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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2009.02.11 08:49:00 -
[121]
I don't think I like the periodic nature of it. Once or twice I can understand, to make up for those mistakes, but it seems like this is just going to lead to people putting it all in int/mem/char for 6 months, training gang and industry skills, then put it all in perc/will, train 6 months of combat skills, rinse and repeat over and over.
Players should have to make some basic decisions on whether they want to skew more toward fighting, industry, or corp-level stuff. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Deva Blackfire
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.02.11 08:57:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Dari Anoh
In addition, I believe the current total training time of all skills is around 20 years or so. Is it really so bad that we'll be able to gain some terrain in that department and benefit from a little bit of faster training? I don't think it is.
You are stupid. And even hinting that people should train faster because to train ALL skills to lv5 takes 20 years makes your whole post not credible.
The problem is min-maxing, FOTM or call it whatever. New char created? Wait for skill ques for next 6 months when you respec and get skill que for next 6 months. Removes all individuality, when every character can be exactly the same.
Also CCP fights against FOTM or overusing one thing (particular ship types/setups) and moment later puts system which promotes doing so and training for FOTM stuff.
I say it again: 1-2 point respec per year is enough to slowly drift away from buggered attribs. Or once-per-lifetime respec (lets say after 3-6 months from creating char so you dont screw yourself over as a newb). 6 month times is WAY too short because it enables you to respec after every expansion thus training everything expansion has to offer fast.
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Kalintos Tyl
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:01:00 -
[123]
Achuras whining about atributes change are so sweet :D
60D GTC - shattared link |
Tobin Arkon
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:02:00 -
[124]
I think everyone is overlooking one very important fact about Eve, feel free to brush me off because I've only played for one week vs. fifty...but...
Eve is a game...that we all play...for fun....
There...I said it
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Deva Blackfire
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:03:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Tobin Arkon I think everyone is overlooking one very important fact about Eve, feel free to brush me off because I've only played for one week vs. fifty...but...
Eve is a game...that we all play...for fun....
There...I said it
So why dont we get "max all skills" button? Its even easier.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:10:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Kaivos I think the OP is over worried about this. At best this is going to cut day or two here and there.
Uhm. No.
"A day here and there" is what you get when you change from +3 to +4 implants. Playing around with this feature would allow me to cut a 210-day charisma-based skill queue down to 140 days… That's a third less. Granted, since I accidentally picked an Achura, I may be an edge case, but that gives you a feel for the scope of the problem.
Add to this the vastly increased emphasis on learning skills that come with the new NPE, and things are starting to look very bad indeed… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Levistus Junior
Caldari The Perfect Storm Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:12:00 -
[127]
I personally think that periodical respecs are wrong.
Of course, not many new players will have the patience to respec 15/9/5/5/5 and train only a certain type of skills, but for older players, that have the base already laid down it will be no big deal to do that. So IMHO this will increase the SP gap between the older and newer players, since the former have a much easier time taking advantage of a focused set of attributes.
Secondly, what's the point of having chosen a bloodline if it's stats become completely irrelevant?
I'd be more than ok with a one-time (maybe twice) respec, ideally only the 5 stat points that you could distribute during character creation as to keep race/bloodline identities, but I could work with the current system if it was a one-time thing.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
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Deva Blackfire
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:13:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Levistus Junior
I'd be more than ok with a one-time (maybe twice) respec, ideally only the 5 stat points that you could distribute during character creation as to keep race/bloodline identities, but I could work with the current system if it was a one-time thing.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
And this is best idea of them all tbh. Small changes not massive overhaul. CCP, you still didnt fix lots of stuff from previous "not pre-nerfed" systems.
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teoliit
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:21:00 -
[129]
Edited by: teoliit on 11/02/2009 09:24:07 For all the talking people do about how hardcore the game is there sure are a lot of whiny b****es in the community
No one is forcing you to minmax your stats, and guess what: you'll be fine even if you don't. You're fine even if you don't get the learning skills too
It would be better though if they just removed attributes and just had faster training from items
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Tobin Arkon
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:30:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Tobin Arkon I think everyone is overlooking one very important fact about Eve, feel free to brush me off because I've only played for one week vs. fifty...but...
Eve is a game...that we all play...for fun....
There...I said it
So why dont we get "max all skills" button? Its even easier.
Because then it wouldn't be a game, it'd be a simulator I don't think it's a good Idea to punish your player base because they didn't know what they were doing the first 3min of their Eve life. And lets be honest here, at the end of the day it STILL comes down to player skill and not stat skills. So instead of having to wait until Friday to blow up a noob in his new cruiser you get to do it on Wednesday now. Those folks that have been playing for months and years will still have a great advantage.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:38:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Tobin Arkon I don't think it's a good Idea to punish your player base because they didn't know what they were doing the first 3min of their Eve life.
So a one-time respec within the first 6 months is all we need.
…and more immediate and truthfull instruction on what the attributes do at character creation. …and less emphasis on learning skills than what the double-speed early learning will bring. |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:51:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Coronae Borealis OP is wrong.
Think about caldari achura. 3 points of charisma as for start, then you get maximum of 18 with all learnings 5 and +5 implants. While maximum charisma attribute is somewhere around 29 or 31.
Off course CCP doesn't let you rearrange those attributes like you are thinking.
What will eve loose is that not every damn miner is achura anymore. With this even khanid cyberknight can learn something else than trading skills.
So where exactly is the OP wrong ? Did you read it actually ? It agrees that a one time respec is good. Also you are wrong on the achura, it has 19 charisma with maxed skills and implants. That miners chose Achura is a ******ed assumption, noone claimed that except you.
Originally by: Coronae Borealis Edited by: Coronae Borealis on 11/02/2009 06:32:38 And I need to add that OP is also wrong in this.. Your initial pathway NEVER has been matter in EVE. If I choose a industry out of the box character and start training military skills - it's already ruined.
If choosing certain bloodline would give bonuses to actual game play - then it would be like in that boring nge. But not in eve where you can turn ANY character to miner or combat pilot, and it's always been like that.
You contradict yourself in the first sentence. If it's "already ruined", then how can you say the initial pathway NEVER mattered in EVE ? You have to understand that the pathway in Eve is not the bloodline but the attribute setup. Only this decides if you are about to become a indusry/trading/mining oriented player or a combat pilot. For this decision the attribute selection mattered before, it will not matter anymore thereafter because of the possibility to change them every 6 months.
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Dari Anoh
Amarr Anoh Shavar
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Posted - 2009.02.11 09:52:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire You are stupid.
I am a little, yes. I still have that silly expectation that people will actually read other people's posts, think about them and then explain their own point of view in a mature and constructive way. You know, what you're doing right here. *cough*
Originally by: Deva Blackfire And even hinting that people should train faster because to train ALL skills to lv5 takes 20 years makes your whole post not credible.
Right. Because if you don't agree with one point raised in someone's post, it immediately makes the other ones invalid and you can safely ignore them. Which is much easier than providing counter arguments to the other points raised, let alone admitting someone might be right about something that conflicts with the case you're trying to make. It must be wonderful living in your black and white world where there's no room for anyone's opinion but your own.
I've merely mentioned this to illustrate there are a lot of possible skills to learn, and the number of skills is only increasing. I'm not suggesting everyone is going to learn all of those, nor am I suggesting we should train faster. I'm just pointing out with the wide variety available, I don't think it's a bad thing we'll be able to speed things up a little bit here and there and cover that little bit more ground depending on the choices we make.
Seeing as I'm fairly certain you'll respond in the same constructive manner should I voice my opinion about your other statements, I'll save myself some time and simply "say it again" too: Nice feature CCP, looking forward to it.
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Digital Solaris
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:04:00 -
[134]
I do agree with the OP that this looks like a NGE feature. But it boggles my mind as to why some people are finding it to be contributing factor to dumbing the game down?
It is not going to affect the game in any way than how spent attribute points can be redone twice a year and how much faster skills might finish. Plus if you don't want to use it, then don't.
How is that suddenly a bad thing for anyone playing EVE?
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Geralttrade
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:14:00 -
[135]
Well I just added it all up all possible combinations of stats that you can start with and I came up with this: Race BloodlineAncestoryPercIntMemWilChaTotal Caldari AchuraInvent71266334 Caldari AchuraStargaz8896334 Caldari AchuraMink9868334 Amarr KhanidCyberkn11648534 Caldari DetisScienti61075634 Minmatar SebiestorTinker51166634 Amarr NikunniBurdrun10664834 Minmatar SebiestorRebel8767634 Caldari CivireEntrep9586634 Minmatar VherokiorDrifter6983834 Minmatar BrutorSlave11449634 Gallente GallenteImigr10646834 Gallente Jin-MeiJing Ko10557734 Caldari DetisMercha57115634 Minmatar BrutorWorker9487634 Gallente GallenteMiner8684834 Amarr KhanidUnion8748734 Amarr KhanidZealot85610534 Caldari CivireMerc95410634 Amarr AmarrWealthy47910434 Gallente IntakiReborn38116634 Gallente Jin-MeiSaan Go6777734 Amarr AmarrRelig47614334 Caldari DetisTubech5779634 Gallente IntakiArtist5876834 Caldari CivireDisse9548834 Minmatar BrutorTribal94410734 Minmatar VherokiorMystic4886834 Minmatar VherokiorRetail47113934 Amarr NikunniNavyvet7568834 Amarr AmarrLiberal47611634 Gallente GallenteActivis86441234 Minmatar SebiestorTrader57661034 Gallente Jin-MeiSang Do65510834 Gallente IntakiDiplom38761034 Amarr NikunniFrmmerc75641234
There we go... everyone starts off with a total of 34 points... in the end if everyone exploits it it makes no difference :p |
Aenigma
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:15:00 -
[136]
I think it's a very good idea. I started out with 3 base perception, because I was a noob back in 2004 and thought I didn't need perception. By the time I regretted that, I already had too much SP to restart.
I say it should be allowed once every two years. Six months cooldown is rather short, and might lead to people actively minmaxing. I think two years of cooldown is a bit too long to practically plan for maximizing efficiency, and that would make it just fine.
A once in a lifetime option would be a good option as well.
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Nguyen VanPhuoc
Minmatar The Halibuts
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:28:00 -
[137]
i love the respec, once every six months is perfect ___________________ MAXimum CAOD!
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Turix
Interstellar eXodus Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:29:00 -
[138]
Personally i feel 6 months is far far too short and as many people have said pretty much negates the points of attributes all together.
I think that a one off respec per character would be sufficent to allow people the chance to fix issues they made when they were a noob, but every 6 months completely changes the mechanics of skill training.
Maybe a longer time frame? Once a year? 18 Months or even 2 years? __________________________
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:35:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Digital Solaris I do agree with the OP that this looks like a NGE feature. But it boggles my mind as to why some people are finding it to be contributing factor to dumbing the game down?
It is not going to affect the game in any way than how spent attribute points can be redone twice a year and how much faster skills might finish. Plus if you don't want to use it, then don't.
How is that suddenly a bad thing for anyone playing EVE?
Because it increases the gap between new and old players while claiming to do the opposite perhaps?
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Si Raven
Raven's Toy Production
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:40:00 -
[140]
I think the number of points that can be changed is excessive.
On the test server, I have Per 19 with a +3 implant. I can increase that to 30 for only 5M isk! I have another character with a +4 implant. That character can reach 31 Per.
Now, you all know what I'm doing when this goes live! |
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:44:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Si Raven I think the number of points that can be changed is excessive.
On the test server, I have Per 19 with a +3 implant. I can increase that to 30 for only 5M isk! I have another character with a +4 implant. That character can reach 31 Per.
Now, you all know what I'm doing when this goes live!
Exactly my point!
You'll be maxing out your Perc when training Perc skills - and so will everyone else but the noobs.
Won't somebody think of the noobs? |
Sida Hurra
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:57:00 -
[142]
just for mentioning SWG NGE he should be hit by a 16 wheeler bus full of stuffed carebears.
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Sida Hurra
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:59:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Si Raven I think the number of points that can be changed is excessive.
On the test server, I have Per 19 with a +3 implant. I can increase that to 30 for only 5M isk! I have another character with a +4 implant. That character can reach 31 Per.
Now, you all know what I'm doing when this goes live!
Exactly my point!
You'll be maxing out your Perc when training Perc skills - and so will everyone else but the noobs.
Won't somebody think of the noobs?
it's not what you want it's what the mass wants. So just stop fighting it. Serioucely it's not 2005, 5mil is nothing nowadays.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:05:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Sida Hurra
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Si Raven I think the number of points that can be changed is excessive.
On the test server, I have Per 19 with a +3 implant. I can increase that to 30 for only 5M isk! I have another character with a +4 implant. That character can reach 31 Per.
Now, you all know what I'm doing when this goes live!
Exactly my point!
You'll be maxing out your Perc when training Perc skills - and so will everyone else but the noobs.
Won't somebody think of the noobs?
it's not what you want it's what the mass wants. So just stop fighting it. Serioucely it's not 2005, 5mil is nothing nowadays.
The mass of people enjoy listening to Girls Aloud.
Does that make them incredibly talented?
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Johnny Gurkha
Death Cult Covenant
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:05:00 -
[145]
CCP are catering to the whiners once again...
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:10:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Sida Hurra
Originally by: Rodj Blake
You'll be maxing out your Perc when training Perc skills - and so will everyone else but the noobs.
Won't somebody think of the noobs?
it's not what you want it's what the mass wants. So just stop fighting it. Serioucely it's not 2005, 5mil is nothing nowadays.
The mass wants some kind of stat redistribute system, but are iffy about the current implementation. I would like a system that maintained the race/bloodline limits on what you can change. I don't really see the reason why they are being removed from the game.
The 5 mil isn't the reason why it will be bad for noobs. It's because the vets know how to exploit it to get the best result. Those results being faster training times compared to the nooblets. |
Blindscythe
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:27:00 -
[147]
Personally I see this as a system being setup to aid future decisions by CCP. I doubt very much that it is intended for veteran players and the current skills available.
Sure, respec 100% for combat or 100% for mining, but if they release an expansion 3 months into the 6 month respec time which brings in new omfgwtf skills/mods/ships that require charisma (say) then i'm pretty certain you'll be thanking God that they allowed another respec only 3 months later.
Currently, vets have implants whereas rookies don't. Most attributes are pretty similar if you compare 2 combat characters or 2 mining characters. Ie. Charisma is the dump stat. The difference between them later on comes down to the implants.
With this system, there will STILL be a difference from implants even if everyone decides to max perception, so the training times will NOT be the same for all.
All this respeccing will do is level the field, allowing people to actually progress down seperate paths. I'm slightly worried by the number of vets assuming that everyone will reach 'end-game' (hah) faster this way. Which is puzzling, considering new content floods out from CCP ALL THE TIME.
Just my 0.02 isk!
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Tobin Arkon
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:31:00 -
[148]
Quote:
Because it increases the gap between new and old players while claiming to do the opposite perhaps?
Because it makes bloodlines completely irrelevant?
Ships have a propulsion type and strength that is completely irrelevant, do you see people caring about that? No, it was removed to simplify the game to make it more fun...
Skill points...changing...making the game more fun...
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Yeshua Christ
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:35:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 11/02/2009 10:36:57
Originally by: Digital Solaris I do agree with the OP that this looks like a NGE feature. But it boggles my mind as to why some people are finding it to be contributing factor to dumbing the game down?
It is not going to affect the game in any way than how spent attribute points can be redone twice a year and how much faster skills might finish. Plus if you don't want to use it, then don't.
How is that suddenly a bad thing for anyone playing EVE?
Because it increases the gap between new and old players while claiming to do the opposite perhaps?
Because it makes bloodlines completely irrelevant?
Originally by: Rodj Blake Exactly my point!
You'll be maxing out your Perc when training Perc skills - and so will everyone else but the noobs.
Won't somebody think of the noobs?
What you and everyone who brings this argument to bear fail to realize is that in doing so you completely gimp yourself if you want to train any other skills than you min max attributes. Do you think people are going to just stack skills that use 2 attributes for 6 months at a time and stop playing the game where you train what you need to use or what?
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Deva Blackfire
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.02.11 11:36:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 11/02/2009 11:37:54
Originally by: Tobin Arkon
Quote:
Because it increases the gap between new and old players while claiming to do the opposite perhaps?
Because it makes bloodlines completely irrelevant?
Ships have a propulsion type and strength that is completely irrelevant, do you see people caring about that? No, it was removed to simplify the game to make it more fun...
Actually propulsion type was revelant (in testing). And be happy it isnt now - it was some weird screwed up scrambling (iirc - or maybe it was webbing) mechanism.
Quote:
Skill points...changing...making the game more fun...
Yeh fun for those who will min-max. And more whines from newbs who will be left behind yet again.
Also if its your version of fun, why not make my version: 1bil isk every week out of thin air. Then ill be able to lose faction battleship every week without any problems. FUN!
Quote: Do you think people are going to just stack skills that use 2 attributes for 6 months at a time and stop playing the game where you train what you need to use or what?
Why should i stop playing? Ill stack per/will the 1st thing i do. It will enable me to get most weapon specs to lv5 and max missile skills + get caldari cruiser/BS lv5. At the time ill still fly old ships im skilled for. 70mil SP doesnt instantly vanish when you change attribs, ya know?
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