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Harotak THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:39:00 - [151] Edited by: Harotak on 12/09/2009 16:41:33 Sansha ships need some love too. They all have one less slot than the Blood raider ships, and the blood raider ships all either do the same DPS or more along with having a web bonus and a neut bonus while the Sansha ships are completely DPS specialized. Originally by: FraXy [Rattlesnake, Rattlesnake mk. II] Damn i wish i owned a Rattler... Looks nice as well. And that new rattler doesn't do much other than tank Fraxy, which is something the new Navy Scorp will do better anyway. Yes it still looks strong, but not as strong as the updated Bhaal or Vindy. As for the Mach, well... projectile users are used to getting screwed by now. Tank bonuses are boring anyway. I'd rather have something that can tank ok but have the potential to obliterate anything in its path; see vigilant/vindy.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:39:00 - [152] I like what I see, toh I am a bit sad phantasm ogt less shields. :) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
FraXy 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:40:00 - [153] Edited by: FraXy on 12/09/2009 16:44:56 Originally by: Stealthbug Originally by: FraXy Rattlesnake Post. perhaps i was wrong about the rattlesnake being subpar assuming your math is right O_o My EFT skill is at Advanced 5. Can't be arsed to incorporate the Resist bonus and 7.th mid, but using the current Rattlesnake seems to prove what it can perform. With a very realistic fit. I am a noob using forums, so unable to quote Harot. Like most ships in-game, there is most of the time another ship that does one specific job better. Rattlesnake seems incredibly strong in a number of roles like all the other ships, so i wouldn't go easy when spotting one. Also, shield tank is a hundredfold stronger then armor buffer due to shield regen which makes actually downing that Rattlesnake would make a Damnation seem easy. Ships looks strong, some unique bonuses and some not so unique. I've defended the Rattlesnake's honor and now i must check if TQ is up so i can go lease me out for ISK so i can actually afford some of these come Dominion. One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:42:00 - [154] Edited by: Soporo on 12/09/2009 16:44:28 Originally by: FraXy Edited by: FraXy on 12/09/2009 16:37:51 [Rattlesnake, Rattlesnake mk. II failfit] Damage Control II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Pith A-Type Photon Scattering Field Domination Warp Disruptor Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Torpedo True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer Large Core Defence Field Extender II Large Core Defence Field Extender II Large Core Defence Field Extender II L5 Character: 501 DPS from 4x Siege II w/CN Ammo 475 DPS from 5x Ogre II (450 DPS from 5x Garde II) -1200 cap from 2x True Sansha Heavy Neut --- 976 DPS using no cap w/5x Ogre II) (951 DPS using no cap w/5x Garde II) 680 Cpu used 10872 Grid used Siege Warfare 5 gang: 47152 Shield 1570 Shield Recharge 266k Average EHP 337k Average EHP [Overloaded] A what? 3 or 4 bil isk ship + fit? If you use torps and don't fit a painter or two, then you're wasting your time. Completely outclassed by the others, btw.
Stealthbug	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:43:00 - [155] Originally by: Roemy Schneider Originally by: Stealthbug theres no issue with the webs. These are PIRATE FACTION SHIPS. They aren't supposed to play nice. People are just annoyed that they cant kill them as easily now. These changes are great, they give these ships back their "oh ****" factor. The only change i could see would be giving the rattlesnake a damage bonus as opposed to a range bonus. but other than that this is great. Why would you care if they out perform mauraders? those things are almost solely PvE considering you can jam them by aiming a strobe light at them >_>;; it's not like now you're going to see a mass amount of Vindicators and Bhaalgorns floating around causing mayhem. At least now, they are actually worth the price tag placed on them. http://www.a-kills.com/related.php?id=274390 sry but i don't do well with "maybe sometime in the distant future" and especially not "ah they're expensive, they'll never get used". do not underestimate the power dyspro moons, GTC selling, corp/alliances thefts, scamming, jita market manipulation etc. remember when (super) capitals were big, expensive ships only very few, very dedicated alliance would field...? and as i said; it doesnt have to be a gang of those webbers; one guy with 2 of those webbers will be sufficient for the whole gang to not fit regular webs or warp scramblers. in fact, you don't want to for the off-chance he lights up his christmas tree MWD -.- so what? you want these ships to have no clear shot advantage over their counterparts that makes them worth the price? you nerf that web bonus, and you're going to get a relatively powerful ship with 8 neutron blasters that cant even hit you. need i remind you they removed the MWD cap bonus? The fact of the matter is, if someone is fielding multibillion ISK ships, they probably dont want it to be a ship that 3 people can just gang up on and destroy. As i said, these are pirate ships. They're supposed to be incredibly powerful.
ArmyOfMe The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:44:00 - [156] were to start gurista ships you just changed the gila and rattlesnake into the ships ive been dreaming about for years, so pure ♥ for that. however, Angel ships. do you guys seriously hate everything that has to do with minmatar? why cant you actually give minmatar ships the buff they have deserved for years????
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:45:00 - [157] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Gila: •Slot layout: 5 high, 6 med, 4 low slots, 3 launchers, no turrets •Fittings: 350 CPU, 630 powergrid •Bonuses: pirate: 50% to heavy and heavy assault missile velocity, Caldari cruiser: +5% to all shield resistances per level, Gallente cruiser: +10% to drone damage and hitpoints per level •Hitpoints: 3188 shields, 2325 armor, 2490 hull •Capacitor: 1375 capacitor, 491.25s recharge (about 2.8 cap/s) •Dronebay: 125m3 drone bandwidth, 400m3 drone bay •Speed: 164m/s max velocity, 0.66 agility, 9,600,000kg •Sensor: 55km targeting range, 7 locked targets, 275mm scan resolution, 22 gravimetric sensor strength, 150m signature radius That awsome drones? :)
Harotak THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:48:00 - [158] Also, could serpentis get some lvl4 agents please? I will never use them, but the new demand for their ships needs to be filled, and right now its the only faction without good lvl4 agents.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:49:00 - [159] [Bhaalgorn, Can we say LOL] Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Tobias' Modified Stasis Webifier Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Tobias' Modified Warp Disruptor Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Draclira's Modified Heavy Energy Neutralizer Draclira's Modified Heavy Energy Neutralizer Draclira's Modified Heavy Energy Neutralizer Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Vespa EC-600 x5 Warrior II x5 40km EVERYTHING. 3000 neut per volley, 40km web, 40km point, 40km 550 DPS.. lol :D So in one minute a battleship's capacitor is suffering severe issues, can't move, can't warp and has taken 33000 effective damage. lulz www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.quafeultra.com ò Buy a GTC
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:50:00 - [160] Originally by: ArmyOfMe you just changed the gila and rattlesnake into the ships ive been dreaming about for years, so pure ♥ for that. Yes! I suggested somthing along these line some time ago, as did someone else I belive. Happy they at least took the idead to them! :D missiles + dornes = win. Tho I'd like more missile hardpoints tbh, so they will at least out damage raven. :) Bloods seems to be nice as well, and serpentis can be quite fearsome I think if fitted right. Angles seems pretty standard tho. Too bad the made the Phantasm less hp, all it got for itself is basically spped and damage + some decent tank, while the others seem more of a utility bonused. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Ferocious FeAr THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:54:00 - [161] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa [Bhaalgorn, Can we say LOL] Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Corpum A-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Tobias' Modified Stasis Webifier Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Tobias' Modified Warp Disruptor Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch L Draclira's Modified Heavy Energy Neutralizer Draclira's Modified Heavy Energy Neutralizer Draclira's Modified Heavy Energy Neutralizer Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Large Trimark Armor Pump II Vespa EC-600 x5 Warrior II x5 40km EVERYTHING. 3000 neut per volley, 40km web, 40km point, 40km 550 DPS.. lol :D So in one minute a battleship's capacitor is suffering severe issues, can't move, can't warp and has taken 33000 effective damage. lulz That's easy to beat, a CNR hp tanked with a point will own that. __________________ Built like a Rokh
FraXy 0utbreak KrautbreaK	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:56:00 - [162] Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 12/09/2009 16:44:28 Originally by: FraXy Edited by: FraXy on 12/09/2009 16:37:51 Rattlesnake Setup posted earlier. A what? 3 or 4 bil isk ship + fit? If you use torps and don't fit a painter or two, then you're wasting your time. Completely outclassed by the others, btw. One last setup discussion as i can't help myself. Going by old Rattlesnake prices as some Caldari/Gallente specced pirate PvP'er have owned one for 3 years waiting for a boost. 900 Mill Rattlesnake 800 Mill CN Invulns 200-250 Mill Pith A-Type Photon 130 Mill Domination Warp Disruptor 250 Mill Caldari Navy Ballistics 120-150 Mill True Sansha Neuts 350 Mill Core Extender II (Very rough estimation) ------ 2.8 Bill Some people have too much ISK to spend and 2.8 Bill is not much at all. I hardly belive ANY of these ships would fit the average pilot's wallet. Regarding Torps. 400 Dronebay first and foremost to do the primary damage to smaller ships. Variety in Drone size/types. And let me point you to Crash Booster: Standard = -20% Explosion Radius Improved = -25% Explosion Radius Strong = -30% Explosion Radius Caldari Navy Ammo: None - 450m Explosion Radius Standard - 360m Explosion Radius Improved - 337.5m Explosion Radius Strong - 315m Explosion Radius Not to mention in the fit i posted there is missing 7.th mid which can be a Target Painter like i wrote. I'm not saying Rattlesnake is THE best of the bunch, because to be frank that Bhaalgorn looks like a true beast. I do however belive the Rattlesnake is not the worst ship in the line-up. Enough numbers. Enjoy speculating setups on these new beasts. I know i will enjoy doing so. ♥ FraXy One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with.
Pattern Clarc Celtic Anarchy	Posted - 2009.09.12 16:57:00 - [163] Summary. CCP you've created some pretty powerfull ships. Rattlesnake - 500 ehp/2k passive tank + 700-900 dps Vindicator - 1500 dps - Perhaps better than a federation navythron because of the web bonus, although perhaps one of the more sane ships in the line up. Machariel - 1100 dps + neut - Hard to see just yet but its seems to have battlecruiser speed, size and agility stats, with a side order of face ****. Bhaalgorn - Gah?@! All in all, they seem to have been elevated to the same level as the Nightmare, then elevated a little more with a few tweaks. Cruiser line up wise, I feel they are kinda balanced, much higher dps than t2/t3, somewhat less in terms of tanking potencial, however there still very evil. Questions 1) Should these ships become the Alpha and the Omega, the last say in Battleship performance? 2) If not, is there a road map that includes niches for future battleships (navy tier III, or t2 tier III) 3) Are improvements likely to be made to projectiles? (a simple we're working on it would suffice :) - also this check out if you haven't already!) Suggestions Converting the Machariel into a 8/7/5 shield tanker would probably even up the general shield to armour tanking ratio and provide better synergy with it's new found speed. Gila drone bay may be a bit much, (thats coming from the proud owner of a a BPC ) Whatever you do, don't give the Rattlesnake additional torp damage (Again, thats coming from a BPC owner), the tank may be a bit insane, I'm guessing you'll be tweaking shield recharge rates? Erm, That's about it right now... ____ Minmatar Children of Sol
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:02:00 - [164] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Whatever you do, don't give the Rattlesnake additional torp damage (Again, thats coming from a BPC owner), the tank may be a bit insane, I'm guessing you'll be tweaking shield recharge rates? Erm, That's about it right now... Lol, you want to nerf the Rattlesnake even more? You should be whining about that crazy ass Bhalg, if anything.
Roemy Schneider Vanishing Point.	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:06:00 - [165] Originally by: Stealthbug The fact of the matter is, if someone is fielding multibillion ISK ships, they probably dont want it to be a ship that 3 people can just gang up on and destroy. As i said, these are pirate ships. They're supposed to be incredibly powerful. that's your only argument? before invention ruined prices for both t2 and most of the best named mods [read: when supply+demand were more or less functioning market forces], there was a rule of thumb saying that anything improving you and/or your ship by 5% would cost you five to ten times more. may sound vague but this is still basis for balance when it comes to hardwiring costs and sometimes best-named items if they're noticeably better; damage controls, neuts, you get the idea. iow, your dream of a pwn ship that can take on entire bs squads will have to cost you more than a raven state issue, whatever it's called these days / whatever sfshootme wants for it -.- - putting the gist back into logistics
Pattern Clarc Celtic Anarchy	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:08:00 - [166] Anyone who's thinking that these ships will be going for anything less than twice there previous price for at least a year is kidding themselves. (unless running pirate plexes or missions becomes a **** ton easier!) ____ Minmatar Children of Sol
Stealthbug	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:10:00 - [167] Edited by: Stealthbug on 12/09/2009 17:11:06 Originally by: Roemy Schneider Originally by: Stealthbug The fact of the matter is, if someone is fielding multibillion ISK ships, they probably dont want it to be a ship that 3 people can just gang up on and destroy. As i said, these are pirate ships. They're supposed to be incredibly powerful. that's your only argument? before invention ruined prices for both t2 and most of the best named mods [read: when supply+demand were more or less functioning market forces], there was a rule of thumb saying that anything improving you and/or your ship by 5% would cost you five to ten times more. may sound vague but this is still basis for balance when it comes to hardwiring costs and sometimes best-named items if they're noticeably better; damage controls, neuts, you get the idea. iow, your dream of a pwn ship that can take on entire bs squads will have to cost you more than a raven state issue, whatever it's called these days / whatever sfshootme wants for it -.- No need to be rude. Anyways though, how about this. You think the ship is good? Buy one. Simple. God, it's like CCP adds some good ships and people freak out. >_>
A DeathDealer	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:11:00 - [168] Imo the Vindicator 7.5% bonus should be damage (if it isn't). With the web bonus, at max skills you're getting -90% on your stasis webbifier. This nullifies the need for a tracking bonus; with your target at -90% it should be quite easy to ensure that transversal remains close to 0. Ergo, more damage please! ---------------- I don't discriminate. I hate everybody equally.
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:11:00 - [169] I'll be sending you the bill to clean my keyboard after I saw the Guristas ships. Love them. Perfect fix, will get my hands on a Gila as soon as I can. Now just fix rockets and I will never doubt the almighty CCP again.
Ferocious FeAr THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:13:00 - [170] Rattlesnake isn't going to have 500ehp with a 2k passive tank, what drugs are you on because I need a dose right now. __________________ Built like a Rokh
Tom Hanks Raype Inc.	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:14:00 - [171] Bhaalgorn needs 8th slot because it would be rather gumped. You need 4 laser turrets, 3 nos, and the large smartbomb for when you have hundreds of drones pwning ur face when a 50 man fleet comes through to gank you. The 8th slot would put it in line with other faction bs giving it a total slot count of other navy/faction bs with 20. As it stands it only has 19. Bhaalgorn needs the extra high slot because of utility purposes. 4 guns, 4 nos or neuts, or smartbomb/cyno generator. Caldari Racial Purity
Pattern Clarc Celtic Anarchy	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:17:00 - [172] Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Rattlesnake isn't going to have 500ehp with a 2k passive tank, what drugs are you on because I need a dose right now. 500 ehp or 2k passive tank It will be monstrous assuming it doesn't get nerfed. ____ Minmatar Children of Sol
Stealthbug	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:19:00 - [173] Originally by: Pattern Clarc Originally by: Ferocious FeAr Rattlesnake isn't going to have 500ehp with a 2k passive tank, what drugs are you on because I need a dose right now. 500 ehp or 2k passive tank It will be monstrous assuming it doesn't get nerfed. that's highly exaggerated xD
Linas IV	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:20:00 - [174] Please Change the Machariel to Shieldtank! (I.e. at least 6 meds) Plating/Trimarking that beauty is a Sin!!!
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:23:00 - [175] Good god. I think I just ****ed in my pants. _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Master Akira Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:29:00 - [176] You can easily get a +1000 dps passive tank or a 250+k EHP buffer on a rattlesnake now without much :effort:. Haven't run the numbers, but with a 7th mid and a 25% resist bonus it will be pretty awesome. I don't share the "BWWHAAAA GIVE IT ROF BONUS" cries but I'd like a 5th launcher hardpoint to kinda guarantee it will have at least torp raven dps ;)
Ferocious FeAr THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:34:00 - [177] Originally by: Master Akira You can easily get a +1000 dps passive tank or a 250+k EHP buffer on a rattlesnake now without much :effort:. Haven't run the numbers, but with a 7th mid and a 25% resist bonus it will be pretty awesome. I don't share the "BWWHAAAA GIVE IT ROF BONUS" cries but I'd like a 5th launcher hardpoint to kinda guarantee it will have at least torp raven dps ;) Why buy the rattlesnake, the CNR will be cheaper and can pump out 1.2k without any issues. You can get the same type of EHP on the CNR. __________________ Built like a Rokh
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:37:00 - [178] Originally by: Lijhal why does the Vindicator and the Machariel (both 8/5/7) have 20 slots overall and the bhaalgorn (7/5/7) and rattlesnake (6/7/6) only 19 ? all other frigs (10) and cruiser (15) have the same amount of slots, so why not the battleships ? the rattlesnake has a large drone bay and drone damage bonus -1 slot the bhaal gets a 100% damage bonus so -1 slot
Verlokiraptor All Around Research Inc	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:37:00 - [179] Originally by: Master Akira You can easily get a +1000 dps passive tank or a 250+k EHP buffer on a rattlesnake now without much :effort:. Haven't run the numbers, but with a 7th mid and a 25% resist bonus it will be pretty awesome. I don't share the "BWWHAAAA GIVE IT ROF BONUS" cries but I'd like a 5th launcher hardpoint to kinda guarantee it will have at least torp raven dps ;) Easy way to factor in 25% resists = check shield ehp or recharge in eft, stick it into calculator and divide by 3. Then add that.
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.09.12 17:40:00 - [180] Originally by: Manu Hermanus Originally by: Lijhal why does the Vindicator and the Machariel (both 8/5/7) have 20 slots overall and the bhaalgorn (7/5/7) and rattlesnake (6/7/6) only 19 ? all other frigs (10) and cruiser (15) have the same amount of slots, so why not the battleships ? the rattlesnake has a large drone bay and drone damage bonus -1 slot the bhaal gets a 100% damage bonus so -1 slot But the Ashimmu lost two slots :( www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.quafeultra.com ò Buy a GTC

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