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Bazuka	Posted - 2009.08.15 09:47:00 - [151] Apoc 1.5 is Introducing the Ninja`s wet dream - SALVAGER III. GET YOUR ORDERS NOW!!! ___________ CareMyBear!
Mel Lifera	Posted - 2009.08.15 13:43:00 - [152] Edited by: Mel Lifera on 15/08/2009 13:43:19 Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom b) Taking advantage of a glitch in the game that is extremely immersion breaking. A glitch? That's like saying the Invincibility Star is a "glitch" in Super Mario Bros; to wit: it's not. The people who made the game have said it's not. We're doing what we're supposed to be doing. I would enjoy an explanation as to how encountering other players in a MMO game is immersion-breaking, though.
Hiedi Jarret	Posted - 2009.08.15 18:37:00 - [153] Edited by: Hiedi Jarret on 15/08/2009 18:40:00 Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom I dislike them because they're: a) Irritating other players as a primary mode of play and b) Taking advantage of a glitch in the game that is extremely immersion breaking. Mostly the second. At least in my case. A) You assume that all salvage ninja do what they do because they irritate people. Or at least primarily because of its irritating quality. This, however, is an untenable conclusion. Yes, there are some that may ninja just to annoy MR's (as evidenced by some of the posts in this thread). But, there are many people who do it as a means to garner ISK with low level skills and could care less about the emotional state of the MR. I highly recommend it to newbs who need cash quickly for ships/mods/implants. Also, if you were correct in your assesment of motivation, ninjas would cease to exist if MR's stopped reacting. Much like how children will stop acting out if you do not give them the satisfaction of reaction. As i doubt that all ninja salvaging would cease if MRs stopped caring, then it seems the motivation you attribute to the action is false....unless you meant something completely different and just fail to communicate effectively.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.08.15 18:48:00 - [154] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 15/08/2009 18:49:58 The problem with the "they just do it to ** people off" argument is... 1) Not all of us do it for that reason. Ninjaing is far more fun than missions, and is a good income. 2) NO REASONABLE PERSON should get **ed off. You are going to make slightly less internet space money than you would if the ninja was not there. I've lost tens of millions of ISK at once to ship/pod loss and to this date I've yet to get angry over any of it. The reason we are amused when missionrunners lash out is because it's so outlandishly hilarious seeing someone throw a temper tantrum over it. Ever seen The Tourettes Guy? It's like that
Bazuka	Posted - 2009.08.15 20:55:00 - [155] I heard that Ninjas get a half-boner just from looking at salvagers in their hangar. Is this true? Can any Ninja confirm this? ___________ CareMyBear!
JordanParey Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.08.16 01:31:00 - [156] Originally by: Bazuka I heard that Ninjas get a half-boner just from looking at salvagers in their hangar. Is this true? Can any Ninja confirm this? confirming I get a chubby when I have 80 million in salvage in my Firetail's cargo.
Bazuka	Posted - 2009.08.16 01:50:00 - [157] Originally by: JordanParey Originally by: Bazuka I heard that Ninjas get a half-boner just from looking at salvagers in their hangar. Is this true? Can any Ninja confirm this? confirming I get a chubby when I have 80 million in salvage in my Firetail's cargo. The question was how do you feel about the Salvager module. You take a look at Salvager I and? Chubby? Y/N/Mby? ___________ CareMyBear!
Willy Pete Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.16 02:07:00 - [158] Originally by: Bazuka Originally by: JordanParey Originally by: Bazuka I heard that Ninjas get a half-boner just from looking at salvagers in their hangar. Is this true? Can any Ninja confirm this? confirming I get a chubby when I have 80 million in salvage in my Firetail's cargo. The question was how do you feel about the Salvager module. You take a look at Salvager I and? Chubby? Y/N/Mby? Slavger Is make me warm, Salvager IIs make me chubby, the thought of Salvager IIIs make me hard. Real hard
Bazuka	Posted - 2009.08.16 02:23:00 - [159] Originally by: Willy Pete Originally by: Bazuka Originally by: JordanParey Originally by: Bazuka I heard that Ninjas get a half-boner just from looking at salvagers in their hangar. Is this true? Can any Ninja confirm this? confirming I get a chubby when I have 80 million in salvage in my Firetail's cargo. The question was how do you feel about the Salvager module. You take a look at Salvager I and? Chubby? Y/N/Mby? Slavger Is make me warm, Salvager IIs make me chubby, the thought of Salvager IIIs make me hard. Real hard Good. You might be interested in my offer then. I have an uniqe kind of a Salvager. It`s a "storyline" Salvager and it`s one of a kind, there for I can`t really sell it, but I can rent it. It performs much better then any Salvager you know. And it`s big. I mean really really big. Huge. Monster huge. Would you be interested in renting the services of my Salvager? You wont be disapointed I guarantee. ___________ CareMyBear!
HottyChick	Posted - 2009.08.16 12:40:00 - [160] If I spend isk and MY time to kill a rat than its wreck belong to ME ONLY. Wat ccp say about STEALING salvage is simply one big B.....T. Ppl who steal salvage are worthless scams, lazy and disgusting bastards. And till ccp APROVE this there isnt much we can do about it. If it happens to me I just blow all the wrecks and using ECCM helps too.
Mel Lifera	Posted - 2009.08.16 13:16:00 - [161] Originally by: HottyChick Wat ccp say about STEALING salvage is simply one big B.....T. What ccp say about HARVESTING salvage is the Holy Word of God. Your approval is unnecessary.
Bazuka	Posted - 2009.08.16 16:26:00 - [162] Originally by: HottyChick If I spend isk and MY time to kill a rat than its wreck belong to ME ONLY. Wat ccp say about STEALING salvage is simply one big B.....T. Ppl who steal salvage are worthless scams, lazy and disgusting bastards. Sometimes I agree with those statements, sometimes I don`t. Sometimes i like Ninja`s atitude, sometimes I think they act too c.ocky on forums and deserve some biatch slaping. My mood usually depends on the weather outside and the quality of my coffee. ___________ CareMyBear!
THE L0CK	Posted - 2009.08.16 21:08:00 - [163] Originally by: Bazuka Originally by: HottyChick If I spend isk and MY time to kill a rat than its wreck belong to ME ONLY. Wat ccp say about STEALING salvage is simply one big B.....T. Ppl who steal salvage are worthless scams, lazy and disgusting bastards. Sometimes I agree with those statements, sometimes I don`t. Sometimes i like Ninja`s atitude, sometimes I think they act too c.ocky on forums and deserve some biatch slaping. My mood usually depends on the weather outside and the quality of my coffee. Only Mocha lattes for you sir, I'll get it right away. Originally by: Whitehound If I think, but I do not.
Neckbeard Griefmonger	Posted - 2009.08.16 21:26:00 - [164] Originally by: HottyChick If I spend isk and MY time to kill a rat than its wreck belong to ME ONLY. Wat ccp say about STEALING salvage is simply one big B.....T. Ppl who steal salvage are worthless scams, lazy and disgusting bastards. And till ccp APROVE this there isnt much we can do about it. If it happens to me I just blow all the wrecks and using ECCM helps too. Sigh, the rules are quite clear on this. The wreck belongs to no one. Once it is salvaged, then the salvaged materials belong to the person who did the salvaging. CCP has stated over and over in response to MR's complaints of ninjas, the mechanics are working as intended. If you want to play a single player game, I suggest homeworld. EVE is a MMO, and you have to deal with others whether you want to or not.
Bazuka	Posted - 2009.08.16 22:51:00 - [165] I`m one proud fckin` carebear that of course does L4s all the time,and if you`ve read some of my long melodramatic posts in general you`d know that I`m anti-griefer kind of a dude that would light his cigarettes with ISK if I knew that would annoy a griefer or two, BUT... on this issue I must side with the Ninja-jitsu. Some reasons: 1. Even though it looks like ninja salvaging does extracts a tear or two I don`t consider it griefing, it doesnt qualify. Maybe qualifies as annoyance but that`s it. And i think you really need to be some ultra uptight arrogant ***** to think that every pixel in your mission belongs to you just because you pressed F1 couple of times. So even a Kumbaya -heal the world- give peace a chance- type of a dude like me can see the appeal of couple of missioner tears. 2. I`m just gonna guess that players willing to shed a tear for this are very few. If that`s true, for a ninja that only values tears this means he needs to spend considerable game time in order to loot a tear. So the time investment and effort is already there so you can`t call them lazy. 3. Suddenly Ninjas is one of those cool names you wish you came up with yourself. Every time I read it makes me smile, and laughing is good for ya. ___________ CareMyBear!
Izztyrr Maemtor Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.17 00:37:00 - [166] Originally by: Bazuka 2. I`m just gonna guess that players willing to shed a tear for this are very few. This is true and there seems to be less and less tears as time passes. Mission runners are starting to ignore me altogether. (How dare they?!) Plus I'm seeing more and more groups in missions with dedicated salvagers. We get into these races for salvage. Sometimes I get the impression that they're having as more fun then me. Have to tip my hat to those people. They're playing the game the right way.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2009.08.17 01:00:00 - [167] Edited by: Terranid Meester on 17/08/2009 00:59:56 Originally by: Treyah Im dumb Originally by: stankpod Me too Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom So am I
4KICKS Trap and Kill inc.	Posted - 2009.08.17 03:12:00 - [168] I got tears today!!! OMG tears!! He started shooting his wrecks till there were none. i salveged wat i could and he left.He turned in the mission and i looted every thing :)Then he called me really bad names!
Marguerite Antiki	Posted - 2009.08.17 03:19:00 - [169] Originally by: 4KICKS I got tears today!!! OMG tears!! He started shooting his wrecks till there were none. i salveged wat i could and he left.He turned in the mission and i looted every thing :)Then he called me really bad names! Had that also - been told they would Deathray my Family, hunt me down etc etc. I even had one go as far as sending me an evemail advising that they are going to wardec me if I didnt stop. Pity - the wardec never happened :(
Vorsmyth	Posted - 2009.08.17 03:58:00 - [170] I am a mission runner and the only change I would like to see is to have it make them blinky red just like can fliping. This would be a huge boon to mission runners as it would do several things. 1. Kill off stupid runners and incrase the demand for faction modules and thus their price. 2. Reward mission runners who fit real amounts of gank on their setup, I fly a double target painter with rigor rig setup and I 2 shot any ninja that goes blinky. Just do like low sec and pre align to a safe spot no matter what you are doing. For every runner who decides that perma boosting there XL raven steup is good god kills a kitten and this would save kittens. 3. Feel far more consistant for rules application. Either make + wreck no ones property or loot + wreck the mission runners property, this 50/50 just feels odd. I have no problem with folks that go ninja any more than I do with those that go pirate. They have chosen a different way to enjoy the game and as a carebear I should just do what I can to beat them without being stupid. I would simply like the same chance to take a shot or not that a miner has.
Marguerite Antiki	Posted - 2009.08.17 04:11:00 - [171] Originally by: Vorsmyth I am a mission runner and the only change I would like to see is to have it make them blinky red just like can fliping. This would be a huge boon to mission runners as it would do several things. 1. Kill off stupid runners and incrase the demand for faction modules and thus their price. 2. Reward mission runners who fit real amounts of gank on their setup, I fly a double target painter with rigor rig setup and I 2 shot any ninja that goes blinky. Just do like low sec and pre align to a safe spot no matter what you are doing. For every runner who decides that perma boosting there XL raven steup is good god kills a kitten and this would save kittens. 3. Feel far more consistant for rules application. Either make + wreck no ones property or loot + wreck the mission runners property, this 50/50 just feels odd. I have no problem with folks that go ninja any more than I do with those that go pirate. They have chosen a different way to enjoy the game and as a carebear I should just do what I can to beat them without being stupid. I would simply like the same chance to take a shot or not that a miner has. OH PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE Please impliment this just for a day. As I would love to go flashy red and get shot at. I go as far as taking select items from cans while the MR is there yet they dont do a thing. Maybe its cause I have done a ship scan - checked out their ship; weighed up what I need and then prepped a better PvP ship for their PvE tank. And how I know this, I was once a MR in a mission, some one grabbed a can of mine and looted it, I proceeded to punch holes in their ship only to have them warp off / come back and Energy neut me, web me, scram me, and then blow holes in me along with the remaining NPCs in the mission. Was a great fisting up my ass that I didnt expect.
Valixithor Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.17 11:23:00 - [172] Software Engineer CCP Prism X: ôBefore the salvage enters those containers [your cargo-hold / hangar] it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence itÆs not stealing.ö By the same token, couldn't you also say "Before the (loot dropped by NPC wrecks) enters those containers [your cargo-hold / hangar] it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence itÆs not stealing." Just for the record, I'm merely pointing this out. I'm all for ninja salvagers doing what they please. If it forces missions runners to spread out into less populated areas, that's a good thing IMO. It will find a balance. If you don't like it, have a suicide gank alt on standby. Blow up the wrecks. Salvage as you go. Move somewhere else. Wardec the ninja salvager. You have options people. (I guess your options also include whining but there we go) Originally by: Yoravian If by 'you guys are pretty nasty' you mean 'you guys are sure good at explaining game mechanics to guys like me', then yes. Yes we are.
Galmarr Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.17 11:51:00 - [173] Keep it coming! What, 5 more recriuts in one day!?! Lets bump this baby!
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.08.17 13:40:00 - [174] Let's hear it for the TEARS team :) And while you're here, dear reader, please take the time to read Kahega's Ninja Salvaging Guide. For those of you who need to be spoon fed: Motsu, Dodixie, Emolgranlan, Sasoutikh. Here's to health and prosperity! [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC]
Kezzle	Posted - 2009.08.17 14:42:00 - [175] Originally by: Valixithor By the same token, couldn't you also say "Before the (loot dropped by NPC wrecks) enters those containers [your cargo-hold / hangar] it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence itÆs not stealing." Not currently, no, since the serverc code does recognise that the wreck-creator owns the loot before it hits the inside of their cargo hold. Would it ba a trivial programming change? Possibly. Quote: Just for the record, I'm merely pointing this out. Ditto. Though I have to agree that the current loot/salvage/wreck shooting rights assignment is a bit screwy, and it should all be one thing or another.
JCache Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.17 15:04:00 - [176] Originally by: Valixithor Software Engineer CCP Prism X: ôBefore the salvage enters those containers [your cargo-hold / hangar] it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence itÆs not stealing.ö By the same token, couldn't you also say "Before the (loot dropped by NPC wrecks) enters those containers [your cargo-hold / hangar] it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence itÆs not stealing." The logic is more like, someone put effort into it, so the reward is his. So if you kill the rat the loot is yours, but in order to get the salvage you have to put some extra effort into getting it, which the ninja has to do as well... hence, the salvage is his too. Please refrain from moderating on the discussion forums.
Ufen Zakalwe	Posted - 2009.08.17 16:01:00 - [177] Y'know with all these "CCP say it ain't broken answers" with regards to wreck ownership can I just point out that this is also their answer to the spectacularly messed up sound.
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.17 16:55:00 - [178] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom It's interesting also that SN is now an 'Alliance' even though nearly all the members of that alliance are in SN (about 20 of their 140 members are not in the SN corp). Being an alliance makes them much more expensive to wardec for a newer corp. I asked them about this and they never once gave me any reason for it so it certainly looks like they're now hiding from wardecs when they used to publicly claim that they welcomed them. I can't speak for Suddenly Ninjas, but I can speak for Ironfleet Towing and Salvage, which is proud to be a member (with SN and others) of TEARS alliance. From Ironfleet's perspective, the alliance offers many of the usual benefits, especially including the ability to field larger fleets for specific operations. Suddenly Ninjas is famous for its ability to field huge swarms of energetic, enthusiastic and aggressive salvagers; as an older player with a tendency to fly solo a lot, they are a joy to fly with. Again not speaking for TEARS or ninja-salvagers generally, I can say that Ironfleet Towing and Salvage is all about the loot. Salvage is nice, but we were a salvage corporation before this game ever had wrecks or rig-salvage. ------------------ Ironfleet.com
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.08.17 16:56:00 - [179] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 17/08/2009 17:03:29 I'm confused.. Where exactly do missionrunners get this feeling of eneitlement? "I created it, therefore it's mine" doesn't work. If you work in a chocolate factory and make a chocolate bar..does it belong to you? If you think of it in a game-lore sort of way (And that's the only way you can make an "ownership" argument), all the loot and wrecks belong to the Serpentis/Guristas/Sansha/Blood/Angel corp. Quote: It's interesting also that SN is now an 'Alliance' even though nearly all the members of that alliance are in SN (about 20 of their 140 members are not in the SN corp). Being an alliance makes them much more expensive to wardec for a newer corp. I asked them about this and they never once gave me any reason for it so it certainly looks like they're now hiding from wardecs when they used to publicly claim that they welcomed them. I'm too lazy to dig up the old forum post...but the original idea behind the alliance was to get like-minded people together who may not have necessarily wanted to leave their old corps. So far, this has worked pretty well and allowed us to do things that we couldn't with a single corp. The vast majority of the alliance is SN, but we have a few others. We originally planned to be a bit larger, but the original additions to the alliance were inactive/bad, and we never really pursued it further. As far as wardecs, it depends. Enraging someone enough to hire mercs or dec us ourselves is hilarious (Hence we welcome it); it usually means someone got incredibly butthurt. "Random decs" are more annoying than anything. They're not hard to survive in by any means (To date, only one corp has ever decced us that could do more than slap a battleship blob on Dodixie M20), but they're a hassle (I have to get my blockade runner out for hauling). Avoiding random decs was never a reason for the creation of TEARS, but I suppose it's been useful. The fact that it's raised our own wardec costs to 50m has actually probably been more of an issue.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.08.17 19:54:00 - [180] Originally by: g0ggalor Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom b) Taking advantage of a glitch in the game that is extremely immersion breaking. And what glitch is this? The one which makes taking an object worth 10 Isk 'theft' but considers an object worth 8 million ISK 'valueless space junk' available to anyone. (The 8 million number is T2 salvage btw - but it's just as ludicrous to compare, say, a single piece of ammunition and a single Melted Cap) May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)

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