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Alowishus
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.02.10 19:23:00 -
[61]
Originally by: RisenPhoenix Edited by: RisenPhoenix on 10/02/2009 17:51:08
Originally by: Alowishus
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Marius Deterium One of the big advantages of Eve is to not be tied to some archtype. If you need DPS, get in a DPS ship, if you need tank, get in a tank ship. If you need reps, get in a RR ship.
Attribute respec just enhances this.
Everyone training everything at the same rate removes diversity.
This is a bad thing.
Everyone being Archura Monks or Sebiestor Tinkerers removes diversity from the game. Leveling the playing field puts diversity back in.
a 1 time respec fixes overpowered bloodline problems and young and stupid mistakes no reason for it to be every 6 months that wouldd ruin the games diversity
But don't you see the problem with this? Sensible is focusing on Per/Int/Wil/Mem in that order, as that's how the skills are biased in the game. Which means you'd probably want to respec for Leadership and/or other Mem/Cha focused skills. So what then, you're stuck with a char that can can only efficiently learn 10% of the skills in the game? No, being able to respec more than once makes it so Leadership and other such skills are not such a ****ing punishment. Would have made more sense to remove Charisma from the game entirely? Probably. But then what would you do about all the folks with 26 Charisma points? You'd have to respec them anyway.
This is an elegant solution to the Charisma problem. That's all. |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2009.02.10 19:29:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate Great change is great, quit whining about a feature that enables you to make up for mistakes made in the first 3 mins of playing.
You mean player names? |
Jenny' JoJo
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.10 19:35:00 -
[63]
CCP should go one step further and remove attributes. Have the same training speed but implants give a bonus to training speed only.
This way we get true diversity in the form of skills insted of crazy system of Class baised Achura |
mcnuggetlol
Amarr Outlandish Operations
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Posted - 2009.02.10 19:41:00 -
[64]
EVE has the learning curve of a brick wall. Many people may have put points into stats they thought they needed for their chosen profession but actually didn't, or changed their mind on what it was they wanted to do soon after creation. Attribute respeccing simply allows players to correct the dumbass mistakes they made while they were still learning the ropes. |
Haradgrim
Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2009.02.10 19:57:00 -
[65]
I think a single respec of attributes for any character created before Bloodlines would be fair.... I think this is going a little WOW-ish for my liking... |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.10 19:57:00 -
[66]
I propose the two free for <6mo and either:
A) One respec EVER
or
B) One respec a year
Either would prevent min/max'ing and go a long ways in ensuring that attributes actually mean something.
But I'd deffinantly like a respec, my 14 BASE charisma hurts. |
Angus's Babe
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:01:00 -
[67]
Originally by: mcnuggetlol EVE has the learning curve of a brick wall. Many people may have put points into stats they thought they needed for their chosen profession but actually didn't, or changed their mind on what it was they wanted to do soon after creation. Attribute respeccing simply allows players to correct the dumbass mistakes they made while they were still learning the ropes.
yea i speced for mining but havent mined for 4 years |
Missiles Jesus
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:07:00 -
[68]
Originally by: N'irrti Edited by: N''irrti on 10/02/2009 17:43:45
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Everyone training everything at the same rate removes diversity.
This is a bad thing.
qft
Indeed qft |
Klyde
The Nightshift Rough Necks
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:16:00 -
[69]
I have skills that I trained years ago and are of no use to me but I am still against this respec thing. All the learning we have done whether good or bad make us who we are.
Everyone will be flying around in the same cookie cutter build and this will in fact make this game like WoW in that respect.
CCP, if you really want to change things allow us to train more then one char on an account, most ppl in this game that are here for more then 6 months run two accounts or more so they can work together with each other.
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Malvaroth Vidaru
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:20:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Zephyr Rengate
I can change my talents in wow for a small gold fee.
Ah, but not your class.
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Alowishus
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:32:00 -
[71]
Don't think of this as a new feature, think of it as the best solution to a problem (what I call the Charisma Problem) that they could come up with at this point. I'm sure it's subject to change and future revision, like everything else in Eve.
/makes fart noise |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:42:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Klyde
I have skills that I trained years ago and are of no use to me but I am still against this respec thing. All the learning we have done whether good or bad make us who we are.
Everyone will be flying around in the same cookie cutter build and this will in fact make this game like WoW in that respect.
CCP, if you really want to change things allow us to train more then one char on an account, most ppl in this game that are here for more then 6 months run two accounts or more so they can work together with each other.
It isn't a skill respec. There has not been so much as a whisper from CCP regarding even the most tenuous consideration of ever implementing a skill respec system. I agree with your criticism of skill respeccing but that isn't what's going on, despite more and more people confusing attributes and skills in this debate. |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:47:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Number 86 Edited by: Number 86 on 10/02/2009 17:34:30 OP is slippery slope or red heron......... one of them anyways.
cant actually argue that everyone will do something always
just to let you know, from the pics I have seen there is a cap on each attribute. So you cant really "min/max" like you think.
*edit Just calm down, to be honest I have a feeling the more people will simply take a single respec and go for a more balanced approach (close to equal attribute, maybe leaving charisma a little short). The people whom have really unbalanced attributes are the one's who, to me, are the most likely to benefit from a respec. I went for a very balanced attribute spread on both my characters and I honestly doubt whether I will ever respec.
If one is to attempt to look smart by claiming that the OP is logical fallacy, one might at least understand them well enough to know which one it is and one should also be able to recall the correct name for the fallacy....it is the "Red Herring" not the Red Heron ^^.
I believe the fallacy you allude to is "the slippery slope" or "thin end of the wedge", but in this case I believe the OP to have a valid argument based on past behavior of the player base. If I have learned one thing in my short EvE life it is this...
If a feature of the game can be used in a way other than than intended by the devs, it will be, and often. |
Insa Rexion
Minmatar M3T4LH34DZ
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:54:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Karash Amerius Everyone seems to love this...but I really have a gut feeling that CCP is 'jumping the shark' here. If CHA is such a problem, why not just come out with more CHA based skills/gameplay design? Seems like giving up on that is bad form.
Choices should always have consequences...its the core design element in Eve.
(This coming from a very high CHA / WP char...that is PVP based )
this really... while we all discuss how often or whether we should be able to respec, this guy comes out with the PROPER solution.
1 respec only and better CHA based skills....gets my vote
well mannered a**h*** |
Klyde
The Nightshift Rough Necks
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:57:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Klyde on 10/02/2009 20:58:17
ah understand now, well, if they reset attribs and allow us to put say chrisma into others, then there are ppl with the base of 4 or so, plus the skill to take it up another 5, then the advanced to take it up another 5...thats 14 points to put into other attribs (not including the bonus points you get at diff numbers and of course there are those that are chrisma heavy as main with much more points into them at base)...
while it sounds great it certainly would change the speed ppl train and would be over powered to what we are used to. It would have way to much of an impact to the game today. Perhaps if it was a partial restore of attribes...but then you will have those argue about time spent training the skills to max it out and want them back as well...
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shuckstar
Gallente Hauling hogs
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:01:00 -
[76]
Originally by: iudex But being able to redistribute every 6 months changes the whole skill training pattern, which has been a successful core feature of Eve for over 5 years. Now people will max one side for 6 months and then the other in the next 6 months. Everyone will be training everything at maximum speed and efficiency, no diffrence between the industrialist and the combat specialised pilot.
Cant wait for this tbh
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Elise Randolph
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:04:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Everyone training everything at the same rate removes diversity.
This is a bad thing.
What is the rationale behind this statement? Let's say I started EVE wanting to build things, and then decided that I liked killing things instead. Would I (a) continue building things because I have really high intelligence and memory or (b) spend an extra 15 days over six months training the same FOTM as everyone else. I, along with any rational being, would go with option (b).
The only difference with attribute redistribution is that I don't get punished for stupidly pigeon-holing myself in the first 20 seconds of the game.
Electronics, Engineering take Intelligence and Memory Most Weapon skills take Willpower and Perception Drones take Memory and Perception Navigation takes Intelligence and Perception
So by OPs logic I'm going to max out Int and Mem to get my core skills up for six months, then I'm going to max out Will and Perc to max my gunnery skills and ship skills, then I'll up Mem, Int, and Perc to get the drone skills and navigation skills - and then after 18 months I'm spec'd out just how I want! I can finally play EVE now! Oh, ****, the stuff I spec'd out for now isn't as good as it was a year and a half ago :(
What you'll actually see is: 70% of people will jack Charisma down and balance the rest of their stats out, 14.9% of fighters will re-spec their chars to build and 14.9% of builders will re-spec their chars to fight, and .2% of low-Charisma Achura will ungimp their Charisma to do leadership skills.
tl;dr: This won't change people's actions, it'll just let them do it a bit faster and feel at ease for not having screwed up in their first 20 seconds. ----------
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:10:00 -
[78]
attribute respect should be available to everyone
Once.
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sirovai
Amarr Modern-Warfare
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:17:00 -
[79]
Keep attribute respec please for the love of God and all that is holy. Even if its just once a year!
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Lord Berk
Amarr Ammatar Free Corps
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:18:00 -
[80]
I agree with Rodj and the OP.
Although, this proposed change would greatly benefit one of my characters - for the greater good of the game it must not go through.
This opens a huge can of worms of respeccing and min-maxing. We've all made mistakes in character creation, that's part of the allure of EvE, we love it for being harsh. This is a game that rewards research, planning, patience and execution. Attribute respeccing has no place in the rules we as players currently abide by and begins the game's journey into catering to the WoW crowd.
An industrialist is primarily always an industrialist, as is a combat fighter, as is a CEO. They can do other stuff but it takes them longer. This was the original concept and it was brilliant.
Take a look at an MMO where this can done to the extreme - Guild Wars. Walk into a town, respec whatever you want for free. This takes away a sense of WHO YOU ARE as a character. Your name is irrelevant, all that matters is your build and how it benefits your group.
To also to appeal to CCP's business side, people stay in MMO's because they like their character. Like RL, getting through the hard stuff builds character and makes the end goal that much sweeter.
I'll say this again, we LIKE characters.
We hit Amarr and see the Veldnaught and know things are as they should be. The U'K's neverending war with the Empire, CVA's protection of Providence, the huge power blocs in 0.0, the list goes on. Yes, these things evolve, they change, but they do so naturally and as a result of our actions.
If we are able to respec attributes, in order to remain competitive, this is something everyone must do. If you do not, eventually you will fall behind those who do, because you believe your character is your character, not just a set of numbers.
o7 OP for standing up.
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Fivefold Forgefire
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:34:00 -
[81]
It's a slippery slope folks, now it's just harmless happy attribute respecs, next thing you know, CCP will allow people to marry animals and outlaw the bible! Just say no! |
Lady Killjoy
Gallente The Social Club The Sovereign Consortium
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:35:00 -
[82]
Make it a year cooldown. And maybe limited to twice in a lifetime
Solved |
michaelfeb16
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:52:00 -
[83]
Throwing my support for the OP. Respec every six months is a terrible idea. If this is their plan, they might as well remove attributes and give us all a steady SP/hour rate. I support a one time respec after three months. |
5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.02.10 21:57:00 -
[84]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 10/02/2009 21:57:11
I suppose the attribute respec sucks for me too when I think about it.
I balanced my attribs as perfectly as I could and was more then happy with them.
Now I'm going to have another chore to do every 6 months.
Take turns in powarbloking two-three attribs every chance to stay competitive with the rest of the playerbase that's going to be doing the same, when my attribs were perfectly fine before this patch was coming along.
Yeah, thx for that CCP. |
Khaan Tar
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:01:00 -
[85]
So what happened to adopt or die? I guess that only counts when you're at an advantage. I like many others would like to get rid of some unwanted charisma I picked up. |
Yelan Zhou
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:06:00 -
[86]
I completly agree with the OP.
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Johnnyan
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:41:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Johnnyan on 10/02/2009 22:44:46 I too do not agree with all this every six months attributes respec. I dont really care for all those other MMOs but EVE tries to be realistic at some level. There is no freaking explanation of turning 5 memory into 10 memory and after six months doing the opposite thing, for god sake, just think about it, it makes no sense. I agree you should be able to "correct" your starting attributes, lets say once or twice (because most of us didnt really understood them when we started), but every six months ?
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Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:49:00 -
[88]
This is the first step onto the slippery slope so many originally good or not to bad MMOGs (UO, Starwars, etc) died on: Dumbing down the game.
I don't like that.
Juwi Kotch
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:56:00 -
[89]
Edited by: bff Jill on 10/02/2009 22:56:23
Originally by: Khaan Tar So what happened to adopt or die? I guess that only counts when you're at an advantage. I like many others would like to get rid of some unwanted charisma I picked up.
Nobody is saying you shouldnt get a respec.
We are saying you should not get a respec every 6 months.
Dont you understand? Your charisma, your atributes, they wont matter anymore! With infinite respecs you just respec to stack one set of atributes every 6 months and train only skills that coraspond to those attributes! Everyone will be training at maximum speed with every skill. Theres no point to even have atributes anymore.
In effect all these infinite respecs will do is LIMIT your choices because you will now be discouraged from training a skill if its atributes are currently not the ones you have maxed out.
One respec = helps make the game nicer Infinity respecs = just makes the game more tedious by forcing you to plan your skill training around which attributes you will have maxed at what time.
Its a bad idea and the only people who think otherwise do not have the experience/perception to understand how this will change the entire way people train their characters, to somthing thats worse than it is now. ESPECIALLY for new players!!
ive not played mmos in the past after finding out they had stupidly tedious training systems. The screwy kind where you have to do everything in a certain order else your character gets gimped. And that is exactly what this will turn eve into.
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Wu Jiaqiu
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:03:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Wu Jiaqiu on 10/02/2009 23:05:44 I messed up a while ago with my training points, I wouldnt mind being able to change the attributes. Once every 6 months is bad, once a year or just once is good.
EDIT: Changed my mind
Maybe two respecs per character, and one year cooldown in between.
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