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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Liang Nuren The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.13 03:44:00 - [301] Originally by: Cyno Hoar You're terrible at this game. Excellent argumentation, and very convincing presentation. A+++ would read again! Totally convinced! -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Reiisha Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.13 03:52:00 - [302] "Ashimmu: The underdog story" The epic tale of a little underused, underappreciated and underpowered little cruiser finally making it to the top. THANK YOU! And the Phantasm is capable of tanking aswell as DPS.... I don't think the Ashimmu fills the same niche, it's fine as it is, not to mention that it's much rarer (the Ashimmu that is). Combined with the fact that they don't have T2 stats otherwise they remain a niche product - A little unbalancing isn't all that bad when you consider the Phantasm is still going for only half as much as the Ashimmu, even though that last one has sucked since forever. "If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
Alxea	Posted - 2009.09.13 05:10:00 - [303] Edited by: Alxea on 13/09/2009 05:16:42 Edited by: Alxea on 13/09/2009 05:12:05 Wow nice changes. I support these. PS: The pilots who don't fly domi's can't possibly know how weak the DPS from drones are. 480 DPS maxed skills with T2 heavy drones. Saying a rattlesnake will be overpowered is silly. It is the weakest DPS dealer of all the ships. What makes it good is its passive tank combined with its Domi like DPS. Atleast we finally got a real gallente style bonus to it. It needs the drone bay and bandwidth and drone bonuses or it would not beable to compete with a nightmare. I do like the style of missiles + drones on them. But without a damage bonus to missiles or ROF bonus its not going to beable to compete with a nightmare DPS wise not even close. Atleast its shield tank bonus makes up for its lack of DPS. The DPS of a nightmare is the same DPS as a fully turreted ship does. Roughtly 1000/1500 DPS. Rattlesnakes can do maybe 800 DPS with the new changes. I think the drone bonuses should be higher like 20% per level. Then drones can do a decent amount of damage and have a reasonable amount of HP. They buffed the faction battleships because they were prenerfed for years. This will make the ships cost 2 bill. They cost 1mill LP as it is. People don't know what they are talking about who think this is overpowered. You never flown a nightmare with 4 heatsinks before and max skills I assume. Its a fav pvp ship for a reason because of its mad DPS and passive tank.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.09.13 06:04:00 - [304] Isnt a 1000dps Vigilant a bit over the top?
Verlokiraptor All Around Research Inc	Posted - 2009.09.13 06:18:00 - [305] The 1000 dps isn't so bad... the fact that it can fit a full rack of neutrons, MWD, 1600mm and 2 superwebs with just 1 ACR while having a higher damage bonus than the deimos is rather completely nuts.
Cyno Hoar	Posted - 2009.09.13 06:34:00 - [306] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Cyno Hoar You're terrible at this game. Excellent argumentation, and very convincing presentation. A+++ would read again! Totally convinced! -Liang You're also a bad poster.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.09.13 07:09:00 - [307] Edited by: fuxinos on 13/09/2009 07:09:54 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Cyno Hoar You're terrible at this game. Excellent argumentation, and very convincing presentation. A+++ would read again! Totally convinced! -Liang Isnt that the way you like to discuss? Most of your posts go like: "Your wrong, because I say so". Hes just talking to you on your niveau.
Lijhal Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.09.13 07:29:00 - [308] Originally by: VoiceInTheDesert Originally by: Harotak Edited by: Harotak on 12/09/2009 22:04:16 I can't believe I'm hearing the Gallente whine about the drone Gila when the Vigilant is getting the same gun damage as a brutix and 90% webs. Originally by: A Ingus Won't work with the Rattlesnakes, they will live forever raking it in in level 4s at a faster rate than ever. The new rattler won't mission anywhere near as fast as the current one, much less a well fit Pally/Vargur/Kronos fighting their ideal targets. You're right. We're getting ONE ship that does what a normal, t1 fitted brut used to get before web nerf. We should be so grateful. These gurista ships are just OP. There should not be more drone space in a cruiser than in a freaking drone boat battleship. That's just a reasonableness test for relative size. The Gila now has more drone bay/bandwidth than NI Vexor and more drone bay than domi, vexor, NI vexor and Ishtar and gets the same damage from those drones. That's messed up. In addition, the snake and Gila are both getting a huge tanking bonus. Suffice to say, the Gila could and would easily beat a Ishtar now. Might beat a domi and would wipe the floor with a NI vexor. Giving Guristas the best drone boats in game is kinda dumb and kinda just another "**** you" to the people who used to fly dedicated drone boats like the myrmidon. Gallente are supposed to be the best drone users, not caldari, missile spamming carebears. congrats of being the worst player in eve by saying, gurista ships are caldari!
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.09.13 07:44:00 - [309] Originally by: Manu Hermanus Originally by: Bellum Eternus Random tangent- I've been flying a CNR for a bit, just to try it out, on my other account, and I have to say, I'm just not that impressed with it when compared to my Dominix with it's sentry drones. Between the time of flight of the missiles and it's reload time and slow ROF it just doesn't burn through targets quite as fast as I thought it would. EFT isn't everything. A lot of smaller factors contribute to a ships effectiveness than just max tank/gank stats. These days I could care less what ends up being the best. I can fly everything with equal effectiveness. I just don't like ships sitting around gathering dust because they suck. Originally by: Bellum Eternus Then you're doing it wrong. The new Rattlesnake is a Dominix with 4x missile launchers. Which is way better than a Dominix with 6x gun slots and a hybrid bonus. so basically you say missiles suck, but the snake will be awesome because it has missiles you got me confused. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. No, not really. The main issue I have with the Dominix is that it's guns, regardless of what ends up being fit to it, can't keep up with the performance of max skilled T2 sentry drones (specifically Warden IIs). The advantage I see is the cruise launchers filling in the gaps of the sentry drone performance and being able to reach out to the ship's maximum lock range without a decrease in DPS, unlike the turrets on the Dominix. I think that the Rattlesnake will have a nice complementary effect between the launchers and sentry drones, plus the fact that it will have it's own large drone bay for maximum flexibility when it comes to drone selection. Couple all of the above with a very efficient shield tank that will be able to perma-tank just about any L4 with ease and you end up with a top notch PVE ship. It will be interesting to see if the Rattlesnake is at the top of the pile or if the Navy Domi (DNI? Dominix Navy Issue?) is the best overall performer. I think a damage bonus to launchers would be preferable for me personally on the Rattlesnake over the range bonus, but I think that's what everyone's looking for anyway. Time will tell I guess. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Tier 5 Battleships
Mahke Aeon Of Strife	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:05:00 - [310] The rattler is good, but, not better than a nightmare, and def. not worth flying in pvp for the prices it has hit. The question of its true value is this: can it handle level V's (there are some agents that send you to hisec). If it can, it's massively better than any other ship for pve. If not, its excellent but nothing gamebreaking. The bhaalgorn, otoh, IS gamebreaking. It's hugely better than any other subcap and, you could even make the case for being better than non-super capital ships. Those of you who think the gurista ships are OP missed the actual set of ships that are going to be overpowered: the bloods. That all said, I like these changes overall. Awesome ships to trade in, awesome ships to fly, awesome ships to get on the killmail of. If CCP gets the sov changes right and ends the moongoo insanity this is shaping up to be the best patch since I started playing.

Liang Nuren The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:16:00 - [311] Originally by: fuxinos Isnt that the way you like to discuss? Most of your posts go like: "Your wrong, because I say so". Hes just talking to you on your niveau. No, I tend to bring something to the table (such as fits, ideas, suggestions, etc). Moreover, I try not to blatantly lie and mislead in my posts unlike a certain other person I'm talking to right now. Although I had to wonder if he was your alt. The pettiness and timing of it really reminded me of you. But really, claiming a Raven doesn't have tackle when you perfectly well could have traded the second PWNAGE for it and not materially affected anything. Oh, but the Raven neeeeeds the 2 PWNAGE to deal damage? Funny, so would the Phoon have then (and notably it wouldn't have had tackle then either) - They were both torp boats afterall. And even then you never addressed my original complaint with your "suggestion": just how could you attempt to justify a huge PG nerf to the Phoon? OH WAIT, you couldn't. And then you ran away screaming about how vulgar and disgusting I was.... because I reasonably showed that suggestion to be utter bull**. But you know what? If I am wrong... I'm wrong. That wasn't one of those times, and neither is this. If you still think you're right about it, let's take it back up in the Phoon thread. Your move, bud. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum *** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Liang Nuren The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:23:00 - [312] Originally by: Mahke The question of its true value is this: can it handle level V's (there are some agents that send you to hisec). I'm going to go out on a limb and say no here. I believe I read a post in here somewhere about how they are drastically lowering shield recharge rates of battleships. This means there's no passive tanking it. And with those neut towers... best just stick to the Ishtar and Nighthawk IMO. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Sylvaen	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:32:00 - [313] I've only read some of the previous posts but would like to request some love for Gallente skilled, drone and railgun users. Thx
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:44:00 - [314] Originally by: Bellum Eternus Originally by: Manu Hermanus Originally by: Bellum Eternus Random tangent- I've been flying a CNR for a bit, just to try it out, on my other account, and I have to say, I'm just not that impressed with it when compared to my Dominix with it's sentry drones. Between the time of flight of the missiles and it's reload time and slow ROF it just doesn't burn through targets quite as fast as I thought it would. EFT isn't everything. A lot of smaller factors contribute to a ships effectiveness than just max tank/gank stats. These days I could care less what ends up being the best. I can fly everything with equal effectiveness. I just don't like ships sitting around gathering dust because they suck. Originally by: Bellum Eternus Then you're doing it wrong. The new Rattlesnake is a Dominix with 4x missile launchers. Which is way better than a Dominix with 6x gun slots and a hybrid bonus. so basically you say missiles suck, but the snake will be awesome because it has missiles you got me confused. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. No, not really. The main issue I have with the Dominix is that it's guns, regardless of what ends up being fit to it, can't keep up with the performance of max skilled T2 sentry drones (specifically Warden IIs). The advantage I see is the cruise launchers filling in the gaps of the sentry drone performance and being able to reach out to the ship's maximum lock range without a decrease in DPS, unlike the turrets on the Dominix. I think that the Rattlesnake will have a nice complementary effect between the launchers and sentry drones, plus the fact that it will have it's own large drone bay for maximum flexibility when it comes to drone selection. Couple all of the above with a very efficient shield tank that will be able to perma-tank just about any L4 with ease and you end up with a top notch PVE ship. It will be interesting to see if the Rattlesnake is at the top of the pile or if the Navy Domi (DNI? Dominix Navy Issue?) is the best overall performer. I think a damage bonus to launchers would be preferable for me personally on the Rattlesnake over the range bonus, but I think that's what everyone's looking for anyway. Time will tell I guess. I much prefer the insta damage of turrets, don't fire when the killing volley is in the air. also the turrets don't really have to keep up much past 50km, and no they don't keep their max damage at long range but their higher damage at closer ranges is far more valuable then the launchers dps at lock range. there are only a few places where the wardens upper range is needed, and well tbh the flight time on cruise is just meh for that range. just really don't think ~300 launcher dps (with cruise, ignoring torps for pve for now) + 495 drone dps is all that competitive compared to what else you can buy for missions, or pvp (although the launcher config would be slightly different). now with 6 launchers, 5 garde II, 1 sda I, and 4 faction bcus you get with faction cruise launchers + faction missiles 945dps, and with tech2 torps and faction ammo 1299 dps. the torp setup barely out damages a tech 2 fit 3 bcu CNR with 5 HHIIs (1265 dps) I don't think that count as op on the faction ships scale. although it would probably do less in a pvp setup as the SDA uses a lot of calibration, and a good chance to use ogre IIs. maybe even in a torp pve setup as you would still want at least 2 flight time/speed rigs. the way I see it the future under the current proposals looks like Golem>Nightmare/paladin>navy domi>cnr>domi>raven/rattlesnake>navy phoon especially since I don't believe there is a sufficient set of pilots who have the skills to pilot a Rattlesnake who are also willing to do so.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.09.13 08:49:00 - [315] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: fuxinos Isnt that the way you like to discuss? Most of your posts go like: "Your wrong, because I say so". Hes just talking to you on your niveau. No, I tend to bring something to the table (such as fits, ideas, suggestions, etc). Moreover, I try not to blatantly lie and mislead in my posts unlike a certain other person I'm talking to right now. Although I had to wonder if he was your alt. The pettiness and timing of it really reminded me of you. But really, claiming a Raven doesn't have tackle when you perfectly well could have traded the second PWNAGE for it and not materially affected anything. Oh, but the Raven neeeeeds the 2 PWNAGE to deal damage? Funny, so would the Phoon have then (and notably it wouldn't have had tackle then either) - They were both torp boats afterall. And even then you never addressed my original complaint with your "suggestion": just how could you attempt to justify a huge PG nerf to the Phoon? OH WAIT, you couldn't. And then you ran away screaming about how vulgar and disgusting I was.... because I reasonably showed that suggestion to be utter bull****. But you know what? If I am wrong... I'm wrong. That wasn't one of those times, and neither is this. If you still think you're right about it, let's take it back up in the Phoon thread. Your move, bud. -Liang You were the one bringing the suggestion with 5/5, not me. I said it would be a mistake to do it like that. I didnt ran away from a disscussion, I simply stopped myself before posting the way you do, posting in an offending way and turning into a personal fight about who can prevail against the other. Maybe you understand now.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:24:00 - [316] Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 13/09/2009 09:25:47 Originally by: Reiisha "Ashimmu: The underdog story" The epic tale of a little underused, underappreciated and underpowered little cruiser finally making it to the top. THANK YOU! And the Phantasm is capable of tanking aswell as DPS.... I don't think the Ashimmu fills the same niche, it's fine as it is, not to mention that it's much rarer (the Ashimmu that is). Combined with the fact that they don't have T2 stats otherwise they remain a niche product - A little unbalancing isn't all that bad when you consider the Phantasm is still going for only half as much as the Ashimmu, even though that last one has sucked since forever. Forum ate my post: recap. I bought mine rigged for cheap 18 months ago at a mere 60 million, and I am so glad I hung onto it when the price went up like crazy. It's going to be an absolute joy to fly with these changes, so I really can't wait. I can always sell it later, the price isn't going to go down anytime soon with this sort of capability.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:31:00 - [317] Originally by: Manu Hermanus I much prefer the insta damage of turrets, don't fire when the killing volley is in the air. also the turrets don't really have to keep up much past 50km, and no they don't keep their max damage at long range but their higher damage at closer ranges is far more valuable then the launchers dps at lock range. there are only a few places where the wardens upper range is needed, and well tbh the flight time on cruise is just meh for that range. just really don't think ~300 launcher dps (with cruise, ignoring torps for pve for now) + 495 drone dps is all that competitive compared to what else you can buy for missions, or pvp (although the launcher config would be slightly different). now with 6 launchers, 5 garde II, 1 sda I, and 4 faction bcus you get with faction cruise launchers + faction missiles 945dps, and with tech2 torps and faction ammo 1299 dps. the torp setup barely out damages a tech 2 fit 3 bcu CNR with 5 HHIIs (1265 dps) I don't think that count as op on the faction ships scale. although it would probably do less in a pvp setup as the SDA uses a lot of calibration, and a good chance to use ogre IIs. maybe even in a torp pve setup as you would still want at least 2 flight time/speed rigs. the way I see it the future under the current proposals looks like Golem>Nightmare/paladin>navy domi>cnr>domi>raven/rattlesnake>navy phoon especially since I don't believe there is a sufficient set of pilots who have the skills to pilot a Rattlesnake who are also willing to do so. I guess I'm weird then when it comes to PVE hehe. The biggest limitation for me personally is being able to lock enough targets fast enough at long enough range to kill them quickly. I prefer the instant damage of guns as well, but (using the Dominix as an example) by the time you fit enough additional mods to make guns reach the same range as cruise missiles do, you're compromising your fitting quite a bit for tank and stuff, plus you're not doing as much DPS as cruise do at that extended range. AT this point I don't see anything beating a Tach Paladin/Nightmare. They're just too good. But, I really don't want to have to train up Amarr BS5 and T2 large beams on yet another character just to have the ultimate PVE ship when I don't run missions for any other reason other than to fix security status. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Tier 5 Battleships
Plestvarnis	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:32:00 - [318] Vindicator Bonuses: pirate: 25% to large hybrid turret damage, Gallente battleship: +7.5% to large hybrid turrets per level, Minmatar battleship: +10% to velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level This dps bonus is nice i gues for you guys, but thats way too much for you: 5 meds, maybe 2 webs and any victim flying 10m/s gets 14 turret damage and 5 ogres... How much dps is that? ... 1500 or more?... Speaking about sansha ships... Instead of boosting or leaving them where they were, you leave them with less tank... Compared to ashimmu or bhalgorn it lost its worth. Ashimmu gets more dps, its gets perfect web ir nuting. Same about bhalgorn. I dont understand than, what bonuses should get sansha ships to encounter other improved battle ships. Tracking bonus with less tank is really not enought...
Phoenus Caldari Reikoku	Posted - 2009.09.13 09:43:00 - [319] Edited by: Phoenus on 13/09/2009 09:43:21 Speaking as somebody who has flown a Vindicator more times in live combat than well, any other ship (and I'm willing to bet more than most other players) - I'd love to see the Vindicator get an active rep bonus. It doesn't need 1500 (or whatever it will have with those bonuses) DPS. Zomgwtfbbq damage is all good and well, but it'll only lead to people sticking plates on it. I'm not entirely sure why CCP haven't yet realised how boring solo/small gang PVP is when everybody has 40-90k armor. There's very little skill involved in it (what cap management, you have no reps), and it's more a random lottery of 'can I kill it before I fall asleep, or before his 35 friends arrive?'. Plates also need changing, either reducing the amount of Armor they provide, or increasing the fitting requirements. They currently give far too much bonus considering their fitting requirements.
TechnoMag Minmatar Reikoku	Posted - 2009.09.13 10:11:00 - [320] Faction ship >> t2 ship because they r pride and joy of pirate ships (pirate dont have the technology for t2 or what???). This must u have in mind when u design bonus's and stats or u can leave the old faction ships and introduce a new set of T2 faction ships with better stats than t2 ships. Marauders ships have 6 bonuses why not pirate faction ships dont have at least 6 pvp orientated more than carebear : - pirate bonus one bonus 100% dmg for turrets/launcher (and also make all faction bs with 4 slots for turrets/launcher and add 2-4 slots for something else) - 2 primary race bonus - 2 secondary race bonus - special ability : one bonus Also u should play more with design and make this ships special and i propose: Rattlesnake beeing a combination between caldari and gallente make him a better scorp+raven and having bonus on armor tank 8/7/6 slots (low/med/high) 4launchers 100% dmg for cruise+torpedo some bonus for cruise/torpedo + 25% all ewar /per caldari lvl 7.5% resistance armor + 7.5% armor increase /per gallente bonus In the end should be a bs with no shield bonus, ewar bonus better than scorp // raven firepower at least // armor resistance + armor repair ammount from gallente EULA 7. CONDUCT A. 1. You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System.

BarfCo	Posted - 2009.09.13 10:17:00 - [321] Rabble, Rabble, Rabble! Let's throw some poll's in here and let the forum posters choose the new configurations. 3 choices per ship or something and see how many people like it the way CCP wants it. I only fly Minmatar and minmatar related ships so a Bhaalgorn looks pretty good now but seeing the Machariel get nerved is a bit of a let down. With a minor speed boost comes the need for MORE tracking not less. Keep your silly fall-off and also a 7th turrets unbalances the LOOK of the ship it's 6 or 8 not 7 or 5. So keep that too and make it black again. It will be fine ones the ac's and arties get fixed. If however dear Ytterbium you want to make yourself immortal you should consider making the Machariel fly the way it was designed to fly... Look at the Cynabal and the form of that ship. the larger/wider part of the design is the front of the ship. Now look at the Mach and imagine the rear being the front of the ship... suddenly you'll see the extra Engine on top makes sense. It has been flying backwards for ages hasn't it. go ahead ask the original designer from 2002. He'll tell you :P
Plestvarnis	Posted - 2009.09.13 10:35:00 - [322] I got an idea how to boost sansha ships. When i compare other faction ships i can see they got more dps than t1 of their rase. Speaking about nightmare it has the same dps as abaddon (and it needs level 5 bs'es of eatch race) and even less dps than geddon.
kimy jojo	Posted - 2009.09.13 11:11:00 - [323] +1 launcher point on snake pls, as they are not damage or rof bonused
Pesadel0 Minmatar Black Nova Corp	Posted - 2009.09.13 11:18:00 - [324] Bring back the nano mach ...
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.09.13 11:20:00 - [325] Originally by: kimy jojo +1 launcher point on snake pls, as they are not damage or rof bonused Debatable. DPS numbers are between 600-700 with Ogre IIs. Snake trades blunt force for tank sustainability. If you want a blunt offense, check out the new 1300-1500 DPS Vindicator. ___ Latest video: War Has Come (720p)
Flitz Farseeker Gallente Interstellar Stormfront Outcasts Rebellion	Posted - 2009.09.13 11:21:00 - [326] I was gonna whine about the worm losing it's guns until I saw what it got in return. WOOT! And then I spotted the 200% dmg bonus on the Daredevil's guns - yo mama!
Mister Oko	Posted - 2009.09.13 11:35:00 - [327] have you noticed? not a single pirate ship with a missile damage bonus... even the gurista ships have gone full-gallente
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2009.09.13 12:32:00 - [328] Originally by: Kyoko Sakoda Originally by: kimy jojo +1 launcher point on snake pls, as they are not damage or rof bonused Debatable. DPS numbers are between 600-700 with Ogre IIs. Snake trades blunt force for tank sustainability. If you want a blunt offense, check out the new 1300-1500 DPS Vindicator. Naw imo rattler could get even +2 launchers (like domi gets 6 guns). Would need to compromise anyways due to fitting issues with 6x siege t2 (+mwd, injector, xlarge booster etc).
Constantine Merlonne	Posted - 2009.09.13 12:37:00 - [329] A i the only one who thinks that changing the Phantasm from 3100 base shield to 2400 is a little bit too strong ? Ashimmu looks a little bit extreme with 4 turret with 100% bonus, 3 turrets might be enough, with a very little drone bay, for mixing damages like his big brother.
Auracon No Trademark Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.13 12:45:00 - [330] I like the boost to the other faction ships, but I don't see why the sansha shield nerf was needed. After all these are expensive and rare ships, and pilots should be rewarded for flying them in pvp. Hopefully these nerfs won't be in the final version.



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