Anubis Sobek on 24/01/2009 18:13:44 Thank god ATI added Shader3 model cap to their x1000 series laptop cards!!!
On another note, Laptops like for me are the only way I have to go because of work and life style. Every week I am always in a different place because of work, so a desktop is out of the question. Also keep in mind laptops are a huge investment for a decent one. Most laptops under 800 dollars run really crappy internal graphic cards. Just because $800.00 to some folks does not sound like much, to others that can be one months rent + food.
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Gargamell Smurf
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Posted - 2009.01.24 21:44:00 -
[291]
Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 24/01/2009 21:49:15
Originally by: Andresky
hey you ignorant idiot... notebooks have onboard graphic... no change possible. a nnew notebook costs 700 euro upwards... you have the money? give it to me ;)
I run EVE on a $200 laptop. An OLD, beat up, used, refurbished laptop. It is well beyond the minimum requirements to play EVE. I don't get into large fleet fights on the laptop, but for average playing and small gang PVP, it works fine. In fact, EVE has been getting steadily easier to play on crappy systems because they continually work to smooth out the graphics, lag and latency issues. So you can all STFU with your whining about laptops.
I will say it again: If you don't understand what your rig is capable of, and don't understand what the new EVE upgrade means technically with regard to your hardware, then STFU. You will probably have no trouble with the new client. EVE is one of the FEW "high end" MMOG that is SPECIFICALLY designed to run on CRAP systems. |
Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.24 22:11:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Gargamell Smurf This forum is getting stupider by the hour!
I totally agree. Your posts make this forum worse at each time. So please, just go away.
Your experience is not a generality. All laptops are not like that, etc... I will not return every arguments of all posts of the two topics on this subject. You will have to read them, that you didn't do, or you wouldn't not write your posts. |
Gargamell Smurf
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Posted - 2009.01.24 22:18:00 -
[293]
I'm sorry, could you have someone help you re-write that bit. Hard to understand what you are trying to say. |
Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.01.24 22:51:00 -
[294]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 24/01/2009 22:55:43
Yes I know, It is hard to not be born in an english speaking country but I am sure that you understood what I meant.
Quote: Club3D GeForce 8800 GT GF 8800 GT 512MB PCI-e 2x DVI € 128,33 Asus Asus EN9600GT MG/HTDP/512MD2 GF 9600 GT 512MB PCI-e 2x DVI, TV € 83,17 Sapphire HD 4830 512MB GDDR3 PCI-E Rad. HD4830 512MB PCI-e 2x DVI DL, TV € 92,03 Sapphire HD 4850 512MB GDDR3 PCI-E Rad. HD4850 512MB PCI-e 2x DVI DL, TV € 119,90
Pretty expensive stuff and some of them can require a new power supply unit, and can generate overheat problems, depending of the tower. |
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2009.01.24 23:11:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 24/01/2009 23:02:53
Yes I know, It is hard to not be born in an english speaking country but I am sure that you understood what I meant.
Quote: Club3D GeForce 8800 GT GF 8800 GT 512MB PCI-e 2x DVI Ç 128,33 Asus Asus EN9600GT MG/HTDP/512MD2 GF 9600 GT 512MB PCI-e 2x DVI, TV Ç 83,17 Sapphire HD 4830 512MB GDDR3 PCI-E Rad. HD4830 512MB PCI-e 2x DVI DL, TV Ç 92,03 Sapphire HD 4850 512MB GDDR3 PCI-E Rad. HD4850 512MB PCI-e 2x DVI DL, TV Ç 119,90
Pretty expensive stuff and some of them can require a new power supply unit, and can generate overheat problems, depending of the tower, so more expenses... Upgrading is not cheaper than some players can think. And a 40$ card can not be enough to have a good game experience (or CCP will create a good SM 2.0 client, but I doubt of it).
ALL of the cards you described here are Shader Model 4.0 or 4.1 and WAY overkill for the 10th March update...
drop down to a Radeon 2/3xxx or Geforce 6/7-series and you may find the prices a LOT lower - especially if you shop on Ebay. |
Japla
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Posted - 2009.01.25 04:20:00 -
[296]
Well just my thoughts and a comment i want to make Eve has had the one thing that no other game has had and that is a game that all can run . now after paying monthly charges to play eve and countless skills learned alot of us wont be able to play it next winter if they goto shaders 3.0 ... shaders 2.0 for this march arent the issue most ppl should be fine. but shaders 3.0 will screw alot of ppl and not the 3-5% that ccp says mark my word it will be around 20% .... and remember ppl have more than one account too so all 4 of mine will be screwed thats 60+ bucks a month ccp will loose from me and countless other ppl infact out of the 100+ ppl ive talked to in my friend list in game 24% of them will be ok for shaders 3.0 the rest wont and some have already said hell with eve they dont want to waste time to find out they cant play next year... so ccp if your reading this which i doubt you are that would make to much sense ... upgrade to shaders 2.0 and stop there dont ruin what so many have worked so hard on .. remember the economy is messed up think ppl can spend a grand on a new pc think again..
enjoy all |
Uthayn
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.25 04:23:00 -
[297]
Thanks! This will keep me able to play at whatever box or laptop I'm sitting at! |
majollnir
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Posted - 2009.01.25 04:24:00 -
[298]
Its a terrible decision to disable sm2 and sm3 this winter. There are loyal customers that pay money every month to play this game. Now some of them wont be able to. This tells me that all ccp see's is dollar signs and dosnt care about being a game that people can play no matter what type of computer they can afford. There are people that spend what little money they have on the sub and cant afford to upgrade. This move makes me wonder if the time i have put into this game was worth it? So now some of us are going to be shown the door. |
Gargamell Smurf
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Posted - 2009.01.25 08:10:00 -
[299]
Quote: ... upgrade to shaders 2.0 and stop there dont ruin what so many have worked so hard on .. remember the economy is messed up think ppl can spend a grand on a new pc think again..
Originally by: majollnir
Its a terrible decision to disable sm1 and sm2 this winter. There are loyal customers that pay money every month to play this game. Now some of them wont be able to. This tells me that all ccp see's is dollar signs and dosnt care about being a game that people can play no matter what type of computer they can afford. There are people that spend what little money they have on the sub and cant afford to upgrade. This move makes me wonder if the time i have put into this game was worth it? So now some of us are going to be shown the door.
They are NOT changing to SM3. They wanted to, but everyone said no, so they ARE NOT changing to SM3. They probably will eventually, in the future, but they have stated in the blog that they are NOT going to SM3. Everyone has plenty of time to enjoy SM2 because they ARE NOT going to SM3. Not this winter. Not until everyone is more willing to accept SM3. Read it again. It is NOT changing to SM3 and it will not change to SM3 any time soon. For now, it is STAYING SM2. That is the reason they wrote the SECOND blog about everyone rejecting SM3. READ THE BLOG.
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Mene Ya
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Posted - 2009.01.25 12:50:00 -
[300]
well i will see what the light version will change to me... i buy 10 months ago a special 200$ boost Ati Saphire 2600 XT /512ram special for AGP platforms (have Direct X10 if you put Vista) running on Barton 2,6 GHz/1 G ram - to see premium... and? i can't see even now some constructions bunkers or sentry in missions in game. I send to CCP my directx and what they want. They say to me to disable the anti-aliasing... But heyyyoooo this graphic card DON'T HAVE the disable option, in fact have 4 option Smoothvision HD anti-aliasing and another Adaptive Anti-aliasing supersampling and multisampling so dear CCP ??... what i choose? heheheheheh
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Slade Trillgon
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.25 13:48:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Sweetness Sideways
ShaderTesterTool
Mobile Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset Family Shader model 1.1 : yes Shader model 1.2 : yes Shader model 1.3 : yes Shader model 1.4 : yes Shader model 2.0 : yes Shader model 2 A : no Shader model 2 B : no Shader model 2 (software): no Shader model 3.0 : no
This is what I got. I assume that this means that I will not need to upgrade? Well at least I can log in and change skills considering that my laptop struggles with classic at this point.
Slade
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat!
≡v≡ |
Kalith Steiner
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 14:37:00 -
[302]
well, good to hear that you will at least in 2009 support SM2.0. I honestly hope 2010 will bring the same support!
|
YaSiS
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 16:54:00 -
[303]
sm2.0 is gettin old its from 2002 and we are now at 2009.. people have to upgrade serously.
|
Andresky
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 19:07:00 -
[304]
Originally by: YaSiS sm2.0 is gettin old its from 2002 and we are now at 2009.. people have to upgrade serously.
hehe, if you pay the upgrade? ;) why not?
@ CCP: do we have to expect a framerate loss with the move from classic to premium lite?
|
Gavri'el
|
Posted - 2009.01.25 21:04:00 -
[305]
Maybe I'm late... but what about Linux users? I struggled quite a few weeks to get this thing to work... my card is supported with sm3, but will Linux work? |
Komaito
Damage over Time The Second Genesis
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 05:50:00 -
[306]
Oh well, its still some time till winter 2009.
But most probably I won't upgrade my system for of Eve then.
My computer is still good enough for the usual stuff, and upgrade just because of Eve? Really not sure about that, I rather stop playing. ------------------------------------ radiation... too much radiation... |
Gargamell Smurf
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 06:18:00 -
[307]
Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 26/01/2009 06:25:32 Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 26/01/2009 06:23:40 Edited by: Gargamell Smurf on 26/01/2009 06:20:57
Originally by: CCP Step 2: In the Winter Expansion 2009 we are -considering- discontinuing support for ShaderModel 2 and make the minimum specification ShaderModel 3(GeForce 6 class cards or ATi x1300 or compatible)
then everyone screamed on the forum.
Originally by: CCP We will however -not- pursue going to ShaderModel 3 as a minimum, at least for now. It's quite apparent that while an overwhelming majority has no problems with moving to ShaderModel 2, there are still quite a few (mostly laptop) users out there that cannot support ShaderModel 3 yet. We're going to continue monitoring hardware trends closely and will revise our plan on a regular basis.
So: They are NOT going with SM3. OK? Everyone get that?
Originally by: Andresky
@ CCP: do we have to expect a framerate loss with the move from classic to premium lite?
This is the real question. If the "downsampling" of SM2 "lite" does not match the performance of the current Classic client, then there is not much benefit to anyone. I EXPECT performance, NOT graphics. We will see. |
Varaxian
Amarr Corp 1 Allstars PuPPet MasTers
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 07:26:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Ma'kal Edited by: Ma''kal on 19/01/2009 18:18:04 I was just wondering if the premium graphics client would require ShaderModel 3? If it did it would be awesome because who doesn't like shiny
....pvp'rs
|
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 10:52:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Lianti The only thing I'm really worried about now (have a SM 2.0 laptop), is the performance and visual quality of the low end graphics that will feature in the 'Lite' client. If you're just downscaling textures/meshes (and maybe even normal maps) you're likely going to end up with a far worse looking solution than the models and textures used in the Classic client, maybe even ending up with worse performance with the added shader effects.
SM3 and SM 2 differences are completely unrelated to texture and model sizes
|
Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 12:31:00 -
[310]
The thing about eve is that a good many older players like myself play it. Players with families, bills and mortgages to pay. I have a cheap laptop that will run SM2 ok, but I'd need to buy a new one if CCP switch to SM3. There's no way I'm going to get rid of a perfectly servicable machine and buy a new one just to play Eve. I love the game (more than is probably natural) but I can't justify spending the amount of cash required to buy a new machine and continue to pay a subscription. At the end of the day, if CCP switch to SM3 as the minimum in the next couple of years I won't subscribe. Not a rage-quit, simple fact - my subscription will just have to sit idle till I upgrade.
I think it's great that CCP have decided not to implement SM3 this year, but if they go ahead and do it Jan 2010 it's pretty much the same thing. Tbh why not just upgrade the premium client and leave those of us with lower-end machines on stripped down SM2. Last time I looked the things people were griping about were not the graphics.
|
|
Naga Ikia
Ero Guro DEFI4NT
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 12:48:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Dagda Morr At the end of the day, if CCP switch to SM3 as the minimum in the next couple of years I won't subscribe. Not a rage-quit, simple fact - my subscription will just have to sit idle till I upgrade.
I think it's great that CCP have decided not to implement SM3 this year, but if they go ahead and do it Jan 2010 it's pretty much the same thing. Tbh why not just upgrade the premium client and leave those of us with lower-end machines on stripped down SM2. Last time I looked the things people were griping about were not the graphics.
Agreed, I'm not going to buy a new machine just to pay eve. Thanks for listening CCP. |
PJRiddick
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 13:02:00 -
[312]
Dagda,..i totally agree,...EVE is like a COCANE addition, never been on drugs myself but one can only imagine. I refer back to a post that i did about a week ago. As i posted i made the plea to CCP to leave the classic client for those that do not have money to upgrade,.....WAIT! I got an idea!,.. OH THIS is soo good too,... You know how people buy GTCs with ISK!!! OMG THIS is soo good! HAY CCP,..... Why dont you supply brand new systems that are SM3 ready with all the bells and whistels for allthe people that can buy them with in game ISK! Oh a couple hundered billion ISK would probably cover it,...dont you think! Sarcasim is not my stroug point here,...bear with me.... but getting ack to reality here for jsut a sec,.....CCP,..this is where its going,....people not being able to afford your game anymore. The new lite client is a good idea actually i think its a great idea but as one person pointed out,."its not the graphics that one wants, its the performance" For me,..ive already spent the multibillion of isk and put together a system that i can be proud of, fast, reliable and, OH yes,...SM3 ready,...GaWD it feels like Y2K all over again. >R< Clatu Verada Nicto Fly safe and save yor ISK for when CCP starts selling SM3 boxes for ISK.
|
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 14:28:00 -
[313]
I do have to wonder if the same people on this thread moaning about their ancient computers (yes - 6 years+ is ancient in PC terms, we've only had the Web for 16 years, 3D acceleration for 12 years) not supporting SM2.0 are the same groups who complain loudly about lag?
It's a common misconception that all lag is server-bound, quite a bit is network-bound and some is client bound (especially if you have a lower-end processor, graphics card, amount of ram or a software sound card.
CCP are, at the end of the day, a business. They have to keep up with other MMOs out there or die, updating the graphics is just one way of acheiving this and that is becoming increasingly hard for them as they (up to now) have been saddled with having to support hardware that gamers in other areas would laugh at (try playing any other modern game with a PC from 2003).
As an example:
World of Warcraft (vomits, then OCD hand-washes), which was released in November 2004 needs, as a recommended spec (anyone who considers themself a "gamer" knows to ignore the minimum specs unless you like playing a powerpoint presentation):
Dual-core processor, such as the Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 X2. 1 GB RAM (2 GB for Vista users). 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT class card or better.
Of course, WoW hasn't had a major graphical overhaul unlike Eve.
Eve's requirements can be located on the Eve website
Disclaimer: I have never and will never actually play WoW.
|
Anathema Silversky
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 14:38:00 -
[314]
why don't you ccp just set up a shader enable/disable option like all normal mmo devs do? i think this will be the most diplomatic decision...u can work for premium only, and people like me wont have to throw away laptops which will be useless...
|
JinChilla
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 16:16:00 -
[315]
Well I have upgraded to SM3, it was not a big deal. Why I have done that? Surly not because of flashy, shiny graphics awaiting me, I just want to see how T3 Ships, Arc Missions and the implementation of SIMS inside spacestations would be...
But what makes me really laugh is, as the devs stated the same thing with other words >>puuff<< everything will gonna be allright. This is a nice comercial move, at least for now
...we are considering discontinuing support for ShaderModel 2... ...we will however not pursue going to ShaderModel 3... , at least for now.
well is the bottle of beer half empty or half full now??
(sry for possibly bad english) MfG ========================================== [2009.01.26 13:48:00]CCP Claw to Kashimir: Don't say that out loud, people might think that we know what we're doing! |
Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 16:50:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Elysarian I do have to wonder if the same people on this thread moaning about their ancient computers (yes - 6 years+ is ancient in PC terms, we've only had the Web for 16 years, 3D acceleration for 12 years) not supporting SM2.0 are the same groups who complain loudly about lag?
It's a common misconception that all lag is server-bound, quite a bit is network-bound and some is client bound (especially if you have a lower-end processor, graphics card, amount of ram or a software sound card.
CCP are, at the end of the day, a business. They have to keep up with other MMOs out there or die, updating the graphics is just one way of acheiving this and that is becoming increasingly hard for them as they (up to now) have been saddled with having to support hardware that gamers in other areas would laugh at (try playing any other modern game with a PC from 2003).
As an example:
World of Warcraft (vomits, then OCD hand-washes), which was released in November 2004 needs, as a recommended spec (anyone who considers themself a "gamer" knows to ignore the minimum specs unless you like playing a powerpoint presentation):
Dual-core processor, such as the Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 X2. 1 GB RAM (2 GB for Vista users). 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT class card or better.
Of course, WoW hasn't had a major graphical overhaul unlike Eve.
Eve's requirements can be located on the Eve website
Disclaimer: I have never and will never actually play WoW.
First up - I fully appreciate that lag is also client based - I run on a cheap laptop and appreciate that fact - I do not and have not ever complained about lag.
We're not just talking about laptops that are 6 years old here. I bought a brand-new machine just over a year ago - moving to SM2 will not be a problem - what will cause problems for myself and many others is switching to SM3.
Let's put it plainly - I do not care about how shiny eve is. I play most of the time with the overview zoomed right out or staring at a bunch of spreadsheet-like screens trading. Of all the complaints about the game, graphical considerations are the least whined about.
I fully appreciate the reasons for dropping classic - developing a single product (toned down for lite) makes good sense. Many of us though - even those who can run SM3 but like to multi-client or need high performance simply do not want an upgrade beyond SM2. If I want pretty graphics I'll play on a console, I the depth of the game which has no bearing on the graphics.
Given how long it's been seen the game was created then switching to SM2 - switching from SM2 to SM3 six months later is certainly going a bit fast.
I may be a lone voice crying out in the wilderness, but the simple fact is that many players have extensive financial commitments and buying a new PC just to play a game in this financial climate just isn't going to happen. This isn't some kiddies X-box game that mum and dad bought for christmas - grown-ups have different priorities and ú300 plus suscription to play Eve just isn't one.
|
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 20:21:00 -
[317]
After careful consideration of everyone's worries and complaints on this subject I have the following proposal:
Premium:
Keep as-is with option for future upgrade to SM4.0 or higher for those of us with the cash/system specs to support this (and the inclination)
but
have options built into this client to switch on/off any graphical niceties that may help the PvP people and others who don't require them - I can't see any reason why it would not be possible to code for different detail levels within the current engine.
Is there any way, using the API, that it would be possible to implement a web interface to chat, skill setting and market?
The latter would allow players to do those things whilst simultaneously reducing the strain on heavily-used nodes within the cluster (e.g. Jita) as the only access required by the web client would be to the database.
I, for one, actually like the premium graphics (and apologise to anyone I may have inadvertantly upset with my previous comments - though I stick by the comment that it's possible to upgrade any desktop with a 2GHz+ processor for a lot less than $100/ú100/Ç100 to run premium gfx). |
Sweetness Sideways
Gallente Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 21:44:00 -
[318]
Edited by: Sweetness Sideways on 26/01/2009 21:44:38
Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Originally by: Sweetness Sideways
ShaderTesterTool
Mobile Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset Family Shader model 1.1 : yes Shader model 1.2 : yes Shader model 1.3 : yes Shader model 1.4 : yes Shader model 2.0 : yes Shader model 2 A : no Shader model 2 B : no Shader model 2 (software): no Shader model 3.0 : no
This is what I got. I assume that this means that I will not need to upgrade? Well at least I can log in and change skills considering that my laptop struggles with classic at this point.
Slade
yes you'll be able to run SM2 & premium Lite |
Johan Civire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 21:49:00 -
[319]
Ok sounds nice but what about the agp versions ? Lets say for explane the 8x agp ati radeon hd3850 (512mb). This suport the 3.0 but, it is a agp. Some day i will hunt you! |
Sweetness Sideways
Gallente Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 22:13:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Johan Civire Ok sounds nice but what about the agp versions ? Lets say for explane the 8x agp ati radeon hd3850 (512mb). This suport the 3.0 but, it is a agp.
agp is still good, on my previous rig i had a amd64 X2 3800+ (so dual core) and a x1600pro 512MB... it was *and is* SM3 (premium GFX capable), just disable the shaddows and u'll get some fps boost :) |
|
Qebh
Purifying Flame - Phoenix Reborn
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 23:46:00 -
[321]
While this or that program can find out if your graphics hardware is AGP or PCI-E (or even plain old PCI, for that matter), it has no reason to care. The data gets transmitted either way.
For most purposes, AGP 8x isn't practically any slower than PCI-E yet, it's just easier to have a single standard, so AGP is being phased out early.
This is my understanding, anyway.
|
Seirkanis
|
Posted - 2009.01.26 23:55:00 -
[322]
Well, if it is possible to downsample the graphics to be compatable with SM2, that begs the question of why this cannot always be the case. Now, compared to the SM4 version, the client may look like crap, but it will still work. The drawback for CCP? Well, obviously maintaining it, but that probably isn't that big a problem since the current code is already there. It also means that they (may) have to keep a separate copy of the texture data and all that will be pushed to the SM2 versions.
As it stands now, it is nice to have the support. In all honesty, I many times turn the premium graphics off on my laptop, and this laptop is a AMD64 laptop with a SM4 NVIDIA card (9600M). It can more than handle it, but sometimes I don't care and like to be able to shift the laptop into what amounts to super-power-save mode. |
Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 04:34:00 -
[323]
How similar to Classic will the polygons/textures be? I didn't really like the direction some of the models took for Premium, and would be rather disappointed if I'm forced to play with 'inferior' looking toys. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
|
Sari Ajantes
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 08:04:00 -
[324]
Edited by: Sari Ajantes on 27/01/2009 08:12:55 Hy CCP .. this is my verry first feedback I never wanted to post anything .. but this subject interests me I have a good pc ,and a laptop, I run classic from both, I dont know if I will be able to use the premium on my laptop, my laptop has grafics issues with clasic client.. it drops fps heavyly I am not an expert but I can guess that he wont like premium.. I oftenly used my laptop at work , but this means I will never do anymore.. no problem , I will just play less from home, this however will totally ruin my plans in getting a second account.. What I want to point out is .. eventhough I had premium graphics capabilities on my desktop pc I still used classic, I hate dieing due to performance issues or bad network.. so i sometimes even turn off my effects, it is verry important not to die.. I hope you will conduct sufficient performance test for this "premium lite", I dont want to die while in a lvl 4 mission or while in fleet pvp, because of fancy grafic eye smacking stuff yes I like nice effects, but .. when performance is at stake I would trade effects for performance big time... Thank you!
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Darkeen
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 08:04:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Gut Punch
You are worried about making the payment on your house and utilities to keep youself (and possibly your family) dry, warm, and fed and you are even thinking about playing a monthly subscription game??? No wonder the economy is in the tank and people want handouts.
Thanks CCP for moving the game forward on the client side along with the servers.
My thoughts exactly. What a looser. If your so short of $$ then stop playnig computer games and pay off some debt with the money our paying per month on this game...
Otherwise buy a Laptop that isnt four years old... and isnt krap.
Regards,
Jason Brisbane
|
Bo'Tox
Amarr Arkor Inc
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 08:08:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Elysarian I do have to wonder if the same people on this thread moaning about their ancient computers (yes - 6 years+ is ancient in PC terms, we've only had the Web for 16 years, 3D acceleration for 12 years) not supporting SM2.0 are the same groups who complain loudly about lag?
I disagree...
3 years is old in the PC world. 4 years is possitively ancient!
|
Darlon Shae
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 10:23:00 -
[327]
I have to inform CCP that all of my 3 accounts will be disabled as soon as Classic client is no longer supported. That is because my computer does not support requirements for new EVE.
Thus my all characters and accounts will be voided due this decision. I did love the decision during Trinity not making this stupid mistake CCP now does - that older ocmputers were not obsoleted for running EVE.
Yours Kautsu |
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 10:31:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Elysarian I do have to wonder if the same people on this thread moaning about their ancient computers (yes - 6 years+ is ancient in PC terms, we've only had the Web for 16 years, 3D acceleration for 12 years) not supporting SM2.0 are the same groups who complain loudly about lag?
It's a common misconception that all lag is server-bound, quite a bit is network-bound and some is client bound (especially if you have a lower-end processor, graphics card, amount of ram or a software sound card.
CCP are, at the end of the day, a business. They have to keep up with other MMOs out there or die, updating the graphics is just one way of acheiving this and that is becoming increasingly hard for them as they (up to now) have been saddled with having to support hardware that gamers in other areas would laugh at (try playing any other modern game with a PC from 2003).
As an example:
World of Warcraft (vomits, then OCD hand-washes), which was released in November 2004 needs, as a recommended spec (anyone who considers themself a "gamer" knows to ignore the minimum specs unless you like playing a powerpoint presentation):
Dual-core processor, such as the Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 X2. 1 GB RAM (2 GB for Vista users). 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT class card or better.
Of course, WoW hasn't had a major graphical overhaul unlike Eve.
Eve's requirements can be located on the Eve website
Disclaimer: I have never and will never actually play WoW.
CCP themselves stated numerous time that most of the lag (the modules not responding and ship not loading) is SERVER issue only!
I have a quad Core Processor 4 GB Ram a 280 series NV card and a 6 MB connection and I stil get the module lag whenever other have it. With my secoind computer with dual core atlhon 64 GF6600 GT and 1 GB ram i have exactly same performance.
And net6work is NOT the issue for sure. In a 200 people battle your computer will be transmitting around 5KBps . Yes I did measured a lot of times. NEver ever network got any close to be a bottleneck in eve. |
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 10:35:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Dagda Morr The thing about eve is that a good many older players like myself play it. Players with families, bills and mortgages to pay. I have a cheap laptop that will run SM2 ok, but I'd need to buy a new one if CCP switch to SM3. There's no way I'm going to get rid of a perfectly servicable machine and buy a new one just to play Eve. I love the game (more than is probably natural) but I can't justify spending the amount of cash required to buy a new machine and continue to pay a subscription. At the end of the day, if CCP switch to SM3 as the minimum in the next couple of years I won't subscribe. Not a rage-quit, simple fact - my subscription will just have to sit idle till I upgrade.
I think it's great that CCP have decided not to implement SM3 this year, but if they go ahead and do it Jan 2010 it's pretty much the same thing. Tbh why not just upgrade the premium client and leave those of us with lower-end machines on stripped down SM2. Last time I looked the things people were griping about were not the graphics.
so cancel your sub now. Because you may be sure SOMEDAY they will do this move. Its simply ilogical to not do so. Would you think is sane to keep support for Glide3D when the last implementation in hardware of that API was in 1999 ? Hell no! Same will happen to SM2 someday |
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 10:43:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Mene Ya well i will see what the light version will change to me... i buy 10 months ago a special 200$ boost Ati Saphire 2600 XT /512ram special for AGP platforms (have Direct X10 if you put Vista) running on Barton 2,6 GHz/1 G ram - to see premium... and? i can't see even now some constructions bunkers or sentry in missions in game. I send to CCP my directx and what they want. They say to me to disable the anti-aliasing... But heyyyoooo this graphic card DON'T HAVE the disable option, in fact have 4 option Smoothvision HD anti-aliasing and another Adaptive Anti-aliasing supersampling and multisampling so dear CCP ??... what i choose? heheheheheh
You may be sure it does have the option. Just likely somewhere else in the menu. Should be somethignlike "application controlled" |
|
Darlon Shae
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 10:55:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Elysarian I do have to wonder if the same people on this thread moaning about their ancient computers (yes - 6 years+ is ancient in PC terms, we've only had the Web for 16 years, 3D acceleration for 12 years) not supporting SM2.0 are the same groups who complain loudly about lag?
Apparently you disagree with decision CCP did when Trinity came out - that they did optimize the client (CLassic Client) for those with older computers, and got new clietn with really pretty ships but no actual additional content.
That was good decision. Not everyone wants pretty graphics - I would play this game with ELITE graphics, because I loved the *content*.
But I am not going to invest 300 or 600 EURos to new computer to run EVE. And I do not expect anyone else to do so. My ancient computer had run EVE quite nicely, and the recent server structure modifications had made the glogged systems run better - but those glogged systems were glogged with better computers too. Thus the lag was *SERVER* side problem.
Quote: As an example:
World of Warcraft (vomits, then OCD hand-washes), which was released in November 2004 needs, as a recommended spec (anyone who considers themself a "gamer" knows to ignore the minimum specs unless you like playing a powerpoint presentation):
Dual-core processor, such as the Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 X2. 1 GB RAM (2 GB for Vista users). 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT class card or better.
Of course, WoW hasn't had a major graphical overhaul unlike Eve.
Eve's requirements can be located on the Eve website
Disclaimer: I have never and will never actually play WoW.
I do think it is really bad decision to discontinue support of older computers for game. Because not everyone think *gamer* is someone like you are. I am gamer. But I do expect content, not pretty colors. I hated XP, loved Waterfall of XP beta. I do still play 10 to 20 years old games due they have more content than most new games.
Yours Kautsu |
Darlon Shae
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 11:07:00 -
[332]
Another thing -
Next time, put comment suggestion query into News all EVE players see when logging in.
I am more than a bit outraged to hear that you think you asked comments for all players when you asked comments for those who actively read dev blogs.
I rarely log into forums - I actually do so only when some news item indicates there is something *IMPORTANT* out there, or some other player informs me there is something important going on.
Like this item.
But, you can ignore my comments, because I am not going to be CCP customer any longer. That is because CCP forced my hand by making my computer obsolete for this great game.
I loved the game even with numerous annoying bugs and fixes which have broken working systems. I loved it because it was only at least decently made spacefaring MMORPG. I think the content of EVE has been great.
And after reading the comments, it appears I am not alone. CCP has made several really stupid decisions during last year. I personally think that getting 10 new gamers in expense of 20 old gamers is just plain stupid.
Yours Kautsu |
Doublewhopper
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 12:12:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Elysarian I do have to wonder if the same people on this thread moaning about their ancient computers (yes - 6 years+ is ancient in PC terms, we've only had the Web for 16 years, 3D acceleration for 12 years) not supporting SM2.0 are the same groups who complain loudly about lag?
It's a common misconception that all lag is server-bound, quite a bit is network-bound and some is client bound (especially if you have a lower-end processor, graphics card, amount of ram or a software sound card.
CCP are, at the end of the day, a business. They have to keep up with other MMOs out there or die, updating the graphics is just one way of acheiving this and that is becoming increasingly hard for them as they (up to now) have been saddled with having to support hardware that gamers in other areas would laugh at (try playing any other modern game with a PC from 2003).
As an example:
World of Warcraft (vomits, then OCD hand-washes), which was released in November 2004 needs, as a recommended spec (anyone who considers themself a "gamer" knows to ignore the minimum specs unless you like playing a powerpoint presentation):
Dual-core processor, such as the Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 X2. 1 GB RAM (2 GB for Vista users). 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT class card or better.
Of course, WoW hasn't had a major graphical overhaul unlike Eve.
Eve's requirements can be located on the Eve website
Disclaimer: I have never and will never actually play WoW.
You totally miss the point.
I do not care about lag. I do not care about great graphics. I do not care what you think a gamer is.
But this is the situation for many people:
They run alts on an alt-encouraging game, using the hardware that they have or have gotten cheaply. This means mostly laptops.
Now when the classic client goes away, i simply loose functionality. I do not expect to do PVP or lag-free missions or whatever high-end stuff on my 6 year old laptop.
I do however need it to haul afk across empire, use it to trade in the market and do some mining with it. All that is lost now. The laptop(s) did it just fine and nobody expected them to do more.
Now you need to get new hardware for those secondary tasks and that seems unreasonable.
So the basic hardware requirements of WoW are exactly the thing we are talking about. Not the recommended ones. The Geforce 2 is enough in WoW to chat and to walk your character from A to B.
The same should be possible in EVE as it used to be. |
Guterro d'Tefiane
Einherjar Rising Cry Havoc.
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 13:11:00 -
[334]
I use my laptop often to change skills. Good move. |
Uchukukan
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 13:28:00 -
[335]
Not to sound cold and unsympathetic but to all those leaving -
So long... (can I have your stuff;P)
If CCP doesn't force through these changes EVE will die to competetors.
It's not to do with pretty graphics or any of the other excuses raised in this thread. They need to adapt to the market. |
Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 13:35:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
so cancel your sub now. Because you may be sure SOMEDAY they will do this move. Its simply ilogical to not do so. Would you think is sane to keep support for Glide3D when the last implementation in hardware of that API was in 1999 ? Hell no! Same will happen to SM2 someday
That's an absolutely stupid comment - but since I've got time to waste I'll reply anyhow.
I fully appreciate that the client will be updated - I expect it and welcome it to an extent. If you see my earlier post you will see that I think the upgrade to SM2 is going to be good. My objection is to then upgrade to SM3 six months later.
I will be buying a new PC when the one I have is no longer fit for purpose - but bear in mind that one of the unique fetures about eve is that is always has and should (in my opinion) run on older machines. My older machine is perfectly good for everyting else that I use it for so why change it?
If the change is so vital, why was the upgrade from SM1 to SM2 so late in the day? Everything changes and everything upgrades in the end but the move to SM3 was a little too soon IN MY OPINION. It's very simple, no ragequit or whining - if Eve switched to SM3 before I do I won't play EVE till I upgrade.
For those of you with newer, better machines - why do you even care since you can just run premium regardless? |
vanBuskirk
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 14:00:00 -
[337]
Sorry if this has already been said; but would it be possible to create a program like the one that was put out by CCP when Premium came out, to test your machine for Premium Lite capability (which as I understand it means that it is SM2 compatible) ?
And do it now, or as soon as possible, so that those of us who will need to buy new equipment can save up?
In my case, my desktop is 5 years old and wasn't all that high-end when I bought it, and it won't run Premium. Neither will my laptop, of similar vintage although the laptop was bleeding-edge when I bought it. I much doubt that upgrading the graphics card, in a 1GB box sporting a Sempron 2400, would be worth the effort.
It might also be nice to have specs available in the same manner that the publishers of Entropia have done; minimum, acceptable and optimum. Being able to change skills and adjust market orders requires less than serious fighting, even if the fighting is only against NPCs.
|
Seishi Maru
Ministry of War
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 14:16:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Dagda Morr
Originally by: Seishi Maru
so cancel your sub now. Because you may be sure SOMEDAY they will do this move. Its simply ilogical to not do so. Would you think is sane to keep support for Glide3D when the last implementation in hardware of that API was in 1999 ? Hell no! Same will happen to SM2 someday
That's an absolutely stupid comment - but since I've got time to waste I'll reply anyhow.
I fully appreciate that the client will be updated - I expect it and welcome it to an extent. If you see my earlier post you will see that I think the upgrade to SM2 is going to be good. My objection is to then upgrade to SM3 six months later.
I will be buying a new PC when the one I have is no longer fit for purpose - but bear in mind that one of the unique fetures about eve is that is always has and should (in my opinion) run on older machines. My older machine is perfectly good for everyting else that I use it for so why change it?
If the change is so vital, why was the upgrade from SM1 to SM2 so late in the day? Everything changes and everything upgrades in the end but the move to SM3 was a little too soon IN MY OPINION. It's very simple, no ragequit or whining - if Eve switched to SM3 before I do I won't play EVE till I upgrade.
For those of you with newer, better machines - why do you even care since you can just run premium regardless?
Its not stupid is reality. CCP cannot continueimplementignnew stuff while still supportign completely different code fromprevious generation. That wil eventually reach a too big overhead in development. At one point in future they will drop SM2.
And its simply impossible to be sure absolutely everyonhe will be able to run the new client today, or whenever that happens. Its simple fact taht SOME people that are sttuborn on playing on very inadequate hardware will at some point have to face the decision of upgrading or stop playing.
You cannot evade that, neiher CCP neither any company that wants to keep a product 10 years in market and keep it as a capable competition in the market.
|
Dagda Morr
Seppuku Warriors
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 14:51:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Its not stupid is reality. CCP cannot continueimplementignnew stuff while still supportign completely different code fromprevious generation. That wil eventually reach a too big overhead in development. At one point in future they will drop SM2.
And its simply impossible to be sure absolutely everyonhe will be able to run the new client today, or whenever that happens. Its simple fact taht SOME people that are sttuborn on playing on very inadequate hardware will at some point have to face the decision of upgrading or stop playing.
You cannot evade that, neiher CCP neither any company that wants to keep a product 10 years in market and keep it as a capable competition in the market.
I agree with you - 100%, but switching to SM2 after building a reputation for running on legacy machines, then switching again to SM3 6 onths later is too fast. If it's better paced people have time to adjust to the idea that their legacy machines need to be upgraded to newer (I accept still old) machines. That is the whole point of having a lite version - if it's not lite enough why bother with the effort?
And you are right again that people will have to upgrade - but it's much less of a burden to buy a cheap used machine that can accomodate SM2 than having to buy a new SM3 compatible machine. A year at most 2 down the line SM2 can be dropped.
The fact that EVE has a lite client is in it's self a selling point - remove that niche and you're on the road to being just another space MMO
|
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 17:56:00 -
[340]
I have a feeling I might have worked out why CCP are pushing for higher shader model support...
A quick search for "Elite4" on google reveals that Frontier Developments are to release it in 2009, after the release of another title called "The Outsider"...
Further research shows that this game is to be multiplayer...
My question is thus: Are CCP afraid that we might defect to Elite if it proves to be as good as the original(s) (I'm of course referring to content here, not graphics)?
In response to the people who obviously have not read the dev blog properly or actually read many posts on this thread:
CCP Are considering removing SM2.0 support later in 2009 - they have not said this is a definate! |
|
Katy Karkinoff
Minmatar Psycho Chicks
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 18:09:00 -
[341]
While it's cool you guys are pushing for maintaining a gorgeous appearance for eve, I'm concerned that I'm going to be phased out if/when you release SM 3.0 only. I'm in college now and I'm flat broke. I've wanted a new computer for some time now but haven't found the cash to do it.
It would be kind of disappointing after my 2 years now (short to, long to others) I had to just give it all up because of a graphics update. Anyways, here's for the best of luck and hopes either a: I somehow magically attain a new comp b: premium lite is around for a while ^^ |
Ms Massacre
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 18:21:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Uchukukan Not to sound cold and unsympathetic but to all those leaving -
So long... (can I have your stuff;P)
If CCP doesn't force through these changes EVE will die to competetors.
It's not to do with pretty graphics or any of the other excuses raised in this thread. They need to adapt to the market.
what competitors? I can't think of any other game that could steal EvE's players. no other game comes within 20 miles of the quality of eve's graphics, classic is still impressive relative to most, and trinity outright trumps everyone else. What other MMO has even remotely similar demographics for customers? EvE is aimed at those he have some patience, dedication, and (in most circumstances) some general logic. Every other MMO is tailored to 10 year olds who can't wait more than 10 minutes for something to happen.
EvE makes you work to get something, and there is a risk to lose it all. Very rarely do you come across someone who's identical to you. In other MMO's with elves and orcs: There is a hard cap, easily attainable, and once you get there everyone is the same.
/rantoff. |
Avaraseero
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 19:04:00 -
[343]
CCP dont make ppl buy new machines, find a way to keep happy even the ppl who cant afford spending more
|
Gargamell Smurf
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 19:59:00 -
[344]
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=617
They are NOT going with SM3. NOT THIS WINTER. Not until most everyone can handle it. OK? Everyone get that?
|
Uchukukan
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 22:10:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Ms Massacre
Originally by: Uchukukan Not to sound cold and unsympathetic but to all those leaving -
So long... (can I have your stuff;P)
If CCP doesn't force through these changes EVE will die to competetors.
It's not to do with pretty graphics or any of the other excuses raised in this thread. They need to adapt to the market.
what competitors?
Jumpgate evolution springs to mind (already mentioned in this thread) there's also the Star Trek mmo that looks promising.
This change will come about eventually and the Luddite's will have to adapt or stop playing. |
Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
|
Posted - 2009.01.27 22:38:00 -
[346]
Originally by: Uchukukan
Jumpgate evolution springs to mind (already mentioned in this thread) there's also the Star Trek mmo that looks promising.
This change will come about eventually and the Luddite's will have to adapt or stop playing.
And why exactly improving the game while KEEPING support for old hardware (like they were doing), makes people go away? Not improving the game, yes, I can see it as an opening for competition, but that is not the case in the current situation.
Arbitrarily raising specs is a draconian decision that serves nobody but the lazyness of the company.
|
Karaun Xavura
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 13:02:00 -
[347]
Edited by: Karaun Xavura on 28/01/2009 13:06:52 You can get a card that supports SM 2.0 for ú20/$30, maybe even less. The complainers are funny but the people threatening to quit, that's just hilarious.
"Wah wah wah CCP is forcing me to pay $2000 for a new computer." "Boo hoo hoo I can't run 200 clients any more on my 10 year old graphics card."
Get a grip.
I have a crappy part time job and lots of big bills to pay, yet I can afford to get a SM 2.0 compatible graphics card.
Once more: You can get a card that supports SM 2.0 for ú20/$30, maybe even less...
[EDIT]
I just found a card that supports Shader Model 3.0 for ú30/$40 (nVidia GeForce 6200 256MB).
You don't even need THAT. All you need is a card that supports Shader Model 2.0 because CCP have decided to not go with the 3.0 idea. It seems a lot of people seem to think they are requiring 3.0, try reading the blog. ---------------------
|
Sol Alria
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 20:59:00 -
[348]
To the players:
I am a Full-time student with a full-time job. I am going to buy a new computer with Shader 3 capability. The cost of playing this game in the long term is far less than buying an X-box/PS3/Wii or whatever (and please don't turn this into a which console box is better) plus the games to go with the console. Do some math and this game, even with the cost of a new computer, is a much cheaper option than the alternatives... and why would you want to continue to play on a computer with and integrated graphics adapter, anyway?
HOWEVER!!!
CCP: You need to make skills, not just viewable, but accessible via web browser. If you force such a drastic change in minimum requirements, please allow those of us who need time to gather funds for the new purchase, to be able to keep our training up to date.
|
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.28 22:10:00 -
[349]
Edited by: Elysarian on 28/01/2009 22:14:23 How many times does someone who's actually taken the time to read the devblogs AND keep up with this thread have to explain to some moron that CCP are NOT making SM3.0 a requirement, they are only dropping SM1.0 and making the entry-level a card with SM2.0...
I have, along with other posters, listed options for people with limited resources and which onboard graphics chipsets (anything with an Intel GMA950 or higher for the lazy) will be compatible with Premium Lite.
===================================== It smells of spoon! ===================================== |
Monk Girl
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 05:40:00 -
[350]
Well, I have to confess that I have not had a hand in the decision (because I did not comment).
However, most of the complaints from people all seem to be in regards to 5/6 year old computers.
Tell me dear chaps, how long do you want eve to support your laptop/desktops graphics?, another 5 years perhaps? This is not realistic, and to date I think CCP have done a very nice job of keeping Eve client side quite light. However it is now getting developer heavy, thus the required hardware has to be revisited.
I am not surprised by this, and I am sure many of you whilst griping and quite possibly in full knowledge that it will impact your gaming experience will understand that it is a market necessity. In a couple or years time (or less) I suspect shader 2.0 will also be out the door on its arse. If they forced you into Shader 3.0 graphics territory, which is PC's from around 18 months old then yes I could see the issue, however we are not. I do accept however that with the world market going into melt down most large firms will not be recycling there PC's quite as soon as before (thus providing access to cheap 2.0 PC's).
Does this make me a CCP fanboy?, well I hope not because things like the walking around station's thing sux imo, and I would rather see skill queing, and new ship models for the 30 variations of 1 ship (like the Marauders, did they really need to use the same base model? - Yawn). There are many things I would like to grip about, but not this.
And as sombody did point out, new PC's costing sub ú300 for netbooks can run SM2.0 so finding a ú100 or less second hand PC will not kill you, or your could bring forward the upgrade of your main PC should you be using it primarly for an alt. In some cases a simple graphics card upgrade (for you PC owners) will cost you about ú15 and is quite easy to do.
On a different topic, I suspect XP only has about 2-3 years of support from CCP tops, and will soon be lite version only.
And I agree with the other chap, Premium and Premium Lite is a stupid idea. Eve Premium & Eve Lite makes more sense.
|
|
Jack Calypo
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 06:35:00 -
[351]
My labtop has this card http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-Go-6150.6945.0.html
Does it work after 10 of march?
Yes or No
|
Sindell Moondragon
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 10:33:00 -
[352]
my laptop is new but still I cant run the premium version on it, so if this shaderstuff goes live I wont be able to play eve anymore. I will not buy a solid standing pc coz there is no room for it plus I need to be mobile. Guess ill be handing in my pilot's license when it comes.
|
Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 11:46:00 -
[353]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 29/01/2009 11:46:52
Originally by: Elysarian How many times does someone who's actually taken the time to read the devblogs AND keep up with this thread have to explain to some moron that CCP are NOT making SM3.0 a requirement, they are only dropping SM1.0 and making the entry-level a card with SM2.0...
Ok... You don't know how CCP works, don't you ?
When a dev blog is published, the change will be done at the fixed ETA. Same if there are legitimate complains (missile nerf, shield more nerfed than armor, etc...), same if they unbalance something, they simply don't care.
CCP stated that they wanted raise to SM 3.0 minimum at End 2009 ? They will certainly do it at End 2009, same if they told us that it is cancelled for the moment. After all, they did some estimations (estimations pff...) than 95% of players would have a SM 3.0 card for this ETA, so I don't see why they would stop this change. They just wanted to stop the potential bad advert that the dev blog created...
The only moment where CCP really retreated was the Capital Nerf. I don't remember for anything else. ___________________
EVE "Community" become more like WoW each day, with his fanboy attitude. Simplistic logic, Lazy thinking, No capacity to comprehend same a justified whine... |
Gunter Bahad
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 13:14:00 -
[354]
I am curious though. Does this mean that Linux will get a Premium client now? Or will that now be the alternative? |
Gunter Bahad
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 13:16:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Jack Calypo My labtop has this card http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-Go-6150.6945.0.html
Does it work after 10 of march?
Yes or No
It does Shader 3. So yes. |
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 16:04:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Sky Marshal Edited by: Sky Marshal on 29/01/2009 11:46:52
Originally by: Elysarian How many times does someone who's actually taken the time to read the devblogs AND keep up with this thread have to explain to some moron that CCP are NOT making SM3.0 a requirement, they are only dropping SM1.0 and making the entry-level a card with SM2.0...
Ok... You don't know how CCP works, don't you ?
When a dev blog is published, the change will be done at the fixed ETA. Same if there are legitimate complains (missile nerf, shield more nerfed than armor, etc...), same if they unbalance something, they simply don't care.
CCP stated that they wanted raise to SM 3.0 minimum at End 2009 ? They will certainly do it at End 2009, same if they told us that it is cancelled for the moment. After all, they did some estimations (estimations pff...) than 95% of players would have a SM 3.0 card for this ETA, so I don't see why they would stop this change. They just wanted to stop the potential bad advert that the dev blog created...
The only moment where CCP really retreated was the Capital Nerf. I don't remember for anything else.
Quote:
Step 2: In the Winter Expansion 2009 we are considering discontinuing support for ShaderModel 2 and make the minimum specification ShaderModel 3(GeForce 6 class cards or ATi x1300 or compatible)
Notice the word "considering" in there?
That means it isn't set in stone - in light of this thread (I assume at least one dev is following it) I'm willing to bet they won't force SM 3.0 on everyone. ===================================== It smells of spoon! ===================================== |
Tallaran Kouros
Caldari Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 16:49:00 -
[357]
Originally by: Dagda Morr
I will be buying a new PC when the one I have is no longer fit for purpose
Ok, i'll bite.
Go on then, post your specification.
What's your CPU, how much RAM do you have and what sort of expansion slot do you have in your motherboard?
I think it's a safe bet to say that you have absolutely no *need* to buy a new PC and in fact, can probably drop $50 and buy a graphics card off eBay that will suffice.
I appreciate there are recessions and what not but really, if you enjoy Eve so much and if it's such an important hobby then $50 really isn't all that much for something that will enable to you continue your hobby and improve your frame rate to boot.
Quote: For those of you with newer, better machines - why do you even care since you can just run premium regardless?
Because from reading this thread it's pretty apparent that the vast majority of people have no idea what they are talking about.
You can buy a cheap graphics card off eBay for next to nothing that will enable to you keep playing Eve - nobody is forcing you to buy a new PC.
But don't let me stand in the way of everyone's winge fest, i've just been building PCs for 12 years, and playing games for 18 years - what do I know?
Sheesh.
|
Tallaran Kouros
Caldari Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 16:55:00 -
[358]
I just looked on eBay there and I see one currently at $12.50, 5 days left on the auction.
Most people here probably wouldn't hesitate to spend more than the cost of a compatable gfx card on a round of drinks down the pub on a Friday night.
|
Invisitron
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 20:13:00 -
[359]
This is a major change in EvE as I see it.
To me EvE is a game I retire to when getting tired of all the fuss and colors in top Gfx games. Here it's not about nice effects or impressive graphics. It's about content and people. About being able to enjoy the gameplay with you friends - without the disturbance of constant upgrades or HW considerations.
EvE works on your workstation, on the spare computer and even on the work laptop in the hotel room when traveling. This is one of the unique things about EvE you can have it along and be in contact with you friends, change skills or just loose a fortune on investing wrong on the market place. If EvE can no longer be the social game you can have with you I see other alternatives.
From the corp mails I see people I enjoy flying with are leaving or thinking of leaving - even though I have one computer that will run EvE I'm not gonna be around for long if the universe is swamped with players attracted by flashy graphics and not investing time in the gameplay and communities.
Time will tell how this goes. I think the focus on content and gameplay and not graphics has made EvE something that stands out compared to other online games. This move will narrow the gap and I think more dedicated people will leave than come to EvE.
My main box will run EvE just fine but the laptop for the alt 'salvager' account is no good and I'm not getting a new one just for that (So that's one sub down CCP - Might be some money in commission for transferring the chars to the main account).
I wish all the people leaving the best of luck going other places. I will stay and look at the new pretty pictures on the screen but if the content is sacrificed I will join you in some months. |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 21:03:00 -
[360]
My only concern with this issue is the annoying spanking animation while you're docked to station. Make ships standing still as they are in classic and all will be good. I may even forgive the loss of shinyness on Amarr ships for that matter. |
|
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 21:09:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Invisitron This is a major change in EvE as I see it.
[snip]
So much agree. If that change were to improve speed and shift load balance from CPU to GPU, it wouldn't be that much of a change. But Premium works better only on the top-line systems, on somewhat middle-to-low it's plain sucks, 10 FPS instead of 25-30 in classic and no way to improve it by any settings. On the contrary, Classic has much of a tune to tweak it for your needs, with wide results from 15 to 40 FPS on the same system and in the same scene. |
Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2009.01.29 23:10:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Elysarian Notice the word "considering" in there?
That means it isn't set in stone - in light of this thread (I assume at least one dev is following it) I'm willing to bet they won't force SM 3.0 on everyone.
"Considering" in CCP language means "Already planified".
There was too much precedents where CCP asked for feedback, advices or also "considering" some modifications, but in all cases they just make their changes as they wished in the very first place...
You trust CCP, I don't anymore. |
Eleethal
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 20:18:00 -
[363]
I am all for Shadermodel 2, but please please please do not make the minimum Shadermodel 3, that would ruin my chance to play on either of my 3 computers. My best GFX card is a GeForce FX 5600. I beta tested EVE and I still have another account that is >5 years old. I LOVE EVE.
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Tink3r Tr0n
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 20:46:00 -
[364]
I have a question for you guys. Right now I run eve on a crappy system. 3700+ AMD Athlon (2.4 gig single core) 2 gigs of ram, NVIDIA 6800GT 256mb AGP SM3, Windows XP
I can run Premium Client on Normal/Medium with no stutter unless i'm in jita with 1000+ other pilots.
Once this Xpac hits and Ambulation will I need to upgrade to run it on anything other then low? I know they still support SM2/3 but my PC is Six years old.
Kinda worried that Eve will look and run like laggy ****.
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Admiral Kassiea
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 21:10:00 -
[365]
Edited by: Admiral Kassiea on 30/01/2009 21:12:21 To Avon,
If you cannot afford, or do not want to buy a computer that is going to be capable of playing EVE after March, then just quit.
Im sick of your constant whinning in every single god dam thread, do you honestly think we care about you, like were all going to go, OMG AVON CANT PLAY ANYMORE, CANCEL THE UPGRADE CCP!
Expecting CCP to send you a new computer that is capable of running EVE is funny or replying to everyone who talks to you saying, well send me one is just lame, if i was CCP my reply to you would be, get a better job.
Trust me, by now CCP know that your not a happy customer, they have taken that into account and decided to contiune with the upgrade.
Nobody cares if you cant play anymore, and at the end of the day if your not prepared to upgrade your computer for a small amount of cash to contiune playing EVE, well then you obviously dont enjoy EVE that much.
And if that is the case your not going to really be bothered about quitting, i know having to upgrade every few years suck, but thats the gaming industry, and im guessing the only game you play is EVE, otherwise you would know this.
This is no diffrent to any other game in the world, Red Alert Two requires a more powerful PC then Red Alert, it happens and in a way ditching the classic graphics and upgrading to EVE Premium Lite is EVE Two, and EVE has been out for comming upto six years now, there are several other space MMO's in development, and EVE has gotta contiune competing graphics wise.
Yes i relise that EVE is an MMO, and no other MMO's are doing this, but thats because they cant be bothered and are lazy, or its simply too much work, if you take WoW for example, there are SO many assets in that game that to upgrade them all would take years even with a big team, and that will cost alot of money.
If you never ever want this to happen buy a console, then you can feel happy in the knowledge that any game ever released for that console will be supported. |
Johan Civire
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 22:03:00 -
[366]
Edited by: Johan Civire on 30/01/2009 22:04:44 Well i love the upgrade on graphics however iam using a very old pc. with premium graphics. Me rigs is maxs out. Lets say the main bord is buildt in 1999 yah i know very old but works till today. 7 days 53 weeks 356 days on. (some times it restart upgrade ) However if you cheq qdi koduz 7x/400a in google you will suprise that this bord is still working without any problems. So if you have pc problem and lesser then 3 years old you need to be a moron sorry for the bad word ccp. But its so easy to upgrade a rig (pc). If you buy a laptop and say i can not run eve? you need to stop buying laptops. Or use it only for website and msn. And if you dont have $$$ dont worry play on LOW graphics its that so hard to explane? |
rofflesausage
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 22:09:00 -
[367]
My main issue, like most other people comes with skill changing. I often do this at work by running eve from a pendrive.
Most work machines won't even support SM2 which is a pain.
It's about time we either had a skill queue, or access to change skills via the API. The computer industry is evolving at its quickest rate ever, Eve needs to keep up. |
zippodee
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 22:11:00 -
[368]
I have no idea how this graphic thing is gonna affect me as i am just a simple guy playing a game, I have a radeon HD 2600 pro in my computer will that be ok to run the new thing coming out? |
MAXAMOUS
|
Posted - 2009.01.30 22:11:00 -
[369]
Will my digital TV converter box work for this? |
Varna
Caldari Cryodyne LTD
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Posted - 2009.01.30 22:17:00 -
[370]
Cool :) if it helps: Elite for those people who cant keep up... its... amazingly eve-(l)-ish... |
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Johan Civire
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.30 22:18:00 -
[371]
Edited by: Johan Civire on 30/01/2009 22:21:11
Originally by: zippodee I have no idea how this graphic thing is gonna affect me as i am just a simple guy playing a game, I have a radeon HD 2600 pro in my computer will that be ok to run the new thing coming out?
Yes the graphics card works . See below for more details about the PCI EXPRESS card not agp
ATI RadeonÖ HD 2600 Feature Summary 390 million transistors on 65nm fabrication process 128-bit DDR2/GDDR3/GDDR4 memory interface Ring Bus Memory Controller Fully distributed design with 256-bit internal ring bus for memory reads and writes Unified Superscalar Shader Architecture 120 stream processing units Dynamic load balancing and resource allocation for vertex, geometry, and pixel shaders Common instruction set and texture unit access supported for all types of shaders Dedicated branch execution units and texture address processors 128-bit floating point precision for all operations Command processor for reduced CPU overhead Shader instruction and constant caches Up to 40 texture fetches per clock cycle Up to 128 textures per pixel Fully associative multi-level texture cache design DXTC and 3Dc+ texture compression High resolution texture support (up to 8192 x 8192) Fully associative texture Z/stencil cache designs Double-sided hierarchical Z/stencil buffer Early Z test, Re-Z, Z Range optimization, and Fast Z Clear Lossless Z & stencil compression (up to 128:1) Lossless color compression (up to 8:1) 8 render targets (MRTs) with anti-aliasing support Physics processing support Full support for Microsoft« DirectX« 10.0 Shader Model 4.0 YOU HAVE 4.0 you need 2.0 So no problem for running it (the new graphics) Geometry Shaders Stream Output Integer and Bitwise Operations Alpha to Coverage Constant Buffers State Objects Texture Arrays Dynamic Geometry Acceleration High performance vertex cache Programmable tessellation unit Accelerated geometry shader path for geometry amplification Memory read/write cache for improved stream output performance Anti-aliasing features Multi-sample anti-aliasing (up to 8 samples per pixel) Up to 24x Custom Filter Anti-Aliasing (CFAA) for improved quality Adaptive super-sampling and multi-sampling Temporal anti-aliasing Gamma correct Super AA (CrossFire configurations only) All anti-aliasing features compatible with HDR rendering Texture filtering features 2x/4x/8x/16x high quality adaptive anisotropic filtering modes (up to 128 taps per pixel) 128-bit floating point HDR texture filtering Bicubic filtering sRGB filtering (gamma/degamma) Percentage Closer Filtering (PCF) Depth & stencil texture (DST) format support Shared exponent HDR (RGBE 9:9:9:5) texture format support CrossFireÖ Multi-GPU Technology Scale up rendering performance and image quality with 2 or more GPUs Integrated compositing engine High performance dual channel interconnect ATI AvivoÖ HD Video and Display Platform Dedicated unified video decoder (UVD) for H.264/AVC and VC-1 video formats High definition (HD) playback of both Blu-ray and HD DVD formats Hardware MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4/DivX video decode acceleration Motion compensation and iDCT (inverse discrete cosine transform) Avivo Video Post Processor Color space conversion Chroma subsampling format conversion Horizontal and vertical scaling Gamma correction High Quality Video Post Processing Advanced vector adaptive per-pixel de-interlacing De-blocking and noise reduction filtering Detail enhancement Inverse telecine (2:2 and 3:2 pull-down correction) Bad edit correction Two independent display controllers Drive two displays simultaneously with independent resolutions, refresh rates, color controls and video overlays for each display Full 30-bit display processing Programmable piecewise linear gamma correction, color correction, and color space conversion Spatial/temporal dithering provides 30-bit color quality on 24-bit and 18-bit displays High quality pre- and p |
Tray 'dhor
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Posted - 2009.01.30 22:48:00 -
[372]
this is BS as you will lose alot of players that will no longer be able to play please consider a degrade option so players can continue playing eve.
One of the best points of eve was the ability to still play with low system requirements unlike newer games that continue to require higher and higher specs. this definately will lower your subscriber list
Thanks for listening |
balvason
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Posted - 2009.01.30 22:53:00 -
[373]
Once again ccp strike with a wonderful decision and great support...
NOT...
TAKES THEM 7 DAYS TO REPLY TO SIMPLE PETITION AND NOW THEY ARE DRIVING THE POOR AWAY FROM THE GAME...
thanks alot for the time ccp well done... in case you havn't noticed ... not everyone is millionairs like your selves... and not all of the player in game can afford the upgrade.
so my home address for you to send new computer so i will continue paying for the game is
unit 13 26-30 stewart st australia
thanks again for the new pc
Balvason |
Shintai
Gallente Balad Naran Orbital Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.01.30 22:55:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Tray 'dhor this is BS as you will lose alot of players that will no longer be able to play please consider a degrade option so players can continue playing eve.
One of the best points of eve was the ability to still play with low system requirements unlike newer games that continue to require higher and higher specs. this definately will lower your subscriber list
Thanks for listening
Not true. And we talk about equipment thats older than 5-6 years that wont work. And if you got so old gear. You could buy a 30$ GFX card and double or more your GFX performance.
However the Geforce5 should not really be in the list with its "bolted on" SM2.0. Its horrible slow. Support yes, any performance no. A software renderer would be faster. |
johnygoodboytyler
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Posted - 2009.01.30 22:58:00 -
[375]
yep i am a victim of this i play this game because i can on this computer i dont need to upgrade but now i will need to fork out 3-400 quid just to play a game i have been on for 4 years thx
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balvason
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:04:00 -
[376]
and i don't care its slow... it works... thats all i care about
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Wat4shi
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:06:00 -
[377]
I don't know much about video cards, I got a ATI X850. Will I still be able to run Eve or do I have to find a new game? |
Ramirez Dora
Small Hadron Collider
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:10:00 -
[378]
I'm currently running the Premium client but in Classic mode. This is due to the fact that my Shader 3 graphics card died last year and the quick replacement I got only supported Shader 2.
I am assuming I won't have to download the entire Premium Light client and that the Premium client has a mode to switch to Light. |
Ramirez Dora
Small Hadron Collider
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:11:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Wat4shi I don't know much about video cards, I got a ATI X850. Will I still be able to run Eve or do I have to find a new game?
The X850 will have no problem with Premium Light. :) |
balvason
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:15:00 -
[380]
just cause i love giveing my money away so i can fly around in a fantasy world i am going to "try" and use the premium client
dell pc's arn't the best but |
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Commander Ventura
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:21:00 -
[381]
Edited by: Commander Ventura on 30/01/2009 23:30:33 Hi i am using Eve classic graphics can i continue to use this or will this change affect me using EVE online ? or can i still use eve primum graphics. |
Varna
Caldari Cryodyne LTD
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:35:00 -
[382]
Originally by: johnygoodboytyler yep i am a victim of this i play this game because i can on this computer i dont need to upgrade but now i will need to fork out 3-400 quid just to play a game i have been on for 4 years thx
they sell good 2nd hand pc for 100 euro, insert a decent card (if not already in the machine) and your good to go. for 400 you buy 2 of those cheap machines. just dont try to run multiple eve on one system since I/O to disk is normally not very optimal) example: Compaq Evo D51s sff Pentium 4
Pentium 4 2.4 GHZ 512 MB (1024mb i.p.v 512mb + 20,- euro) 40.0 GB Netwerkkaart Sound Videokaart CD-ROM (DVD-RW (nieuw) i.p.v CD-ROM + 25,-) Floppy USB XP PRO Licentie COA Drie maanden Garantie Prijs: 2.4 GHZ Ç 79,- incl. BTW
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Indec
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:36:00 -
[383]
To everyone complaining, this is something that has to happen sooner or later. If this would have been announced a year or half a year later would you still complain that you can't afford the upgrade? Yes. Would you have upgraded your computer/laptop by then. No.
I would really like to know the real % of the players that won't be able to play due to SM2 (and maybe later SM3) support being removed, and I bet CCP already got those numbers.
That's at least how I see it... |
Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:49:00 -
[384]
Does anyone know if CCP have contact with AMD/ATI to get optimal support for the game regarding drives, or are the end result perhaps abit incidental? |
Roccus
Caldari PILGRIMS Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:51:00 -
[385]
About time that EVE got a visual improvement, i am sorry for the few people who cant afford a budged pc that can handle SM3 but staying in those old outdated graphics wil not be good for EVE in the future i think. Most of the people want eye candy to even if the game offers exelent gameplay. I am glad to see the new graphics in the current premium client. I just hope this wont go at the cost of server performance, since i am getting used to lagspikes a bit... (wich is not my hardware for sure, and yes even after the need for speed tactic) But i would just say that the graphics standard could be screwed up a little more even, maybe just insert more graphics options in settings where u can select the prefered shader model etc, and other rendering options? like alot of games have already so u could tweak the engine to the performance of your pc. This would just bring one client that can be set to the players pc performance.
But keep up the good work :) EVE is by far the most versitile mmorpg i have seen, now let it also be the most beautifull one hehe. |
Forum Chav
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Posted - 2009.01.30 23:51:00 -
[386]
my laptop has an ati mobility radeon hd3470. i know sod all about hardware. will i need a new laptop now? |
Roccus
Caldari PILGRIMS Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.31 00:00:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Forum Chav my laptop has an ati mobility radeon hd3470. i know sod all about hardware. will i need a new laptop now?
If you can play premium graphics client without hassle now, you wont have to worry. I think all hd versions of ati support SM3, correct me if i am wrong :) _____________________________________________________________ Peace is not made for humans... like woman are made for men! |
Johan Civire
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.31 00:04:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Roccus About time that EVE got a visual improvement, i am sorry for the few people who cant afford a budged pc that can handle SM3 but staying in those old outdated graphics wil not be good for EVE in the future i think. Most of the people want eye candy to even if the game offers exelent gameplay. I am glad to see the new graphics in the current premium client. I just hope this wont go at the cost of server performance, since i am getting used to lagspikes a bit... (wich is not my hardware for sure, and yes even after the need for speed tactic) But i would just say that the graphics standard could be screwed up a little more even, maybe just insert more graphics options in settings where u can select the prefered shader model etc, and other rendering options? like alot of games have already so u could tweak the engine to the performance of your pc. This would just bring one client that can be set to the players pc performance.
But keep up the good work :) EVE is by far the most versitile mmorpg i have seen, now let it also be the most beautifull one hehe.
I agree on that one the NEED to upgrade graphics if the like to stay with them even world of wacraft have been upgrade alot so. And most off all this will be far bether graphics then the premium Some day i will hunt you! |
Tharivol
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Posted - 2009.01.31 00:27:00 -
[389]
I love EVE but this will be the second time in my eve life I have had to spend money on my system to keep playing , yeah I know blah blah blah your computor is junk and you needed to upgrade it etc. but as a long time full time player I for one would like to say that gameply functions are far more important to me than pretty pictures. Fix the existing problems before you go costing me more money to have the same lag etc but with prettier pictures. If I wanna see pretty pictures i will turn on my HD TV , it really doesnt matter to me how shiney my market screens in Jita are , it matters that i cant get out the gates there 1/2 the time . If my piece of crap computor wont support the proper new required graphics card I will just be gone from EVE . Couldnt possibly justify spending more money in this economy on frivilous item. Maybe I can buy the new GC with ISK through EVE ? GTCs paid for with ISK are keeping me playing now.
The opinions expressed are solely my own and those of my other accounts and their alts. Wait , thats actually alot of people.
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Forum Chav
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Posted - 2009.01.31 00:30:00 -
[390]
Originally by: Roccus
Originally by: Forum Chav my laptop has an ati mobility radeon hd3470. i know sod all about hardware. will i need a new laptop now?
If you can play premium graphics client without hassle now, you wont have to worry. I think all hd versions of ati support SM3, correct me if i am wrong :)
roccus,
cheers for that fella'. i only bought the thing a few months ago and would have been somewhat 'irked' if it couldn't run the new stuff. i've got the premium thingey going just dandio, so all should be good then. i see the computer jargon, and my head starts hurting.
again, thanks for taking the time to reply, i appreciate it.
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Kasimere
Gallente 939th Spec. Ops.
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Posted - 2009.01.31 00:51:00 -
[391]
Will ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2400 work well with the upgrade?
Bill
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Lain natuski
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Posted - 2009.01.31 01:05:00 -
[392]
My computer run with centrino duo 1.6Ghz (1Go ram) and getforce go 7600 with 256Mo of dedicated memory.
is compliant with shader model 3, but when I run premium client I have 17fps in station and 25fps out the station (with nobody out of the station).
In classic graphisme i have 60fps all of time... I'm afraid by the result of this patch...
Lain
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Anatheii Traclai
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Posted - 2009.01.31 01:18:00 -
[393]
Just a little comment about the cost of (maybe) upgrading your hardware. I am one of those people that really enjoy upgrading my PC and all that, but eventhough some of you are not, please consider, that EvE is almost the only game around where you dont have to pay for patches, expansions and where the Devs actually listen to you first, before they make a decision that you then may or may not like. Considering the ongoing price of patching and paying for WoW and similar games, the short "one-time-only" games that arent MMO or the crappy forums of other games, I don't find this as unfair as many of you might. I understand, tho, that it might be a burden on some of you - however almost any other game would have left you worse off, and after all if you have been playing since 2003 or 2004, you will have to admit that EvE really has game-value. I hope you get your hardware sorted one way or the other.
I am personally looking forwards to this!
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Johan Civire
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.31 01:31:00 -
[394]
Originally by: Anatheii Traclai Just a little comment about the cost of (maybe) upgrading your hardware. I am one of those people that really enjoy upgrading my PC and all that, but eventhough some of you are not, please consider, that EvE is almost the only game around where you dont have to pay for patches, expansions and where the Devs actually listen to you first, before they make a decision that you then may or may not like. Considering the ongoing price of patching and paying for WoW and similar games, the short "one-time-only" games that arent MMO or the crappy forums of other games, I don't find this as unfair as many of you might. I understand, tho, that it might be a burden on some of you - however almost any other game would have left you worse off, and after all if you have been playing since 2003 or 2004, you will have to admit that EvE really has game-value. I hope you get your hardware sorted one way or the other.
I am personally looking forwards to this!
Thats for sure you dont need to pay for the expands. But people see new graphics people are screaming can i play it or not? have you not see the options inside the game ? if yes you have see you can tweak it even turn OFF so your card will work. if you can run premium version if not. Well you need to buy a hardware a easy test. DOWNLOAD premium version AND try to PLAY IT if it works no worry`s. If not you screw you need to buy a new graphics card with atleast a 1.0 shaders. for playing . Or perhaps the make a option inside the game that shaders 1.0 can be turn off so you dont have to shaders 1.0. Some day i will hunt you! |
Arthas Wallace
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Posted - 2009.01.31 01:46:00 -
[395]
Well, that's a sad decision by CCP. What i loved in EvE was being able to play on my laptop. I travel a lot, and could still play. I switch skills at work. I can play watching TV with my wife, so she doesnt aggro too much... I was barely able to justify paying for 2 accounts. Now It'll be impossible for me to enjoy the game as i do with my laptop now. Even in my desktop, im sure i'll not have a good FPS running two clients after the upgrade. I can, but shouldnt, afford to upgrade a desktop. But upgrading a notebook to play a game? sorry, that sounds too teenager with a supporting father to me. Hope I can still convince my wife to let me keep one of the accounts, til my notebook cant run windows and ms office anymore, then i will NEED to buy another notebook. CCP should know that a lot of their players are not addicted high-end gamers. |
promethuess246
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Posted - 2009.01.31 02:56:00 -
[396]
Well... as a living human beeing i automaticly know now you are shrugging off countless cusomers probibly me includded. This is because people can spare a few bucks every month or what ever their payment plan is, but probibly cant add RAM (my case) or any other problems that will occure with this update. One of the main reasons WOW is so widely used is because they have a policy on trying to make the game playable on most computers. Instead of having two settigns have three, classic/premeum/Shade thingy.
I will end this with what i said at the begging, YOU WILL LOSE COSTOMERS IF YOU DO THIS. thinkk about it realll hard. |
xxOutlawxx
Caldari Sounds Of Violence Rogue Intentions
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Posted - 2009.01.31 03:45:00 -
[397]
With this new upgrade, it will bring nothing more, but losing customers since most people are now tight with their money due to the so called World crisis.
CCP is heading towards another failed Sony upgrade, if they upgrade the classic, I will forget about playing Eve online all together!
But dont worry CCP has turn into another Sony clone anyway!
Bring Back the long live Ghost Training, no wait thats just a memory of old age bugging! |
Dengen Krastinov
Amarr Vengeance Imperium
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Posted - 2009.01.31 05:01:00 -
[398]
I installed that GPU checker that a poster linked. According to that the 8600gt M's in mac book pros are Shader Model 4 compatible. Sick (thought they were 3). |
Doryd'oh
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Posted - 2009.01.31 05:35:00 -
[399]
Sorry I didn't read the posts to see if this has already been addressed, I want to playthe game. But I've got to say your lack of requirement for XP is a huge part of the reason I play Eve. So whats up with the OS requirement? Your page says Windows XP or Vista for premium client. I am currently running premium client on Windows 2000. Is that going to change? If I'm forced to upgrade to Windows XP to keep playing, I will then be able to play Lich king, WAR, and all the the other new games that require XP and DX10 in which case I'll be saying goodbye. Jumpgate beta maybe? But I can't believe you would do that or you wouldn't be able to support linux either since it doesn't support DX10 (does it?). Guess I could switch to Linux as long as you support that, it would be a pain but at least that would be cheap. You will keep supporting Linux won't, you?
Also FWIW, I play both premium and classic client on the same machine to reduce overhead for my soon-to-be alt. And I'm sorry to say I don't see much difference, nothing significant for sure, though I admit I'm colorblind. So what's the big deal anyway? The fancy graphics contribute nothing to the gameplay. |
Brem Watson
Caldari InQuest Ascension Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.31 05:54:00 -
[400]
If you save $100 per month, you can by a pretty damn good gaming rig on Newegg for under $900. |
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ghnarkmamma
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Posted - 2009.01.31 06:17:00 -
[401]
Im using a rather old computer with xp but its good and never crashes! I bought a new high end computer with vista 32 bit but had to return it cause it was unstable and crashed al the time! Heard others say the same about vista and when i say my old never crashes i mean never! So i have mixed feelings about this! |
Lao Suko
Tankt
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Posted - 2009.01.31 06:20:00 -
[402]
Edited by: Lao Suko on 31/01/2009 06:20:57
Originally by: Doryd'oh Sorry I didn't read the posts to see if this has already been addressed, I want to playthe game. But I've got to say your lack of requirement for XP is a huge part of the reason I play Eve. So whats up with the OS requirement? Your page says Windows XP or Vista for premium client. I am currently running premium client on Windows 2000. Is that going to change? If I'm forced to upgrade to Windows XP to keep playing, I will then be able to play Lich king, WAR, and all the the other new games that require XP and DX10 in which case I'll be saying goodbye. Jumpgate beta maybe? But I can't believe you would do that or you wouldn't be able to support linux either since it doesn't support DX10 (does it?). Guess I could switch to Linux as long as you support that, it would be a pain but at least that would be cheap. You will keep supporting Linux won't, you?
Also FWIW, I play both premium and classic client on the same machine to reduce overhead for my soon-to-be alt. And I'm sorry to say I don't see much difference, nothing significant for sure, though I admit I'm colorblind. So what's the big deal anyway? The fancy graphics contribute nothing to the gameplay.
my name is noob.. i'm running a 9 year old OS and am wondering if i can still play eve after march.
hey sony, my ps1 wont play ps3 games, whats with that???
why cant my commodore 64 play dvds???
why doesnt the footage from WWI come in color??
ugh ugh, me kill dinosaur. food me eat.
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Ta'na
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Posted - 2009.01.31 09:31:00 -
[403]
First of all I don't get why you (CCP) would make this change, you yourself said that one of the unique things about this game is its low system req's. So what you just said to yourself, "nullHey, I know what we should do lets just throw that out the frakking window!?!?!?!?null" Personally, I have tried running the premium engine, it looks like crap, with most objects being black box's, and with the ships frankly not looking much better than in the classic client. I don't have a comp capable of properly running the premium client, or premium light, so I'm just gonna have to give up the mmo that I've been playing for nullyearsnull. Here's an Idea, you wanna simplify your programming work, get rid of the premium client, eve using the classic client is already the best looking smoothest running mmo I have ever played, and I've played em all.
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Ta'na
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Posted - 2009.01.31 09:37:00 -
[404]
Originally by: Lao Suko Edited by: Lao Suko on 31/01/2009 06:20:57
Originally by: Doryd'oh Sorry I didn't read the posts to see if this has already been addressed, I want to playthe game. But I've got to say your lack of requirement for XP is a huge part of the reason I play Eve. So whats up with the OS requirement? Your page says Windows XP or Vista for premium client. I am currently running premium client on Windows 2000. Is that going to change? If I'm forced to upgrade to Windows XP to keep playing, I will then be able to play Lich king, WAR, and all the the other new games that require XP and DX10 in which case I'll be saying goodbye. Jumpgate beta maybe? But I can't believe you would do that or you wouldn't be able to support linux either since it doesn't support DX10 (does it?). Guess I could switch to Linux as long as you support that, it would be a pain but at least that would be cheap. You will keep supporting Linux won't, you?
Also FWIW, I play both premium and classic client on the same machine to reduce overhead for my soon-to-be alt. And I'm sorry to say I don't see much difference, nothing significant for sure, though I admit I'm colorblind. So what's the big deal anyway? The fancy graphics contribute nothing to the gameplay.
my name is noob.. i'm running a 9 year old OS and am wondering if i can still play eve after march.
hey sony, my ps1 wont play ps3 games, whats with that???
why cant my commodore 64 play dvds???
why doesnt the footage from WWI come in color??
ugh ugh, me kill dinosaur. food me eat.
What the hell's your problem dude, this isn't like your ridiculous comparisons, like why can't my commodore 64 play dvd's. A commodore 64 never could play dvd's, whereas CCP is upgrading the game, and alienating the players who cannot afford to buy new computers for us laptop users, or a new graphics card. You may say well you can get a good graphics cardd for a couple hundred bucks, well not everyone has a couple hundered bucks to waste, some people are frakking lucky to be able to afford the stinkin subscription fee.
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Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.31 09:54:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Ta'na
Originally by: Lao Suko Edited by: Lao Suko on 31/01/2009 06:20:57
Originally by: Doryd'oh Sorry I didn't read the posts to see if this has already been addressed, I want to playthe game. But I've got to say your lack of requirement for XP is a huge part of the reason I play Eve. So whats up with the OS requirement? Your page says Windows XP or Vista for premium client. I am currently running premium client on Windows 2000. Is that going to change? If I'm forced to upgrade to Windows XP to keep playing, I will then be able to play Lich king, WAR, and all the the other new games that require XP and DX10 in which case I'll be saying goodbye. Jumpgate beta maybe? But I can't believe you would do that or you wouldn't be able to support linux either since it doesn't support DX10 (does it?). Guess I could switch to Linux as long as you support that, it would be a pain but at least that would be cheap. You will keep supporting Linux won't, you?
Also FWIW, I play both premium and classic client on the same machine to reduce overhead for my soon-to-be alt. And I'm sorry to say I don't see much difference, nothing significant for sure, though I admit I'm colorblind. So what's the big deal anyway? The fancy graphics contribute nothing to the gameplay.
my name is noob.. i'm running a 9 year old OS and am wondering if i can still play eve after march.
hey sony, my ps1 wont play ps3 games, whats with that???
why cant my commodore 64 play dvds???
why doesnt the footage from WWI come in color??
ugh ugh, me kill dinosaur. food me eat.
What the hell's your problem dude, this isn't like your ridiculous comparisons, like why can't my commodore 64 play dvd's. A commodore 64 never could play dvd's, whereas CCP is upgrading the game, and alienating the players who cannot afford to buy new computers for us laptop users, or a new graphics card. You may say well you can get a good graphics cardd for a couple hundred bucks, well not everyone has a couple hundered bucks to waste, some people are frakking lucky to be able to afford the stinkin subscription fee.
I fail to comprehend why some of you idiots seem to think that Eve is a basic necessity, like food...
Eve is a luxury, that you should PAY for..., Fee, PC upgrades or other things...
The people that can barely make a living, but still want to spend money to play Eve, should get a psychiatrist because this is called ADDICTION... |
Master Roll
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Posted - 2009.01.31 10:34:00 -
[406]
Just another "DO as we feel like moment" from CCP "You guys suck!"
P.s just to make sure you know " YOU SUCK!"
10th march final EVE day |
Tony Montucky
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Posted - 2009.01.31 10:46:00 -
[407]
I have played Eve on many laptops. From my experiences craptops are not really made for graphic intense games. Eve has come a long way since I first started to play. I remember when 25,000+ players made Eve lag like crazy but Eve bearly break sweat with 25k people online now. i am looking forward to this next upgrade since my comp can handle it. i run premium graphics with 4 clients all having 10-20fps except on Sundays Atleast CCP is not mandating Vista be the minimum or else i would be in uproar too
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WeiLin Wong
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Posted - 2009.01.31 10:47:00 -
[408]
Edited by: WeiLin Wong on 31/01/2009 10:53:07 I think it would be better if made three "packs"
1 - Premium Lite - SM 2, down mixed textures *for those that have poor performers ie: laptops 2 - Premium - SM 2, all trimmings *for the average computer, yes my desktop can support SM 3 but it doesn't mean it can do it well. 3 - Premium Elite - SM3, all trimmings *for the hardcore with deep pockets.
Just a another suggestion but maybe drop the "premium" and give it a real name.
to some of the above, wow some of yeas are on a real power trip. maybe you should stop and take a reality check.
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Master Roll
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Posted - 2009.01.31 11:00:00 -
[409]
After conducting my own (fairly small just over 100) pole asking players if they aggreed with the upgardes, 99% against ,1% (yes 1) for!! All of these players have 1 or more alts and stop playing after these upgrades ........
YOU DO THE MATHS!!!
Publish you findings!
(If your one of the few on here moaning about others should be able to afford upgrades etc. Then Please remember Real Life is hard for a lot of people at the moment!)
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Sean DT
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 11:42:00 -
[410]
Dear Dev or Eve - :) Im running EVE on my toshiba tablet laptop and have no problems at all as long as I keep the backend of the tablet lifted for air circulation. I think my graphic card is Mobile Intel(R) 945GM Express Chipset (?) - Im not sure - but the EVE graphics run smoothly and without lag or any difficulties. I just paid for a full version of EVE .. Will I not be able to play more after March 1st now? Im not sure what the new minumum requirements mean to me. I don't have other computers - Im a uni student and only need a laptop - Im sure many players or at least potential players (once the packagede version of EVE hits stores, will be in the same situation as me - playing on a laptop.
I hope I can still play eve after march 1st without investing 1000 usd in a stationary pc.
Best regards, Sean DT. |
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Sean DT
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 12:07:00 -
[411]
Wuhuu - ok, so I just found out via intels website that my 2year old tablet pc with Mobile Intel(R) 945GM Express Chipset (60hz) does indeed support pixels shader 2.0! So I really do hope this is what shadermodel 2.0 means? :) Right now Eve graphics looks smooth and beautiful on my screen and I have no issues whatsoever except for quite a bit of heat. So as long as I can still play Im happy! And thx for making eve run so smoothly even on a (modern) tablet! When the packagede version of eve comes out in shops - I think you'll have a lot of non-gamers like me with their laptops buy eve - and ultimately it's how many users who can play (and do play) that determines the profitability of eve online!
thx and take care! :)
Sean DT |
Nuetor
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 12:34:00 -
[412]
Thanks CCP again youve catered for the rich and burnt out the lower classes why dont you just make EVE a Yuppies paradise for those who can afford to keep up grading to play the game you sux you need to look and revise this and throw this ****amaimy idea in the bin because it suxs again your catering for the few cry babies and forgetting the majority of players who will never be able to play eve again let alone be able to upgrade you sux
Quote: Following the previous blog on ShaderModel support we recieved a lot of feedback and made a decision based on that. We're sure this will please many of you laptop owners out there, the full details are in Zulupark's dev blog: The results are in; EVE and ShaderModel support
First time i seen this and heard about so how can u make a descion with so few players knowing about this you sux youve defo not thought about this and will do it to suit yourselves anyway again you sux. You do realise how many players this is going to wipe out from the game players who have put their hearts and souls into Eve for you to go and screw them over you sux ps just in CASE YOUR WERE NOT SURE YOU SUX
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Jilly Serkov
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Posted - 2009.01.31 12:56:00 -
[413]
Well I am sure I will get trolled, flamed or whatever, but my one and only post in this thread is :
1. If you downgraded the graphics to unshaded wireframe models, and x's on screen, I would still play Eve
2. If you never implement walking in stations, I would still play Eve.
I don't CARE about fancy graphics, who the hell who actually PLAYS rather than WATCHES Eve wants fancy graphics ? Give me a big "off" button please.
3. IF You make it so I cannot play as I want to (whether its laptops, multiple accounts, fleet battles, whatever), then I can't play Eve. You have taken the choice away from me.
CCP : Check out the guy above who said 99/100 don't want the SM2 change. My stats is a bit ropey, but that sort of number cannot be ignored. If you have it 95% the other way - one of you is wrong, and it is only him that can afford to be wrong - not you
Also, I know you guys have pretty much got things right eventually after major patches, but if premium lite doesn't deliver, you will have effectively made the game SM3 and up - and even you have had to admit that was a bad call.
You need to give this some more think time. The signs are not good. I think you should :-
1. Junk walking in stations until such time as you can breeze 1000v1000 battles, and most of your player base can run multiple accounts at playable frame rates. Surely, it is better to have subscribers with an average of 3-4 accounts rather than 0-2 ?
2. Get yourself some entry level laptops and make sure you develop premium lite for them, AND be ready to postpone deployment until you can PROVE it works
I know the sky isn't falling, but come March, your subscription rates might be.
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Number 1
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Posted - 2009.01.31 13:06:00 -
[414]
Some of the Flaming going on in here is crazy. Moaning that your old tech is not going to run eve. Eve has been out now for over 4 years? Its looking nice still, but it does need bring in touch with the latest MMO's.
Its like moanig that you cant play Playstation 3 games on your Playstation 1...
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JackBeLucky
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 13:08:00 -
[415]
I wasn't ready to quit and leave EvE. Until this new development. If you can't support the Classic Edition I think EvE may see a fairly large migration of players out.
Maybe when I can afford a laptop with a semi-decent video card I will be back. But with the economy in a shambles that seems highly unlikely for the next year or so, unless we see a really big stimulus package heh. |
Number 1
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 13:18:00 -
[416]
Edited by: Number 1 on 31/01/2009 13:20:01 All these people who say they will quit EVE... What are you going to play next? Because you wont find much that will run on a old graphics card these days. Eve is one of the exceptions.
You could always play Minesweeper! |
Plekto
Templar Republic Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 13:42:00 -
[417]
I have a question about this:
What in the game actually requires higher end graphics such that the old client couldn't be made to work with it? Upgrades for local games like FEAR I can see, because there's a ton of physics and effects that are required.
But this is a mostly static in space type game. Nothing to see, 95% of the time, since unless you have a God-level machine and a silly huge screen, you can't see actual ships in PVP short of zooming in on them. A gate is a gate. explosions are explosions. None of this absolutely requires fancy new eye candy.
But most of all, it does make a massive hit in fleet combat. For those of us with less than 1-2 year old high end uber-boxes, the premium client sucks down at least 50% FPS immediately. Many of us are already trying everything that we can to speed *up* the client by any means possible to get a few more fps when things get busy.
The only solution would be to allow us to turn off the fancy shading and features, but at that point, we've killed virtually everything that made 2.0 necessary.
You'll lose massive numbers of players (doubly so outside of Japan, North America, and Europe) and for what? I honestly can't figure this one out. You can't possibly have had more positive responses to this than negative.
The only possible explanation is the age-old one that we run into all the time. Some new manager or department head somewhere decides that it's time to "upgrade" to make themselves look important and useful. I see this all the time on web sites. New person comes on board and let's suddenly remake it all! Often with massive slowdowns and nobody really liking it.
Please stop this nonsense and work instead of fixing bugs and play issues instead.
P.S. Here's a short list of people who will stop playing: 1 - 80-90% of Macintosh players. The vast majority of Macs in use are shader 1.0 at best due to the fact that the average Mac is in service years longer than the typical PC and is far harder to upgrade/the users rarely do so. IMacs, Mac Minis, and Laptops, which comprise most of their sales now, are essentially non-upgradeable as well. Macs may be a smaller percentage of the total user base, but for paying customers, they're quite large for online gaming.
2 - 50% of Linux Players. Most Linux users can upgrade easily, but they face problems of running on often slightly older and cheaper hardware as well as the fact that shader 2.0 cards are far less stable, especially if you have an ATI card. 95% of Open GL cards flat out will stop working.
3 - 50% of Laptop users. Same deal as Mac. Show me a laptop that can run shader 2.0 AND is fast enough to run the premium client that is older than 2-3 years old. A few top-end ones exist, but most utterly fail to deliver. DirectX 9.0 flat out breaks most laptops. 10-15fps isn't playable. Not for something you PAY for every month.
4 - People in poorer countries/non first-world places. Let's face it. Life is hard enough if you're in Europe getting good hardware. Let alone if you're in Egypt or Thailand or even say, Iceland(!). Many people in these countries are running generation old hardware because they just simply can't afford new hardware or can't get it without massive tariffs. |
Plekto
Templar Republic Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 13:51:00 -
[418]
Edited by: Plekto on 31/01/2009 13:53:15
Originally by: Sean DT Wuhuu - ok, so I just found out via intels website that my 2year old tablet pc with Mobile Intel(R) 945GM Express Chipset (60hz) does indeed support pixels shader 2.0! So I really do hope this is what shadermodel 2.0 means? :)
Actually, while the 945GM chip set supports 2.0 on paper, numerous people report it failing to play almost every Direct X 9.0 and above game in any stable manner. You need the G965 chip set or above to adequately run shader 2.0. Sorry. :(
http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/cs-014257.htm Note the footnote for ALL of the 2.0 versions.
1 Intel provides an optimized graphics pipeline for shader processing that is included in Microsoft DirectX*. This can be used by games to provide software (SW) shader processing.
Direct from Intel themselves. *Software* 2.0 only on those chipsets. That's unplayable. That's a huge number of laptops CCP is leaving out to die. |
Scott Ryder
Amarr Dark Skullz Empire
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 13:59:00 -
[419]
Edited by: Scott Ryder on 31/01/2009 14:00:26
I on the other hand think this is bull****. I got 4 accounts and when im on the road i doubt my laptop can run more then 1 of them with theese new fancy graphics.
I prefer gameplay and smoothness. Perhaps you guys should fix some bugs instead of making the picture prettiers and more hardware demanding?
Just my thought.
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Joanna RB
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Posted - 2009.01.31 14:03:00 -
[420]
Less grafix = faster therefore less graphix = better ;)
Would have preferred if they scrapped premium and made everyone use classic, then they would satisfy both camps - only have to maintain one version, and everyone would be compatible.
I have two computers both with SM4 support and always use classic, as the FPS is higher.
|
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Scott Ryder
Amarr Dark Skullz Empire
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 14:09:00 -
[421]
Originally by: Joanna RB Less grafix = faster therefore less graphix = better ;)
Would have preferred if they scrapped premium and made everyone use classic, then they would satisfy both camps - only have to maintain one version, and everyone would be compatible.
I have two computers both with SM4 support and always use classic, as the FPS is higher.
The game is barely playable when you got 700 people in 1 system shooting at eachother, yet instead of fixing that ccp wants to add more fancy graphix.
Its worse then wow in space. -_-
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Antoine Dupont
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Posted - 2009.01.31 14:10:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Plekto
Direct from Intel themselves. *Software* 2.0 only on those chipsets. That's unplayable. That's a huge number of laptops CCP is leaving out to die.
Actually, it's quite common to force newer Intel video chipsets to use software shaders, because the hardware ones are even slower. I did this on my laptop, and got a 25% FPS boost.
I can't understand why people are making such a fuss of this. Ok, I can understand if people with ancient hardware, and no options to upgrade (I assume you're paying the game with GTC's to be able to afford it. If not, you should look prioritizing your expenses a bit) are a bit ****ed off. After all this is systems that have been able to run the game for the past five years.
People who have decent, or at least less ancient systems, like Pentium 4/Athlon XP and better with Geforce FX5200 or better, should seriously STFU about not being able to run classic any more. For all we know, the premium lite client will perform BETTER than the classic client. Yes, that's right; off-loading more tasks to the GPU usually makes things faster. With a little tinkering from CCP's programmers we may very well end up with faster clients, that takes less time to download (less graphics since the classic content is removed).
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Plekto
Templar Republic Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 14:35:00 -
[423]
Edited by: Plekto on 31/01/2009 14:35:31
Originally by: Antoine Dupont
Originally by: Plekto
Direct from Intel themselves. *Software* 2.0 only on those chipsets. That's unplayable. That's a huge number of laptops CCP is leaving out to die.
I can't understand why people are making such a fuss of this. Ok, I can understand if people with ancient hardware, and no options to upgrade (I assume you're paying the game with GTC's to be able to afford it. If not, you should look prioritizing your expenses a bit) are a bit ****ed off. After all this is systems that have been able to run the game for the past five years.
I personally have no such issues. Actually, The Radeon X850XT can be had in AGP and runs 2.0 just fine for those with desktops. $40 at most. Desktop users can easily add a card even on ancient boxes. I was running DirectX 9.0 games on... wait for it...
The very first ASUS USB 1.0 board ever made. Radeon X850XT running at AGP2x speed. Athalon 900. The X850/X900 series is the single answer to desktop users - it's quick enough and cheap enough. EX's old box, but it actually did work, even running XP.
The problem is all of the people who are running non-windows(mostly macs) and laptops. This effectively makes the game limited to dual core or newer laptops. Not because of the shader issue, but because of the increase in CPU required)if they're using software emulation. Anything at all hits the machine and it stumbles and hangs if it's single core. |
Goremageddon Box
Minmatar Guerilla Gorilla
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 15:27:00 -
[424]
i was wondering, i have an amd athlon 1.24 and a ati radeon 9800, if i upgrade the vid card i know the cpu doesnt meet the reqs would it still run?
just curious. _______________________ Hottest Character Ever. |
Grimstein
Nisroc Angels
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 15:27:00 -
[425]
Edited by: Grimstein on 31/01/2009 15:31:03 Edited by: Grimstein on 31/01/2009 15:29:30 I think with the massive jumps in graphics on all gamer platforms and with many like myself running top end graphics cards and also the relatively cheap price of upgrades ,,I hope there will be a client like there was now i.e classic or premium ..for those that would love to see the full graphical power of eve like lite premium which is comming and maybe another client for people like myself who are running duel pci express cards 512 mb each ,,,shader 2.0 is nice because allows the use of most laptops to play it and i think is a very good thing to keep ,but i would love to see the same given to those who would love to push there cards a little in eve..
Also when there are alot of ships on screen or a huge battle would be great to see the FPS ( frames per second ) increased as the game totally lags in those battles or when visiting Jita where there is a large ship population . I have duel pci 8800gts oc with 512mb gddr3 on each of them .........Come on guys i dont think there is anyone here that wouldnt love to see a higher fps oh and also the jump clone bug fixed !!!!!
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Hesphos
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Posted - 2009.01.31 15:40:00 -
[426]
Hmm I don't know about this new upgrade thing. I'am not very rich and this computer is from my deceased grandma. I just have enough money too keep my acount up but when the Lite version comes out. I cant play EvE anymore. |
Vinnie Voto
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 16:43:00 -
[427]
yeah i was just wondering what about the people that have slow computers now... am i goingto still be able to run eve.... if not how do you expect the people that are not able to afford a fast comp... |
Goremageddon Box
Minmatar Guerilla Gorilla
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 16:50:00 -
[428]
In this link ( http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=617 ) you mention the "Current system requirements for EVE Online can be found here."
which states
Minimum System Requirements:
* OS: Windows« XP / Vista * CPU: Intel Pentium« or AMD @ 1 GHz * RAM: XP û 1 GB / Vista û 1.5 GB * HD space: 6gig Free Space * Network: 56k modem or better Internet connection * Video: 64 MB Shader Model 2.0 Graphics cards such as GeForce FX (5 series) class card or higher, ATi 9500, x300 series or higher and Similar chips from other manufacturers * Drivers: DirectX« 9.0c (included) and latest video drivers * DVD-ROM : 2 speed DVD reader or greater required.
Now is this what is going to be the required specifications to run premium lite?
I would like a specification of all the requirements to run premium light. I'm running a radeon 9800 but it seems my cpu is only 1.24 ghz or some****, Will i be able to run this or not? I cant seem to run premium graphics at this moment as it says my computer is not able to handle it so that part has me worried. _______________________ Hottest Character Ever. |
Azears
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 17:36:00 -
[429]
My ATI 9200 LE still won't work f4 premium graphics...T_T
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Azears
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Posted - 2009.01.31 17:46:00 -
[430]
My desktop has a ati 9200 le graphics card, and I have no plan on buying a new computer with 2 years. If the minimum requirements changed that my computer does not run eve any more, I'm afraid I'll have to break up with eve.I was just planning to buy another year of eve, now this news makes me to keep those 140 bucks in my pocket. I believe that there are many people like me now. If the classic graphics version will no longer exist, this will be a stupid move.
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Master OrionStarhunter
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Posted - 2009.01.31 17:52:00 -
[431]
Again, good idea if you were to proceed with the Premium graphics upgrade. Sure those of us who have cards such as the NVidia GeForce 4 Go 440 love the fact that we can play the classic version on our laptops without any worry. Yes the classic graphics are spectacular, however asking us to go purchase a new system for 300.00 is a bit outragous, considering the fact that our current system was fine until this came along.
I have a better suggestion, rather than just eliminating the classic version altogether.
1. Eve Classic stays as is 2. Introduce Eve Premium Lite (for those who can run it) 3. Keep Premium Edition (for those who can run it)
This would make all sides happy. Not everyone out there can afford a new laptop/desktop PC, even though to the programmers (and c'mon guys, we know you make the money) could purchase one with the drop of a hat. 300.00 is my car payment per month...and in a time where jobs are currently hard to find, and the economy is not the greatest, do you all really think that this will increase the number of players to the game? The main reason I came back was that my Compaq Presario R3000Z could actually play the game and had the processor to handle it.
So, I now ask this question, can the nVidia GeForce 4 Go 440 handle the upgrade?? I know it won't run the Premium, but I need to know if this new upgrade will work with my system. If not, then I just spent the last 2 months playing a game I love, for nothing. Not to mention, introducing several friends to a game that they too can play on older hardware...
Please let me know.
Many thanks... |
WeiLin Wong
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 18:53:00 -
[432]
Originally by: Master Roll After conducting my own (fairly small just over 100) pole asking players if they aggreed with the upgardes, 99% against ,1% (yes 1) for!! All of these players have 1 or more alts and stop playing after these upgrades ........
YOU DO THE MATHS!!!
Publish you findings!
(If your one of the few on here moaning about others should be able to afford upgrades etc. Then Please remember Real Life is hard for a lot of people at the moment!)
Well I would say likewise to you. Statistically out of 30K players you only got a little over 100, and you only reached the players that are really into gaming therefore they would spend the time into trolling the forums and money for a gaming rig. I we just when with your sample then you would alienating a much large player base and will lose a really important game feature. That is having so many players in one server.
My opinion to all this is that hardware goes in and out of date, so "X" feature goes in and out with time as well. I what I think is that they shouldn't push for the new and shove the old too quickly. If you still have a computer that still can only support SM 1.0 I think it is time to invest in an up grade. However it seems to many of you thinks upgrading the Video is all it takes. Well I have news for you on some computers this would require a lot more then a simple Video card, for some it would require a whole new computer. Do you honestly think that everyone can afford that? |
Goremageddon Box
Minmatar Guerilla Gorilla
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 19:47:00 -
[433]
Originally by: Master OrionStarhunter Again, good idea if you were to proceed with the Premium graphics upgrade. Sure those of us who have cards such as the NVidia GeForce 4 Go 440 love the fact that we can play the classic version on our laptops without any worry. Yes the classic graphics are spectacular, however asking us to go purchase a new system for 300.00 is a bit outragous, considering the fact that our current system was fine until this came along.
I have a better suggestion, rather than just eliminating the classic version altogether.
1. Eve Classic stays as is 2. Introduce Eve Premium Lite (for those who can run it) 3. Keep Premium Edition (for those who can run it)
This would make all sides happy. Not everyone out there can afford a new laptop/desktop PC, even though to the programmers (and c'mon guys, we know you make the money) could purchase one with the drop of a hat. 300.00 is my car payment per month...and in a time where jobs are currently hard to find, and the economy is not the greatest, do you all really think that this will increase the number of players to the game? The main reason I came back was that my Compaq Presario R3000Z could actually play the game and had the processor to handle it.
So, I now ask this question, can the nVidia GeForce 4 Go 440 handle the upgrade?? I know it won't run the Premium, but I need to know if this new upgrade will work with my system. If not, then I just spent the last 2 months playing a game I love, for nothing. Not to mention, introducing several friends to a game that they too can play on older hardware...
Please let me know.
Many thanks...
see bold. signed. / |
HarshawJ
International Brotherhood
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 21:11:00 -
[434]
What would be nice would be a program that I could d/l and run that would tell me if my system could handle the new graphics. I am running on a Toshiba a105 Laptop with Vista Ultimate, but I do not know if that is enough.
I would really like this simply because if I cannot tun the graphics, I will close my account now for I do not plan on upgrading a computer to run a game. Also, If I can't play it, and my 6mo. payment kicks in just before the upgrade (and it will) how do I get my money back.... or are you planning on stealing it. Personally, I feel you should upgrade your game to fit my computer. If you feel you want to loose the gamers simple because your graphics snobs, then so be it, I wouldn't necessarily want to be here in the first place then... to bad, because I like the game.
CPP... the ultimate grievers.
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Azears
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.31 21:28:00 -
[435]
It will not be a hard work to issue a classic client I believe. EVE will keep thousands players by doing that. I will not do any payment unless there will be a classic client. It's hard time for everyone since the economic crisis. Don't be stupid CCP. |
Dryson Bennington
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Posted - 2009.01.31 22:30:00 -
[436]
A question about my graphics card.
This is the information I got from visiontek.com
DirectX« 10.1 / Shader Model 4.1 support
So my ATI Radeon will be able to support the new Lite upgrade coming in March correct?
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Plekto
Templar Republic Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.01.31 23:11:00 -
[437]
Minimum System Requirements: Actual requirements: ***** * OS: Windows« XP * CPU: Intel Pentium 4 « or AMD @ 1 GHz * RAM: XP û 1 GB * HD space: 6gig Free Space * Network: DSL or Cable connection * Video: 128 MB Shader Model 2.0 Graphics card. * Drivers: DirectX« 9.0c (included) and latest video drivers
- Technically you can download the installer and don't need a DVD.
- Radeon X800 is the lowest end card that you can get by ATI that will run it. $30-$40 used. No, really. It's 128MB minimum, so for ATI cards, just buy any 256MB card used and drop it in. For NVidia, it gets a little trickier.
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Jake McCord
Minmatar Clan Goliath Scorpion
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Posted - 2009.02.01 00:03:00 -
[438]
Ok. First, my desktop can run the full Premium client. But I don't. I prefer the Classic, because of lag issues I have with premium graphics, specially in combat.
My laptop cannot run the premium, which is not a big deal, but if I can't run it on that, I may just not bother with EVE anyway. I use my laptop to play from work. I work at a dull, boring security job, where the hardest thing to do is stay awake. So, maybe it's time for WoW? I hope not. |
Alaider
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 02:04:00 -
[439]
Hi. I have a fairly old laptop and all i've got is a Radeon Mobility X600 with 2 gigs of ram... am i not going to be able to run eve after march 10th? my computer already doesn't support the premium graphics mode...
for a couple more details. it's a HP zd8000 series laptop. XP Media Center 2005 OS
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Johan Civire
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Posted - 2009.02.01 02:26:00 -
[440]
Close this topic this is getting rong. The will upgrade the graphics because the need to do it. So you can cry yell. You can not stop about that. Well the know that people going away the dont,,, care realy. welcome to mmorpg`s the new graphics will get new people more like the got more $$ to spare and the dont whant crapy graphics to whant to see everything so in the end like always the low budget people are doom. If you can not buy a upgrade then sorry to say you are f*ck. Well iam running the client also on a 10 years old mainbord. So i need to wait to. But i dont care the upgrade i love it. |
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Loral Eure
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Posted - 2009.02.01 03:11:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Master OrionStarhunter I have a better suggestion, rather than just eliminating the classic version altogether.
1. Eve Classic stays as is 2. Introduce Eve Premium Lite (for those who can run it) 3. Keep Premium Edition (for those who can run it)
This would make all sides happy. Not everyone out there can afford a new laptop/desktop PC, even though to the programmers (and c'mon guys, we know you make the money)
Hear, hear! Unfortunately, CCP has never been responsive to the requests of those paying their paycheques. And too many programmers take the easy way out (and they make those of you who are hard-working programmers look bad).
If I knew I'd be playing a game for which the system requirements would be a moving target, I never would have started.
I agree with keeping classic mode completely. It looks like I'll be SOL with my Intel X3100. Sure, I only use that when I'm travelling, but I travel enough to mean that I'll be finding another game. Good-bye, EVE.
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Ta'na
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 03:16:00 -
[442]
Originally by: Loral Eure
Originally by: Master OrionStarhunter I have a better suggestion, rather than just eliminating the classic version altogether.
1. Eve Classic stays as is 2. Introduce Eve Premium Lite (for those who can run it) 3. Keep Premium Edition (for those who can run it)
This would make all sides happy. Not everyone out there can afford a new laptop/desktop PC, even though to the programmers (and c'mon guys, we know you make the money)
Hear, hear! Unfortunately, CCP has never been responsive to the requests of those paying their paycheques. And too many programmers take the easy way out (and they make those of you who are hard-working programmers look bad).
If I knew I'd be playing a game for which the system requirements would be a moving target, I never would have started.
I agree with keeping classic mode completely. It looks like I'll be SOL with my Intel X3100. Sure, I only use that when I'm travelling, but I travel enough to mean that I'll be finding another game. Good-bye, EVE.
Hey, I agree with you, CCP should be listening to the people. You would think a company based in Iceland, a country so devestated by the current economic crisis that their government is falling apart, would realize that demanding that people upgrade their computers to be able to keep playing. They also are not taking into account that while 5% will quit because they can't run the new system, they will more than likely get friends to leave with them, because when you abandon one player like this, you tell the public that they can F**K off, and people don't respond well to that. |
xaja
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 04:15:00 -
[443]
I'm all for upgrading to shader 2, 3 and the premium client.
However, a number of ships look better in EVE classic than in EVE premium, due to unfortunate color changes or removal of cool features:
The shiny black on the old Nighthawk, for example isn't matched by the new boring grey in any manner.
the Omen now has a dog-vomit light brownish green tint, which I challenge you to find anybody who likes it.
The Prowler has lost is cool rotating light gizmo.
And overall, there's not nearly enough cool black ships, especially black with a metallic shine...
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First Mad
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Posted - 2009.02.01 04:44:00 -
[444]
Edited by: First Mad on 01/02/2009 04:45:58 If i am unable to continue to play the game i will expect a refund on the outstanding time i have on my accounts. Since I only started playing the game originally because its one of the few that my 6 year old machine can still handle... I would of course expect other players to do the same. There is nothing wrong with my computer and i'm not going to build a new one till it dies.
*edit* Unless of course ccp plans to supply all those of us who cannot afford a new system at this time with one that will play the game of course ... yeah right!!
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.02.01 05:20:00 -
[445]
Originally by: First Mad Edited by: First Mad on 01/02/2009 04:45:58 If i am unable to continue to play the game i will expect a refund on the outstanding time i have on my accounts. Since I only started playing the game originally because its one of the few that my 6 year old machine can still handle... I would of course expect other players to do the same. There is nothing wrong with my computer and i'm not going to build a new one till it dies.
*edit* Unless of course ccp plans to supply all those of us who cannot afford a new system at this time with one that will play the game of course ... yeah right!!
Well I can understand some peoples anger if they will be unable to play the remainder of thier paid account time after the new client hits but unfortunately for them the eula states that the player is responsible for meeting the minimum requirements for the game client or any future increase in said requirements. Sucks but its stuff like that wasn't in the eula we would all still be playing Zork like games on a c-64 due to the lawyers playing legal games.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Alaider
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Posted - 2009.02.01 06:02:00 -
[446]
well. from what i've read, i can't see that my laptop will be able to handle eve after this update. therefore, my account will be suspended as soon as i can click the links to it. sorry, eve was one of the games that this can run and since it doesn't look like that's going to happen anymore... i guess i'll be finding another game to play. sucks, eve is a great game, i feel bad for wasting my time on it.
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Jameta Cabet
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Posted - 2009.02.01 06:13:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: First Mad Edited by: First Mad on 01/02/2009 04:45:58 If i am unable to continue to play the game i will expect a refund on the outstanding time i have on my accounts. Since I only started playing the game originally because its one of the few that my 6 year old machine can still handle... I would of course expect other players to do the same. There is nothing wrong with my computer and i'm not going to build a new one till it dies.
*edit* Unless of course ccp plans to supply all those of us who cannot afford a new system at this time with one that will play the game of course ... yeah right!!
Well I can understand some peoples anger if they will be unable to play the remainder of thier paid account time after the new client hits but unfortunately for them the eula states that the player is responsible for meeting the minimum requirements for the game client or any future increase in said requirements. Sucks but its stuff like that wasn't in the eula we would all still be playing Zork like games on a c-64 due to the lawyers playing legal games.
Again with the c-64 comparision. People expect to possibly have to have a better computer to play a NEW game. What we're ****ed about is being told that we have to buy new computers to run a game we've been playing for years.
Originally by: Alaider well. from what i've read, i can't see that my laptop will be able to handle eve after this update. therefore, my account will be suspended as soon as i can click the links to it. sorry, eve was one of the games that this can run and since it doesn't look like that's going to happen anymore... i guess i'll be finding another game to play. sucks, eve is a great game, i feel bad for wasting my time on it.
I know CCP will probably ban me for saying this, but Alaider, if your reading this, and in fact anyone else that is being forced to quit by ccp, make sure to tell your friends, and do your darndest to get them to quit also. THis is a social game after all, and ccp needs to understand when you alienate one customer you also alienate their friends |
Admiral Kassiea
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Posted - 2009.02.01 06:15:00 -
[448]
Im amazed at the amount of people who post in here saying they only play EVE because its the only game there computer can play...
If you didnt play EVE and saved the subscription money maybe you could get a better pc in a year or two, or at least some new parts lol, developers arnt going to make games for people with old pc's
Also to the people saying keep classing and run a premium lite and a premium i dont think your grasping the fact that the more client version you run the more work it is to maintain them, each will have specific bugs.
Yes there ditching classic and adding premium lite which means theres still two clients but alot of the premium lite will be compatable with premium where as right now classic has unquie bugs to premium its twice as much work and double the number of models and textures. |
Master OrionStarhunter
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Posted - 2009.02.01 07:11:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Admiral Kassiea Edited by: Admiral Kassiea on 01/02/2009 06:16:30 Im amazed at the amount of people who post in here saying they only play EVE because its the only game there computer can play...
If you didnt play EVE and saved the subscription money maybe you could get a better pc in a year or two, or at least some new parts lol, developers arnt going to make games for people with old pc's
Also to the people saying keep the classic client and run premium lite and a premium i dont think your grasping the fact that the more client version you run the more work it is to maintain them, each will have specific bugs.
Yes there ditching classic and adding premium lite which means theres still two clients but alot of the premium lite will be compatable with premium where as right now classic has unquie bugs to premium its twice as much work and double the number of models and textures.
I beg to differ, let's take another company into consideration for a moment. Microsoft created Windows Vista, forcing everyone who had perfectly good PC's that ran XP and 2000 to purchase a new system just so that it could handle the graphics alone, not to mention the size of the operating system (c'mon, 16 gigs for an install is rediculous).
So, after roughly a year now, with all the problems they have been having with Vista, they decided to go back to the drawing board (mind you, after listening to constant complaints on how the OS was not compatible with a majority of software and how certain, "new" features really sucked) and have decided to come out with Windows 7.
Being a member of the Beta team for Windows 7, here's what to expect...
Everything that XP gave you, with the ability to turn off the Vista Eye Candy...and 100% backwards compatibility.
Now, here's something to ponder, and something CCP should look at as a perfect example... Was Microsoft willing to lose millions of customers over Vista? No, they changed their minds and fixed the problem, knowing that in this economy the price for Vista, was too high alone, plus the cost of a new PC for anyone to afford.
HELLO CCP?!! Getting any of this?! Hardware isn't cheap. Cheapest Laptop on the market that you can get is roughly 400 bucks. You can't play Eve on that according to your new specs. Nothing is wrong with keeping the old Classic, in fact if you have to update it, and add in the eye candy, make it so you can turn it off if your cards don't handle it, or it's automatically turned off. Telling your customers to go **** up a rope if they don't like it, is simply bad customer repore, and I'm sorry, but those of us who are your customers...PAY YOUR PAYCHECKS.
Rethink this before you loose your customer base, and destroy what is already an excellent game for all of us to play...
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Khaan Tar
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Posted - 2009.02.01 07:21:00 -
[450]
I can see the logic in going with shader model 2.0 as minimum from CCP. First off, shader model 2 and 3 are quite similar, shader model 1 is quite different = easier to maintain codebase.
Secondly, rendering a single light in a scene using SM1.0 can take as much as 7 rendering passes on the GPU, using SM2.0 this can be done in one or two rendering passes.
For people using an archaic laptop, I can see this as an issue, for a desktop user (even if still bound to AGP), getting a hold of a new or secondhand SM2.0 capable graphics card is cheaper than going to the pub and ordering a few pints. |
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2009.02.01 07:31:00 -
[451]
Hey, why don't CCP release a client based on the classic one, charge $1000 a month for it to employ extra programmers and artists to keep it up-to-date with all the new changes?
Then those few hundred people who can't be bothered to upgrade can pull their own weight, ensuring they can keep playing on their computers from the previous millennium. ^_^ |
esc shk
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Posted - 2009.02.01 07:47:00 -
[452]
Edited by: esc shk on 01/02/2009 07:48:12 NOOOOES I need it to stay Shader Model 2 damn you.
My Laptop only is SM2 compatible
Okay it prolly will but STILL
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Khaan Tar
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Posted - 2009.02.01 07:48:00 -
[453]
Originally by: esc shk NOOOOES I need it to stay Shader Model 2 damn you.
My Laptop only is SM2 compatible
And yes, the upgrade will be requiring SM2.0, not SM3.0
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esc shk
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Posted - 2009.02.01 07:49:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Khaan Tar
Originally by: esc shk NOOOOES I need it to stay Shader Model 2 damn you.
My Laptop only is SM2 compatible
And yes, the upgrade will be requiring SM2.0, not SM3.0
I hate my brain sometimes
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Ta'na
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Posted - 2009.02.01 07:58:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Hey, why don't CCP release a client based on the classic one, charge $1000 a month for it to employ extra programmers and artists to keep it up-to-date with all the new changes?
Then those few hundred people who can't be bothered to upgrade can pull their own weight, ensuring they can keep playing on their computers from the previous millennium. ^_^
Phhh, comps from last year, thanks to CCP's admitted inability to work with Nvidia Gforce Go graphics cards, it means that my 1.5 year old nice laptop cant run it. Technically It runs, at 20 fps and with every light in the game being a HUGE black/brown BLOB.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2009.02.01 08:38:00 -
[456]
It would be great if CCP could please provide a link to software that can evaluate if a video card supports shadermodel 2.
ie. A program you can run that tests your system and gives you a green light/tick box confirmation what your card supports, rather than everyone having to work it out in detail for themselves.
≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store | eve-maps.com |
BrysonBennington
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 14:18:00 -
[457]
Edited by: BrysonBennington on 01/02/2009 14:19:05 That would make to much sense Serenity Steele and as we all know it here in EvE, when is the last time that CCP ever did anything logical, pratical or made any sense?
If CCP wanted to make more money what they should do is this:
1:Server One would be for the Classic Graphics. 2:Server Two would be for Premium Grahpics. 3:Server Three would be for Premium Lite Graphics.
The notion of maintaining that you can hold 250,000 people on one server is not a reality, the most I have ever seen is 42,000 at one time. The one server mentality sounds like a group of college kids cramming theirselves into a telephone booth to see how many can get in at one time. Granted this metaphysical notion is fun, but a business is about making money, not losing money because of the simplestic nature of saying that you can have 250,000 gamers on one server when you can't.
Here is an example of a good set-up for a MMOG:
Silk Road Online - The last time I stopped by to see Silk Road Online they had maybe ten different servers. Each server had to have had maybe 10,000 players on it. Not bad. Each server had the exact game client installed on every single one. The MMOG was free as well. If CCP adopted this mentality, EvE online would gain new customers and be able to put more revenue into the game and franchise itself.
But what do I know, I've only been an avid gamer and pc fan since I first picked up the paddle wheel for the black and white pong game, typed goto line 20 days. If a company can't branch out then the company will begin to shrivel up into a dead tree that the roots can no longer hold the earth around them. What happens then? Someone comes along, pulls the tree and tosses it in the garbage.
Why do you think WoW is so huge? Multiply servers are the main key. But WoW is also a Keep It Simple Stupid gamers type of game. Just run around poke little red blobs with your sword and thats it, WoW is nothing more then a graphical illusion compared to EvE's mathematical process of matching the correct weapon to the correct ship via the needed skills.
Im certain CCP doesnt want their fans leaving EvE and merging with WoW to bring the mathematical matchup process described above to WoW making EvE a wasteland of chat rooms filled with advertisements. |
Delta23
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Posted - 2009.02.01 15:24:00 -
[458]
I am assuming that the premium grapics i now use is shader model 2 already? If so my vidio card is fully supported! I have the 2600 pro ATI card. Will this card also be ok for Shader model 3?
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YaSiS
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Posted - 2009.02.01 17:22:00 -
[459]
CCP is wasting time for people who doesnt wanna upgrade... people with ww2 hardware go play tetris! |
Ethyn
Caldari Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2009.02.01 18:03:00 -
[460]
ccp, is this software or hardware based support of sm2?
GO Fast or Die!
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Andresky
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.01 18:34:00 -
[461]
Originally by: YaSiS CCP is wasting time for people who doesnt wanna upgrade... people with ww2 hardware go play tetris!
Perhaps because hardware built in laptops isn't upgradeable?
Another thing:
I don't understand the current discussion about moving to ShaderModel 2.0, because it's already listed in the current minimum requirements: 64 MB Shader Model 2.0 Graphics cards such as GeForce FX (5 series) class card or higher, ATi 9500, x300 series or higher and Similar chips from other manufacturers.
Did I misunderstand something?
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Intergalactic Quant
Darkmatter Research and Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.01 18:46:00 -
[462]
I need to find a tool to find out what my current computer has and if it will be compatible if anybody finds such a tool, please post it here! CCP could make a check for us also I'm sure.
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Andresky
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.01 19:07:00 -
[463]
Edited by: Andresky on 01/02/2009 19:14:35
Originally by: Intergalactic Quant I need to find a tool to find out what my current computer has and if it will be compatible if anybody finds such a tool, please post it here! CCP could make a check for us also I'm sure.
Try this one.
Mine says DX9/SM2.0 compatible. |
Goremageddon Box
Minmatar Guerilla Gorilla
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Posted - 2009.02.01 19:58:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Andresky Edited by: Andresky on 01/02/2009 19:14:35
Originally by: Intergalactic Quant I need to find a tool to find out what my current computer has and if it will be compatible if anybody finds such a tool, please post it here! CCP could make a check for us also I'm sure.
Try this one.
Mine says DX9/SM2.0 compatible.
this is what mine says but i am not able to run the current premium graphics, is this the same with you?
Im just confused because i cant currently run premium graphics but is the premium lite a toned down premium? My system should be able to handle it then, im hoping. _______________________ Hottest Character Ever. |
Intergalactic Quant
Darkmatter Research and Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.01 20:01:00 -
[465]
Originally by: Andresky Edited by: Andresky on 01/02/2009 19:14:35
Originally by: Intergalactic Quant I need to find a tool to find out what my current computer has and if it will be compatible if anybody finds such a tool, please post it here! CCP could make a check for us also I'm sure.
Try this one.
Mine says DX9/SM2.0 compatible.
That worked and mine reads the same, guess I'm good till 3.0 when I'm screwed. I know most say buy another computer (in my case laptop) but I can't justify that to the wife I catch agro from just to play a game she'd rather I don't. I'll have to work on the budget and the excuse list until 3.0 I guess.
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Admiral Kassiea
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Posted - 2009.02.01 21:01:00 -
[466]
Edited by: Admiral Kassiea on 01/02/2009 21:03:57 Master OrionStarhunter, while your infomation is correct i dont think that is a very good comparison, its a OS, its used by billions of people and they are remaking it because alot of people think Vista is crap.
EVE Premium is not crap in anyway, the client is better then the classic client, apart from the higher requirments, and if CCP are only having to focus on fixing bugs in the Premium client rather then the Premium client and the Classic client they can fix bugs faster.
Again alot of people posting are playing EVE on a laptop, as i pointed out in the previous big thread about this, laptops are not built for gaming.
Especially as id like to point out that alot of you dont sound like your using Alienware laptops, which at the end of the day are the closest thing you can get to a gaming laptop.
I had an Aurora M9700, as soon as i got it i found it fast becoming out of date and unable to play some games, it also only lasted two years even being well looked after before it died (somthing blew out on the motherboard) because of the amount of strain video games put on laptop hardware, you just cant keep them cool.
I think people should be pleased that they have been able to keep playing EVE Classic for as long as they have, i think alot of video game development companies would have gotten rid of there old client as soon as they released a new one.
All i can say to people with laptops is, that is a shame, but because laptops arnt made for gaming it was bound to happen sooner or later :(
Im sure someone will reply saying "YOUR SO WRONG LAPTOPS ARE FOR GAMING" id like to ask that you provide some evidence, some dam good evidence so that we can have a good discussion, flaming gets no where :)
Also id like to point out that athe the fan fest CCP talk about a client with no 3D graphics, which will contain chat channels, market details, and skill sheets.
You can download the fanfest video from the video section (i think it is still up for download i cannot remeber which one it is i will try to find out later)
So prehaps we should start asking that CCP please work on this client they mentioned that will run on nearly anything by the sounds of it.
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Roccus
Caldari PILGRIMS Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.01 21:48:00 -
[467]
Again for the people with old computers... You cant realy expect a game maker to adjust to your 10 year old computers do you? Games have to involve and not hold back to customers that are afraid of spending just a few bucks to upgrade. Shader model 2 and 3 is already old and ccp is just now adapting to it.. so they did keep you guys in mind, but the game will die if they stick to the old graphics. they might indeed loose people that have old pc's, but they gain alot more people that not living in the stone age anymore... EVE needs to compete with alot of mmorpg's now so dont think you never need to upgrade your hardware. Evolution comes with a price, but as long the reward is bigger it keeps on evolving. Keeping a game compatible with far outdated computers is rediculas, You dont see it in any other game.. so why should eve be any different... _____________________________________________________________ Peace is not made for humans... like woman are made for men! |
Andresky
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.01 21:50:00 -
[468]
Originally by: Goremageddon Box
Try this one.
Mine says DX9/SM2.0 compatible.
this is what mine says but i am not able to run the current premium graphics, is this the same with you?
the current premium graphics needs ShaderModel 3.0 - only the current classic needs 2.0 as seen in the specs.
As far as I understand now is, CCP is only making the current premium client Shader 2.0 compatible (with less detail).
I din't know the current classic client is Shader 1.0 compatible?
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Kalienda
|
Posted - 2009.02.01 22:27:00 -
[469]
Oh well... won't be able to run my alt anymore... not a fan of tabbing... too slow... one less subscription for CCP. |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 00:13:00 -
[470]
Originally by: Andresky
I din't know the current classic client is Shader 1.0 compatible?
CCP wrote their own shader system, which was one of the things that made it all look so amazing in 2003. IIRC the total requirements listed on the back of the original box were: Internet Connection Required.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
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Lao Quin
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Posted - 2009.02.02 00:33:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Admiral Kassiea Edited by: Admiral Kassiea on 01/02/2009 21:03:57 Master OrionStarhunter, while your infomation is correct i dont think that is a very good comparison, its a OS, its used by billions of people and they are remaking it because alot of people think Vista is crap.
EVE Premium is not crap in anyway, the client is better then the classic client, apart from the higher requirments, and if CCP are only having to focus on fixing bugs in the Premium client rather then the Premium client and the Classic client they can fix bugs faster.
Again alot of people posting are playing EVE on a laptop, as i pointed out in the previous big thread about this, laptops are not built for gaming.
Especially as id like to point out that alot of you dont sound like your using Alienware laptops, which at the end of the day are the closest thing you can get to a gaming laptop.
I had an Aurora M9700, as soon as i got it i found it fast becoming out of date and unable to play some games, it also only lasted two years even being well looked after before it died (somthing blew out on the motherboard) because of the amount of strain video games put on laptop hardware, you just cant keep them cool.
I think people should be pleased that they have been able to keep playing EVE Classic for as long as they have, i think alot of video game development companies would have gotten rid of there old client as soon as they released a new one.
All i can say to people with laptops is, that is a shame, but because laptops arnt made for gaming it was bound to happen sooner or later :(
Im sure someone will reply saying "YOUR SO WRONG LAPTOPS ARE FOR GAMING" id like to ask that you provide some evidence, some dam good evidence so that we can have a good discussion, flaming gets no where :)
Also id like to point out that athe the fan fest CCP talk about a client with no 3D graphics, which will contain chat channels, market details, and skill sheets.
You can download the fanfest video from the video section (i think it is still up for download i cannot remeber which one it is i will try to find out later)
So prehaps we should start asking that CCP please work on this client they mentioned that will run on nearly anything by the sounds of it.
i am totally for this graphicless client.
you can play your game on your crap pcs that are older than my PS1 and here's what you'll see. a few windows, text, and numbers, maybe a 3d x,y,z cordinate screen for movement in space, a wireframe version of asteroid fields if wireframe is even a necessity, and then a jam-packed overview stating even more numbers for distance to targets, angles of targets, angular velocity to targets and so on.
this way you can play eve and never have to use any graphics content at all.
i mean when it comes down to it, a lot of the players that are *****ing here fail to realize that the game started for 2 reasons. 1. cause people want something to play, and 2. its art that people want to look at. i play the game cause its fun and beautiful art. if you want something less, i recommend freelancer. When it comes down to it, if you take away the art, you get numbers and windows. if you want more, you practically have oldschool pc games.
if you cant afford a new pc, go get the generic food at the market, if your already doing that, and are still having trouble affording eve. you need a major lifestyle change cause you've put a game before your financial stability and that's not very smart. perhaps ccp is trying to make your life better. increased freetime in your life, more money in your pocket, and less stress about having to keep up with society's technological upgrades. good luck with that. |
Cyxopyc
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.02 00:49:00 -
[472]
I have a computer that will either have to be replaced or upgraded because of this change. It always happens in MMOs whether the customers want it or not.
EVE players I have talked to over the years bring up ideas to improve or expand EVE or express frustration about a weakness in EVE (a little more of the latter). It is very rare if ever that a need for prettier or more beautiful graphics is mentioned. This is true even before the "Premium Graphics" came out. For me and many of the players I know in EVE more intensive graphics are dangerous and do nothing to help in battles.
CCP has done well to allow drone models to be turned off completely. I would ask that that other similar options be put in game that allow other objects to be turned off completely. |
HarshawJ
International Brotherhood
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Posted - 2009.02.02 01:16:00 -
[473]
Originally by: Andresky Edited by: Andresky on 01/02/2009 19:14:35
Originally by: Intergalactic Quant I need to find a tool to find out what my current computer has and if it will be compatible if anybody finds such a tool, please post it here! CCP could make a check for us also I'm sure.
Try this one.
Mine says DX9/SM2.0 compatible.
Thank you very much, seems I may be able to play this after all. I got the same results as above...
HOWEVER... I have been playing the game close to two years, if I can't play any more are you going to refund the last two years work I have put intot he characters? I got like 26 million skill points, what a waste of my time that I can not get back. it would be one thing for me to abandon the character because I left EVE, but to be forced out, you just wasted two years of my time AND I PAID FOR IT! So, I am figuring that you are going to owe me a check for about $250...
Need my address?
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Master OrionStarhunter
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 08:30:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Admiral Kassiea Edited by: Admiral Kassiea on 01/02/2009 21:03:57 Master OrionStarhunter, while your infomation is correct i dont think that is a very good comparison, its a OS, its used by billions of people and they are remaking it because alot of people think Vista is crap.
Answer 1: (Compare the OS's in this fashion...Ubuntu Linux can take my nVidia GeForce4 440 Go, and do all the nice things that Vista can without a problem...so what is the problem with Vista?...It's crap. That's what.)
EVE Premium is not crap in anyway, the client is better then the classic client, apart from the higher requirments, and if CCP are only having to focus on fixing bugs in the Premium client rather then the Premium client and the Classic client they can fix bugs faster.
Again alot of people posting are playing EVE on a laptop, as i pointed out in the previous big thread about this, laptops are not built for gaming.
Answer 2: (I beg to differ...take Alienware systems, Dell XPS systems for example. They come with high end graphics cards to do exactly that...play games. They have been nicknamed, "Gamer's Laptops" for a reason. Yes they tend to get warm, but so does any other notebook PC out there depending upon the application you are running on it (large spreadsheet calculations, graphics editing, etc). So in this particular instance, I'm sorry to say that you are incorrect.)
Edited: Removed extra from this point... I think people should be pleased that they have been able to keep playing EVE Classic for as long as they have, i think alot of video game development companies would have gotten rid of there old client as soon as they released a new one.
Ok, I agree with you however again, it's not the matter of that we don't appreciate the upgrade to keep the program running. Several entries back, someone mentioned the fact that during large scale wars, the system becomes laggy. I would think that this would be a priority to fix, i.e. add a few more servers to help even the problem out, rather than resort to making it worse by adding better graphics to a server that is already having problems with the current code as is. Secondly, another posting was added regarding a person who just got a laptop about a year and a half ago, and now cannot play Eve, because the card on their machine doesn't support the 2.0 Pixel Shader requirement. Look, my point of view is this, if I could change the card in my laptop, I would, and if I had the money to purchase a new laptop, I would. I can't do either, and for CCP to EXPECT it's customers to do so is ludicris. They have a faithful following of people (roughly about 25,000 a day on the server) and this is going to cause a major impact. As one person put it, the tree will die, and the roots shall shrivel up...then, no more CCP. WoW kept the client simple, and capable to run on "all" types of video, those of us who aren't born into money, have a well to pay job, or just don't have the extra money, are kindly asking for a reconsideration to the roll out. Make 3 versions. Hell, roll them into 1 client that allows you to run what your system is capable of running. Then everyone is happy....
All i can say to people with laptops is, that is a shame, but because laptops arnt made for gaming it was bound to happen sooner or later :(
Read Above...yes they are...and they cost upwards of 2k to 3k....
Im sure someone will reply saying "YOUR SO WRONG LAPTOPS ARE FOR GAMING" id like to ask that you provide some evidence, some dam good evidence so that we can have a good discussion, flaming gets no where :)
So prehaps we should start asking that CCP please work on this client they mentioned that will run on nearly anything by the sounds of it.
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2009.02.02 12:15:00 -
[475]
I would say as a subscriber this amount of warning is not long enough in terms of time for existing paying/paid Classic players that may have paid a longer subscription and then be unable to enter the game.
Expecting people to have to upgrade their hardware during a global economic recession seems very unwise, when in fact you probably have more people playing the game as a means to entertain themselves more cheaply during these hard financial times. Of course you would not notice any impact to your business initially but rather when people cancel their accounts because of being unable to continue to play.
If the cost of the loss of income from user subscriptions that will cancel exceeds the cost of maintaining the dual codebase, then it would not be wise to drop it, especially given the global recession actually encouraging people to seek cheaper ways to keep themselves entertained, as I am sure you have seen lots more users returning to gaming as a way to more cost effectively entertain themselves.
Expecting a forum to be an accurate representation of your users hardware is extremely illogical, especially given the number of languages your subscribing users speak, and the fact this is only an English post. Seriously, I wouldn't base any huge financial and business decision on just this sort of information. You would get a more accurate set of information to work from by forcing a user base contribution of hardware details. In fact making it easier still, just obtaining the graphics card details from this information in each case and submitting it to a central database logged against the account name of the login would actually give you an accurate representation of what accounts are played on what type of hardware. This you can then accurately base any form of decision on, be it business or coding maintenance.
The business logic seems to suggest to me that the cost of maintaining the additional codebase should be compared to the alternatives of say a refactoring project to perhaps bring things into an MVC approach, sharing a large amount of certain code to do with user interaction, but changing the background rendering engine for each. Surely a large part of the code from both clients is probably common or duplicated, and not engine dependant?
LetÆs face the practicalities of the game. You don't actually need pretty graphics to play it, nor do most of the enemy ships get close enough to you when missioning to really appreciate the different textures, nor are you really interested in that if in PvP and someone gets up close.
A lot of people have mentioned using a laptop to change skills and play, yet you are looking at the latest laptops when you are making your choice here. I think you should be considering those that are possibly up to three years old, as they are the ones in use currently and those that were out before most of the huge increases in graphics card capabilities and memory that came into the arena in recent years.
Granted I don't have all of the information, but I would think one of the first steps to take is to ensure that prior to the March update an update includes a way to log the users graphics hardware against their account name during login, if it doesn't already exist, or perhaps log multiple graphics cards against their account name as other people, like myself, may play on multiple machines. A desktop or two at home, and a laptop when away on the move. This seems a relatively small change, and still allows you to gather the 250k-say 600k of records in your database, against which you can query and have accurate information. I think you might be surprised on what hardware your game is still probably being played.
Please see my brief UML diagram and notes below in the following post. |
Ruffles
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 12:19:00 -
[476]
Edited by: Ruffles on 02/02/2009 12:23:50 When it comes down to it, if making this change means loosing existing customer accounts in 3-9 months, you should be very careful. If even 5% of the existing estimated 250-300k customer base accounts cancel because of this change, you will have lost between 186,875 USD to 224,250 USD in income per month. You are talking 2,242,500 (2.2425 mil) USD to 2,691,000 (2.691 mil) USD per annum! That's probably more then enough currently to pay for the existing support of the dual codebase.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
try { // Get the Graphics Card details/name from the machine // Check if the Graphcs Card exists in your database. // If not then create the record entry to get an ID.
// Run a simple initialization and rendering test for support // of Shader Model 2 by the graphics card.
// With the result mark the graphics card's support of SM2 in the database // if we had to create the record.
// Link this user Account to the Graphics card, if it doesn't already exist.
// If it already exists, leave alone and mark somewhere locally as // already tested this system. } catch (Exception) { // Log the fact that an exception has occured during the test }
Summary:
Pros:
- A more closely matched codebase possibly allowing one line, but more likely allowing two lines with perhaps more subtle differences.
- Might be less work envolved then a refactoring project to bring the code bases in line
- Global recession is encouraging people to find more cost effective ways to entertain themselves, which often envolves some sort of gaming.
- Makes Eve pretty looking.
Cons:
- Forums are not an accurate way to gather information required for an informed decission to be made on such a large change. Data capture is by far and away the most reliable way to gather the information for such a large business case decission.
- Drops one feature that is often publiscised about being able to run on virtually any machine.
- May loose subscribers income 3-9 months after the change, as existing paid customers may no longer renew if they are unable to play.
- Forcing users to upgrade during a global recession to play a game is a bad idea, and will likely just result in users unable to afford it actually cancelling subscriptions.
- The prettiness of the game is not always the enticement/encouragement for people to play. Game play often is a more important factor, and sometimes performance is more important on that front.
- Unsure if you have an existing and accurate perception of what hardware the existing userbase is currently using.
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PYRA58
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 17:31:00 -
[477]
i think that this was a very bad move because alot of people cant affored to upgrade much like myself in this econmic time and im very displeased with eve atm you should keep the classic graffics if you still wnat my money that is if not fine ill go elsewhere
Very unhappy
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Si'quia
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 17:58:00 -
[478]
My laptop will run SM2.0 I think, it has a Intel 965 Express chip doing the graphics.
Now: I read some remarks about we should not expect CCP to make a game supporting our old computers and more stuff like that....ok, my laptop is 2 years old.
Now: my laptop runs the classic client just barely enough so I can use it to swap skills, and do marketstuff. Undocking is a bad idea...
Now: the same laptop runs that other MMORPG, what is it called again, oh yeh, World of Warcraft excellent. Just telling, because fancy graphics and latest technology and high system requirements have NO PLACE AT ALL in a MMORPG. Not telling SM2.0 is too high a requirement, but it is funny how I can WoW all I want on my laptop and barely run Eve... even in station....
CCP is aiming for millions of subscribers on the other game, you are not going to have that happen if people are not able to run it on mediocre machines, trust me (or not) |
Andresky
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 18:38:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Si'quia My laptop will run SM2.0 I think, it has a Intel 965 Express chip doing the graphics.
The GMA 965 supports up to SM 3.0 - I had one notebook a few months ago. The premium client was able to run, but only with 12-15 FPS. Not very much - but it works, so Premium Lite will do better I think/hope ;) |
Admiral Kassiea
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Posted - 2009.02.02 20:32:00 -
[480]
Master OrionStarhunter you only quoted my post you forgot to post :( |
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Vastatorex
|
Posted - 2009.02.02 22:45:00 -
[481]
Look forward to seeing the premium lite graphics.. Should be awesome...
But...have you considered a small in-station client that requires minimum graphics capability for pda/mobile/netbook. Most netbooks and older laptops could run the classic client without too many problems, and it was very handy to be able to hit a training point or check some production or market issues while on the road. This premium lite client will force me to spend less time on eve in the medium term. A Super-Lite instation client would be uber. |
Si'quia
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Posted - 2009.02.02 23:18:00 -
[482]
Originally by: AndreskyThe GMA 965 supports up to SM 3.0 - I had one notebook a few months ago. The premium client was able to run, but only with 12-15 FPS. Not very much - but it works, so Premium Lite will do better I think/hope ;)[/quote
Unfortunatly mine probably has the Q version which does not support SM3.0. It will not run the current premium client, but it runs the classic. But I am pretty sure it supports SM2.0, so if that is what they are going to use, it will not be a problem :)
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Azears
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.03 00:15:00 -
[483]
There should be a mini version that allows people to train skills without graphics. And they can even make it capable with PSP or iTouch
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Master OrionStarhunter
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Posted - 2009.02.03 07:00:00 -
[484]
Originally by: Admiral Kassiea Edited by: Admiral Kassiea on 02/02/2009 20:41:37 Master OrionStarhunter you only quoted my post you forgot to post :(
EDIT: Oh you did reply, i see what you did there, quoted your reply aswell.
Hmmm so because you say Vista is crap then it must be so, im sorry but just because you think and operating system is crap dosent mean it is, i admit its not perfect, it constantly asking you if your sure you want to do this or you need to be admin is a pain.
Ive been using Vista Home Premium for about six months and i havent had a single problem, ive had issues with EVE while using Vista but they were due to my video card drivers and not Vista, i find Vista is EXTREMLY secure, and i have yet to blue screen in Vista.
I guess it comes down to hardware if you have upto date hardware then it runs well, i bought my PC six months ago so most the hardware is modern, so i can only assume it sucks on older hardware, because alot of people seem to agree with you that it is a bad OS.
--- You purchased your system 6 months ago...ergo, you paid roughly in the neighborhood of 300+ dollars for a "new" system. Let me guess, Dell? No, the OS isn't crap if you have all the drivers to run all the hardware correctly, however this is where the problem begins...not all hardware vendors out there are using Certified Drivers for Microsoft Windows (hence all the conflicts, problems and the like with Vista).
My opinion of Vista is shared throughout the IT industry that I work in, and XP has been the only proven, reliable platform that will run all of todays applications without a hitch. The UAC (User Authorization Control) that you speak of has 2 problems.. 1. Constantly asks you if you're sure you wish to perform an admininstrative task. 2. If disabled, also disables a lot of backend security for Vista, which was set up too secure in the beginning.
Yes, all new systems are designed for Vista, and thanks to Microsoft sleeping with the hardware vendors like Dell, HP/Compaq, Gateway, Acer, and others, you now have no choice but to get Vista, unless you know the correct terms to use (can we say XP Downgrade Package?) However that was not my point entirely. The point I was making is that I can run Vista on my 4 year old Compaq Presario R3000Z without a problem (Ultimate edition), the only problem that I saw was there was no Aero Glass interface...just a standard interface, where as if I ran Ubuntu Linux 8.10, my video card performs wonderfully with all the bells and whistles it was intended to do. Matter of making your software (OS or otherwise) compatible with ALL types of hardware.
On your second point im unsure if you read my post properly, i OWNED an Alienware Aurora m9700 for two years, and i found it was fast outdated compared to a desktop pc, i had to buy external fan stools for it to keep it cool, and it barely lasted two years.
--- Yes, I did get that...but your question was, "If there is a gaming laptop, then you better have some damn good proof", to which I supplied for you.
Your point here has been well taken, however in this economy, 300 dollars pays a car payment...vs, getting a new PC just to play an online game? Again, CCP is not listening to it's customers as they claim. Most of the customers are probably Highschool kids, who's parents bought them the computer, and will continue to buy parts/upgrades to shut them up. Those of us Adults here like myself, see absolutely no reason to replace a perfectly good PC. Oh, and incase you doubt this...here is the specs on my laptop
Compaq Presario R3000Z CTO AMD Atelon 64 3200+ (2.4GHz) Processor 2 Gigabytes of memory 120 Gigabyte Hard Drive Internal DVD +-R/RW CD +-R/RW Drive 15.4" Widescreen Display (1280x800 Res) nVidia GeForce4 440 Go (64 Meg on board(not shared)) 5 in 1 Media Card Reader Windows XP Professional (SP3) Office 2007 Professional Pro Edition (Enterprise License) / Quote:
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Doublewhopper
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 13:28:00 -
[485]
Master OrionStarhunter:
Please learn how to quote. I refuse to read this wall of mixed text.
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Thrudd WellHard
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Posted - 2009.02.03 17:23:00 -
[486]
Yes its about time that a lite version was bought into eve too allow those not quite so fortunate on "Power PC`S" to experience the wonder of upgraded graphics. But, to do away with shader 2 completely by the end of the year is a mistake. Many people can afford up to the age pc`s, but quite a few cant, in light of the global economic crisis, I feel it would be prudent too wait until said economic crisis has gone and then outlaw shader 2 completely. Too risk loosing eve players and their alts, because they simply cant afford too upgrade other household pc`s aswell, is , in my opion, stupid and unwarrented when many people are struggling in todays finacial climate. I will hear many scoff , "well what the hell are you playing eve for if you cant afford this and that" Too you people i have this too say. Many of us are on a budget , some of us are disabled , WE all love too play eve, eve should not be there for people who can afford it via " hardware compatability" it should be there for all and leaving shader 2 in for most will at least allow them too play , with i point out, the new and much awaited "Eve Premium Lite" graphics upgrade. If you have never experienced premium graphics , then when you see and experience premium lite, them i ( as a premium graphics user) I think you will be blown away. Just a thought, but backwards compatability (or lack of it ) is why windows xp is still so popular , and in my opinion, why vista SUX. Thankyou. Thrudd Wellhard |
Admiral Kassiea
|
Posted - 2009.02.03 19:18:00 -
[487]
Edited by: Admiral Kassiea on 03/02/2009 19:20:16 Too Master Orion
I didnt buy a Dell, i bought it from an independent computer builder, i have learnt my lession not to buy from noob companys like Dell and Compaq you get no value for money.
Your biggest grudge with Vista it seems is that it hasent got support for your old hardware, i wonder why you would even try to put Vista on a four year old machine, surely people have gotten used to Microsoft OS's now and know not to try to put them on old machines?
I can understand why Vista wouldent have support for old hardware, who wants to support old hardware that not a massive amount of people use, the more hardware you try to support the more time and money has to be spent on that area, which could be spent else where.
Which comes back to my point now that CCP wont have to worry about bug checking there clients on SM1 they can concentrate on focusing on SM2 and SM3
Maybe we will be able to get station walking quicker now aswell since they wont have to bother with wasting time making a classic client version, i know alot of people who want classic to stay dont care for graphics, and they would probilby play if EVE was a wireframe based graphic game.
But i bet if premium got some sort of feature that classic didnt they wouldent be too happy about it lol
Your point about people not wanting to spend $300 on a new computer comes back to my point again that they only have to probibly buy a video card with SM2 support (SM3 if you want to be secure for awhile) and prehaps a bit more RAM
If people dont want to do that, then quit EVE and buy a game from 2000, alot of the people who seem like they are going to be unable to play after March look like there epic whiners anyway, so if they quit sweet, and if there miners thats even better, more ore for me.
That last paragraph is not directed at you Orion, as i seem to be able to actually have a discussion with you :) |
Dmitryilyin
Gallente Risky eXplosion Red Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.03 19:59:00 -
[488]
How about Linux support then?
I have Phenom 9950 and Geforce 7500 so it should run Premium. But how about cedega/wine support of SM3?
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Boris Malenkov
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Posted - 2009.02.03 22:53:00 -
[489]
I'm enjoying EVE, but playing it on a netbook. This lil thing runs the classic at, at most, 16fps with the classic client. It has a 945somethingorother integrated card. I bought it this Christmas, brand new. I don't care if the system is antiquated or whatnot, this is what I could afford and is what I have and will keep for a few years. Now, if come March EVE doesn't run on my netbook, I'm gonna cancel. With the economy being the way it is, and with netbooks being so cheap and available, game developers should start using these boxes as their target machines, not some 16 core, 20 gig ram, twelve graphic cards monster. Why not a more "casual" version of EVE, less graphically needy, with the same good gameplay? Better yet, why not lowering the graphics or leaving them the same as they are now, and implementing new ways to play in the game? I'm serious. A good game is not defined by it's graphics anyways. |
Kriss Deteis
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.02.04 01:25:00 -
[490]
I have a laptop ati radeon 9700 pro bought 3 years ago... classic client works like a charm at 60fps . discontinuing suport for it would suck... hell i can play bf2 online with it quite well.
i hope i will play eve next year on this lappy.
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Admiral Kassiea
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Posted - 2009.02.04 01:38:00 -
[491]
YES Boris Malenkov YOUVE SOLVED THE ISSUE!
All developers should just make games for five year old machines, or better yet lets go back to sprite based games, who even needs 3D!
DOOM FTW
.... |
Master OrionStarhunter
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Posted - 2009.02.04 02:34:00 -
[492]
Originally by: Admiral Kassiea Edited by: Admiral Kassiea on 03/02/2009 19:20:16 Too Master Orion
I didnt buy a Dell, i bought it from an independent computer builder, i have learnt my lession not to buy from noob companys like Dell and Compaq you get no value for money.
Dell, HP/Compaq, Gateway, Sony, and the others are not as you put it, noob, companies. Most of my business for my clients goes to supporting HP/Compaq and Dell systems.
Quote:
Your biggest grudge with Vista it seems is that it hasent got support for your old hardware, i wonder why you would even try to put Vista on a four year old machine, surely people have gotten used to Microsoft OS's now and know not to try to put them on old machines?
To answer this question, yes they do. Perfectly good example, Windows XP. Has all the drivers with it for the older machines, constantly updates itself, and was a breeze to install. Yes, it had its flaws, and was designed to be backwards compatible. Try installing XP on a Vista machine today...you can't. No drivers for XP available for it. Why? Due to the way that the hardware has been designed...and that the companies devoted their time to creating Vista drivers, not XP drivers as a fall back. Vista requires 2xs the system requirements and system resources that XP did, not to mention a rediculous 16 gigabyte installation min, where as XP only needed 4 min, and 512Mb of memory.
Quote:
I can understand why Vista wouldent have support for old hardware, who wants to support old hardware that not a massive amount of people use, the more hardware you try to support the more time and money has to be spent on that area, which could be spent else where.
Really? So, then what you're saying is that banks for example, who are still using DOS based systems, and AS400 machines which I may add are over a decade old, are behind the times? Ok, and yet every payday, where does your check go? May wish to think about that for a moment...I know I would, since they aren't on Vista...(Seriously, be realistic)
Quote:
Which comes back to my point now that CCP wont have to worry about bug checking there clients on SM1 they can concentrate on focusing on SM2 and SM3
Maybe we will be able to get station walking quicker now aswell since they wont have to bother with wasting time making a classic client version, i know alot of people who want classic to stay dont care for graphics, and they would probilby play if EVE was a wireframe based graphic game.
Now that we've debated the old technology vs. new technology argument (feel like I'm debating for president here...lol) the point rolls back to this plain, simple idea. CCP's idea of forcing the Pixel Shader 2.0 engine over the 1.0 engine is going to cost them more of a headache than they realize. I read on an earlier post that someone had purchased a system a little over a year ago, that will only run the classic edition (whether it be a laptop or not, makes no difference), and to behonest, this is very far from what the true issue that exists, needs to be addressed.
First off, the Jita system. How many of you (Premium or Classic) have gone in here, went to dock at a station, and there is so much carnage happening, the system lag is just absolutely rediculious? Am I the only one? Nope. All of us have experienced this. So, how about this as a solution...ADD MORE SERVERS TO COVER THE LOAD of the current system? Yes, keep classic, add Premium Lite and keep Premium (I may be wrong, but don't they charge for Prem???)
Quote:
If people dont want to do that, then quit EVE and buy a game from 2000, alot of the people who seem like they are going to be unable to play after March look like there epic whiners anyway, so if they quit sweet, and if there miners thats even better, more ore for me.
Well now whether it was directed to me or not, still not something nice to say to those of us... |
Master OrionStarhunter
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 03:24:00 -
[493]
Edited by: Master OrionStarhunter on 04/02/2009 03:36:52 Hello Everyone,
For those of you who have been reading the replies back and forth to the Admiral and myself, I'm honestly not trying to be a jerk, I simply would love to see CCP listen up and give us their input here, since they supposedly claim all of "us" users have made an impression, that perhaps now they will listen once more, and consider what they should be doing, rather than making more eyecandy for what I consider to be already a work of art, when it comes to all of the space faring, science fiction based games out there.
Eve Online is a wonderful game that all of us enjoy, no matter what system we play it on, until the March deadline. The case and point I was trying to make in the very beginning is that Eve Online should remain a game that is supported by most (within reason) systems. Let's face it, none of us want to leave such a wonderful game, and in this day of economic recession, for some the solution of upgrading their video card and memory may be an alternative to keep playing, whereas the rest of us live on a tight budget, and this option just simply doesn't exist. We could be trading off a car payment to play a game we love so much (and that's not a very responsible thing to do.) but we choose not to. The sad part of it all is that CCP has in it's power to keep the classic version which will work for most systems on the market clear back to 5 years ago, add the Premium Lite version for those who know that their hardware can add a little more flavor to the universe, and the Premium edition, which was originally added to spice up the game altogether.
I propose this, and I would like to hear from any and all of you on this...(except for those of you who intend to simply come up with a smart ass remark and are not intelligent enough to even partake in this conversation).
I propose that the Eve Client be completely redone. Here is my thought process..
1 Client, that can handle all 3 versions, Classic, Premium Lite, and Premium. The client can automatically determine what your system's capabilities are, thus allowing the entire group of users to still enjoy such an already wonderful game. Sure, it's 3 seperate codes to maintain, but stop to think about this...do you really think that the Lite version is going to be bug free upon first release? I don't.
This is something I would love to see, thus allowing backwards compatibility to those of us already playing who either don't, or can't afford to purchase new hardware (and in the case of laptops, can't because you simply can't replace items like the video card...it's part of the main board...unless you get creative, and find a board with processor that fits your case with an updated card...and believe me I'm looking on Ebay at the moment) and allows for those of you out there who are wanting to upgrade your system to benifit from the new eyecandy.
This is the attempt to make "everyone" happy. We win as users, and CCP wins, being able to keep current players and bringing in new ones. If I'm completely out in left field here, which I doubt, then at this point, I will cease contact on this forum.
And to my dear Admirial, I meant no disrespect to you, just simply wanted to get an idea across to make everyone happy. I did enjoy our heated, intelligent debates. :) Fly safe, and mine all you can...if I'm not able to do so here after March 10th. Just do me one favor...when you're mining...strip all the fields in the honor of my name!
Best regards all,
Master Orion Starhunter Ambassador of Diplomatic Affairs Black Scorpion Navy
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Doublewhopper
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:51:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Boris Malenkov I'm enjoying EVE, but playing it on a netbook. This lil thing runs the classic at, at most, 16fps with the classic client. It has a 945somethingorother integrated card. I bought it this Christmas, brand new. I don't care if the system is antiquated or whatnot, this is what I could afford and is what I have and will keep for a few years. Now, if come March EVE doesn't run on my netbook, I'm gonna cancel. With the economy being the way it is, and with netbooks being so cheap and available, game developers should start using these boxes as their target machines, not some 16 core, 20 gig ram, twelve graphic cards monster. Why not a more "casual" version of EVE, less graphically needy, with the same good gameplay? Better yet, why not lowering the graphics or leaving them the same as they are now, and implementing new ways to play in the game? I'm serious. A good game is not defined by it's graphics anyways.
/signed
If it won't run on a Netbook, it will be unacceptable, given the fact that it runs now.
These things are sold NOW. If something is sold NEW today and not used, it should be considered up to date hardware.
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Master OrionStarhunter
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Posted - 2009.02.04 15:22:00 -
[495]
Originally by: Doublewhopper
Originally by: Boris Malenkov I'm enjoying EVE, but playing it on a netbook. This lil thing runs the classic at, at most, 16fps with the classic client. It has a 945somethingorother integrated card. I bought it this Christmas, brand new. I don't care if the system is antiquated or whatnot, this is what I could afford and is what I have and will keep for a few years. Now, if come March EVE doesn't run on my netbook, I'm gonna cancel. With the economy being the way it is, and with netbooks being so cheap and available, game developers should start using these boxes as their target machines, not some 16 core, 20 gig ram, twelve graphic cards monster. Why not a more "casual" version of EVE, less graphically needy, with the same good gameplay? Better yet, why not lowering the graphics or leaving them the same as they are now, and implementing new ways to play in the game? I'm serious. A good game is not defined by it's graphics anyways.
/signed
If it won't run on a Netbook, it will be unacceptable, given the fact that it runs now.
These things are sold NOW. If something is sold NEW today and not used, it should be considered up to date hardware.
I agree with both of you 100%. New netbooks are roughly in the neighborhood of between 300-400 dollars new, and with them being the "new" technology, there's no excuse why CCP can't pick up a couple of these, and say...Hey it should work on this one (and the 945 doesn't have any Pixel Shader support at all, nor does my nVidia Geforce4 440 Go 64), and if it doesn't...then perhaps we are travelling in the wrong direction here...
If I'm not mistake, wasn't the sole purpose of Eve to run on multiple platforms, have wonderful graphics and not have that high of system requirements, which is what made it stand out in the first place? |
Ankhesentapemkah
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 16:41:00 -
[496]
Discontinuing one of the clients is a good step I suppose as that will cut development time.
However I don't think that discontinuing shader model 3 is a good idea, quite a few people I know run on Radeon cards in the X600-X850 range and those cards do not support shader model 3 while still being more than powerful enough to run Eve otherwise. |
Fin Ality
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 23:00:00 -
[497]
I applaud the move to shadermodel 2. However, I would find the move to shadermodel3 somewhat distasteful as I do play mostly on my laptop which supports 2 but not 3. Portable computers are just not upgradeable like desktop models are. It may be nothing to upgrade my videocard for my desktop but, it is a completely different story for my laptop. (HP Pavilion DV 8110us) I currently have no plans to replace my laptop as money is tight currently, so could not move to shadermodel3 and would discontinue playing if that switch were implemented.
.
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Plekto
Templar Republic Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.04 23:57:00 -
[498]
Edited by: Plekto on 05/02/2009 00:01:03 Edited by: Plekto on 05/02/2009 00:00:10
Originally by: Master OrionStarhunter
I agree with both of you 100%. New netbooks are roughly in the neighborhood of between 300-400 dollars new, and with them being the "new" technology, there's no excuse why CCP can't pick up a couple of these, and say...Hey it should work on this one (and the 945 doesn't have any Pixel Shader support at all, nor does my nVidia Geforce4 440 Go 64), and if it doesn't...then perhaps we are travelling in the wrong direction here...
But the new NVidia Ion will. Basic Specs
Cheap and works. The basic dual core Atom board without the daughter board(topmost picture at that link) will run about $100. It will have video, 1 sata, 1 memory slot, USB, firewire, and ethernet. If you run EVE without sound like I do, that's all you need. Drop that in a box with a 50W+ power supply and you're done. The daughter board is if you want to run HD content and have a fully capable PC. But a lot of netbooks and similar won't need all of that, other than maybe a couple of audio out jacks and similar, which are no big deal for a typical laptop maker.
Ion Review
Very slick and very small. It does deliver hi-def video and does run modern games at a few FPS - but we're talking about 20-25fps in COD 4, for goodness sake. It'll run the slimmed-down EVE client just fine.
Another Review
Time to upgrade, people. Things get old and that's just the way it is. After all, if CCP doesn't get walking in stations and planets working in the next 18-24 months, Elite Online/Elite 4 will be out by then and will obliterate half of their customer base. It will have planets - complete with cities(think Shadowrun or similar while on planet!), Fully interactive stations, Newtonian physics, a much better group of people working on it in terms of fixing bugs and dealing with feedback(based upon how the company making it deals with support issues and patches for their current games vs CCP), and it'll likely cost less per month.
Will it be better? Only time will tell. But will it hurt EVE if EVE has half the features by comparison? It doesn't take even a newbie to figure out that answer.
It's a hard market out there. Either CCP adds new content or they die off like Planetside and Earth and Beyond did. This requires some growing pains by everyone, like it or not.
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Ta'na
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 01:20:00 -
[499]
Edited by: Ta''na on 05/02/2009 01:20:38
Originally by: Master OrionStarhunter 16 gigabyte installation min
Dude, when terabyte hard drives are coming onto the market, and external hard drives are as cheap as they are(100 gig, $20), 16 gig is nothing.
Originally by: Master OrionStarhunter
I read on an earlier post that someone had purchased a system a little over a year ago, that will only run the classic edition (whether it be a laptop or not, makes no difference), and to behonest, this is very far from what the true issue that exists, needs to be addressed.
That would be my post, and CCP is kindly helping me figure out why im having graphics problems since I meet the system req's, making it so this is no longer a valid line of evidence.
(aside) - thanks CCP, but I could use the verdict on whats up.
|
Ta'na
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 01:27:00 -
[500]
Edited by: Ta''na on 05/02/2009 01:27:34
Originally by: Plekto Edited by: Plekto on 05/02/2009 00:01:03 Edited by: Plekto on 05/02/2009 00:00:10
Originally by: Master OrionStarhunter
I agree with both of you 100%. New netbooks are roughly in the neighborhood of between 300-400 dollars new, and with them being the "new" technology, there's no excuse why CCP can't pick up a couple of these, and say...Hey it should work on this one (and the 945 doesn't have any Pixel Shader support at all, nor does my nVidia Geforce4 440 Go 64), and if it doesn't...then perhaps we are travelling in the wrong direction here...
But the new NVidia Ion will. Basic Specs
Cheap and works. The basic dual core Atom board without the daughter board(topmost picture at that link) will run about $100. It will have video, 1 sata, 1 memory slot, USB, firewire, and ethernet. If you run EVE without sound like I do, that's all you need. Drop that in a box with a 50W+ power supply and you're done. The daughter board is if you want to run HD content and have a fully capable PC. But a lot of netbooks and similar won't need all of that, other than maybe a couple of audio out jacks and similar, which are no big deal for a typical laptop maker.
Ion Review
Very slick and very small. It does deliver hi-def video and does run modern games at a few FPS - but we're talking about 20-25fps in COD 4, for goodness sake. It'll run the slimmed-down EVE client just fine.
Another Review
Time to upgrade, people. Things get old and that's just the way it is. After all, if CCP doesn't get walking in stations and planets working in the next 18-24 months, Elite Online/Elite 4 will be out by then and will obliterate half of their customer base. It will have planets - complete with cities(think Shadowrun or similar while on planet!), Fully interactive stations, Newtonian physics, a much better group of people working on it in terms of fixing bugs and dealing with feedback(based upon how the company making it deals with support issues and patches for their current games vs CCP), and it'll likely cost less per month.
Will it be better? Only time will tell. But will it hurt EVE if EVE has half the features by comparison? It doesn't take even a newbie to figure out that answer.
It's a hard market out there. Either CCP adds new content or they die off like Planetside and Earth and Beyond did. This requires some growing pains by everyone, like it or not.
Yeah right, Elite online from the appearance of all internet research on it appears to currently be entirely hypothetical. How is a game that likely isn't even in full production (otherwise they would have a website, and a blog and all that) gonna beat eve to the punch if they're not there in 24 months? |
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Plekto
Templar Republic Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.05 01:46:00 -
[501]
The real question, IMO, is how CCP can keep from shooting itself in the foot if it doesn't upgrade the video requirements. Remember, this is CCP we're talking about. They are famous for getting it wrong and moving too slowly. they just might not get it all done by 2010/2011 a this rate. Especially if they are still saddled with a DirectX 8.0 engine. |
John plissken
Caldari Terminal Logic NIght's Dawn
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 06:40:00 -
[502]
Why do people buy crappy laptops & expect to be able to play games on them? the laptop is a working tool, invented for business people to be able to work whilst on the move. why waste your money on something that has awful sound quality, dodgy graphics, a screen the becomes unreadable when the tiniest amount of sunlight hits it? i have no sympathy for the people with older laptops who'll have to upgarde. if you wanted to play games with your pc you should have bought a real one. they're a hell of a lot cheaper & even the cheapest pc's out now support at least sm2. hell, couple of extra bucks & you've got one with sm4. imagine how long it'll be before eve gets to that stage, years!
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Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2009.02.05 09:08:00 -
[503]
Originally by: John plissken Why do people buy crappy laptops & expect to be able to play games on them? the laptop is a working tool, invented for business people to be able to work whilst on the move. why waste your money on something that has awful sound quality, dodgy graphics, a screen the becomes unreadable when the tiniest amount of sunlight hits it? i have no sympathy for the people with older laptops who'll have to upgarde. if you wanted to play games with your pc you should have bought a real one. they're a hell of a lot cheaper & even the cheapest pc's out now support at least sm2. hell, couple of extra bucks & you've got one with sm4. imagine how long it'll be before eve gets to that stage, years!
Why do you post here if you have not read the arguments of other people?
I use 4 computers to accommodate all my accounts. Two of them are older laptops.
I do not care about lag. I do not care about great graphics. I do not care what you think a gamer is.
But this is the situation for many people:
They run alts on an alt-encouraging game, using the hardware that they have or have gotten cheaply. This means mostly laptops.
Now when the classic client goes away, i simply loose functionality. I do not expect to do PVP or lag-free missions or whatever high-end stuff on my 6 year old laptop.
I do however need it to haul afk across empire, use it to trade in the market and do some mining with it. All that is lost now. The laptop(s) did it just fine and nobody expected them to do more.
Now you need to get new hardware for those secondary tasks and that seems unreasonable.
This will result in alt-accounts cancelled and maybe also main-accounts due to loss of fun.
NOW FOR THE FLAMEBAIT:
People in here flame people for being to poor to upgrade laptops. And that they shouldntt use laptops and get a real computer and how cheap that is and so on...
Well i repeat that you don't get the point here. It rather seems that these people with their "big computers" are so poor that they can only afford one computer together with one account.
So they have actually no idea why we use those laptops in the first place.
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Fin Ality
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Posted - 2009.02.05 15:24:00 -
[504]
Once more the flames are spreading, and ruining a topical discussion. Here are some things to keep in mind:
1) CCP doesn't sell expansions, they sell gametime. Whether it's traded in for ISK's or just the monthly subscription. If they lose players they lose all the income generated by those players and it goes to some other company or firm.
2) Most players including myself have more than one account. Losing players does not translate 1-1 to accounts. It can be as high as 5-1. If there are currently 100,000 subscribers how many of those are actually alt accounts? There's no way for us the player to know only CCP has those figures.
3) Losing subscriptions translates into bad feelings and in marketing everyone knows that a satisfied customer may tell a friend about their experience. A mad or unsatisfied customer will spew that to the heavens and on average tells 7 others about their misfortune. Dissatisfaction by a large portion of the playerbase leads to dissintigration of the game. Ever heard of SWG? SOE did something similar there with their N.G.E. and all but destroyed their own game. How you ask? Word of mouth trumps brilliant marketing.
4) Whether a person has the money to upgrade or not is irrelevant. That's right you heard me, irrelevant. Upgrades don't grow playerbases. Satisfied customers do. Period. The more enjoyable the play experience the more likely someone is to tell a friend. The higher the system requirements are for playing a game the less people you will have playing said game. That translates into less dollars for the developer. In a slumping economy every dollar counts, not just for the player, but also for the development team itself. If the dollars shrink so do the employees. How many companies across the globe are currently hacking and slashing jobs?
5) If people are currently able to play a game and a change in the basic game subsystem then makes the game unplayable for them. This is not the same thing as a commodore64 not being able to play DVD's. That is a childlike argument and has the intelligence of junior high education. It is however the same thing as what SOE did with the luclin expansion in the days of everquest. It was the move to upgrade their graphics engine to the point of excluding users. That was the very first sign of declining sales for Everquest. Kill your playerbase, kill your game.
6) If you care about Eve and want it to continue forget about dollars, forget about hardware. Start thinking players. How many players do you think CCP can afford to lose before they have to shut their doors and you all have to say goodbye permanently to Eve. Just ask yourself if you want to keep alienating players by flaming them. If too many of us quit playing there will be no eve. CCP does not have deep pockets. They do not have unlimited resources (which is part of why they're doing this in the first place). Players keep folding pretty soon the house closes up shop and moves on to something else.
Are your hurtful words toward others really worth losing the privelidge of playing Eve?
-imchillyb- .
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jason hill
Caldari Clan Shadow Wolf Sylph Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 19:40:00 -
[505]
yarrrrrr ! shader model 4.1 happy dance happy dance |
Doryd'oh
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 22:54:00 -
[506]
I have never played any other game where an expansion makes the original unplayable on the same hardware. The latest WoW expansion for example requires Win XP, but the requirements for all previous content didn't change. But you know, Iceland is not the home of financial geniuses. Upgrading my stuff so I can play your new version will allow me to play a whole lot of other games too, that I have been wanting to try but was incompatible with my OS. You could just make it so the new requirements are only necessary if you go into wormhole space, and leave the rest of it alone. |
YaSiS
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 00:14:00 -
[507]
Laptops arent made for serious gaming, its office multimedia, onboard graphics cards are slow, unless you pay 2k for a laptop -_- for much less you can buy a sweet rig!,or just upgrade a few parts. You dont play crysis with your laptop and then yell hey i cant play it smooth ! crytek sucks no your rig sucks.. Many MMo games are coming in todays standards they aint sitting down on their ass so CCP cant lay down they have to upgrade and upgrade to compete with the others. And dont whine about 'ccp you gonna lose many alt players' CCP is gonna lose players if some other company comes out with some EVE Copy MMO game then its game over so CCP keep upgrading.
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Master OrionStarhunter
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Posted - 2009.02.06 19:22:00 -
[508]
And yet again, I'm amazed to the ignorence of some of the comments...why did you buy a crappy laptop in the first place??? Hmm, let me think back about 4 years...Oh yeah, that's right, because it was customizable, it was cutting edge technology at that time, and I could afford it then. (All 2100.00 worth). Not to mention the fact that it smoked my P3 desktop out of the water. So, since I was able to play games, do my work, and Oh yeah, ITS PORTABLE...I was pretty happy.
What kills me is that I have been testing it lately, and I am able to Play Counterstrike: Source without a problem, so why not be able to play Eve Premium Lite? Who knows, all I know is that the original purpose of this conversation has how since faded from why they are changing it, to flaming those of us who can't afford to upgrade something that is not upgradable...
Fly Safe
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Tabea Knute
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Posted - 2009.02.06 21:28:00 -
[509]
I want to complement here one real point: The arrival of Win7 is possible at the end of this year. Is CCP or any other is thinking that anyone will buy a new laptop/desktop before this arrival? Sorry, no. Dropping the classic client at this point would make perfect sense. But not now. |
Fuji Tamura
Relentless Storm Cartel
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 18:51:00 -
[510]
I'm almost afraid to ask...but here it goes (I really don't understand all the techno numbers and specs)
I have quad core @ 2.4ghz and 4gb ram
and I have a ATI Radeon HD 2600XT video card
Is this enough?
Thanks
|
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Gaya Lordess
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:08:00 -
[511]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Grigori Black So how do you check to see if your computer runs Shader Model 2?
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/
- Free
- No troyans / adware / registration / bull
- No installer
- Small
Launch it, tell to not update, look to the right where it says "SM" in a little cell.
Mine says 3.0
/me is joyous |
Doublewhopper
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 17:39:00 -
[512]
Edited by: Doublewhopper on 09/02/2009 17:56:11 Well you can forget all things and hopes discussed in here or other threads.
You can say GOODBYE TO ALL LAPTOPS with GeforceGo 5200 or cheap GMA chipsets and so on...
The Premium lite client is available on the testserver as patch for the premium client.
With classic i get 30 fps. With Premium lite i get 0,3 fps in space with everything turned off.
======== UPDATE:
Played a little more with the settings. I get 12 fps now, but the graphics look broken now... |
Mikalya
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.02.09 20:21:00 -
[513]
I find it interesting that while this debate rages on, the only other game I play is going through a similar problem and massively updating its graphics. Their Devs' comments?
Quote:
Many of you have been wondering about how the upcoming terrain changes will affect the performance on machines that are just getting by in the current version. Graphically low end systems (such as anything with an onboard Intel graphics chip) should not see any decline in performance because they won't be able to utilize the new enhancements. They will still be able to run the game and without a performance hit, but they will take a hit to how the terrain looks. This is due to the fact that different types of terrain will not blend in to each other where they touch. Instead, there will be a hard line where that terrain transition occurs and it will result in checkerboard look in the terrain textures. It won't look as good but it will still be playable and that is the best we can do while still moving forward.
Aceshigh Dev announcement
Seems to me that someone actually has stats on how many customers their changes will hurt, and actually cares |
Nathanael Ashcroft
Incursus Academy
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 14:37:00 -
[514]
Edited by: Nathanael Ashcroft on 11/02/2009 14:42:34 Edited by: Nathanael Ashcroft on 11/02/2009 14:40:10 Please CCP, keep the classic for a little more time !!
2 mounth, the ultimatum is very short...
If you want your game to be the more democratic it can be, you just HAVE the keep the classic running. Because even if someone can barely run the Premium "Lite" there will always be more performance issue that with the classic version.
Classic is for those who just want to play, to enjoy YOUR game, YOUR universe. I don't need Premium content to be a true EVE fan, or a true EVE player.
Many player are running the classic version atm, what about them ? Upgrade or die ?
Sounds a bit dictatorial...
---------
I don't speak about me and myself... I'm not whinning for a peanut ...
Quote:
* OS: Windows« XP / Vista * CPU: Intel Pentium« or AMD @ 1 GHz * RAM: XP û 1 GB / Vista û 1.5 GB * HD space: 6gig Free Space * Network: 56k modem or better Internet connection * Video: 64 MB Shader Model 2.0 Graphics cards such as GeForce FX (5 series) class card or higher, ATi 9500, x300 series or higher and Similar chips from other manufacturers * Drivers: DirectX« 9.0c (included) and latest video drivers * DVD-ROM : 2 speed DVD reader or greater required.
Is that the new minimal requirments ? Fair I just need a new graphic card ... Pretty cheap.
But the way you decide to change MINIMAL requirements for EVE is a bit rude. I talk about thousands of people.
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Bodhisattvas
Counter Errorist Unit
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 23:32:00 -
[515]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Ix Forres
Originally by: Avon Well, my laptop is now junk.
Thanks a lot.
Please send replacement to the address on my account details. Thx.
If you're running a laptop without SM2, time to upgrade. My EeePC can do SM2.
If you are paying I am happy to upgrade.
Otherwise I'll just spend the money on my mortgage, bills, and just generally surviving if that is okay with you.
Sir,
I find your dedication to eve sadly lacking. Starvation and being homeless would be far more preferable to being without the comforting cotton wool reality shielded world of internet spaceships.
Perhaps you could sell a limb or two ? apparently we have spare lungs etc.
Yours,
A disgusted evester.
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Shereza
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 07:29:00 -
[516]
So will the "Premium Lite" client also be as stable as the Classic engine?
Just figured I'd ask since I've had a couple magnitudes more crashes under the current Premium engine than the Classic engine. I'd say infinitely more but I'm sure I must've had some graphics-related crashes from Classic over the 2.5 years I've been playing. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Nathanael Ashcroft
Incursus Academy
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 13:25:00 -
[517]
Edited by: Nathanael Ashcroft on 12/02/2009 13:29:49
Originally by: Shereza So will the "Premium Lite" client also be as stable as the Classic engine? Just figured I'd ask since I've had a couple magnitudes more crashes under the current Premium engine than the Classic engine.
This is a good question... And one of the first reasons that made me ask CCP to keep the Classic engine alive. _________________
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Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.02.12 21:23:00 -
[518]
Originally by: Doublewhopper Edited by: Doublewhopper on 09/02/2009 17:56:11 Well you can forget all things and hopes discussed in here or other threads.
You can say GOODBYE TO ALL LAPTOPS with GeforceGo 5200 or cheap GMA chipsets and so on...
The Premium lite client is available on the testserver as patch for the premium client.
With classic i get 30 fps. With Premium lite i get 0,3 fps in space with everything turned off.
======== UPDATE:
Played a little more with the settings. I get 12 fps now, but the graphics look broken now...
You do realise that you're playing on a TEST Server?
What that means, in plain english is that there's a lot of bloat in the code that won't be there come march 10th - you're playing on debug code which has a lot of extra stuff in it & isn't yet fully optimised.
Some people are just too stupid. ===================================== It smells of spoon! ===================================== |
Jim Outright
Gallente Nightfall Inc
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Posted - 2009.02.13 09:07:00 -
[519]
Sorry to be a pain, but just adding to the list of laptop user's who would suffer a mental illness of some kind if I couldnt get on Eve when out and about.
Would love to see the Lite client on SM2 and a premium on SM3 tho :) (lots of hard work obviously - but it'd make alot of us chuffed to bits) :P
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Schwester Minotaur
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Posted - 2009.02.13 12:55:00 -
[520]
CCP - Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaase - keep the Classic Version. I have a Laptop with PS 1.4 - and its worthless if you do PS2.0 upgrade on Premium Lite Client.
Dont do this.
I dont need Ambulation with my laptop - i just wanna trade. My Main Computer has it, but its much better doing stuff on other screen.
Please rethink your decision
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Grendow
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Posted - 2009.02.13 16:35:00 -
[521]
i support the upgrade to sm2 (and sm3)... stop waste time on the old crap... :) |
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.02.13 17:48:00 -
[522]
Originally by: Jim Outright Sorry to be a pain, but just adding to the list of laptop user's who would suffer a mental illness of some kind if I couldnt get on Eve when out and about.
Would love to see the Lite client on SM2 and a premium on SM3 tho :) (lots of hard work obviously - but it'd make alot of us chuffed to bits) :P
If I'm reading your post right you're asking for exactly what CCP are going to do
Premium Lite = SM2.0 Premium = SM3.0
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Plekto
Templar Republic Arcane Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 02:56:00 -
[523]
Originally by: Doryd'oh I have never played any other game where an expansion makes the original unplayable on the same hardware. new ver The latest WoW expansion for example requires Win XP, but the requirements for all previous content didn't change.
I've never played a modern game that still worked with Direct X 8.0. The issue here is that CCP's engine is literally 5-6 year old technology compared to the rest of the industry's 3-4 year old stuff. WoW works because it was already shader 2.0(DirectX 9) from day one as a requirement.
Q: how many people with these crummy laptops can actually play WoW even? Right. Not a single one, because they all require shader 2.0. At some time the ancient relics of the past need to be retired. What CCP is asking for is that you have a laptop or computer with a video card/chip set made in the last SIX years. December 19, 2002 in fact - the release date for DirectX 9.0.
DirectX 8.0 was released November 12, 2000.
That's not unreasonable. Not if CCP wants to gain new players and remain competitive. |
Doublewhopper
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 04:08:00 -
[524]
Originally by: Plekto
Originally by: Doryd'oh I have never played any other game where an expansion makes the original unplayable on the same hardware. new ver The latest WoW expansion for example requires Win XP, but the requirements for all previous content didn't change.
I've never played a modern game that still worked with Direct X 8.0. The issue here is that CCP's engine is literally 5-6 year old technology compared to the rest of the industry's 3-4 year old stuff. WoW works because it was already shader 2.0(DirectX 9) from day one as a requirement.
Q: how many people with these crummy laptops can actually play WoW even? Right. Not a single one, because they all require shader 2.0. At some time the ancient relics of the past need to be retired. What CCP is asking for is that you have a laptop or computer with a video card/chip set made in the last SIX years. December 19, 2002 in fact - the release date for DirectX 9.0.
DirectX 8.0 was released November 12, 2000.
That's not unreasonable. Not if CCP wants to gain new players and remain competitive.
Are you imagining things right up as they fit for your argumentation? Didn't know a Geforce 2 is capable of SM2.0, but please enlighten me...
The listed requirements for WoW are:
Quote:
Processor:
Minimum: Intel Pentium 4 1.3 GHz or AMD Athlon XP 1500+ Recommended: Dual-core processor, such as the Intel Pentium D or AMD Athlon 64 X2
Memory:
Minimum: 512 MB RAM (1GB for Vista users) Recommended: 1 GB RAM (2 GB for Vista users)
Video:
Minimum: 3D graphics processor with Hardware Transform and Lighting with 32 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon 7200 or NVIDIA GeForce 2 class card or better Recommended: 3D graphics processor with Vertex and Pixel Shader capability with 128 MB VRAM Such as an ATI Radeon X1600 or NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT class card or better
And no, i will not argue about the recommended hardware. I don't want to PVP in EVE either with my old hardware. I just want to mine, haul and support my accounts on my high-end machines. Is that too much to ask for?
Why can't we autogenerate SM1.0 models out of SM2.0 models?
Why can't we have a wireframe or shaded vector client? Or the stylish spheres that represent the T3 ships on the current testserver?
|
Cyxopyc
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 08:03:00 -
[525]
Originally by: Doublewhopper
Why can't we have a wireframe or shaded vector client? Or the stylish spheres that represent the T3 ships on the current testserver?
Eve could be played with graphics from the 1980s, and played well. The reasons for _not_ giving players such a client are probably important to CCP. I will speculate...
1) Generating a different version of a client takes time. No matter how 'easy' it is to make it, it still takes time. And time is money.
2) In this world if you make changes to software so that it might work on a wider range of hardware then you indirectly start supporting that hardware, even if you say you don't support the hardware. Pretty soon people will want updates and support. It's much easier to restrict what your software will run on.
3) If EVE were playable without graphics it might tarnish the game somehow and would not market well. Who would try a game that is so 'weak' it could be played with nothing for graphics and ancient hardware requirements? "Grow a sack and upgrade!"
I'm still wishing for more graphics to be disabled with a check box like they did for drones. I doubt CCP is going to make any more steps 'backward' for us. |
Nelis Th'Khan
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 09:39:00 -
[526]
Would it be possible to give the status of ShaderModel 2/3 out on the login screen. I want to be sure that my computer(s) run with the new client after March 10 and with ShaderModell 3. The eve client has a better view on my graphics card capability than I do. Having this information on my screen it would be not much additional effort to send it to CCP and run a few statistics on how many hours are played with in future incompatible computers.
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The Rincewind
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.02.14 21:02:00 -
[527]
Well since the HD3800, we have shader 4.1 available... also in older AGP8x Computer.
I d say Shader 3 in Winter is ok, as long as premium lite version makes ppl still able the run EvE 3x without any bigger problems.
I still play on 32bit System (XP3200+ 2GB RAM) and can t afford a new Hardware environment, just to play like now.
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K1RTH G3RS3N
Haunted House BROTHERS GRIM.
|
Posted - 2009.02.15 10:05:00 -
[528]
does this meam eve wont work on my $200 computer anymore?
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Doublewhopper
|
Posted - 2009.02.15 12:25:00 -
[529]
Edited by: Doublewhopper on 15/02/2009 12:25:06
Originally by: K1RTH G3RS3N does this meam eve wont work on my $200 computer anymore?
No, it will not work on your $200 computer anymore, because the $$$ are worthless due to the global economy. If you had a Ç300 computer it might still work.
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Etana Elsam
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 19:04:00 -
[530]
Originally by: Gaya Lordess
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Grigori Black So how do you check to see if your computer runs Shader Model 2?
http://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/
- Free
- No troyans / adware / registration / bull
- No installer
- Small
Launch it, tell to not update, look to the right where it says "SM" in a little cell.
Mine says 3.0
/me is joyous
SM 1.4. :( Looks like I'll be moving to another game. -2 paying accounts for CCP.
|
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Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
|
Posted - 2009.02.19 15:41:00 -
[531]
Originally by: Etana Elsam SM 1.4. :( Looks like I'll be moving to another game. -2 paying accounts for CCP.
If that's a laptop then I'm sorry for you...
If it's a desktop and has a free PCI (not even AGP or PCI-E) slot then you are an idiot...
You're paying for 2 accounts: that's around $30 a month?
For the price of one month's eve subs you could afford to get a SM 3.0 capable card like this. ===================================== It smells of spoon! ===================================== |
Chen Mubai
|
Posted - 2009.02.20 01:37:00 -
[532]
Perhaps I'm being a dufus, but is Premium Lite available for testing yet?
I've just come form the test server patching page, but can't find any reference to my current holy grail. Is it elsewhere?
Le Chen |
Thorvik
Minmatar Valklear Guard
|
Posted - 2009.02.20 05:14:00 -
[533]
Edited by: Thorvik on 20/02/2009 05:14:29 Just bought a laptop and have been playing Eve on it (Classic) and has been working beautifully. My vid does support Shadermodel 2 but not 3, so I guess my days are numbered.
In today's economic climate I already have bought this thing (my wife needs a laptop) and we share the computer so a laptop was necessary. RL sucks for things like this.
Can't afford another desktop atm but we'll have to see when SM 3 happens. Linkage |
Tranka Verrane
Public Venture Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.02.20 09:43:00 -
[534]
Originally by: Thorvik Edited by: Thorvik on 20/02/2009 05:14:29 Just bought a laptop and have been playing Eve on it (Classic) and has been working beautifully. My vid does support Shadermodel 2 but not 3, so I guess my days are numbered.
In today's economic climate I already have bought this thing (my wife needs a laptop) and we share the computer so a laptop was necessary. RL sucks for things like this.
Can't afford another desktop atm but we'll have to see when SM 3 happens.
Man alive, why does nobody read the devblogs?
To repeat:
"Based on your feedback we are going to commit to making ShaderModel 2 the minimum requirement (graphics wise) in the Apocrypha release, as well as replacing the Classic client with Premium Lite which will contain the same graphics and models as the regular Premium client but downmix the textures to increase performance on lower end computers.
We will however not pursue going to ShaderModel 3 as a minimum, at least for now. It's quite apparent that while an overwhelming majority has no problems with moving to ShaderModel 2, there are still quite a few (mostly laptop) users out there that cannot support ShaderModel 3 yet. We're going to continue monitoring hardware trends closely and will revise our plan on a regular basis."
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=617
Ingame: Channels&Mailing lists>Channels>Join>PVE>OK |
Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2009.02.20 11:59:00 -
[535]
Originally by: Chen Mubai Perhaps I'm being a dufus, but is Premium Lite available for testing yet?
I've just come form the test server patching page, but can't find any reference to my current holy grail. Is it elsewhere?
Le Chen
You aren't as I'm not sure it's clear in the devblogs.
The current test build (for Singularity) has the new "Premium Lite" client included. ===================================== It smells of spoon! ===================================== |
Doryd'oh
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Posted - 2009.02.22 19:39:00 -
[536]
Edited by: Doryd''oh on 22/02/2009 19:41:16 As others probably noticed this comment was stupidly wrong. Revisited Wow's lich king and it does break the previous version... so this appears to be the new norm and XP is on the way... d'oh
edit - btw win2k does technically work with wow but not correctly with missing textures and the likes, similar to my experiences on Singularity. Well, MS will be happy anyway.
Originally by: Doryd'oh I have never played any other game where an expansion makes the original unplayable on the same hardware. The latest WoW expansion for example requires Win XP, but the requirements for all previous content didn't change. But you know, Iceland is not the home of financial geniuses. Upgrading my stuff so I can play your new version will allow me to play a whole lot of other games too, that I have been wanting to try but was incompatible with my OS. You could just make it so the new requirements are only necessary if you go into wormhole space, and leave the rest of it alone.
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Johan Civire
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Posted - 2009.02.24 02:19:00 -
[537]
After i read all off your post. 1 thing stays behind. Force to update a graphics engine! There is alot off reason to dont upgrade. But if the dont upgrade it, some people stay others will left. And thats will also by happend if it was reverse. So the know about this problem. The will try to make it work in older laptops and pc. If you play world of wacraft you know that the have change the graphics engine to a higher norm. But sneaky, Without any warn. So lets hope the make a options before starting eve (like world of wacraft) to change the engine or graphics option so you can change it before the game crash when trying to change it. Some day i will hunt you! |
AK Archangel
Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.01 16:44:00 -
[538]
i dont know what about ccp think , but i just cancel alt account which work on my old laptop since he cant support shaiders...
Personaly i hate premium content , its useless overload for my video card (yes i have hi-end one but this ***** little bit noise and hot)i dont need effects, details and other graphics **** for pvp and specialy for pve. Walking on station... well if i can kill some people i'm up for future upgrade.
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Aurvundill
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.05 06:04:00 -
[539]
Edited by: Aurvundill on 05/03/2009 06:07:22 Those of you with laptop incompatibility it might be a good idea to try and find a copy of 3D-Analyze.
It has the ability to force shaders to 1.1 - 1.4 for older cards, along with tweaking rendering settings. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_3D_analyze
Quote: 3D Analyze is a software to emulate various 3D graphics such as shader 2.0 technology. Refer to the program website for further information or simply try your favorite search engine on the web. It has several options to emulate but is currently a very outdated software. Many find it useful in emulating grpahics that certain games require (when the user's graphics card simply doesnt support it). The website (mostly german from what i can tell) is http://www.tommti-systems.de/start.html
However I'm not sure about the compatibility of it with EVE.
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Elysarian
Minmatar dudetruck corp
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Posted - 2009.03.05 21:06:00 -
[540]
Originally by: Aurvundill Edited by: Aurvundill on 05/03/2009 06:07:22 Those of you with laptop incompatibility it might be a good idea to try and find a copy of 3D-Analyze.
It has the ability to force shaders to 1.1 - 1.4 for older cards, along with tweaking rendering settings. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_3D_analyze
Quote: 3D Analyze is a software to emulate various 3D graphics such as shader 2.0 technology. Refer to the program website for further information or simply try your favorite search engine on the web. It has several options to emulate but is currently a very outdated software. Many find it useful in emulating grpahics that certain games require (when the user's graphics card simply doesnt support it). The website (mostly german from what i can tell) is http://www.tommti-systems.de/start.html
However I'm not sure about the compatibility of it with EVE.
Emulating SM2.0 probably isn't going to work - or if it does you'll be playing "Eve-Powerpoint".
Emulate == "run the code on the CPU"
This means that the people with those SM 1.0 and 1.4 cards, who will have PC's of a similar age will not only be trying to game on an older, single-core processor but that same processor will be trying to do the work of several (dozens of?) dedicated stream processors that later gfx cards have in them. ===================================== It smells of spoon! ===================================== |
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Aurvundill
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.05 21:46:00 -
[541]
Edited by: Aurvundill on 05/03/2009 21:55:57
Originally by: Elysarian
Originally by: Aurvundill
Those of you with laptop incompatibility it might be a good idea to try and find a copy of 3D-Analyze.
It has the ability to force shaders to 1.1 - 1.4 for older cards, along with tweaking rendering settings. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_3D_analyze
Quote: 3D Analyze is a software to emulate various 3D graphics such as shader 2.0 technology. Refer to the program website for further information or simply try your favorite search engine on the web. It has several options to emulate but is currently a very outdated software. Many find it useful in emulating grpahics that certain games require (when the user's graphics card simply doesnt support it). The website (mostly german from what i can tell) is http://www.tommti-systems.de/start.html
However I'm not sure about the compatibility of it with EVE.
Emulating SM2.0 probably isn't going to work - or if it does you'll be playing "Eve-Powerpoint".
Emulate == "run the code on the CPU"
This means that the people with those SM 1.0 and 1.4 cards, who will have PC's of a similar age will not only be trying to game on an older, single-core processor but that same processor will be trying to do the work of several (dozens of?) dedicated stream processors that later gfx cards have in them.
This worked back when HL2 was released and helped out immensely.
Heck, I found a recent 2009 article on it: http://mediakey.dk/~cc/tag/3d-analyze/ http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=808085 - 3D-Analyze Steampowered HowTo
It may not seem like much just by looking at it, but it does work.
EDIT: You could also try the swiftshader thingy. :P
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IvanTheBastard
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Posted - 2009.03.08 16:03:00 -
[542]
1GB Ram... i'm going to be upgrading my old comp in a month or 2 to something decent, but in the meantime does this mean when Prem lite is launched my 768 meg will give me some kind of do not pass go message?
Old DDR RAM is expensive for what it is , could do not to have to buy it for the sake of a month.... i guess it is only about ú30 but i'd rather spend it on beer than on a comp i'm not going to use in a month or so.. if anyone knows please comment and i'll set Research Project management 5 training until i have the cash for my upgrade!! In the meantime the cats are on rations.
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Kalrasha Cryton
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 05:49:00 -
[543]
Ok yeah i have a question here
Ok I ran run everything maxed out on premium graphics, with little issues with my video card. Reason I am commenting is with the current premium graphics, what will happen when Apocr comes out will the graphics be much sharper, denser? cleaner? or what? will there be more space effects? like more dust? Will there be peaces of ship debres falling off your ship when ever you start to enter hull, armor ect. Will there be hybrid or projectile rounds floating in the space? I never got to try the Singularity patch because it seems that I have a incompatable build as of now, and I downloaded the full singularity test client after making a copy from my original. I always wanted to try this Premium ultra or what ever you guys gunna call the "T2" version of Premium graphics. But now I don't have a chance until the new expansion comes out. So far I thoraly enjoyed everything eve had to offer both the good, the bad and the sweet mama that's awsome part of eve I have high hopes of exploring in wormholes even if they close up on me. I will throughly enjoy pvp as well, from what I heard you can no longer do the whole "Rainbow" type of coloring when it comes to Lasers and missiles are the same.
Eve mail me in game if you want I'm always available.
Faithful Capsuleer
Kalrasha Cryton
BTW graphics input for me
Windows Vista Ultimate Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.20GHz 3.25 GB RAM NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GTX Computer Name: EVE for Life
The freedom to do what you want, how you want, and when you want is not given to you, it is earned through tears, blood, sweat, and freindship. Keep your friends close, and your enemy's that much cl |
xPewtridx
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Posted - 2009.03.09 06:25:00 -
[544]
I'll be able to run premium lite.. but if you make Premium a min requirement i wont be able to play eve... at all... and i honestly dont want to hear any "Its time to upgrade" B.S. Money is tight for a hell of alot of people right now... and upgrading my computer is the least of my worries... I honestly dont see the point in going that far with the min requirements.... I know for a fact that more then just me won't be able to play eve if you do that.. which effectively hurts your player base...Not to mention that i've given you people a lot of money over the years and now suddenly there is a chance that all my time, effort and money will completely go out the window just because i can't afford a new computer... i think its completely unfair....Please toss that idea in the trash...
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AK Archangel
Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.09 07:38:00 -
[545]
Global crisis ... ccp fired classic client developers/support team... well at least some people try to modifi eve client for lower videocards, so lets waiting...
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Stormwatch Galactic BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.03.09 11:34:00 -
[546]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 09/03/2009 11:39:18
Originally by: Tranka Verrane
We will however not pursue going to ShaderModel 3 as a minimum, at least for now. It's quite apparent that while an overwhelming majority has no problems with moving to ShaderModel 2, there are still quite a few (mostly laptop) users out there that cannot support ShaderModel 3 yet. We're going to continue monitoring hardware trends closely and will revise our plan on a regular basis."
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=617
Just confirming that my laptop can run SM2.0 but not 3. So CCP avoids cancellation of my alt account.. so far.
ps. I think it should be pointed out in apocrypha features page that new client may be needed to continue playing Eve...
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Justitia Leprechaun
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Posted - 2009.03.09 13:17:00 -
[547]
I am hoping to see FSAA (fullscreen anti-aliasing) working in EVE Online soon. The game looks awesome, but the jagged edges are completely ruining the overall feeling. Feels like a big let-down, really. My GF8800GTX can do 16x FSAA, so it's sad to have none of it working. :/
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Hewolf
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Posted - 2009.03.09 13:40:00 -
[548]
I use a laptop to play eve, how do I tell if I can still play it? the built in display driver is from a Mobile Intel (R) 965 Express Chipset Family.
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Souvuelle
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Posted - 2009.03.09 14:40:00 -
[549]
Edited by: Souvuelle on 09/03/2009 14:43:33
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Altridge McAltpherson
If you can't afford a new ú300 laptop then frankly you should have bigger concerns than computer games.
If 300 quid is nothing to you I accept paypal.
I do too, i agree not everyone can afford to upgrade their PC, personally i can just manage to ballance bills/eve subscription without having to fork out for a new PC too,
EDIT: Id also like to know if a Intel(r)82956G Express Chipset Family 1 is able to use SM2?
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124C
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Posted - 2009.03.09 15:28:00 -
[550]
EPIC FAIL CCP!
With each patch you cut out more and more existing players. I recently upgraded so I could run premium. I even got a premium supported card: It crashes when I undock, appears glitchy and compared to classic is a dog that won't dual client. Lite had better bloody well run. If you want to upgrade yourself into oblivion, feel free.
I'm eagerly awaiting Jumpgate beta. As I'm sure they might actually give a 2 hoots about retaining existing players. |
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Praetor Raynor
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Posted - 2009.03.09 18:55:00 -
[551]
i can support ShaderModel 3 but my fps will probably go to hell. Please CCP wait at least till summer or winter next year before you decide to change the gfx requirements again. I will have a new pc by then. Would be ever so greatful. :-)
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John plissken
Caldari Terminal Logic NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2009.03.09 19:19:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Doublewhopper
Originally by: John plissken Why do people buy crappy laptops & expect to be able to play games on them? the laptop is a working tool, invented for business people to be able to work whilst on the move. why waste your money on something that has awful sound quality, dodgy graphics, a screen the becomes unreadable when the tiniest amount of sunlight hits it? i have no sympathy for the people with older laptops who'll have to upgarde. if you wanted to play games with your pc you should have bought a real one. they're a hell of a lot cheaper & even the cheapest pc's out now support at least sm2. hell, couple of extra bucks & you've got one with sm4. imagine how long it'll be before eve gets to that stage, years!
Why do you post here if you have not read the arguments of other people?
I use 4 computers to accommodate all my accounts. Two of them are older laptops.
I do not care about lag. I do not care about great graphics. I do not care what you think a gamer is.
But this is the situation for many people:
They run alts on an alt-encouraging game, using the hardware that they have or have gotten cheaply. This means mostly laptops.
Now when the classic client goes away, i simply loose functionality. I do not expect to do PVP or lag-free missions or whatever high-end stuff on my 6 year old laptop.
I do however need it to haul afk across empire, use it to trade in the market and do some mining with it. All that is lost now. The laptop(s) did it just fine and nobody expected them to do more.
Now you need to get new hardware for those secondary tasks and that seems unreasonable.
This will result in alt-accounts cancelled and maybe also main-accounts due to loss of fun.
NOW FOR THE FLAMEBAIT:
People in here flame people for being to poor to upgrade laptops. And that they shouldntt use laptops and get a real computer and how cheap that is and so on...
Well i repeat that you don't get the point here. It rather seems that these people with their "big computers" are so poor that they can only afford one computer together with one account.
So they have actually no idea why we use those laptops in the first place.
I know what it means to be poor, hell, half of my pc is just recycled bits from my previous pc. but instead of forking out ú300 on a laptop with a single screen to play a second copy of eve on, i got myself a multi-core cpu & a gpu that could handle multiple monitors. i have two eve accounts, and the both run happily, at the same time on the same pc, so no need for a second pc eating up loads of electricity just to afk fly halfway across eve. baseline laptops with sm2 may cost ú300 now, but for that u could get yourself a mobo, dual core cpu & a gpu with sm4 & dual outputs. crt monitors are everywhere now, most people just have them hidden away at the back of a garage, unused. no one wants them anymore. i picked up a brilliant matching pair of 19" crt's at an office clearance for ú15 each. there is tons of unused old pc's out there, that no one uses or cares about anymore, that can be bought at clearances, car boot sales, etc. it's easy just to gut one, keep the parts like case, dvd drive & psu, buy a mobo for ú40, a cpu for ú80, 2gb of ram for ú20 & a gpu for ú70, scavange a HD from an old pc as well & find a friend who's got an old crt sat around that he's not using. and for about ú250 you've got a pc that can handle multiple eve clients & preatty much anything else u can throw at it, including most new games.
as for why you use a laptop, does your job require it? do you just enjoy playing eve while running around in circles? i cannot see a reason for owning a laptop beyond it being a tool for work. if u only use your pc for computing while at home, then get a desktop. so what if it's alot bigger, if your never taking it from your home, it doesn't matter.
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Doublewhopper
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:13:00 -
[553]
Originally by: John plissken
as for why you use a laptop, does your job require it? do you just enjoy playing eve while running around in circles? i cannot see a reason for owning a laptop beyond it being a tool for work. if u only use your pc for computing while at home, then get a desktop. so what if it's alot bigger, if your never taking it from your home, it doesn't matter.
My laptops running classic client at 35 fps consume 30 Watts and add to safe monthly power cost.
How much will you rig use? 300 Watts?
Also i need to accommodate more than 2 clients. So for your 300 Watt rig, that can run 2 clients, i could run 10 laptops.
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Minoru Kakahashi
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:35:00 -
[554]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_GMA_950#GMA_950
My three year old Dell laptop will be able to play Premium Lite. How well is anyone's guess, but going on this information, any intel-based laptop bought in the last three years or so should be able to run it, including the entire Eee netbook range.
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Caldari 5
Amarr The Element Syndicate Black Mesa Project
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Posted - 2009.03.09 22:59:00 -
[555]
Originally by: Andrue Good decision, CCP although perhaps more warning would have been nice.
I'll say, I just found out today a few hours before the patch that my laptop won't be able to play eve anymore :(
I don't normally troll through forums looking for this kind of thing, heck I rarely even read the forums, the only way I found out today was because I randomly decided to read what was happening in the patch at the login screen.
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Michael Drakus
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Posted - 2009.03.10 18:03:00 -
[556]
I started my eve client and it automatically downloaded the apocrypha patch and installed it. Now it cannot load past the splash screen, and tells me that my graphics card is not supported.
Thanks to the discontinued support for my graphics card, I can no longer play EVE at all. a week ago, I paid $20.00 for a month of gametime. I want my money back if there is no way to fix this issue. I refuse to pay for something I cannot access, so you can send the value of the remainder of my time paid for to the credit card I have on file immediately.
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.10 19:23:00 -
[557]
Quote: as for why you use a laptop, does your job require it? do you just enjoy playing eve while running around in circles? i cannot see a reason for owning a laptop beyond it being a tool for work. if u only use your pc for computing while at home, then get a desktop. so what if it's alot bigger, if your never taking it from your home, it doesn't matter.
I've seen this garbage so many times today it's making my eyes bleed! I keep reminding myself that I'm playing a Sci-fi game about spaceships and laser beams and many here still don't see how idiotic there anti laptop comments are going to sound in about 2 or 3 years.
I've only used a laptop for a year and 1/2 and I still can't see how anyone would be able to accept having a giant computer bolted to the floor in some dark corner of your house. I play eve on my patio while I'm smoking a cigarette and talking to the GF, turn it on when I'm in bed just to set skills or check my mail. I take the dammed thing with me when I go out of town.
I know many are of the old mindset that you have to have a desk top to play games but thatÆs straight out of 1999. Every day laptop performance gets closer to that of a desktop. ItÆs only a matter of time folks and itÆs not on a Sci-fi time scale here. This is happening now. I won't have a desktop anywhere but work as long as I live I swear it.
Desktops are evolving into business machines and high end graphics drivers. The number of people who are going to own a desktop just to play games is not going to be enough to support CCP. The total lack of imagination and foresight in a community of people playing a Science fiction game is mind blowing.
CCP is not trying to eliminate laptop players in fact they have made adjustments just to include laptop players because they know thatÆs the future and if games don't evolve graphically at super speed for the next several years because of it thatÆs just the way it is. Running in circles... humph!
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byron yuu
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Posted - 2009.03.10 20:06:00 -
[558]
well i guess its a good deal to upgrade but i dont have a compatable card today...... i set a 2 day skill knowing that patch's can be longer than expected but it may take me a week to fing a good agp slot 3d card as upgradeing my comp wasnt what i expected to need to do. is there a way to change my skills without logging in to game so i dont loss valuable time on skills that is already payed for? i can let the game sit as long as i know the skills keep going up!!! if i had know there was going to be a need to upgrade my comp before hand i'd have set a bs skill to lvl 5 (always good to fly all the cap ships). if there is any way i could get some help with that (and no i wont give my logon name and password away) please let me know if not ill probly loss a week maybe 2 of training and i'll be disapointed with that... PLEASE help byron
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byron yuu
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Posted - 2009.03.10 20:38:00 -
[559]
well looks like at least the patch was done early enough for me to order a new card online. $96 for a 512 that fits a agp slot and has up to shader model 3 isnt a bad deal and will put me ahead of the next patch if you dont lose half your clientel from the lack of upgrade... not sure if its alowable but try tigerdirect.com for old comp stuff they seem to have a lot for the old junk comp user hehe. will only lose 3 days and haveing to upgrade to play sucks but i cant not play, but i would like to get credit for my skill downtime but i know eve is gona be loseing a ton of money when the people unwilling to upgrade drop the game. hope to see you all online again soon Byron
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Ripley Sanders
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Posted - 2009.03.10 21:18:00 -
[560]
Now it looks like you will loose ppl, No wounder Blizard's World of Warcraft is still in the Lead, They Hold on the Requierments, Not Changing there And they keep their aprox 9 mil Players in just Europe.
I love EVE, But now you lost one more player,
And you will loose Many more, UNLESS You get the old Standard Options back on Requierment! AND keeping Low Preformance Options Will Keep more players, And have HIGH Preformance as an OPTION!
Everybody Dont have the money to buy the Latest Stuff eighter
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Reelism
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Posted - 2009.03.10 22:09:00 -
[561]
good bye eve online it was a fun
FYI u probly lost alot of old old characters that are directors and CEOS. Maybe even alliance leaders......
Oh well make way for the new people to sign up for eve online...... what wait?? i thought eve was about longevity, and to keep there current customers while building on newer ones.
But i guess its about time CCP started acting like every other corporation on this planet. Brush off the guys who dont pay as much to make way for the guys who will pay more. FYI i dont pay for eve my isk does and i imagine alot of players who have been playing for a long time on the same computer do too.
The GTC switch didn't force people to pay cash so they have decided to cater to only new computers forcing out the old and in with the new who are able and willing to pay cash money for eve online. -- Like the storm that's in the making, When the rumbling thunder runs, And the hills and valleys tremble. |
Admiral Lexx
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Posted - 2009.03.10 23:16:00 -
[562]
Edited by: Admiral Lexx on 10/03/2009 23:21:55 Nice job ccp. By forcing me to "upgrade" to premium lite from classic (which I liked just fine) my fps has dropped to 9. This is with an Nvidia series 5 (FX5500) which I thought was supposed to run fine after patch. I have all the settings on minimum just to get the 9 fsp so, of course, the graphics look like crap. Slow and crappy.... good job!
I've been playing since 2005 but I guess not anymore. Apparently no agp cards can run the game anymore, so I'd need a motherboard upgrade as well.
I'd remain a paying customer if you retained the classic option. I've never paid for gametime with isk, though I have several billion and could. I've always paid with cold hard cash.
No, you can't have my stuff.
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Tye Renolds
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Posted - 2009.03.11 00:14:00 -
[563]
wtf is wrong with ccp no warning at all about this crap. Thanks for taking the 3 month subscription fee out before you made sure i was screwed.
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John plissken
Caldari Terminal Logic NIght's Dawn
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Posted - 2009.03.11 01:02:00 -
[564]
we accept having a "giant pc bolted to the floor" because the latest games always require the latest technology. this means high power consuption & high heat output. these are things laptops cannot handle. hopefully with the grace of finer manufacturing techniques, manufacturers will be able to get pc products down to more acceptable levels, maybe even be able to bring out mobile chipsets that can rival the newest desktop ones, but it's a long time off, and regardless of how small a manufacturing process, heat will still be an issue. there are other factors that make a difference as well. i enjoy having a soundcard that can play music well & create surround sound for immersive in-game experience. i doubt playing eve in bed on a small screened laptop with awful tinny little speakers would match that experience. and the dreadful little laptop touchpads don't lend themselves to gaming very well, having to scroll across a pad several times just to get to the other side of the screen is irritating, not something i would want to pvp with.
anyway, i'm fed up of this argument now, i know i won't persuade the laptop die-hards, and the people who invested in desktops probably don't give a sh*t as most of them won't be reading this forum, due to not needing to upgrade. i'll just leave with the thought that instead of spending ú300 on that laptop (which now can't run eve) just so you could walk around with it; take it to your friends; show it off & look flash, you could have spent ú300 on a huge bulk of a pc hidden away in some dark room corner which would still be able to run eve.
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Caildir CorWe
Minmatar Intergalactic Commerce Union
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Posted - 2009.03.11 01:46:00 -
[565]
Originally by: Ma'kal Edited by: Ma''kal on 19/01/2009 18:18:04 I was just wondering if the premium graphics client would require ShaderModel 3? If it did it would be awesome because who doesn't like shiny
Well unfortuneatly it is not about whether or not you like shiny, it's whether you can afford shiny, I am one who can afford shiny, I just don't use it all the time.
__________________________________ Rule 1: 87.3% of all nerf calls should be deleted, and the OP Smacked. Rule 2: For the other 2.7% See Rule 1. |
eldeago
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Posted - 2009.03.11 02:29:00 -
[566]
Intel(R) 82915G/GV/910GL Express Chipset Family Shader model 1.1 : yes Shader model 1.2 : yes Shader model 1.3 : yes Shader model 1.4 : yes Shader model 2.0 : yes Shader model 2 A : no Shader model 2 B : no Shader model 2 (software): no Shader model 3.0 : no
And it says I still can't play EVE because of my graphics card. So I have 2 1/2 months of subscription left to a game I can no longer play? Is there going to be a refund if this turns out the case. thanks.
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Michael Drakus
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Posted - 2009.03.11 02:42:00 -
[567]
Originally by: eldeago Intel(R) 82915G/GV/910GL Express Chipset Family Shader model 1.1 : yes Shader model 1.2 : yes Shader model 1.3 : yes Shader model 1.4 : yes Shader model 2.0 : yes Shader model 2 A : no Shader model 2 B : no Shader model 2 (software): no Shader model 3.0 : no
And it says I still can't play EVE because of my graphics card. So I have 2 1/2 months of subscription left to a game I can no longer play? Is there going to be a refund if this turns out the case. thanks.
I've been asking the same thing all day. I think they have a legal requirement in this case to deliver a refund since it was their decision to stop supporting certain graphics cards. It would have made more sense for them to keep the 'classic' client and simply add the new graphics capabilities as optional, thus not forcing a lot of paying customers to no longer be able to access the game. A lot of people are in the same situation, and ccp is still completely mum on the issue. They seem to be ignoring the situation altogether.
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Mortis Diem
Hell's Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.03.11 02:57:00 -
[568]
" we accept having a "giant pc bolted to the floor" because the latest games always require the latest technology. this means high power consuption & high heat output. these are things laptops cannot handle. hopefully with the grace of finer manufacturing techniques, manufacturers will be able to get pc products down to more acceptable levels, maybe even be able to bring out mobile chipsets that can rival the newest desktop ones, but it's a long time off, and regardless of how small a manufacturing process, heat will still be an issue. there are other factors that make a difference as well. i enjoy having a soundcard that can play music well & create surround sound for immersive in-game experience. i doubt playing eve in bed on a small screened laptop with awful tinny little speakers would match that experience. and the dreadful little laptop touchpads don't lend themselves to gaming very well, having to scroll across a pad several times just to get to the other side of the screen is irritating, not something i would want to pvp with.
anyway, i'm fed up of this argument now, i know i won't persuade the laptop die-hards, and the people who invested in desktops probably don't give a sh*t as most of them won't be reading this forum, due to not needing to upgrade. i'll just leave with the thought that instead of spending ú300 on that laptop (which now can't run eve) just so you could walk around with it; take it to your friends; show it off & look flash, you could have spent ú300 on a huge bulk of a pc hidden away in some dark room corner which would still be able to run eve. "
If you would be so kind as to tell me where in my 18wheeler I can bolt said desktop I would gladly do so. Also please show me where in my truck I can plug it in. I spend weeks at a time on the road. A laptop is the only option for me. And though you may not believe it the truck driving community has a high percentage of gamers. Go into any truck stop and you will see us plugged in playing Eve, WoW, DAOC and other games. That said if my current laptop doesnt run the new release I am sure one of the many cash rich players who so easily speak of buying a new system in this down economy will loan me the funds.
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Hiedowski
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Posted - 2009.03.11 03:53:00 -
[569]
Here's a idea why not just upgrade the premium and leaves us vagrants, students and poorly paid low lifes, Who HAVE JUST AS MUCH RIGHT TO PLAY as the well off to play with classic???
Problem solved.
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Doryd'oh
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Posted - 2009.03.11 04:30:00 -
[570]
Dunno if anyone mentioned it yet, but Linux is no option anymore since they dropped support for it too. Not that it would help with the shader problem, but it would have helped with the XP requirement.
Some people say there is no compatible AGP cards, is that true? I can't believe it is, hope not anyway.
And another zinger for the low performance crowd, apparently some graphics don't show up at all in the Lite version, like the edge of the bubble... or so i read, along with all the patching horror stories. I'll get to try soon!
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Meandar
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.03.11 05:27:00 -
[571]
Well I'm off game for a bit... my G force 2 card won't support it and I won't be able to replace it soon. Hopefully I can contact someone to keep my skills going. Anywho... I have to wonder if updating my graphics card is possible?
I run a Pentium 4 2.4mghz and 1024 Ram and all that rut...
Sure would feel a bit snippy if I go buy a card and can't play EVE. So what kinda card can my computer support and where do I get it. Googling away to day! Your Friendly Wondering Space Warfare kinda Guy,
Meandar |
Dave PSI
Haendlergilde Gilde Alliance
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Posted - 2009.03.11 12:09:00 -
[572]
Edited by: Dave PSI on 11/03/2009 12:15:28 Edited by: Dave PSI on 11/03/2009 12:13:47 Where can i download the lite version of the client? I only found the premium client (http://www.eveonline.com/download/).
I understand the reason to upgrade the the Graphik (and i support it, new players are necessary), but the graphik change was useless for me personally. I liked the classic client and really miss it. Instead of only supporting the graphik freaks, how about supporting the ones interested in better performance?
I would prefer an option to disable all textures and graphic effects, and play only with gridmodels. Not only to run more clients, also in large combat i only use the overview options and with 500+ people on grid and scrolled in, not only the server will lag.
And yes, i have 2 new pcs, enough money to upgrade, but i still could run more classic clients before, than premium clients now.
Btw. at least for me the patching system / downloading the 1.9GB client doesn't work probably. When you force us to upgrade, plz support acceptable download capabilities (not 80kb/s aka downloading a year, plus connection issues and to start it again). Without the torrent download i would still sitting in front of my old calssic client, unable to upgrade. update: i started to upgrade my second pc today, and download seems to be under 1h, so it's better now.
T R U S T shop: http://www.evetrust.com // Haendlergilde [HAE]
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Vera Trash
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Posted - 2009.03.11 12:10:00 -
[573]
great!! good move. nice to know that we poor dont count. we were 'holdin ya back,' huh? i feel kinda dumped on!
ccp seriously cant afford to run a separate server with less graphic content? seems like youre makin enough to not care how many accounts you lose.
the game is... was fun. you really think it has to rely on 'purdy pix' to survive? thats silly. i mean, youll never top gallaga no matter what ya look like. graphics dont go THAT far. i still play my 2600 and have a good time.
but you are at least gunna refund this month since i cant play now, right? ill use it to buy a graphics card just for you, even though everything else works just fine with the one ive got. or if youre gunna keep my money, and im stuck paying for a character that i cant play, can i at least have out-of-game access to change skills? or do i not even count THAT much?
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byron yuu
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Posted - 2009.03.11 12:45:00 -
[574]
AGP cards should work but i belive only the 512 and up card have shade 3.0 . i myself have to buy a new 1 and scrap my 256 so i hope it will work. there are websites out there that sell older stuff for agp slots and they seem resonable. im paying $96 for a geforce 512 card but have to wait till fri or even mon. and that sucks but im gona try to get the game back up. if this fails though im done with eve also as a new comp is out of the question at my curent finance lvl, i'd be better off buying a x-boxx or wii than buy a beter comp when it works well for everything i use it for but the newest of games and now this. maybe eve should consider makeing it playable on x-box or wii then they would have a new base of kids to play and get payed from. plus i bet a lot of old comp users have the new game machines anyways it may save there company from the lose they are gona be takeing soon if not already. i hear iceland is haveing money problems like the rest of the world to, hope they can aford to keep all there employees on after this big upgrade they made HEHE. cheers
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Stalfo5
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Posted - 2009.03.11 13:29:00 -
[575]
It's a shame that Eve will be losing so many players due to this 'upgrade'
I will miss being able to play on my old laptop and I would actually have to buy a new graphics card on my desktop to be able to play properly.
I regret buying a three month subscription.
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Sara Mise
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Posted - 2009.03.11 13:49:00 -
[576]
Originally by: Dave PSI Edited by: Dave PSI on 11/03/2009 12:20:51 Where can i download the lite version of the client? I only found the premium client (http://www.eveonline.com/download/).
I have the same question/issue. My download worked and it is running fine. And the new textures do actually look wonderful and not getting any lag on the laptop soloing. But...like dave said...if I get into a big fleet battle, I was wondering how I can switch to lite.
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Maria Kalista
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Posted - 2009.03.11 13:58:00 -
[577]
Originally by: Sara Mise
Originally by: Dave PSI
Where can i download the lite version of the client? I only found the premium client.
I have the same question/issue. My download worked and it is running fine. And the new textures do actually look wonderful and not getting any lag on the laptop soloing. But...like dave said...if I get into a big fleet battle, I was wondering how I can switch to lite.
The 'lite' client is the same client as the Premium client you can download. Only with all settings set to 'low' and or 'off'.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
I really need to stop watching commercials...
Wrangler
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Vaspian
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Posted - 2009.03.11 14:00:00 -
[578]
are we being refunded for the rest of the month that we have paied for but can not play because of this?
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Taius Pax
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Posted - 2009.03.11 14:56:00 -
[579]
Edited by: Taius Pax on 11/03/2009 14:59:30
Originally by: Vaspian are we being refunded for the rest of the month that we have paied for but can not play because of this?
I figure you know the answer but, per the EULA:
All subscription fees are in U.S. Dollars or Euros and are non-refundable unless expressly stated otherwise in the EULA.
---
CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.
While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.
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Surana Rens
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Posted - 2009.03.11 15:13:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Maria Kalista
Originally by: Sara Mise
Originally by: Dave PSI
Where can i download the lite version of the client? I only found the premium client.
I have the same question/issue. My download worked and it is running fine. And the new textures do actually look wonderful and not getting any lag on the laptop soloing. But...like dave said...if I get into a big fleet battle, I was wondering how I can switch to lite.
The 'lite' client is the same client as the Premium client you can download. Only with all settings set to 'low' and or 'off'.
Cool thanks Maria.
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Masratar
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Posted - 2009.03.11 15:19:00 -
[581]
Next time there's a major update due that will make some hardware obsolete, it would be a great idea to say so on the main system requirements section. This will make sure prospective new players are fully aware as to whether their system is adequate or not.
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Michael Drakus
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Posted - 2009.03.11 16:06:00 -
[582]
Originally by: Taius Pax Edited by: Taius Pax on 11/03/2009 14:59:30
Originally by: Vaspian are we being refunded for the rest of the month that we have paied for but can not play because of this?
I figure you know the answer but, per the EULA:
All subscription fees are in U.S. Dollars or Euros and are non-refundable unless expressly stated otherwise in the EULA.
---
CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.
While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.
The US courts have a different view on this, and other companies have gotten into serious trouble for it as well. Regardless of the EULA, it falls under the category of 'Support Scam'. Why? because for one thing, the account purchase system does not run a hardware check to ensure that your system meets current or upcoming requirements, and the installation software doesn't check until after installation is finished. While the decision to end support for shader 1 and lower cards was posted in several areas of the site, it was not posted in a visible location anywhere during the account purchase process. and people who have never heard of Shader or hardware transform and lighting might not even realize it applies to them. So yes. regardless of the EULA, there is still legal responsibility, especially for those users whose machines met the system requirements AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE but now no longer do.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.11 16:09:00 -
[583]
Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2009 16:11:54 It's annoying to see how you are making progress on the graphics front of the game, CCP. Why don't you first add full anti-aliasing support before you force others to upgrade their hardware?
I have got a Nvidia GTX260 and would not have any problems going with ShaderModel 4 and DX10. What I really want is the pixel flickering to go away, and the lack of AA and a cleaner texture filtering lets you look like noobs. -- You cannot win? It's called losing. |
Proteus Maximus
Caldari Mine 'N' Refine New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.03.11 16:10:00 -
[584]
Ya know even Microsoft left us windows Xp to run when they imposed windows Vista on us. My game play has been severly affected by this patch rendering 2 accounts prety usless now. I'm lucky we just bought my wife a new laptop for collage or I'd have no acess what so ever. Now instaid of mining during the day during work and flying with friends in the evening I'm stuck arguing with my wife over computer time. Money for new computers with her out of work is out of the question entirley. Are resources so drained you can't support classic for 35 to 40% of us? I think not. Thanks for completely ruining the gaming experince for me CCP I'm way greatfull. Max Yes I'm a newb. No I'm not stupid. |
Masratar
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Posted - 2009.03.11 16:18:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Michael Drakus
Originally by: Taius Pax Edited by: Taius Pax on 11/03/2009 14:59:30
Originally by: Vaspian are we being refunded for the rest of the month that we have paied for but can not play because of this?
I figure you know the answer but, per the EULA:
All subscription fees are in U.S. Dollars or Euros and are non-refundable unless expressly stated otherwise in the EULA.
---
CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.
While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.
The US courts have a different view on this, and other companies have gotten into serious trouble for it as well. Regardless of the EULA, it falls under the category of 'Support Scam'. Why? because for one thing, the account purchase system does not run a hardware check to ensure that your system meets current or upcoming requirements, and the installation software doesn't check until after installation is finished. While the decision to end support for shader 1 and lower cards was posted in several areas of the site, it was not posted in a visible location anywhere during the account purchase process. and people who have never heard of Shader or hardware transform and lighting might not even realize it applies to them. So yes. regardless of the EULA, there is still legal responsibility, especially for those users whose machines met the system requirements AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE but now no longer do.
Having only played for a few weeks, this is exactly the situation for me.
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Proteus Maximus
Caldari Mine 'N' Refine New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.03.11 17:20:00 -
[586]
It applys to me also. I prepaid 2 of my accounts for 6 months while one expiers in a couple weeks 4 months remain on the other. At no time do I remember being prompted and informed my machines would n0t be supported in a few months. I never received an email for that matter. How many newer pilots even know to use the forums.. from what i've seen in game not many I'm guessing. Yes I'm a newb. No I'm not stupid. |
Masratar
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Posted - 2009.03.11 17:54:00 -
[587]
Edited by: Masratar on 11/03/2009 17:54:39 I'm pleased to say CCP have agreed to refund my remaining game time. Presumably this is due to my newness to the game, which as has been mentioned makes it unreasonable to expect that I was to know of the implications of this upcoming update. This has restored my confidence in the makers of Eve and I look forward to returning to the game as soon as I have sufficient hardware.
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ThraxOmega
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Posted - 2009.03.11 18:06:00 -
[588]
Edited by: ThraxOmega on 11/03/2009 18:07:25 I'm glad CCP has made good by you. It's a very solid move on their part to resolve your situation & I commend them. Being invested in the game for almost a year now I feel that the people in my situation will have to eat this one. Proteus Maximus...posted under my alt by mistake.
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Keleth AlThul
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Posted - 2009.03.11 18:16:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Masratar Edited by: Masratar on 11/03/2009 17:54:39 I'm pleased to say CCP have agreed to refund my remaining game time. Presumably this is due to my newness to the game, which as has been mentioned makes it unreasonable to expect that I was to know of the implications of this upcoming update. This has restored my confidence in the makers of Eve and I look forward to returning to the game as soon as I have sufficient hardware.
how do you go about doing this is it in petitions of through a thread on the forum i had paid the startup and first months fee and was able to play for three days before the upped the minimum reqs so how can i get mine back
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Michael Drakus
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Posted - 2009.03.11 19:42:00 -
[590]
Originally by: Masratar Edited by: Masratar on 11/03/2009 17:54:39 I'm pleased to say CCP have agreed to refund my remaining game time. Presumably this is due to my newness to the game, which as has been mentioned makes it unreasonable to expect that I was to know of the implications of this upcoming update. This has restored my confidence in the makers of Eve and I look forward to returning to the game as soon as I have sufficient hardware.
I am glad to hear that. I was starting to wonder if they were going to address this situation at all, but it appears that they are. I got an email in response to my petition, and gave them the required information, but I haven't heard back as of yet. I am very glad that they are taking responsibility for this - it does a lot to improve their image in the eyes of the customer. If/when I get my money refunded, I will probably consider playing again when I have a system capable of handling the new (and planned) requirements.
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grjot
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Posted - 2009.03.11 19:51:00 -
[591]
Dear CCP.
After being your customer for years I am sorry to say that after 6 hours of downloading and installing the new patch I have found out that I can not play the game due to the fact that my hardware does not support shader model 2.
It was fun while it lasted and I want to thank you for saving me $180 per year.
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.11 20:02:00 -
[592]
I've found that a lot more laptops are excluded from playing EVE than was reported earlier in this thread. Some of these machines were purchased in the last year and are not all the extreme low end that most of the desk toppers claim they are.
Many recent laptops with integrated video chips including as recent as intel GM945 chipset family. I understand that these laptops were not put together with gaming in mind but the systems using the integrated video cards were not always low end and were produced in massive quantities. These Systems ran classic well enough that the average new player would never notice slow performance until getting into group battles.
I purchased my laptop in July of 2007 for around $1,100. I didn't really have gaming in mind at the time. The system is not low end in any way except the crappy integrated graphics card. (Windows Vista, Intel core Duo processor, 2GB RAM, big hard drive etc) Specs looked much better than most that I looked at. If I would have known what to look for, in hindsight I would have gotten one with a separate video card but *Shrug*
So now you have more than a tiny few players "as most of you put it" Who can't play EVE. Many of them didn't even suspect they had a problem since their systems were fairly new and may have cost them over a thousand dollars, not the few hundred some keep saying.
I know... Laptop's aren't for gaming right? Well, since a home desktops' only practicle use is to play games, I guess EVE will help keep desktops a viable consumer product for a while longer anyway.
Seriously, a normal person (someone with a life) isn't going to justify spending at least $1,000.00 for a halfway decent desktop just to play a game when they've got a much more practical machine that does everything but already. It's difficult enough to find the time to play EVE without locking myself in the spare bedroom for 4 hours.
Is it so difficult for people to understand that there are people who like to play EVE who may not take it quite as seriously as they do? People who don't care if the Graphics are the super uberest ever! To me, it's the die hard 30+ year old gamer who wants that desktop just so they can play a video game who's not understanding how the world works.
And CCP gets a fail grade on this. What should you expect from a company full of Computer geeks? That kind of person is always going to think everyone will want to spend thousands of dollars on a super terrific, huge, unmovable game playing machine. Duh!
/Rant
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Innara Tal
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Posted - 2009.03.11 21:08:00 -
[593]
For those of you leaving, feel free to send me your ISK and stuff. Name is "Innara Tal". :)
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Hornychef
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Posted - 2009.03.11 21:15:00 -
[594]
Hello CCP,
Ummm....could you make a definitive statement on the Premium Lite client?
I've trawled through a lot of forums and seen (many) comments from players that Premium Lite == Premium with everything turned down.
Just curious as I can no longer play on my Acer Aspire One with the Premium client even though the Intel 945GM supports shader 2.
Any reply as to support for a low end Premium Lite client would be much appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Chef
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.11 21:47:00 -
[595]
Originally by: Hornychef Hello CCP,
Ummm....could you make a definitive statement on the Premium Lite client?
I've trawled through a lot of forums and seen (many) comments from players that Premium Lite == Premium with everything turned down.
Just curious as I can no longer play on my Acer Aspire One with the Premium client even though the Intel 945GM supports shader 2.
Any reply as to support for a low end Premium Lite client would be much appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Chef
I'm not 100% certain but I think we are out of luck. I checked before the update and thought I was safe because intel says 945GM chipset supports shader 2.
There is something I don't quite understand about those cards needing some kind of software boost to acheive shader 2 and EVE now lists all intel GM express chipsets below 965 as unsupported on the update page.
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ZONAC
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Posted - 2009.03.11 21:49:00 -
[596]
wow.. it has finally come. the day that my gaming is to be suspended not do to my inability to pay nor my dislike of the game that i have been playing for the last 2 1/2 years. but due to the fact that my laptop is shader compatible but my card is not to CCP's liking.. so while i wait to gain the cash to repair my gaming system that forced me into the laptop, i have to decide to ether suspend my character and save the money and loose the skill time or skill and keep paying the ransom and wait for the money for the pc parts.. but i ask a question?.. I am not in a poor on the street position or living with no resources but my cash is on a as needed basis and ranked on whats important and what is not.. i started playing eve due to my dislike of watching television .. what about the players that are in a position that they are too strapped to upgrade?.. you have just removed those players from a game.. your game.. our game.. there game? why? are we at the point that all players are not in reality equal?.. those who can be better in real life. the game, our game, your game, there game, will only support those? yes the cooperate ugliness is starting to show it self.
I will make my decision on what i will do but CCP you need to look at yourselves again, and ask your selves. is this game full of players our your own select friends?.. and where is this game really going? because the feel of the game that first attracted me when i started play had a attractive CCP influence and has morphed! and I feel the cooperates direction is moving in a nasty direction. its now your game.. and we cannot call it a community because we just left some of our members in the cold.
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.11 22:31:00 -
[597]
Edited by: Tadesae on 11/03/2009 22:33:16
Originally by: ZONAC wow.. it has finally come. the day that my gaming is to be suspended not do to my inability to pay nor my dislike of the game that i have been playing for the last 2 1/2 years. but due to the fact that my laptop is shader compatible but my card is not to CCP's liking.. so while i wait to gain the cash to repair my gaming system that forced me into the laptop, i have to decide to ether suspend my character and save the money and loose the skill time or skill and keep paying the ransom and wait for the money for the pc parts.. but i ask a question?.. I am not in a poor on the street position or living with no resources but my cash is on a as needed basis and ranked on whats important and what is not.. i started playing eve due to my dislike of watching television .. what about the players that are in a position that they are too strapped to upgrade?.. you have just removed those players from a game.. your game.. our game.. there game? why? are we at the point that all players are not in reality equal?.. those who can be better in real life. the game, our game, your game, there game, will only support those? yes the cooperate ugliness is starting to show it self.
I will make my decision on what i will do but CCP you need to look at yourselves again, and ask your selves. is this game full of players our your own select friends?.. and where is this game really going? because the feel of the game that first attracted me when i started play had a attractive CCP influence and has morphed! and I feel the cooperates direction is moving in a nasty direction. its now your game.. and we cannot call it a community because we just left some of our members in the cold.
I think this has more to do with a failure to recognise changes in the way people use computers by the gaming industry as a whole. As long as you can play a game on a laptop, developers are going to see that people find the games and play them. When you remove the ability for the average person to find a game because the platform most people have can't run it you loose a lot of business.
I don't think treating laptop players who find the game like second class citizens is a very good business model. It's not that I can't play anymore, it's that the only response you get is; "you can't do that on a laptop" It's irritating because you can do that on a laptop. For a while anyway.
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Sir Ibex
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Posted - 2009.03.12 00:33:00 -
[598]
Edited by: Sir Ibex on 12/03/2009 00:33:33
Originally by: Innara Tal For those of you leaving, feel free to send me your ISK and stuff. Name is "Innara Tal". :)
uck you. It's not even funny.
Thank you CCP for completely ignoring a large part of your customer base and removing the classic client. *sarcasm*
I guess some people's $15 a month is not as good as others $15... Seriously.. WTF?!
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Shanghilo
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Posted - 2009.03.12 01:07:00 -
[599]
Well,, I'm just another customer that cant play it seems,
I loaded up the New version,, got in to where I was before, accepted a mission,and clicked on Ships to reopen my group window and my screen turned white.
Really awesome graphics,, Very cool but now I cant play along with a large group of other folks that used the Classic version to enjoy the EVE product.
In the last 6 months alot of upgrades but none that a REGULAR computer user would not need to be conscerned with.
WE ARE ALL HAVING difficult economic times,, TO FORCE the user base to UPGRADE HARDWARE or Switch from a Laptop to a SUPER LAPTOP or move back into a Desktop PC to manage game/entertainment requirements when Countries and Users are going bankrupt is STUPID.
I Hope this can be resolved before the Number one product of Iceland loses market share and does not make its goals because of a poor management decision to eliminate the player base by a manditory upgrade of video requirements.
I run a Dell Lattitude 610 with an ATI chipset.. Eve Almost Runs,, it did until I opened up the Ship Group,, I reloaded it and now Get a White screen anytime after I enter Eve after My Toon is displayed,, Ive done all I can do to Optimize the settings for DOG mode but the NEW client will not funtion since I clicked on SHIPs.
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Vera Trash
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Posted - 2009.03.12 01:08:00 -
[600]
well, ccp is apparently ignoring us as well.. do you see any responses to the forum lately? guess theyre payin their employees to ignore us with our own money.
what a scam!
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Vera Trash
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Posted - 2009.03.12 01:39:00 -
[601]
actually, im i little madder than i realized about being flat-out ignored...
i have myspace, facebook, angelfire, and a couple other blogging accounts. im gunna make a blog on everyone in protest and boycott until i get some sort of closure, or... satisfaction, or...SOMETHING!!
i think we ALL should! and be sure to include all the good search-words (like game, download, new, play, trial...) we could make it so anyone interested in trying eve will be BOMBARDED with hundreds (kinda looks like thousands, tho) of blogs warning them that this game is run by a corporation that will not pay them the consideration worth their money! but dont post anything fraudulent, just tell the truth.
anyone whod like should feel free to email [email protected].
be sure to include that others in the same situation should do the same.
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Shanghilo
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Posted - 2009.03.12 01:44:00 -
[602]
Yep, whats worse is the only way to task switch out of the white screen of death is to reset your power switch, No ALt Tab, no Task Manager, your locked down.
Anyway,,I really enjoyed eve when it worked for the Average User.
LOL I actually removed Autocad and Visio just to get enough room for the HUGE 2 gig download and the additional 4.6 Gigs of space needed for the installation.
I get it running then it all crashes to a White screen,, NICE JOB!
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ZONAC
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Posted - 2009.03.12 01:45:00 -
[603]
Originally by: Vera Trash actually, im i little madder than i realized about being flat-out ignored...
i have myspace, facebook, angelfire, and a couple other blogging accounts. im gunna make a blog on everyone in protest and boycott until i get some sort of closure, or... satisfaction, or...SOMETHING!!
i think we ALL should! and be sure to include all the good search-words (like game, download, new, play, trial...) we could make it so anyone interested in trying eve will be BOMBARDED with hundreds (kinda looks like thousands, tho) of blogs warning them that this game is run by a corporation that will not pay them the consideration worth their money! but dont post anything fraudulent, just tell the truth.
anyone whod like should feel free to email [email protected].
be sure to include that others in the same situation should do the same.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Yes We have to look at it this way , We have been put in the basement and the entrance has been bricked and the party has started upstairs... we have been podded...lol
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F90OEX
F9X
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Posted - 2009.03.12 01:50:00 -
[604]
I need to buy a Netbook for on the road.
One I am thinking of getting is the HP Mini 1010NR with a Graphics Media Accelerator 950.
It supports Pixel Shader 2.0.
Questions are, what would be the Eve "shelf" life, 12-24months ?
And are there any Netbooks out there that have a better graphics chip with pixel shader 3.0
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.12 02:14:00 -
[605]
Edited by: Tadesae on 12/03/2009 02:15:22 Well I wouldn't get anything with an integrated graphics card. They are pretty much all garbage and I should know since I have one. lol You need to research it because there are a whole lot of chipsets whose stats say they support shader 2 and either don't or don't do it well enough to play EVE anymore. Keep in mind you can't upgrade video cards on a laptop so In the future I will look for a laptop with a good independent video card before I even look at the other stats.
I wouldn't expect to get more than six-eight months out of anything that only supports shader 2. CCP has already said they may upgrade to Shader 3 in the winter patch
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Andro Stormcloud
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Posted - 2009.03.12 02:39:00 -
[606]
well going to shader 2 has totally screwed me for playing the game. with the economy what it is i can't afford to get a new card so thanks much for screwing those of us who enjoyed the classic so we could play.You should of kept it the same so those of us without shader 2 could stay. Thanks for the discrimnation.
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Bifordus Maximus
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Posted - 2009.03.12 06:45:00 -
[607]
I have been playing the game for the past 3 years now all of a sudden I need to upgrade my graphics card? Thats total BS. There should still be support shader 1. Not everyone can afford a new graphics card at the moment. There should at least be an option though the website where you can at least change what skills you are learning otherwise my character is just sitting there waiting for me make enough money to upgrade.
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Proteus Maximus
Caldari Mine 'N' Refine New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.03.12 11:55:00 -
[608]
Attention CCP The exclusion of affordable mobile computing has caused issues I haddent even considered untill last night. Bare with me here... How many of you have to fight for game time @ home? We adults have lives & familys. As we all know to truly enjoy the eve experince you need to put in quite a bit of game time. More so if you use your isk earnings to pay for the subs..and with things the way things have been for alot of pilots thats become a must. My solution was simple. Working in an office taking my laptop to work and taking care of eve's business end solved all of the problems. Which had almost put me out of the game months ago. It freed up time after work for the things in life that matter most. After the kids are in bed & the wife settels in on her computer to relax I was able to log back in and do all of the fun stuff eve has to offer. Free of my corp, mining or isk making obligations. Cut to the present... now being cut off during the day has imedently caused me huge problems. The last two nights I have been trying to catch up. Finaly last night (& I knew this was coming) I got the dreaded line from my wife, which sent me to mining at work to begin with. "I see your back to sitting in front of your little game again all night". Of course an argument insued in which I tryed to explain I'm just trying to catch up and its not a permenent thing. The truth is... to maintain the level of play ive grown acustom to and enjoy I would have to be logged in for 3 to 4 hours a night 5 to 6 nights a week. Not happening..... There is no choice to be made here honestly. After 2.5 hours of comuting and 8 hours of work there is little time left in the day to do what matters most... Let alone enjoy the hobby I have grown to love over the last year. As I have stated in previous posts money for a new laptop is completely out of the question. I'm forced to spend long hours away from home and family in order to provide for them. The exclusion of affordable mobile computing has completely disrupted my leasure time and life.
Great graphics do make a game shine as so to speak. If your motivation was to keep up with the industry standerd let me ask this... Who is your competion? What other multi player space based game with such an emersive enviroment are you trying to keep pace with? Let me clue you in on somthing.. You are it!! No other game offered can match eve's content..not even close. Guys please continue to stay ahead of the curve but dont hurt the people who have grown to love your product. There are more of us than you considered. Best regards Max Yes I'm a newb. No I'm not stupid. |
Marty UK
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:08:00 -
[609]
Laptop user here. I came from a console background to EVE, because you didn't need a gaming machine to play it - which was great.
Now CCP have made the decision to stop supporting 2x versions of the client. I will assume that it is cheaper for CCP to loose subscription fees, rather than paying developers to maintain a classic and premium client.
EVE isn't a game about graphics, its about the gameplay, so there was no need to stop supporting SM1 apart from the save in $ú$ú$ú$ú$.
I am a laptop user because I don't have the room for a desktop, I actually paid more fro my laptop than a power equilivant desktop.
Yes I am annoyed, and I hope CCP actually appreciates the results of their decision not to support SM1 - the player base has now moved more to dedicated PC gamers.
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Hornychef
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Posted - 2009.03.12 12:58:00 -
[610]
Lots of discussion here. For me I have my wee netbook and want to play Eve when I am away on business or to play downstairs so I can actually be in the same room as the wife most days of the week. So I would really like to be able to play Eve on a "lesser" system even just to do some mining or other small task.
So I'll re-iterate my question again. Can CCP please reply whether they are supplying a Premium Lite version that will run on Shader 2 netbooks?
Thanks in advance,
Chef
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.12 14:44:00 -
[611]
Originally by: Hornychef Lots of discussion here. For me I have my wee netbook and want to play Eve when I am away on business or to play downstairs so I can actually be in the same room as the wife most days of the week. So I would really like to be able to play Eve on a "lesser" system even just to do some mining or other small task.
So I'll re-iterate my question again. Can CCP please reply whether they are supplying a Premium Lite version that will run on Shader 2 netbooks?
Thanks in advance,
Chef
I agree with you. CCP, by trying to be on the cutting edge misses a golden opprotunity to truly be in on the real innovation. They should be bringing in new customers and building goodwill with the ones they have but instead hack most of their customer base off to try and keep up with the other blind PC geeks.
A link to state the obvious. Seems like gamers may be the last to hear about this? http://www.techshout.com/laptops/2008/24/laptop-sales-overtake-desktop-pc-sales/
I can't see how forcing themselves into a niche market is going to make them any more money. Nobody thinks they shouldn't pursue cutting edge graphics but they had the best of both worlds and threw it away to short sightedly save a few dollars.
The real issue here is the complete lack of support or even a sypathetic ear for laptop players. The response is always the same. "we don't care. don't play games on a laptop" Talk about ignoring reality. And to think... they could have ruled the world!
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.12 15:53:00 -
[612]
On something more related to the topic. Some of the cards CCP says are not supported will actually run the game even though they don't do it very well.
From Eve supported graphics card page:
The following graphic cards are not supported by EVE
ATI Radeon VE / U1 / 7000 ATI Rage Fury / Rage128 Pro Diamond Viper II Z200 Hercules 3D Prophet 4500 Intel Extreme Graphics Onboard Intel chips, such as the Intel740, the Express 3D Graphics Card, and the 82830M/82815/82810/82845G/82852/82855/945GM GM/GME Graphics Controllers Voodoo 3 3000 Voodoo 5 5500 Voodoo4 4500 Riva TNT/TNT2 Matrox Millenium - G400 & G450 S3 Graphics ProSavageDDR SiS« 650/740 Graphics Controller
It does seem like there is still some confusion about this. I can run the game in premium lite with intel GM 945 chipset. From other posts I gather that this and other intel chipsets use software to attain shader 2. My understanding is that if you have this chipset your other stats will determine the level at which you'll be able to play eve.
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Hornychef
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Posted - 2009.03.12 16:30:00 -
[613]
Interesting Tadesae.
I have an Intel 945GM and have been attempting to run Premium on it but it has very very low fps. Again without the risk of banging on about it - I have turned down all the settings on Premium which I believe == Premium Lite. What sort of fps did you get?
Chef
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.12 17:05:00 -
[614]
To be honest, I was only on for a little while last night and mostly just talked to corpmates and now I'm at work so I can't check.
I never checked FPS when I was on classic because it only ever skipped when I was in a decent sized group running missions and there really wasnt anything I could do about it anyway. All I know is I ran out of station for a couple jumps and back. Just a little skippy when approaching the gates but overall better than I thought it would be. Real test will come tonight when I try to run a few missions. Of course, I can get that FPS tonight if you still need it.
Almost gave up on it yesterday when I saw my chipset not supported but auto installer came up when I tried it last night. I have no idea why because It didnt work the day before. make sure you download the latest drivers from intel's site because windows intaller may not have been keeping mine up to date. I was sure all my drivers were up to date from running windows update. In the end I'm not sure if it was a driver problem or CCP made some kind of change but I was able to log in and talk to friends at least. Hope that helps
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Crookster
Gallente Darkwave Technologies Doctrine.
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Posted - 2009.03.12 17:22:00 -
[615]
Been readig this thread for the last 2 days now, whilst trying to find a suitable graphics card that fits my machine. Despte the 3 months notice of this classic client being withdrawn. CCP really did not think this through.
You want to expand your membership via the box release in shops, was this just to raise $$ to cover the lost accounts you created?
Given the global economy, this is a shortsighted action, especially as you seem set on doing this again, by making shader 3.0 the minimum, towards the end of the year.
Many of the longer term players, have multiple acounts, and run on the lowest graphics settings anyway!! so why do we need a better graphics card..
Many players playerd on more than 1 PC, in more than 1 location. so need multiple graphics cards to get back to normal game play.
Mobile laptops are the way forward, even you yourselves have experimented with eve mobile on telephones, guess thats a dead idea now.
What is the point of making everyone buy better graphics cards, only for them to turn off 50% of the graphics, in any reasonable gang, in order to avoid lag!!! DOH!!
well as it stands, I will be letting my 3 accounts lapse at the end of this cycle, to help fund the new graphics cards (yes plural) i need to buy..
AND for god sake, i hope one of you has the balls to answer 1 question in this thread now.So we know what to upgrade to.
ARE YOU DOING THIS AGAIN IN THE WINTER EXPANSION!!!!
evryone deserves to know the answer to that now. Not when its too late to upgarde in a tough finacial situaton with the expensive christams season around the corner for most of us.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.12 20:48:00 -
[616]
A note on the economy crisis ... one cannot blame CCP for it. Buying new hardware helps the economy and that is what is needed to get out of the crisis.
Nevertheless, this should not be forced onto the players. CCP should have protected us from being forced, i.e. with an option to disable the 2.0 effects when necessary. Their decision was at best ... unwise. I actually remember one of their developers saying, in a video during the 6th tournament, that the new client would be more flexible and could possibly support old hardware better than the previous client. So what really happened here?!?
And one question regarding the effects: Why is there a visual "bubble"-effect when travelling through a stargate, but no effect on the other side on leaving it?!? The only way I can describe this visual experience for me is that at stargates "it sucks but doesn't give". -- You cannot win? It's called losing. |
lebanski
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Posted - 2009.03.12 22:05:00 -
[617]
Originally by: Tadesae To be honest, I was only on for a little while last night and mostly just talked to corpmates and now I'm at work so I can't check.
I never checked FPS when I was on classic because it only ever skipped when I was in a decent sized group running missions and there really wasnt anything I could do about it anyway. All I know is I ran out of station for a couple jumps and back. Just a little skippy when approaching the gates but overall better than I thought it would be. Real test will come tonight when I try to run a few missions. Of course, I can get that FPS tonight if you still need it.
Almost gave up on it yesterday when I saw my chipset not supported but auto installer came up when I tried it last night. I have no idea why because It didnt work the day before. make sure you download the latest drivers from intel's site because windows intaller may not have been keeping mine up to date. I was sure all my drivers were up to date from running windows update. In the end I'm not sure if it was a driver problem or CCP made some kind of change but I was able to log in and talk to friends at least. Hope that helps
Ihave the same chipset and updated the drivers yesterday.
have you experienced any freeze out/system crashing/blue screen when doing anything other than sit in a station?
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Goto95
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Posted - 2009.03.12 23:31:00 -
[618]
CANNOT USE THE NEW EVE!!!!! SHOULD HAVE LEFT THE CLASSIC VERSION AVAILABLE VERY UNHAPPY WANT A REFUND!!!!!!
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Fifenren
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Posted - 2009.03.12 23:42:00 -
[619]
Edited by: Fifenren on 12/03/2009 23:42:16
Originally by: Goto95 CANNOT USE THE NEW EVE!!!!! SHOULD HAVE LEFT THE CLASSIC VERSION AVAILABLE VERY UNHAPPY WANT A REFUND!!!!!!
You want a refund because technology is moving on from the 5+ year old crap that you are using? I'm sorry but if we had to wait for people like you, we would still be living in caves.
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Alexandros Tenace
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Posted - 2009.03.13 00:02:00 -
[620]
i recently download the full build of Apocrypha and i typed in my username and password to log on and windows shut down on me and a blue screen error message came up saying that there was a problem with my NVIDIA graphics driver, i tried logging on multiple times nad even tried re downloading the game but still the same result. My computer is running on a NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 graphics card, does this meet the requirments to play Apocrypha if so is there a solution to my problem?
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.13 01:20:00 -
[621]
Edited by: Tadesae on 13/03/2009 01:53:45
Originally by: lebanski
Originally by: Tadesae To be honest, I was only on for a little while last night and mostly just talked to corpmates and now I'm at work so I can't check.
I never checked FPS when I was on classic because it only ever skipped when I was in a decent sized group running missions and there really wasnt anything I could do about it anyway. All I know is I ran out of station for a couple jumps and back. Just a little skippy when approaching the gates but overall better than I thought it would be. Real test will come tonight when I try to run a few missions. Of course, I can get that FPS tonight if you still need it.
Edit: Servers are still screwy but I'm in and undocked, warped to belt, warped to gate jumped through with no visual problems.
FPS at undock and cruising away from station~ as high as 28 stable around 25. FPS at belt and approaching roids ~ 12 - 14 FPS at gate and Jump ~ 12-14 diped to 8 when I jumped.
I'm running Core Duo processor and 2GB of ram on a gateway laptop.
Hope that helps.
Almost gave up on it yesterday when I saw my chipset not supported but auto installer came up when I tried it last night. I have no idea why because It didnt work the day before. make sure you download the latest drivers from intel's site because windows intaller may not have been keeping mine up to date. I was sure all my drivers were up to date from running windows update. In the end I'm not sure if it was a driver problem or CCP made some kind of change but I was able to log in and talk to friends at least. Hope that helps
Ihave the same chipset and updated the drivers yesterday.
have you experienced any freeze out/system crashing/blue screen when doing anything other than sit in a station?
I logged in tonight but the server went down or booted me and a lot of others after only a few minutes. Plenty of threads about it so its not just me.
I was on last night for half an hour or so. undocked, jumped to gate and back to station. I never crashed or saw blue screen. I only noticed a little skipping when I approached the gate.
My system seemed stable. When I first logged in yesterday I had full premium enabled and in station it was very skippy and slow. I typed out a couple conversations and rotated the view around my ship before I logged out and reset my settings and had no other problems the short time I was on. Will let you all know FPS and other when if the server comes back up.
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byron yuu
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Posted - 2009.03.13 01:58:00 -
[622]
i just got a geforce 7300 gt card with shader 3.0 so im now set for the next update i hope. its a old computer with AGP slot so i had to order it over the net. try tigerdirect.com they have a lot of stuff for new and old computers. as for laptop users i dont think there is much you can do but hope ccp rebuilds this new client so you can use them again? a posability if everyone keeps complaining... also as for the agreement you must agree to that lets ccp off the hook for many things they do wrong that is just a con. the laws of the states or country your in makes this not applicable. they only do it so you read it and say (i agreed so cant do anything about it now). now im not saying they are gona back down from it so you may need to fight for your money back but you can do it if you do fight for it. im not sure where to look for the laws for your state or country but i'm sure you who can't play will have the time and the frustration to find the details about it. personaly im happy i can use my old comp to play again but now buying a new laptop will be a totaly dif story because i'll have to look for a machine thats way above most of the one's that go cheaper. i feel sorry for you who cant play now as i invested 5 years of my time and life to get where i am and i know a lot of you did the same. good luck to you all Byron
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.13 02:01:00 -
[623]
Edited by: Tadesae on 13/03/2009 02:19:17 Server is still screwy but I managed to log in, taxi away from station, warp to belt, warp to gate and jump through gate. No visual problems.
FPS at undock and taxing away ~ 23-28 Stable around 24 FPS while warping and approaching asteroids ~ 11-13 FPS approaching gate ~ 11-14 FPS at jump dipped to 8
I'm running Core Duo processor, intel945GM chipset and 2GB ram on my gateway laptop.
Edit: No problems engaging a pair of rats. FPS in the 20's Granted I'm alone still.
Hope that helps somebody
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ALVRAD
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Posted - 2009.03.13 12:16:00 -
[624]
Concerning the 'Apocalyps........Sorry..Apocrypha' download. I am coming to terms with the requirement to junk my laptop and buy a new computer. However, at the moment I am resident in Angola. The last time I checked, it will take approx 182 hours to download the new Premium Client: To help folks with my problem, would it not be possible to put the download on a few coded one-time use CD's? It is a win-win situation for you. You make money selling the CD's, the subscription stays the same, and you can use the additional funds to set up a 'Classic' server and keep about 20% 0f your present customers???
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Proteus Maximus
Caldari Mine 'N' Refine New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.03.13 14:52:00 -
[625]
Quote: You want a refund because technology is moving on from the 5+ year old crap that you are using? I'm sorry but if we had to wait for people like you, we would still be living in caves.
So explain how you where being held back by the classic client? Why should people who cant afford high end equipment & don't really care about shiny ships have to suffer? Not all of us are well off, rich or have mommy and daddy to buy us new computers. By your statment I gather you have the ability to still play. Unless you have somthing constructive to add to this thread then go play the game... We dont need insult added to injury... Oh and by the way CCP have been issuing refunds.. Whats that tell you? Yes I'm a newb. No I'm not stupid. |
Jade Blackwind
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Posted - 2009.03.13 19:52:00 -
[626]
Edited by: Jade Blackwind on 13/03/2009 19:55:22
Quote: My computer is running on a NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 graphics card, does this meet the requirments to play Apocrypha if so is there a solution to my problem?
I run the new client on a GeForce FX 5200 and it... functions, even with all settings set to "High", though it's like 0.5 FPS slideshow. With all settings to "low" and all effects off it's even somewhat playable, though the warp effect causes some real hiccups and even desyncs.
Of course, the Classic looked much better than the "all@low/off" Premium.
I hate, hate the fricking shaders... :(
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Rayne Jameson
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.14 08:48:00 -
[627]
Originally by: Jade Blackwind Edited by: Jade Blackwind on 13/03/2009 20:03:45
Quote: My computer is running on a NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 graphics card, does this meet the requirments to play Apocrypha if so is there a solution to my problem?
I run the new client on a GeForce FX 5200 and it... functions, even with all settings set to "High", though it's like 0.5 FPS slideshow. With all settings to "low" and all effects off it's even somewhat playable, though the warp effect causes some real hiccups and even desyncs.
Of course, the Classic looked much better than the "all@low/off" Premium.
try to get 6200. it even supports SM3. and it is like 10x faster than 5200. comparing it's like day and night. and now it's very very cheap too.
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Akor Flandres
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Posted - 2009.03.14 11:09:00 -
[628]
Quote: Why should people who cant afford high end equipment
You can get a GFX card that supports SM2 for next to nothing. 'high end equipment' it is not. Go tell your sob stories elsewhere, spend a little less time playing EVE and get a job if you're so poor.
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Callimminniss Prdsk
Cyrix Ltd. Tamanium
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Posted - 2009.03.14 14:31:00 -
[629]
Originally by: Akor Flandres
Quote: get a job if you're so poor.
Akor Flandres, the most idiot person to ever play this game?
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Sanny Barret
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Posted - 2009.03.14 15:17:00 -
[630]
I saw somewone post a list of graphic cards no longer suported ,.. whell add to that list nvidea FX5xxx (5200, 5500 ->128-256 Mb)series and all ATI radeon 9xxx series and ofc lower. The ATI ones say they have shader 2.0 but get mesage that "your computer does not meed minimim system req" and the nvidea ones (like mine FX5200) get about 0.3 - 8 FPS :( ,... this is not playing :( , and the option for upgrading video card does not exist since there are only few models that are better on the AGP slot,.. upgrading means new computer :( I feel i nead to specify i used to dualbox 2 clients on this computer and did soo for over 1 year. what`s the point of subscription for me since undocking is no longer a option :)) |
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.14 17:17:00 -
[631]
I don't see why people think they need a "gaming" computer in order to play EVE now. SM2 is old as well, and ANY machine that can run XP (or is designed for it) should be able to run it fine, although not at the best framerate.
If you don't have a machine that can play it, it's extremely easy to upgrade a desktop or build a cheap one if you don't have one. There's tutorials online for building desktops from scratch, and a little research can really pay off. ----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong."
Originally by: CCP Fallout
And yelling is bad. It makes the baby Jesus cry and when the baby Jesus cries I'm forced to lock threads |
Hino Sakura
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.15 04:01:00 -
[632]
Hmm, okay, I actually read this thread (aye, all twenty plus pages of it) and I have a few thoughts and a few comments - the harsh stuff first.
CCP owe you nothing, you have no 'right' to play the game and you undertake to ensure your intended hardware is capable of running their client before purchasing game time; the refunds may be morally implied but they're certainly not legally required and they amount to 'goodwill' on the part of CCP (bravo, by the way!).
Five years [or whatever your figure] playing the game is five years that you chose to play a game, nothing more - not only is it not 'work' nor an 'investment' in reality but you already had what you paid for so, seriously, STFU about refunds for the time you 'invested'.
Anyone whose hardware is incapable of running the new client has obsolete hardware, no matter how recently purchased or manufactured, that's just the facts and whilst we are at it, Netbooks and even 'standard' laptops are not gaming PCs, not intended to be and not marketed as such. If you manage to run a given game, in a way that's acceptable to you, on your hardware, regardless of the specifications and official support (as I often do) that's great; it's not that developer's problem, however, when you cease to be able to do so on a system spec they do not (probably never did) support any longer. In this case CCP at least bothered to poll the playerbase about the issue and actually altered plans and included features based on what they heard; those of you who were saying "leave Classic" just were not listening, as it was never an option for the reasons they outlined (which I shall not rehash).
3D-Analyze was an excellent suggestion but will not work, sadly, as CCP (for good reason) will not allow the 'foreign' DLLs to be 'injected' into the running code of the client. It'd go a long way if they were to introduce support for this and / or SWShader (or whatever its name is now).
Desktop users should buy a cheap replacement card (aye, it really *is* time to upgrade when the upgrade we are talking about involves already obsolete 'new' components) and carry on enjoying their game, about twenty quid lighter (i.e. around a month's subscription, maybe two) or more if they 'go the whole hog' and get at least SM 3 support. Laptop users; I feel your pain, I've been there myself - laptops are a tradeoff between power consumption, performance and portability and at the low end you can add 'price' to that mix. The key word was 'tradeoff' and with regards to performance on a laptop you essentially add to power consumption, weight (thus reducing portability) and price, all at once, for an improvement. Simply put: affordable laptops cannot realistically be used as desktop replacements for gaming and often not for serious business tasks either.
If you are in the UK (or abroad if you really want) for the cost of postage I can send you one of the following (from memory, will check and correct later):
ATI Radeon 95xx AGP(16x?) NVidia GeForce FX 5600 AGP(8x?) NVidia GeForce FX 6600 LE(16x?)
I've even got a couple of (all hardware works, obviously) Athlon XP CPUs and some DDR 400 SDRAM (about 4 GiB in various denominations). Oh, and some SODIMM DDR, too... (laptop RAM) I may check that later, as well.
To the naysayers: CCP are not idiots and your "you'll lose lots of your player numbers" is not what the server figures are telling me, in fact, I'd say that for everyone posting on here, on both sides, there are a hundred players who didn't even notice all this beyond the "Cool! Shiny new stuff!" level.
To CCP: Good call! Thanks for retaining SM 2 and please don't rush to enforce SM 3; it makes a difference to a lot more people (though not actually me, except on a philosophical level - I dislike unnecessarily flashy eye-candy that simply burns my power and heats my room) and probably doesn't improve the assets or performance nearly so much as the jump to 'assume SM 2 cap' does.
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Hino Sakura
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.15 04:07:00 -
[633]
I forgot to say (and would not have space anyway):
Those of you with BSODs, whiteouts and other major glitches - that's far more likely to be a driver issue than a client programming issue, ATi is attrocious for it but NVidia is not immune and the onboard solutions can be bad at times, too. I had to use Omega drivers to resolve that sort of issue with EVE & Mass Effect for sure and probably others but I've usually remembered the problem and swapped drivers by the time I install most of my other games.
You did remember to update Windows and get the latest drivers for your system, didn't you? ;¼)
P.S. This is all on my several years old laptop, which cost ú600 new, so quit the bull**** about upgrades or replacements costing thousands, too.
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Rayne Jameson
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.15 08:52:00 -
[634]
Originally by: Sanny Barret I saw somewone post a list of graphic cards no longer suported ,.. whell add to that list nvidea FX5xxx (5200, 5500 ->128-256 Mb)series and all ATI radeon 9xxx series and ofc lower. The ATI ones say they have shader 2.0 but get mesage that "your computer does not meed minimim system req" and the nvidea ones (like mine FX5200) get about 0.3 - 8 FPS :( ,... this is not playing :( , and the option for upgrading video card does not exist since there are only few models that are better on the AGP slot,.. upgrading means new computer :( I feel i nead to specify i used to dualbox 2 clients on this computer and did soo for over 1 year. what`s the point of subscription for me since undocking is no longer a option :))
the best i could get (without need to buy new PSU) for my now old A64 box with AGP was passive cooled 7600 GS. i play Fallout 3, Kane & Lynch etc no prob. very good card. pwns 5xxx, 6xxx hands down
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.15 11:23:00 -
[635]
Edited by: Whitehound on 15/03/2009 11:24:40
Originally by: Hino Sakura CCP owe you nothing, you have no 'right' to play the game and you undertake to ensure your intended hardware is capable of running their client before purchasing game time; the refunds may be morally implied but they're certainly not legally required and they amount to 'goodwill' on the part of CCP (bravo, by the way!).
They do owe us something when they take our money. You should know this. Refunding, for already paid subscriptions when an update breaks old hardware requirements, is not a moral act - it is the law and therewith our right.
Quote: To CCP: Good call! Thanks for retaining SM 2 and please don't rush to enforce SM 3; it makes a difference to a lot more people (though not actually me, except on a philosophical level - I dislike unnecessarily flashy eye-candy that simply burns my power and heats my room) and probably doesn't improve the assets or performance nearly so much as the jump to 'assum
That is just selfish when you argue against those who are being forced to upgrade and at the same time ask CCP not to rush to SM3.0. I would be overwhelmed if CCP moves straight to requiring SM4.0, DX10, hardware physics, a quad core, 4GB of RAM and Vista x64. However do I play EVE for a reason and that is because it is an MMO*) - a game for many people. The last thing I want to see on EVE is that some people are leaving.
Because it is an MMO EVE cannot compete with single-player games, and should not do so. New, better graphics is a necessity for single-player games but it is only a luxury for an MMO. Enforcing higher hardware requirements is a step into the wrong direction especially when one considers that they have shown that it can run without it. CCP should move forward but at the same time make it an option.
What happens when MMOs start to compete with single-player games is that you get more and more MMOs made by makers of single-player games. With higher hardware requirements, not to mention the loss of the Linux client, is EVE moving closer towards the new MMOs and becomes less distinguishable for new players. What will happen is that the hardware requirements, which allowed EVE to have many players, can now be turned against them. As a consequence will EVE not only lose a few players, but will find it harder to attract new players.
*) A great space MMO, to be more precise. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Hino Sakura
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.15 16:26:00 -
[636]
Whitehound - sorry to be blunt but you're quite simply wrong. CCP has no legal requirement to you whatsoever, outside the terms and conditions under which they sold you access to their software and service, i.e. the EULA. In the EULA you'll find that they are not responsible for making sure your hardware is able to run their software or access their service nor are they liable in any way as a result of updating their software, in fact they explicitly disclaim 'merchantability or suitability for any purpose whatsoever' IIRC, as this is standard practice to avoid spurious litigation.
As for your nonsense at the end.... well, I'll be kind and draft a response:
Selfish? LOL No, but even if it were, so what? Altruism's a myth and the background and gameplay in EVE ought to have highlighted that for you rather nicely. Noone is being forced to upgrade, you seem to confuse 'wish to play a game' with 'need to play a game'; please get a grip on reality, soon. If they went to a 64 bit only client (no point really, so they probably won't do so any time soon) and a requirement for SM 4, I'd just not be able to use my laptop to run the client *big shrug*, CCP never made any promises that I could do and it's not what laptops are even designed to do, as I already exhaustively discussed, along with many others on this thread. People leave EVE all the time for any number of reasons and people join it all the time too; another *big shrug*, it's only a game and will eventually be but a memory. For now it's fun and this client change is a "Good Thing (TM)".
All games, multiplayer, singleplayer, PC or console compete with each other, along with DVDs and other entertainment; if this is news to you, it's probably just best that you leave the business decisions to the CCP team. The rest of your post is 'cloud cuckoo land' stuff and basically already answered by my last sentence.
Sayounara arigatou.
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Aphrodite Skripalle
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Posted - 2009.03.15 17:54:00 -
[637]
A good gameplay doesnt need perfect grafic, it needs good balance and good ideas. I would much more appreciate better missions then shiny grafics.
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Hino Sakura
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.15 18:20:00 -
[638]
Aphrodite - Sure but they are not mutually exclusive, either and that's not what's being done anyway. The 'shiny new graphics' are already in the game, it's the 'Classic' client being retired and the new client being made SM 2 friendly which has taken place; the older client has to go anyway since they have not made Apocrypha assets for it.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.15 19:34:00 -
[639]
Originally by: Hino Sakura Whitehound ...
You can have an opinion and you can address me personally, but I will only listen to reason. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Hino Sakura
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.15 21:58:00 -
[640]
Neither opinion nor reason involved, sunshine, I simply gave you the facts.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.15 22:46:00 -
[641]
Originally by: Hino Sakura Neither opinion nor reason involved, sunshine, I simply gave you the facts.
"The sun shines" is a fact, but it is not the reason why it does so. If you want to make this a discussion then you need to come with a little bit more. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Hino Sakura
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.15 22:49:00 -
[642]
Further to my earlier post, here is the hardware, should anyone want it:
PNY GeForce 6600 LE DDR 256MB AGP - AGP 8x, supports SM 3.0
MSI GeForce 5600 TD256 - AGP 8x, supports SM 2.0a
Unknown MFTR ATi Radeon 9550 256 MiB - AGP 4x/8x, supports SM 2.0 (128 bit bus)
That wraps up the graphics cards, here's the memory:
2x Generic (Winbond chips) PC-3200 (DDR 400) 512 MiB DIMMs
3x Generic (PQI & unknown) PC-2100 (DDR 266) 256 MiB DIMMs
1x Hynix PC2-4200 (DDR2 533) 512 MiB SODIMM ('laptop memory')
2x Hynix PC2-5300 (DDR2 667) 256 MiB SODIMM
As for the CPUs:
1x AMD Athlon XP 3000+ ?? I'll check later 1x AMD Athlon XP 2800+ ?? Also check later
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Anemonae Ambrosia
Gallente V e x i l l u m
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Posted - 2009.03.16 02:01:00 -
[643]
My laptop is over a year old and it support DX10, i can't believe there are folks out there who can use SM2. All you people making a big deal like this is a huge step up in hardware requirements, SM2 is old old news its not the big new thing hardware wise EVE is way way behind the single player games. Thats not a problem at all but someone earlier compared this small step up to them trying to compete with the brand new single player games? What a freakin joke, this is a small step and if your PC can't support SM2 then your poor and you need to stop playing EVE and go use your free time to get a better job.
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Anton Marx
Caldari Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.16 14:34:00 -
[644]
Originally by: Anemonae Ambrosia My laptop is over a year old and it support DX10, i can't believe there are folks out there who can use SM2. All you people making a big deal like this is a huge step up in hardware requirements, SM2 is old old news its not the big new thing hardware wise EVE is way way behind the single player games. Thats not a problem at all but someone earlier compared this small step up to them trying to compete with the brand new single player games?
My laptop is a little over a year old too and it also supports DX10 and Shader 3.0 DUH. And still I cannot play EVE-ONLINE since FPS drops to under 20 the second I initiate warp. HOW COME CCP?
DESTROYED
Against ALL Authorities ?????! (c) Ivan Wise |
Hino Sakura
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.03.16 18:30:00 -
[645]
Anton - short answer: laptop graphics components are poor performers due to the compromise inherent in the form factor.
Longer answer: supporting a function is not the same as being able to do it efficiently or quickly, e.g. my laptop can drive a display at 1920 pixels by 1200 pixels, 24 bit colour with 8 bit alpha, 16x anisotropy and 6x anti-aliasing - I could render a nice 3D desktop but I'd be impressed with more than a frame a second running a 3D engine.
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Anton Marx
Caldari Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:35:00 -
[646]
Originally by: Hino Sakura Anton - short answer: laptop graphics components are poor performers due to the compromise inherent in the form factor.
Longer answer: supporting a function is not the same as being able to do it efficiently or quickly, e.g. my laptop can drive a display at 1920 pixels by 1200 pixels, 24 bit colour with 8 bit alpha, 16x anisotropy and 6x anti-aliasing - I could render a nice 3D desktop but I'd be impressed with more than a frame a second running a 3D engine.
So not did only CCP effectively ban all 2-year+ laptops (because of Classic) but also pretty much all 1-year laptop+ users because their graphics are not optimized and only favour PCs?
DESTROYED
Against ALL Authorities ?????! (c) Ivan Wise |
Reomo Lenda
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Posted - 2009.03.17 18:49:00 -
[647]
Weelll.....Lets see. I have a 2003 Dell Inspiron 8500. When I got it 4 years ago, it was considered by many to be the best laptop in the industry. It has an Nvidea GeoForce4 4200 graphics card. I have been playing Eve for maybe months and loving it. Got into a small corp with some great players and was working on getting my first cruiser. Made some good online friends and making more. Tried to update a few days ago and couldn't. Now that I've researched the site and seen the forum entries, it seems my current system won't support "Premium Lite". If I'm wrong, please let me know. If I'm right, this will be one of the biggest disappointments in over 35 years of gaming. I played when there weren't even any PC's around. Now, we have to pay CCP a monthly fee AND buy hundreds of dollars worth of upgrades every 2-4 years?! What was even more disappointing was some of the attitudes I've just encountered on the forum listings. If this game is supposed to be for total technophiles that don't consider a game 'worthy' unless it operates on the highest end graphics with the most expensive and time consuming upgrades. Then I hear some of the people saying that anyone who can't afford the 'best of the best' in hardware shouldn't be spending the $3.00 a day for a good time because they can't afford $100.00's in an upgrade. Just think about that kind of attitude. I'm thinking about whether I should be bothered trying to keep up with this.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:14:00 -
[648]
Originally by: Reomo Lenda ...$3.00 a day for a good time...
I would guess that your $3.00 a day just aren't enough to allow CCP to sustain the development of the client that runs on your antiquated hardware. Surely, your 35 years of gaming experience should have at least hinted at this? Those 35 years should have also allowed you to save up for the entirely predictable eventuality of having to periodically upgrade (or replace in the case of a laptop) your hardware. ...
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Tagar VoLurin
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:38:00 -
[649]
Razin: Your statements are the kind of thing I'm talking about. If you look at Anton Marx's post you'll see there (and elsewhere)that we are not just talking about "antiquated" year old laptops like mine. There are also non-optimized systems that just got excluded as well. And yes, I did anticipate that there would be changes and upgrades with my 35 years of experience. I also (mistakenly) believed that CCP would not want to lose people whom have been playing for years. People whom are not technologically savvy visionaries like yourself, but only dabble in Nutek for some enjoyment. People whose little $3.00 a day multiply into many thousands for CCP. People whom have a great deal of game experience and large networks of friends in Eve. People who are now gone and may not come back. These people are also often working class, and if they are near my age, aren't used to thinking of $1,500-3,000 invested in technology as being 'antiquated' in 5 years. Or having to replace/upgrade these things at a high price when the world at large is suffering from a near collapse in the economy. Given that viewpoint, I don't wish to judge you because that's unfair since I don't know you. I do think that your statement is kind of heartless though.
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Reomo Lenda
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Posted - 2009.03.17 21:40:00 -
[650]
Last post was actually by me. Forgot to switch character profiles.
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Aurvundill
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.17 22:58:00 -
[651]
How to solve this issue: Download CoLinux and Install it on your Windows XP Machine. Now download and use CoLinux to install Ubuntu/Debian/Gentoo and whatnot. Lists: http://colinux.wikia.com/wiki/Linux_Distributions#Ubuntu
After that download and install the LINUX CLIENT for EVE Online (which supports 1.0 Shader and whatnot on OpenGL).
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:47:00 -
[652]
Originally by: Aurvundill How to solve this issue: Download CoLinux and Install it on your Windows XP Machine. Now download and use CoLinux to install Ubuntu/Debian/Gentoo and whatnot. Lists: http://colinux.wikia.com/wiki/Linux_Distributions#Ubuntu
After that download and install the LINUX CLIENT for EVE Online (which supports 1.0 Shader and whatnot on OpenGL).
The Linux client is gone, too. -- If there is anything in your life you fear of losing, then keep your mouth shut once in a while. |
Aurvundill
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.18 00:25:00 -
[653]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Aurvundill How to solve this issue: Download CoLinux and Install it on your Windows XP Machine. Now download and use CoLinux to install Ubuntu/Debian/Gentoo and whatnot. Lists: http://colinux.wikia.com/wiki/Linux_Distributions#Ubuntu
After that download and install the LINUX CLIENT for EVE Online (which supports 1.0 Shader and whatnot on OpenGL).
The Linux client is gone, too.
/emote runs around screaming
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.18 01:07:00 -
[654]
Even though most of you can figure it out on your own I think its worth mentioning that the optimize settings for for performance tool CCP directs everyone to use doesnt work properly. At least not for me, or probably anyone who is running inferior SM2 supporting hardware. You need to manually set everything to low since optimizing set some options to medium for me. Just add that to CCP's fail list.
I don't begrudge them for upgrading to SM2 but I think its been handled very badly. Many like me were under the false impression that since their vid card said it was SM2 compatible we would still be able to play. I've yet to see anything from them about it which would have been nice. Even if it was post patch I would have appreciated knowing what I could expect instead of hoping the system wasnt running as expected.
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Wilson Yu
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Posted - 2009.03.18 05:47:00 -
[655]
Edited by: Wilson Yu on 18/03/2009 05:49:32 Woot, haven't been playing eve for a week due to cpu issue but by Thursday I should have install a 6th generation GeForce Graphic card. Not only that but i am increasing my RAM to 2 gigs and upgrading my hard drive. All for $250 dollars, 2 years of saving up did i manage to financially support myself in eve. Please do not upgrade eve online to sm4, if you do i will lose contact to my new found friends in eve online that i know personally. (Except their phone numbers)
Maybe this is the reason why you make a forum for your own corporation when you are a CEO. Hope none of my corp mates quit my corporation because i was absent for 2 weeks. Good luck to yall and hope you guys can enjoy eve online.
P.S. When I first start playing EVE I was surprise my 2002 Dell Home Edition Computer with an integrated graphic card can play such a awesome freaken son of a gun game. Man the good time did last and may better times come in journey ahead of us.
Oh and can anyone tell my friend ingame Ra'mah that I will be back in a couple of days. I would be grateful if you do.\
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Reomo Lenda
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Posted - 2009.03.18 17:28:00 -
[656]
I've really loved playing and made some cool friends. Can't play now because my card won't support Apocrypha SM2. I'm angry that CCP wasn't more specific about which cards wouldn't run the upgrade. Until I can afford an upgrade (ie. new laptop!) I can't play. Just cancelled my subscription. That's the only way to let CCP know in a way they'll remember that they shouldn't exclude clients without a good deal of advanced warning which I don't feel we got. Maybe I'll come back when I upgrade or maybe I'll just join a game that has more respect for their clients.
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Tadesae
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:07:00 -
[657]
The warnings they did give us were very confusing. All the talk of a nonexistant premium lite had me ignoring the warning at log in about not being able to use premium graphics. I still don't know if that was intended but I believed I would be good once they installed the patch.
Anywayz I can still play sortof so... I just feel I was led to believe my system would run better than it does. I've altered my play style to strictly industial/ science/ trade. No more missioning for me. I'm just not happy with the way it was handled, not asking CCP to buy me a new laptop.
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Deathwish Drang
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Posted - 2009.03.22 17:03:00 -
[658]
I have lost everything due to this upgrade, I can't run the game anymore, without me my corp fell apart, I can't even reset my skill training so I have lost weeks of training--I can't afford a new graphics card--How many others lost play-time on inactive accounts? Are we going to be reimbursed for our lost time and Real money wasted?
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Grez
Minmatar Core Contingency
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Posted - 2009.03.22 17:25:00 -
[659]
Edited by: Grez on 22/03/2009 17:25:50
Originally by: Deathwish Drang I have lost everything due to this upgrade, I can't run the game anymore, without me my corp fell apart, I can't even reset my skill training so I have lost weeks of training--I can't afford a new graphics card--How many others lost play-time on inactive accounts? Are we going to be reimbursed for our lost time and Real money wasted?
A) You had enough time to prepare. B) A SM2.0 graphics card costs about ú25.
Computer games, and MMO's especially, are an expensive hobby. If you're not prepared to upgrade every 18 months, then don't bother playing. It is a risk you took, you cannot blame CCP for improving their game for over 95% of their customer base. --- Have a rawr on me. |
Anton Marx
Caldari Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.03.24 04:34:00 -
[660]
Well, 2 weeks after the introduction of Apocrypha I am still puzzled as to why my SM 3.0 - supported card is not letting me play the game normally. I don't know what to do anymore. For the first time in 2 years, I'm considering to cancel my subscription...
My bug report is unfiltered 10 days after submission and the GM "handling" my petition is advising me to "turn my cache settings back to normal". The guy is apparently very very cofused o_O
Is petition/bug report the only way you can get CCP to do something about a problem you have? Can you call these guys?
DESTROYED
Against ALL Authorities ?????! (c) Ivan Wise |
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Johan Civire
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Posted - 2009.03.31 02:10:00 -
[661]
The only problems i have its the sounds me AC97 crash. SO i need to update me sound card and let the onboard card off. The video card manage the game without any problems. Only me laptop dont support the 3.0sh however the graphics its bad very bad on me laptop so i have flashing screen but i can play after 30min playing the craphics works again No problems with the video card. So every time i like to play on me laptop i need to wait 30 min in game to can play. Some day i will hunt you! |
Johan Civire
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Posted - 2009.03.31 02:15:00 -
[662]
Mm nice i use the amd 3000+ without any problems. So the cpu can handle it. The ati agp 8x radeon 9800+ pro 512mb works also without any problems The ati agp 8x Radeon HD3850 Pro 512mb Works also without any problems
However the onboard AC97 Soundchip will fail.
Originally by: Hino Sakura Further to my earlier post, here is the hardware, should anyone want it:
PNY GeForce 6600 LE DDR 256MB AGP - AGP 8x, supports SM 3.0
MSI GeForce 5600 TD256 - AGP 8x, supports SM 2.0a
Unknown MFTR ATi Radeon 9550 256 MiB - AGP 4x/8x, supports SM 2.0 (128 bit bus)
That wraps up the graphics cards, here's the memory:
2x Generic (Winbond chips) PC-3200 (DDR 400) 512 MiB DIMMs
3x Generic (PQI & unknown) PC-2100 (DDR 266) 256 MiB DIMMs
1x Hynix PC2-4200 (DDR2 533) 512 MiB SODIMM ('laptop memory')
2x Hynix PC2-5300 (DDR2 667) 256 MiB SODIMM
As for the CPUs:
1x AMD Athlon XP 3000+ ?? I'll check later 1x AMD Athlon XP 2800+ ?? Also check later
Some day i will hunt you! |
Angelos
Gateway Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.01 04:59:00 -
[663]
How come so many people complain they can't afford new video card? You can get supported video cards for same price as 60 day GTC! If you can't afford new card, you can't even afford to play EVE to begin with. Doesn't make sense to me... My computer is 2-3 years old and I still get average 60fps... with max settings.
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solo 49er
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Posted - 2009.04.15 02:10:00 -
[664]
Edited by: solo 49er on 15/04/2009 12:03:33
Originally by: Reomo Lenda
Weelll.....Lets see. I have a 2003 Dell Inspiron 8500
. Reomo...sorry mate...but you do really need to consider kicking that up a notch. A lot of things have changed in 6 years. You cannot in all seriousness expect the majority of current gamers to stay downgraded to that standard to facilitate you.)
Originally by: Reomo Lenda If I'm right, this will be one of the biggest disappointments in over 35 years of gaming.
And that little revelation... I mean come on??..The Apple II was released in 1977.. (32 years!) 5.25 in floppies playing Donkey Kong
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PH03N1X1
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Posted - 2009.06.18 21:02:00 -
[665]
I'll make this plain and simple,
Abit KT7a Raid M/B AMD Athlon 1GHz 512mb PC133 SDRAM MX440 GFX Card
EVE Classic no problem
Shader 2.0...............
" Your graphic card is out of date " thanx for the info CCP
No access = no gameplay
solution - upgrade graphic card# BUT M/B has agp 4x slot, new graphic card, geforce 5200 fx, thats all ( supports 4x AGP, all others 8x, no good to me ) solution - upgrade motherboard BUT new M/B means new processor Hell, new processor means new fan, new memory bigger PSU
where do we stop CCP ?
ditching the Classic client is FORCING many of us to buy a new computer,
Just to play EVE ....... I don't think so
ME !
not sure yet,
Time will tell
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Vaneshi SnowCrash
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Posted - 2009.06.19 04:21:00 -
[666]
Odd. Such an old dev blog reappearing. Still I will comment.
When Apoc' first came out it had a nasty little glitch with blaster fire when the camera was looking at the rear of a CNR. Even my 7900GS would stutter with graphics dialed down, this seems to have been fixed... so my big laptop is a-ok.
However, my netbook is a rebadged MSI Wind and like the vast majority of the units being sold has the hated GMA950 gfx chip, true I am gimping myself by making this a hackintosh and I realise this, which EVE seems to struggle with quite a bit even with a 24% overclock of the Atom processor and using GMABooster (I get 10 - 16fps in station... a lot less in space). It would be nice if the camera remembered where I'd left the zoom setting.
Indeed some form of "mini-client" that allowed us to fiddle with the market, production, chat and adjust skills (basically everything bar flying around) would be appriciated but I'd settle for the camera staying where I put it so the game doesn't gimp me more than I already have :) |
Khorvek
Amarr Hull Bound
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Posted - 2009.07.26 01:21:00 -
[667]
I reactivated my account today with the free account thing for one thing and one thing only, to say that despite playing for a year and paying money in, having a laptop, that means no upgrades unless I buy a whole new machine, I now have to drop my account. I'd give my stuff away, but seeing as I can't play the game, thats not possible.
Goodbye to my tech II ships and Prat hunting, it was fun while it lasted.
Originally by: rValdez5987 the OP is just mad that his vagabond cant run around like he just picked up the gold star in mario brothers anymore.
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Raduque
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Posted - 2009.09.20 13:17:00 -
[668]
Originally by: PH03N1X1 I'll make this plain and simple,
Abit KT7a Raid M/B AMD Athlon 1GHz 512mb PC133 SDRAM MX440 GFX Card
EVE Classic no problem
Shader 2.0...............
" Your graphic card is out of date " thanx for the info CCP
No access = no gameplay
solution - upgrade graphic card# BUT M/B has agp 4x slot, new graphic card, geforce 5200 fx, thats all ( supports 4x AGP, all others 8x, no good to me ) solution - upgrade motherboard BUT new M/B means new processor Hell, new processor means new fan, new memory bigger PSU
where do we stop CCP ?
ditching the Classic client is FORCING many of us to buy a new computer,
Just to play EVE ....... I don't think so
ME !
not sure yet,
Time will tell
3 month old post but anyway... An AGP 8x card will "downclock" itself to run in an AGP 4x motherboard.
So, you don't need to buy a new computer, but you should - that machine you're using is ancient garbage and should've been scrapped in 2004. I've thrown better hardware than that in the trash just because it was taking up room.
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Phi Au
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.09.22 23:50:00 -
[669]
Antialiasing. Do it!
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