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Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.08.09 21:30:00 - [31] Originally by: Kahega Amielden hint: Don't salvage Serpentis missions. They suck. So do Guristas. Are the Serpentis Battleships being stingy with the armor plates??
Marguerite Antiki	Posted - 2009.08.09 21:41:00 - [32] Originally by: Soliscout believe me you do not want the system to be changed....otherwise you could buy a new cnr/golem/wtfcarebearmobile every two days since any decent ninja salvager just wants you to agress him, so he can blow you to pieces also posting in a rare ninja salvage whine So true, I salvage all the time from other peoples missions. I do get some lip service, sometimes I dont. I do however get people constantly locking me up. Which makes me wonder, are they really going to shoot a frig worth peanuts over their T2 baby (and i know what you have as my ship scanner shows you have some sweet stuff worth popping). Therefore, dont change the rules or else we may begin to see a high turn over of battleships and battlecruisers PvE players and end up with more tears on the forums.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.08.09 21:43:00 - [33] Quote: Are the Serpentis Battleships being stingy with the armor plates?? Serpentis ships almost never give armor plates...Not anywhere remotely close to the amount Sansha/Blood give. Even Guristas are better then serpentis...at least they give ward consoles which are 90K each.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.08.09 22:43:00 - [34] I'm pleased to report that there is now a significant proportion of ninja salvagers in Emolgranlan! I ran three missions yesterday and each one was visited by ninja salvagers before I'd even cleared the first room. [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC]
Mova B	Posted - 2009.08.09 23:00:00 - [35] Originally by: Treyah They should be kill worthy, just as if they were stealing the loot in the cans. It's the same thing, if you prohibit players from looting another person's can - then the salvage should count too. Quit being lazy and change the code please - or else let me rob from other people's cans with only a sec hit. Agree. Why? Because, take a look who much you make ISK by doing lvl4 missions without salvage... Better off mining with pimped hulk character...
Naomi Noxx	Posted - 2009.08.10 01:04:00 - [36] GMs On Salvage CCP has spoken. Salvage is not stealing. ItÆs not an exploit. ItÆs an intended mini-profession: Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
Kata Dakini Amarr Flatiron Academy	Posted - 2009.08.10 01:35:00 - [37] Maybe this "intended mechanic" has nothing to do with ninja salvaging. Rather, CCP wants players to be allowed to salvage period. If only the owner of the loot could salvage the wreck, there would be much less salvage to be found (assuming similar drop amounts). The purpose is not that CCP wants people to be salvagers, but rather CCP wants someone to salvage the wrecks. Ambiguously clear? For more enjoyment and greater efficiency, consumption is being standardized.
Willy Pete Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.10 03:11:00 - [38] Originally by: Yahweh Graf honestly, I run my own lvl 4's with alt. being bored one day I tried out the ninja thing just for lol's and see how much one could actually get. so, i go to motsu. scan and bm with helios. then, change ships to fast t1 frig fitted all highs with salvagers mid sb and ab. only salvaging the med. and large wrecks. still couldn't get anywhere near what i could get isk wise running 4's of my own. had lots of fun doing it though. cause you know it drives most carebears CRAZY. This guy gets ninja salvagers. We aren't about isk per hour. (But the occasional MR pinata sure is fun.)
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.08.10 03:35:00 - [39] <sarcasm>If I start mining in an asteroid belt first, I should get kill rights on anyone else that mines there. I warped there and started mining first, so it's all mine! Anyone else that warps in after me is lazy and should find their own asteroid belt instead of stealing my ore!</sarcasm>
Kyra Felann Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies	Posted - 2009.08.10 03:38:00 - [40] Originally by: Marguerite Antiki I do get some lip service, sometimes I dont. I think you don't understand what "lip service" means.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.08.10 05:23:00 - [41] OP, stop missioning in major hubs. There are plenty of other excellent agents available that don't have 200 people in system.
danyalsun	Posted - 2009.08.10 05:56:00 - [42] Why not get someone from your corp to follow you and they do the salvaging and looting? Within the corp im in, it seems someone will always tag along on someone else's mission and salvage or help out if needed.
Taua Roqa Minmatar junQtion	Posted - 2009.08.10 06:38:00 - [43] Originally by: Diggles Darkreign Originally by: Taua Roqa everytime someone makes a thread like this someone reads it and their eyes glaze over, and BAM another ninja salvager is born. it's like some kind of memetic virus with it's own breeding cycle; someone ninjas someones mission, mission runner QQs on forum, unsuspecting newb is infected by the tears, he ninjas someones mission, ...... You nailed it, thats how I got started! Why run my own lvl 4's when I can harvest carebear tears, roleplay LOL's and make money! damn right [
Elmo Vormar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2009.08.10 06:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Treyah They should be kill worthy, just as if they were stealing the loot in the cans. It's the same thing, if you prohibit players from looting another person's can - then the salvage should count too. Quit being lazy and change the code please - or else let me rob from other people's cans with only a sec hit. well salvage the wrecks right away then or ask a friend to tag along to salvage. If i see a mission runner with a dedicated salalvage friend with him i dont even bother to salvage his wrecks cause i wont make enough profit in the time i spend chasing wrecks. So stop beeing lazy yourself and make some friends
DonDrakos	Posted - 2009.08.10 10:39:00 - [45] Originally by: Kyra Felann <sarcasm>If I start mining in an asteroid belt first, I should get kill rights on anyone else that mines there. I warped there and started mining first, so it's all mine! Anyone else that warps in after me is lazy and should find their own asteroid belt instead of stealing my ore!</sarcasm> sarcasm fail
Galmarr Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.10 10:39:00 - [46] I love these threads. SN gets at least 5 or more new recruits per week. Salvage ops went from 1 scheduled per week to 2, and a few impromtu ops in between, expanded to other systems with WH ops as well. Kahega, if your reading this, perhaps we can post total isk per month from salvage ops. And total barrels of tears per hour.
Miss'ile Bunny	Posted - 2009.08.10 10:50:00 - [47] My main flies lvl 4 missions and doesn't salvage at all. Can't be bothered. It's boring. OK, the arguement is that I am missing out on millions of isk, but the bounties alone are worth it and I can do about 5 missions in an evening. I just like to shoot things. If a ninja salvager came into one of my missions, I would let them get on with it. Not a problem. However, I don't like certain tactics used. A lot of so called salvagers are anything but. They tend to fly small ships and keep bumping the mission runners ship. Not good if they have all the aggro and need to warp asap. That is very low in my book.
Herpes Sweatrash	Posted - 2009.08.10 11:27:00 - [48] I don't really mind ninja salvagers because I tend to just grab whatever is in range of my dominix. I like to send out warrior IIs and pop wrecks just as the ninja gets in salvage range or send out my ogres to a distant BS (ninja will follow) then just before it pops change target to a BS far off in the opposite direction. When the ninja starts rage bumping me (petition lol) I'll drop a can with some ammo and junk so he doesn't leave empty handed.
Salliene Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.10 15:20:00 - [49] Edited by: Salliene on 10/08/2009 15:21:44 Originally by: Bazuka Ninja salvaging gives noobs a chance to salvage wrecks of rats they can`t even kill. It gives a week old nooblet the best ISK income he can possibly hope for with little to no effort. So every nooblet learns this and instead of playing the game they just go salvage wrecks and miss on so many better features and options this game offers. How is this "working as intended"again? Where is the risk vs.reward or time-invested vs reward here? How did this nooblet deserve to make a lot of ISK after few days of playing? It IS a failed game mechanic that caters to the average-insta graphitication-lazy-Joe gamer of today and everyone knows it. CCP lets it be because it`s only a minor annoyance for mission runners so they don`t whine in big enough numbers that warrants a game mechanic change. This is a total fail argument. No true newbie can be successfully and lucratively ninja salvaging in a week unless their hand is being held and they are doing some intensive research. Skills take time to learn, probing takes practice, and new player ships are slow as hell until their nav and piloting skills get decent. We had a brand new player in the alliance channel this week starting off his career as a ninja salvager. He had never played EVE before, was not someones alt. He was brand new to the game and was not making a crap load of money. In fact after his first five missions that he had scanned down (and remember it was taking 15-20 minutes for him to scan down a mission cause of his skills) he was still in the red cause he lost a ship.
FireT	Posted - 2009.08.10 16:04:00 - [50] Originally by: Kyra Felann <sarcasm>If I start mining in an asteroid belt first, I should get kill rights on anyone else that mines there. I warped there and started mining first, so it's all mine! Anyone else that warps in after me is lazy and should find their own asteroid belt instead of stealing my ore!</sarcasm> Serious question: can we implement this too? I cna just imagine the sky rocketing ore / mineral prices. Because all you would have is people sit infront of their computers and await the returning server after maintanance. Then they just fly into the roid belts and nibble on them. All they then have to do is camp belts. Now make those things corp / alliance ops and BAM you own entire systems full of roids. Now make that available for ice belts too and suddenly ice / fuel is worth more than titants. Yes please impliment this. I want to own my own ice belt.
Boink'urr Minmatar Wasserette De Tarthorst	Posted - 2009.08.10 17:01:00 - [51] All fine and dandy. But what i don't understand is this: Why is the NPC's hull salvage free of any ownership, but the modules/cargo/drones that survived the bang are owned by the shooter? /me is looking... confused.
Izztyrr Maemtor Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.10 17:34:00 - [52] Originally by: Boink'urr All fine and dandy. But what i don't understand is this: Why is the NPC's hull salvage free of any ownership, but the modules/cargo/drones that survived the bang are owned by the shooter? /me is looking... confused. Good point Sir. It should all be free of ownership. Then there would be no confusion.
THE L0CK	Posted - 2009.08.10 18:50:00 - [53] Edited by: THE L0CK on 10/08/2009 18:52:15 Originally by: Breaker77 Edited by: Breaker77 on 09/08/2009 19:39:11 I agree salvaging should flag them to the mission running and here is why: 1. Ninja steals salvage 2. Mission runner shoots ninja 3. 10 of Ninjas corpmates warp in and blow up a multibillion ISK faction fitted CNR/Golem/insert other expensive ship 4. Ninja then salvages that wreck and loots the faction mods that survived. 5. Mission runner goes crying on the forums about how salvaging shouldn't flag anyone as a criminal. It's a win-win situation for the Mission runners and the ninjas. The mission runners get to protect their salvage and the ninjas get to make insane ISK from dropped faction mods / T2 salvage. edit: spelling Dude you totally **ed that up 1. Ninja Salvages unclaimed salvage 2. Mission runner shoots unflagged ninja 3. Concorde shoots mission runner 4. Ninja then salvages that wreck and loots the faction mods that survived while mission runner rage logs 5. Mission runner goes crying on the forums about how salvaging should flag you as a criminal. Or 1. Ninja steals loot from the wreck or can hoping for some pvp action. 2. Mission runner leaves mission and cancels it taking a standings hit. 3. Mission runner runs to forums and cries about ebil pirates. Edit: btw Taua is right. I read these threads about ninja's salvagers time and time again and I became one. LEt it be known that it is your fault op. Originally by:** Whitehound If I think, but I do not.
Boink'urr Minmatar Wasserette De Tarthorst	Posted - 2009.08.10 19:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor Originally by: Boink'urr All fine and dandy. But what i don't understand is this: Why is the NPC's hull salvage free of any ownership, but the modules/cargo/drones that survived the bang are owned by the shooter? /me is looking... confused. Good point Sir. It should all be free of ownership. Then there would be no confusion. Exactly my point. Either make it all owned by the mission runner or make it all free to take. Right now it leads to a lot of consfusion and players feeling robbed only due to the lack of logic and consistency in the design of this feature.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.08.10 19:54:00 - [55] Originally by: Boink'urr Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor Originally by: Boink'urr All fine and dandy. But what i don't understand is this: Why is the NPC's hull salvage free of any ownership, but the modules/cargo/drones that survived the bang are owned by the shooter? /me is looking... confused. Good point Sir. It should all be free of ownership. Then there would be no confusion. Exactly my point. Either make it all owned by the mission runner or make it all free to take. Right now it leads to a lot of consfusion and players feeling robbed only due to the lack of logic and consistency in the design of this feature. It isn't confusing at all. If someone takes ur loot, they turn flashy red indicating to someone who doesn't know what the rules are that they are allowed to shoot the person. If someone salvages the wrecks, they don't turn flashy red, so you can't shoot.
Boink'urr Minmatar Wasserette De Tarthorst	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:04:00 - [56] Originally by: g0ggalor Originally by: Boink'urr Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor Originally by: Boink'urr All fine and dandy. But what i don't understand is this: Why is the NPC's hull salvage free of any ownership, but the modules/cargo/drones that survived the bang are owned by the shooter? /me is looking... confused. Good point Sir. It should all be free of ownership. Then there would be no confusion. Exactly my point. Either make it all owned by the mission runner or make it all free to take. Right now it leads to a lot of consfusion and players feeling robbed only due to the lack of logic and consistency in the design of this feature. It isn't confusing at all. If someone takes ur loot, they turn flashy red indicating to someone who doesn't know what the rules are that they are allowed to shoot the person. If someone salvages the wrecks, they don't turn flashy red, so you can't shoot. Next!
vondronage Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:16:00 - [57] I went into low-sec with my new Dominix yesterday to try out mining Kernite for the first time and I was pinned down and lost my Domi in less than 5 minutes after I got there. You know what the pilot said ? "I could have podded you, just be glad I didn't" So, back to using my Myrm to go around taking any salvage I can find for awhile and do you know what I have to say to you salvage whiners ? Just be glad I can't use a tractor beam on the wrecks you make.
Gokekijin	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:35:00 - [58] I really don't understand why this becomes such a big sticking point. Easiest thing to do is get over it and roll on. Barring that, if it really bothers you that much that somone is in your mission salvaging, just shoot the money. pretty much anything but torps cycles faster than a salvager, so you just start mushing wrecks until they get bored and leave. I personally keep one rail out of group for this purpose. It's not mine, but if i can't have it, no one can, muahhahahahaha.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.08.10 21:06:00 - [59] Originally by: Gavin DeVries To the OP: You're better off with the current system, believe me. A fair chunk of the ninja salvagers are doing the same thing can flippers do, they're hoping to provoke a legal fight. In the current system, the only way the mission runner can legally shoot the ninja salvager is if the salvager steals loot from one of the wrecks the mission runner created. You know what the stupidest thing a mission runner can do if the salvager turns blinky red is? You guessed it: shoot the looter. Yawn What poo. This assumes that the bulk of mission runners are boring carebears who know nothing rather than what they really are - alts of some 0.0 PvPer making ISK to replace lost ships. They shoot the little frig and kill it and warp off. When the big mean ninja comes back he finds himself facing off against a proper PvP fit ship just waiting to gank him. So say the kill boards of the ninjas at any rate, but don't take my word for it, they're easy to find and read yourself. Right now, the entire aggro/not aggro is in the hands of the mission invaders. Given that very very few of them ever aggro and that they can do so easily, the myth of the fearsome PvP ninja is pretty much just that. I'm sure there are some, as they're a big group, but it's a small minority at best based on their most common behaviour. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Wa'roun Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.08.11 00:54:00 - [60] It has been said the devs made it this way because supposedly maritime law states that a ship's cargo belongs to the owner but the hull can be salvaged by any salvaging company. Join channel: "Eve University" or read here

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