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Marguerite Antiki	Posted - 2009.08.11 02:52:00 - [61] Originally by: Izztyrr Maemtor Originally by: Boink'urr All fine and dandy. But what i don't understand is this: Why is the NPC's hull salvage free of any ownership, but the modules/cargo/drones that survived the bang are owned by the shooter? /me is looking... confused. Good point Sir. It should all be free of ownership. Then there would be no confusion. OK lets try another analogy. <<Scooby Doo Wavey Matrix Moves>> Lets pretend this is wthe wild wild west and you - a gunslinger - have a mission to hunt down and kill a smuggler. You find said smuggler and shoot him and the horse he is on and also the donkey with the goods. Its a great bloody mess, blood, bullets and no heart beats from anythign alive once your Tech2 Dual Wielding Smith n Weston Weapons make an end of them (the NPC) So now you have a dead horse/donkey and the smuggled goods they had. You go over and take the goods from the saddlebags and throw it into your saddlebag (cargo hold) BUT THEN, OMGWTFBBQ!!11one1 an Indian comes along and they are unarmed with nothing more than a Skinning knife. They see the dead mess and decide to take the skin from the animal and maybe some meat. why ? Well its a dead carcass that has already been ransacked by the Gun slinger and all thats left is the 'salvage'. So the outcome is, the Gunman could of, shot the carcass to oblivion so there is nothign left, or carried a hunting knife and skinned it himself or better yet, had a friend come along and help skin it (salvage) But as we move along the story our Wild West hero gets angry and goes on a sooky la la rampage and runs to town and tells the local Sheriff (CCP) that a lone indian with a knife skinned and took some meat from an animal. The Sheriff gets a good laugh as the Wild West gun slinger already has a saddle bag full of loot, cashed in the reward for killing the smuggler and then received a reputation boost for bringing justice to the area; but the Wild West gunslinger is still unhappy that some one else took a minor item. The Sherrif (CCP) asks the gun slinger why he doesnt carry a knife and do it himself next time before the indian arrives as they were there, but alas the rant and ramblings about how that wastes a holster slot and they are slow and they have a small ***** etc etc just rambles on so the sheriff states to grow a pair and do it as it is not Illegal. Thus ends the little story. <<Scooby Doo Wavey Matrix Moves Back to Reality>> So, there we have it, CCP have said it isnt illegal, nor shall it warrant Concord or an hostile intervention as you cna salvage it, or anyone else can. It comes down to whether you have the balls to drop a slot and do it yourself or make arrangements for some one else to do it for you.
Stil Harkonnen	Posted - 2009.08.11 03:18:00 - [62] didn't read OP, but I assume you're whining and want your salvage to have ownership. If you give wrecks ownership, then the wrecks will no longer belong to you. Why? kill any player and what happens? The loot AND wreck belong to the player you got blow-ed up. So the wrecks would then belong to the pirate faction that you are running the mission against. You will not be able to tractor beam them, or you will allow ninjas to be able to tractor beam them. Either way, you lose. Stop complaining and be happy with what you have, as the mechanics right now are not how they should be.
Gavin DeVries	Posted - 2009.08.11 04:17:00 - [63] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom This assumes that the bulk of mission runners are boring carebears who know nothing rather than what they really are - alts of some 0.0 PvPer making ISK to replace lost ships. No, this assumes that the bulk of the mission runners creating these threads are boring carebears who know nothing. The alt of an experienced null-sec PvPer isn't going to come on here complaining about some ninja stealing "his" salvage; they'll do something instead. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you?
stankpod	Posted - 2009.08.11 04:23:00 - [64] Ninja salvage with its ease of skill training and the abilty to hide behind npc corps makes mission runners pretty much at their mercy. They should lose faction or something from the corp the mission runner is doing the mission for. Or be flagged for PvP only while they are in your mission area, If they warp out they should become unflagged. Mission runners have the option to only use junky agents in BFE and lose even more money? Thats a pretty **** option if you ask me. And for all the ( OMG I PvP your a carebear people ) most new players do missions to get cash and kill time while training skills up, and dont want to jump into pvp to fast and lose everything they have. And you all have a mission running alts anyways, so pls put your e-peen away.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.08.11 04:28:00 - [65] Quote: Mission runners have the option to only use junky agents in BFE and lose even more money? You're totally right. With ninjasalvaging, missionrunning just isn't a profitable profession. Just give it up; start doing hisec exploration or mining and start -really- raking in the cash.
stankpod	Posted - 2009.08.11 05:07:00 - [66] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Quote: Mission runners have the option to only use junky agents in BFE and lose even more money? You're totally right. With ninjasalvaging, missionrunning just isn't a profitable profession. Just give it up; start doing hisec exploration or mining and start -really- raking in the cash. I could say the same for you.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.08.11 05:24:00 - [67] Originally by: stankpod Ninja salvage with its ease of skill training and the abilty to hide behind npc corps makes mission runners pretty much at their mercy. How so? Quote: They should lose faction or something from the corp the mission runner is doing the mission for. Why? Quote: Or be flagged for PvP only while they are in your mission area, If they warp out they should become unflagged. Why? Quote: Mission runners have the option to only use junky agents in BFE and lose even more money? Thats a pretty ** option if you ask me. Not really. You should do the math on the difference between a "junky" agent and a good one. Quote:** And for all the ( OMG I PvP your a carebear people ) most new players do missions to get cash and kill time while training skills up, and dont want to jump into pvp to fast and lose everything they have. Bad idea. The sooner they jump in and learn how not to lose everything, the better they will be off. If they wait until they've trained their skills up, they will lose everything they have because they have wasted all that time and not learned the skills they need. Quote: And you all have a mission running alts anyways, so pls put your e-peen away. The difference is that those don't complain about something that is a fully intended part of the game. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
stankpod	Posted - 2009.08.11 05:50:00 - [68] Its all about balance and right now its tipped in the ninja's favor and the lure of easy money with little skills, no faction loss, You can do it in a destoyer with 4 salvagers and an AB. Basicly make enough isk to buy your ship 4 times for every mission you ninja 10 times if you do it in a frig. You dont think thats a little out of whack? If not then I should make 400 mill a mission and be able to do lvl 4 in an Ibis.
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.08.11 06:00:00 - [69] Edited by: Tippia on 11/08/2009 06:02:01 Originally by: stankpod You dont think thats a little out of whack? No. Why do you think it is? Quote: If not then I should make 400 mill a mission and be able to do lvl 4 in an Ibis. Why do you presume that all professions should be made equal? Why do you think a non-competetive activity (in a PvP game, no less) should be the most lucrative thing in the entire game? Why do you need to earn more by missioning? Why is it so hard for you to make the (allegedly very small) effort that goes into salvaging, thereby beating the ninja to the punch? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
stankpod	Posted - 2009.08.11 06:31:00 - [70] Dam Tippia I feel like im texting my wife telling her im going to a strip bar talking to you. WHY because (In my opinion I think its right)
Tippia Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2009.08.11 06:39:00 - [71] Originally by: stankpod WHY because (In my opinion I think its right) So in other words, there is no reason why salvagers should be flagged. Glad we sorted that one out. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
stankpod	Posted - 2009.08.11 06:56:00 - [72] Yes salvagers should be free to do whatever they like. ( you win ) And never argue with a woman or a man pretending to be a woman.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.08.11 07:12:00 - [73] Originally by: stankpod Its all about balance and right now its tipped in the ninja's favor and the lure of easy money with little skills, no faction loss, You can do it in a destoyer with 4 salvagers and an AB. The mission-runner can use tractor beams to make the salvage process easier - the exploration-based salvager cannot. To I get angry when someone comes into "my" mission space and salvages "my" wrecks out from under me? Certainly I do. But I'm not getting angry that they are doing it, only that they beat my salvage alt to the wrecks. Did you know that the last person to shoot an NPC gets the bounty? Wait until you have someone in a Golem invading your mission spaces to run your missions for you, taking all the bounties, with no repercussions! [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC]
Ufen Zakalwe	Posted - 2009.08.11 11:19:00 - [74] Ah the standard Ninja Carebear posturing and "I am a naughty pirate" vague empty threats. It's as predictable as the mission runners whining. Face it, Ninja Salavaging = More carebear than running missions. Rather than tell mission runners to go and do other things, why not try this "risk" thing I hear you banging on about, maybe try doing missions and OMG get shot at?, or scan down wormholes? Good money to be had in wormholes. Use those scanning skills for more profit.
Kariva	Posted - 2009.08.11 12:32:00 - [75] Let's say so "All game mechanics are features until CCP decides it's a bug... "
Salliene Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.11 13:32:00 - [76] Originally by: stankpod And for all the ( OMG I PvP your a carebear people ) most new players do missions to get cash and kill time while training skills up, and dont want to jump into pvp to fast and lose everything they have. New players aren't doing Level 4's. If you aren't in a Level 4 in a Battleship, your odds of getting ninja salvaged are pretty low cause your ship is a little harder to find and the wrecks you are making aren't worth the time to mess around with. Originally by: stankpod And you all have a mission running alts anyways, so pls put your e-peen away. I don't have any alts. None. Period. Nada. One account. One character.
Salliene Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.11 13:40:00 - [77] Originally by: Ufen Zakalwe Face it, Ninja Salavaging = More carebear than running missions. And? Originally by: Ufen Zakalwe Rather than tell mission runners to go and do other things, why not try this "risk" thing I hear you banging on about, maybe try doing missions and OMG get shot at?, or scan down wormholes? Good money to be had in wormholes. Use those scanning skills for more profit. I get shot at all the time, by NPCs and by players who I have been flagged to. Plus when I get shot at, it is not after having consulted EVE-Survival to see exactly which type of tank I should be equipped with, what ammo I should be carrying, where everything is going to spawn, and the best and fastest way to run the room. Everything I do is done on the fly with no website holding my hand every step of the way. I also do missions from time to time. Unfortunately they are not technically MY mission. Sometimes a player will leave their mission for a while hoping I will leave. If I am bored enough and if there are enough juicy bounties then I will just go get my Domi and finish the mission up. I also do wormholes. I do whatever I want to do, whether it makes me a lot of money, zero money, or costs me money.
g0ggalor	Posted - 2009.08.11 14:08:00 - [78] Originally by: stankpod Mission runners have the option to only use junky agents in BFE and lose even more money? Thats a pretty ** option if you ask me. You are wrong, there are more than just "junky agents in BFE" for mission runners to go to. I know of a Q20 L4 agent in high sec, no low sec neighbors, that never has more than 50 people in local. Do you research before you spout off like you know what you are talking about. Originally by:** stankpod Its all about balance and right now its tipped in the ninja's favor So the MR gets the bounties, the LP, the rewards, and the loot and the ninja gets the salvage (which doesn't belong to anyone). Yes, the balance is definitely tipped toward the ninja.
Xiafu	Posted - 2009.08.11 15:30:00 - [79] We need more ninja salvagers. More ninja salvagers equals more salvage which equals cheaper salvage which equals cheaper rigs.
Galmarr Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.11 16:19:00 - [80] Originally by: stankpod Ninja salvage with its ease of skill training and the abilty to hide behind npc corps makes mission runners pretty much at their mercy. Who's hiding behind NPC corps. Read the signature. The name says it all. Have no mercy on me, because I wont have mercy on you.
Izztyrr Maemtor Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.11 16:23:00 - [81] Originally by: Xiafu We need more ninja salvagers. More ninja salvagers equals more salvage which equals cheaper salvage which equals cheaper rigs. Don't worry my friend. Every one of these threads creates more ninjas. Reading them is what got me and a lot of others started in the profession.
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.08.11 17:04:00 - [82] Originally by: Marguerite Antiki <snip>but the Wild West gunslinger is still unhappy that some one else took a minor item. And here's where the 'junk','minor' etc. analogy/argument completely falls apart. See, in a L1 I ran not to long ago that 'minor item' was worth FOURTEEN TIMES all the other rewards combined. In a decent L4 (depending on the race of the NPC) it's between 25 and 50% of the take. Were it 5-10%, yeah, you'd have a point and an argument. But that ain't the case. Your 'gunslinger' is annoyed because while he was still shooting at the bad guys some injun came along and ran off with the prized golden fleece that the cowboy couldn't skin himself (yet) because he was still busy shooting bad guys. None of these threads would be occurring if salvaging truly were a 'mini profession' which was what CCP has stated. There are ninjas who have posted rates here that are as high in ISK/hour as the mission runner himself and sometimes higher. That's no longer a 'mini' anything. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.08.11 17:13:00 - [83] Originally by: Wa'roun It has been said the devs made it this way because supposedly maritime law states that a ship's cargo belongs to the owner but the hull can be salvaged by any salvaging company. If the Devs actually stated that (doubtful) then they didn't bother to do their research. In reality EVERYTHING on a non-military ship belongs to the original owners. Salvagers may make a claim on it and then have to go before an admiralty court who make a decision of how much the salvage team gets for their efforts. Under normal circumstances it's around 50% as a maximum. Military ships are always considered property of their governments and usually war graves so salvaging them is a completely different proposition. The only exception is ancient shipwrecks (several hundred years plus) where there generally isn't considered to be any owner anymore and the salvage companies can claim everything, although there is a cut to the local government based on local law if the wreck isn't in international waters. And even the ancient shipwreck argument can be argued in court - there is one before the courts right now concerning a salvage company, a Spanish treasure ship and the Spanish government. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Jarvis Hellstrom Gallente The Flying Tigers	Posted - 2009.08.11 17:18:00 - [84] Originally by: Gavin DeVries The alt of an experienced null-sec PvPer isn't going to come on here complaining about some ninja stealing "his" salvage; they'll do something instead. They might - but there's that annoying 'Concorddoken' thing if they do. Or they can shoot the wrecks, but that costs them money (which is why they're doing the mission in the first place). Those are the only 'things' currently available as even some none central mission areas are starting to suffer under the ninja plague. Oh, yes, he could salvage on the go, depending on ship, race etc. but that eats into mission time (which eats into profit). Lots of reasons why such a character might make their displeasure known in hopes that CCP will change the rules. You can call it 'whining' if you like. I call it advocating for change. May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk (Old Egyptian Blessing)
Salliene Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2009.08.11 17:31:00 - [85] ITT continued whining about the fact that something memorable might happen in a mission.
Mistress Evita Caldari Booze and Hookers	Posted - 2009.08.11 18:51:00 - [86] Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom Lots of reasons why such a character might make their displeasure known in hopes that CCP will change the rules. You can call it 'whining' if you like. I call it advocating for change. I call it whining. reading the posts here one would think that there is a ninja salvager connected at the hip of every single mission runner in eve. I've been mission running for years. I remember when there was no salvage and when level 4's took more then one person cause of the instant agro and spawns. The only time I ran missions in mission hubs was when I first started doing them. A week later I left and started doing missions other then Caldari Navy. I hate running missions where there are more then 40 people in system. It is possible to find good level 4 agents not in mission hubs. All it takes is to do some research and the will power to not run missions for the Caldari Navy. The only time I had someone warp into my mission was a Privateer looking for a war target. I was in a system about three jumps out of Jita. You want to do missions in the mission hubs then expect people going into your missions. You don't like it then do something about it. Blow their dang ship up if they are in an NPC corp or war dec em if they are not. Stand on your own two feet and stop yelling for Mommy CCP to come help you cause the big bad meany ninja salvager is picking on you.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2009.08.11 18:56:00 - [87] Quote: I could say the same for you. the difference is that I don't ***** on the forums when something happens that could possibly reduce my profit.
Kariva	Posted - 2009.08.11 19:16:00 - [88] I don't like my post being deleted for no reason so again. All aspects of game are a feature untill CCp said that's a bug... There were many things they nerfed saying it was a bug. I heard that silent shield resistance "bug" will bee fixed in next patch .. If you delete that you are .... So if i had an accident and crashed my car someone could salvage it??? But if i shot the thief i'm a criminal and will be blown by police(concord) High sec insurance. 15 BS gank ganking a freighter in so called high sec What they risk?? small standing loss. ? 25mil for insurance of their ships... STOP joking CPP and start to fix obvious problems. Who need stupid chrnicles, ets.. start fixing the game..
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2009.08.11 19:36:00 - [89] I just dont belive how many threads are about this. Concord bilboards at the gates should have a big advertisment : SALVAGE DOESNT BELONG TO YOU. IT ALL WORKS AS INTENTED.
Chronospin Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.08.11 19:43:00 - [90] Edited by: Chronospin on 11/08/2009 19:45:01 Cry more babe, cry more lol awesome. A little story from deep space, were some ppl are clueless about some basic rules like "if u shoot at someone in empire u will be concordoken". Yesterday night, i was salvaging in a field of mission runers, when one of them had the good idea to tring pop my firetail (ofc he didnt went half shield, poor nooblet) >> ganked by concord. The hilarious thing in it is, in the same pocket, with the same players, a guy went in thorax to pop me and, again, he was concordokened. LMAO awesome dudes. OFC FOR THE OCCASION I SALVAGED THEM. HOPE NOW THEY WILL UNDERSTAND THAT MR TEARS ARE ALWAYS WELCOME TO LUBE MY SALVAGE MODULES !!

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