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CCP, please rethink the attribute re-specialisation

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Number 86 Eat Ship and Die	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:29:00 - [31] Edited by: Number 86 on 10/02/2009 17:34:30 OP is slippery slope or red heron......... one of them anyways. cant actually argue that everyone will do something always just to let you know, from the pics I have seen there is a cap on each attribute. So you cant really "min/max" like you think. *edit Just calm down, to be honest I have a feeling the more people will simply take a single respec and go for a more balanced approach (close to equal attribute, maybe leaving charisma a little short). The people whom have really unbalanced attributes are the one's who, to me, are the most likely to benefit from a respec. I went for a very balanced attribute spread on both my characters and I honestly doubt whether I will ever respec.
DNSBLACK Gallente Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Associates	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:32:00 - [32] Can some one link the blog or the post on this matter. Iam having trouble finding it. I would like to read about this proposed change.
Alowishus the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:32:00 - [33] Sorry but this is a good thing. And if you don't like it you don't have to use it.
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:33:00 - [34] Originally by: iudex First of all it's a good thing that you listen to your players, people have been asking for a chance to correct their beginners mistakes for years. You try to do things better than people ask, in order to make it awesome, but in this case you overdone it a little bit. It is perfectly fine to give people the chance for a once-in-a-lifetime redistribution of attributes, that can be done earliest after e.g. 3 months of game-time, so that people make this decision in a moment where they can properly estimate the consequences. But being able to redistribute every 6 months changes the whole skill training pattern, which has been a successful core feature of Eve for over 5 years. Now people will max one side for 6 months and then the other in the next 6 months. Everyone will be training everything at maximum speed and efficiency, no diffrence between the industrialist and the combat specialised pilot. It's a little bit like in Starwars Galaxies:NGE, where your initial choice of your pathway doesn't matter, this arbitrariness isn't necessarily better. It also reduces the necessity of specialised alts (e.g. industry alts for combat pilots) and might even cost you subscriptions, since it will be much easer to re-spec and train the missing skill-trees. Eve will definitely lose something, if you introduce this the way it is now planned, and there's no way back once you introduce it, so please reconsider this feature again. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! In other news, this is NOTHING like SWG and the NGE. Stop fear mongering. -Karlemgne
insidion Caldari Last of the Technocracy Atrocitas	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:34:00 - [35] Originally by: Cyb3r D3ath I like the new respec system the way it is thank you. Good job CCP! This. Every six months is a necessary evil because frankly things change, and so does your focus. I have no idea why now of course, but when I started EVE, I focused almost entirely on industry. I was so displeased with my original character that I deleted it after my trial was up and did a complete fresh start with a new one that made better use of the attributes. Two weeks down the toilet, but after a few years I don't regret it at all. Choosing to boost your attribs in one direction comes with the direct penalty that you suck at all other attribs. Besides, if 'they' can do it, so can you, so overall it's balanced and I really don't see any reason to not offer this option, particularly so that noobies can feel like they have a chance to 'catch up' SP wise to the vets of the game. Just because you can fly a certain ship or even ship class certainly does not mean that you are 'good' at it. That can only really come from experience and really playing the game. Don't like it, don't use it, but don't ruin it for the innumerable that do want this feature. =)
Ergebt Euch	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:37:00 - [36] Originally by: Alowishus Sorry but this is a good thing. And if you don't like it you don't have to use it. Wow what a brilliant point ! Let's ask CCP to give everyone 10 billion isk and a navy titan. This will crash the economy, but hey, if you don't like it you don't have to take it.
AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:39:00 - [37] Unfortunately CCP like every other MMO has been forced to think about "cash" instead of tried and tested gameplay. You can't blame a company for dumbing down such an awesome game, every other company is doing it also. It's the trend of the future. You can't have complicated MMOs or the kids won't want to play them = mom and dad don't pay bill.
Rviii	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:39:00 - [38] Originally by: Cyb3r D3ath I like the new respec system the way it is thank you. Good job CCP! I agree, good job, not too much, not too little. It's about time there was some new thinking, so many pessimists here. "If you take on pebble and everyone did there be no beach?" not going to happen... Role on the fixes !! Viva la Eve
N'irrti Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:43:00 - [39] Edited by: N''irrti on 10/02/2009 17:43:45 Originally by: Rodj Blake Everyone training everything at the same rate removes diversity. This is a bad thing. qft
Sazkyen	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:44:00 - [40] Originally by: AkRoYeR Unfortunately CCP like every other MMO has been forced to think about "cash" instead of tried and tested gameplay. You can't blame a company for dumbing down such an awesome game, every other company is doing it also. It's the trend of the future. You can't have complicated MMOs or the kids won't want to play them = mom and dad don't pay bill. And you arrogant like hell.
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:44:00 - [41] Originally by: N'irrti Edited by: N''irrti on 10/02/2009 17:43:45 Originally by: Rodj Blake Everyone training everything at the same rate removes diversity. This is a bad thing. qft Everyone of the same race/makeup have been training at the same rate for years. They aren't called cookie cutter builds for nothing. __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
Alowishus the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:45:00 - [42] Originally by: Ergebt Euch Originally by: Alowishus Sorry but this is a good thing. And if you don't like it you don't have to use it. Wow what a brilliant point ! Let's ask CCP to give everyone 10 billion isk and a navy titan. This will crash the economy, but hey, if you don't like it you don't have to take it. I made one statement and then another, I didn't say the second statement was validation for the first. I do empathize with MMO purists who insist that a game must suck in order to be good and revel in the annoyances, don't get me wrong. /makes fart noise
AkRoYeR Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:46:00 - [43] Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Ergebt Euch Originally by: Alowishus Sorry but this is a good thing. And if you don't like it you don't have to use it. Wow what a brilliant point ! Let's ask CCP to give everyone 10 billion isk and a navy titan. This will crash the economy, but hey, if you don't like it you don't have to take it. I made one statement and then another, I didn't say the second statement was validation for the first. I do empathize with MMO purists who insist that a game must suck in order to be good and revel in the annoyances, don't get me wrong. Not necessarily purists, but rather a different mindset, probably one of more maturity.
Alowishus the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Marius Deterium One of the big advantages of Eve is to not be tied to some archtype. If you need DPS, get in a DPS ship, if you need tank, get in a tank ship. If you need reps, get in a RR ship. Attribute respec just enhances this. Everyone training everything at the same rate removes diversity. This is a bad thing. Everyone being Archura Monks or Sebiestor Tinkerers removes diversity from the game. Leveling the playing field puts diversity back in. /makes fart noise
Alowishus the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:49:00 - [45] Originally by: AkRoYeR Not necessarily purists, but rather a different mindset, probably one of more maturity. And yet you're probably the type of person who stupidly jumps into my gate camp and then whines about how hard Eve is. /makes fart noise
Plumpy McPudding	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:49:00 - [46] Originally by: AkRoYeR Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Ergebt Euch Originally by: Alowishus Sorry but this is a good thing. And if you don't like it you don't have to use it. Wow what a brilliant point ! Let's ask CCP to give everyone 10 billion isk and a navy titan. This will crash the economy, but hey, if you don't like it you don't have to take it. I made one statement and then another, I didn't say the second statement was validation for the first. I do empathize with MMO purists who insist that a game must suck in order to be good and revel in the annoyances, don't get me wrong. Not necessarily purists, but rather a different mindset, probably one of more maturity. I couldn't agree more! When they added the ability to view contracts in different regions, I was most upset. My maturity to tolerate useless and time consuming activities was trounced by immature little brats! /sarcasm __________________________ Fear me for I have an insatiable appetite! Proprietor and inventor of Chocolate Chip Chocolate Donut flavored Ice Cream.
YORK CRAFT Caldari KRAFTWERK	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:50:00 - [47] The OP got the point quite good. To respec once after 3 month of character-creation is kind of fair ( think : thats 2 times more you get compared to RL ! ) But seriously, after that, all other changes and progresses belonging exclusively to skills, implants and ships/modules. An attribute is a basic feature for an avatar, like human DNA, and not a profane module you can replace or change as you want from time to time ! York Craft
RisenPhoenix Shadowyn Corp.	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:51:00 - [48] Edited by: RisenPhoenix on 10/02/2009 17:51:08 Originally by: Alowishus Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Marius Deterium One of the big advantages of Eve is to not be tied to some archtype. If you need DPS, get in a DPS ship, if you need tank, get in a tank ship. If you need reps, get in a RR ship. Attribute respec just enhances this. Everyone training everything at the same rate removes diversity. This is a bad thing. Everyone being Archura Monks or Sebiestor Tinkerers removes diversity from the game. Leveling the playing field puts diversity back in. a 1 time respec fixes overpowered bloodline problems and young and stupid mistakes no reason for it to be every 6 months that wouldd ruin the games diversity ------------------------------------------------
Kytanos Termek Caldari Darkstorm Command Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:51:00 - [49] I dont understand why everyone is complaining it's a wonderful feature. Mrr?
Taylor timenenzi	Posted - 2009.02.10 17:59:00 - [50] Because we really needed another one of these threads right? It would prolly serve your cause better to make on major thread that runs 10 pages or more then thinknig your special and need to make your own little thread.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:00:00 - [51] I don't see it as a huge issue, really. You can't distribute below 5 points, so the minmaxing achura are pretty screwed anyway.
Talidorn The Scope	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:04:00 - [52] Alright! I like it!!!! My evemon plans will now be 6 months long. Max SP gain INT\MEM for 6 months (to fix things like electronics, engineering, etc) then 6 months for PER\WILL for 6 months to get ships & weapons! Good call CCP. This will help my carebear self move to more pewage. I just hope the queue lasts more than 24H. :D Talidorn
Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:06:00 - [53] On the other hand, the ability to re-allocate attributes encourages players to try out other facets of gameplay aswell as favours new players who can make most use of the feature. Benefits to new players are arguably the lifeline of any MMO and the 'metagaming opportunity' this feature enables is not all that harmful. People still have room to make mistakes: consider for instance the hypothetical Bob who wants to train some combat skills, re-allocates his stats for the purpose only to discover a week later that he ù for one reason or another ù doesn't want to take the path afterall. In fact, if you look at it this way, the feature favours smart playing over a situation where some have been advantaged as the result of mainly luck. If anything, it is more fair of a system where advantage is not tied to a singular choice but the recurring need to make optimal choices for the sake of competitiveness. And in the end, differences in attributes take time to bear fruit and remain only a small part of what makes a successful character. However, I would not be against dropping the frequency of re-allocation to a year, or something in between a year and 6 months.
Uraga Kurofune	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:08:00 - [54] Edited by: Uraga Kurofune on 10/02/2009 18:08:17 All I need is a one time attrib respec for my main who has ridiculously high charisma. Other than that I couldn't care less.
Karash Amerius Evolution KenZoku	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:10:00 - [55] Everyone seems to love this...but I really have a gut feeling that CCP is 'jumping the shark' here. If CHA is such a problem, why not just come out with more CHA based skills/gameplay design? Seems like giving up on that is bad form. Choices should always have consequences...its the core design element in Eve. (This coming from a very high CHA / WP char...that is PVP based ) ____________________________________________ "Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog
Berious Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Kayosoni ITT: Butthurt achura cause he'll no longer have an advantage over every other bloodline (except for the 3 base charisma) Yeah, this
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam Exalted.	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:13:00 - [57] Originally by: Kayosoni ITT: Butthurt achura cause he'll no longer have an advantage over every other bloodline (except for the 3 base charisma) this - Infectious -
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:24:00 - [58] Originally by: insidion Tvery six months is a necessary evil because frankly things change, and so does your focus. I have no idea why now of course, but when I started EVE, I focused almost entirely on industry. I was so displeased with my original character that I deleted it after my trial was up and did a complete fresh start with a new one that made better use of the attributes. Two weeks down the toilet, but after a few years I don't regret it at all. And that is the real problem — a problem that respeccing hides rather than solves, and I'd say that the same goes for the proposed NPE mechanism. The apparent problem is that you don't really know ahead of time what you want to do later, and that this holds especially true for new players. However, wouldn't a better solution be to actually be very upfront about what the attributes are used for and about which are more important for the different paths? The new character creation method even further muddies the water by doing away with the (admittedly minimally) instructive carreer paths and the skills you get automatically with them, and instead effectively forces people to start out with training learning skills, learning skills and nothing but learning skills. Also, wouldn't it help a lot of the usefulness of the different attributes were mixed up a bit? Make sure that those "miscalculations" at the beginning no longer are miscalculations, because every attribute turns out to be very very useful. Yes, yes, I'm saying this because I'm a Cha 3 Achura etc etc etc… except that the reason I'm a Cha 3 Achura is because it was obvious from the second I started the game that Charisma was a useless attribute. I'm not against respeccing as such (not that I will use it since it forces me to increase my precccciousssss Cha 3 to 5, iiik!), but I think it's a rather roundabout way to attack a problem that should be solved rather than covered up… Solve the problem and that forced Cha increase won't feel like a sacrifice, but rather as a good investment.
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:30:00 - [59] Why I think attribute respecialisation is good ; - Fix mistakes in first 3 minutes of play ( As said, this could stop certain people who may consider subbing their trials but didn't cause their attribs were borked so they just let the trial end and went elsewhere. ) - Character traders have one less thing penalising them (Still going to have embarrassingly ******ed names sometimes. Razz ) - Attributes become a little more of a active ingame element, rather then do learning, stick in implants, forget about them. - You can't train all professions on one character, it'd take forever, someone pointed out the other day to look at what Dr Caymus doesn't have and he's been skilling for 5 years. Besides if people decide to train two professions on the same char using attribute respec, LESS METAGAMING!. Smile
viuva	Posted - 2009.02.10 18:32:00 - [60] CCP i want to put my Skillpoints in another skill... hope you remember me in next patch.. this is whant gonna happen next !! Bad idea... this feature sucks First you remove learning skills lvl5 to train the advanced learnings... now this this is going the wrong way !!! Macdonnalds way

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